Sara Lance: The Canary Rises In White

[Lisin]

Though her lip pursing drives me batty I still really like her.

[bravelittletoaster]

I was pretty much sold the moment I saw her doing those flying pull-ups Amell does.  Holy shit.

[TimetoShine]

I'm tired of Sarah. I really feel like we're on Sarah overload. I'm no longer watching live because there is so much of her.

(I feel so much better having said that.)

[Sakura12]

I love Sara and learning her story along with Oliver's. I love seeing Green Arrow and Black Canary fight side by side.

Also I think Caity Lotz actually has superpowers.

[JayKay]

I love Sara, too. I don't know if I would have stuck around during the episodes that stunk up the joint this season if it weren't for that little extra bad-ass quotient that Sara adds. And Caity Lotz has set a standard that for better or worse I'm going to be comparing female action heroes to for years to come.

[Danny Franks]

I do like Sara, and one of the things I've enjoyed most about her is seeing those flashes of darkness in the flashback scenes.

She played Lady MacBeth for Oliver in the whole 'Shado's death' cover-up. Encouraging him to lie to Slade, and then convincing him to kill Ivo before Slade could get to him. Not that Oliver managed to follow through on that, sadly. If he had, then so many things would be so different.

Anyway, I'm pleased that they've been willing to give Sara that darkness and that moral ambiguity, even before she became an assassin. It adds layers to her character that aren't immediately evident when you see her being so agreeable and supportive with Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and even Laurel, in present day Starling City.

Also, Caity Lotz looks amazing, and every inch the hardened crimefighter. Replacing her as Black Canary would be an utterly insane, stupid move. One I'm still convinced is going to happen.

[BkWurm1]

The pursing of the lips thing was very much on display in the Birds of Prey episode. There was this one scene where Canary is trying to talk Laurel out of drinking and they are like twelve inches apart and all I could think was how could Laurel not notice the lips!

I generally like Sara but I do feel like her character is just a little too much everywhere right now. Hoping that will change soon.

[Sakura12]

I love Shady IslandSara, she was already in her "I am what I need to be and do what I need to do" state. We didn't get to see her whole year on the Amazo but I imagine she was much less whiny than first year IslandOliver. Especially since her choices were go back in a cage with the pirates that wanted to rape her or help the mad scientist experiment on people. 

[bravelittletoaster]

Also, Caity Lotz looks amazing, and every inch the hardened crimefighter. Replacing her as Black Canary would be an utterly insane, stupid move. One I'm still convinced is going to happen.

oh, no, seriously?  I'm unspoiled so I don't know what's afoot, but I hope that's not the case.  I tear through a lot of tv I'm lukewarm on because I watch something every day on Hulu at the gym, but my investment in Arrow has gone up about 300% since they brought her on board, so I hope she sticks around.

 

ETA: Full disclosure: I like hot blondes with rockin' bodies.  I'm really complicated and deep that way.

Edited March 29, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[pootlus]

oh, no, seriously?  I'm unspoiled so I don't know what's afoot, but I hope that's not the case.  I tear through a lot of tv I'm lukewarm on because I watch something every day on Hulu at the gym, but my investment in Arrow has gone up about 300% since they brought her on board, so I hope she sticks around.

I think it's merely speculation at this stage given the enthusiasm Guggenheim seems to have for Laurel/Katie Cassidy-as-Black-Canary.

I'm certainly in agreeance that it would be insanity to replace a physically capable actress like Caity Lotz.

I note that Caity's film 'The Machine' is out on DVD/Blu-Ray soon (at least here in Oz). IMDB has decidedly mixed reviews, but I'm always up for watching Caity kick butt - has anyone seen it and can give me a 'worth spending twenty bucks on' review?

[Zalyn]

I think it's merely speculation at this stage given the enthusiasm Guggenheim seems to have for Laurel/Katie Cassidy-as-Black-Canary.

