S01.E04: Fallout

[formerlyfreedom]

Haunted by recent events with Roller, Desna is doubly desperate to get out from under Uncle Daddy's thumb. Meanwhile, Bryce drifts deeper into the Dixie Mafia, which Jennifer isn't happy about. Polly reunites with her former gold-digging "friend", while Quiet Ann is in a lady-mess of her own. Meanwhile, Dr. Ken finds himself in a world of trouble.

 

[SimoneS]

So Roller is now Desna's guilty hallucination.  So many moments, but the synchronized swimming with UncleDaddy's boyfriend for the win. Just hilarious. I hate UncleDaddy though. He is a ruthless sociopath. Poor Bryce and Titus guy. Does the Russian/Ukraine woman who was getting her nails done know that Desna and Virginia killed Roller? That was a odd comment from her. I don't get her game.

Run Ken, run. He was hysterically obnoxious yelling at his ex-wife that her Ken doll would never make her squirt and then grabbing his penis and yelling. 

Gina Torres was gorgeous in that red swimsuit with gold studs. Heather/Pol is annoying, but Carrie Preston was so good with Nicey in their scene. I cracked up at the last batteries for her vibrator dying.

Edited July 5, 2017 by SimoneS

[FlowerofCarnage]

Uncle Daddy chowing down while a body is being dismembered a few feet away isn't the least bit shocking.

Why does Desna put up with Polly? She is a pathological liar who ripped off the elderly.

[Syndicate]

I'm in this for the crime drama PLEASE! Can we lessen the shenanigans a bit? Just a bit. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Syndicate

[Happytobehere]

GINA "MOTHERF'ING" TORRES! YES, Claws continues to come through for the viewers.  I know she ended the episode as a mark, but I would love for the show to find a way to integrate Ms. Torres into the show on a recurring basis -- a reluctant frenemy perhaps.

I know we are only four episodes in, but I didn't realize how unstable and pathological Polly is -- that can't turn out well given all that in going in the Claws world.

So now Virginia's stupidity has cost an innocent man his life.  She truly is incapable of thinking from step 1 to step 1A.  What did she think creepy-freaky-murderous Uncle-Daddy would do when she wove that tale of hers.  As Desna tried to tell her, less is more -- you can't save yourself by spinning a tale that would lead to the inevitable demise of others.

Now they have to get Ken or is it Kent back from the unstable Bryce.  How many deaths/maimings will be on Desna and Virginia's heads before Uncle Creepy-Freaky gets hip to their involvement in Roller's death.

So Desna is being haunted by Roller.  She is really struggling to hold things together.

Desna and Dean's background is coming into play.  They were in the foster care system and not surprisingly subject to abuse.  Didn't Bryce say something about his and Roller's less that delightful childhood?  I wonder if this past of unhappy childhoods served as a connection between Desna and Roller?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Happytobehere

[tennisgurl]

21 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

Didn't Bryce say something about his and Roller's less that delightful childhood?  I wonder if this past of unhappy childhoods served as a connection between Desna and Roller?

I cant imagine Uncle Daddy and Mrs. Uncle Daddy giving their kids anything close to a happy childhood, they're way too messed up and amoral for that. I continue to wonder more about the nature of Roller and Desna's relationship. Her hallucination of Roller seems to be a mix of lust, fear, grief, and guilt. I think it was a more complex relationship than the pilot showed, even if it still ended with Desna almost killing him, and him cheating on her and treating her like shit on the regular. Maybe they did bond over their messed up lives, and had a real (albeit dysfunctional) connection?

I just love the never ending stream of cool actors in really unusual parts. Like this week, we get the always awesome Gina Torres as a gold digging trophy wife having kinky affairs while her ancient husband dies of dementia! I hope she comes back, I think she's a really good fit for this show. Also, Polly is seriously messed up. She's certainly compelling, but the lady has serious issues. She seems like she does want to stop her life of crime (beyond everyone's involvement with Uncle Daddy) but she just cant stop herself.

Oh no, run Dr. Ken! I hope he makes it, I like him, in all his twitchy glory. Bryce has seriously gone off the deep end, even without drugs. Its hard to blame him though, considering he probably fried a few dozen brain cells doing drugs, and is now being forced into all kinds of messed up stuff, even though he is so clearly out of his depth. Dude is going down the drain hard.

