S03.E21: Snow Drifts/S03.E22: There's No Place Like Home

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I actually don't think Rumpel has learned his lesson with regards to prophecy, at the end of the day. Dude needs to read some Greek literature and pay special attention to the term "self-fulfilling prophecy."

[Shanna Marie]

But Rumple didn't go through with killing Henry, and that prophecy was about his own death (technically, "undoing"). Rumple's life goals were to find Bae and to stay alive, and if those had conflicted, he'd have been really torn. If Emma had told him that he'd die, he might have been tempted to alter time, but as long as he knew he would find Bae, I don't think that news of Bae's subsequent death would have driven him to do something risky to potentially himself and to his quest. At that point, Bae had lived for more than a couple of hundred years, so I'm not sure that "before his time" applies to his death. Even finding him still alive was a huge stretch and only happened because of the Neverland side trip. If Bae had just stayed in Victorian London, he'd have been long dead before Rumple pulled off the curse. He may have figured that he might be able to change things once he found Bae, but he couldn't veer from finding Bae.

 

Hey, that may be our next back-from-the-dead triangle -- we find out that Rumple got his memories back after finding Neal and prevented Neal's death somehow. So Neal's back from the dead. Again. Though I'm not sure how Rumple would still be alive if Neal hadn't died, unless Neal found some other person to revive the Dark One.

[Rumsy4]

I think that was just put in so Rumple wouldn't blame Emma for not telling him about Neal's death, after they came back to the future. This way, they made it Rumple's choice ultimately.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But Rumple didn't go through with killing Henry

 

He did, actually - in the swing incident. The only reason it didn't happen was because the Charmings showed up at the last second. Rumple knew he was going to find Bae. The seer told him he would, so he knew Bae wasn't going to be dead.

 

I feel like the whole Rumple drinking the potion wasted a potentially interesting plot for S4 - an altered future. Sort of like Back to the Future Part 2. Perhaps one where Rumple ditched the curse idea altogether and went for something else, thus everyone is still in the Enchanted Forest. Maybe one where a villain like Zelena, Maleficent or Cora took power.

Edited September 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

It's a real betrayal of the essence of the Rumpel character before 3x22, imo, so I try not to remember that it happened most of the time.

I think it depends on what was Rumple's strongest desire when it comes to Baelfire.

 

I know he wanted to be with his son, but I think it was just as important--maybe moreso--that he be reconciled with his son, and that Rumple and Bae have a different outcome than Rumple and Malcolm, with both father and son knowing they were loved.

 

Drinking the potion works if it's because he reconciled with Baelfire.  He drinks the potion after he finds out that Bae had forgiven him and loved him.   Rumple wouldn't want to give that up.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Mari

[KAOS Agent]

And again, everyone is leaving out the time travel aspect. Rumpel now knows that it is possible, so why would he potentially mess things up for his future self whom he would expect to go back and fix things so that Bae doesn't die? I don't buy that he fell for Emma's pleas to not take Neal's "heroism" away from him, but Emma also said that if he tried to change things he could make it worse and that's an idea Rumpel is very well acquainted with. He's a manipulative freak, but he's also calculating and what if he screws up so that he never sees Bae? Big risk to take when you know you've got the time travel option on the table.

[KingOfHearts]

Then why doesn't he do that in the present now? He was pretty adamant with Zelena about not going back in time to save his son.

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

But you're talking about two different Rumpels. I'm saying Past!Rumpel took the potion because he expects Future!Rumpel to use his full knowledge and go into the past to fix it. What Future!Rumpel does and does not do are completely separate from the guy who is drinking the potion. I don't know what is going on in Rumpel's head now. He's got his True Love Belle and he's alive because of Neal idiotically sacrificing himself. He also had Neal himself beg his father to let him go. He may actually respect those wishes. Past!Rumpel would not know this. Past!Rumpel sees only that he gets what he wants and that there is a way to fix things using time travel once they go wrong. 

[stealinghome]

See, this is why time travel plots hurt my brain, but: if Past!Rumpel thought Present!Rumpel would use his time travel knowledge to fix things, wouldn't he also be questioning why Present!Rumpel hasn't done it already?

