S02.E05: Dallas

[PrincessPurrsALot]

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After learning about Tulip's secret relationship, we revisit Jesse and Tulip's rocky past and see a darker side of Jesse.

[TigerLynx]

I felt bad for Viktor before the Saint of Killers ever showed up.

Had to laugh at Tulip's, "This would never have been a problem if we hadn't come to New Orleans."  Because having a secret husband who is a big time criminal with lots of money would never have been a problem if they had just stayed out of New Orleans {Face Palm}.  There was nothing else to worry about in that scenario except New Orleans {Double Face Palm}.

Cassidy should get away from these two before he ends up dead dead.

With Viktor, there was a softness and sweetness to Tulip for a few seconds in that scene.  It was interesting.

Edited July 18, 2017 by TigerLynx

[AimingforYoko]

I do like shows that aren't afraid to show their protagonists as assholes and Jesse really leaned into that side of himself this episode. Glad he finally snapped out of it, even if he did end up killing Viktor indirectly.

[SoSueMe]

Okay now I'm really afraid of what will happen if/when Jessie finds out that Cassidy and Tulip got together. I love that Cassidy is more human than most of the humans in this story.

Edited July 19, 2017 by SoSueMe

[BuddhaBelly]

What was Cassidy up to there? It almost seemed like he wanted Jesse to kill Victor so that Tulip would end things with him. She doesn't want you either and, my word, when Jesse finds out about that little hook up nothing is going to stop him.

[thuganomics85]

On one hand, Jesse losing his damn mind on Viktor, beating him up, and even hanging him in his own torture room, is pretty damn scary and extremely over-the-top, to say the least.  On the other hand, the fact that Viktor is someone who actually has a torture room for Jesse to drag him to kind of doesn't really make him come out looking good, to say the least.  Glad Jesse didn't go through with it, because I do think it would be something he couldn't come back from, even if Viktor isn't exactly an innocent guy here.

For a second, I thought Cassidy was trying to go for some kind of reverse psychology with Jesse, but judging from his reaction at the end, he really did want Jesse to do it and cause Tulip to breakup with him.  Tsk tsk, Cassidy.  You better hope Jesse doesn't find out about your fling with Tulip, or he'd might make what he did to Viktor seems like child's play.

Jesse inadvertently still causing Viktor's death by sicking the Saint of Killers on him, was an ironic end for the character.  But I wonder if SOK will go through with killing the daughter or not.  Honestly, she has the potential to make Viktor look like an amateur.

A flashback-heavy and somewhat slower episode then normal, but it was interesting seeing how Jesse and Tulip originally ended it, and all the scenes were well-acted by Dominic Cooper and Ruth Negga.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, Jessie is seriously all kinds of messed up. Not that Viktor is an innocent bystander (he did have a torture room in his house after all) but killing someone for marrying your girlfriend when you were broken up is all kinds of messed up. I actually thought the scene between Victor and Tulip in the flashback was rather cute, and he seemed to be a loving (if very unconventional) parent, so I still felt bad that he got killed. Jessie should hope the Saint of Killers kills that girl, as messed up as that sounds. She might blame Jessie for her dads death, and she seems like the vengeful type.

I really couldn't tell if Cassidy wanted Jessie to kill Viktor or not. Sometimes it seemed like he did, and sometimes he didn't. The guy is in a weird spot, as he seems to have more than friendly feelings towards Tulip, but he also really cares about his BFF Jessie, so who knows where he really stands.

Of course, Tulip, none of this would have been a problem if you hadn't gone to New Orleans! Oh Tulip. I love you, but long term planning is clearly not your thing.

[Lantern7]

So. Basically, Jesse has already been in Hell . . . or at least this show's version of Hell. And that might apply even if the comic canon stuff comes into play.

"I took him down. I mean,I took . . . him . . . down. Off the harness. Gee whiz, what did you guys think I meant?!?" Kinda lame execution, truth be told.

And speakin' of execution . . . howdy, Saint!! Nice that the show has a Mack truck that can run over everything in sight.

