S08.E09: Honor

[peach]

3 minutes ago, gatopretoNYC said:

TAINTED MEAT! TAINTED MEAT! AHAHAHAHA!

Good times, good times.

2 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I don't even LIKE Shane or Lori, and yet I call BS on them not being there. LOL

I also said that! (to myself).  This person has a funny twitter page where they take photos of Tiny Daryl all over, and poses the figures in funny ways.  Maybe they don't have a Tiny Shane or Tiny Lori.  Tweeted tonight:  "You know what can't die?  Action figures.  Tiny Carl forever."  lol

[catrox14]

Was Chandler singing that song at the beginning?

[Rosiejuliemom]

7 minutes ago, peach said:

The can of pudding is a nice touch!

 

7 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I don't even LIKE Shane or Lori, and yet I call BS on them not being there. LOL

They're banging in the bathroom. Give 'em five minutes.

[diebartdie]

59 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought that in the past, the process of turning for those who were bitten happened fairly quickly.  Has it ever taken someone as long to succumb as it did Carl?

Andrea's sister in season one took almost 24 hours.

[peach]

2 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

They're banging in the bathroom. Give 'em five minutes.

HAHAHA!  Dead!

[Rosiejuliemom]

2 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

Andrea's sister in season one took almost 24 hours.

Jim took at least a day, if not more (especially since we never actually saw him die).

I think death and reanimation on this show depend on the speed of plot. 

[MichaelaRae]

6 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

The can of pudding is a nice touch!

 

They're banging in the bathroom. Give 'em five minutes.

And Shiva in the background!! I made the mistake of watching part of the marathon this afternoon and saw Shiva die again - and cried again.

[heisenberg]

1-  All that part like if they were in1942 london sewers made it akward for me.

2- I Don't mind guns and violence when it is required for a story, but that show turned into a NRA advertising campaign and I am getting sick of it more at each episode.

3- That non stopping preaching made me...  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...  

[diebartdie]

That might've been the saddest episode of this show ever. Like most folks here, I really did not like Coral for a long time. Of course, soon as I do like him, they kill him (in the dumbest way possible, I mean really). Crazy episode. I was quietly crying during most of the Coral scenes but all of Morgan's scenes I was just chilled to the bone, crazy Morgan is no joke. We dont know if Coral's vision will come true, it seems rather far fetched considering the track record of CDB but I do buy that part of his Utopian fantasy would be Negan toiling away in the garden, clearing working FOR Rick, not anyone's boss any more. Now do I really want that to happen? Honestly, right now, I really do want the Utopian vision to come true. Im sick of the grimdark KILL KILL KILL. Sick of the murder. Sick of the guns. Sick of the needless, pointless death. I want the show to change, I want the show to show that things CAN get better, that people CAN begin to love and stop hating, stop hurting. I think the show is very far off from its potential.....but I realize, Im probably in a very small minority. The real world that we all live in right now needs its art to begin showing a way out of the pain and darkness. This show above all others could be that show. I know it wont be though.

 

Now having said that, this is my favorite Coral quote ...

[Rosiejuliemom]

5 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

That might've been the saddest episode of this show ever. Like most folks here, I really did not like Coral for a long time. Of course, soon as I do like him, they kill him (in the dumbest way possible, I mean really). Crazy episode. I was quietly crying during most of the Coral scenes but all of Morgan's scenes I was just chilled to the bone, crazy Morgan is no joke. We dont know if Coral's vision will come true, it seems rather far fetched considering the track record of CDB but I do buy that part of his Utopian fantasy would be Negan toiling away in the garden, clearing working FOR Rick, not anyone's boss any more. Now do I really want that to happen? Honestly, right now, I really do want the Utopian vision to come true. Im sick of the grimdark KILL KILL KILL. Sick of the murder. Sick of the guns. Sick of the needless, pointless death. I want the show to change, I want the show to show that things CAN get better, that people CAN begin to love and stop hating, stop hurting. I think the show is very far off from its potential.....but I realize, Im probably in a very small minority. The real world that we all live in right now needs its art to begin showing a way out of the pain and darkness. This show above all others could be that show. I know it wont be though.

