S09.E05: What Comes After

[Butless]

7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

I don't know. Collecting A's would be more trouble than it's worth. I mean, if you've already captured a bunch of B's, just catch a zombie and have it bite them. Gives you better data for experiments, since you know exactly when they were bitten, plus there's no risk of them dying and turning in the helicopter.

I think it means leaders and followers. Which means you'd think she'd tell them that Rick was an A, but she doesn't want him running around in the field coming back to his people. She's hoping to get a spinoff show called "Trashy and Grimey."

And... I think I just now truly understand this week's title. "What Comes After?" "I lie with him."

They have more chemistry than Richonne. Michonne was too good for him. He needs someone bossy, not adoring.

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, LadyMustang65 said:

To us it looked like Rick had fallen into the river along with the herd and had been swept downstream before pulling himself out (or washing up) on the bank.  So we assumed Jadis was far enough away from the rest, as she didn't really seem to know what was up with all the zombie parts flowing past her in the river, that she wasn't aware of the bridge blowing up, and they couldn't see or hear the helicopter.

As she was looking at the plume of smoke over yonder, Jadis heard over the walkie talkie that Rick has blown up the bridge. 

There's no way not to see and hear a helicopter. From where she was standing and looking at the smoke, she turned around and heard and spotted her helicopter. Folks over yonder would have heard and seen that mechanical bird too.

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

As she was looking at the plume of smoke over yonder, Jadis heard over the walkie talkie that Rick has blown up the bridge. 

There's no way not to see and hear a helicopter. From where she was standing and looking at the smoke, she turned around and heard and spotted her helicopter. Folks over yonder would have heard and seen that mechanical bird too.

Maybe the CDB crew was deaf after having had their ears concussed by several cases of exploding dynamite taking out a bridge a few seconds earlier...?

Of course, the helicopter may have been one of those black ones - they’re not very loud.  ;>

[Iguessnot]

12 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Maybe the CDB crew was deaf after having had their ears concussed by several cases of exploding dynamite taking out a bridge a few seconds earlier...?

Of course, the helicopter may have been one of those black ones - they’re not very loud.  ;>

They really should have made it a sci-fi stealth space ship. Would have made more sense though equally unbelievable.

[iMonrey]

The river they were all near was raging pretty hard, so I'm willing to buy that it drowned out the sound of a distant helicopter, assuming it approached from the opposite direction and returned there. Which it seemed to do.

But I really don't understand the "grand sacrifice" Rick was trying to make or what the point was of blowing up the bridge. Was it simply to prevent the walkers from getting to the other side because that's where all the communities are located? Weren't they always going to have this problem once the bridge was completed? I don't understand.

I approve of the time jump and Rick's not-death but honestly, anyone who had lost that much blood would have died way before they got anywhere near that bridge.

The next three episodes will determine whether or not I come back for Season 9 Part B, and that's three more episodes than I thought I would watch beyond Rick's exit. So they did a marginally good job keeping me interested, I'll give them that.

[peach]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't see why Rick couldn't have backed up a few yards and fired the shot to ignite the TNT from outside the blast zone.  

The show has become completely ridiculous.

I think in this case, he was sure he was dying anyway from his injury.  So might as well go up in a ball of fire than turn or be shot in the head. 

[WalkerTalker]

19 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Get back in your cell, FFS, is that it? After all that buildup, get back in your cell...........

I thought for sure he was going to rear up and knock the carp out of her. I like Maggie, but she really thought she was going to go man-o-mano with Negan. She is getting a little too big for her britches. They must be setting up her up for her demise. Taking on task that are out of her league. She is lucky he didn't fight back. I think the worse thing she could have done to him is bring Lucille in and burn it in front of him. 

[WalkerTalker]

2 hours ago, Butless said:

They have more chemistry than Richonne. Michonne was too good for him. He needs someone bossy, not adoring.

After Jadis telling the heli guy Rick is a B, I thought A meant after a bite, and B meant before a bite. 

[heisenberg]

18 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

In other news we actually got an answer. Rick is a "B". So, now the question is B = Male or Human? A = Female or Walker?

Are they trying to repopulate the earth and seeking out strong male/females?  Are they looking for test subjects Human/Walkers? Or maybe B = Warrior/Soldier and A = Scholar/Leader?

I wonder if it could be simplier than that, like: 

A = Volunteer 

B = Not volunteer

Father peepants could have been an "A",  he said no to Jadis and than he was a "B" ?