[Mr. Sparkle]

My least favorite episode this season, by far. I was looking at the clock by 9:18. Kind of a mean-spirited, pointless episode. YMMV. 

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, I think I'm firmly on the Saint of Killers' side with regard to Jesse.

[TigerLynx]

I was thinking Tulip should go back to Viktor, or get together with Cassidy because she would be better off, then Jesse said, "I'm bad for you," and Tulip said, "We're bad for each other," and I said, "Hell, you two aren't exactly a ray of sunshine for anyone else," and I decided Jesse/Tulip should stay together, and Cassidy should run like crazy in the other direction.

Tulip was wrong for lying about the bc pills, but I could understand why she didn't want to try again while Jesse was so depressed and being so mean.  I'm not sure why Tulip wanted Jesse back.  Tulip, Cassidy, Viktor, for the most part, seem to be okay with what they are, and enjoy life.  Jesse not so much.

[Snookums]

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  On the other hand, the fact that Viktor is someone who actually has a torture room for Jesse to drag him to kind of doesn't really make him come out looking good, to say the least. 

"He beat me and left me for dead in my own torture room!"

"Wait, what? You have personal torture room?"

"Okay, look, I know how it sounds...."

[BuddhaBelly]

I mean, none of these people are good people..at all, so I don't see how Tulip would be better off without Jesse. She's the one who wanted him back into their mess of a life in the first place. Granted he was severely depressed, on the cusp of alcoholism and suffering from tragic hair...but again, they're as bad as each other.

Cassidy is up to something and now I'm curious to see how that's going to play out.

[Eulipian 5k]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

I was looking at the clock by 9:18. Kind of a mean-spirited, pointless episode. YMMV. 

I was sick of Jesse after the third swig of that beer. Why were they even "trying" to have a kid? To share this luxurious and thrilling life of a couch potato? For a second there I was looking for Badger and Skinny Pete to show up.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I will say that the flashbacks showed how much difference a hairstyle can make. 

[TigerLynx]

1 hour ago, Superclam said:

I will say that the flashbacks showed how much difference a hairstyle can make. 

Hee!!!

I realize aspiring to a life of crime is not good, but Tulip did have a point when she told Jesse they used to be happy and have fun.  What was Jesse's plan for their life in Dallas when he was bartending, and spending the rest of the time on the couch looking miserable?

I laughed at Tulip's, "He has two pools.  Who wouldn't want to marry someone with two pools?"

Also, Viktor's, "I was nice to her."  Ouch!!!

[LadyOracle]

I really liked this episode. It gave us incite on Jesse and Tulips past, but I'm still wondering about Cassidy and that french dude. Lol

I find it so weird that Tulip is such bad cook. Where she comes up with this crap?? Peanut butter pot roast, vanilla hash brown?? Yuck. I know she's an O'Hare and she didn't have much of a family, but she can do a little better. But I loved what Dany said she can't eat it because its a human being thing....it's disgusting. ? 

Why couldn't Tulip just tell Jesse that she wanted to wait to have children rather than lying about being on BC? 

Are they not allowed to have sex in any other position other than missionary? Is that one of Jesse's religious quirks?

I'm very suspicious of Cassidy now. He really wanted Jesse to kill Viktor thinking Tulip will run into his arms. It makes me thinks about the episode in the first season where Eugene's dad held him in jail and reading Cassidy rap sheet and one arrest where Cassidy said it was a crime of passion. It seems he can't shake his feelings for Tulip and something bad is going to happen between the three, mainly Jesse and Cassidy.

[Babalooie]

55 minutes ago, LadyOracle said:

I'm still wondering about Cassidy and that french dude. Lol

Yeah, I can see Cassidy eventually having him for dinner.

[Snookums]

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With Viktor, there was a softness and sweetness to Tulip for a few seconds in that scene.  It was interesting.