Of course Uncle Daddy sits around his pool watching a team of synchronized swimmers performing, with his boy toy as the lead. Of course he does.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Syndicate said:

I'm in this for the crime drama PLEASE! Can we lessen the shenanigan? 

I think you are out of luck. While it is not a sitcom it is a crime farce much like Fargo

[peridot]

Polly is really messed up.  She feels entitled to living the high-life, just because she came from a humble background?  I was surprised she came back to the gold-digger at the end, I guess she felt she won something.

Desna really can't believe that the $80k is the last thing needed to get out from Uncle Daddy's thumb, if she shows her success the first time, there's no way he'll let her go somewhere else.

The doctor was coming off really annoying this episode, with his mooning over his ex-wife.  I wouldn't mind if they kill him off next week.

[Syndicate]

Roller as nothing but a hallucination is both a waste of time and a waste of a decent actor. He can be so much more! Like I said previously, I don't necessarily need him to be Roller again, but he can be a twin or some other interesting lookalike.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, peridot said:

Desna really can't believe that the $80k is the last thing needed to get out from Uncle Daddy's thumb, if she shows her success the first time, there's no way he'll let her go somewhere else.

I agree. Desna is being naive. She is going to have to kill UncleDaddy him to get away from him and even if she could get away from him, it obvious that woman with the Russians obviously has her eye on Desna for some nefarious reason. This is the problem about becoming a criminal, there is no easy way out. Desna's only hope is to grab Dean and run. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by SimoneS

[Joimiaroxeu]

Gina Torres! Yes! She looked stunning. Hope this wasn't just a one-off appearance.

Wait, there really was a Tittus/Titus company? Didn't see that coming. Stiil, though I like Dean Norris, Uncle Daddy is a rabid dog and needs killin'.

Poor Polly. But she knew her ankle monitor had a range detector. Luckily it worked out with her trophy wife friend even better than she imagined.

Roller is a hot piece and all but this ghost thing is gonna get old real quick AFAIC. Bring on the long-lost twin brother or amazing look-alike cousin.

[Lizzing]

I really wish they'd drop the Roller character altogether.  He's more interesting dead and off screen where I could suspend disbelief and think he and Desna had some kind of connection beyond sex and money, but the more he talks, even in her dreams/daydreams, the more it doesn't wash that she'd give that fool a second look.

I couldn't figure why Gina Torres' character showed up to that salon for her mani when she seemed to deem it so downmarket to start with.  It's not like she knew "Heather" was going to be there.

As I haven't had a manicure since one gave me a nasty nail infection over 20 years ago, can someone tell me why it looked like Polly was putting clear coat on the woman's skin (on the top of the fingers, between the first knuckle and cuticle line)?  I can't figure if that is a legit thing to do to for some reason I don't know, or if we're to take Polly isn't all that good at her job.

I do love the craziness of this show; that water dance was something completely unexpected yet somehow oddly beautiful.

[J-Man]

Quote

while Quiet Ann is in a lady-mess of her own.

Did I miss something or was this plotline not in this episode?

I assumed Dr. Ken was supposed to Jewish, but he referred to his "Lebanese dick." Huh?

[DearEvette]

If nothing else, this show gave us synchronized swimming to Thelma Houston and Gina Torres looking absolutely gorgeous!

I feel like something is going to break fairly soon.  Between Virginia, Desna and Bryce being traumatized by Uncle Daddy one of them feels like they are going to completely lose it.  I too hope Desna wises up and stops thinking so narrowly and starts being smarter.  Maybe she should partner up with the Russians take Take Uncle Daddy out.  They strike me as smarter than he is. And At least she might be a real partner making real money and not just a mule under their thumb like she is with UD.  I still think this show has the potential to be like Breaking Bad where Desna becomes somewhat like Walter and morphs from this hapless person with a small vision to a major player.  Also can't help but think the mentioning of the terrible foster parents was done deliberately and we will be seeing them. 

I like Carrie Preston but Polly is not really impressing me as a person or character.  It says something when I am more upset that she was able to triumph over a guest star.  I actually hope their blackmail of GT comes back and bite them on the ass.  Big Time.

[Ohwell]

I've never seen Carrie Preston in anything before, but her Polly character kind of disgusts me because she's the kind of criminal who always manages to turn herself into a victim of circumstances.  I hope Gina Torres flips the script on her.  Big Time.

