Dominion - General Discussion

[Irishmaple]

This show has completely grown on me.  After a disappointing season of Graceland and my growing disenchantment with Hell on Wheels, I thought summer was going to be a TV bust which isn't good for my addiction, but this show and Z Nation might just salvage the end of the summer for me.  I like some cheese with my white wine so this one nailed it.

 

Gabriel got more interesting with his overkill approach to minion management.  William complains about his princess getting a boo-boo so Gabriel wipes out a diner to toughen him up and William goes on to enjoy the hell out of cracking an acolyte's ribs.  Why are humans pledging their loyalty to Gabriel?  Did they miss the part where he tried to wipe out the species and continues to do so?  I also enjoyed Gabriel's loyalty to his brother, Michael, despite being disappointed in him for his silly loyalty to humanity.  I was surprised that the Fire Angel guy was so obvious about his weakness.  I guess he's not familiar with Gabriel's methods but he won't be making that mistake again.  William is a very unconvincing leader.  He always looks like he's waiting for someone to tell him what to do.  And he seems completely unfamiliar with friend-zoning. 

 

I almost choked when a woman addressed Claire as Lady Riesin.  Seriously?  I have a hard enough time buying the caste system, but adding titles to it was ridiculous.  Why would the Senate think that was a good idea?   

 

Michael continues to be my favourite character.  I really liked him facing down Whele and pointing out how easily he could kill him.  I wasn't surprised that Michael was aware of neutral angels hiding in the city.  He seems like someone very comfortable with secrets.  I wonder if he knows that Riesin has an angel mistress.  I'm assuming for now she's one of the neutrals but with Riesin's luck she's just biding her time.  I'm not overly impressed with Michael's girlfriend though.  Why would she care if people know that she's sleeping with Michael?  He's hot and powerful and helped saved humanity. 

 

Evelyn's idea of divorce was harsh.  She and Gabriel would get along.

[Greta]

Michael continues to be my favourite character.  I really liked him facing down Whele and pointing out how easily he could kill him.  I wasn't surprised that Michael was aware of neutral angels hiding in the city.  He seems like someone very comfortable with secrets.  I wonder   I'm not overly impressed with Michael's girlfriend though.  Why would she care if people know that she's sleeping with Michael?  He's hot and powerful and helped saved humanity. 

 

I know, right?  I have a hard time seeing the straight female and gay male Vega constituents thinking anything but "Damn. Get it, girl!"  OTOH, there's supposed to be a very strong anti-angel bias, extending to general mistrust of Michael, in Vega. I think the writing could have done a better job of illustrating that.

 

"Lady Riesen" made me roll my eyes too. The idea of Claire as a political prop very popular with the masses totally works, but actual titles (after only 25 years) is just overkill.

 

I've got to defend William a little. He's so cringe-worthy awful in many ways, but it took real guts to trot out to a meeting with Gabriel to complain about Claire getting hurt. Plus I actually believe him when he's nice to people and dispensing charity; it doesn't come off as just manipulation.

 

I loved that Gabriel didn't even try to hide that he was upset over Michael being hurt. He didn't claim that watching his mentor get cut down in front of him would just turn Alex even more against Gabriel (which, duh, Furiad!) or that Furiad had not followed orders. He just went straight to the "my brother is NOT dead" and the stabbing.

[Irishmaple]

I wish TPTB had gone with a different name for Furiad.  I'm a Riddick fan and in the second movie he and another male character were from the planet Furia and were called Furians.  It throws me every time.  I keep looking for Vin Diesel.

[thuganomics85]

Looks like it's coming back for another season.  This time it looks like we'll be getting 13 episodes of political battles, betrayl, angel fights, butt shots, and Anthony Head with an American accent!

Edited September 25, 2014 by thuganomics85

[Irishmaple]

Showcase were nice enough to put this episode on their website the day after it aired, meanwhile I'm still waiting to see episode 5 of Outlander which aired last Saturday and still hasn't been uploaded.  Guess that makes it clear which is their prize show for the early fall! 

 

I'm still enjoying this one.  I've had a crappy late summer so this is diverting me nicely.  Plus Michael was shirtless so I can forgive this episode pretty much anything.  The new Fall Season hasn't offered anything I want to watch on Wednesday nights as yet so I'm good with this for now.  Rebecca redeemed herself with the loyalty to Michael and the appearance of knowing what she was about in the Senate.  I'm okay with her head staying attached to her shoulders for now.  Uriel is twisty but not twisty enough to be interesting, thanks to one of the weakest performances I've seen on this show.  She was worse than the guy who plays Alex and who continues to deeply annoy me.

 

You know, if it wasn't for the needless homicides, the power-grasping and the establishment of a post-apocalypse social elite (this show makes me want to form Occupy Vega) I'd actually like David Whele.  I respect his rejection of the Chosen One myth and his personal rejection of Alex.  I respect the fact that he thinks humanity should save themselves from the Angels, though keeping the bulk of said humanity half-starved and in dire poverty seems a bit short-sighted.  I like his impatience with those who think a Saviour should do the heavy lifting.  I liked that he could exhibit a sense of humour while nursing a bullet-wound.  And then he killed the kid.  She was going back into lockdown at the Riesin place so it wasn't like she was going to be talking Chosen One all over the place.  Holding her hand was a nice touch, I thought, from a storytelling POV.  

