Figure Skating

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, kili said:

Some were speculating that Adam should be hired on by NBC for the next Olympics...he was hired to work for NBC this Olympics. He will be working on television, digital and social media for NBC.

Way to make the most of an opportunity. 

And, I suspect, that, if he does well in this small opportunity, NBC will be open to using him in the future to provide color commentary.  Look at how Tara and Johnny started out and now they're at the Kentucky Derby, the Super Bowl and who knows where else, being paid by NBC to do their thing. Good for Adam!

[herbz]

If you follow the links, here's a rinkside view of the various Rhumba patterns and Choctaws of some of the top teams in practice this morning. V/M are the best, P/C hit their key points but she really needs to sort those wooden knees out, C/B shouldn't be getting anywhere near the podium with that, B/S are out of sync and need to stop pitching forward, and the Shibs cover more ice than the common narrative would allow you to believe they do but need to be careful not to go flat.

https://unintended-escape.tumblr.com/post/171014535907/practice-18-feb-chocktaws

Will be interesting/rage inducing to see how they're all scored.

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, herbz said:

Will be interesting/rage inducing to see how they're all scored.

I'm worried already that my favorites will be scored very unfavorably tonight (preparing myself for the worst) ;>(

[Shades of Red]

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see either Andrew Poje and Kaitlyn Weaver or Paul Poirier and Piper Gilles on the podium.  From the sounds of things, we're back to the shit that really hasn't gone away for judging.  I don't think either of these pairs are given the respect and marks they should.  I'm sure there are other couples out there as well who are more creative and deserving than some of the predestined podium pairs.  It would make me very happy if the judging tonight with the short is as hard as it seemed to be for the team event.  

For the Canadians on here, I'm not sure if any of the TSN channels are going to show this in its entirety as they have with the other skating events so far.  Not sure how much coverage CBC will give to this tonight either.  I like to see the lower ranked teams because you never know who you might discover or be watching at the beginning of a successful career.

[Tanichka]

20 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I'm worried already that my favorites will be scored very unfavorably tonight (preparing myself for the worst) ;>(

Same here.  The more things change, the more they stay the same!

[SeanC]

27 minutes ago, Shades of Red said:

For the Canadians on here, I'm not sure if any of the TSN channels are going to show this in its entirety as they have with the other skating events so far.  Not sure how much coverage CBC will give to this tonight either.  I like to see the lower ranked teams because you never know who you might discover or be watching at the beginning of a successful career.

Why wouldn't they?  This is a marquee event featuring some of Canada's most prominent Olympians.  They showed the entirety of all the other skating events.

[mtlchick]

29 minutes ago, Shades of Red said:

For the Canadians on here, I'm not sure if any of the TSN channels are going to show this in its entirety as they have with the other skating events so far.  Not sure how much coverage CBC will give to this tonight either.  I like to see the lower ranked teams because you never know who you might discover or be watching at the beginning of a successful career.

Pretty sure TSN or even SN will show the first half.  CBC said they'll show the final 2 flights as of 10 PM.  

[Vera]

28 minutes ago, Shades of Red said:

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see either Andrew Poje and Kaitlyn Weaver or Paul Poirier and Piper Gilles on the podium. 

 

Weaver and Poje are medal contenders, but they have had a bad season. They were second at SCI but mistakes put them sixth at their second event and out of the GPF. They also fell apart on their twizzles at Canadian Nationals. But they had a really good FD performance. I wouldn't count them out yet. 

Barring a disaster from the teams before them, G/P aren't in contention. They may have interesting programs, but there's a reason they are Canada's number three. I also don't think they (or Carol Lane) did themselves any favors this season with the 'But it's Russia' after the Rostelecom Cup. 

[ombelico]

10 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

How does ice dance prevent this from occurring?

They don't.

[Vera]

1 minute ago, PoshSprinkles said:

How does ice dance prevent this from occurring?

 

IMO, the technical panel should have to explain why they assign the levels they do to the ID elements. I still can't tell you why V/M, the Shibs or C/L each lost not one but two levels on the pattern. Especially when they've been fine all season. At the moment, they can assign levels and the skaters just have to accept it.