I guess I've been spoiled by seeing Dean Norris as Hank in Breaking Bad, but I just don't like over the top Uncle Daddy.  He's not even remotely funny anymore.  

Desna really is a good woman, because even though Dean is her brother and she dearly loves him, he is so much of a handful that I feel sorry for what she has to deal with.  The evil part of me would be regularly visiting his ass in some institution.

[Neurochick]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for Polly?  I don't feel sorry for her entitled self.

And I HATE that she blackmailed Gina Torres' character, what an entitled, nasty, fugly bitch; maybe Virginia should pin Roller's murder on Polly, that way we'll get rid of a useless character.  WIN/WIN.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Neurochick

[tennisgurl]

I ended up feeling bad for Gina Torreses character by the end. She certainly wasn't a really good person or an innocent victim, but she really seemed to care about "Helen" and saw her as a friend and kindred spirit. She seemed legitimately heartbroken when she found out she was being played, and she had every right to tell Polly to fuck off. Were we supposed to cheer at everyone showing up to blackmail her? Because she was "mean" to Polly? Because I was 100% on Ginas side in this situation. 

[Ohwell]

What does it say about all of those bitches ganging up on Gina Torres, just based on what Polly told them?  Not a good look at all and I'm actually disappointed in the rest of them.

[DearEvette]

Yeah, I am wondering if the audience was supposed to be on their side in the end  If so, it was a miscalculation on the part of the show.  First because Polly is so unsympathetic (I find Virginia more sympathetic than Polly)and second, Because Gina didn't do anything to them to warrant what them shaking her down for money, and third, they cast Gina-Fucking-Torres as that character.  I was predisposed to love her anyway.  LOL.

But beyond that,  Polly was hustling her and admitted to making her a mark from the get go.  I didn't see her as terrible because she didnt want to open her home to a liar and con artist and someone whose real name she doesn't even know.  Also, Polly turned on Desna with a quickness when it looked like Gina was there to offer her something better.  So yeah, they are all in the wrong and I think less of them because of it.

[Neurochick]

58 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

What does it say about all of those bitches ganging up on Gina Torres, just based on what Polly told them?  Not a good look at all and I'm actually disappointed in the rest of them.

I think what's happening is the same as what happened with the show "White Collar." At some point we, the audience looks at these characters and realizes that they are not good people, they are not on the right side of the law; and then we ask if we should give a shit about what happens to them.  I think this episode and what they did to Gina Torres' character shows that these are not good, decent people and I'm not sure I even should care what happens to them.  Maybe I should watch this show the way people look at a car accident, know I shouldn't look but can't look away.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Neurochick

[PrincessPurrsALot]

9 hours ago, Lizzing said:

As I haven't had a manicure since one gave me a nasty nail infection over 20 years ago, can someone tell me why it looked like Polly was putting clear coat on the woman's skin (on the top of the fingers, between the first knuckle and cuticle line)?  I can't figure if that is a legit thing to do to for some reason I don't know, or if we're to take Polly isn't all that good at her job.

I do love the craziness of this show; that water dance was something completely unexpected yet somehow oddly beautiful.

Polly was putting cuticle oil on the woman's skin.  The timing seemed off for doing that step, but it's not unheard of to add extra late in the manicure. 

[Happytobehere]

Four weeks in and I'm still unclear on how/if Uncle-Daddy is related to Bryce and Roller.  I went to the TNT page and it offered no clarity as it does not have a "This is who the characters are" page.

Can someone help me out?

[topanga]

2 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

Four weeks in and I'm still unclear on how/if Uncle-Daddy is related to Bryce and Roller.  I went to the TNT page and it offered no clarity as it does not have a "This is who the characters are" page.

Can someone help me out?

I believe they are both his sons

[Happytobehere]

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

I believe they are both his sons

That's what I thought initially, but with the whole calling him Uncle-Daddy thing and the discussion about their childhoods, I wondered if he wasn't their biological uncle who took them in once Bryce and Roller's parents died and he literally became their "Uncle-Daddy."

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

That's what I thought initially, but with the whole calling him Uncle-Daddy thing and the discussion about their childhoods, I wondered if he wasn't their biological uncle who took them in once Bryce and Roller's parents died and he literally became their "Uncle-Daddy."

This is what I got from the conversation as well. He is biologically Bryce and Roller's uncle, but raised them after their parents died.