 

This brings me back to my major issue with Michael.  He's only dealing with the elites too.  Exactly who are the people he's standing against his family to protect?  This lot?  I wouldn't cross the road to help the Wheles or the Riesins.   

[Irishmaple]

Lots of stuff seemed to happen in this episode but I wasn't really entertained by any of it, except for every part that contained Michael.  He's the only reason I'm still watching this show, especially when Gabriel doesn't bother to check in.  This is the first episode I found boring.  I realize many of you were over this show by July but I'm catching up here.

 

I find Alex tedious and wish the show was about Michael looking for the Chosen One or replacing the Chosen One or realizing the Chosen One isn't going to work and humanity should save itself.  In contrast, I like David Whele in all his evil twistiness.  I found it interesting that the lack of respect he has for William goes back such a long way and to something so huge for the family.  A little kid whining in the closet betrayed everyone and that's still who Whele sees when he looks at his only surviving child (for now; the others will probably show up as 8-balls sooner or later)  Clearly nobody watched TV or saw a movie in that family because every bad guy looks in the closet.  I don't get why William is so excited to marry a woman who couldn't be less interested in him and is barely bothering to hide that fact.  I can understand that he's into her but doesn't he have any pride?  I find it irritating that Claire insists her wedding is a huge event for Vega and she's doing it for the people, and her engagement party isn't a public event with a mass feast, just another excuse for the elite to dress up.  The only thing I'm looking forward to in this storyline is seeing where David goes with his realization that William is secretly working for Gabriel. 

 

Becca is an idiot.  When breaking up with Michael, why wouldn't she hit that one last time?  And I still don't get why sleeping with an Archangel is all that bad.  Why would people judge her?  Why would she care?  She's sleeping with a man who could wipe out anyone who side-eyed her.  I wish the show had done a better job of showing the consequences for Becca and the harem.  And why is there a harem?  If women of child-bearing age are so valuable, why are four of them still single and willing to be shipped off to Helena?  Honestly, Vega confuses me.  The world-building on this show is pretty weak.

 

I did feel bad for the angel that used to be Claire's mom.  That first murder was mostly in self-defence and snowballed from there.  I thought the actress did a good job with the terror of being chased and the fear of being killed.  And Michael hasn't caught up to her yet. 

[Greta]

 

I find Alex tedious and wish the show was about Michael looking for the Chosen One or replacing the Chosen One or realizing the Chosen One isn't going to work and humanity should save itself.  

...

Becca is an idiot.  When breaking up with Michael, why wouldn't she hit that one last time?  And I still don't get why sleeping with an Archangel is all that bad.  Why would people judge her?  Why would she care?  She's sleeping with a man who could wipe out anyone who side-eyed her.  I wish the show had done a better job of showing the consequences for Becca and the harem.  And why is there a harem?  If women of child-bearing age are so valuable, why are four of them still single and willing to be shipped off to Helena?  Honestly, Vega confuses me.  The world-building on this show is pretty weak.

 

I did feel bad for the angel that used to be Claire's mom.  That first murder was mostly in self-defence and snowballed from there.  I thought the actress did a good job with the terror of being chased and the fear of being killed.  And Michael hasn't caught up to her yet. 

 I agree with your whole post, but in the interest of space just cut to the parts I really, really THIS'ed:) My dream twist is that Alex just randomly dies and zap! The tattoos are on someone else (if we must have a Chosen One at all.) I feel like there's so much else that could be shown about Vega and the entire show world if we didn't have the obligatory Hero's Journey scenes taking up space.

 

I think the show is supposed to be setting forth the idea that Michael is viewed with as much distrust and suspicion as any angel by almost everyone in Vega, partially because of human nature's us vs. them default and partially as a consequence of his own highhandness and less-than-winning personality. (Actually a really good story arc.) And also that Vega's "rules" (about the V system, the importance of children and marriage to rebuilding society,fraternizing with angels (ahem, Becca and Riesen)) are very much ignored or worked around by people with the power to do so. Notice that Becca not only ends her relationship with Michael, she fairly casually uproots four women's lives to save HER reputation. But both these ideas haven't gotten the "show not tell" emphasis they should. A couple of scenes of Michael interacting with the regular Vegans (while on his stealthy "I'm totally here just looking at apples in this grocery store! I say, storekeep that I absolutely don't know! Do you have any peanut butter?" quest?) and maybe bumping into one of the harem girls and actually having to talk to her would have done wonders. I can prepare a lengthy list of Alex scenes that could have been cut to accommodate the time. (And remind me to share the rage-inducing Michael scene deletion from the finale to allow for more Alex monologuing.)

 

Ah Clementine, she is kind of tragic, isn't she? I really came to appreciate Amy Bailey's acting on this show; I actually watched a Lifetime movie just because I saw she was in it. It was a terrible movie, but she was great.

 

She does have a scene next week with Michael, and it might be my favorite scene of the entire season.  It's a tantalizing glimpse at backstory and insight into both characters.