The way levels are assigned also needs to be revamped. In the FD especially, with the final flight, you're going to see a lot of lifts which will be marked a Level 4, because they will hit the requirements. But some of those lifts are going to be harder than the others, yet with the current system in place, there's no way to reward that difficulty.

[Shades of Red]

36 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Why wouldn't they?  This is a marquee event featuring some of Canada's most prominent Olympians.  They showed the entirety of all the other skating events.

Just checked my tv listings for tonight and a basketball game is listed in the Olympic slot.  At the 11:00 pm mark it lists women's hockey but no figure skating.  Here's hoping it's an error.  I'll be checking at 8:00 pm to see if it's true.  Tomorrow night the dance is in the listings for TSN.

[herbz]

31 minutes ago, Vera said:

IMO, the technical panel should have to explain why they assign the levels they do to the ID elements. I still can't tell you why V/M, the Shibs or C/L each lost not one but two levels on the pattern. Especially when they've been fine all season. At the moment, they can assign levels and the skaters just have to accept it.

The way levels are assigned also needs to be revamped. In the FD especially, with the final flight, you're going to see a lot of lifts which will be marked a Level 4, because they will hit the requirements. But some of those lifts are going to be harder than the others, yet with the current system in place, there's no way to reward that difficulty.

This, exactly. The technical panel are entirely unaccountable, even right up to the CAS, because it's considered an in-play call. The protocols don't go into much detail about the calls, and they can't be appealed.

Only yesterday, Charlie White used a slow motion replay of Tessa Virtue's choctaw to hold it up as technical perfection. Except that Choctaw wasn't given credit, and I have no idea why. The edges looked fine. A similar loss of level tonight will probably see them behind the French in the same way a loss of level in the Finnstep in the Sochi SD (that not even the creator of the pattern could explain) left them with an impossible deficit to try and overcome. With PCS pretty much locked through the season, the tech panel has real power to change the standings.

Camera work and commentary doesn't help. In football you get play by plays from different angles from analysts. In figure skating you get overhead shots of spins. How's anyone supposed to explain where an error occured? It means the technical panel can operate in a cloud of fog. 

With the lifts- you only have to look at P/C. In the SD, they are getting a Level 4 and maximum GOE for their lift. Every single other couple in the top three flights except H/D do a more difficult lift, but the ability to differentiate isn't there and it needs to be.

40 minutes ago, ombelico said:

They don't.

This, essentially. The IJS handbook is actually much less subjective than commentators make it sound. When they're discussing the top teams tonight, they'll say a lot about 'artistic preference' 'apples and oranges' and 'emotional feeling' etc. But 'artistry' isn't a codified part of the judging system. Never has been. But that cover of subjective appeal allows manipulation of component scores to go unchallenged. It's all a bit murky.

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

1 hour ago, Shades of Red said:

I know it won't happen, but I'd love to see either Andrew Poje and Kaitlyn Weaver or Paul Poirier and Piper Gilles on the podium.  From the sounds of things, we're back to the shit that really hasn't gone away for judging.  I don't think either of these pairs are given the respect and marks they should.  I'm sure there are other couples out there as well who are more creative and deserving than some of the predestined podium pairs.  It would make me very happy if the judging tonight with the short is as hard as it seemed to be for the team event.  

For the Canadians on here, I'm not sure if any of the TSN channels are going to show this in its entirety as they have with the other skating events so far.  Not sure how much coverage CBC will give to this tonight either.  I like to see the lower ranked teams because you never know who you might discover or be watching at the beginning of a successful career.

Unfortunately not much has changed for dance with IJS. Even the skaters have that “wait your turn” mentality.

[annzeepark914]

A little off topic right now...but overhead shots of anything in figure skating should be banned.   This is a competition, not a Buzby Berkeley production.

Edited February 18, 2018 by annzeepark914

[MaKaM]

I think any judge that gives +3GOE to an element with an obvious, visible error (awkward lift, twizzle de-sync or foot down, crummy jump landing for non-ice-dancing, etc) should have all their marks thrown out across the competition and removed from judging until they pass a remedial class. And have several years of cheating-free judging at lower level competitions before being allowed to do a major international again.

