S02.E06: The 20's

[Guest]

I thought the sundress was just playing into the 'she's 9 months pregnant, she must be hot' thing.  Randall was installing a ceiling fan (repeatedly) indoors in a shirt plus sweater and Rebecca came in and took off a coat and scarf and had fall apparel, so Beth did seem a little strangely bare.  

[Bliss]

I am probably a "softie" when it comes to fulfilling the wishes of my kids, especially when they were little (oh who am I kidding... it carries on to this day)... so I was on the fence about Jack supporting Kate's wanting a different costume. I understood where he was coming from and actually thought how incredible it was that they managed to find a blonde wig, etc. Being so last-minute, I expected Rebeccah to give him the gears about that... and yet, she didn't - instead, she took the "she needs to learn..." approach. Both are legitimate parenting perspectives. JMO. I always made my kids' costumes, so I definitely know what goes into the preparations - buying material, cutting, sewing, etc. Nowadays, I see my grandkids in mostly purchased outfits - it's a different world.

Two memories that come to mind. My youngest wanted a new winter coat with a "puff" (for those of you who don't know what this is, it's a one-piece tubelike creation for both hands to fit into, with a string around the neck to hold it ... similar to the mittens on string that's threaded through the arms of a coat). She walked into the kitchen where I had the material laid out, pattern in place, and said (in an obviously disappointed tone of voice), "Oh. I was hoping for a red coat." (I'd picked grey. It was probably on sale.) She didn't whine - she simply stated her feelings. So what did I do? I packed up the grey, went to the store and bought red... all in secret (I used to sew at night after the kids were in bed). When she got up in the morning and saw her new red coat with matching puff and hood, lined in white fluffy fake fur, she was ecstatic. She still talks about this as one of her "best" memories of her childhood - the fact that I heard her and made her dream come true. (Ironically, that coat came in handy for a "Red Riding Hood" costume for Halloween.)

When my oldest was 2, she kept answering the question, "what do you want for Christmas?" with this response, "All I want for Christmas is a tree with lights." For weeks, this is all she'd say... even when asked by her puppet (she told her puppet everything - even what Daddy was getting Mommy which was a sworn secret! Bwahahaha.) On Christmas Eve, she casually mentioned that she hoped Santa Claus brought her a jack-in-the-box. There was some quick scrambling to get one at the last minute (the traffic! the crowded stores! who had a jack-in-the-box?!!!)... and yet she remembers that present under the tree and how happy she was to "get what she wanted most!"

Perhaps I felt that they had enough years left to learn about disappointment... perhaps my choices weren't what the parenting experts deem appropriate. What I do know is that my kids' memories of happy times make me smile - inside and out.

[kili]

Quote

At least 10 year old Kevin kind of got his way about going to the haunted house.  ut, only because Kate agreed with him and Jack was reasonably trying to be democratic about the whole thing

Kevin didn't really care about the haunted house (he never went in). He knew about his sister's plans to visit the haunted house with a guy she liked, so he helped her to achieve that plan by arguing they should go there first and voting with her (if they had followed Randall's plan, they may have arrived after the boy had left and certainly would not have had the flexibility to hang around until he got there).

Granted, Kevin appeared to just want to have fun trick-or-treating and he did end up getting that (because he was freed from the regimented method Randall would have imposed). He wasn't hyper-focused on getting the most candy - the candy is meaningless. He appears to just want to experience the holiday.

I don't think Randall cares about the candy for the candy's sake either. He just wants to win at Halloween by getting the optimal haul. For him, the joy is having the perfect route to maximize candy haul. He enjoys generating the perfect plan.

I don't think the Larson's were being mean on purpose. Randall complains that they talk to much before he agrees to go there and that's probably just what they did. They were actually gushing praise to him about how lucky his parents were to have such a great kid. It was just that they didn't realize that he didn't know about the neighborhood gossip about the  "lost" triplet.

Christian Bale movie is an interesting choice...that's about the time that Christian had his on-set freak-out at the lighting guy. Maybe pick somebody like Tom Hanks who is unlikely to have any skeletons in his closet (fingers-crossed).

Edited November 3, 2017 by kili

[Guest]

I think they've name-dropped 90s Tom Hanks movies once already so they probably wanted someone new. 

I don't really understand why they cared about the actor having skeletons.  That's Hollywood.  Maybe they thought viewers would be distracted wondering if Kevin's roomie was going to get hit on by Spacey, as if the show would've known of this one allegation back when they wrote the episode?  

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

IIRC, Bernadette on The Big Bang Theory had a drama free birth. 

She had an off-screen birth, which is just as good (if not better!).  Honestly, giving birth is usually (and more likely with a first child) a long and not entirely interesting process.  I do think that they could have manufactured the same drama without going overboard with Beth giving birth on the living room floor only Randall and Rebecca there to help....