[Irishmaple]

I wonder if there was any point in the making of this season when TPTB realized Tom Wisdom was completely stealing the show from the guy who plays Alex?  I don't think Michael is a particularly sympathetic character but I find him interesting and I like what the actor is doing with the role.  Alex stands opposite him like a block of wood and doesn't seem to have anything to bring other than deliver what's in the script.  Normally I would like the Hero's Journey aspect of this show but I have zero interest in Alex so it's not working for me at all.  I also hate the Chosen One aspect of his Heroicness.  I'm solidly with David Whele on that one. 

 

One of my issues with the lack of world-building is Michael only dealing with the Senate.  He knows who these people are and can see that they're only out for themselves, despite their endless bleating about the good of Vega.  They don't give a crap about the people they've governing.  And the people, when they aren't starving and trying to eke out a living, have no reason to care about those governing them.  Personally I'd feel nothing but resentment for Lady freaking Riesen and her lovely existence.  I'd hate and fear angels too, but I haven't seen anything on the show to judge why that hatred and fear should extend to Michael as an individual.  He has actively chosen to exist apart from his brethren and ally himself with the city of Vega.  He isn't a particularly nice guy and his arrogance would bug, so I would like to see him out in Vega and see how the everyday people react to him.  It makes no sense to me that Becca would pay a price for choosing to love him.  Gabriel, yes; that would be actively consorting with the enemy but Michael lives in the city and defends it.  The show could use some regular or recurring characters to show what the rest of Vega looks like and how they react to what's going on.  I realize the soldiers might be expected to fulfil this requirement but, for me, they're too closely allied with the people they're protecting.  I guess my biggest problem with the show is that it isn't really telling Michael's story, it's telling Alex's and I find that much less interesting.

 

I've been tempted to read the threads discussing episodes I have yet to see, but I've decided not to do that and just watch the show week-by-week.  Maybe some of my complaints have already been resolved. 

[Greta]

Well, they did reference someone attempting to stab Claire as how she and Alex met,which is another example of setting up an idea (unrest/dissatisfaction among the masses),but not following through.

 

I think they realized pretty early on that Michael/Tom Wisdom was the breakout, maybe even before the whole season was written.  The Legion backstory somewhat required a Chosen One to appear.  But, to keep it as vague/spoiler-free as possible, looking back at the season I keep thinking "oh, wow, X in episode 2 really tied into Y in episode 4 and then Z in the finale" with regard to Michael, Becca, the Wheles, even Claire. With Alex, it's just a collection of scenes and lines that are there because...the script says they are.  It's not helped by the fact that Chris Egan is a weak actor who doesn't seem to have a throughline for Alex. (The whole thing reminds me of a post on TWOP about a Days of our Lives character who had a story about an amputated leg.  The actor's (and DOOL's IIC) apparent thought process in the next story: "Storyline over.Leg grew back.")

 

I wish the pilot had featured Alex taking the knife for Claire, then dying, to Michael's horror and confusion about what he was supposed to do now to save humanity.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Greta

[Irishmaple]

I guess this episode proved that Claire and William belong together.  I felt terrible for poor Clementine.  The angel didn't seem that bad and was comfortably sharing a body with the mother's memories.  Her affection for Claire seemed genuine and she kind of proved that by spending all those years with Riesen senior.  I would have liked Amy Bailey to stick around for more than a couple of episodes.  She really seized that role and went with it.  Alex again disappointed.  That prayer would have been cool if he'd sold it with some authority or gravitas.

 

I'm not finding Uriel very convincing either.  I think the actress is still the weakest one on the show.  The lack of Gabriel continues and I find his absence really noticeable; he adds much needed spark to the show and he gives Tom Wisdom someone to play off of.  So does Becca so I missed her this week too.  I've lost interest in Arika and I couldn't care less about Helena.  The show is struggling to show me Vega so I can't imagine what the world-building will be like should a second city come into the equation.

 

Don't be dead, David Whele!  I'm genuinely puzzled by the Gabriel cult.  They do know Gabriel wants to wipe out humanity, don't they?  What do they hope to gain by worshipping him?  Are they a suicide cult?  

[Irishmaple]

Alex is so tedious even his sex scene is boring.  I do give him a teeny bit of credit for stepping up his game to evict Gabriel from the other angel, but he's in a room with Gabriel and Michael, how could he not raise his game?  The other two have charisma, Alex not so much, but he tried.  I have the same issue with Uriel.  She bores me.

 

Oh, David Whele, what a tough episode you had.  I wish you had shot William and taken your chances with the lion.  Not interested in Claire and William at all.  I find it so odd that they're getting married and they can barely stand to touch each other.  I honestly wouldn't be that excited about ruling Vega.  What's to rule?  Annoying senators, the majority of the population in poverty, and an angel who keeps secrets and does what he thinks is best. 

 

Michael's dark past was kind of funny.  The actor seemed to be having a blast, all blood-spattered and unrepentant.  Gabriel's pro-human stance was funny, given how things turned out.  The hair didn't work for me though. 