[LadyMustang65]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

As she was looking at the plume of smoke over yonder, Jadis heard over the walkie talkie that Rick has blown up the bridge. 

There's no way not to see and hear a helicopter. From where she was standing and looking at the smoke, she turned around and heard and spotted her helicopter. Folks over yonder would have heard and seen that mechanical bird too.

I respectfully disagree.  First, from the way that water was running in the river, it would have been pretty loud.  Second, helicopters aren't that loud when they're further away.  When they're right over you or in relatively close range, yes.  They're wicked loud.  But at a distance, not so much.  Third, the folks at the bridge would have to have spotted the helicopter when it was well up in the air in order to be seen through all those trees.  Once it started to descend, it would have been pretty well shielded from sight.  Fourth, I'm pretty sure the folks at the bridge had their minds and emotions well occupied with having just watched Rick die (or so they thought).  You've got Michonne screaming and crying, Maggie and Carol trying to hold her back, Darryl had to turn his back.  Fifth, there's the sound of the fire itself that was still raging on the bridge.  Fires are loud up close.  (Oh, and the smoke would have helped obscure the helicopter.)  And sixth, while I don't remember the scene that vividly, going by your description, the helicopter was coming in on the other side of Jadis, so not coming in from the bridge side.  Jadis can see the smoke but not the bridge, so again unless they spotted it when it was high in the air, the people at the bridge probably would not have been able to see the helicopter.  So that part didn't seem all that far-fetched to me.  

35 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

I wonder if it could be simplier than that, like: 

A = Volunteer 

B = Not volunteer

Father peepants could have been an "A",  he said no to Jadis and than he was a "B" ?

Except she first said he was a B and then changed that to an A.  He certainly wasn't volunteering for anything. We really just don't have enough information to go on to know what that was all about, and I'm guessing we'll never know, and that's annoying.  They shouldn't throw in something like that if they didn't plan to explain it.

[watch2much]

the scenes with Shane and Herchel were wonderful.  reminded me of why I was so addicted to this show.  Will give the rest of the season a chance, but have my doubts (although Grey's Anatomy has reinvented itself with new characters and is still on).

[Mu Shu]

10 hours ago, wait.what said:

Didn’t rick have a machine gun and was unable to hit Negan from across the street?

but now with 1/2 his blood drained from his body, hallucinating, weak, he can hit a a few sticks of dynamite with his pistol? 

How about him half lying on the ground with what sounds like a punctured lung, getting headshots, with a handgun?

[hoosiermommy]

The helicopter was as manufactured by the same people who brought us Glen’s dumpster.  “Keeping dead people alive!”

Edited November 6, 2018 by hoosiermommy

[Colorado David]

still watching, but hey, if I'm riding a horse that doesn't know enough to run away from a walker mob 25 feet, I'm kicking the horse in the ribs until we at least get a run and 100+ feet distance. 1 - horses aren't stupid, i would think by now they recog walkers as carnivorous prey, and 2 - it does not take much effort even if gutshot to kick a horse in the ribs when you're riding it. and NO i am not anti-horse, I friggin love horses...but they can be prodded that way and it doesn't hurt em, and in this case may even save the damn thing from being eaten. this constant OH OH OH walkers 20 feet way is stupid melodrama played up against no reason so rickcenterofattention gets his dopey flashbacks in. eta: gimplitis syndrome

Edited November 6, 2018 by Colorado David

[Kdawg82]

21 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

In other news we actually got an answer. Rick is a "B". So, now the question is B = Male or Human? A = Female or Walker?

I hate the whole Jadis/Anne plot with the fire of 1000 suns. That garbage heap thing will never fit this show for me or make a lick of sense. That being said, bc now they've sullied Rick's exit with a tie in coming from garbage woman herself - when she met Rick she put him in a container labeled "A." She had him fight Winston the walker , so testing his stamina, I suppose. Now, if I'm not mistaken, she labeled Rick a "B." She said earlier, she mistakenly labeled Fr. Pee pants a "B" when he revealed he can't go eith her and "has to tell Rick," making him an "A" now.  I hate that I care about her little trades and trickery. But I want to know what this paradise is that she is trying so hard to win her way back into and who is on the walkie and why. 

I'll never not watch this show. I abandoned Fear the Walking Dead many times over but this is my "must watch" every week. I don't know now with Rick & Carl gone, but we have my faves:  Daryl, Carol, Michone & Maggie (only bc she's an OG/Herschel's daughter, Glenn's wife) .

