S04.E15: Nobody Else Is Dying

[Bort]

Quote

Annalise and her inner circle deal with the aftermath of a suspicious death that culminates with a shocking arrest. A new development involving one of their own changes everything.

[Jeopardy15]

Soooooo, who cute son is that?

[Chick2Chic]

Dang it, Michaela. I like her but what she did to Simon was cold. I should not be surprised but I am so disappointed. I cannot support that move by her esp cause Simon being deported back to Pakistan, esp being gay, is not good for him. Also IMO, Annalise was right about Michaela trying to be her. Asher was also right about Michaela not knowing herself.

I had hoped all of the Castillo family except the baby would die in the ep. *deep sigh* Well, maybe next season I will get my wish.

So Gabriel is Bonnie's son, right? And the show is trying to do a fakeout that he is Annalise's child somehow...

[Neurochick]

Interesting, interesting.

Is that kid Bonnie’s son?  He’s cute.  I wonder who’s the father.

Michaella went full on Annalise tonight.

Glad Bonnie wasn’t the one in the car, but I kind of knew that.

Nate has the files on all of them, I knew he didn’t destroy shit.

So Laurel did kill her mom?  What were those scratches on her arm?

Cute baby.

I liked this finale because there wasn’t any WTF moments at the end, just Annalise singing to a cute baby.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Neurochick

[Lady Calypso]

Well, for a potential series finale, it did end pretty happily for everyone. Connor's reapplying to law school (and the surprise that he flunked out), Simon's been deported back to Pakistan, Laurel's got her baby back, Denver's dead, Jorge is in jail, and everyone else is seemingly content with their lives. Asher moves into Wes' old place, which became Laurel's old place, and is going to be the best man at Oliver/Connor's wedding. Michaela finally gets to be Annalise/herself. And Bonnie gets a new love interest.

But, of course, there are still a couple of dangling plot threads to carry into next season if they get renewed. Where's Mama Castillo? Did she cause those scratches on Laurel's arm? Is the new guy Gabriel really Bonnie's son? What do the other files of Denver say about the main group? 

I will say, Christopher is a cute baby. And Annalise singing to him at the end was very sweet. Seriously, if this was the end, I'd be fairly content. 

I'm not pleased with Michaela. Her and Asher both pissed me right off all episode. I realized that if either one of them got murdered, I probably wouldn't be that sad about it. Then again, they're ALL despicable people. It's just that people like Annalise and Connor are trying to be better people. Michaela turned Simon in without a blink. But Michaela is right; that is what the old Annalise would do. 

[FormerMod-a1]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

So Laurel did kill her mom?  What were those scratches on her arm?

Oh good, they did have it as kind of a mystery then.  I thought I had missed something since I didn't know how she got them either.

One point for Michaela - murder is worse than cheating, although she knew about that going in.  Big point against her - deporting Simon.

I wonder how long Jorge will be locked up?  You know he'll get out soon.  I wish I cared what happened to Laurel's mom.  

[showme]

So many questions!

Why did Frank pick up on Gabriel's name? Why did it ring a bell for him? Where had he heard that name before?

Is Gabriel Bonnie's son? Why is he half-black?

Is something going to happen to Laurel in the shower? Is she capable of murdering her own mother? and for what? I still don't know who killed Wes, was it Laurel's mother?

Will Laurel's father just stand there in Jail? I am sure a billionaire like him would have considerable resources to get him out?

Edited March 16, 2018 by showme

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Dang it, Michaela. I like her but what she did to Simon was cold. I should not be surprised but I am so disappointed. I cannot support that move by her esp cause Simon being deported back to Pakistan, esp being gay, is not good for him. Also IMO, Annalise was right about Michaela trying to be her. Asher was also right about Michaela not knowing herself.

Agreed on all of this.

At least she didn't kill him, though. When she was walking towards his hospital bed I was actually muttering, "No, no, no, Michaela, do not EVEN...."

Quote

So Gabriel is Bonnie's son, right? And the show is trying to do a fakeout that he is Annalise's child somehow...

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. 

And I too am puzzled by those scratches on Laurel's arm. I'm with those who think they're related to her mom going missing somehow. 

I liked Asher's reaction to Oliver asking him to be his best man :). And Annalise rocking Christopher at the end was sweet, too. 

Very odd note to end the season on. Curious to see what next season brings (I'm making the safe assumption the show will be renewed :D). 

[UNOSEZ]

Its gotta b bonnies kid… Frank could never come back to Anna if he had helped hide a baby.. Plus didn’t she hold the dead kid in her arms for quite some time.. Also she’s just putting Wes to rest.. They can’t throw that on her… Hopefully bonnies baby boy isn’t a stone cold psycho like mommy

9 minutes ago, showme said:

Is Gabriel Bonnie's son? Why is he half-black?