Edited September 2, 2014 by stealinghome

[KingOfHearts]

See, this is why time travel plots hurt my brain

Ditto. In my opinion, Once should have never done it. It creates so many possible plot holes. Like, for example, all the wizards including the Dark One himself couldn't cast a time travel spell, but all Zelena has to do is slap a sword hilt, a golden brain, a heart and a baby together to do the impossible. Then with other things, it just annoyingly complicates them, like with Marian for example. Heaven knows what Frozen's going to do with it.

Time travel is just a broader topic than the writers wanted to deal with. All they really wanted was a fun Captain Swan movie. It cheapens the entire time travel concept and genre, at least to me the sci-fi geek.

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not at all a fan of the time travel idea, but just for the expressions on Emma's face at seeing these people in all of their fairy tale glory, it was totally worth it. I loved that Emma wasn't even trying to play it cool in this episode. 

[Serena]

Ultimately, I don't really care about the nitpicks - or Rumple, TBH. I loved Emma getting a fairy tale adventure, getting to see her parents, and being part of that world, so I can overlook the rest.

[retrograde]

Yeah, count me in camp "totally willing to handwave a lot because I enjoyed the time travel adventure so much." Honestly, I will handwave a whole lot on this show so long as it's fun and I'm enjoying it. The nitpicks only bug me when they're not offset by positives.

[Shanna Marie]

I know he wanted to be with his son, but I think it was just as important--maybe moreso--that he be reconciled with his son, and that Rumple and Bae have a different outcome than Rumple and Malcolm, with both father and son knowing they were loved.

I always got the feeling that finding Bae was far more about Rumple than it really was about Bae. He was trying to correct that past mistake, except he was never willing to correct what led to that mistake. He never really tried to change, and he seems to still be more or less the same man that Bae got the bean to try to escape/force to change, if not worse. That was one of the things brushed aside in their rush to get to the "I love you, Papa" moment. He may have ultimately made a different choice when it came to his son, but he was still doing all the same things that Bae had issues with in the first place. In all his time spent trying to get to his son, Rumple never seemed to consider what his son might want -- did he want to be found, how would that affect his life, what his son would think about all the horrible things he did to get to him. Rumple ruined a lot of lives, including Emma's, in engineering the curse. So, it seems to me that he would focus all his efforts on getting to his son again and wouldn't want to mess that up. Anything else that might happen because of what he did didn't seem to matter as much to him. And thus, the potion. Present day Rumple might make a different decision because his son had once again become a real person to him instead of an abstract concept. But immediate pre-curse Rumple was probably at his very worst and most selfish, and getting to Bae was all about him, not really about Bae.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yeah, count me in camp "totally willing to handwave a lot because I enjoyed the time travel adventure so much." Honestly, I will handwave a whole lot on this show so long as it's fun and I'm enjoying it. The nitpicks only bug me when they're not offset by positives.

 

I would feel that way too if the time travel adventure was actually entertaining for me. It had it's humorous parts, but I'm probably one of the few people on the internet who didn't find it to be super amazing. I'm a major proponent of Captain Swan, don't get me wrong, but the plot itself was kind of "meh" to me. It was like another Snow vs. Regina flashback with stuff we've already seen a thousand times. The only scene in the past that really grabbed my attention was the tavern scene. Other than that, I didn't find it to be all that memorable. Again, most of it was stuff we'd already seen back in S1.

 

As far as Once in general goes, there are things I find entertaining enough that I ignore the show issues. Take Regina, for example. Many times when I'm watching her in Storybrooke, I forget about her major character problems because I enjoy her attitude and snark. In fact, I didn't even realize Regina had problems until I started reading TWOP! (That was before 3B.)

Edited September 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I'm a Doctor Who fan, so when it comes to time travel plot loopiness, I just go "wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey" and shrug it off. The main thing I liked about these episodes was that we actually got some of that juxtaposition of worlds/culture clash that should be all over this series but that is sadly lacking.

 

Emma got to be the fish out of water as she was trying to make her way in the Enchanted Forest, and there were all her delightful reactions to seeing the familiar Storybrooke folks in their native habitat, plus getting to watch fairy tales play out and getting to be the princess that she is. I'm a sucker for "portal" fantasies, in which someone from out world visits a magical world, so we get to see the magical world from a familiar viewpoint and get pop culture references to describe it. At the same time, all the pop culture things she was mapping to her experiences were utterly foreign to Hook, so although he was in his home world that was familiar to him, they weren't speaking the same language, which made the Marty McFly and Princess Leia and Prince Charles jokes even funnier. I also loved throwing the two of them together in an adventure where they weren't really dealing with all the outside stuff that's affected their relationship so far. They're with her parents, but her parents don't know they're her parents and don't know him as a pirate, so they don't have to deal with that approval/disapproval thing, and he gets a rare chance to just be the person he is now without the baggage of his past. Since they don't know her as their daughter, she just gets to be herself and not have all those expectations and dreams weighing on her. Yeah, the whole timeline is at stake, but there also seems to be something rather liberating about it all for both of them. As Prince Charles and Princess Leia they get to just be Killian and Emma, without all the labels that are usually attached to them and without all their usual baggage.