Edited July 4, 2017 by SimoneS

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

What does it say about all of those bitches ganging up on Gina Torres, just based on what Polly told them?  Not a good look at all and I'm actually disappointed in the rest of them.

Really? I'm not under any assumption that any of these women are upstanding, and therefore, they sure aren't going to give a crap about anyone who isn't in their crew. That Gina Torres character is just someone else they couldn't care less about. They're  just about trying to survive by any means necessary. They all have clearly been through some shit together, they know each other's horrible back stories. I really don't think there is anything they won't do if push come to shove to survive and take care of their own. They are all caught up with this Dixie Mafia stuff so I'd say anything goes. They were waiting with open arms for Polly when she got out of prison. Desna was sending Polly care freaking packages when she was in prison for crying out loud, LOL. Yet you think they are going to question Polly telling them she can't stand that woman and she can blackmail her for the money they need? Makes total sense to me that they would NOT question her.  There is no way they give a shit about Polly trying to scam the Gina Torres character, they're desperate and they sure aren't looking for anymore friends to add to their crew.  So why not? That's their attitude. To them, Gina's character is just another scam artist, she didn't break any laws but she's still low down with her hustle. What pisses the women in this crew off is that hustlers like her look down on them and it must be especially gratifying to them to stick it to someone like her who thinks she's so much better than.

One might want to try and separate them from Polly because her crime was much more reprehensible to some, but nope. Those ladies know her crimes and love her anyway, they don't judge her, and they won't be throwing her out of the group for sobbing and whining about shit that clearly was her own damn fault and fucked over innocent, helpless people. 

On another note, Roller's ghost is going to get very old, very quickly for me. They better let that die out fast and bring the actor back as someone else from the family.

Uncle Daddy is a truly horrific character, ugh, how on earth could he eat while a body was being dismembered? He's truly an animal. Sometimes I can't tell if he really loves Roller and Bryce or are they just part of his meal ticket. But then I see him getting that baby boy tattoo to honor Roller and I guess he loved him. I guess this is the only way he knows how to love/live it's all tied up in one ugly bow, but it's all he knows and clearly all Roller knew. Funny how Bryce didn't turn out that way. I mean he could still have been a prick and not been in the family business. He could have still picked up on how to treat women horribly, but he didn't.

Poor Bryce

Poor Jen

Poor Desna and her brother Dean, good lord, he's a hand full on top of everything else. I can't wait to hear more about Quiet Ann's background, something seem to resonate with her when she heard about Desna and Dean's foster parents treating them like dogs literally, eating out of dog food bowls. She did say something to Dean in the last episode about all her issues stemming from her childhood too.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Christina]

With the exception of Dean and maybe Dr. Ken, this show would be so much better if they got rid of all the men. Uncle Daddy sucks the wind from the scenes as soon as he shows up. 

[cyberfruit]

Uncle Daddy is such an over the top character that he works best in small doses. That being said, his peacefully watching his boy toy with the synchronized swimmers set to music? And saying that he was gonna make him a supermodel? Beyond perfect. 

[NorthstarATL]

It was probably just the disappointment of Roller turning out to be the tired trope of hallucinatory guilt that soured me on the episode from the beginning, but this one just was painful to get through compared to the previous episodes. The timing seemed off, and the characters did not impress me. Maybe too much time with Polly? Or Des' brother? I don't know. Gina Torres deserved better. As did her character.

23 minutes ago, cyberfruit said:

Uncle Daddy is such an over the top character that he works best in small doses. That being said, his peacefully watching his boy toy with the synchronized swimmers set to music? And saying that he was gonna make him a supermodel? Beyond perfect. 

At first I though that too was a dream sequence. I was under the impression that UD was either gay or bi, and found it typically Florida for him to have a boy toy on the side. The surgery thing is just another tired trope.

  I hope the show gets back on track. Or maybe it was just my mood.

[Neurochick]

9 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Really? I'm not under any assumption that any of these women are upstanding, and therefore, they sure aren't going to give a crap about anyone who isn't in their crew. That Gina Torres character is just someone else they couldn't care less about. They're  just about trying to survive by any means necessary. They all have clearly been through some shit together, they know each other's horrible back stories. I really don't think there is anything they won't do if push come to shove to survive and take care of their own.

