S07.E05: Holes

[BlancheDevoreaux]

I have absolutely no problem with blood. I've never been one of those people who freaked out when someone was bleeding.  I worked on a hospital and have even observed major surgeries.  Blood isn't the problem.  I dislike when they rely on gore to up the fear level rather than actually making it scary with the plot and dialogue.  Alfred Hitchcock, for example, did an amazing job of telling a terrifying story with little to no blood squirting out all over the place.  Stephen King is usually able to tell a great story and have the gore accompany it.  Unfortunately, there are many horror writers who either have no talent for actually writing or they have forgotten how to write something truly terrifying so they rely on blood and guts to try and scare the audience.  So far, AHS Cult had done a good job of writing for terror.  This past episode, they really dove into gore. As long as they use it to drive the plot, fine.  But in seasons past, they started relying on that more than good storylines. I don't want them to go down that path.

[buttercupia]

as creepy as kai is, he had nothing on beverly this episode. the look in her eyes gave me chills.  adina porter is killing it this season, literally and figuratively.

[ZoloftBlob]

So far, I've found the gore pretty effective. The killing of RJ was actually a pretty clever way for Kai to bind the group to himself. Once you've killed a man together, you're a lot less likely to go to the cops. And if you get lippy to Kai later, he can rightly point out that you chose to participate in the murder when you could have left the group. (although clearly, leaving the group likely has consequences...)

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

(although clearly, leaving the group likely has consequences...)

I wonder if Ivy has thought about how this will end. 

[Florinaldo]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

The killing of RJ was actually a pretty clever way for Kai to bind the group to himself. Once you've killed a man together, you're a lot less likely to go to the cops.

From what I have read, it's a frequent strategy for cults to make members participate in joint actions like that to cement their sense of belonging and obligation towards the group. Although even the more violent cults usually start with relatively minor acts like robbery, vandalism or break-ins and graffitis, before graduating to murder.

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So far, I've found the gore pretty effective. The killing of RJ was actually a pretty clever way for Kai to bind the group to himself. Once you've killed a man together, you're a lot less likely to go to the cops. And if you get lippy to Kai later, he can rightly point out that you chose to participate in the murder when you could have left the group. (although clearly, leaving the group likely has consequences...)

The only thing that bothered me about the nails is I was so worried they were going to shoot him in the eyes as I was watching it. Ugggggggh. So glad I did not see that happen.

[Chaos Theory]

On 10/5/2017 at 1:38 PM, Dobian said:

Was there a supernatural element to Freak Show?  I'm trying to remember and can't up with one.  All the things I remember were freaky, but technically "natural".

There was that one guy who showed up on Holloween to take the soul of a freak.  And I am thinking Asylum didn't have ghosts but did have aliens and the devil.

 

 

There is more then one type of Horrir just like there is more then one type of drama and comedy.  Of course there is supernatural horror which Murder House was but there is also slasher horror and home invasion horror.  I am thinking Cult is leaning towards those two.    Add to it psychological thriller and you have an intriguing idea.  Where are you safe if you are safe nowhere?  

Edited October 7, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[LoneHaranguer]

7 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

Watching this week, I had a moment of suddenly realizing how much this show has increased my tolerance for gore.  I used to need to look away, I would flinch or get squeamish.  This week, I'm totally at ease and looking straight at the TV for the whole thing, relaxed as can be.

Using Face Off as a reference, I think the quality of the gore on this show has declined. I don't know if the producers have deliberately softened things up, or if they're cutting corners.

[Anela]

I looked away at the nail gun scene. I'm still bothered by the Guinea pig in the microwave. In the first season, that was a fake-out, and the dog was fine. 

[DangerousMinds]

4 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Using Face Off as a reference, I think the quality of the gore on this show has declined. I don't know if the producers have deliberately softened things up, or if they're cutting corners.

Agree. There's gore and then there's torture porn.

[ZoloftBlob]

I'm sorry, which one was Face-Off? maybe I am just a jaded soul but I don't remember anything genuinely shocking as far as gore on this show....