[Jean]

I thought Rumple drank the potion for one reason and that was for Bae's sake and not his own and I do think it was entirely in character. Emma told him that "Bae" died a hero and not to take that away from him.

 

What are Rumple's 2 biggest issues in life that has colored everything he's done. Being labeled a coward like his father and abandoning Bae. He already knew he fixed one of them by reuniting with Bae. The other hit him right where it counted. I think it was enough for him to know that Bae died a hero, and didn't end up a coward like him and his dad. For Rumple, Bae broke the family cycle.

 

Note:  I think this is all bs of course cause I don't think Neal died a hero at all so it took away the impact a bit.

[kitticup]

I always got the feeling that finding Bae was far more about Rumple than it really was about Bae. He was trying to correct that past mistake, except he was never willing to correct what led to that mistake. He never really tried to change, and he seems to still be more or less the same man that Bae got the bean to try to escape/force to change, if not worse. That was one of the things brushed aside in their rush to get to the "I love you, Papa" moment. He may have ultimately made a different choice when it came to his son, but he was still doing all the same things that Bae had issues with in the first place. In all his time spent trying to get to his son, Rumple never seemed to consider what his son might want -- did he want to be found, how would that affect his life, what his son would think about all the horrible things he did to get to him. Rumple ruined a lot of lives, including Emma's, in engineering the curse. So, it seems to me that he would focus all his efforts on getting to his son again and wouldn't want to mess that up. Anything else that might happen because of what he did didn't seem to matter as much to him. And thus, the potion. Present day Rumple might make a different decision because his son had once again become a real person to him instead of an abstract concept. But immediate pre-curse Rumple was probably at his very worst and most selfish, and getting to Bae was all about him, not really about Bae.

I've always thought that Rumple wanted his cake and to eat it too, meaning he wanted to keep his power/magic and wanted Bae too.  He was unwilling to sacrifice his power for Bae.  I think that is way this whole complicated curse was needed so that Rumple could come to the without magic and bring magic here.  If he was willing to give up his magic, he probably could have found a way to the world without magic.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I've always thought that Rumple wanted his cake and to eat it too, meaning he wanted to keep his power/magic and wanted Bae too.  He was unwilling to sacrifice his power for Bae.

 

True, but he also tried to get the Silver Slippers from Zelena and the magic bean from Hook.

Edited September 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[babyPhat279]

Dumb question, but how come Rumple didn't recognize Hook when he and Emma were back in time? Didn't the stuff with Hook and Rumple and Milah happen waaaay before the Snow White stuff?

[retrograde]

He did recognise him. That's why he immediately tried to kill him before Emma intervened.

[babyPhat279]

Ah, nevermind.

[mustbekarma]

"There's No Place Like Home" just gets me every single time, much like the Pilot episode. Emma getting to see her parents fall in love, that's such a beautiful moment. Belle and Gold get married, the baby is named after Neal, and Robin Hood and Maid Marian reunite. I just can't have Robin Hood without Maid Marian. It's like peanut butter and jelly, and chocolate chip cookies with milk.

 

Top it off with Elsa at the end, and Miss Regina getting to experience some consequences for her actions, and there's conflict and suspense on top of some wonderful, emotional scenes that still make me tear up.

 

This episode reminded me why I love this fudging show so stinking much.

Edited September 23, 2014 by mustbekarma

[Rumbelle]

Is that Belle in the background (eavesdropping?) 30 seconds in?

(in another shot you see the puppets in the background, but the size and angle doesn't look right for that to be them)

[KingOfHearts]

 

Is that Belle in the background (eavesdropping?) 30 seconds in?

That's definitely Gepetto's Parents.

[Rumbelle]

OH...ok...I guess I see the second figure coming into view there, after a few seconds.

But they looked farther away (and at a different angle) 6 -8 seconds in.