[JudyObscure]

So I guess most of you don't watch, "Call the Midwife," on PBS?  Six seasons down with three more seasons to come and I can't remember a single episode without a birth, some long labors, some short, every type of birth drama known to medical history and, in almost all cases, real newborns are used -- their mothers are standing just off camera and their scenes are very short.  It's mostly home births in 1950-1960's London slums so they're just as messy as anyone could possibly want.  In fact my husband says he may never recover from the breech birth. What's more, although the cast doesn't  brag about it quite as much as the,  "This is Us," group, we fans tend to cry over every episode.  Good times.

47 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I do think that they could have manufactured the same drama without going overboard with Beth giving birth on the living room floor only Randall and Rebecca there to help....

Here's what I don't get.  Beth kept assuring Randall that he didn't need to worry because he always comes  through when he needs to, and he did!  So why, after he has proved himself as a father from that moment until Deja came along, does he still try too hard and believe  he's going to fail?

[wallofsound]

It didn't even occur to me that Kate's guy could be married based on his behavior at the bar.  I just thought he was embarrassed that she was overweight and didn't want to parade her in front of his friends.   I assumed that's what Kate thought as well and that she asked if he was married because that would be a less embarrassing topic for her to discuss with this guy.   A way for her to just avoid/deny/not come to terms with the fact that she is extremely heavy and that is the reason the guy shoved her out of his neighborhood bar and bolted out of her apartment the morning after.    

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Here's what I don't get.  Beth kept assuring Randall that he didn't need to worry because he always comes  through when he needs to, and he did!  So why, after he has proved himself as a father from that moment until Deja came along, does he still try too hard and believe  he's going to fail?

I think what they're going for is that Randall will always feel afraid he's not good enough due to his history--  Saint Jack the Martyr as his father, and adoptee from a junkie of another race. 

But I think you're right that he'd be over it all to a large extent, given his successes in life and how long ago Saint Jack died and how long he's been the black kid in a white family.  But in these shows people don't get over stuff, I think.  Or at least in this one it's too early for that.  I'd say maybe by season 6 but they've promised Jack will always be on the show, so I'm thinking he's got to keep haunting the big three.  

[kili]

Quote

So why, after he has proved himself as a father from that moment until Deja came along, does he still try too hard and believe  he's going to fail?

It's too ingrained in him. Anything less than 100% success is deemed a failure to him and that is a high bar to achieve. What he needs to fix, and what seems to be constantly ignored, is his pathological need for perfection. It's a form of OCD.  That is one thing William was good at getting Randall do - let go of perfection. 

While striving for perfection is generally a positive, it isn't when you take it to an extreme. Anything taken to an extreme tends to cause problems.

It needs to be fixed because it keeps mentally breaking Randall. From the time he was a teen (his reaction when he couldn't write the essay) to the times he had breakdowns as an adult. That's not healthy.

He's practically manic with Deja. Everybody keeps walking on egg shells around him. He needs therapy.

[limecoke]

Older people were definitely joining FB in 2008 because that's when I joined.

I liked the episode for the most part but there were some heavy-handed bits.  Loved the story of Tess's birth and I happen to love the name.  I also think10 year old Kevin is beginning to help explain present day Kevin.  

I had kids ask for Smarties amidst all the chocolate bars in the bowl. Really.

[momma2seven]

I'm not sure Beth's labor was intended to look quick and easy. It seemed like they showed her having twinges throughout that day but she was so focused on keeping Randall calm, walking on eggshells around him, doing everything as planned. I think it was meant to show that she was putting his needs first and ignoring her own. Then once he was out of the house to return the fan, she had time to relax and that's when it was realized the plan to be induced the next day was going out the window and she was having the baby then whether Randall could handle it or not.

[MissLucas]

Well, I liked how they highlighted how both Jack and Rebecca made mistakes in parenting. And we certainly saw the groundwork laid out for neurotic adult Randall. Beth deserves some prize for having put up with him during those last weeks of her pregnancy.

But what really got me thinking was the revelation that the parents had not talked yet about Kyle. It made me wonder about Kevin's refusal to talk to Jack about his problems with Randall. As I wrote last week the dialogue indicated that it was more than (justified or unjustified) jealousy caused by the attention Randall receives. What if those lovely neighbors spilled the beans to Kevin too? And probably worded just as blunt/cruel? That's a lot for a kid to take in even when the info is delivered by a sensitive adult. It would explain Kevin's resentment and his refusal to talk about it.