I think this is an interesting and thought provoking post.  These women are NOT upstanding, but I don't think that makes them evil, awful people.  Many of us are where we are largely because of luck (IMO).  I know many disagree, but to me, I had no say in where I was born, when I was born and in what kind of family I was born into.  Some people make the correct choices but even that could be seen as luck as well.  

I used to watch "The Wire" on HBO and in season 4, the creators focused on four boys in junior high school, because they wanted us, the audience to see how some people land where they are as adults.  We really don't know too much of anybody's backstory now.  In this episode, Polly said she was from a poor family, Desna mentioned having evil foster parents.

These women have gone through time together and have been there for each other through ups and downs.  That is probably why no one turned their back on Polly when she was in jail.  The highlight of the show for me is how these women back each other up and are there for each other, even when Polly kind of turned her back on Desna to go live the "high life", when it blew up in Polly's face and she called Desna, Desna came for her.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

even when Polly kind of turned her back on Desna to go live the "high life", when it blew up in Polly's face and she called Desna, Desna came for her.

Exactly, not only that when she told Desna she was out because she'd rather be living the bourgeois life, Desna replies something to the effect of "you ain't lying..." as in, if she were Polly she would do the same damn thing. So my entire post was basically in response to folks who wonder why Desna puts up with Polly, and basically she's not putting up with Polly, Polly's her girl, she's in her crew, they have each others' backs. They know that each will do whatever needs to be done to survive and will not judge nor abandon the other for those choices. 

Now the huge test is what's going to happen between Jen and Desna when Jen finds out about Roller. And it won't have shit to do with Jen caring about Roller,  it clearly will have to do with the somewhat normal existence with her little husband and girls she was living before Desna decided to cover for Virginia in Roller's death.  Because Virginia was the only girl who wasn't originally part of that crew, she has no history with them, she was disrespecting Desnsa from the start and everyone else, so there is no reason to have her back... all that is going to piss Jen off which is an understatement.  She's rightly going to feel like Desna put her family, Bryce's sobriety in jeopardy for Virgina?! Please, give her up and let Uncle Daddy feed her to the gators instead of that innocent "Titus" guy. I'm thinking this is going to be Jen's way of seeing things.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[DearEvette]

18 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Really? I'm not under any assumption that any of these women are upstanding, and therefore, they sure aren't going to give a crap about anyone who isn't in their crew. That Gina Torres character is just someone else they couldn't care less about.

I think some of the disconnect, for me at least,  is that I think on some level we are to believe  --  with the exception of Polly -- they are still at their core decent women who got sucked into their small, insular criminal enterprise through a variety of circumstances.  Because of the hold Roller and now Uncle Daddy has over them, Desna and her crew are being portrayed as victims in a sense.  It is admirable to show the sisterhood between the women.  But there is a wide gap between caring for your crew and actively seeking out someone  who did you no wrong to willfully perpetrate a crime on them.  If we are supposed to see them as uncaring,  then they would have happily allowed Uncle Daddy to think that Titus guy was Roller's killer since that would have taken the heat off of them.  As it is the crime against Gina just comes off as a group of women ranged against another woman for no other reason than her hustle  -- which in no way hurts them or even touches on them -- is better than their friend's. 

I think this is another reason why I have such a problem with Polly. None of the other women ( so far) are being shown as unrepentant criminals.  Sure they are not Mary Sues but neither are they supposed to be hard-core victimizers either.  But Polly is unrepentant and a victimizer.  I love a good anti-hero but a good anti-hero is one whose motivation is driven by the fact that he thinks in his own head that he is really the hero or at least what he is doing, even if it is wrong, is for a greater or more noble good.  I see glimpses of it in Desna who at least is willing to work for her money, but none at all in Polly. 

[Ohwell]

I don't know if we're supposed to be rooting for Desna and her crew, no matter what, but I just think that the show took an unnecessarily bad turn in showing that the women were willing to blackmail a woman who has done them no harm.  What she does in her private life with the old geezer and the pony she was riding, is none of their business.  This is not a "sisterhood" as I see it.  

It'll be interesting to see what happens next week, and hopefully Desna or Jen will realize that what they're doing is wrong, and they get the hell up out of that woman's house.  I've seen enough of Polly and I sincerely hope that Desna kicks her to the curb. 