 

Now having said that, this is my favorite Coral quote ...

Damn it. Before I read this I wanted Negan's head on a pike. Now, part of me wants his head, but part of me wants what you said. A third part wants a sandwich.

I do agree with you. Part of my hiatus from this show was because I was having a hard time caring about anyone. Why should I bother caring about these characters when they will eventually be killed off for shock value or a cheap gut shot? It started feeling like I was more invested in the characters than the writers were. This story deserves better storytellers.

[AngelaHunter]

Okay, I had to watch. Don't be glum. Carl's ultimate sacrifice was not futile. Carl died so that ..err... what's his name again? Oh, yes - Sadiq, could live and join our crew. Thank goodness we didn't lose Sadiq too. I don't think I could have borne that. Sadiq knows all about non-steroidal antihistamines or something. Gee, the monloguing must be contagious. No sooner did Sadiq join CDB and he started in on one. Then we had "It's Always All About ME" Morgan (Glad to see his "All life is precious" preaching was just a phase) who hogged up twenty minutes as others monologued to try and prevent him from killing Gavin: He will, he won't, he will, he won't. Little Henry had enuf of yur bullshit and waffling, Morgan, and did it himself. 

The crazy flashes to the future with Rick looking like the Old Man of the Mountain wearing that Halloween surplus store beard while no else aged (they show Judith as a 6 year old so this is only about 4 years in the future) is getting beyond tiresome. And Negan there? I don't know what to say anymore. I wonder if Rick will hobble up to him everyday and say "I'm gonna kill you." Or maybe he forgets that Negan held his bat over Carl's head and would have murdered him if the Magic Attack Tiger hadn't shown up at the very last second. 

Is Judith mute? She never makes a sound or tries to say a single word. That crying she was doing was obviously not her. 

[Eulipian 5k]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

RIP Carl. That death went on WAY too long,

Did the writers really think they were good enough to carry a half hour death bed scene? Really? I can’t imagine any other writer in literature who did.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

My biggest struggle with TWD is that I can't freaking tell WTF is happening during the night scenes. I'm hate (half-)watching till the end of the season. I had to convince myself to actually bother watching this tonight, as my thoughts when I realized earlier this week that it was back again was, "ugh, already? It hasn't been a long enough break!", but I think this will be a show I will have to bow out of before its ultimate demise. This show needs to be put out of its misery like all the zombies still wandering around.

[catrox14]

OH FUCK OFF show. WHY would they ruin the whole episode by shoving fucking Negan in the end. UGH you stupid stupid, stupid, stupid dickbags.

There was so much emotional resonance. Rick was broken. And you fucking bring in Negan. UGH FUCK YOU.

sorry for that rant

[Tony]

Insane homicidal Morgan is soooo much more likable.

[Valmarmar]

Loved the montage on TD showing how Carl/Chandler changed as he grew up on the show.   I'll miss  "Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl !" and his "no boundaries" antics !!  RIP Carl.  Have a Fabulous life, Chandler.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Valmarmar
Make clearer.

[TrininisaScorp]

Morgan has no "the middle" in his operating system, then?  Geez...that was pretty amazingly gross with the intestines.

RIP Carl.  I hate that they killed him, but his last episode was well done.  I LOVE the fantasy sequence being what Carl wants to see, but I can't buy Negan being there.  Not one bit.  It really took my out of an otherwise decent episode.  I feel like I was complaining that we've been doing nothing but bloody tit for tat, so I'm hoping we can change the narrative to something better.

I like Siddiq; that actor really made you feel his guilt and resolve.  And we have a doctor type, again!  Don't let this one die or get taken, guys!

Poor Danai.  GF was off killing the game in Wakanda, only to come back to cry her heart out.  Michonne's pain was some of the most wrenching I've felt on the show.