When I was about nine a girl told me that my best friend (her cousin) was adopted. I went home and asked my mother if that was true. My mother was absolutely shocked (for a couple of reasons the adoption was supposed to be a big secret) and made me promise to never mention it to my friend unless he'd bring it up. From the way she talked to me about it I realized that this was a very adult-serious thing and that I'd get into major trouble for not keeping my word. Later when I was clued in to the background of the adoption I did understand why it was treated as a secret. And I wondered what the hell the cousin's parents were thinking cluing her in at an age where she could not fully grasp what harm her gossiping could cause.

Edited November 2, 2017 by MissLucas

[CelticBlackCat]

16 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I do still like the show quite a bit, which is why it irritates me.  I want it to be good.  

I know some births happen like that but I would for once like to see a birth like I experienced and my friends and family experienced.  My water broke on a Monday morning at 8am, I called my OB's office, the answering service said, "I guess come in at 10 when they open."  Which I did.  And I had my baby the next day.  It was the opposite of urgent.  

Kate looked awful with that hair and makeup, and older, not younger.  I don't think she's lost any weight.  I don't see that hot dude really being into her, even just for a one nighter.  Yeah, I know some guys are into her shape.  I don't think it's that common among hot married dudes, though.  I can buy Toby because he's a loser but c'mon.  

Rebecca's speeches were interminable.  I would've rather seen little Randall trick-or-treat five more minutes.  

I'm a little tired of precious adult Randall.  I think they could do a better job of portraying an anxious perfectionist.  His tendency to blabber on about himself and his issues doesn't ring true to me.  

I'm also sick to death of the 'dead parent/spouse I just can't get over' plots.  I know, a lot of people love it, but I guess I just cope with death fine and find it uninteresting and unrealistic compared to my own experiences and contacts.  I think I'd like the show more if they'd just kill Jack and let it go and find new themes.  

This bothered me too.  A man who is married wants a bit on the side that is Kate's size?  Doesn't ring true to me.

[PRgal]

21 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

This bothered me too.  A man who is married wants a bit on the side that is Kate's size?  Doesn't ring true to me.

Maybe the guy has some weird bucket list thing going.  Gross, yeah, but some people...

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I do still like the show quite a bit, which is why it irritates me.  I want it to be good.  

I know some births happen like that but I would for once like to see a birth like I experienced and my friends and family experienced.  My water broke on a Monday morning at 8am, I called my OB's office, the answering service said, "I guess come in at 10 when they open."  Which I did.  And I had my baby the next day.  It was the opposite of urgent.  

Kate looked awful with that hair and makeup, and older, not younger.  I don't think she's lost any weight.  I don't see that hot dude really being into her, even just for a one nighter.  Yeah, I know some guys are into her shape.  I don't think it's that common among hot married dudes, though.  I can buy Toby because he's a loser but c'mon.  

Rebecca's speeches were interminable.  I would've rather seen little Randall trick-or-treat five more minutes.  

I'm a little tired of precious adult Randall.  I think they could do a better job of portraying an anxious perfectionist.  His tendency to blabber on about himself and his issues doesn't ring true to me.  

I'm also sick to death of the 'dead parent/spouse I just can't get over' plots.  I know, a lot of people love it, but I guess I just cope with death fine and find it uninteresting and unrealistic compared to my own experiences and contacts.  I think I'd like the show more if they'd just kill Jack and let it go and find new themes.  

52 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

This bothered me too.  A man who is married wants a bit on the side that is Kate's size?  Doesn't ring true to me.

 

30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Maybe the guy has some weird bucket list thing going.  Gross, yeah, but some people...

I too am having trouble believing that guy was into Kate.  It is not that I do not think Kate is pretty or that  a man can not be attracted to someone overweight.  It has much more to do with Kate's personality...whic is such a dud.  She is either resenting some woman (usually her mother) for daring to be thin and attractive or still brooding over Jack's death.  I get it, Jack spoiled Kate to the point that her life was absolutely ruined when he died.  I have no idea why a married man would want to have a fling with someone who is so obviously not a lot of fun to be around.

[OtterMommy]

20 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I too am having trouble believing that guy was into Kate.  It is not that I do not think Kate is pretty or that  a man can not be attracted to someone overweight.  It has much more to do with Kate's personality...whic is such a dud.  She is either resenting some woman (usually her mother) for daring to be thin and attractive or still brooding over Jack's death.  I get it, Jack spoiled Kate to the point that her life was absolutely ruined when he died.  I have no idea why a married man would want to have a fling with someone who is so obviously not a lot of fun to be around.

I didn't see it as having much to do with her weight.  Honestly, I think he was just out for an easy lay and Kate was a clear target.  Yes, her weight might have been part of what made him think that, but her overall demeanor was probably a bigger indicator.