You have got to be shitting me... I can't even

[UGAmp]

With the promos making it sound like another shocking cliffhanger ending, I was watching the final ten minutes in absolute agony, convinced the twinkling music was just to throw us off and someone was about die. Frank about to get taken out by a sniper shot as he’s signing up for law school, Laurel having some complication from labor (she gasped for a second and I thought “this is it!”), some hitman showing up to Asher’s place, or lastly, Annalise dying from a heart attack (while holding adorable Christopher) after all the stress she’s endured from keeping everyone alive and out of jail over the last two years (and after her victory with her Supreme Court case nonetheless). And then... none of that happened.

Someone has a kid. Laurel may have killed someone. A little bit of a letdown to be frank (but I’m glad he’s still alive ;) )

Edited March 16, 2018 by UGAmp

[Shai617]

Am I the only one that think it’s Nate and Bonnie son? Call me crazy. I think they knew each other when Bonnie was young and in the judicial system. Far fetched possibly, but this show has so many twists and turns. 

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, Shai617 said:

Am I the only one that think it’s Nate and Bonnie son? Call me crazy. I think they knew each other when Bonnie was young and in the judicial system. Far fetched possibly, but this show has so many twists and turns. 

...I like this idea. I could see that.

@UGAmp , I totally thought somebody else would die or be hurt somehow in those last few minutes, too! Everyone just seemed way too content and happy :p. 

[project90]

I never like Asher and Michaela together so hope it the end of them

what Michaela did to Simon crawl but was means to an end he would be holding it over them

I did not click to that being Boonie son till came read peoples posts on here

Laurel getting her son back happy ending but don't know how work out plot wise unless he the id never see and it just Laurel mention drooping him with the nanny or something but given everything would she really be willing spend long time away from him be happy if Laurel written out feel her charterer had her time

 

Don't know about everyone else but I'd be OK with next season being the last

Edited March 16, 2018 by project90

[tennisgurl]

So, things actually ended on a pretty happy note, which is kind of a shocking twist in and of itself. I mean, for this show anyway. Most of the gang seems to be moving in positive directions for once, with Frank and Connor going back to school, Oliver and Conner planning their wedding, Laurel getting her baby, Bonnie being ready for a healthy relationship, Asher gets Wes`s old place, and Annalise is a national hero and legal superstar who gets to be involved in the life of her surrogate sons baby. I swear, I waited the whole last five minutes for someone to drop dead, everyone was way too happy.

AND YET its not over. Michaela has gone full on old Annalise, having Simon deported (which, yeah Simon was a dick, but that was ICE cold. Pun intended) and her relationship with Asher is over for now, Laurel may have killed her mom, her dad is down but not out, Nate is still keeping tabs on the gang, and some new mystery kid is on the scene. Who do we know who could have a college age kid, and possibly has amazing cheek bones? I assume we will get a renewal, so I guess we will find out next year! What do you bet the next murder flash forwards will be at Conner and Olivers wedding? 

The ending with Annalise singing to tiny Christof was adorable. Actually there were a lot of sweet moments this week, like Oliver asking Asher to be his best man, and Ashers super happy reaction, Annalises expression when she won the lawsuit, her big speech about second chances as the gang tries to make positive steps in their screwed up lives, Oliver's supportive reaction when Connor admired he flunked out of school, and even when Michaela came by Conners and asked if he thought she was evil, and he just said that they could all be evil sometimes and invited her in. Michaela throwing Simon under the bus was awful, but it was still a nice gesture, especially considering how much awful stuff everyone has done. 

I do think first season Annalise would have done what Michaelia did, but she has gone through a LOT, and knows that being that level of ruthless has only lead to sadness and pain for her, and I think she really does want to do better, and she does want better for her ducklings, and wants to be a good example for them, and not see them all end up going through all the crap she did. 

If this is the end of the show, its a solid ending, but I would be happy to have another season as well. There are still questions to be answered, and I dont think the story is fully out of steam yet. 

[Happytobehere]

18 minutes ago, showme said:

Is Gabriel Bonnie's son? Why is he half-black?

Is something going to happen to Laurel in the shower? Is she capable of murdering her own mother? and for what? I still don't know who killed Wes, was it Laurel's mother?

If Bonnie’s son, he’s black becuase his father is black.  If Annalise’s son, he looks black even though his father is white.

I think we are to assume that Laurel’s mother called in the murder to Jorge who actually ordered the hit.  I’m still not sure if that is the ultimate reveal. 

My question is regardless of whose son the boy is, why does Frank seem to know all about him and who was he calling. I’m hoping it’s Bonnie’s child because another betrayal in regards to Annalise’s son would be something the Frank character could never come back from.  