[kelslamu]

So, does everyone know why Rick had blood on him while he was against the tree at the end?  I didn't get to see any previews or I missed something once again.  So, I've decided Carl tried to shoot himself and *somehow* missed.  So, Rick goes to see him after a bit and lo and behold Carl has turned and bit Rick.  Too much?? lol

[GreyBunny]

Carl really grew on me and I'm bummed he's no longer going to be on the show, but they really dragged things out far too long.  Toward the end I was thinking, "Just die already."

RIP Carl, you deserved better writers.

[thuganomics85]

Carl: "It’s not suppose to be like this.  It could be better."  Damn, Carl might have been dying, but the kid just describe this show perfectly!

The show is finally back, and sure enough, they make sure to drag things out again, and milk Carl's eventual death for all it is worth.  But, hey, at least they actually paid him tribute, while poor Glenn practically went out like a Red Shirt on Star Trek, and is barely mentioned.  I wish I could care more, but the show really ended up dropping the ball on him as a character.  I do feel bad for Michonne and Rick at least, and all of the scenes with the three were generally well-acted.

So, I know this makes me a bad person, but whenever Carol and Ezekiel were freaking out over Morgan going psycho on everyone, I was just thinking that I haven't liked Morgan this much in ages.  You do you, Morgan!  And now little Henry is getting in the action and takes out Gavin (a.k.a. the Savior who I only just learned his name now, but at least was kind of entertaining compared to the rest) also!  I loved Ezekiel's "What in the fuck?!" reaction, but I certainly also appreciated the brief shot of Morgan looking like a pissed off gamer, a'll "You stole my kill, you little shit!"

The Saviors escape a.k.a. Eugene's grand plan was simply shooting a bunch of walkers and making barriers?  That's anticlimactic.  Certainly proves that Daryl and Tara are no longer allowed to make any decisions anymore, until they are supervised by an adult (which, at this point, feels like would only be Michonne, Aaron, maybe Maggie, and Ezekiel when he isn't quoting Shakespeare.)

All the Old Man Rick scenes were just a dream of his about Carl's wish for a future paradise.  Which.... includes Old Man Negan.  Fuck you, The Walking Dead!

Edited February 26, 2018 by thuganomics85

[Smad]

3 hours ago, diebartdie said:

We dont know if Coral's vision will come true, it seems rather far fetched considering the track record of CDB but I do buy that part of his Utopian fantasy would be Negan toiling away in the garden, clearing working FOR Rick, not anyone's boss any more. Now do I really want that to happen? Honestly, right now, I really do want the Utopian vision to come true. Im sick of the grimdark KILL KILL KILL. Sick of the murder. Sick of the guns. Sick of the needless, pointless death. I want the show to change, I want the show to show that things CAN get better, that people CAN begin to love and stop hating, stop hurting. I think the show is very far off from its potential.....but I realize, Im probably in a very small minority. The real world that we all live in right now needs its art to begin showing a way out of the pain and darkness. This show above all others could be that show. I know it wont be though.

They should have been done with All Out War at the end of S7. S8 should have been about rebuilding after the war, kind of like in the real world. Where we have Hilltop/Kingdom/Alexandria peacefully co-existing, all specialized in different things and establishing trade and the like. It would have tightened up S7 without all the useless filler and S8 could have purely been about rebuilding and more importantly character work. They could have still done scavenging runs so we can see Zombie action and maybe run into a deranged human here or there.

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Insane homicidal Morgan is soooo much more likable.

Now imagine if we had this Morgan teamed up with S5-6A Carol back in S7. The Saviors would have been done by the S7 Mid-Season Finale. Sigh.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

*sniffle*  Shut up, I'm not crying.  You're crying.

I remember thinking for about 2-2.5 seasons into this, I would have cried tears of happiness to see that little shit punk get bit.  Now?  Way to make Carl one of the more tolerable ones before giving him the axe, Show.  F'ers.

Morgan and his Stick of Death got their groove thang on.   Liked the ripping of the guts out scene.  Visceral.