[YaddaYadda]

That statue in the background does not look at all like the one from GoT.  Like at all!  

[Rumbelle]

Man, Robert Carlyle was chewing up the scenery at his MOST Rumplestiltskinest in that episode.

And I mean that in the BEST possible way!!

[KingOfHearts]

Robert has been really soft with imp Rumple lately. His heart hasn't been it, to be honest. But this episode really felt like the old Rumple. I LOVED "What the hell am I doing in here?"

[Rumbelle]

Yeah, sometimes you get the feeling he's sort of dialing Rumple in, but he was relishing it in this episode.

I have a love/hate relationship with the while idea of time travel.   I'm fascinated by it, and simultaneously endlessly annoyed by shows/movies that depict it, because the logistics of it (and ramifications on....EVERYTHING...in the future), are just impossibly impossible to calculate, even just in the theoretical.

However, I love this episode in spite of myself.   I credit Rumplestiltskin, and the really great job done with Emma (and all her reactions to seeing all those characters in their truest forms).

Someone tell me (I feel like I should know this, but there are so many wands running around on this show :p ) where Rumple got the wand that he gave Emma.   I *thought* it was the one he got from Cinderella's FGM, but this one has some sort of silver spirally thing on the hilt.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Rumbelle

[KAOS Agent]

The wand he used appears to be the Black Fairy's wand from "Going Home"

[Rumbelle]

I thought so....but do we know how Rumplestiltskin had it back then?!   Since he chose to, err, gloss over that factoid, in this episode?!  :p

[Shanna Marie]

I was watching that clip without turning on my computer's speakers, since I was looking for the mentioned possible detail, and I got sidetracked by the pretty. Seriously, Emma and Hook are two very attractive people. That peasant/prisoner outfit was a good look on her, and I'm not even sure why. There was just something about the way her hair framed her face and maybe her expression, or something, but she just looked so radiant. And then there was something about the way his hair was done and maybe that outfit or possibly the lighting (since it wasn't quite so striking when they were sent to the vault and he was back in the pirate outfit) that really spotlighted his lovely bone structure. Someone should use him as a sculpture model. He's got such nice cheekbones and jawline. So, anyway, I lost track of what I was supposed to be looking for.

 

There are many reasons why this is my favorite episode(s) of the series.

[Dani-Ellie]

There was just something about the way her hair framed her face and maybe her expression, or something, but she just looked so radiant.

 

I think that's all part of it along with the color of the cloak. It was such a lovely shade of blue and not a color we normally see Emma in.

[ABitOFluff]

This last Saturday I decided to watch the finale again while I put together a desk, hoping it would help keep me from throwing allen wrenches at the wall. Every time I got frustrated with screws that apparently were not made to fit any hole anywhere on anything, I would just look at Hook and Emma on screen and smile.

 

I was watching that clip without turning on my computer's speakers, since I was looking for the mentioned possible detail, and I got sidetracked by the pretty. Seriously, Emma and Hook are two very attractive people. That peasant/prisoner outfit was a good look on her, and I'm not even sure why. There was just something about the way her hair framed her face and maybe her expression, or something, but she just looked so radiant. And then there was something about the way his hair was done and maybe that outfit or possibly the lighting (since it wasn't quite so striking when they were sent to the vault and he was back in the pirate outfit) that really spotlighted his lovely bone structure. Someone should use him as a sculpture model. He's got such nice cheekbones and jawline. So, anyway, I lost track of what I was supposed to be looking for.

 

There are many reasons why this is my favorite episode(s) of the series.

I also noticed that Jennifer's expressions did really add a lot to why I love the finale. I attributed it to Emma's gradually letting down her walls and admitting her feelings for Hook. Actually, so many of her reactions to him were lovely, especially during their dance and when he said he always knew there was a bit of pirate in her and the way she glanced at him as they watched Snow and Charming go their separate ways. Plus, Colin always looks good, but I think he looked exquisite in his Prince Charles clothing.

 

On a completely separate note, I found I didn't totally hate them naming Snowflake after Neal. Don't get me wrong, I hated it the first few times I've seen it, and would absolutely be annoyed if my parents named my brother after my ex. But obviously the writers wanted the baby's name to be oh-so-meaningful and tie back to family somehow, and everyone in town believes Neal died a hero, so there you go. With that, I couldn't think of any name that would have worked. Yes, it was still stupid.