You could see her making herself respond to him. The tiny hesitations and deliberate "cute" things like wearing his shirt; she was trying so hard to convince both the people in the room that she wanted this, wanted him. The problem, of course, is that she does want "this", the lifestyle; as Jesse said, she married Viktor because she wanted to be a criminal with lots of money. All she has to do to keep it is grit her teeth every second with the man who isn't the love of her life. Jesse was in his own personal hell in Dallas, but Tulip's was in New Orleans.

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I find it so weird that Tulip is such bad cook. Where she comes up with this crap?? Peanut butter pot roast, vanilla hash brown?? Yuck. I know she's an O'Hare and she didn't have much of a family, but she can do a little better. But I loved what Dany said she can't eat it because its a human being thing....it's disgusting. ?

 

 This kind of thing is where the show veers off track, in my opinion. I don't care how domestically challenged you are, there is no such thing as peanut butter pot roast. There just isn't. You could have had her destroy the roast by more conventional means, like her cooking it for HALF AN HOUR, my God, the thing would still be raw--or have her make peanut butter and pot roast sandwiches because they don't have any mustard, or something along those lines--something that follows a tragically flawed and ludicrous chain of tortured logic, but at least said chain exists. 

But somebody thinking those things just "go" together in any kind of plausible reality is flatly ridiculous, and it makes Tulip seem both stupid, which she's not, and flimsy as a character. O'Hares may not have a lot of grounding in how to be a regular couple or whatever, but there's messy/sloppy/eating cereal for every meal and being portrayed as somebody who has never, ever set foot anywhere near a stove, fridge, or restaurant.
 

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 I'm not sure why Tulip wanted Jesse back. 

 

Danny--the woman who came to The World's Most Horrible Dinner Party--found Carlos, the guy who betrayed them and caused Tulip's miscarriage. She didn't think that would ever happen and was trying to convince herself she was settled and happy with Viktor, but when she got that call her real self shed that shirt and Monopoly game like a snakeskin. Being able to kill Carlos, in Tulip's mind, was what was needed to put her and Jesse back on the right track together.

[johntfs]

14 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I was sick of Jesse after the third swig of that beer. Why were they even "trying" to have a kid? To share this luxurious and thrilling life of a couch potato? For a second there I was looking for Badger and Skinny Pete to show up.

"They" weren't trying to have a kid, hence the birth control pills.  Presumably the idea was that somehow having another child would paper over the grief Jesse and Tulip felt over the miscarriage.  I will say that even though I don't really see Tulip as "mom" material, she'd make the best "cool aunt" ever.

You know, as weird as it sounds, I kind of feel bad for Viktor in all this.  Granted that he's a murderous criminal with an actual, in-use torture room, but his only real crime regarding Tulip was treating her decently and wanting her back.  I think Jesse ultimately understood that, which is why he let Viktor go.

I kind of hope that Allie (the little girl) lives and somehow becomes the Saint's "guide to the modern world."  Like, "What are you doing?  You can't walk there, it's all the way across town.  Just wait here for a minute.  I'll call Uber."

Edited July 19, 2017 by johntfs

[ghoulina]

I really enjoyed this episode. There was just enough humor, but it was also important to get not only the Tulip-Victor backstory, but to see what transpired between Jesse and Tulip after what Carlos did to them. Their relationship is very interesting, to me, because they have said and done some HORRIBLE things to each other (Jesse even used The Voice on Tulip!), but it's not a normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. They were friends first. Since they were kids. There is so much more depth to it. Most people wouldn't be able to forgive the things they've said and done, but they somehow keep finding their way back to each other. 

I love the whole, "I took him down" - "You took him down????" "I took him DOWN" "Wait, what does 'took him down' mean????" conversation. Y'all need to work on your communication! 

I ended up feeling sad for VIktor in the end. Preacher does a great job of having no clear cut "good" and "bad" guys, which is probably a running commentary throughout the show on the whole religious ideas of good and evil. Jesse, whom I normally love, was pissing me off and I'm feeling bad for the skeevy mob boss who has people tortured in the scullery. But he was so sweet with his daughter; I found his final moments very touching. (Plus, he's got two pools, who wouldn't marry him???)