F this show for making me hate Carl for a few seconds before his final send off... what with the 'paradise' future!vision of Negan living there and even being all nicey and copacetic with Rick & his family?!  EFF THAT and EFF YOU, Show!!!!!   I appreciate JDM as an actor, but 'Negan' & his speeching is a new and tested/approved torture method.  Oh, the pain!

ETA:  If that final scene is a lead up to Rick being killed off at the end of the season, I'm officially out.   Despite his faults and script-induced plot armor &/or idiocy, Rick is the main character.  Carol would be about the only one [truly] worth watching (for me) if that does end up happening.

Edited February 26, 2018 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[dvil]

Where was Rick when he had the Negan fantasy? Stained glass hung from a tree and his right hand was bloody.

[BellyLaughter]

7 hours ago, Boofish said:

Rick tell your dying kid what he needs to hear and go out there all Warren G on them mfers and regulate. 

 

Negan being there was the fantasy of a dying kid who had misplaced his hope in humanity. I will give it a pass as long as it never ever happens for real. 

^^ This.  As much as I was annoyed by his presence initially I don’t see it as a flash forward.  It’s Carl’s fantasy of what he hoped his world could turn into.... granted it contains a naive vision of a man (Negan) who has lost all of his humanity but I guess you could tie that to Carl asking Rick to get his back....it was hopeful.  

Carl is a better person than me... I hope Negan burns in hell for Glenn and Abraham...

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Other than the emotions from watching Carl die, this was a pretty good episode - that is, until near the very end, when we just *had* to see a Negan cameo (even if just as figure in a future!perfect vision).

This goes more for a couple episodes (or so) back, but I'll tell you what;  you give me Carol and you can have the rest of the field.  Carol & I'll win.  She's such a badass, I love her.  Probably shouldn't say that too loud though, or she'll be the next major character to go Stage Fridge....

[bosawks]

Whelp, that's it, safe travels Coral.

I've been distancing myself from the show for a year or so and I'm not going to say I'm out but I'll probably DVR the rest of the season and catch up a few at a time for a little bit.

One show in and I need a break......

[CrashTextDummie]

6 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Is Judith mute? She never makes a sound or tries to say a single word. That crying she was doing was obviously not her. 

Pro tip for future TV creators: Don't put a toddler with no concept of what's going on into a scene that's supposed to have emotional impact. Oh who am I kidding they never learn. They only way it could have been more cringe-worthy would have been if they tried to CGI some emotional response into her face. I kinda wish they had. Then at least I could have laughed at it.

Speaking of: Gavin getting sneak-neck-staked by Henry (yes, I know their names now!) and Negan appearing in Paradise? Two of the most laugh-out-loud funny moments for me in the show's history. If it was by design to break up the misery with some comedy, I would say well done, but I have my doubts. I think there was supposed to be significance in intercutting Morgan's Terminator routine with Carl's sermon of peace, but to me it just came across as very shoddy directing. Literally laughable.

High points? Saddiq is a doctor and I liked the actor in this episode so the character turns out to have unexpected potential. I think that's it. Sorry, high point, singular.

In the end, Chandler Riggs did a pretty good job dying. I wasn't sure he had it in him. Rick's cry-face is such a common sight at this point that I fail to be impressed anymore though. I remember Andrew Lincoln absolutely breaking my heart when Lori died and it's sad I can't muster the same feelings for the character anymore.

[Anakerie]

I really would have loved a quick scene showing Carl in a hazy afterlife seeing his mother and running toward her. Yes, it's corny. Yes, it's cheesy. I still would have liked to see it. 

I also like to think Daryl is all "Screw this" and instead of taking Lil Ass-Kicker to the Hilltop, he just absconds with her and makes her his partner. They can ride around together on choppers killing Walkers and dispensing justice.  It would have to be a better show than this has become. 

So long, Carl Poppa. 

[sigmaforce86]

14 minutes ago, CrashTextDummie said:

Pro tip for future TV creators: Don't put a toddler with no concept of what's going on into a scene that's supposed to have emotional impact.