[herbz]

9 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Unfortunately not much has changed for dance with IJS. Even the skaters have that “wait your turn” mentality.

Or in the case of Tessa and Scott, the best skaters in the field, 'you've had your turn'. Infuriating. I'm about to go to the rink, but I have a long rant brewing about V/M vs P/C. There is no way this should even be a competition there is such a technical gulf between the two couples.

7 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

A little off topic right now...but overhead shots of anything in figure skating should be banned.   This is a competition, not a Buzby Berkeley production.

It's my number 1 per peeve. Show the blades, it's not that hard.

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

Olympic Ice Dance Preview

[AshleyN]

27 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Unfortunately not much has changed for dance with IJS. Even the skaters have that “wait your turn” mentality.

Reading the responses to that second tweet, it seems that the current head of the French federation is the SAME GUY who was at the middle of the Salt Lake City mess? WTF? I would have thought that conspiring to fix an Olympic event would earn you an automatic lifetime ban.

Do these people care at all about how their sport is perceived? It's a shame, because the athletes are so impressive and don't deserve to have their achievements undermined with this BS.

Edited February 18, 2018 by AshleyN

[galaxygirl76]

28 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Unfortunately not much has changed for dance with IJS. Even the skaters have that “wait your turn” mentality.

Well, this has the potential of being a lot of fun if there is controversy about who wins the gold...damn.

[HartofDixie]

Two hours grab some popcorn!

[herbz]

Oh yes, Didier Gailhaguet. Orchestrated Salt Lake City, remains entirely unapologetic for it. Banned for 3 years, then allowed his old job as President of the French Federation back. Even ran for ISU President a couple of years back, and got a lot of support. Tweeted a year ago that this time in a year Papadakis and Cizeron will be Olympic Champions. 

An absolute blight on our sport. 

This sucks for everyone. V/M will get screwed, P/C's victory will be tainted. The ISU needs to get its act together.

[annzeepark914]

I just sent an email to support@nbcsports.com to let them know how impressed I am with Tanith Belbin's work on Olympic Ice and as an ice dance commentator.  She really is so professional and has been doing a great job at the O's.  

It's a good thing I'm not a parent of a skater.  I'd be one of those who pace the hallways during a competition.  I'm nervous already for the SD.

[herbz]

2 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I just sent an email to support@nbcsports.com to let them know how impressed I am with Tanith Belbin's work on Olympic Ice and as an ice dance commentator.  She really is so professional and has been doing a great job at the O's.  

It's a good thing I'm not a parent of a skater.  I'd be one of those who pace the hallways during a competition.  I'm nervous already for the SD.

She's brilliant. Hope she does more.

[Vera]

Watch the levels tonight, not just the PCS. If everyone goes clean, V/M and the Shibs or H/D are going to have some interesting calls.

I don't care much for TSL, especially with the way they talk about the skaters. But that was a good interview with Meagan Duhamel. She didn't let them interrupt at said what she had to say.  She should join them more often, might make Dave and Jonathan more bearable. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Vera

[herbz]

10 minutes ago, Vera said:

Watch the levels tonight, not just the PCS. If everyone goes clean, V/M and the Shibs or H/D are going to have some interesting calls.

I don't care much for TSL, especially with the way they talk about the skaters. But that was a good interview with Meagan Duhamel. She didn't let them interrupt at said what she had to say.  She should join them more often, might make Dave and Jonathan more bearable. 

 

I'm going to be watching the midline step sequences very very closely. If both skate their usual, and V/M get a Level 2 or 3 and P/C a 4 for the first time ever then I am fully willing to believe in any conspiracy you like about backdoor deals. There is zero comparison. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[EllenB]

44 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

A little off topic right now...but overhead shots of anything in figure skating should be banned.   This is a competition, not a Buzby Berkeley production.

I don't mind if it's done briefly during a spin.  Since the elimination of school figures years ago, there have been too many spins that drift too far, and sometimes that can only be seen on an overhead shot.  It's too hard to tell on regular shots if the problem is with the skater or the camera, unless you really line up the skater and one background item and blot out everything else.