I don't care much about: annoying Eugene , Rosita , Gabe, Jesus & Negan (he should be food for worms long ago)

Aaron and the King can stay. I've got lukewarm feelings about them.

[Gobi]

20 hours ago, Nashville said:

Posted this in the live discussion thread, but wanted to bring it over here as well - concerning the A/B scale to which Jadis and the helicopter folks constantly refer:

—————-

In *this* specific context - and regarding how Jadis kept trying to tip walkers into face-nibbles with both Negan and FP - I’m wondering if:

• A = “lightly” ZV-infected; bitten, but not yet turned.
• B = not ZV-infected.

But last episode, didn't Jadis say to FPP: "I thought you were an A. "?

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

I like Maggie, but she really thought she was going to go man-o-mano with Negan.

Well, Michonne went mano-o-mano with the Governor, also a 6'2" man who was not half-starved and she miraculously came away without a scratch even after having her head beaten against a wall and rammed through an aquarium, so I see no problem with Maggie flinging frail Negan around. Women are invulnerable and men are weaklings (or vice-versa) if it serves the plot.

 

15 minutes ago, Kdawg82 said:

I don't know now with Rick & Carl gone, but we have my faves:  Daryl, Carol, Michone & Maggie (only bc she's an OG/Herschel's daughter, Glenn's wife) .

The only person I still like, even though he's annoyed me on many occasions, is Daryl. Even through his Mumbling Period and after TPTB turned him into a fuckup, yeah, I still like him, maybe only because he's never inflicted a dreaded monologue on us. So far.

[Mu Shu]

I’m warming up to the Rick movie of the week.  

Think about it-Rick Grimes the Musical. Featuring hits like “Rick Grimes, Rick Grimes” (It’s been a long, long journey from Macon  to McLean).  “How do you solve a problem like Andrea”, “Don’t cry for me Alexandria”, and everyone’s favorite  “Ol’ Man Herschel “. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Mu Shu

[Colorado David]

28 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I’m warming up to the Rick movie of the week.  

Think about it-Rick Grimes the Musical. Featuring hits like “Rick Grimes, Rick Grimes” (It’s been a long, long journey from Macon  to McLean).  “How do you solve a problem like Andrea”, “Don’t cry for me Alexandria”, and everyone’s favorite  “Ol’ Man Herschel “. 

Walker Night City, Stabbing Queen, Jesusanado....lots of many bad Abba tunes here :)

[RustbeltWriter]

I'm loving this season because changing the show runner and sidelining Rick allow Angela Kang and company to do new things. It felt like we were mired in Negan's tar pit of suckery forever, but now they can move on and allow some of the other characters to have some air. I like Rick, and the idea that we'll get him in little doses seems like a good one. I'm actually excited to see what comes next.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

But last episode, didn't Jadis say to FPP: "I thought you were an A. "?

No; Jadis said “And here I thought you were a B”, then promptly knocked FPP out.  

To me it appeared Jadis intended (with a Z bite?) to make FPP an A.

[CletusMusashi]

9 hours ago, Butless said:

They have more chemistry than Richonne. Michonne was too good for him. He needs someone bossy, not adoring.

Well, he did marry Lori. Although his first choice was obviously Shane.

[CletusMusashi]

Having had a day to think about the episode, I am left with only one conclusion.

Kirkman Schmirkman. Death of the Author, baby!

Rick Grimes died on that fucking rebar.

And then Maggie, Michonne, Daryl, Carol, and Jerry tore the world a newer, more functional asshole.

But while Rick was dying, he hallucinated not only everything in this episode, but everything we will see from now on.

A horse that sticks around and magically doesn't get eaten by zombies. Zombies that take a smoke break whenever you need to talk to the ghost phone. Maggie and Michonne both finally agreeing that Negan should be kept alive for... reasons? Finally getting to be the leader of a bigass honest-to-fucking-god zombie parade. Talking to old friends. Saving the day with your bigass .357 Magnum, for once, finally, against enemies that you can literally kill by squirting a hose on them. Going out as a hero. Or at least, convincingly faking going out as a hero, so everyone still thinks well of you. Flying away in a magic helicopter that nobody you're retreating from can see or hear. And having lots and lots of dirty dumpsterdiva sex with the only woman on the entire show that you have any chemistry with. Oh, and also Judith grows up to be Carl, so you don't have to pick a favorite.