Well in her defense she also had to do flash future scene with Eugene; and since it takes an adult 20 minutes to parse has fifteen paragraph statements into the normal two sentences the rest of us would have used her brain may have still been occupied with deciphering what basically boiled down to "These cooked apples are gonna be great and since you're so helpful here's a fresh one for you".

I hate to say what I felt most this episode was boredom.  An extra half hour length mostly filled with goodbye speeches but I couldn't find the sad feeling in it probably because we've known for months he was going to die.  The shocker was the revealed bite - leaving the viewers hanging until the return gave plenty of time (for me at least) to be prepared for exactly what happened; goodbyes and a death.  Yes Chandler was great, he deserves a lot of credit for what he's done on the show especially this last episode.  Yes definitely there were moments with him and with the other characters that were really good and moved the story along.  But I felt like the episode was stretched with too much dialog and they could have done it in the normal hour without losing any emotional impact. 

Edited to add:  One thing I'd like to see though is Neegan's response, don't know if they'll include that but as much as I don't like the character I'd be interested to see what his public and private reaction to Carl's death is since they had a weird sort of bond and Neegan had a certain amount of respect for Carl.

Edited February 26, 2018 by sigmaforce86

[luna1122]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Was Chandler singing that song at the beginning?

It was Conor Oberst, of Bright Eyes. At the Bottom of Everything. He's one of my faves, and I love that song.

This was my last TWD episode. I watched to see Carl/Chandler off, and yeah, it made me cry. It was agonizing. He deserved so much better.

I was almost sorrowful over the idea of not continuing to watch, until fucking Negan and his stupid cornpone accent showed up in the hazy dreamy future tending to tomatoes, and greeting Judith. FUCK THAT GUY. I will only watch again when I read a spoiler that he is going to DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH. I'll come back for that.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I feel guilty that I didn’t like this episode. I wanted to ugly cry and have sad emotions. But it felt so heavy handed I half expected “What A Wonderful World” to start playing while Morgan, insane but happy, ripped guts out of a dummy in a padded cell surrounded by friends while Negan picks tomatoes and a jolly red clad Rick brings toys to the children of the world on Christmas Eve.

I’m glad that they didn’t pull a dumpster. But it was still a dumpster fire.

[tricknasty]

So the lead character's son, who we have watched grow up onscreen dies alone, off screen. And Negan is alive in Carl's version of the future? Fuck you writers. These writers are the fucking worst.

[CofCinci]

I don’t post much in here but I always read all the posts on a Monday morning.  It was something I looked forward to because the analysis was thoughtful and precise. In the past, there were 11-12 pages to read. Now, there are only 2 pages — and a major core character was killed off!!  I’m so fatigued by this show and I’m not the only one.  Where did this show wrong?

RIP Carl.

RIP TWD. 

[JackONeill]

The ones who suffered the most by this: Abraham and Glenn. It’s been so long (not in TV time) that does anyone even care anymore how brutally and visciously they were killed? Does it not matter how the audience was put through such shit by having to wait to find out who (and this was after the great Glenn-dumpster debacle) had been killed? Does it not matter how the audience was in such a froth for vengeance, only to watch several episodes where Rick — a man who had once bitten out the neck of someone — moped around in soiled pants?

And now, Carl dies. And now, we see Negan in some fantasy future with butterflies flirting around his head. 

This show has fucked with the audience since day 1. TPTB are incompetent assholes and, at least for me, they don’t deserve my attention.

Edited February 26, 2018 by JackONeill

[A-Lo]

Where's Maggie?

[nodorothyparker]

As shitty as I think the show has handled killing Carl at every turn and as colossally dumb as I think the decision is from a story point, by the hour mark I felt like Elaine Benes trapped into watching The English Patient:  Just die already.  Between all the meandering deathbed speeches and bright gauzy fantasies where you and you and Eugene and Negan are there too, it dragged on forever and was just too much.  Splitting it up into two parts over the break gave us too much time to think about it and already feel whatever we were going to feel about it.  And if we're supposed to have seen all of this and be thinking oh okay, so this is why Rick will spare the bat-wielding maniac so he can speechify on after bludgeoning two main characters to death and causing untold misery and death to countless others, it failed.  Carl is an OG character, son of the lead character who we've watched grow up on our screens and primary motivator for so much of what we've watched Rick do.  Yet his death wasn't even about him but about humoring some guy we just met with his "freeing souls" nonsense and of course, more Negan.