[ChicksDigScars]

Ummm. The Russian Federation DID watch the same Candyman mess that we all did, right? They saw the same horrific costumes and saw the errors, right? Jesus Christ. 

 

Dear Russia: I think CeeLo Green said it best...

[Vera]

Why does Russia even have judges at these Olympics? Are they the 'Olympic judges from Russia'?

[absnow54]

Wait are there Russian judges on the panels? This ban is such a joke. The announcers in every other decipline have given up the charade and just saying Russians for everything. 

[leopardprint]

12 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I don’t know if this is still the case in gymnastics (or if I’m thinking of a different sport), but at one time they didn’t allow judges to judge athletes from their own country. You ended up with a panel of judges from random countries like Malaysia and Luxembourg who didn’t really know what they were doing so they changed it back. It almost seems like figure skating needs to adopt that approach with all the corruption. 

I was thinking along the same lines as maybe they shouldn’t allow judges to judge the pairs from their countries but maybe they should go all out and just get judges from countries without any skaters competing so there can’t be any score swapping though I suppose out and out bribery is still possible. 

 

3 minutes ago, Vera said:

Why does Russia even have judges at these Olympics? Are they the 'Olympic judges from Russia'?

They tested clean. ? 

Edited February 18, 2018 by leopardprint

[vixenbynight]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

And, I suspect, that, if he does well in this small opportunity, NBC will be open to using him in the future to provide color commentary.  Look at how Tara and Johnny started out and now they're at the Kentucky Derby, the Super Bowl and who knows where else, being paid by NBC to do their thing. Good for Adam!

Oh...they do commentary for the Kentucky Derby. I will have to check it out this year.  Just the idea of their potential matching outfits (and hats) excites me.

Adam could be in the crowd, interviewing attendees about who they think will win (along with doing commentary on their outfits).

[AshleyN]

22 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I don’t know if this is still the case in gymnastics (or if I’m thinking of a different sport), but at one time they didn’t allow judges to judge athletes from their own country. You ended up with a panel of judges from random countries like Malaysia and Luxembourg who didn’t really know what they were doing so they changed it back. It almost seems like figure skating needs to adopt that approach with all the corruption. 

It was a long time ago, but wasn't this actually a factor in Salt Lake City? I seem to recall that the France didn't have a judge on the Ice Dance panel while Russia did, hence the quid pro quo agreement. Or am I remembering that all wrong?

[Harry24]

11 hours ago, herbz said:

barring several major errors the judges are going to hand it to [P/C].

Why do you think the judges are doing this, herbz?  Simple bribery?  Something more complicated?  And I gather you think this started with P/C's first World Championship win, and that the Shibs should have won that free dance.

I'm a big fan of Papadakis/Cizeron.  Their skating brought me back to enjoying ice dance again. I find their best dances absolutely mesmerizing.  I love their fluidity and soulful expression.  I don't really enjoy the aesthetics of the more ballroom/athletic dance styles that have been in vogue since Annisina/Peizerat left the scene (the last dance team I really enjoyed). I'm definitely hoping P/C win, but not because some sort of fix is in.

[Minneapple]

58 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I just sent an email to support@nbcsports.com to let them know how impressed I am with Tanith Belbin's work on Olympic Ice and as an ice dance commentator.  She really is so professional and has been doing a great job at the O's.  

I like her a lot. Even the lady on the streaming does a really good job.  One issue I have with Tara and Johnny is that it's now become more about TARA AND JOHNNY and their outfits and makeup rather than it is about the skaters on the ice.

[MaKaM]

15 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I like her a lot. Even the lady on the streaming does a really good job.  One issue I have with Tara and Johnny is that it's now become more about TARA AND JOHNNY and their outfits and makeup rather than it is about the skaters on the ice.

But mostly when Tara speaks. If it is just Johnny (and Terry), Johnny can be insightful and interesting. With Tara it is all just giggles and hearkening back to her Olympic glory days. It is too bad they turned themselves into an inseparable pair because I'd like to see how Johnny does with Tanith.