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly I never thought AHS was particularly gory.   A few scenes here and there.  I think Roanoke was the worst its ever been but except for a few scenes I wouldn't even call that especially gory.     Of course you do occasional have a scene like the nail gun scene but it did have purpose that would have been lost if the show had just glossed over it.  It brought everyone (including the audience) deeper into the cult.    It made us a part of the murder.  Which made us a part of the cult.   It wouldn't have worked as well if the camera had just focused out and then back into to the suddenly dead camera man.  It wouldn't have had the same effect.  

[Dobian]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Honestly I never thought AHS was particularly gory.   A few scenes here and there.  I think Roanoke was the worst its ever been but except for a few scenes I wouldn't even call that especially gory.     Of course you do occasional have a scene like the nail gun scene but it did have purpose that would have been lost if the show had just glossed over it.  It brought everyone (including the audience) deeper into the cult.    It made us a part of the murder.  Which made us a part of the cult.   It wouldn't have worked as well if the camera had just focused out and then back into to the suddenly dead camera man.  It wouldn't have had the same effect.  

I never thought AHS was particularly scary.  It's more like a fun house ride.  Ryan Murphy aims for over-the-top most of the time which makes this show more campy and crazy than horrifying.  There are horrifying moments, sure.  Ronoake had some pretty terrifying scenes.  But mostly it's weird and freaky, and that's okay.  I really liked the Hotel season because I thought it did the best job of playing to the show's strengths.

[Stringey]

This is random but does anyone else like it when the announcer introduces the show right at the  the beginning and gives the rating. I don't know it sounds creepy and ominous. I have been watching the show on DVD(which does not have the announcer) except for this season and last and just like the creepy announcing. 

[Sile]

On 10/4/2017 at 8:11 PM, Stringey said:

Oh I noticed something interesting also in last night's episode.  Those that are familiar with the story of Charles Manson and some of the details will recognize what I am talking about. If I remember right Charles Manson favored a follower nicknamed Sadie.  Well here in this show Kai favors Beverly kind of in the same way. Maybe not sexually like Manson did Sadie but it's clear Kai thinks Beverly is more worthy. Even the way Kai spoke to her in one scene reminded me of Manson speaking to Sadie in one of the movies about him.

I'm not sure that I see it that way.  I think Mary Brunner was the top dog among the females, but Susan Atkins (Sadie) "in charge" as far as the rest of the girls because she was completely malleable and under control as far as Manson went.

Beverly is in no way subservient or under Kai's control.  She definitely has an end game and I don't think it involves Kai leading them into Death Valley.  She has her own agenda and she's biding her time and letting Kai have the group do the heavy lifting for now.

As soon he Kai said he called his brother, I literally screamed "the shrink!".  I was so pleased that I didn't see that coming.  But has it actually been established that Doc Cheyenne is part of the cult?  I don't think he'd fall in with Kai's world view, he's more of a Beverly type.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Sile

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, Sile said:

I'm not sure that I see it that way.  I think Mary Brunner was the top dog among the females, but Susan Atkins (Sadie) "in charge" as far as the rest of the girls because she was completely malleable and under control as far as Manson went.

Beverly is in no way subservient or under Kai's control.  She definitely has an end game and I don't think it involves Kai leading them into Death Valley.  She has her own agenda and she's biding her time and letting Kai have the group do the heavy lifting for now.

As soon he Kai said he called his brother, I literally screamed "the shrink!".  I was so pleased that I didn't see that coming.  But has it actually been established that Doc Cheyenne is part of the cult?  I don't think he'd fall in with Kai's world view, he's more of a Beverly type.