The other story at least had some movement.  I am mildly amused that as someone said in the live thread, they've dispensed with seasons of Morgan dithering back and forth between "all life is precious" and "kill 'em all" to have him go full Mortal Combat.  Too bad, Gavin.  You were the one mildly interesting Savior because at least you had some shading with your weary middle manager just completely over this shit schtick.  But you had to be a huge dick over a single melon and ended up a dead middle manager on a stick as a result.  I do love that even with the King persona pretty much dead and staring down some pretty horrific stuff, Ezekiel has been doing the flowery speech so long that he still lapses into it by default.  Don't ever change.

[AngelaHunter]

49 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

But it felt so heavy handed I half expected “What A Wonderful World” to start playing while Morgan, insane but happy, ripped guts out of a dummy in a padded cell surrounded by friends while Negan picks tomatoes and a jolly red clad Rick brings toys to the children of the world on Christmas Eve.

I think I might have enjoyed that show more. That would be wild and trippy, and what I watched was just boring. TPTB just don't know how to... well, do anything right, do they? Carl's death was supposed to elicit strong emotions, but once again it's obvious they have zero understanding of pacing or how to write anything except gross killing scenes. They dragged out the death so long, replete with perfect death-bed speeches and glowing fantasy sequences it completely lost its impact until even that was boring.

Going from Carl's "Try to Love One Another Right Now" to Morgan slaughtering everyone (with a stick!) was incredibly poorly done. Maybe someone on the writing crew rewatched the Godfather and got all hyped at the murdering alternating with the church scenes and thought, "Oh, wow. Cool! I can do that! Our viewers will be riveted by our artistry." No, you can't and no, we weren't.

26 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Does it not matter how the audience was in such a froth for vengeance, only to watch several episodes where Rick — a man who had once bitten out the neck of someone — moped around in soiled pants?

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time we saw Rick when his eyes were not swimming in tears. He used to TAKE action. Now he merely TALKS (and talks and talks) about taking action.  Yeah, no hesitation ripping out Joe's throat or hacking Gareth to bits with a machete, etc but now he lets cryptic garbage dwellers try to kill him twice and does nothing and as for Negan: Maybe the fanfic writers are onto something and Rick's got a "thing" for him just as Kirkman does and the repetitive and empty promise of "I'm gonna kill you" is some sort of weird foreplay.

30 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

TPTB are incompetent assholes

Yes. Yes, they are.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I made the mistake of watching part of the marathon this afternoon and saw Shiva die again - and cried again.

Every single time there's a WD marathon, I somehow turn on the TV right at the Herschel death. Seriously, every time. Luckily, I didn't have to see Shiva go again yesterday.

Edited February 26, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[peach]

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

I'm having a hard time remembering the last time we saw Rick when his eyes were not swimming in tears. He used to TAKE action. Now he merely TALKS (and talks and talks) about taking action.  Yeah, no hesitation ripping out Joe's throat or hacking Gareth to bits with a machete, etc but now he lets cryptic garbage dwellers try to kill him twice and does nothing and as for Negan: Maybe the fanfic writers are onto something and Rick's got a "thing" for him just as Kirkman does and the repetitive and empty promise of "I'm gonna kill you" is some sort of weird foreplay.

After watching the Carl Poppa video again, I've decided that when the Governor beat Rick into a coma (his second coma, mind you), that it caused lasting brain damage, because once inside Alexandria, he basically had a personality transplant, and also got much dumber.  Or maybe the writers have brain damage. 

45 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

I don’t post much in here but I always read all the posts on a Monday morning.  It was something I looked forward to because the analysis was thoughtful and precise. In the past, there were 11-12 pages to read. Now, there are only 2 pages — and a major core character was killed off!!  I’m so fatigued by this show and I’m not the only one.  Where did this show wrong?