 

That said, the one thing I continue to hate is the Robin/Marian reunion and Regina's reaction. Way to ruin an otherwise perfect episode.

[Serena]

On a completely separate note, I found I didn't totally hate them naming Snowflake after Neal. Don't get me wrong, I hated it the first few times I've seen it, and would absolutely be annoyed if my parents named my brother after my ex. But obviously the writers wanted the baby's name to be oh-so-meaningful and tie back to family somehow, and everyone in town believes Neal died a hero, so there you go. With that, I couldn't think of any name that would have worked. Yes, it was still stupid.

I mean, Graham would have worked. He never dicked any of the Charmings over, he saved all of them (if he hadn't refused to kill Snow, Snowing wouldn't have met and both Emma and Henry wouldn't be born), and in exchange for all of that he got 30 years as a sex slave, a brutal death, and the Charmings regularly having brunch with his murderer. 

/stillbitter

 

That's similar to Marian's problem. Here's another person who sacrificed her freakin' life for Snow (and if she hadn't, Snowing wouldn't have met, no Emma and Henry, etc), and in exchange she gets... Snow cheering on a woman sleeping with her husband. Nice.

[Shanna Marie]

I mean, Graham would have worked. He never dicked any of the Charmings over, he saved all of them (if he hadn't refused to kill Snow, Snowing wouldn't have met and both Emma and Henry wouldn't be born)

He also saved Charming himself because he was the one who helped Charming escape when he was on his way to be executed by Regina. I'm not imagining that, am I? That was one of the surprise Graham return cameos after he was killed in the present, if I recall. And Snow, at least, lived in the same town with him for 28 years.

 

Naming Snowflake after Neal just struck me as a fanfic/Harry Potter epilogue kind of thing, where every child's name has to have some deeper meaning in honoring some other character. No one just names their baby something they like the sound of in these stories. Then there's the fact that even if Neal really had been a hero, really had saved them all, and hadn't ditched a teenaged pregnant Emma in jail for his crimes, they barely knew him. That whole speech about how he loved them and they loved him has no bearing on the reality of what we saw in the show itself, where I don't think Neal and David spoke more than a few words to each other, ever. I'm straining my brain to think of any scene between the two of them that wasn't a group scene. Ditto for Snow. He seems to have taken off for Rumple's palace soon after the return to the Enchanted Forest.

[KAOS Agent]

I hate that they named Baby Snowflake after Neal, but I will give a little leeway in the "he loved us and we loved him" stuff. I attribute that as a comment more about Emma & Henry (Rumpel too) than Snow & David's feelings towards him. It's why the camera flashed to Emma when he said it. However, if that's what Snowing was going for, they needed to discuss the idea with Emma and Henry first and not just spring it on them. Regardless of whether her feelings towards Neal were positive or negative, creating a permanent reminder of him in her brother could be very, very painful.

 

On a more practical note, I hate the name because I'm constantly confused when they refer to Neal because I always have to stop and remember they're talking about the baby and not the dead ex-boyfriend.  

[YaddaYadda]

The whole naming ceremony and then the name Neal reminded me of the "Surprise M****cker" guy.  Where it's like Surprise Mother effers, his name is Neal, booyah!  Deal with it.

 

Almost a year later and I still have not dealt with it.

[KingOfHearts]

Almost a year later and I still have not dealt with it.

 

Can't believe this episode is nine months old already. Yeah, you can put this naming on the top facepalm moments this show has ever done.

[Zuleikha]

Just finished and I have so many thoughts, but mostly it's utter confusion over the Marian twist. I just cannot fathom how the writers intend to make this work for the show. Robin clearly didn't know Regina was responsible for Marian's death (which I don't understand how that could have been, but okay, I'll go with it). So now there's the double whammy of the reveal that Regina was originally responsible and Marian's return. I guess the reveal of the culpability may have no emotional force since Marian's alive and Robin already knew Regina used to be an evil mass murderer, but even still I don't see how I can root for Robin/Regina over the intact family unit. 

 

However, as a viewer, I don't care about Robin/Marian. Robin's existed primarily to be Regina's love interest. His motivations make zero sense, and I haven't cared because I think the two are cute together and I like seeing Regina happy. But since I have no emotional investment in Robin outside of being Regina's love interest and no investment in Marian at all, why should I care about seeing Robin/Marian? I feel I am doomed to unhappiness by this storyline. And I really, really do not want to see Regina's success at changing herself undone by a stupid romance triangle and Regina return to villainy.