 

If this show gets a second season, I wonder if Showcase will air it?  I appear to be the only person in Canada watching it!!

[Greta]

I loved the hair! It's like instead of the Goatee of Evil, Michael had the Boy Band Hair of Massacre:)

 

Alex and Noma have more chemistry than Alex and Claire, but that's damning with very, very faint whispers of praise. I do want to see more of Noma by herself though, since &*(^*&^*&ing show went and killed off Clementine. (I'm still bitter.)

[Irishmaple]

Episode 8 aired last night but I missed it due to cable issues; I just checked Showcase online but this one is still listed as the current video.  Hopefully they'll upload the episode soon.  I had no desire to watch this again!  There are only eight episodes this season?  I checked the schedule and an NCIS re-run is listed for next Wednesday at 10pm.  If I don't get to see the finale, I'm going to be an unhappy woman.  Not because I care but because, dammit, I stuck with it.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Irishmaple

[Greta]

Can you access the US SyFy channel website? I think it's available there.

 

The season was originally supposed to be 9 episodes, which got cut down to 8. The finale is actually two episodes edited together into one 1.5 hour episode. 

 

Next season is supposed to have 13 episodes, which hopefully will inspire the writers to fill in the blanks more in terms of world-building. 

[Irishmaple]

I just checked again, Greta, and it's up on Showcase, ready for viewing.  It is listed as two episodes, so your explanation is timely.  A lot depends on this finale.  I really liked Michael and Gabriel, Clementine and Noma from the Angels side; David Whele was the only human I liked which can't be a good thing.  Becca started off interesting but faded.  I would have liked more understanding of why dating Michael was such a risk for her, and why he needed a harem when he and Becca seemed happy together in their angst-ridden way.  Her medical stuff was never really established either.  I also would have liked more characters representing the everyday humans of Vega, not just the elites running the place.  That political stuff got tedious for me in a hurry when the stakes at the bottom of the totem were much higher.  I really don't want another season of Claire and William,  the Council, and Alex's whining.  

[Irishmaple]

That was not what I was expecting.  "Beware Those Closest To You", considering it was the first thing revealed by the tattoos, didn't seem to mean anything to Alex in the end.  Claire didn't betray Alex; he ended the relationship and left her, and she moved on.  She made what she thought was the best possible choice for the baby so I wouldn't consider that a betrayal either since she didn't know William was a Gabriel acolyte and Alex has a high-risk calling.  Michael didn't betray Alex.  He stuck with his irritating Chosen One all the way, and Noma always had his back in the field and put herself at risk for him.

 

Becca's lab genuinely surprised me.  She'd faded from the scene since her break-up with Michael, so her clinical set-up came as an unpleasant surprise.  I understand that Vega is threatened by the Angels and wants to know how to combat them, but what she was doing to Lewis was torture.  Severing his wings while he was alive was gross, and I completely understand why Michael lost it.  If anything, Michael was the one who should beware those closest to him: his brother had loyalists all over Vega, his sister is plotting with Evelyn, Becca betrayed him and Alex never completely trusted him.

 

David Whele lives!  And continues to be the smartest guy in the room (low bar, I know)  Actually William is another guy to whom Beware Those Closest To You applied.  His father only pretended to be an acolyte and bided his time until he could destroy Gabriel's cult, Claire barely tolerated him and planned to pass off Alex's child as his, Gabriel didn't even bother to let William know his plans.  William doesn't seem equipped for life in the wild; I wonder if he's heading for Gabriel's cavern and, if he makes it, will Gabriel have any interest in taking him in?

 

I'm not sure if I'll watch another season of this.  I'm not particularly interested in watching Gabriel manipulate Alex, or Uriel plotting against Claire.  If David Whele and Michael team up to go after Gabriel, I might watch that though!

[Greta]

I thought we were supposed to think (even if dumbass Alex still didn't get it) that the tattoos didn't offer messages for the Chosen One, but through him, like God's Twitter account, if you will.  "Beware those closest to you" absolutely makes sense as a warning to Michael.  Likewise, the only other real message we saw was "She died for you," which was meant for that senator. It might be interesting next season to see Alex attempting to follow instructions from the tattoos (i.e. Stop this now!) that make no sense, because they're actually  meant for Gabriel. Well, it might be interesting if it not for the fact of, well, Alex.

 

I didn't think about how it applied to William, but that's a great point. Maybe he's the real Chosen One and Michael just made a huge mistake, accidentally misprogramming the tattoos onto Jeep and then Alex, like the time I randomly started getting someone else's texts when I got a new cell phone. I would accept any handwaving up to and including "Shoot, Furiad accidentally pushed Alex off a cliff while polishing his wings, but look, the tattoos have mysteriously appeared on this piece of pottery!" The pottery would probably have more charisma.

 

I'll be back next season because the parts that captured my imagination outweigh the dumb and the Alex for me.  Plus, the mysterious gloved hand that healed Michael

is revealed to be Lucifer in a deleted scene in the finale.

 

And I can't wait to find out what that's all about. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Greta

[Irishmaple]

Oh, you got me with that spoiler.  I may just be back now, though it would be nice if Showcase aired it day-and-time with the US Channel instead of months behind.  You alone prevented me being deafened by crickets! 