I personally would be fine with all the “kids” being gone next year if the show comes back (guess Viola only committed to four seasons as reports indicate the ratings are fine) and a new group of kids come into play. Even if Annalise does not return to teaching, Frank could be the connection to the new kids.

[Shai617]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

...I like this idea. I could see that.

@UGAmp , I totally thought somebody else would die or be hurt somehow in those last few minutes, too! Everyone just seemed way too content and happy :p. 

This is how sick and twisted this shoe has me, I felt the same way...will this end on a happy note? Why is no one dead or dying!!!?!? It’s nice to end on a happy note (I think).  I just wish I knew where those marks came from and who’s son is that? Frank is so ride or die. He always gets called on to find out some craziness!!

[UGAmp]

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

AND YET its not over. Michaela has gone full on old Annalise, having Simon deported (which, yeah Simon was a dick, but that was ICE cold. Pun intended)

Hahaha. I unliked your post just so I could like it again solely for this pun. :) 

[RedheadZombie]

I'm sure the kid is Bonnie's.  Why else show Nate reading Bonnie's file, and the note pondering if the child is alive?  Frank would have known because he probably knows everything about Bonnie, just like Annalise, and was possibly already working with Annalise when Bonnie came along.

I've never liked Michaela.  I certainly don't like her now.

[colorbars]

Yeah, Frank knowing about Bonnie's kid wouldn't surprise me. I can totally picture Sam (and Annalise) making a point to look into if the baby she discussed on the stand (and presumably in therapy) was actually dead or not and finding him. And we know Frank was their loyal solider, doing what they want without question. He probably helped locate the kid all those years ago, in fact.

5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Its gotta b bonnies kid… Frank could never come back to Anna if he had helped hide a baby.. Plus didn’t she hold the dead kid in her arms for quite some time.. Also she’s just putting Wes to rest.. They can’t throw that on her… Hopefully bonnies baby boy isn’t a stone cold psycho like mommy

You have got to be shitting me... I can't even

Annalise had her son when? It was only about 10 years ago or something, right? It's definitely not the stillborn son she had after the car crash, that's for sure. And I find it hard to believe that with how important that loss has been to Annalise over the course of the show, and how hard we saw her and Sam trying to get pregnant back in the day, that they wouldn't have mentioned her having a son prior to that one.

5 hours ago, Shai617 said:

Am I the only one that think it’s Nate and Bonnie son? Call me crazy. I think they knew each other when Bonnie was young and in the judicial system. Far fetched possibly, but this show has so many twists and turns. 

If Nate is the father, then I'd think it's because he raped her, which would be awful. We know she had a baby at 15 (I'd say the ages match up) and she didn't know who the father was because she was being raped by multiple men. I'm not sure I'd buy she's had two babies. The only reason I could entertain the possibility of them going this route with Nate would be the fact that they just spent time showing us who his father was (which also served to remind us how little we know of him) and I thought the scene with Bonnie this episode, where he said Denver didn't have a file on him, probably because he's "too boring" was a bit strange and had me waiting for something shady about him to come up. But that being said, I cannot imagine they'd do that to Nate's character and Bonnie referred to all the males raping her as "men" and while we don't know how much older Nate is than Bonnie, I feel like it can't be so much so that he would've been a man/old enough to be running with congressmen/councilmen when she was 15.

Edited March 16, 2018 by colorbars

[pennben]

If someone asked me the plotlines from the beginning of this show to today, no way on god's green earth could I connect them to show how we ended up here. Hell, I'm not sure I can even fully explain why Laurel's parents killed Wes or other things that happened this season! Regardless, this show just makes me giggle with glee as it just runs and runs and runs through ridiculousness!  

Edited March 16, 2018 by pennben

[NUguy514]

Having Simon, a gay man, deported back to Pakistan is unforgivable, for me at least.  I never, ever liked Simon, but he was only the victim in all of this insanity.  So, Michaela, girl:

She's dead to me.

John Hensley is a terrible actor.

I actually started to believe Jorge that Laurel is unstable because he seemed so sincere and committed to it and because, you know...Laurel.

I love me some Tegan.  I hope she sticks around.

[nilyank]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

At least she didn't kill him, though. When she was walking towards his hospital bed I was actually muttering, "No, no, no, Michaela, do not EVEN.

She might as well have. Simon is going to be tortured for being a gay man and his suffering is all on her. That was straight up evil. And I don't really agree that Annalise  would have done in a previous version of herself. Because unlike her students, her first option isn't murder. She would have discredited him and sent him to prison as a last resort but not back to Pakistan.

In the news report, they said that Jorge was a millionaire which doesn't track with all the power that they hinted he had prior to this episode.