 

Also, while I recognize I'm supposed to view Marian as a good person for not betraying Snow, I'm kind of mad at her about it. She's from Sherwood Forest, which I thought was established as not even part of the Enchanted Forest. She's not one of Snow's subjects. Based on what we've seen so far, there's not much time in Snow's plot for a relationship with Marian to be developed. If Snow had been actively leading the rebellion at that point, it would be one thing. But she wasn't. She was trying to run away to live her life in safety. So Marian sacrificed herself for a stranger's safety when Marian had a child? 

 

Otherwise, I liked the episode. The Hook/Hook/Emma stuff cracked me up. 

[KAOS Agent]

Here is the showrunners' explanation for what they were doing with the Marian reveal. Their goal with Regina in 3B was to build her up to the highest high, so that Emma could "crush her life just like her mother" by bringing back Marian. Yes, this was the exact description of what Marian's return was supposed to do to Regina. Now I have major, major problems with the showrunners and their incessant belief that Regina is the most special snowflake ever because her life was just so much harder than everyone else's, but the stupid idea that losing her boyfriend of one week (who incidentally is not dead and who could conceivably decide that divorce is an option) is life crushing pisses me off beyond belief. 

 

First off, Regina has True Love with her son, she has money, a beautiful home and the grudging acceptance of the people whom she terrorized for years something which she does not regret and will never apologize for. Explain to me why I'm supposed to see how (potentially) losing Robin is life crushing. Now her entire life's happiness is tied to a man? And not only that, but one she's dated for a week? Outlaw Queen was so ridiculously contrived that I have zero investment in them because it was all based on a tattoo and pixie dust. I was even somewhat able to go along with the pairing until Regina murdered Marian. Complete deal breaker. Of course, it's this show and it's their pet, so I'm supposed to understand that True Love and soul mates or whatever will prevail. Honestly, though, Woegina is annoying as hell, so either give her back her toy boyfriend or get her off my TV.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Zuleikha]

I know you guys can't answer this, but what I don't understand is what possible purpose it serves for the show to crush Regina like this. The show has spent two seasons bringing Regina to a point where she's changed and can function as a co-parent with Emma and believable ally of the Charming gang. She can be crushed and return to her Evil Queen self, but I can't imagine anyone wants that storyline. That's just 2B redux followed by what... another chance at redemption? Or she can be crushed and sulk and feel sorry for herself and... then what? Scheming to break up Robin/Marian would be evil, but if she can't scheme, what active thing can she do? Does the show plan to have constant B-plots of Regina dating or in therapy with Archie as she attempts to get over her heartbreak?

 

I'm wondering if the showrunners overestimate how exciting it is to root for a couple in a triangle. I didn't root for David Nolan and Mary Margaret's cheating, even after I knew that Abigai/Katherine had her own true love she was cursed to forget. I rooted for David to grow some charm and come clean to Katherine about his lack of love for her and feelings for Mary Margaret (or to do the reverse and truly break up with Mary Margaret to give his marriage to Katherine a chance). I still have some issues with Charming as a result of David's crappy behavior. Likewise, I have zero interest in seeing Regina/Robin sneak around on Marian or even Robin openly date both of them while trying to figure out his feelings or seeing poor Marian's life get ripped apart by Robin divorcing her for Regina. There is just nothing interesting about this twist (although I could have gotten on board with an alternate version where Regina and Robin both learned of Regina's culpability in Marian's execution and had to see if their relationship could overcome that revelation... that would be a nice case of Regina's chickens coming home to roost).

 

Basically, there would need to be some darn unforeseeable twists in where this triangle goes in 4A for me to think this was a better idea than seeing Regina/Robin's relationship develop while Regina/Emma explored white magic together and banded against Elsa or Rumple or Belle's missing brain or whoever the main 4A villain turns out to be.

[YaddaYadda]

All I can tell you is that all of the episodes of Once are on Hulu since you seem to have finished season 3.

 

You're only 12 episodes out!

[KingOfHearts]

 

I know you guys can't answer this, but what I don't understand is what possible purpose it serves for the show to crush Regina like this.