[elle]

10 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought the sundress was just playing into the 'she's 9 months pregnant, she must be hot' thing.  Randall was installing a ceiling fan (repeatedly) indoors in a shirt plus sweater and Rebecca came in and took off a coat and scarf and had fall apparel, so Beth did seem a little strangely bare.  

I had the air conditioning on in March at 7 months so I can believe that Beth would be wearing a sundress in October.  Aside from that it might have been a mild October that year as neither Randall nor Rebecca seemed to be dressed for cold weather.

Does this show start at a few minutes before the hour?  I missed the scene where Jack and Rebecca discussed their favorite children and Kate's request for a new costume (what was she supposed to be?)

[Pallas]

58 minutes ago, elle said:

I missed the scene where Jack and Rebecca discussed their favorite children and Kate's request for a new costume (what was she supposed to be?)

A vet, as in years before, "but that's not pretty." Leading to Jack's buying the dog, then likely saving the dog -- and Kate's deciding to enter vet school when she's forty.

[Violetgoblin6]

Remember the scene where Kate is eating fast food in her car, looking at where the house was? What was in place of the house? An empty lot? A new house? 

Also I totally agree about Jack's worship of princess Kate. Annoying. She's very annoying to me at that age (though I do like teen Kate). The change of costume was so entitled and also that she wanted to be "good girl" Sandy. Not Rizzo or a Pink Lady. 

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Remember the scene where Kate is eating fast food in her car, looking at where the house was? What was in place of the house? An empty lot? A new house? 

Also I totally agree about Jack's worship of princess Kate. Annoying. She's very annoying to me at that age (though I do like teen Kate). The change of costume was so entitled and also that she wanted to be "good girl" Sandy. Not Rizzo or a Pink Lady. 

They didn't show it, I'm sure they rebuilt even if they didn't live there anymore. Kevin just said "where our house used to be" because it would never be "their house" again.  Our neighbor had a smaller fire than they showed on TV but couldn't move back in, took a year for insurance and money to come and then just decided to sell it, they settled in a rental somewhere else.

Jack does gush a lot, I can see on a birthday etc but indulging her and having her like him more (not just love) because he agrees with her, gives her the junk food, tells her whatever she wants to hear, isn't healthy.  We all take each other for granted but if he supported Rebecca's actions sometimes, it would have been more of a united front.

I remember a look Kate on her face when Jack left and they were all in the kitchen, an argument had ensued between him and Rebecca and the look was like she was enjoying her mother's pain.  I backed it up to see it again and it really annoyed me watching. When Jack talked to Kate later about his drinking and she said "the queen said you could come back" you could see how the dynamics were set up for Rebecca to always be second to Jack in everything with no thought to her feelings. I'm glad he said to cut her some slack but that should have been long ago.

Edited November 3, 2017 by debraran

[Nikki55x]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:38 PM, elle said:

I was freaking a bit that Jack let Kevin go trick or treating by himself.  "Just the houses I can see", better night eyesight than me!  Our group always had one parent, not hovering, but near by that kept us in sight; did the same when I got to be the parent.

Are we to understand that Randall's anxiety that night was learning about Kyle which in turn expressed itself in becoming hyper-rigid?

No Randall was hyper ridged before that night, have you forgotten the list and his freaky behaviour about deviating from it. Also, before that Jack mentioned it. 

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Remember the scene where Kate is eating fast food in her car, looking at where the house was? What was in place of the house? An empty lot? A new house? 

I don't know what was there, but Kevin implied that she did that often, and that's really sad, ten or so years after Jack's death.  It was quite a big step for her to move out to LA, but I don't know how far she's progressed emotionally in the next ten years after the move.  She's pretty stuck. 

[debraran]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know what was there, but Kevin implied that she did that often, and that's really sad, ten or so years after Jack's death.  It was quite a big step for her to move out to LA, but I don't know how far she's progressed emotionally in the next ten years after the move.  She's pretty stuck. 

I wondered if it was a yearly ritual, that is happened on Halloween. My initial reaction was he knew she was there because of the time period, fall, etc.  Time will tell about that, but to keep replaying Jack going or coming into a their home is being stuck in a way that is beyond self-help. Moving probably helped in some ways but not all.

Edited November 3, 2017 by debraran

[Paloma]

16 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

17 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Here's what I don't get.  Beth kept assuring Randall that he didn't need to worry because he always comes  through when he needs to, and he did!  So why, after he has proved himself as a father from that moment until Deja came along, does he still try too hard and believe  he's going to fail?

I think what they're going for is that Randall will always feel afraid he's not good enough due to his history--  Saint Jack the Martyr as his father, and adoptee from a junkie of another race. 

But I think you're right that he'd be over it all to a large extent, given his successes in life and how long ago Saint Jack died and how long he's been the black kid in a white family. 