[Chicago Redshirt]

OG AK framed Nate, the man she loved-ish, for her husband's murder. She framed one of her own clients for murder. And she framed Eggs for drugs, if I'm remembering correctly.

So I have no hesitation to think that she would frame Simon, the guy who plastered her picture all over campus with the word KILLER on it, for charges that would get him deported.

I think the notion that he would be out in Pakistan is somewhat overblown. He's not getting deported for being gay in possession of a gun. The only people who know he's gay are Our Heroes, as far as we know. And maybe they told someone in the local PD. No reason to think that ICE is going to include Simon's gayness in their reports, even if they know. 

Sucks that he would have to live closeted and to watch his words, but there's no inherent reason to think that the Pakistan authorities would know that Simon is gay.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Chicago Redshirt

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, nilyank said:

In the news report, they said that Jorge was a millionaire which doesn't track with all the power that they hinted he had prior to this episode.

I'd have to go back and listen, but I thought they said that Jorge was a billionaire. 

[skotnikov]

10 hours ago, Jeopardy15 said:

Soooooo, who cute son is that?

Annalise's?  Because we definitely need another Wes next season. 

[skotnikov]

9 hours ago, project90 said:

Don't know about everyone else but I'd be OK with next season being the last

I'd be ok if that would be the series finale. Nowak with his "I don't know what to do next" murdered his own show last season already. Nothing makes sense anymore, everything begins and ends abruptly, plot holes are as huge as black holes, stolen and abandoned kids are everywhere, and we're heading to a big gay wedding, because what else you can centre your show around if there's literally nothing else left?    

[project90]

12 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

I'd be ok if that would be the series finale. Nowak with his "I don't know what to do next" murdered his own show last season already. Nothing makes sense anymore, everything begins and ends abruptly, plot holes are as huge as black holes, stolen and abandoned kids are everywhere, and we're heading to a big gay wedding, because what else you can centre your show around if there's literally nothing else left?    

everything to up in the air I'd be cool with it ending there if was not for whole who the kid and what happen to Laurel mum don't like shows with out an ending but in saying that if that was the end would not be as disappointed as i could be

Edited March 16, 2018 by project90

[wanderingstar]

I am so disappointed in Michaela for what she did to Simon. That was vile, and it wasn't even necessary. Ugh!

So, is that new kid (Gabriel?) Bonnie's long lost son? 

Asher was on my nerves with his petty comments toward and about Michaela. You are not the first man to get cheated on by his girlfriend, so simmer down.

Jorge was defeated way too easily.

Kind of a subdued ending, but it was a nice change of pace not to be stressed while watching the last 5 minutes.

[showme]

Get real! If Simon is working at a law firm in the US, then he either has a work visa or he is a legal immigrant. In either case, ICE can't touch him. What Michaela did wouldn't happen in the real world.

Besides, since nobody knows Simon is gay, he would NOT be tortured back in his home country. Since he can afford law school in the US, his family in Pakistan is likely rich and powerful, he will be fine.

[skotnikov]

1 hour ago, project90 said:

everything to up in the air I'd be cool with it ending there if was not for whole who the kid and what happen to Laurel mum don't like shows with out an ending but in saying that if that was the end would not be as disappointed as i could be

 

Do you really care who the kid is? Obviously they look for a Wes substitute since  viewers started abandon the ship  after they killed off Wes. I think the logic is like "let's have another cute Afro-American guy with puppy eyes and see what'll happen". The kid has no other purpose, really. Re: Laurel's mother. Is it really that interesting? She'll be forgotten by writers by the 2nd episode of the next season (if there is one).      

Edited March 16, 2018 by skotnikov

[showme]

Quote

I think the "out" was that as a DACA candidate, he needed to keep his a spotless criminal record and ICE was deporting him based on being criminally implicated in this case.

DACA has nothing to do with Simon, he is not a child immigrant brought to the US by his parents. Also ICE can't revoke somone's legal immigration status just because they are "implicated" in a criminal case, they have to be convicted, and then an immigration court/judge will rule. ICE is only the enforcement arm, they can't do anything before the court has decided on Simon's legal status.

[SuzieQ]

11 hours ago, Shai617 said:

Am I the only one that think it’s Nate and Bonnie son? Call me crazy. I think they knew each other when Bonnie was young and in the judicial system. Far fetched possibly, but this show has so many twists and turns. 

That was the first thing I thought when I saw him.  THAT would be a great twist!

[showme]

2 minutes ago, doram said:

He is. I thought that was made quite clear in an earlier episode. 

Are you sure? Which episode? What is his story?