There's also the problem of comics-canon, which has (Dinah) Laurel Lance as the Black Canary.  This is part of why I'm so interested in how this show shapes up: the tension between the comic-canon and practicalities of the TV show (both in terms of newer audience and actor capability) means that many fans will expect things to turn out a certain way, but they very well might not for valid reasons. 

I have mixed feelings about liking Sara so much; she has clearly matured a great deal and has a great deal in common with Oliver.  And Caity is amazing; seeing an actress able to do the heavy physical work she does (Salmon Ladder FTW) is somethign we definitely need more of on TV!  But she participated in Oliver's cheating on Laurel...

In a flashback from "Heir to the Demon"

when Sara and Laurel were talking shortly before Sara snuck onto the yacht, it seemed like Sara was more realistic about who Oliver was while Laurel relied on an overly idealized fairy tale Prince Charming and marriage idea.

  So I wonder if Sara was a troublemaker because she saw the world more as it was while Laurel sees it how she wants it to be.  Hmm... the realist and the idealist...

Given all this, I'm not sure how they can pry Sara away from Starling City (and Oliver) if they don't want to make her a regular.  I'm afraid that they'll have to in order to keep narrative tension going because she's just too badass!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I initially liked Sara before the Christmas break.  I don't dislike her now, but I guess that I have come to resent the fact that she seems to be everywhere now...in the flashbacks, in the Arrow cave, in Oliver's bed.  I was happy with the dynamic that we had with original Team Arrow, and I had even accepted the fact that Roy would eventually be added to the team.  As I have never read comics, I guess I just wasn't expecting for Black Canary to become such a focused part of the show.  Green Arrow comic fans are probably laughing at me right now, I know.

I haven't even bothered to watch the Birds of Prey episode yet since I know that it is Sara and Laurel heavy.  Sara is great as Canary, but I'm kind of hoping that she leaves at the end of this season and shows up occasionally in season 3.  I'm bothered by the fact that she seems to have more screen time than characters who have been around since season 1.  Poor Roy joins Team Arrow and disappears for like three of the five next episodes! 

[thuganomics85]

I still like Sara, but I do think she's been used a bit too much lately, which is an issue, since I think some of the characters suffering because of it are my two favorites (Diggle and Felicity.)  I do find her an interesting character, and no matter what direction they go, I'll always consider her the real "Canary" (if this show is destined to stick with canon and have Laurel take over.)  But I hope they find a way to work her into the cast better and I definitely hope she doesn't stick around just to be Ollie's sidekick/girlfriend.  I'd like to see them form relationships between her and other characters.  I really want to see more Sara/Felicity stuff, Sara/Diggle could be cool too, and, for some reason, I think Sara/Thea could be fun.

She isn't perfect though.  I still chuckle over how she gave Ollie shit about Helena, and thinking "To be fair, Sara, it's not like Nyssa was exactly a stable ex."  If anything, Ollie and Sara kind of could bond over how crazy their ex-girlfriends were (or, the flip-side of the coin!  I would pay to see Nyssa and Helena compare notes...)

No matter what though, I do think Caity Lotz is all kinds of awesome.  She really seems like a complete badass, and I can buy her in the role easily.  It helps that I think she's sexy as hell (but I'm still Team Felicity in that department!)

Edited March 30, 2014 by thuganomics85

[SonofaBiscuit]

I really want to see more Sara/Felicity stuff, Sara/Diggle could be cool too, and, for some reason, I think Sara/Thea could be fun.

 

You know, it's funny.  At the beginning of this season, I thought that maybe they were going to go the romantic route with Sara and Diggle.  There was nothing shown on-screen to make me believe this, but I just thought that they would differentiate themselves from the comics a bit by doing that.  I thought we would have a Diggle/Sara pairing as well as a Felicity/Oliver pairing by the end of the season.  Guess I was way off base, but I would have rather had that happen than what we have ended up with.

[bravelittletoaster]

I do find her an interesting character, and no matter what direction they go, I'll always consider her the real "Canary" (if this show is destined to stick with canon and have Laurel take over.)