RIP Carl.

RIP TWD. 

I thought the same thing.  Nobody even wants to talk about it, it's so depressing and poorly done. On TD, Chandler himself said when he read the script, he said, Omg, I have to say all this depressing stuff?  lol

The general consensus on Twitter, etc, seems to be that they killed the show along with Carl.  SO many people who somehow managed to stick with it after Glen's murder (and how it was ignored, as many have pointed out), are finally done now. 

[Jel]

My advice to the actors on this show is don't ever tell TPTB that you bought a house.  And fans, don't say you hate a character because said character will be shoved down your throat, syllable by syllable, until you can't take it anymore.  And just when he finally shuts up for a second, we get to see a vision of him in the future. It felt like a taunt.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Jel
Just noticed I typed through when i meant throat -- weird!

[Rosiejuliemom]

32 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

TPTB just don't know how to... well, do anything right, do they? Carl's death was supposed to elicit strong emotions, but once again it's obvious they have zero understanding of pacing or how to write anything except gross killing scenes.

I was comparing Carl's death to Lori's this morning. I honestly think Lori's pulled more emotion out of me and I didn't even like Lori all that much when she died. Her "Goodnight, love." still breaks my heart a little. The writing was simply better for Lori's death. Props to Chandler, Andrew, and Danai for elevating the material they were given last night far more than it deserved.

 

32 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Every single time there's a WD maraton, I somehow turn on the TV right at the Herschel death. Seriously, every time. Luckily, I didn't have to see Shiva go again yesterday.

Hershel's death is one of two scenes I refuse to watch again. The other is the Lucilling. Can't do it. Nope. I'm out.

 

28 minutes ago, peach said:

After watching the Carl Poppa video again, I've decided that when the Governor beat Rick into a coma (his second coma, mind you), that it caused lasting brain damage, because once inside Alexandria, he basically had a personality transplant, and also got much dumber.  Or maybe the writers have brain damage. 

The general consensus on Twitter, etc, seems to be that they killed the show along with Carl.  SO many people who somehow managed to stick with it after Glen's murder (and how it was ignored, as many have pointed out), are finally done now. 

See now, you come up with neat headcannons when you watch Carl Poppa. If I rewatch that video, all I do is spend the next hour telling my dog that she cannot handle the flow, son!

 

This show has always been dark as hell. Problem for me is that there don't seem to be any moments of levity at all anymore and that action sequences have seemingly taken the place of character development. I always liked the smaller moments where people were allowed to breathe for a minute and maybe crack a joke.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, peach said:

After watching the Carl Poppa video again, I've decided that when the Governor beat Rick into a coma (his second coma, mind you), that it caused lasting brain damage, because once inside Alexandria, he basically had a personality transplant, and also got much dumber.

Can I get a reminder of his other coma, please? I've been searching my very flawed memory banks and can't seem to recall it. 

True about Alexandria. He did turn into a swaggering, underhanded yet not overly bright bully, mooning after Jessie like a lovesick teenager, didn't he?

7 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

If I rewatch that video, all I do is spend the next hour telling my dog that she cannot handle the flow, son!

Heh! I always start calling my cat "Little Cookie Man." 

 

ETA: RE: Coma. You mean at the beginning in the hospital, right? Duh. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[TattleTeeny]

I love Carl Poppa so much!

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

Can I get a reminder of his other coma, please? I've been searching my very flawed memory banks and can't seem to recall it.

The Governor beat the shit out of him after he killed Hershel. I don't really remember if he was unconscious or just collapsed from exhaustion and stress. Seemed to last around a day or so. It was when Carl went and traded his shoe to a walker for 112 oz of pudding.

[AngelaHunter]

6 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

The Governor beat the shit out of him after he killed Hershel. I don't really remember if he was unconscious or just collapsed from exhaustion and stress.