If he is DACA covered, even more reason he won't deported unless he is convicted in the court of law. Just being accused is not enough for ICE to take action. 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Obviously they look for a Wes substitute since  viewers started abandon the ship  after they killed off Wes.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think there's some merit to this idea. The first thing I thought when the camera panned to Gabriel was, uh-oh, it's Wes 2.0. Which is...disappointing.

[Empress1]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, things actually ended on a pretty happy note, which is kind of a shocking twist in and of itself. I mean, for this show anyway. Most of the gang seems to be moving in positive directions for once, with Frank and Connor going back to school, Oliver and Conner planning their wedding, Laurel getting her baby, Bonnie being ready for a healthy relationship, Asher gets Wes`s old place, and Annalise is a national hero and legal superstar who gets to be involved in the life of her surrogate sons baby. I swear, I waited the whole last five minutes for someone to drop dead, everyone was way too happy.

AND YET its not over. Michaela has gone full on old Annalise, having Simon deported (which, yeah Simon was a dick, but that was ICE cold. Pun intended) and her relationship with Asher is over for now, Laurel may have killed her mom, her dad is down but not out, Nate is still keeping tabs on the gang, and some new mystery kid is on the scene. Who do we know who could have a college age kid, and possibly has amazing cheek bones? I assume we will get a renewal, so I guess we will find out next year! What do you bet the next murder flash forwards will be at Conner and Olivers wedding? 

The ending with Annalise singing to tiny Christof was adorable. Actually there were a lot of sweet moments this week, like Oliver asking Asher to be his best man, and Ashers super happy reaction, Annalises expression when she won the lawsuit, her big speech about second chances as the gang tries to make positive steps in their screwed up lives, Oliver's supportive reaction when Connor admired he flunked out of school, and even when Michaela came by Conners and asked if he thought she was evil, and he just said that they could all be evil sometimes and invited her in. Michaela throwing Simon under the bus was awful, but it was still a nice gesture, especially considering how much awful stuff everyone has done. 

I do think first season Annalise would have done what Michaelia did, but she has gone through a LOT, and knows that being that level of ruthless has only lead to sadness and pain for her, and I think she really does want to do better, and she does want better for her ducklings, and wants to be a good example for them, and not see them all end up going through all the crap she did. 

If this is the end of the show, its a solid ending, but I would be happy to have another season as well. There are still questions to be answered, and I dont think the story is fully out of steam yet. 

I thought the best line in the episode was when Annalise told Michaela that that level of ruthlessness had nearly killed her, and Michaela's not Annalise.

I loved Asher's reaction to being asked to be Oliver's best man. "BESTIE!" That was very cute. As was Annalise telling Christopher that she was his godmother, if Laurel will get off her ass to ask her, as was Annalise singing to Christopher.

Glad Tegan emerged unscathed. I hope there's more of her. I love her outfits and her berry lipstick.

While no one in Pakistan knows that Simon is gay or bi, it's still profoundly fucked up to have someone deported.Random question: what year are the students in? And frankly, I'm surprised that Connor is the only one who flunked out. Weren't they all at the bottom of their class because they spent all their time dealing with Annalise's fuckery?

The cute prospective law student is Bonnie's son, I think. I don't care what happened to Laurel's mother, even if Laurel did kill her. I won't miss Lolita Davidovich's coming and going French accent.

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, doram said:

For the record, I resent this path the show put Michaela on. Having the dark-skinned black girl turn into / want to become as manipulative and morally compromised as the dark-skinned black woman is not the kind of representation I enjoy watching.

But I can't pretend that I particularly feel sorry for Simon in this situation. He manufactured a personal vendetta against Annalisse and the K5 and he went out of his way to antagonize them because of ... I dunno... petty jealousy, his own insecurities, whatever... Basically, he went out of his way to  make enemies of people he already believed were unscrupulous and immoral when he literally had more important things to worry about. Which was, to put it very, very mildly - stupid and to quote Agatha Christie: stupidity is the one crime that never goes unpunished. 

Last season folks hated Simon and probably didn't care what the hell would happen to him.  Today it's "poor Simon."  I don't get it.   I don't get why folks are so focused on what Michaela did, when the rest of them are pretty awful.  Asher killed someone and everybody seems to have forgotten that.  

I don't feel sorry for Simon at all.  He shouldn't have done what he did to Annalise.  Had he not been a jealous asshole, he probably wouldn't have ended up the way he did.  What Michaela did might not have been nice and kind, but as she told Annalise, she did what she had to do to keep the rest of them safe, which was why Annalise really didn't have much to say to her.

As for her being morally compromised, well, all of them are.  I mean, Laurel probably killed her own mother.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Neurochick

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Having Simon, a gay man, deported back to Pakistan is unforgivable, for me at least.  I never, ever liked Simon, but he was only the victim in all of this insanity.  So, Michaela, girl:

She's dead to me.