I'm not familiar with the comic book canon, but it's pretty impossible for me to picture the actress who plays Laurel somehow turning into some ass-kicking badass.  Whereas Lotz has that covered.  In spades.  But, you know, go with God, show.  I just hope they don't ditch Lotz entirely because she's definitely ratcheted up my interest in this show in delightful ways.  I agree that I'd like to see her better integrated with the group, though, and not just an extension of Ollie.  I like her brief interactions so far with Felicity and Diggle and would like to see more of that.  And they could do more with the fact that she has that mentor relationship with Roy's sidekick [name escaping me].  I kind of felt like they cleared up the nature of their pairing in case we were wondering so I assume they'll do more with it.  I haven't had a chance to watch this week's ep yet, so I don't know if it's revisited there.

[Grammaeryn]

I think my enjoyment levels of Sara are inverse to my feelings about Laurel.  The more Laurel is whiny and boring, the more I like Sara.  Caity can be a bit stilted and awkward acting-wise but hey not everyone can be Manu with the acting plus action.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree that the sudden, heavy focus on Sara has made my enthusiasm for her wane a little. I also find it difficult to see her encouraging Oliver's Hood side instead of his Arrow side. We don't need to go back down that route. I do find it sort of interesting that Sara is further behind on her journey toward becoming a hero than Oliver is, but I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that. He's not a good mentor yet, as he admitted regarding Helena, and as he proved regarding Roy in this episode. I think at this stage (barring the show killing her off!), that is what will drive them apart. Just not agreeing on how to live their lives and help people, etc.

Personally, my ideal scenario would be that Sara IS the Black Canary on this show, and Laurel becomes a villain. Then Sara leaves Starling to go be a vigilante elsewhere, but returns regularly, or she and Oliver are both vigilantes in Starling, but operate independently. That's what I'm looking for. What I'm not looking for is a show called Arrow & Canary. Not interested in Lance drama taking over the entire show.

[Kromm]

Though her lip pursing drives me batty I still really like her.

They're really nice lips.

[Zalyn]

Oh!  I just remembered that I would also like to see her relationship with Sin used more too.  The backstory of how they ended up together was great, and it would also be a good way to strengthen Sara's connections to Roy and Thea too (especially regarding the recent turn - I could totally see Sara and Thea having a nice conversation).

[bravelittletoaster]

 

I do find it sort of interesting that Sara is further behind on her journey toward becoming a hero than Oliver is, but I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that.

ITA.  Pair her up with a woman.

/biased lesbian viewer

[calliope1975]

I wanted Sara to be paired with a woman as well. I'd really like Nyssa to come back and explore that relationship more. Every woman on the show does not need to hook up with Oliver. (Even if they did so in the past.)

[Zalyn]

I was pleasantly surprised to see how normally they portrayed Sara's relationship with Nyssa (ie: not sensational or "hawt!Lesbian Action for dudes"); her dad's reaction was great as well.  Things have come a long way from Willow/Tara. 

[JayKay]

Quentin's reaction was heartwarming without being saccharine. Just the right note, I thought. And I loved how in "Birds of Prey" we got to see Sara using the ribbon entrance, since we know she learned it from Nyssa and the League. The little continuity bits that the stunt-team manages to toss in there are great.

[Kromm]

I agree that the sudden, heavy focus on Sara has made my enthusiasm for her wane a little. I

Heh.  I think its almost kind of a Pavlovian automatic responses (that show runners should have learned about by now) that some viewers will process tons of additional focus like this.  I don't speak as judge, but as a fellow participant, because while I don't feel that way about Sara, I did definitely get that way about Felicity, when some inner feeling told me she'd crossed some invisible line from being a neat side story to a semi-protagonist.  