[bluebonnet]

Tom Wisdom was eaten on another show last night and it made me remember Dominion and I think I'm on board for season 2, which starts July 9th!

[Canada]

Sweet!  I thought this show was cancelled and didn't know it was coming back.  Can't wait for season 2 to start!!

[frenchtoast]

From tvdb.com:

Alex and Noma head to New Delphi after an attack; Claire begins to understand her responsibilities.

 

[Greta]

I am ridiculously excited that Dominion is back.

[bluebonnet]

I maybe should have reviewed last season because I felt a bit lost, especially with the characters.  I couldn't remember half of them and there were some that seemed like they were missing.  Like didn't Claire get married?  What happened with that?  Also, totally did not remember why Michael left or how Alex ended up with Gabriel.

 

So all in all, I felt a bit lost because I'd forgotten some of the plots.  However, this is still a nice and yummy show.  It's sort of ridiculous, but so fun that I'm still on the hook.  Plus, I need to understand what's going on with that magical pyre.  

 

Also, was it just me or was the dubbing of that child super creepy?  That wasn't her voice, right?  

Edited July 10, 2015 by bluebonnet

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, I forgot about half of the stuff that happened last season too.  That said, from what I remember, Michael left because he found out his lover, Becca, was doing experiments on higher angels, so he killed her and I guess he figured everyone would be pissed at him.  As for Alex, I believe he was pissed that Michael hid the fact that he originally killed all the humans during "The Flood", so he went to Gabriel because of that.  But I could be totally off.  It's been so long!

 

Anyway, the show is back and going in different directions.  Alex has already bailed on Gabriel, and he and Nomi seemed to be on their way to New Delphi now.  And it looks like Alex can now expel angels from their human hosts and actually save the human beings.  At least for now.  I'm waiting for another shoe to drop.

 

Meanwhile, Michael's now at some religious camp, that can scare off eight-balls thanks to a magical pyre.  Have no idea what that is all about.  Sounds like some of the group are suspicious of him, but leader lady is totally falling for him.  To be fair, I'm guessing dicing and decapitating eight-balls in the rain, would have that appeal.  Especially when you look like Tom Wisdom.

 

And then their is the New Vega stuff, which is basically coming off like a post-apocalyptic episode of Game of Thrones.  Risen's still gone (didn't see Alan Dale's name in the credits either), so Claire is now the big cheese.  Of course, David ain't down with that at all, so he's doing shady things like killing moles right in the middle of conference rooms and burning down buildings, just so "Level One" people can't live with him.  Classic David.  Claire's got her work cut out for her.  Oh, and Arika is now her adviser or something? 

[kwerkee]

Like didn't Claire get married? What happened with that? Also, totally did not remember why Michael left or how Alex ended up with Gabriel.

It's been a long time since I watched season 1 but here's what I remember. Claire did get married to William. Due to a sequence of events I can't recall right now, he was exiled by his dad.

Michael was betrayed by his human lover (and by extension, humans who he had been protecting). She found out about one of the undercover angels who were neutral, but under Michael's protection. She did experiments on him to find their weaknesses. He was tortured in a lab. Michael found out, killed his lover and went on a rage killing everyone in the lab. He then fled.

Alex witnessed all this and I guessed he freaked out that Michael killed people. Since there were no more angels protecting Vega, he sought out Gabriel to make a deal to protect Vega and his baby.

Re: Magic Pyre. That was interesting. It didn't kill archangels but it targeted low level angels. I wonder how it will deal with higher angels like Norma and some of Gabriel's minions. They are sort of in between in terms of angel hierarchy.

Did Michael suddenly grow gray hair in these past few months? Appreciate the cleansing scene at the beach though.

Edited July 10, 2015 by kwerkee

[SimoneS]

I watched last night to see if the show improved any. Tom Wisdom near naked taking a bath was a definite improvement so kudos. Michael and Gabriel are still the most interesting part of the show. I hardly doubt that God is going around only protecting that community or that the fire is keeping them safe. Probably something else, not good is going there. They might be sacrificing their children or something to a higher angel to protect them. Michael fighting was good, but the close up of the prosthetic work on the angels he killed was poorly done.

 

I was surprised that Alex got away from Gabriel so quickly. Also, Gabriel is willing to kill him does not seem consistent with last season. I don't like Gabriel's new floppy hair.

 

David is still an asshole. The only reason that Clare has not had him killed is plot purposes which is too bad. I am always amazed when on shows (and in real life) that people agree to conspire with sociopaths like him. They have to know that his plans will get them locked up or killed. I guess, greed and the lust for power warps their judgement. They actually surprised me with the twist that William was in his imagination. It makes sense that his guilt is making him crazier. 

 

Alan Dale did not look well last season so I hope that he is doing okay.

Edited July 15, 2015 by SimoneS

[Greta]

Despite Noma killing my beloved hapless Furiad (I think?)- this was a great season opening.  It set up some interesting arcs, particularly for Michael and David. Alex remains the weakest link; I don't think we were supposed to be cheering for Gabriel deciding "eh, I just need the skin" but I so was. 