John Hensley is a terrible actor.

I actually started to believe Jorge that Laurel is unstable because he seemed so sincere and committed to it and because, you know...Laurel.

I love me some Tegan.  I hope she sticks around.

I did not realize he was the kid from Nip/Tuck.  He used to be gorgeous, now he's a total weasel.

[wanderingstar]

38 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get why folks are so focused on what Michaela did, when the rest of them are pretty awful. 

Can't speak for anyone else, but I know that Michaela getting Simon deported hit close to home for me because I know several people who have been deported in a similar way - not for being charged with anything, but just for being "implicated." It's unjust af, and I can't really be objective about it. Yeah, Simon was a dick, but the charges against him had been dropped, so he was unlikely to say anything about what happened, as he'd be keen to keep away from any criminal activity given his immigration status.

And I say this as someone who has loved Michaela since the first episode of this show. But just because I love the character, doesn't mean I can excuse or justify everything she does.

[Lady Calypso]

54 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Last season folks hated Simon and probably didn't care what the hell would happen to him.  Today it's "poor Simon."  I don't get it.   I don't get why folks are so focused on what Michaela did, when the rest of them are pretty awful.  Asher killed someone and everybody seems to have forgotten that.  

I don't feel sorry for Simon at all.  He shouldn't have done what he did to Annalise.  Had he not been a jealous asshole, he probably wouldn't have ended up the way he did.  What Michaela did might not have been nice and kind, but as she told Annalise, she did what she had to do to keep the rest of them safe, which was why Annalise really didn't have much to say to her.

As for her being morally compromised, well, all of them are.  I mean, Laurel probably killed her own mother.

Well, for me, it's not so much feeling bad for Simon (though deporting him does suck) as much as what it does to Michaela as a character. Granted, I've grown to dislike a lot of these characters for different reasons (I only like Annalise and Connor at this point), but this was a line that Michaela hadn't crossed until now. I didn't like Annalise much in the earlier seasons when she was ruthless in protecting herself and Wes (and I guess the Keating 4). Annalise has grown since then, which has made me like her more. But now Michaela's willingly sacrificing others to save their little group. I know this TV show is about these core characters so we shouldn't want anything bad happening to them, but what makes them so special that they need to sacrifice other people so easily? 

And I guess that's something that I've always had trouble getting past with this show. I still enjoy the show enough to keep watching, but there's always that barrier with how selfish these characters are. They really do all suck really bad. But Michaela's just the most recent character who has done a very bad thing. Did she kill him? No, so she's one upped people like Asher, Bonnie, and Frank, but would she have killed Simon if deportation wasn't an option? I think she might have, actually. 

It's just a shame that Michaela's gotten to this point where she can turn on someone and ruin his life. Is Simon a good guy? No, not really. He's done some despicable things. But he's getting deported not for a crime that he even did, but a crime that he was framed for. If he was getting deported for crimes he committed, then that would be a different story (if I'm wrong about this, please feel free to correct me; I can't quite remember season 3 as well as I should). 

And I've been a quiet Michaela fan all series. But this season? Particularly, this second half? Nah, she hasn't edged out Laurel in that category (or even the now dead Wes), but she's up there near them now. 

[RedheadZombie]

I've never hated Simon, maybe because I like the actor?  I've never liked Michaela, even though I can respect someone blindly ambitious and who doesn't accept the social position they were born into.  The actor is gorgeous and I'm pleased she's gotten a makeup contract, but I just don't care for the character. 

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, for me, it's not so much feeling bad for Simon (though deporting him does suck) as much as what it does to Michaela as a character. Granted, I've grown to dislike a lot of these characters for different reasons (I only like Annalise and Connor at this point), but this was a line that Michaela hadn't crossed until now. I didn't like Annalise much in the earlier seasons when she was ruthless in protecting herself and Wes (and I guess the Keating 4). Annalise has grown since then, which has made me like her more. But now Michaela's willingly sacrificing others to save their little group. I know this TV show is about these core characters so we shouldn't want anything bad happening to them, but what makes them so special that they need to sacrifice other people so easily? 

And I guess that's something that I've always had trouble getting past with this show. I still enjoy the show enough to keep watching, but there's always that barrier with how selfish these characters are. They really do all suck really bad. But Michaela's just the most recent character who has done a very bad thing. Did she kill him? No, so she's one upped people like Asher, Bonnie, and Frank, but would she have killed Simon if deportation wasn't an option? I think she might have, actually. 