[statsgirl]

I agree that the sudden, heavy focus on Sara has made my enthusiasm for her wane a little. I also find it difficult to see her encouraging Oliver's Hood side instead of his Arrow side. We don't need to go back down that route. I do find it sort of interesting that Sara is further behind on her journey toward becoming a hero than Oliver is, but I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that. He's not a good mentor yet, as he admitted regarding Helena, and as he proved regarding Roy in this episode. I think at this stage (barring the show killing her off!), that is what will drive them apart. Just not agreeing on how to live their lives and help people, etc.

Personally, my ideal scenario would be that Sara IS the Black Canary on this show, and Laurel becomes a villain. Then Sara leaves Starling to go be a vigilante elsewhere, but returns regularly, or she and Oliver are both vigilantes in Starling, but operate independently. That's what I'm looking for. What I'm not looking for is a show called Arrow & Canary. Not interested in Lance drama taking over the entire show.

When you wrote "I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that", I thought of AA and how you need to be wary of being in a relationship with another addict.  Maybe their need to be a vigilante, for Oliver to right the wrong's of his parents and save the city, and for Sara to protect vulnerable women, is a form of addiction.

I think Sara/Caity Lotz was another stroke of serendipity for them.  She's like a strong spice which can make the food taste better but too much can also overwhelm the dish. I like your scenario of Sara and Oliver operating independently and occasionally teaming up.   Laurel would be good on the villain side but I fear Marc Guggenheim loves her too much to turn her dar,

[Zalyn]

When you wrote "I don't think he's at the point where he should be in a relationship with someone like that", I thought of AA and how you need to be wary of being in a relationship with another addict.  Maybe their need to be a vigilante, for Oliver to right the wrong's of his parents and save the city, and for Sara to protect vulnerable women, is a form of addiction.

Good comparison!  I think Oliver and Sara are a good "crisis couple" - when they have something to work against (Laurel, Ivo, Slade), they are great. But they do have that addiction to having a mission that does need to be resolved.  The Veronica Mars movie explicitly compared solving crimes to an addiction, and that also threw some challenges in to the possibility of a stable relationship.

That said, I'd love to see more of Sara advocating for women; her "no woman should live in fear" statement was great (and Buffyesque in all the good ways). Maybe instead of being a bartender, she should start a women's self-defense school! 

[bravelittletoaster]

My God, your Buffy comparison just made me realize why I have this thing for ass-kicking blondes.  I imprinted at an early age.

[Sakura12]

I think it's merely speculation at this stage given the enthusiasm Guggenheim seems to have for Laurel/Katie Cassidy-as-Black-Canary.

I'm certainly in agreeance that it would be insanity to replace a physically capable actress like Caity Lotz.

I note that Caity's film 'The Machine' is out on DVD/Blu-Ray soon (at least here in Oz). IMDB has decidedly mixed reviews, but I'm always up for watching Caity kick butt - has anyone seen it and can give me a 'worth spending twenty bucks on' review?

I want to check The Machine out too. It doesn't come out until next month over here, so I don't know if it's any good. She did do all her own stunts and put on quite a bit of muscle for the role. 

I do kind of wish they had kept Oliver and Sara single. Laurel still could've noticed that Oliver and Sara are super close despite the fact that he told everyone she was dead and to her knowledge has only been back a few days. They could've had Laurel be mad that they both lied about Sara being dead. That's a legit reason to be mad at them about. But then again they probably had no other ideas or wanted to think of other ideas how to end Laurel's drug "arc".

I also think it would've been funny if Sara flirted a little with Felicity with her being clueless about Sara being into women as well. Felicity's reaction to finding that out probably would've been priceless. Because I did love Quentin's reaction to Sara coming out as Bi or whatever they want to call it.

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, Sara has been operating independently since leaving the League of Assassins (and even then, was probably working solo for the most part). I'm not sure she will take well to having Oliver in charge, or even a democratic situation. We've already seen her chafing at that. I'd rather have her working on her own, and working with Oliver when that makes sense (like right now with Slade threatening both of them and their loved ones).

[Danny Franks]

I wanted Sara to be paired with a woman as well. I'd really like Nyssa to come back and explore that relationship more. Every woman on the show does not need to hook up with Oliver. (Even if they did so in the past.)