Speaking from experience, if a person is seriously insecure and feels not good enough, those feelings do not go away even with repeated success.  It's especially true when you are a parent, when the consequences of making a mistake can be dire (either physically or emotionally). Even when things seem to be going well, you are constantly aware of the potential for messing up. It doesn't matter how much other people tell you that you are a good parent, you only see what you have done wrong. I've never had a breakdown like Randall, but I totally understand how that can happen with someone of his insecurities.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Speaking from experience, if a person is seriously insecure and feels not good enough, those feelings do not go away even with repeated success.  It's especially true when you are a parent, when the consequences of making a mistake can be dire (either physically or emotionally). Even when things seem to be going well, you are constantly aware of the potential for messing up. It doesn't matter how much other people tell you that you are a good parent, you only see what you have done wrong. I've never had a breakdown like Randall, but I totally understand how that can happen with someone of his insecurities.

I agree. I know that I have no insecurities in my professional life - I know I am good at what I do (which stems from having confidence as a student when I was a child), but I have insecurities in other areas of my life, some from childhood, that have never gone away, no matter how often I'm successful or get praise and admiration for them. 

[After7Only]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:30 PM, chocolatine said:

I thought it was OOC for Kevin to be such an asshole as to try to screw his friend out of a role. Until now he'd been portrayed as a bit self-involved but not malicious.

 

I didn't think it was OOC.  Kevin has shown that he has a mean streak when he feels like he doesn't get the attention he feels he "deserves".  We've seen it time and time again in his relationship with Randall.   He can't seem to help himself from lashing out.    He was jealous of his roomie getting the part, so he lashed out.  Although you could tell as he was doing it, he felt horrible about himself.  He knew he had gone too far.  

 

On 11/1/2017 at 11:40 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Kate looked awful with that hair and makeup, and older, not younger.  I don't think she's lost any weight.  I don't see that hot dude really being into her, even just for a one nighter.  Yeah, I know some guys are into her shape.  I don't think it's that common among hot married dudes, though.  I can buy Toby because he's a loser but c'mon.  

 

 

Kate has a sarcastically funny personality that many men find appealing.  I will agree that wig and that waitress uniform did her no favors though.    But there are plenty of attractive, married and single men who are interested in women of Kate's shape.  Not saying it's the norm.  But it's definitely not uncommon.    I did not find the actor's looks to be distracting the storyline at all.  

[Tikichick]

On 11/2/2017 at 0:40 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I do still like the show quite a bit, which is why it irritates me.  I want it to be good.  

I know some births happen like that but I would for once like to see a birth like I experienced and my friends and family experienced.  My water broke on a Monday morning at 8am, I called my OB's office, the answering service said, "I guess come in at 10 when they open."  Which I did.  And I had my baby the next day.  It was the opposite of urgent.  

Kate looked awful with that hair and makeup, and older, not younger.  I don't think she's lost any weight.  I don't see that hot dude really being into her, even just for a one nighter.  Yeah, I know some guys are into her shape.  I don't think it's that common among hot married dudes, though.  I can buy Toby because he's a loser but c'mon.  

Rebecca's speeches were interminable.  I would've rather seen little Randall trick-or-treat five more minutes.  

I'm a little tired of precious adult Randall.  I think they could do a better job of portraying an anxious perfectionist.  His tendency to blabber on about himself and his issues doesn't ring true to me.  

I'm also sick to death of the 'dead parent/spouse I just can't get over' plots.  I know, a lot of people love it, but I guess I just cope with death fine and find it uninteresting and unrealistic compared to my own experiences and contacts.  I think I'd like the show more if they'd just kill Jack and let it go and find new themes.  

Married guy had been a regular customer at the diner where Kate was waitressing.  My guess was she thought he was cute and paid attention to him.  That's often the whole key to married men cheating -- a woman who pays them attention and makes them feel good about themselves. 

[Drumpf1737]

Is it too much to hope that we'll see Garuta later on as a friend of the family?

[sandyskyblue]

This season and last season remind me of some movies and their sequels: the first movie is always the best and the sequels, not so much....I thought the first season of this show was amazing....seems to me like they are trying too hard with this second season and some of it doesn't work for me....what did work for me, personally, was Rebecca crying after Tess was born, and talking to Randall about Jack not being there for it....the same happened to me when my first grand baby was born: thrilled to have a grand daughter, but at the same time, sad that my husband was not there to meet her as he had passed 3 years earlier....and I also loved Rebecca talking to Tess interspersed with talking to baby Randall, so sweet....

[Crs97]

Quote

I thought the sundress was just playing into the 'she's 9 months pregnant, she must be hot' thing.  Randall was installing a ceiling fan (repeatedly) indoors in a shirt plus sweater and Rebecca came in and took off a coat and scarf and had fall apparel, so Beth did seem a little strangely bare.  