It's just a shame that Michaela's gotten to this point where she can turn on someone and ruin his life. Is Simon a good guy? No, not really. He's done some despicable things. But he's getting deported not for a crime that he even did, but a crime that he was framed for. If he was getting deported for crimes he committed, then that would be a different story (if I'm wrong about this, please feel free to correct me; I can't quite remember season 3 as well as I should). 

And I've been a quiet Michaela fan all series. But this season? Particularly, this second half? Nah, she hasn't edged out Laurel in that category (or even the now dead Wes), but she's up there near them now. 

It does seem a little hypocritical that out of the Keating 5, only Oliver objected to Frank "taking care of" Simon, but everyone being horrified that Michaela had him deported.  But Michaela has always been about her ambition, and it makes sense that she was the one who would sacrifice an outsider.

[Keepitmoving]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Last season folks hated Simon and probably didn't care what the hell would happen to him.  Today it's "poor Simon."  I don't get it.   I don't get why folks are so focused on what Michaela did, when the rest of them are pretty awful.  Asher killed someone and everybody seems to have forgotten that.  

I don't feel sorry for Simon at all.  He shouldn't have done what he did to Annalise.  Had he not been a jealous asshole, he probably wouldn't have ended up the way he did.  What Michaela did might not have been nice and kind, but as she told Annalise, she did what she had to do to keep the rest of them safe, which was why Annalise really didn't have much to say to her.

As for her being morally compromised, well, all of them are.  I mean, Laurel probably killed her own mother.

 

And that's the issue here. Not that the black girl Is morally compromised as someone else posted, Asher murdered an innocent woman in cold blood, they all cheat, they all cover up murders, you name it.

The issue is that Mickey not be judged any harsher than the rest who have done about the same or worse. Stop looking for her to do the right thing Or be some voice of reason. I'm ok with that evil gleam she gets in her eyes, it's scary and you hardly ever see a black female character playing that angle. They're the friend, sexless, and annoyingly morally superior and that's BS. 

Poor Simon my ass. She's right he would have held it over there heads.  I actually think she's worse than Anna because she's had to be, given how she grew up. Anna at least had a loving mother and a sister she seems close enough to. Her home looked nice despite her pervy uncle who messed with her. 

Meanwhile, given Mickey's start one would say she never had a chance. Asher is right she needs to give in to who she is, own it and NEVER apologize for it.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Keepitmoving

[NUguy514]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Last season folks hated Simon and probably didn't care what the hell would happen to him.  Today it's "poor Simon."  I don't get it.   I don't get why folks are so focused on what Michaela did, when the rest of them are pretty awful.  Asher killed someone and everybody seems to have forgotten that.  

I don't feel sorry for Simon at all.  He shouldn't have done what he did to Annalise.  Had he not been a jealous asshole, he probably wouldn't have ended up the way he did.  What Michaela did might not have been nice and kind, but as she told Annalise, she did what she had to do to keep the rest of them safe, which was why Annalise really didn't have much to say to her.

As for her being morally compromised, well, all of them are.  I mean, Laurel probably killed her own mother.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm more angered that Michaela had Simon deported than I would've been if she'd killed him.  Part of the reason is because I'm gay myself, and the thought of someone deliberately having a gay person (who may be an asshole but isn't actually a criminal) deported to Pakistan makes my blood boil.  Now, Pakistan may not put LGBT people to death, but Simon will be unable to live a full life in which he can be true to himself and what he wants and loves; it's honestly a worse punishment than death, and no one – not even Simon – deserves that.  I know, I know, fictional character, yadda yadda yadda, but this one is just a little too real for me, as others have stated.

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's just a shame that Michaela's gotten to this point where she can turn on someone and ruin his life. Is Simon a good guy? No, not really. He's done some despicable things. But he's getting deported not for a crime that he even did, but a crime that he was framed for. If he was getting deported for crimes he committed, then that would be a different story (if I'm wrong about this, please feel free to correct me; I can't quite remember season 3 as well as I should). 

And I've been a quiet Michaela fan all series. But this season? Particularly, this second half? Nah, she hasn't edged out Laurel in that category (or even the now dead Wes), but she's up there near them now. 

Yeah, basically this.  Regardless of his libelous campaign against Annalise last season, in this particular instance, Simon didn't do anything wrong.  And I'm very bothered by what the writers have done to Michaela as a character the last several episodes.

[Neurochick]

32 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

And that's the issue here. Not that the black girl Is morally compromised as someone else posted, Asher murdered an innocent woman in cold blood, they all cheat, they all cover up murders, you name it.

The issue is that Mickey not be judged any harsher than the rest who have done about the same or worse. Stop looking for her to do the right thing Or be some voice of reason. I'm ok with that evil gleam she gets in her eyes, it's scary and you hardly ever see a black female character playing that angle. They're the friend, sexless, and annoyingly morally superior and that's BS. 