I'd like that as well. Nyssa was far too interesting and badass to be a one episode wonder, and the relationship with Sara was sketched too lightly for me to be satisfied that the writers just ended it with, 'yeah, I don't love you any more'.

I don't know why Sara doesn't love Nyssa any more, and I don't know why they fell in love in the first place. All I know is, the writers seemed to want to end it so they could pair Sara up with Oliver, in what I felt was an ill-timed, badly executed reconciliation. Was Sara with Nyssa only to titillate viewers with the thought of hot, girl-on-girl action? Pretty depressing, if so. 

There was no reason that I could see for Oliver and Sara to get together again. Narratively speaking. They could still have the same loyalty and love for one another as platonic friends, they could still stoke Laurel's jealous (which has disappeared now, along with her alcoholism) by hinting at a deep friendship that Laurel doesn't know about, and the shared experiences they've had. But instead, the power of Oliver's penis won the day, as usual.

[Kromm]

I'd like that as well. Nyssa was far too interesting and badass to be a one episode wonder, and the relationship with Sara was sketched too lightly for me to be satisfied that the writers just ended it with, 'yeah, I don't love you any more'.

I don't know why Sara doesn't love Nyssa any more, and I don't know why they fell in love in the first place. All I know is, the writers seemed to want to end it so they could pair Sara up with Oliver, in what I felt was an ill-timed, badly executed reconciliation. Was Sara with Nyssa only to titillate viewers with the thought of hot, girl-on-girl action? Pretty depressing, if so. 

I agree they didn't let us know enough about how the relationship started, but given the structure of the show it's a pretty good guess that its a reveal planned for the future, because the show has been very clear that the flashback reveals are in chronological order and they don't skip around--other than a brief dip to get Sara's own set of flashbacks established and bring her past timeline in sync with Ollie's.

As far as why they fell OUT of love, that too is probably yet to be shown, but unlike the beginning of their affair, I think the reasons for the breakup were made pretty clear to us--being with Nyssa meant having to murder people regularly and there was likely an element (on Nyssa's side) of having to choose between her father and Sara, and until the episode we saw where she "let Sara go", the choice had always been her father.

[Danny Franks]

I agree they didn't let us know enough about how the relationship started, but given the structure of the show it's a pretty good guess that its a reveal planned for the future, because the show has been very clear that the flashback reveals are in chronological order and they don't skip around--other than a brief dip to get Sara's own set of flashbacks established and bring her past timeline in sync with Ollie's.

As far as why they fell OUT of love, that too is probably yet to be shown, but unlike the beginning of their affair, I think the reasons for the breakup were made pretty clear to us--being with Nyssa meant having to murder people regularly and there was likely an element (on Nyssa's side) of having to choose between her father and Sara, and until the episode we saw where she "let Sara go", the choice had always been her father.

But I don't think any of that explains why Sara doesn't love Nyssa any more. To me, the distinction between hating what she had become and her feelings for Nyssa were established in the episode, and they were approached separately. I didn't think that one necessarily forced the other. Sara could still love Nyssa despite the things she's done, as many people love despite their partner doing terrible things. She just... didn't. Which was handy for Oliver, because it meant he could get his end away.

[bravelittletoaster]

It feels like a while ago that that episode aired, so I don't remember the details, but I didn't have the impression that Sara and Nyssa had been involved super recently.  Like, I thought there was a lot of history there, but they weren't still currently involved with each other were they?  I assumed we didn't spend a lot of time on the end of their whatever it was because it was already over when we were introduced to it.  I mean obviously there were still feelings there but I didn't get that they were together in any pedestrian sense anymore when they brought their baggage to Starling City.

Or did I completely misunderstand that?