 

I'm curious as to whether Arika betrayed Uriel or Uriel was in on the plan.  Having watched television before, I know there's got to be some kind of dark underpinning to Mallory, but I found the scenes and the faith imagery, as well as Michael's reaction, really affecting.

[bluebonnet]

Thanks for the recaps, y'all.  I went back and rewatched some of season 1.  Now with this seasons 2 premier, the show doesn't look as bad as it did.  I think opening up the world has really helped.  I often found it was hard to believe there was any sort of apocalypse when Vega was still super bright and shiny.  That school overrun by angle-zombies and that magical pyre town gives a better glimpse of what really happened to the world when the angels came down. 

Speaking of that town, I'm wondering if they will bring Lucifer into the mythology of this show.  There is something very devilish about that pyre.  

[Greta]

There was a photo on the SyFy site of a deleted scene from the season finale that according to the caption was supposed to be Michael turning around whilst angsting after leaving Vega and seeing Lucifer. It was quickly taken down by SyFy, but I think it's pretty clear that the show will introduce Lucifer at some point.I think maybe the writers cut that and the bombdropping from the season finale because they didn't want to be that mean with cliffhangers if Dominion wasn't renewed.

 

And I agree the show has opened up a lot of new possibilities by leaving Vega.  Even in Vega, I see some possibilities.  From a political science/historical perspective, David is right on a couple of points even though he's coming from the wrong side. People in the position of the V-1s are most inclined to start a revolution when things get a little bit better for them, especially if they hear about the bombing and assume Gabriel- the chief threat that makes staying in Vega at all attractive for them- is dead.  

[MrHufflepuff]

I thought this was much better than last season, so I'll keep watching for now, even though I thought last season was terrible.  I mean, I watch Helix and Under the Dome, so it's not like I have high standards for my sci-fi.

 

But that scene where the kid approaches Alex and Noma after being de-possessed was just so badly written.  I mean, if I woke up on the side of the road with no memory of how I got there, I'd be freaked.  And then if I saw two people wandering around with guns, well, initially I might think they were out hunting or something, so maybe I would approach them for help.  But, you know, once they turn the guns on me and start prattling on about wars and angel possessions, I'd be all, "Oh, great.  The cray-cray train is in town and it's pointing guns at me."  But that kid just seemed to get on board with everything pretty quickly.  "Of course I was an eight ball.  Which means you owe me safe passage!"

[Ottis]

And it looks like Alex can now expel angels from their human hosts and actually save the human beings.  At least for now.  I'm waiting for another shoe to drop.

 

 

Which raises the point that, as Michael, Alex, Nomi and others continue slautering 8-balls, they all actually could be saved by Alex. I can't believe this exorcism power is real, otherwise the show is now gleefully killing innocent, possessed people. I thought perhaps the kid they "saved" was acting so weird that he was still possessed (and there was no exorcism), but trying to appear that he wasn't, in order to get intel. Either that, or that was an awful scene and/or very poor acting.

[Greta]

Which raises the point that, as Michael, Alex, Nomi and others continue slautering 8-balls, they all actually could be saved by Alex. I can't believe this exorcism power is real, otherwise the show is now gleefully killing innocent, possessed people. I thought perhaps the kid they "saved" was acting so weird that he was still possessed (and there was no exorcism), but trying to appear that he wasn't, in order to get intel. Either that, or that was an awful scene and/or very poor acting.

Yep, and it appears our Sensitive Noble Chosen One hasn't come to that conclusion yet.  I did notice that when the actor playing Scrappy Doo, er, the de-eightballed human, said "I'm human just like you!" he deliberately looked away from Noma and at Alex, as though he knew only one of them was human, which seems very suspicious.  Maybe the eviction evicts or brings peace and release or whatever to the human soul and once that's completely gone, the eightball's soul takes over the now-empty body without the resistance that led to the black eyes and veins, etc?  Or it's a crap shoot and the more worthy of the two ends up with the body?

[Mars477]

Which raises the point that, as Michael, Alex, Nomi and others continue slautering 8-balls, they all actually could be saved by Alex. I can't believe this exorcism power is real, otherwise the show is now gleefully killing innocent, possessed people. I thought perhaps the kid they "saved" was acting so weird that he was still possessed (and there was no exorcism), but trying to appear that he wasn't, in order to get intel. Either that, or that was an awful scene and/or very poor acting.

Eh, while theoretically this is true, in practice it would be pretty impossible. It took prolonged physical contact while the 8 ball was actively trying to kill him for Alex to expel one angel. It wouldn't exactly be practical (or survivable) to do the same thing with a horde bearing down on his position.

[bluebonnet]

I also had a hard time determining whether or not the de-eightballed human was playing Alex and Noma or if it was just bad dialogue and acting.  It seemed really suspicious, almost reminded me of the eight-ball that was Claire's mother, where she had access to Claire's mom's memories and could have passed herself off as human if only her teeth, skin and eyes weren't so eight ballish.  As Greta above stated, maybe there is no more resistance and so the eight ball features go away. 