The daughter appears to be one tough little lady herself. I kind of want to see her team up with SOK to hunt Jesse down. 

Cassidy was great as usual. "Just take the lentils and watch TV with Dennis". It's a combination of the writing and his timing, but Gilgun just nails it every time. 
 

Edited July 19, 2017 by ghoulina

[ghoulina]

On 7/17/2017 at 9:03 PM, TigerLynx said:

Had to laugh at Tulip's, "This would never have been a problem if we hadn't come to New Orleans."  Because having a secret husband who is a big time criminal with lots of money would never have been a problem if they had just stayed out of New Orleans {Face Palm}.  There was nothing else to worry about in that scenario except New Orleans {Double Face Palm}.

I love Tulip. She is smart and tough, but she can also be really bratty and immature at times. She does "petulant child" in a way that I find very endearing, while at the same time it makes me want to give her a kick in the rear. I tend to think that before Viktor, Jesse was really her only relationship, so she acts a bit naive about how the whole thing works. 

 

14 hours ago, LadyOracle said:

Are they not allowed to have sex in any other position other than missionary? Is that one of Jesse's religious quirks?

I don't think it was a religious thing, maybe a TTC thing? I had some trouble conceiving my first and was on a message board for women with fertility issues. Many of them preferred missionary and would then pull their knees up after and lay there for 20 minutes after! 

 

5 hours ago, Snookums said:

You could see her making herself respond to him. The tiny hesitations and deliberate "cute" things like wearing his shirt; she was trying so hard to convince both the people in the room that she wanted this, wanted him. The problem, of course, is that she does want "this", the lifestyle; as Jesse said, she married Viktor because she wanted to be a criminal with lots of money. All she has to do to keep it is grit her teeth every second with the man who isn't the love of her life. Jesse was in his own personal hell in Dallas, but Tulip's was in New Orleans.

Yea, I don't think Tulip was better off with Viktor. She clearly didn't love him and was phoning it in during their marriage. He was definitely sweet on her, but the feeling wasn't mutual. Not saying she hated the guy, but you can't make yourself love someone. She loved Jesse. Always did, always will. Till the end of the world. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Viktor's file was one of those that Dani(?) was pitching to them at the Pot Roast ala Elvis dinner party. Tulip took the job, but was marriage part of the job? Do grifters usually marry their marks?

[FishyJoe]

So Jesse and Tulip were contract killers? If the show wanted me to dislike everyone on the show, they are succeeding. 

[Eulipian 5k]

What is the deal with the SoK? He killed the cops on the road with Jse/Tlp/& Cas even before they ever saw him. He seems to kill everyone he speaks to about the "Preacher" but doesn't kill anyone on the highways, why not? Would he kill Allie after she helps him find Jesse? Why not? He doesn't seem the type to have a traveling "companion". No spoilers requested, but WTF SoK?

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Viktor's file was one of those that Dani(?) was pitching to them at the Pot Roast ala Elvis dinner party. Tulip took the job, but was marriage part of the job? Do grifters usually marry their marks?

Viktor's wanted somebody to do some contract work.  Tulip went to work for Viktor and marriage only came later.

1 hour ago, FishyJoe said:

So Jesse and Tulip were contract killers?

Not really.  They seemed more occasional con artists/general purpose criminals.

[Bruinsfan]

21 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I was sick of Jesse after the third swig of that beer. Why were they even "trying" to have a kid? To share this luxurious and thrilling life of a couch potato? For a second there I was looking for Badger and Skinny Pete to show up.

To be fair, that 5,000 sq. ft. warehouse loft with walls full of knick-knacks was fairly luxurious. They were renting that on a bartender's wages? Who was he selling booze to, Nick & Nora Charles?