[quarks]

What I find odd about the Sara/Oliver relationship is that you could remove it completely, and barely affect the plot at all except in how it affected Laurel and, I guess, led to Laurel giving up her short lived drinking issue. (Which I would have liked her to face and get over for better reasons than "ooh, my ex-boyfriend and my sister are banging! I better get over this alcohol thing, quickly!)

Keep Sara/Oliver as platonic, and everything else pretty much plays out the same way: Felicity still worries about her place on the team; Oliver still throws a party and stays on bad terms with his mother; Slade and Oliver still have their facedown;Sara still leads Roy and Diggle to Oliver's rescue there; Sara still throws someone out a window; Sara and Oliver still argue over how to handle the Huntress and Sara still calls him out for being a complete hypocrite; Laurel, not Oliver, is still the one who keeps Sara from killing the Huntress. Slade still wants Sara dead.  And so on.  Add to this that the relationship has been handled on a relatively platonic level - a few light kisses and one shot of them in bed since their original hookup - and I'm kinda wondering, why bother?  Was it really that important to kill the Laurel/Oliver ship and stall Felicity/Oliver with this?    

All that said, I found their interactions in the last episode pretty fascinating; Sara continues to provide a pragmatic, realistic approach, which is fun to watch next to the context of someone who at least claims to be trying. And since Nyssa's not dead, I haven't given up hopes of seeing how that relationship might continue to play out, even if right now it's redefining dysfunctional. (Protip, Nyssa: kidnapping your beloved's mother rarely turns out to be a romantic as it sounds.)

[Danny Franks]

It feels like a while ago that that episode aired, so I don't remember the details, but I didn't have the impression that Sara and Nyssa had been involved super recently.  Like, I thought there was a lot of history there, but they weren't still currently involved with each other were they?  I assumed we didn't spend a lot of time on the end of their whatever it was because it was already over when we were introduced to it.  I mean obviously there were still feelings there but I didn't get that they were together in any pedestrian sense anymore when they brought their baggage to Starling City.

Or did I completely misunderstand that?

The impression I got was that they'd been together right up until Sara ran off in the middle of the night to check up on her family (though I doubt it was a stable, settled relationship where they spent a lot of time together). And Nyssa had no clue where she'd gone, or why, and felt betrayed. Then Sara just said she didn't love her any more, with no further explanation, which seemed to sting a tad. My understanding was that Nyssa still loved Sara, and was under the impression Sara still loved her.

It felt to me like a cheap way of the writers saying, 'yep, she's free for Oliver now'.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Kromm]

But I don't think any of that explains why Sara doesn't love Nyssa any more. To me, the distinction between hating what she had become and her feelings for Nyssa were established in the episode, and they were approached separately. I didn't think that one necessarily forced the other. Sara could still love Nyssa despite the things she's done, as many people love despite their partner doing terrible things. She just... didn't. Which was handy for Oliver, because it meant he could get his end away.

Firstly, it's a big assumption she doesn't love Nyssa anymore.  Even if she said it, why do we necessarily have to believe it?

Arguably we could even use similar logic though for her ever having loved Nyssa at all.  We're only being told she ever did.  We know they had hot hot sexy time, and that the words were clearly passed between them, but we also know Sara was where she was under duress, and that never really assures honest feelings being expressed.

All that said... if all the love stuff is on the level, don't you think that someone helping to make you do something you loathe--not choosing you over a repressive force that's the author of your agony--is a clear love killer?  You're putting this in terms of what Sara "became" and hating that vs. her feelings for Nyssa, but I don't think it's that clear cut.  Feelings aren't that conveniently compartmentalized.  Ergo, Sara could be lying about any number of things on the emotional front, or she could just be fooling herself, or even a combination of both.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Kromm

[Sakura12]

While Sara did use the past tense with loved, she never specifically said she fell out of love with Nyssa. When Nyssa said not anymore, Sara didn't reply. So they can go with Sara still loving Nyssa. But I think it's more being with Nyssa meant being an assassin and she couldn't do that anymore.

With Nyssa hopefully coming back we'll get to see more of their relationship. I also would want to see some flashbacks to Nanda Parbat and see them when they were together.