 

If that's the case, then Noma is wrong and Alex is probably safer than ever because the eight-balls have a reason to keep him alive.  I really hope this wasn't just bad dialogue and acting because there is a lot of interesting mileage in this sort of plot.  I mean, an Alex who could make the eight balls look human could potentially create a scenario where the lower angels turn against Gabriel, who is now wanting Alex dead so that he can take his skin.  

[Ottis]

Eh, while theoretically this is true, in practice it would be pretty impossible. It took prolonged physical contact while the 8 ball was actively trying to kill him for Alex to expel one angel. It wouldn't exactly be practical (or survivable) to do the same thing with a horde bearing down on his position.

 

 

Morally, the mechanics are irrelevant. Now that the possibility is there to reverse 8-balls (assuming that is what happened, which I am not convinced is true), it completely changes the dynamics of gleefully killing possessed humans. If you *can* save them, you now have to decide whether to try, to avoid killing them, or to simply keep killing them. In terms of mechanics, though, who is to say that this new power doesn't become one where Alex holds up his hands and maud'dibs everyone clean? We don't know what might happen.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Ottis

[maczero]

Does the show seem different to you guys?  Like they're trying to amp up the action/excitement.   More battles and the lead actor seems a lot peppier than last season.

 

Any reason the eight balls don't use guns?  They can speak and know when to use stealth.  Yet they resort to just biting and tearing at their enemies like zombies.  And speaking of zombies, why do eight balls seem to not care whether they live or die when they're attacking.  We've seen some eight balls fear death yet when they're in a mob, they don't seem to mind being gunned down by the dozens.

Which raises the point that, as Michael, Alex, Nomi and others continue slautering 8-balls, they all actually could be saved by Alex. I can't believe this exorcism power is real, otherwise the show is now gleefully killing innocent, possessed people. I thought perhaps the kid they "saved" was acting so weird that he was still possessed (and there was no exorcism), but trying to appear that he wasn't, in order to get intel. Either that, or that was an awful scene and/or very poor acting.

I thought it was poor acting from the de-possessed guy, but maybe you're on to something.

[MrHufflepuff]

Huh.  I hadn't considered the possibility that the de-eight-balled guy was tricking them.  Let's hope that's the case, and not bad writing.  Because if he's really cured, I just feel they could have had a lot of fun with that scene:

 

Alex:  You were an eight ball.

Kid:  You mean like speed?

Alex:  What's speed?

 

Or maybe:

 

Alex:  You were possessed.

Kid:  Like in Constantine?

Alex:  Who's Constantine?

 

Or perhaps:

 

Alex:  You were possessed.

Kid:  I was possessed?  By a demon?

Alex:  Not by a demon.  You were possessed by an angel.

Kid:  But angels are the good guys...?

 

I mean there's so much territory to explore with someone who has just popped out of twenty-five years ago.  Does he know anything about the technology back then?  Does he know anything about how the world used to work?  What sort of religion is he carrying around with him?  But, instead, we got nothing.

Edited July 16, 2015 by MrHufflepuff

[frenchtoast]

With Gabriel in pursuit, Alex and Noma search for an ally; Claire befriends her assassin.

[Greta]

How can a show have so, so much fascinating worldbuilding despite the sucking vortex of suck that is Chris Egan's performance?  I mean, I looked forward to Scrappy Pete's lines just because they were marginally better. I've said since the first few episodes of the series that killing off Alex would be a wonderful twist.  In my head, if we must have a Chosen One, it's actually William who's off having his wandering-in-the-desert part of the hero's journey.

 

Everything else? I really enjoyed.  Michael pulling his face into a beautificient angelic expression perfectly framed by his wings while he lied and lied was simultaneously creepy and hysterically funny.  And then his guilt when Harper ended up dead.  Gabriel actually seemed sincere about protecting his soldier with a mercy kill.  Arika and Claire's weaponizing an eight-ball was disturbing in a good way; I think Roxanne McKee's acting might be improving away from the sucking vortex- it seemed like she was not only a little uneasy when Arika started with the eight-ball, her face and reactions suggested she was thinking about her mother and that experience.  I also really need to learn more about Noma; the actress' reactions to New Delphi, the eight-balls, the higher angels, Gabriel make me wonder what she's thinking all the time.

 

My hope for Scrappy Pete continues to be that he's a deveined eightball.  I don't understand how the casting director who selected the fantastic actresses playing Laurel and Rose could have cast someone this ineffective at playing normal human behavior, so I hold out hope that it's an act.

[thuganomics85]

Apparently, whoever does the content ratings for the episodes, fell asleep during the episode.  Promised use mere TV-MA violence and profanity, but it also gave us eight-ball ass as well.  But, hey, the ass did help knock David off his feet.  Claire and Arika weren't messing around tonight!  Not sure what David is going to do now, but I do think they could end up regretting letting him live.  If it was the council's decision, there has to be some way to stage an "accident."  Because, David does strike me as a baddie who could somehow slither by, if the opportunity arises.

 

So, Alex, Noma, and former eight-ball have arrived in New Delphi, which consists of a mixture of humans and coherent eight-balls, and they are all being lead by Simon Merrells a.k.a. Crassus from Spartacus (or The Founder from The Tomorrow People, heh.)  He's willing to help Will, as long as Will retrieves a key for him, full of a room full of crazy eight-balls.  Good luck, Will!