[Enero]

20 minutes ago, MaKaM said:

But mostly when Tara speaks. If it is just Johnny (and Terry), Johnny can be insightful and interesting. With Tara it is all just giggles and hearkening back to her Olympic glory days. It is too bad they turned themselves into an inseparable pair because I'd like to see how Johnny does with Tanith.

I keep hearing people say this, but not once during this competition have I heard Tara mention her Olympic glory days. Perhaps I missed it? Ironically Johnny mentioned his disaster at the Olympics in comparison to Nathan’s disaster during the SP. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Enero

[herbz]

1 hour ago, Harry24 said:

Why do you think the judges are doing this, herbz?  Simple bribery?  Something more complicated?  And I gather you think this started with P/C's first World Championship win, and that the Shibs should have won that free dance.

I'm a big fan of Papadakis/Cizeron.  Their skating brought me back to enjoying ice dance again. I find their best dances absolutely mesmerizing.  I love their fluidity and soulful expression.  I don't really enjoy the aesthetics of the more ballroom/athletic dance styles that have been in vogue since Annisina/Peizerat left the scene (the last dance team I really enjoyed). I'm definitely hoping P/C win, but not because some sort of fix is in.

Got a big post in my head that I'll get to later. I don't think it's bribery or anything that dramatic, more narrative. Essentially, I think the figure skating world wanted a new style of dance post Sochi and P/C really are very pretty, very ethereal movers, plus the Europeans do not want the OGM to go to North America 3 times in a row, not after decades of dominance. I love their FDs too- I'd have no issue with their 2015 scores if they'd not messed up those twizzles and not been dinged enough for it. And I vastly prefer them to Chock and Bates, who iirc got Silver that year. So they can have that one :P 

Ballroom isn't just an aesthetic for ice dance. It's the very foundation of it. Hence why we used to have compulsories, and why we have direct comparisons in the short dance patterns now. And *this* is where I think P/C are really held up. They're not as good at those basics as their scores say they are. If I was judging purely on what I liked watching better, I might well be inclined to go for their fluid movement in the FD. I'd pay to watch them skate 'To Build A Home' at a show. It's beautiful to witness live too. But they also gain that fluidity by doing things that are technically less challenging than what other teams do and sometimes they gain that fluidity by doing things that are technically incorrect. Judging by the actual ISU handbook, which doesn't really include artistry or feeling at all outside of the one Performance component, they have some deficiencies as a team that I don't think are being reflected in their scores. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[displayname]

Boy, I can't wait for today's event of Ice Cheating!

[herbz]

1 minute ago, fan94 said:

Boy, I can't wait for today's event of Ice Cheating!

Think I'll need alcohol.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I don’t see why the Russian Skating Federation is up in arms as Russia is not allowed to compete at these Olympics. ?

Best comment^^^^^

Regarding the content of the Tweets, the (Not)Russian pairs were absolute SHIT. They no more deserved a medal than I did. (Not)Russia needs to get their heads out of their asses and realize the Gordeeva/Grinkov days are long gone.

I am so here for the drama, though.

Edited February 18, 2018 by BitterApple

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, Enero said:

I keep hearing people say this, but not once during this competition have I heard Tara mention her Olympic glory days. Perhaps I missed it? Ironically Johnny mentioned his disaster at the Olympics in comparison to Nathan’s disaster during the SP. 

 

Johnny and Terry mention it and she responds but I don’t think she’s ever brought it up on her own. I do think Tara just tends to agree with Johnny however I find that the perspective of a nerves of steel champ like Tara (sobsKwansobs) who just did the thing vs Johnny who succumbed to nerves or injury or general skating BS can be interesting. I kind of want a Johnny/Tanith pair with Tara as the go-to commentator on all things gold medal and then Tara and Johnny can comment on style. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by leopardprint

[displayname]

3 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Unfortunately not much has changed for dance with IJS. Even the skaters have that “wait your turn” mentality.

I'm sorry, why is the ISU still even an organisation recognized by the IOC?

 

A year long ultimatum should be in place ASAP.

[herbz]

Warning, this is a long old post. The only topic of discussion at the rink today is what’s about to happen in Ice Dance if everyone goes clean. And we are unanimously agreed that what is likely about to happen in Ice Dance is pas idéal.