[Danny Franks]

Firstly, it's a big assumption she doesn't love Nyssa anymore.  Even if she said it, why do we necessarily have to believe it?

Arguably we could even use similar logic though for her ever having loved Nyssa at all.  We're only being told she ever did.  We know they had hot hot sexy time, and that the words were clearly passed between them, but we also know Sara was where she was under duress, and that never really assures honest feelings being expressed.

All that said... if all the love stuff is on the level, don't you think that someone helping to make you do something you loathe--not choosing you over a repressive force that's the author of your agony--is a clear love killer?  You're putting this in terms of what Sara "became" and hating that vs. her feelings for Nyssa, but I don't think it's that clear cut.  Feelings aren't that conveniently compartmentalized.  Ergo, Sara could be lying about any number of things on the emotional front, or she could just be fooling herself, or even a combination of both.

It's no bigger an assumption than assuming she's lying, if you ask me.

As to whether it's a love killer? Theoretically yes, but there are plenty of people in this world who love, despite valid reasons they shouldn't. I'm not compartmentalising anything, because I said in my post that I don't see why Nyssa's day job, or attitude to said job, should necessarily alter Sara's feelings for her. The two things could be linked, or they could be separate. The approach the show took suggested to me that it was, a direct causation. That Sara's hatred of being an assassin led her to fall out of love with Nyssa, and I find that less than completely credible. They gave no other reasons for it.

Until more is said, there is little choice, as far as I'm concerned, but to take the episode at face value. Sara told her father that she had loved Nyssa. Is that the truth? I don't see any reason why not. She then would not answer when Nyssa asked if she still loved her. Does that mean she does, and Nyssa got the wrong end of the stick? Possibly. But given everything else that happened in that episode and since, I see little reason to read that into it.

And until this is further developed, it goes on my (increasingly) long list of storylines this show has breezed through, barely scratching the surface.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Kromm]

It's no bigger an assumption than assuming she's lying, if you ask me..

The difference is that I'm not assuming she's lying--just bringing it up as a possibility. That was part of the point I was trying to make--that we can't make a call as definite as "Sara doesn't love Nyssa any more", because we haven't really been privileged to hear what's really in her mind about it (or make the leap that was being made that the show was treating this too lightly by tossing her into bed with Ollie).

[Sakura12]

We don't know if the reason Sara fell out of love with Nyssa was because of the killing. The killing is why she left the League. Nyssa is a part of the League, an important part, she's the heir.  Being with Nyssa meant being a killer. So for me they showed it was the killing that she couldn't do anymore no matter who was there waiting for her.

She still kissed Nyssa when she showed up with a knife to kill her and the most important part to me is she gave Nyssa the option to kill her so she could honor her father's wishes. That showed me there was still some feelings of love for Nyssa.

[BkWurm1]

I think for Sara it was a case of still loved Nyssa but was no longer in love with Nyssa and that she changed her mind because of the killing. She couldn't go back to that life and all it entailed.

[CabotCove]

I wanted Sara to be paired with a woman as well. I'd really like Nyssa to come back and explore that relationship more. Every woman on the show does not need to hook up with Oliver. (Even if they did so in the past.)

 

But it doesnt have to be just an woman IMO. Nyssa tried to kill Sara and her entire family. She was willing to see Sara die, had it not have been for Oliver she would probably  have been dead. No, every woman on the show does not need to hook up with Oliver but I would rather have a woman hook up with Oliver than a killer who was willing to let you and your entire family die. Sara is not perfect either but Im not sure there is a way to come back from what Nyssa did to her and her family. I dont doubt she loved Nyssa and there is a possiblity she still does but Im not for them getting back ever again. If they want to show more queer relationships, i would rather it be some other female character who isn't Nyssa except for Flashbacks. This show has done weird things so Im not naive to think they wouldnt probably brush all this under the rag. 