Poor Simon my ass. She's right he would have held it over there heads.  I actually think she's worse than Anna because she's had to be, given how she grew up. Anna at least had a loving mother and a sister she seems close enough to. Her home looked nice despite her pervy uncle who messed with her. 

Meanwhile, given Mickey's start one would say she never had a chance. Asher is right she needs to give in to who she is, own it and NEVER apologize for it.

Bravo.  I don't get why Michaela is judged harsher than everybody else.

If Simon wasn't gay, would people feel bad about what Michaela did?  To me, him being gay came out of left field, we just found out this season.  I sense people felt more for him when they found that out, even though he'd done all kinds of shit to Annalise.  

I liked that Michaela reminded Asher that he did murder someone, so let's not get on a moral high horse Asher.  Sure, Michaela cheated, but shit, you're a murderer, who has never even been caught.

My UO is I think this was a great SERIES finale.  I think the show should end now.  Annalise has done a great thing, she's come full circle.  Michaela is the new Annalise, and she's embracing it.  Connor and Oliver will get married and Asher, who's living in Laurel's old apartment will be the best man.  Laurel might have killed her mother, or maybe not, but she knows something, she's finally got her son.  Nate knows all their secrets.  Bonnie is looking for love in the right places, and maybe she has a son (but who's the father?).  I think the show can go out on this note or...

Maybe they'll do like CBS did with The Good Wife.  They created a spin off and put it on streaming.  Maybe this show can continue without Annalise.  We shall see.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm trying to recall exactly the words that Simon used as he lay in the hospital bed.  Michaela told him the deal when he awoke, and explained that she was there to comfort him and get him anything he needed, but, he wouldn't have any of it and pointblank challenged her.  Well, when you are not in the driver's seat you need to think about threatening people.  Michaela wasn't being mean spirited.  This was SELF PRESERVATION. He was foolish for not realizing that.  And he was foolish to push her, in light of his precarious situation. 

[secnarf]

20 hours ago, showme said:

Is Gabriel Bonnie's son? Why is he half-black?

Well, it's obviously not from Bonnie...

 

Am I missing something here? What is going to stop Simon from shouting from the rooftops what really happened that night? He can try to cut a deal with ICE to stay in the country, maybe try that whistleblower angle, apply for refugee status, etc. I don't see how reporting him to ICE to get him deported solves anything.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

I did not click to that being Boonie son till came read peoples posts on here

I didn't pick up on that either and still don't understand what the speculation is based on. Do we have reason to think Bonnie had a kid by a Black man? Whatever, don't get too excited by the guy playing Gabriel. He recently left after a couple of years on The Bold and the Beautiful where he was a terrible actor even by soap standards. (Soaps are where a lot people get hired only for their looks on the usually mistaken belief that they can be taught to act later.)

Do we know whether the show is being renewed? Seems odd it hasn't been announced yet.

[wanderingstar]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

It does seem a little hypocritical that out of the Keating 5, only Oliver objected to Frank "taking care of" Simon, but everyone being horrified that Michaela had him deported.

This is a good point. If I remember correctly, it was the supposedly reformed Connor who suggested they send Frank into Simon's room with a pillow. 

Quote

Am I missing something here? What is going to stop Simon from shouting from the rooftops what really happened that night? He can try to cut a deal with ICE to stay in the country, maybe try that whistleblower angle, apply for refugee status, etc. I don't see how reporting him to ICE to get him deported solves anything.

He could, but my sense is that even if the show is renewed, they are kind of done with the Simon character. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Gillian Rosh

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm trying to recall exactly the words that Simon used as he lay in the hospital bed.  Michaela told him the deal when he awoke, and explained that she was there to comfort him and get him anything he needed, but, he wouldn't have any of it and pointblank challenged her.  Well, when you are not in the driver's seat you need to think about threatening people.  Michaela wasn't being mean spirited.  This was SELF PRESERVATION. He was foolish for not realizing that.  And he was foolish to push her, in light of his precarious situation. 

Eh, she was total bitch for bragging how good she is at yelling at nurses.  We're in the business of saving people, unlike this group.

[secnarf]

43 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I didn't pick up on that either and still don't understand what the speculation is based on. Do we have reason to think Bonnie had a kid by a Black man? Whatever, don't get too excited by the guy playing Gabriel. He recently left after a couple of years on The Bold and the Beautiful where he was a terrible actor even by soap standards. (Soaps are where a lot people get hired only for their looks on the usually mistaken belief that they can be taught to act later.)

Do we know whether the show is being renewed? Seems odd it hasn't been announced yet.

The speculation is based on the editing - they show Nate looking at Bonnie's file, with a note about the child, along with the scenes at Middleton with Gabriel and Frank.