The previews look fun. Rick's dying thoughts might still be beter than Kirkman or Gimple's normal ones. 

But can you imagine the fun if, instead of Rick's imaginary future, they'd gone with, say, Abraham's? Or Simon's? Or, dare I say it, even Neil's?

Edited November 6, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[Mu Shu]

14 hours ago, peach said:

I think in this case, he was sure he was dying anyway from his injury.  So might as well go up in a ball of fire than turn or be shot in the head. 

Yes.  Alonso Cushing had a bad abdominal wound at Gettysburg, but insisted on moving his remaining guns down to the front line and continued working until he finally got shot in the face.  Back then, most abdominal wounds resulted in death, and a very unpleasant one.   No way Rick would have survived this, but helicopter. 

[Haleth]

A day late and something short, I dunno.  As improbably as it all was I did enjoy this episode.  Rick could be infuriating with his numbskull decisions, but he was always the heart of the show so I'm wondering if viewers I will continue to have an interest in the next tier of characters moving on.  I did like seeing Judith/LAK doing her thang with the lifelong training she's had.  I generally can't stand kids on shows but if she can live up to her nickname it will be interesting.

Hand waving the silent helicopter.  The rushing water under the bridge was pretty loud.  Maybe that explains it.  Maybe.  I'm happy Rick was whisked off and (AFAWK) will be ok.  The dream scenes tore my heart out.  RIP Scott Wilson.  I'm really, really sorry they didn't bring back Glenn or Carl for a final scene with Rick.  I'd still be bawling.  These scenes reminded me of when the show was great, can't miss stuff.

That was one well trained horse to not panic with all that commotion of filming around him.

[hoosiermommy]

1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

Yes.  Alonso Cushing had a bad abdominal wound at Gettysburg, but insisted on moving his remaining guns down to the front line and continued working until he finally got shot in the face.  Back then, most abdominal wounds resulted in death, and a very unpleasant one.   No way Rick would have survived this, but helicopter. 

I am stunned...I never thought to see an Alonso Cushing (Medal of Honore winner) reference on Previously.  

 

Well done!

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm really, really sorry they didn't bring back Glenn or Carl for a final scene with Rick.  I'd still be bawling.  These scenes reminded me of when the show was great, can't miss stuff.

I didn't think of that.  Carl I did, but not Glenn.  Sasha almost made no sense.  She was always a second tier character and never interacted with Rick much.  Glenn on the other hand was a major character and after the way he exited the show, earned a scene in this one where we could see him whole again one last time.

[peach]

40 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I didn't think of that.  Carl I did, but not Glenn.  Sasha almost made no sense.  She was always a second tier character and never interacted with Rick much.  Glenn on the other hand was a major character and after the way he exited the show, earned a scene in this one where we could see him whole again one last time.

I think Carl was excluded for behind the scenes reasons, but after thinking about it some more...Rick was wrestling with his deepest guilt in the scenes with Shane and Hershel.  Shane for obvious reasons, and to Hershel he apologized for his death, and Beth AND Glenn's, so they did kind of include it there, the weight Rick carried about feeling responsible for all of it.  And I guess Sonequa was available, and they threw her in there for the overarching, hey we all do our part for as long as it lasts for the ones who go on.  Also, everybody dies, lulz.  Except Rick, apparently.

I am interested in seeing Steven's new movie, Burning.  Too bad he didn't get to make that last WD appearance to get some attention toward his film.

[CletusMusashi]

So am I the only one who kind of wants to see the Rick Grimes spinoff movie? What do they do, fly around in the helicopter and have zany adventures? 

"Meet Rick Grimes and Jadis! He's a tough southern law man! She's a filthy piece of dumpster trash! And together they are... Grimes and Grimier!" I would get very drunk and watch the shit out of that nonsense!

Edited November 6, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Having had a day to think about the episode, I am left with only one conclusion.

Kirkman Schmirkman. Death of the Author, baby!

Rick Grimes died on that fucking rebar.

And then Maggie, Michonne, Daryl, Carol, and Jerry tore the world a newer, more functional asshole.

But while Rick was dying, he hallucinated not only everything in this episode, but everything we will see from now on.