 

I barely remember the higher angel Alex killed, but I'm guessing from Gabriel's reaction, he was someone important to him.

 

Michael's still hanging with the religious folks, and hot leader lady clearly is into him.  Too bad him asking Harper to lie for him ended up causing her death, thanks to bearded asshole.  Who seems to be able to just ask for forgiveness and be absolved of it.  How does that whole thing work?  Because it would have been some awesome if after he killed her, Michael was just like "Just want to inform y'all I'm going to need to confess soon!", and then decapitates bearded asshole on the spot.

Edited July 17, 2015 by thuganomics85

[kwerkee]

I barely remember the higher angel Will killed, but I'm guessing from Gabriel's reaction, he was someone important to him.

That guy wasn't anybody. Either Gabriel was sincere in ending his soldier's suffering or he just wanted to show he was a crazy badass. It worked; Julian looked shaken up.

edit: Oops, reading comprehension fail. I don't know who Will is.

25 years ago, a bunch of 'tame' 8balls met a bunch of humans and decided to live together. How did that happen? Why are there that many of them? Why are they against Gabriel? They also capture the normal 8balls alive, for what reason? In hopes they will repent and go 'tame'? So many questions. This season actually makes me be interested in Alex's story.

Heaven(!) forbid, I am also starting to like Alex. No more whining. More action. Gaining a sense of humor. Being imprisoned by Gabriel did him good. Michael should have just locked him up in the beginning.

The Vega stuff, though, is still a drag. They were better than last week, but I think their plot can't go anywhere interesting. No angels, no care.

Edited July 17, 2015 by kwerkee

[Ottis]

The whole 8-balls living with humans thing felt very Walking Dead and Alexandria, right down to leader being into a new stranger and bearded asshole who ends up, well, being an asshole.

 

What exactly is Michael doing?

 

And the show touched just for a second on 8-balls being worth saving and then moved to other matters. Curious if this will come up again.

 

 

I think Roxanne McKee's acting might be improving away from the sucking vortex- it seemed like she was not only a little uneasy when Arika started with the eight-ball, her face and reactions suggested she was thinking about her mother and that experience.

 

 

She is so different this season that I actually looked up whether  they changed actresses. She seems both younger and more conniving, which ... I don't think is a good character change. She no longer walks the high road.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Ottis

[Human]

Was it just me or did Alex seem to really revel in killing people this episode?  

[maczero]

Well, I almost got my question answered regarding why 8 balls don't use weapons.  As seen in this episode, they clearly can.  It's just for some reason they choose to act feral.  

 

I gotta say 8 balls are far creepier than zombies.  Not only are they intelligent and able to skitter up walls like cockroaches.  They have this childlike nature that almost makes you feel sorry for them.  

 

Did I miss something?  Why did David Weihle act like he knew the 8 ball when she showed up naked wearing a blonde wig?  Is he in relationship with someone who looks similar?

[Greta]

 

 

She is so different this season that I actually looked up whether  they changed actresses. She seems both younger and more conniving, which ... I don't think is a good character change. She no longer walks the high road.

  

Just curious- why isn't it a good character change? Because she's not as "good"? I think the actress seems to have given more depth to character flaws that were always there.  Claire always thinks she walking the high road with the best of intentions, but the high road has guards and yes-people lining it. I do believe she wants to change the system in Vega, but whether her desire to do so will continue when/if it becomes clear that she might no longer be top dog in a changed system is another question. That goes back to the premiere when she was all set to run away with Alex but then clearly started being reluctant to leave her pretty pretty princess perch.

[Canada]

I still want to know how the angel's wings manage to spring out through their clothes.  Do their shirts and jackets have special wing holes?

[Happytobehere]

The actor who plays Alex is beyond awful. How did he get cast in this role, and why wasn't he recast when the suck that he brings was so painfully obvious in Season 1?

He and the actress who plays Claire are truly the worst things on the show.

This had to be the worst episode of the entire series and that's saying something.

[zxy556575]

I still want to know how the angel's wings manage to spring out through their clothes.  Do their shirts and jackets have special wing holes?

 

No idea, but finding out that wings can be pinned was so traumatic that I don't want to learn any more.

[kwerkee]

I still want to know how the angel's wings manage to spring out through their clothes. Do their shirts and jackets have special wing holes?

I could be mixing up my winged creatures shows, but if I remember correctly, last season you could see slits on Gabriel/minion's shirt/armor.

[Greta]

Laurel being this year's planned sacrifice to keep the Mallory fire going isn't so much speculation as completely obvious, but this show has consistently thrown in twists that surprised me, so you never know.

 

Actual speculation: Julian is the offspring of an angel and a human (referred to as "monsters" in the Bible).  Gabriel and Michael have always known this and made sure to give New Delphi a wide berth, because neither of them actually want to kill him, which points to one of them being daddy.  And all of this is setup for revealing Alex is Lucifer's son, which Michael knows and Gabriel and Noma do not at this point.