I definitely got the feeling Beverly is up to an agenda after Kai told his story. She either has her own plan to manipulate Kai or at the least she definitely is not under the control of Kai like the others are.  And completely off topic but I watched the first episode and I was right about something i was talking about a week ago. I had been talking about the weird atmosphere of the grocery store right before the clowns appeared and the shot of the meat behind the glass. I was pretty sure I saw piggy snout in there and i was right.  Also it was brain head clown and green hair clown going at it. Harrison and detective Samuels.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Stringey

[BlancheDevoreaux]

15 hours ago, Sile said:

I'm not sure that I see it that way.  I think Mary Brunner was the top dog among the females, but Susan Atkins (Sadie) "in charge" as far as the rest of the girls because she was completely malleable and under control as far as Manson went.

Beverly is in no way subservient or under Kai's control.  She definitely has an end game and I don't think it involves Kai leading them into Death Valley.  She has her own agenda and she's biding her time and letting Kai have the group do the heavy lifting for now.

As soon he Kai said he called his brother, I literally screamed "the shrink!".  I was so pleased that I didn't see that coming.  But has it actually been established that Doc Cheyenne is part of the cult?  I don't think he'd fall in with Kai's world view, he's more of a Beverly type.

My theory (and I'm almost never right when it comes to predicting what AHS is doing so take this with a grain of salt) is that Doc is the one who is actually in charge BUT, I don't think Kai is even aware of it.  I think the Doc is manipulating Kai so that when/if it all hits the fan, Doc's hands are clean and Kai will take the fall as the "leader".  

[HunterHunted]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:43 PM, ZoloftBlob said:

I'm sorry, which one was Face-Off? maybe I am just a jaded soul but I don't remember anything genuinely shocking as far as gore on this show....

They are referencing the Face Off TV show, which is a competitive reality game show. Contestants compete against each other to produce movie special effects make-up. The categories range from demons and angels, sci fi and fantasy, old age to gender swap, wounds, beauty, and whatever else.

[Stringey]

On 10/7/2017 at 7:50 AM, Dobian said:

I never thought AHS was particularly scary.  It's more like a fun house ride.  Ryan Murphy aims for over-the-top most of the time which makes this show more campy and crazy than horrifying.  There are horrifying moments, sure.  Ronoake had some pretty terrifying scenes.  But mostly it's weird and freaky, and that's okay.  I really liked the Hotel season because I thought it did the best job of playing to the show's strengths.

This season might be the scariest because if anything it is probably the most realistic. Realistic with a stretch maybe. There is weirdness going on but nothing supernatural or funhouse like.. We had things like the second season where it was based in a real story because there were asylums like that which had to be shut down. But that real life terror is from a while ago this story with the election is recent. And the whole clown scare that was happening recently is recent. So you got a good recipe for real life horror. Take people's anxieties about the whole political thing and up it a few degrees where people take things to an extreme. On both sides. Take the clown sightings and make them not just creepy but downright dangerous and murderous.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Stringey

[Nutjob]

And see, I feel the opposite. I don't find this season scary at all, because the stereotypes are so over-the-top they take me right out of any "horror" that might be happening in the plot. Honestly--it's like Murphy just plucked satirical exaggerations of every political/ethnic/sexual type, and plopped them all into this mish mash of a story. Why would any of these people be swayed by a creepy, 30-something hipster with no CV, no accomplishments, nothing but twerpy good looks (I guess...?) and the gift of gab? He preys on the disenfranchised, but why would Ivy and Winter ever be working with Gary? Or Gary with Ivy or Harrison? Or Beverly with any of them? They all seem smarter than this! (Except Meadow, maybe, and she's trying to get out!) They don't want the same outcomes! Yeah, burn things down, but then what? What is the utopia they think Kai is giving them after? It makes no sense that any of them would follow him! And now that the covers are all pulled on the serial killing clowns and who is terrorizing Ally, it's even less scary. Ally is a walking, talking, progressive-white-rich-liberal caricature, and if I was a progressive I'd probably be offended. As a moderate conservative, I'm just finding this season silly and maybe the second worst only to Hotel. This one isn't falling apart halfway through, it was a hot mess from the start, and I'm only watching for the chaos at this point.