A horse that sticks around and magically doesn't get eaten by zombies. Zombies that take a smoke break whenever you need to talk to the ghost phone. Maggie and Michonne both finally agreeing that Negan should be kept alive for... reasons? Finally getting to be the leader of a bigass honest-to-fucking-god zombie parade. Talking to old friends. Saving the day with your bigass .357 Magnum, for once, finally, against enemies that you can literally kill by squirting a hose on them. Going out as a hero. Or at least, convincingly faking going out as a hero, so everyone still thinks well of you. Flying away in a magic helicopter that nobody you're retreating from can see or hear. And having lots and lots of dirty dumpsterdiva sex with the only woman on the entire show that you have (EVER HAD) any chemistry with. Oh, and also Judith grows up to be Carl, so you don't have to pick a favorite.

The previews look fun. Rick's dying thoughts might still be beter than Kirkman or Gimple's normal ones. 

But can you imagine the fun if, instead of Rick's imaginary future, they'd gone with, say, Abraham's? Or Simon's? Or Gregory's? Or, dare I say it, even Neil's?

Sorry but I had to, like, quote every word of this cuz they're all my favorites, but if someone were holding a .357 Magnum (or a firehose) to my head, the bolded would be near the top. It's just too true but I had to add two words. No Lothario, was our Ricky G.

Quote

Or at least, convincingly faking going out as a hero, so everyone still thinks well of you.

That's a hard way to make everyone get over the mad-on they had for you.

[sarthaz]

If we continue to waste brain cells giving a shit about what A and B mean, the terrorists win.

[CletusMusashi]

Actually, i think I've got it. 

An A is a ready-to-go asset, whereas a B will require more of an investment in order to be useful.

Rick was an A until he got wounded. Now he's a B, but after they fix him up he can be an A again.

Coral would have been an A right before getting shot, a B for a while after getting shot, and an A again after that. Similar deal with FPP. 

They might sometimes even take C-listers, who have no special amazing skills but are still healthy normal people to do regular work. A D-lister would be a potential C that needs medical attention or skill training. And then an F would be someone like Gregory, that will try to steal the gasoline out of your helicopter when they're in mid-flight with you.

[WalkerTalker]

14 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Well, Michonne went mano-o-mano with the Governor, also a 6'2" man who was not half-starved and she miraculously came away without a scratch even after having her head beaten against a wall and rammed through an aquarium, so I see no problem with Maggie flinging frail Negan around. Women are invulnerable and men are weaklings (or vice-versa) if it serves the plot.

 

The only person I still like, even though he's annoyed me on many occasions, is Daryl. Even through his Mumbling Period and after TPTB turned him into a fuckup, yeah, I still like him, maybe only because he's never inflicted a dreaded monologue on us. So far.

I see Michonne as more of a warrior than Maggie. Plus, Michonne's use of the sword has its advantages. Maggie has really become a warrior in her own right. I think Michonne is stronger.   I think what bothered most about that scene with Maggie and Negan is how close she let him get to her. If I was going to go one -on -one with someone I would never let them get that close to me. She is already at a disadvantage framewise, muscle wise. She needs the advantage of momentum behind her, and surprise. Surprise in where she strikes first. A man of his stature recently not eating would not have lost that much muscle mass. Had Michonne not stabbed the gov in the eye he might have gotten the upper hand on her. That was a knock down drag out fight. I'm all for strong women in power/control. I think it is neat that  they made Judith the heir apparent.  It was powerful that they made Carol a warrior queen from a downtrodden abused wife.

[peach]

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

So am I the only one who kind of wants to see the Rick Grimes spinoff movie? What do they do, fly around in the helicopter and have zany adventures? 

"Meet Rick Grimes and Jadis! He's a tough southern law man! She's a filthy piece of dumpster trash! And together they are... Grimes and Grimier!" I would get very drunk and watch the shit out of that nonsense!

I'm all for it.  Not the Jadis part, gross. But I'm down for a Rick Grimes movie adventure, because it might actually be about Rick Grimes and not a bloated cast of random group people.  Maybe. 

[Mu Shu]

1 hour ago, CletusMusashi said:

So am I the only one who kind of wants to see the Rick Grimes spinoff movie? What do they do, fly around in the helicopter and have zany adventures? 

"Meet Rick Grimes and Jadis! He's a tough southern law man! She's a filthy piece of dumpster trash! And together they are... Grimes and Grimier!" I would get very drunk and watch the shit out of that nonsense!

Oh man I would watch it with you.  I love stupid tv. 

[sarthaz]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So am I the only one who kind of wants to see the Rick Grimes spinoff movie? What do they do, fly around in the helicopter and have zany adventures? 