When I was eight months pregnant in Wisconsin in December, I was still wearing shorts and short sleeves while husband and children were in sweaters and jeans.  Husband finally asked me to turn off the a/c when it snowed.  He called me his little thermonuclear reactor.

[Black Knight]

I used to read a football blog that was a bunch of adult men posting, and once they got onto the subject of very overweight women. They were pretty crass about it, so I apologize in advance, but it was eye-opening as they either didn't know or didn't care that any women might lurk. In any case, no guy said that they hadn't or wouldn't - and not because they were "woke" men, because they sure weren't trying to pretend to be that. It wasn't the first or last time they were giant pigs. Anyway, the consensus among them was that those women were better at things like giving blowjobs, and were willing to go further, because on account of their weight they had to try harder. As such, it doesn't surprise me that this guy wanted to sleep with Kate. It was a hook-up. For hook-ups, what sort of time you expect to have in bed is more important than how someone looks.

[Texasmom1970]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:09 PM, betha said:

Major tearjerker! And that was even before Jesus, etc., which is a particular tear trigger for me. I love how this show shows that life is all connected... our past is our future is our present, all at the same time. 

 

But naming Tess after a fan, really!?

Well people name their children after cars, liquor and cologne so anything is possible!

[PRgal]

41 minutes ago, Texasmom1970 said:

Well people name their children after cars, liquor and cologne so anything is possible!

I wonder if Beth ever found out that Tess was named after a fan!  Heck, I wonder how TESS feels about this!

Edited November 4, 2017 by PRgal

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

I wonder if Beth ever found out that Tess was named after a fan!  Heck, I wonder how TESS feels about this!

I got my name because my mom thought I was too big for the name she had previously picked out for me.  Being named for a fan might be an improvement over that.

[Guest]

Too big?   What could ones's birth weight possibly have to do with their name?   

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Too big?   What could ones's birth weight possibly have to do with their name?   

Perhaps if the original name was Christine/Christina and the planned nickname was Teeny - which connotes smallness? It's still ridiculous but I can see how it would make sense in some people's minds.

[Katy M]

31 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Too big?   What could ones's birth weight possibly have to do with their name?   

The original name was Tina.  My mom thought that a Tina should be small.  My older sister was 5 pounds something when she was born, I was 8 pounds 2 ounces, so in comparison, I was huge. LOL.

[Clanstarling]

Names are weird. I named my youngest daughter with the expectation of using a particular variation on the name as a nickname. It never suited her, but a different variation did.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Clanstarling

[chocolatine]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

The original name was Tina.  My mom thought that a Tina should be small.  My older sister was 5 pounds something when she was born, I was 8 pounds 2 ounces, so in comparison, I was huge. LOL.

That's messed up on so many levels. Eight pounds is a perfectly healthy birth weight.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I got my name because my mom thought I was too big for the name she had previously picked out for me.  Being named for a fan might be an improvement over that.

My name was going to be Christian, and when I came out they realized I was a heathen, so they scrapped it immediately. I was a loud baby, and remain a loud adult. I like what they chose, so it's all good.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

I wonder if Beth ever found out that Tess was named after a fan!  Heck, I wonder how TESS feels about this!

It is a name though! https://www.babynames.com/name/tess

[stonehaven]

I streamed this episode..and yes, it had a bit too much melodrama with Kevin trying to steal the part...I liked parts of it..but my question is who was the director that Kevin was  sucking up to?

The streaming actually had the "Christian Bale" reference dropped in so well that you couldn't tell it was added...and it was also in the closed captioning....but the part that got me was the conversation between Rebecca and Randall about Kyle. I was about nine years old when I found out about my late brother....and after that, things don't feel the same....so Randall's reaction at Kyle was spot on.....and  as cliched as the random wise dude was for Randall, I felt the writers were trying to emulate the doctor with Jack when the kids were born.....

It may not have been my favorite episode but better than the NCIS episode right before it.

[possibilities]

On 11/1/2017 at 10:59 AM, abbey said:

I would have been skeptical also but then I went to a friend's house last night.  There were cars parked on both sides of her somewhat narrow street.  Kids and adults rambling all over the street and just general chaos.  I was able to make it to her house but only with difficulty and all of this went on for several hours.  An ambulance would have been , at the very least, delayed 

Put on the sirens and the flashing lights, and everyone gets out of the way. It's not like negotiating the streets in a regular vehicle during a regular traffic jam. I can say they might have been afraid to speed too much in case some kid was slow in moving to the sidewalk, though. It seemed like Beth gave birth in about an hour, based on her being well into it before Randall even got the fan, and her finishing with in moments of him arriving home after they called him. Even so, the ambulance ought to have been able to get there faster than that, unless they didn't realize it would happen so quickly and didn't call them until after they called Randall. I guess that makes sense, too, though, because why would they expect it to happen so fast? I like what someone said upthread about maybe she was in labor all day, and didn't really admit it to herself, and didn't relax until Randall left the house, but a lot of women have contractions on and off well before they are actually read to give birth, it can go on for days or weeks, intermittently. So again, she might have been aware of it but not really taking it seriously for that reason, too.