[Terrafamilia]

Though I'm not really into gore I can generally handle it. On the other hand, the nail-gun team-building exercise went rather too far into torture porn territory for my liking.

[Stringey]

3 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

Though I'm not really into gore I can generally handle it. On the other hand, the nail-gun team-building exercise went rather too far into torture porn territory for my liking.

I can handle it. Although it was very creepy especially because it was filmed from the pov of the victim. Like we were seeing it through his eyes as they each put that nail gun to his head. I just am thankful they did not shoot him in the eyes I think I would have been screaming. That is my pet peev in horror. Also did anyone else notice that when winter shot him she had tears on her face.

[GoneGirl]

On 10/6/2017 at 0:05 AM, ZoloftBlob said:

I think gore is expected.

I just want some semblance of a coherent plot.

Maybe I am wrong but I DO feel the plot is coherent.

[DangerousMinds]

I don't see it as coherent at all, just ridiculous.

[ZoloftBlob]

I think it wants to be coherent, I know I want to hit the final episode and be awed by where it went... but part of the problem I am having is that I've probably watched too much ID Discovery to believe this really rather small group of people is running around sloppily murdering people in increasingly public places and aren't already arrested. 'Kai is doing this because Kai wants anarchy' isn't enough plot for me.

And I do think that it's happening in a public, modern setting makes me nitpick things more than I would for say, Freaks. For example - Ivy is currently somewhat hesitant about the violence of the cult but it's now revealed that she knew about the cult from day one of the show. So when she agreed to let Ally check on the the restaurant alarm, she knew the cult had already murdered one of her employees - her head chef as I recall - for Ally to find. If it's all orchestrated, then she knew Harrison had given Ally a gun, and she knew she was sending Pedro to Ally the gun wielding paranoid. So Ivy has had her hand in two murders but is cringing now? No OTHER neighbors are extra watchful after the city councilman was murdered? No one else in this town reported the dead birds and trucks even though Meadow said it was done all over the city? Two different reporters are murdered violently on camera and that's not national news? Even after the cult intentionally filmed the second while chanting "Ave Satanas"? Expressly to get attention? And there was an unexpected but totally exploitable kinky sex aspect and we don't have Anderson Cooper doing live updates while Ana Navarro gives color commentary on the murders sweeping this Michigan city?

[Fusion]

13 hours ago, GoneGirl said:

Maybe I am wrong but I DO feel the plot is coherent.

I think that the plot is coherent.  It shows how Kai is able to manipulate and gain followers.  I just find the timeline confusing.  Except for election night, I am not sure when events are happening and in what order.  The latest episode had flashbacks within flashbacks.  How much time has passed since the election?

 

2 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

For example - Ivy is currently somewhat hesitant about the violence of the cult but it's now revealed that she knew about the cult from day one of the show. So when she agreed to let Ally check on the the restaurant alarm, she knew the cult had already murdered one of her employees - her head chef as I recall - for Ally to find. If it's all orchestrated, then she knew Harrison had given Ally a gun, and she knew she was sending Pedro to Ally the gun wielding paranoid. So Ivy has had her hand in two murders but is cringing now? 

I wondering too how long it took Ivy to become OK with murder.

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, Fusion said:

I think that the plot is coherent.  It shows how Kai is able to manipulate and gain followers.  I just find the timeline confusing.  Except for election night, I am not sure when events are happening and in what order.  The latest episode had flashbacks within flashbacks.  How much time has passed since the election?

 

I wondering too how long it took Ivy to become OK with murder.

How long did it take her to get used to the idea of kidnapping someone too. Now way she was a normal person that just thought suddenly that was a good idea.

[zafirkalvinS]

On 9/29/2017 at 8:02 PM, deaja said:

Quote

Beverly's journalistic integrity is called into question. Kai plans to broadcast a gruesome murder committed by Redtube Beeg Spankbang the cult. Ally's phobias reach a new low.

I don't remember names, but Dermott Mulroney.... was he licking the guys blood off his fingers?