I'll give Tulip this, as dysfunctional as she is around adults she actually does seem to get her shit together and do pretty well with kids, if one overlooks that there's usually some sort of horrific criminal activity going on in the background. At the very least she knows to be calm, comforting, and keep their wellbeing in mind. I've seen lots of worse examples of motherhood, though wanting to have children with an explosively angry drunk isn't a mark in her favor.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Bruinsfan

[Eulipian 5k]

3 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'll give Tulip this, as dysfunctional as she is around adults she actually does seem to get her shit together and do pretty well with kids

This must be true because any kid that spits on me gets the torture harness in the next room. I was surprised to see Allie went with her to Denis' place, and sat alone watching TV with the creepy, angry, deadish cajun guy.

[TigerLynx]

4 hours ago, FishyJoe said:

So Jesse and Tulip were contract killers? If the show wanted me to dislike everyone on the show, they are succeeding. 

No.  Jesse and Tulip were not contract killers.  They are criminals, but they did other kinds of jobs for Dany or other criminals.  Dany keeps trying to get them to kill her husband, and they keep refusing.

I know Carlos was jealous, but that was still a very stupid thing he did to Jesse and Tulip.  Not only, would Jesse and Tulip be after him for revenge, but Dany would also be angry as would Dany's client.  Other criminals would hear about it, not want to work with Carlos, and might want him dead as well.

[pezgirl7]

On 7/18/2017 at 4:40 PM, LadyOracle said:

Are they not allowed to have sex in any other position other than missionary? Is that one of Jesse's religious quirks?

I think it was just to show that they were going through the motions.  The same reason they kept showing the same scenes over and over. They weren't having sex because they enjoyed it or to express their love. Jesse was trying to conceive because it was the only thing in his life that was worthwhile, and Tulip knew it was pointless.

I must be the only person who thought Cassidy was using reverse psychology and didn't want Jesse to kill Viktor!

[johntfs]

15 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I must be the only person who thought Cassidy was using reverse psychology and didn't want Jesse to kill Viktor!

I'm halfway there.  Cassidy really likes Jesse and considers him his best friend, but he's also crushing hard on Tulip.  What I think he'd truly like is for Jesse and Tulip to break up as a couple and the current dynamic to be switched with Tulip coupling with him and Jesse tagging along as the best friend, but there no way that's going to happen and he knows that.  So he was kind of threading the needle in his talk with Jesse.  He was pretty much advocating against killing Viktor, but in a halfhearted, "I'm with you whatever you choose to do" kind of way.

[PatternRec]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'm halfway there.  Cassidy really likes Jesse and considers him his best friend, but he's also crushing hard on Tulip.  What I think he'd truly like is for Jesse and Tulip to break up as a couple and the current dynamic to be switched with Tulip coupling with him and Jesse tagging along as the best friend, but there no way that's going to happen and he knows that.  So he was kind of threading the needle in his talk with Jesse.  He was pretty much advocating against killing Viktor, but in a halfhearted, "I'm with you whatever you choose to do" kind of way.

I disagree. I think Cassidy wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to be with Tulip but he really cares for Jesse. Rather than making a choice he's playing both sides, and I think he's naively convinced himself that there's a way he can break them up and still maintain the current dynamic. His denial is pretty big because Tulip already told him flat out that it's not gonna happen. I'm not sure he's even fully admitted to himself what he's trying to do. 

[cleo]

Just watching this show now. Using the voice on Tulip was unforgiveable, I would have probably left him for that. It's just violating someone's will and if he did it once he will do it again.

But of course it seems Tulip and Preacher are ok with treating each other like shit at times.

Cassidy, I don't know why he stays with them, I think both Tulip and Jesse have made it clear in different ways that they only care about each other and would turn on or dump Cassidy without hesitation.

It's a bit much to believe he would stay simply bc he has feelings for Tulip. Maybe bc he is overall lonely and has lacked for conpanionship throughout his vampire years...I would like to see more of his character than just a sidekick.

I enjoyed the ep but the whole point of it really seemed to build up the pressure for the inevitable shoe drop of Jesse finding out about the sex.

Edited January 12, 2020 by cleo