On 11/1/2017 at 9:33 PM, GSMHvisitor said:

I don't take that scene as contradicting Kevin's current struggles. I always took it - and of course that's pure speculation on my part - that what's haunting Kevin now is not so much the mere fact that his father is not there anymore, but that there's more to it, like they had a big fight right before and and maybe he said ugly things to his father and he can never undo that anymore or apologize for it and has to live with the fact that their last encounter ended badly. Like I said it's pure speculation, I have nothing to base this on, but Kevin's delayed strong reaction to Jack's death does seem a bit out of nowhere considering certain scenes from s1, so that's the theory I'm going with for now.

I think the trigger for his recent decline is also related to his injury. He was injured recently before we are led to believe Jack died. Maybe he was in pain then,  he was certainly worried about losing his dream of a sports career and we already know he's always been the kind to lash out or act out instead of talking about what's bothering him, because we've seen him behave that way a lot. So maybe back then he lashed out at Jack, maybe he even blamed him for the injury, whether or not that was sane. Then Jack died and he couldn't undo any of it.

Doing the film about war, where he's basically supposed to rescue a father figure, and instead he got injured on set, lashed out at Kate, and is now worried about losing the role, ruining his career again ("I fucked up again! I'm a failure!!"), maybe he's afraid of losing Kate over it like he lost Jack (however irrational that analysis may be), add the addictive pain meds to the stew, and you have a guy falling apart.

I had a trauma that I spent a lot of time dealing with decades ago, and it hasn't been an obvious issue for me in ages. But recently something happened that upset me a lot, and I had to work really hard at not picking up the same coping dysfunctions and it made me think again about the original trauma, as well. I think we all have grooves we fall into during times of stress. And Kevin was always shown to have incompletely addressed his issues, so he falls farther and has a harder time pulling out of it when he stumbles.

A similar thing could apply to Randall. He had a chronic stressor in addition to his original infant loss. So he has his way of handling that, which has served him well in some ways and causes problems in others. I think it's credible. I don't know a lot of people who don't have their issues. Most people are either complaining about or giving each other slack all the time because they know "oh, that's their thing, you have to love them anyway or kick them to the curb, because that's just how they are."

On 11/1/2017 at 9:53 PM, Johnny Dollar said:

Ok. So Kevin doesn’t treat Miguel like crap because Miguel is an awful person who moved in on his best friend’s wife after he died. Kevin treats Miguel like crap because Kevin has literally always been an asshole. 

Heh. Yeah. They might be setting up the idea that sometimes you're just wrong and behaving badly. So far that hasn't been the show's M.O. but it wouldn't surprise me if they did go that way with it. It's realistic, people are assholes sometimes, without justification.

On 11/1/2017 at 11:12 PM, qtpye said:

 

Kate is not competition.  It is not just because of her gender.  She clearly dotes on Kevin and lets him take center stage.  Heck, in the pilot, her whole life was Kevin, until she met Toby.    Kevin also loves Kate, but she is not a well behaved OCD braniac that makes him feel bad about himself.

This.

On 11/2/2017 at 0:40 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

His tendency to blabber on about himself and his issues doesn't ring true to me.  

 

I have known way worse blabber-ers. I think it's definitely a thing people do. I even head a book by a clinician who called it "a wall of talking"-- but it happens even with people who aren't clinically unbalanced. I mean, I've had people do it to me at work, at bus stops, at parties, and elsewhere. It happens to a lot of people when they get nervous; it's somewhat surprising to me that not everyone has encountered it. Some people withdraw inward, other people spring a leak and spew. I think Randall alternates between both extremes, and lately he's been in the spew zone, probably because after his breakdowns he realized that he held things in too much and that's what brought them on. So he goes through an out of control over-corrective phase. It's not wonderful, but I've seen worse coping dysregulation, including on this show. He doesn't crap out on his responsibilities or use drugs or lash out or backstab like Kevin. He's not a whiney, self-pitying, chronically stuck, complainer like Kate. He has a mostly healthy, stable marriage. But he's having a rough time and not at his finest in recent episodes.

Beth is gorgeous and awesome in every era, whatever they do with her wardrobe or hair, and whatever the circumstance. I actually find her character to be portrayed as being WAY more of a perfect parent/partner/person than Jack, who makes everyday mistakes AND has been given some major flaws.