You know when Torvill and Dean came back and got hosed in Lillehammer because the world of figure skating wanted to show that they’d moved on and that their time had been and gone? Not exactly the same circumstances obviously, but this is what’s about to happen to Virtue and Moir. Ice Dance is an incredibly insular world, and V/M put a lot of noses out of joint by refusing to quietly glide into the night and stay retired. For my money, this is (supposedly) a sport, and no athlete has a duty to step aside for anyone else to shine- I mean, did we tell Michael Phelps ‘hey, why not give someone else a shot for a while?’

To say Papadakis/Cizeron had a meteoric rise is an understatement and a half. Their overall scores went up by over 40 points between the 2014 and 2015 Worlds. 40 points! In Ice Dance! Even with a coaching change, better programs, and a federation now behind you, that is unheard of. They definitely deserved higher than 13th at the 2014 Worlds, but nobody essentially becomes an entirely different skater in one off season.

P/C have IMO been propped by the judges in the short dance since they came to prominence. And this isn’t even a P/C vs V/M stan war issue. I did like their Paso very much, but case in point: the SD at 2016 Worlds against the Shibutanis. The required pattern was the Ravensburger Waltz. Papadakis and Cizeron danced this pattern genuinely badly. I wouldn’t let intermediates get away with the amount of cutting corners they did there. It looked clumpy because he dragged her two footed through several turns, his footwork was lazy in the chassés, they both danced through on shallower edges than Maia and Alex, who don't have the deepest edges themselves. They had incorrect timing with each other, incorrect timing with the waltz count, and incorrect posture in hold in several places. The Shibs were very neat.

So what happened? P/C beat the Shibs in Skating Skills, Timing, and GOE for the Ravensburger Waltz pattern. It was really poor judging that I’ve said earlier on here I couldn’t understand at the time. P/C had a truly stunning FD that year, possibly my favourite program all quad, but that old figure skating saying- you can’t win gold in the short but you can lose it? You could make the argument that Papadakis and Cizeron should have lost it right there.

I don’t know who this writer is, but here’s a very detailed breakdown with GIFs of how the Shibs executed that dance better:

http://judgingtheisu.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/tech-analysis-pc-fudging-ravensburger.html

http://judgingtheisu.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/tech-analysis-pc-fudging-ravensburger.html

We move to 2017 Worlds, and the point where I realised that Virtue and Moir stood a pretty low chance of winning the OGM however they performed. To understand ice dance politics, you’ve got to take a very close look at the protocols. Here’s V/M’s short dance to Prince, often considered in the ice dance world to be the greatest short dance ever:

Here’s P/C’s swing short dance from the same competition:

 

The required pattern- the Midnight Blues- P/C performed less well than several other teams. They do not skate particularly close together in this pattern and Guillaume is noticeably overextending in comparison to Gabby. These two programs scored basically identical PCS. What? Looking further, you see that Judge 4 gave V/M 9.0 in Skating Skills and 9.25 for Timing, and gave P/C 9.75 for the same components. For these performances? Come the fuck on. Judge 4 was Christine Hurth, who I believe is France’s designated judge at the Olympics. Scott did not help matters by tripping in the FD, allowing the French Federation to run all over the place yelling that P/C were unfairly robbed of the title and that the two teams are equal in skill. I don’t believe either of those statements to be true, but the narrative seems to have stuck nonetheless. It seemed clear to me then that if they could get the same PCS for this, then as soon as they cracked the levels they'd be winning.

On to this season. P/C have a better SD than they did in the past two years. 7 points and threatening the short dance WR better? Ehhhhhh. I regularly score programs to keep my hand in and have P/C more in line with the Shibs in the SD. Maybe in line with H/D if they’re perfect (not set on this however) . They are maxing out on GOE for their lift- the majority of the 24 couples dancing tonight will do a harder one. They are near maxing out on GOE for their midline step sequence, their weakest element across both programs really- Gabby struggles to stabilise her turns without Guillaume to hold on to. All three of V/M, S/S and H/D should be ahead of or in line with them in that regard. They are winning Skating Skills. They also spent a portion of their Rhumba dancing to the melody and not the beat (I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on this now, I saw a run through from today where this doesn't seem to be an issue any more) which is such a huge NO in the short dance. At Europeans, Gabby botched the second set of twizzles and they got a string of +2 and +3 GOEs. That they are beating V/M on PCS in the short dance is pretty much indefensible according to the ISU’s own judging system. For their part, V/M have seen their PCS for the SD come down between Skate Canada and the Team Event from the same judges. The USA and Russia always scored with France anyway.