Yes, that one I certainly remember. Rick's face after the Gov beat his ass and was choking him to death was unforgettable (little outmatched there, Ricky). Good episode. Hard to believe this is the same show as we're watching now. 

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, Tony said:

Insane homicidal Morgan is soooo much more likable.

My dream for TWD would be nothing but insane, homicidal Morgan and Terminus-era Carol wrecking shit. Everyone else can GTFO.

 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, I know this makes me a bad person, but whenever Carol and Ezekiel were freaking out over Morgan going psycho on everyone, I was just thinking that I haven't liked Morgan this much in ages.  You do you, Morgan! 

Same. Don't listen to them, Morgan!

[maystone]

I hate that Carl is gone, but I liked the episode. Poor Carl spent most of his dying alone or with Judith; his dad, Michonne, Daryl, Carol, Maggie, Enid- all off fighting. Really loved the big brother moments between Carl and Judith; passing that old beat-up hat down to Judith did have me reaching for a tissue, I gotta admit. It hit me that Michonne has now lost two children to the ZA; Carl may be her best friend, but we all know she felt a mother's love for him, too. Watching her and Rick dig Carl's grave just about broke me.

As to Negan ending up as a flannel-shirted farmer  - guys. It's been noted by several, this was a dying kid's fantasy of a perfect world that would exist if his dad just followed his (Carl's) wishes. But even if Rick tries his hardest to scale back his hatred of Negan, there are literally dozens of people who have Negan as #1 on their Need To Kill list. Whether Negan lives or dies is not up to Rick.

Carol being a badass will never grow old for me. I don't understand what's happening with Morgan, though. He's completely gone over the edge? It's his choice, like he's given up the struggle between killing when necessary and believing that "all lives are sacred?"

Henry hopefully is not the new Carl, but I did like the juxtaposition of Carl talking about killing that kid in cold blood and Henry taking out Gavin. (At least Henry had a reason, though.) And if Henry is the new Carl, then Ezekiel is the new Herschel? I hope not that literally, but I am interested to see how Zeke takes Henry in hand, and what his philosophy is of this new world.

[Anela]

I might look it up just for Morgan. My DVR has been messed up for a few months, so it didn't record the show, or Talking Dead. I still have no interest in watching the kid die. I do wonder how Judith has grown so much, and yet Maggie doesn't even have a baby bump. 

[iMonrey]

It speaks to how far the show has sunk in quality that I felt nothing watching Carl die. I'm just so pissed off they did this I can't get into the story. Gone are the days when I got an actual emotional gut-punch from a character death like Hershel or Sofia coming out of the barn. The show has lost its ability to affect me that way anymore.

I don't know if it's really nothing more than a cheap ratings ploy or if there's some sort of behind the scenes shenanigans that drove this decision but it was just a bad one. If they think the ratings are bad now wait and see how much further they fall. The show has been one wrong move after another for two seasons now. (Some would argue more than that, but the ratings have really plummeted with the introduction of Negan.) This is just the worst of the bad decisions so far, and that's saying a lot.

Edited February 26, 2018 by iMonrey

[luna1122]

38 minutes ago, maystone said:

 

As to Negan ending up as a flannel-shirted farmer  - guys. It's been noted by several, this was a dying kid's fantasy of a perfect world that would exist if his dad just followed his (Carl's) wishes. But even if Rick tries his hardest to scale back his hatred of Negan, there are literally dozens of people who have Negan as #1 on their Need To Kill list. Whether Negan lives or dies is not up to Rick.

 

 

I think we all know it's just a dying Carl's utopian wish for the world, because if Negan is tamed, he's not a threat to those Carl loves anymore. I didn't take it literally or as a vision of the real future. But the sight of that man's stupid face is enough to make me see red; he hasn't singlehandedly killed the show for me, but his fingerprints are sure all over the body. On an episode in which we lose a core character, a CHILD we watched grow up, the last thing we need to see is Negan's terrible face. And he somehow even managed to overact and scenery chew thru his one line. If Rick DOESN'T actually kill him, there is no balance or justice left in Zombieland.