"Meet Rick Grimes and Jadis! He's a tough southern law man! She's a filthy piece of dumpster trash! And together they are... Grimes and Grimier!" I would get very drunk and watch the shit out of that nonsense!

The only way I'll get AMC Premiere.

[Kdawg82]

7 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

The only way I'll get AMC Premiere

Whoa Whoa Whoa...(in the voice of Abraham) "who's AMC premiere?!"  I need a more special AMC for these alleged "movies"?  Specifics please? 

[Macbeth]

I do feel sorry for Jeffrey Dean Morgan.

He is a good actor and does subtlety well as proven this episode.  When Negan was begging for Maggie to kill him, I felt JDM was begging the audience to forgive him.

There is nothing to forgive Jeffrey.  I don't blame you.  It is clear you played the character as instructed - one note/cartoonish.

I just can't stand having Negan on my tv.  It's nothing personal.

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Actually, i think I've got it. 

An A is a ready-to-go asset, whereas a B will require more of an investment in order to be useful.

Rick was an A until he got wounded. Now he's a B, but after they fix him up he can be an A again.

Coral would have been an A right before getting shot, a B for a while after getting shot, and an A again after that. Similar deal with FPP. 

They might sometimes even take C-listers, who have no special amazing skills but are still healthy normal people to do regular work. A D-lister would be a potential C that needs medical attention or skill training. And then an F would be someone like Gregory, that will try to steal the gasoline out of your helicopter when they're in mid-flight with you.

I’d thought of that a while back, but I kept running into the same brick wall: if an A is a ready-to-go asset - and you WANT them to be ready-to-go - then where’s the value in letting them get face-bit by a walker first?  The walker-tipper and roller-dolly assemblies Jadis employed were not trivialities thrown together on a whim - they were specifically designed for their function.  There’s a specific process and goal involved to which we have not yet been made privy.  

Helifino what the goal is, though.  :[

[AngelaHunter]

What is coming up, namely ferocious millennials who all look as though they came freshly from a shampoo and cut at the Apocalypse Hair Salon, is bad enough although I do appreciate that Daryl now looks like a medieval hermit who dwells in a hut in the forest deep and Carol, like a character in "Lord of the Rings".

I have zero intentions of watching any spin-offs, movies or any other money-grabs at all about "The Further Adventures of Rick Grimes" unless it IS:

3 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

"Meet Rick Grimes and Jadis! He's a tough southern law man! She's a filthy piece of dumpster trash! And together they are... Grimes and Grimier!"

Bring it on!

2 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

I'm all for strong women in power/control.

Me too! I love smart women with power, unless they're given superhuman powers or strength in order to further some agenda. Derived from a comic book or not, these are real flesh-and-blood people we see.

2 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

Had Michonne not stabbed the gov in the eye he might have gotten the upper hand on her.

But she stabbed him after the fight, when that very first punch he gave her would have knocked any woman out, never mind the skull-splitting head beating. No woman, unless she's a martial arts expert, is going to have a chance against a towering, powerful man in hand-to-hand and it's even sillier in retrospect when we saw at the end of the "Great War" that Michonne was nearly killed fighting some little girl. JMO.

2 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

 I think what bothered most about that scene with Maggie and Negan is how close she let him get to her.

I know! Has she learned nothing at all in the last 5 years?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think Carl was excluded for behind the scenes reasons

I think which former cast mates were able to appear was dependent on who was available and willing. I found so much of this episode reminiscent of the pilot, with Rick riding around on the horse into downtown Atlanta, that having an appearance by Glenn seemed almost required. Clearly Steven Yeun was just not available.

 

Quote

An A is a ready-to-go asset, whereas a B will require more of an investment in order to be useful.

Since Jadis was able to determine whether Gabriel was A or B based on his behavior and/or reactions, it doesn't seem to have to do with anything physically. Really the most obvious answer, given just that little bit of information, is that it refers to the common "Type A" or "Type B" personality. It's possible she simply lied to  the Helicopter pilot  about Rick being a "B" for some reason yet unknown. 

If the Helicopter people are rounding up an unwilling work force, for example, they would prefer Type B personalities, who are more inclined to be followers than leaders. So labeling people as such simply streamlines which kind of candidate they're looking for at that particular moment, for a particular job.

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I just can't stand having Negan on my tv.  It's nothing personal.