The free dance is a different matter. When they can skate more, well, freely, with open holds and a bit more side by side skating, P/C have lovely qualities. The choreography this year is quite empty in places, and they shouldn’t be winning the Transitions component in any universe, but they have good glide, good edges, lovely upper body movement, and buckets of style.

The short dance is important though. Like I said upthread, with compulsories gone it’s the only way to compare partnering skills, edges in patterns, and the ability to interpret different dance rhythms and timings- the very foundations of the discipline.  Rather than scoring what’s on the ice though, on the evidence of this quad the judges are using it, essentially, to keep the couple they wish to rank first in the free in touch, and keeping certain other couples juuuuuust out of reach of fighting for higher placements.

Whatever your opinion on their artistry or lack thereof, Virtue and Moir are as close to technically flawless as it gets in this sport. They have superior posture, glide, edge quality, extension, synchronicity, lift positions, athleticism, timing, and closed hold partnering. They’re just better than everyone else.  And they came back to lose an Olympic Gold to a team that is very good, but by no means more capable, because of politics.

I’ve been skating forever. It’s far from the first time a skater or couple has been monumentally screwed. I know a lot of you dislike V/M for a variety of reasons, but it’s so galling every time this happens. Everyone who’s involved in figure skating knows that tactical lowballing happens. That the intention to cheat is now being stated so openly by Russian officials (who shouldn’t even be here!) makes me sad for a couple who has done so much for Ice Dance and is not going to get what they deserve.

Do not even get me started on the PCS that (Russian!) B/S have been receiving at these Olympics.

TL,DR: Ice Dance judging is incomprehensible nationalistic bullshit. Don’t get too invested ;)

Edited February 18, 2018 by herbz

[Tanichka]

Really interesting insights, herbz!  Thanks.  I don’t know the finer points, but I know what I like!  I find Virtue Moir sublime.  Should be an interesting competition & we Canadians should be used to getting screwed in Ice Dance. lol.  At least V/M have a gold from 2010 & this year for the team.

[Vera]

The green room for the SD and FD is going to be fascinating.

[mtlchick]

At last, the scandals move away from curling and moves to where it was destined to be.  I'm going to be so tired at work tomorrow staying for this.  And it will be worth it.

[specialj67]

Since gold and silver seems pretty locked up between Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir in whatever order, I’m most excited for the competition for bronze. I really enjoy watching both the Shibs and Hubbell/Donohue. On a purely personal or emotional level, I’d like to see the Shibs on that podium at the end. But if H/D skate to their full potential, it would be nice to see them medal. I enjoy how different they are as performers.

I know it’s kind of silly, but I only hope the judging politics don’t taint the medal-winning performances—whichever ones they end up being.

[Growsonwalls]

9 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

It's all we have, lol. The ladies skate is a foregone conclusion with the exception of who is going to win bronze so ice dance is the only area we can realistically expect an upset/shady outcome. 

Eh ladies' always has the potential to become a splatfest. I mean in 2002 would anyone have thought that Sarah Hughes would sneak in to win gold? 

[Enero]

9 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Eh ladies' always has the potential to become a splatfest. I mean in 2002 would anyone have thought that Sarah Hughes would sneak in to win gold? 

When was the last time the expected winner won in the Ladies event 2010 and before that 1992? 

Knowing how the Dance event will turn out before skates even touch the ice, I’m not sure if I’ll watch tonight. I’m really not interested in watching the performances if the results are already predetermined. 

[Vera]

I'm going to watch. I think this will be the last Olys and season for many teams and have been watching them develop for over a decade now. I've developed a fondness, even for those whose skating I criticize. 

Regardless of the scoring, I think all the teams will deliver and we should have a good competition!