I thought little Randall was dressed as James Brown, but I had just been listening to a story about JB's life and death a few hours before I watched the episode.

I don't find the speeches on this show to be as contrived as most people seem to find them. Maybe I've spent too much of my life around people who are extremely verbal and not shy about expressing it, but it usually strikes me as fairly believable. Especially at peak moments, like meeting a new baby, or when something else really intense is going on, I have known a lot of people who reach out with words as a way to create connection and provide comfort. It's more obviously thought out and organized on a tv script than in real life, but that's true of everything that happens on tv.

I hated Jack undermining Rebecca in front of Kate. Rebecca was the one who had to do the work to make a new costume at the last minute. He had no right to volunteer her to do that. I also thought that putting the ToT approach to a vote was a bad idea. The twins will always outvote Randall, leading to him being even more marginalized. I was sympathetic to Randall wanting to "maximize the candy" and wouldn't have considered it a manifestation of anxiety. He didn't want licorice, he didn't care about the haunted house. He wanted the good candy! It's valid! Even if he was anxious, belittling him about it is only going to make it worse. Kevin didn't care about the candy OR the haunted house-- he just wanted to support Kate and run around in the dark with the other kids and wear his costume. Also valid! And Kate wanted to try to connect with Cute Boy-- I'll say that's valid, too. I wish that Kate had confided in Randall about her agenda. He probably could have devised a plan to make all of that happen so they'd all get what they wanted! But we really haven't seen anything of the relationship between Kate and Randall, and that makes me sad.

I have to admit, little Kevin with his cigar was very convincing to me. The kid acting that part is really funny.

Kevin and Kate were both total shits gossiping about Randall in his own home when they showed up after Tess was born. No wonder he's an anxious person if his family is full of two-faced, backstabbing, derisive little shits.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

It is a name though! https://www.babynames.com/name/tess

I know that, but I assumed Tess was short for Teresa or something like that.  And I read Tess of the d'Urbervilles in high school.  

[Guest]

On 11/4/2017 at 11:51 AM, possibilities said:

I have known way worse blabber-ers. I think it's definitely a thing people do. I even head a book by a clinician who called it "a wall of talking"-- but it happens even with people who aren't clinically unbalanced. I mean, I've had people do it to me at work, at bus stops, at parties, and elsewhere. It happens to a lot of people when they get nervous; it's somewhat surprising to me that not everyone has encountered it.

It's not weird to me that someone would blabber on about their lacks and fears to strangers, just that a supposed anxious perfectionist would.  I know many and they put a lot of effort into appearing perfect and strong.  To appear flawed is painful to them.  So that cathartic blabbing isn't common.  Everyone's different, though.  

Edited November 6, 2017 by Guest

[JudyObscure]

 "Tess of d'Urbervilles,"  is where I first  heard the name, but I've seen it many times since, Tess Harper the actress, and many ordinary people.  Really, just because you see a name somewhere doesn't mean you have named the baby "after," that thing or  that fan or that book or even that  person.  Lot's of people are named Brad who weren't named after Brad Pitt.  Usually when someone is said to be named "after," someone it's an older relative.  Randall just got the idea from part of the fan's brand name.

[BoogieBurns]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Kevin and Kate were both total shits gossiping about Randall in his own home when they showed up after Tess was born. No wonder he's an anxious person if his family is full of two-faced, backstabbing, derisive little shits.

I disagree. My sisters and I are an odd number (3), and we happily pick on one at a time. When I get pregnant, I guarantee my sisters will text each other, "well it looks like someone finally got laid." Or something similar. We are just being silly, not devious. Take the adopted sibling aspect out, and siblings single one out all the time to pick on. We are all grown, and we love each other. 

Ex: My middle sister had a baby in March. About a week before she was due it looked like the baby would be born on my birthday. My oldest sister texted me, "let's hope the baby has your birthday and looks like you, we all know [Middle Sister] was an ugly baby." We laughed; harmless. Baby wasn't born on my birthday, but she came out looking EXACTLY like me. We were all relieved, including the middle sister who then admitted to being an ugly baby (beautiful adult).

[MissLucas]

Yeah, I have two older brothers and an older sister - and the Kevin Kate combo sounded like pretty standard sibling-talk to me.

[jacksgirl]

I'm calling shenanigans on Randall and Beth not knowing the sex of their child. Randall is painted as obsessive about many things, at the least, we know he tends to be a planner. Very out of character that they chose not to know.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

I'm calling shenanigans on Randall and Beth not knowing the sex of their child. Randall is painted as obsessive about many things, at the least, we know he tends to be a planner. Very out of character that they chose not to know.

Maybe Beth didn't want to know and he decided, uncharacteristically, not to be a buttwad about it.