I didn't see the purpose. I wouldn't put it under punishment for all her past transgressions, either. It was just so soapy and forced that it just seemed like a fabricated cliffhanger to make the audience angsty. After this aired, on this forum we talked about it a lot and how bad it could get. There was absolutely no good outcome of this for anyone. I agree that Regina backsliding would be a boring rehash of 2B. If she can do light magic, True Love's Kiss, be hailed a hero and get accepted by the whole cast, then I think there are other areas that would be far more worth exploring to evolve her character. The writers are just no friends to covering new ground.

 

Great job on surviving the first three seasons, Zuleikha! I hope you'll enjoy *some* of the new storylines in 4A. ;)

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

To answer your question, Zuleikha, I went straight to the source post-Season 3:

 

"We have built 66 episodes of growth for Regina and this is a very big setback," Kitsis revealed. "The question we want the audience to think about is, 'How does she handle it?' It is a very uncomfortable situation for everyone involved, it's very complicated. She's done a lot of growing and yet we know what her weaknesses are."

 

Since you've made it through three seasons of this show you know that these guys love their twists, but put very little thought into the follow through. "How does she handle it?" is a fine question to ask but the two options for Regina aren't interesting stories for the character. She can either be full on evil (completely negating everything that's happened in the past season) or she can be whiny and mopey which is lame and not something the audience wants to see from the Evil Queen. Not to mention how unappealing it is to be rooting for a marriage to disintegrate so Regina can have her man. Nothing about this story is fun. It's simply the result of these guys sitting around and thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool if Marian wasn't dead?" with no thought to how icky this makes things.

Edited March 5, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Zuleikha]

So the answer is that the showrunners do overestimate how exciting it is for a couple to be moved into a triangle. *sigh*

 

All I can tell you is that all of the episodes of Once are on Hulu since you seem to have finished season 3.

Oh that's good to know because I've been watching on Netflix and I don't think 4A is up there yet.

 

Great job on surviving the first three seasons, Zuleikha! I hope you'll enjoy *some* of the new storylines in 4A. ;)

 

I really enjoyed 3A and 3B put together. I don't think anything will be as good as S1, but I thought s3 was generally good. My husband and I started watching because of Frozen being brought in, so I hope I at least enjoy the Elsa/Anna stuff!

[Mari]

So the answer is that the showrunners do overestimate how exciting it is for a couple to be moved into a triangle. *sigh*

Well, and they're interested--very interested--in Regina's reaction to everything. For some reason, they feel see-sawing Regina around from Evil Eyes Regina, to Snarky Bitch Regina, to Woe Is Me Regina is the most fascinating part of their story, and bringing Marian back allows that to happen--while at the same time giving Regina a reason to have an unreasonable grudge against Emma, allowing for drama in that relationship.

 

I think they're counting on Regina's personality to carry the storyline.  It may for some people.  Personally, not so much, but I'm not who they're aiming for.  Robin/Regina lost me when Robin used her mass killing as a come-on.  That was just gross and creepy, and they never got me back.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

Otherwise, I liked the episode. The Hook/Hook/Emma stuff cracked me up.

 

Part of what did it for me, aside from all the awesome and adorable Captain Swan stuff, is that the story had room to stretch its legs and breathe. There were only the two flashbacks, one at the top of each hour. The rest of it was this little homage to Back to the Future (which I adore anyway) and it was really given the chance to just flow and shine. It was fun and it was funny and it hit all the right emotional beats for me, and if I just ignore the part in between Robin and Regina entering Granny's after the couples montage and the cut to Elsa coming out of the urn, it's absolutely perfect. ;)

 

And it's so frustrating because you have these guys who can write these two episodes and do wonderfully with it. I remember riding the Charming Family/Captain Swan high off these two episodes at least halfway through the summer hiatus. And then you have other episodes where the emotional things are shortchanged or swept under the rug and it's like, but this is where the drama is, you guys. This show fires on all cylinders when you let it wear its heart on its sleeve. Why don't you do it more often??

 

My husband and I started watching because of Frozen being brought in, so I hope I at least enjoy the Elsa/Anna stuff!

 

I hadn't seen Frozen prior to the characters' arrival on the show (and I still haven't seen it in its entirety, since I've only ever seen it with two small children who were up and down during it), and I loved all the Frozen stuff on the show to pieces.

[KAOS Agent]

This episode(s) shows what Once could be when they stop trying for stupid twists and just let the fun adventure happen. Trying to be dramatic or "dark but not bleak" really took the fun out of this show.