The problem with not killing him off is that the alternative is "reforming" him in some way and I'm sorry . . . there's just no way to do that. Somehow the writers are going to try to make it palatable that this character is eventually mainstreamed back into the community and it makes no sense to do that. I don't care how "charismatic" or popular the actor is or what kind of following they think he has. The character is beyond redemption no matter what he does going forward. The story has seen to it and would have to expect us to forget those things ever happened.

[EllipticalAddicted]

During the Maggie and Negan scene, I was actually hoping that Negan would kill Maggie.   That's how much I hate her character.    

[peach]

38 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Me too! I love smart women with power, unless they're given superhuman powers or strength in order to further some agenda. Derived from a comic book or not, these are real flesh-and-blood people we see.

But she stabbed him after the fight, when that very first punch he gave her would have knocked any woman out, never mind the skull-splitting head beating. No woman, unless she's a martial arts expert, is going to have a chance against a towering, powerful man in hand-to-hand and it's even sillier in retrospect when we saw at the end of the "Great War" that Michonne was nearly killed fighting some little girl. JMO.

This is why I've always appreciated Carol's character.  She is wily, and uses her smallness and apparent weakness to fake people out.  She's ruthless in attitude, and savage in execution, but they don't have her unrealistically beating people up.  She will light you on fire, though. lol

[spiderpig]

This ep caused serious discord at Maison Pig.  Mr liked it and I thought it stunk.  The only things I liked were Hershel and the horse.

After the big buildup to "Rick's last episode" and ending the previous with Rick impaled on rebar, they have him ride around forever (on said gorgeous steed), detonate a bomb, and helicopter off into the sunset with Jadis/Anne.

All a big ruse to give the producers a way to do features.  

[AngelaHunter]

1 minute ago, peach said:

This is why I've always appreciated Carol's character.  She is wily, and uses her smallness and apparent weakness to fake people out.

Absolutely. I do appreciate and love how revolutionary it was to have a small, middleaged woman (a demographic basically invisible in most tv/movies) emerge as such a strong figure, who uses so well and intelligently the power she does have.

[Nashville]

48 minutes ago, peach said:

This is why I've always appreciated Carol's character.  She is wily, and uses her smallness and apparent weakness to fake people out.  She's ruthless in attitude, and savage in execution, but they don't have her unrealistically beating people up.  She will light you on fire, though. lol

In other words - a Southern woman.  ;>

Oh, I almost forgot: kudos to Silver, Rick’s horse - and if that’s not the horse’s name, then by god it oughta be.  Silver stuck around through thick and thin, even when there was no good reason to - and when the stupid got too dense to be tolerated, he blew that popsicle stand like a true survivor.  

Congratulations, Silver - in one episode you demonstrated a better combination of loyalty and good sense than any other cast member in the last two years.  ;)

[Kdawg82]

I almost wish Rick just blew up in the fire. Is that bad? I don't feel closure on the "family's" behalf nor do I have faith that AL has any promising appearances in whatever they'll create in the future.  Without his merry band of survivors , who IS Rick Grimes?! He'll also be in anguish wherever he is without his family. 

[Colorado David]

ah man, i would've killed to see rick in a flashback memory to he and Glenn first meeting, with that baseball cap he wore and Glenn saving Rick. i would've bawled at that, writers take note

[AngelaHunter]

12 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

ah man, i would've killed to see rick in a flashback memory to he and Glenn first meeting, with that baseball cap he wore and Glenn saving Rick.

Really, if the most important people like Glenn, to whom he owes his life, Carl, and maybe (for good or bad) his wife, Lori, couldn't be incorporated here, TPTB should have just skipped the whole "Ghost of Christmas Past" thing. Are we supposed to buy that Rick's subconscious conjured up Sasha, but not his only and dearly beloved son or his son's mother? Blah.

[Colorado David]

10 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Really, if the most important people like Glenn, to whom he owes his life, Carl, and maybe (for good or bad) his wife, Lori, couldn't be incorporated here, TPTB should have just skipped the whole "Ghost of Christmas Past" thing. Are we supposed to buy that Rick's subconscious conjured up Sasha, but not his only and dearly beloved son or his son's mother? Blah.

I know!!! so much gold there, using glenn, coral, and lori....and they miss it completely. unless those actors had non-flashback clauses, THIS WAS DUMB. could've totally been a tissue episode front to back, but nah, focusing on the more distant relationships? had they done glenn, carl, and lori, i'd soooo be singing praises

Edited November 7, 2018 by Colorado David