 

I haven't even bothered to watch the Birds of Prey episode yet since I know that it is Sara and Laurel heavy.  Sara is great as Canary, but I'm kind of hoping that she leaves at the end of this season and shows up occasionally in season 3.  I'm bothered by the fact that she seems to have more screen time than characters who have been around since season 1.  Poor Roy joins Team Arrow and disappears for like three of the five next episodes!

 

Felicity got more screentime in season 1 than characters who had been there from the beginning (pilot), and Roy  after he joined in the second half has become more important than some of the characters who were there since the beginning. Slade probably gets more screentime than Thea and Moira do this season. We have laurel who was supposed to be second billed and a leading lady but is barely an entity for a while now. So really I dont feel that being an original character means you will always be an important major character or that if you join midway you can't be. If characters like Roy and felicity who werent part of the original cast can have more screentime then Im not seeing why its so bad for Sara to. I think demotions and promotions are just part of a show's evolution Imo during its run imo. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by Conell

[BkWurm1]

I think I would be happier about Sara's increased screen time if it did not lead to increased Laurel screen time.

[MarDelSol]

I guess I'm the opposite of most you guys. Sara's actress is distractingly bad (standing out in a show with plenty of bad acting) and her character feels like a female carbon copy of Oliver from last season. I dread them upping her to a regular next season, even though she's already getting way more focus and time than half the regulars on the show.

And yeah, her face seems to have two modes: an almost Blue Steel-like look and then leaving her mouth open the other half of the time. It's pretty annoying.

[CabotCove]

If hypothetically, Sara becomes a regular, I dont think nor need her to be in every episode or be focused heavily. Yeah I do think Felicity will likely continue to be the female lead (practically speaking, it hasnt been Laurel in a long time tbh), which is fine with me I just need Sara to be alive and have her story explored. Dont need her to be "second in command" or whatever. I do not see her current screentime as permanent or long term, its just necessary for this season IMO. Whether thats means she will be here next season or not, I dont know. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by Conell

[BkWurm1]

her character feels like a female carbon copy of Oliver from last season. I

 

I can see that. 

her face seems to have two modes: an almost Blue Steel-like look and then leaving her mouth open the other half of the time. It's pretty annoying.

 

I remember thinking Oliver was pretty expressionless last year and questioned if SA had any acting skills but I've seen them since and have come around to thinking the expressionless, steely gaze is a deliberate acting choice.  Oliver has softened a little and is now more freely showing his emotions but I feel like Sara might still be at that stage where she doesn't emote too much.

That said, I don't find her that bad as an actress.  She says a lot with her eyes.  Of course I don't find Colton bad either.  I do cringe half the time KC is speaking, so you know, I'm not totally clueless, lol. 

[Morrigan2575]

her character feels like a female carbon copy of Oliver from last season.

I want to say I read an interview one of the producers gave where they made the same statement, she is a female version of Oliver (by design).

[bravelittletoaster]

I want to say I read an interview one of the producers gave where they made the same statement, she is a female version of Oliver (by design).

I kind of got that when our introduction to her was doing Ollie's "salmon ladder" [as someone called it upthread] right off the bat.  I think from that moment on I was more or less in love, so I guess that worked for me.

[BkWurm1]

"salmon ladder"

 

I've heard and used this term for months and only just this second finally understood it.  Duh!  It's like the fish trying to swim upstream!  Now it makes sense.  I misread it as a Salomon ladder for such a long time that I had convinced myself it was some kind of left over religious torture device from the days of the inquisition, lol.   

[MarDelSol]

I kind of got that when our introduction to her was doing Ollie's "salmon ladder" [as someone called it upthread] right off the bat.  I think from that moment on I was more or less in love, so I guess that worked for me.

I can see why people like that. It just does the opposite for me. She feels so superfluous next to the titular character. I eyerolled at those mirror salmon ladder/wooden dummy training scenes. The whole point of them was like, "Hey, look at Female Oliver doing Oliver things. Isn't that cool?"

Edited April 3, 2014 by MarDelSol