[jhlipton]

On 7/3/2017 at 1:00 AM, tennisgurl said:

Of course Uncle Daddy sits around his pool watching a team of synchronized swimmers performing, with his boy toy as the lead. Of course he does.

So very Uncle-Daddy!

On 7/3/2017 at 10:25 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wait, there really was a Tittus/Titus company? Didn't see that coming.

Yep, Virginia saw a box of pills from Titus Corp (but "Tie-tus" not "Tit-us" -- oh Virginia!).

On 7/3/2017 at 0:10 PM, J-Man said:

I assumed Dr. Ken was supposed to Jewish, but he referred to his "Lebanese dick." Huh?

There are some Jews living in Lebanon.  So it's not impossible that he's Jewish and Lebanese, but I think he just has a thing for Jewish girls.

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

she really seemed to care about "Helen"

Polly's "husband" supposedly started a hospital in Africa named "Heathers"...

5 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Exactly, not only that when she told Desna she was out because she'd rather be living the bourgeois life, Desna replies something to the effect of "you ain't lying..." as in, if she were Polly she would do the same damn thing.

I thought it was along the lines of "You and me both."  That's why she wants the nail solon -- it's her ticket to the bougie lifesytle.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

He is biologically Bryce and Roller's uncle, but raised them after their parents died.

For some reason I was under the impression Bryce is Clay's son but Roller was his nephew. Roller turned out to be the kind of son Uncle Daddy wanted but didn't get with Bryce.

[callie lee 29]

20 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Really? I'm not under any assumption that any of these women are upstanding, and therefore, they sure aren't going to give a crap about anyone who isn't in their crew. That Gina Torres character is just someone else they couldn't care less about. They're  just about trying to survive by any means necessary. They all have clearly been through some shit together, they know each other's horrible back stories. I really don't think there is anything they won't do if push come to shove to survive and take care of their own. They are all caught up with this Dixie Mafia stuff so I'd say anything goes. They were waiting with open arms for Polly when she got out of prison. Desna was sending Polly care freaking packages when she was in prison for crying out loud, LOL. Yet you think they are going to question Polly telling them she can't stand that woman and she can blackmail her for the money they need? Makes total sense to me that they would NOT question her.  There is no way they give a shit about Polly trying to scam the Gina Torres character, they're desperate and they sure aren't looking for anymore friends to add to their crew.  So why not? That's their attitude. To them, Gina's character is just another scam artist, she didn't break any laws but she's still low down with her hustle. What pisses the women in this crew off is that hustlers like her look down on them and it must be especially gratifying to them to stick it to someone like her who thinks she's so much better than.

Exactly. While they're hella entertaining, I don't think any of them are supposed to be good, decent people.  I also think their loyalty to the sisterhood ends at their crew (and I wouldn't even bet on that).  

 

For some reason I thought Roller and Bryce were taken in by Clay, but not necessarily related to him. I never thought he was actually their father. One of the many things yet to be discovered. 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I think some of the disconnect, for me at least,  is that I think on some level we are to believe  --  with the exception of Polly -- they are still at their core decent women who got sucked into their small, insular criminal enterprise through a variety of circumstances.  Because of the hold Roller and now Uncle Daddy has over them, Desna and her crew are being portrayed as victims in a sense.  It is admirable to show the sisterhood between the women.  But there is a wide gap between caring for your crew and actively seeking out someone  who did you no wrong to willfully perpetrate a crime on them.

Yeah see, this is the difference between the way you see them all and I see them. As  a matter a fact, I doubted the story that Polly was giving her about her "real" upbringing. At any rate,  I see them ALL as being capable of resorting to what Polly did, I do. And I think Desna can see it that way, which is why she doesn't judge Polly, which is why she doesn't separate herself and act like no not me, I would never stoop that low. Some are putting Polly in the we don't have empathy for you because you didn't have it bad and yet you decided to screw over innocent people, but Desna and her crew don't see her this way and why should they start to see her this way now? We viewers are learning just how low she stooped, but Desna has known all this about Polly, Polly's MO isn't new to Desna and Desna loves her anyway, that's what I'm trying to get across. Like I said, Desna was sending her care packages when she was in jail, as soon as she got out Desna asked her if she got the stuff she sent to her. Desna lovingly warned her about sliding back into her old ways when Gina's character left the shop. It wasn't a judgmental tone, it was a caring tone, like don't get sucked into committing that kind of crime again.  I also don't see any of them, viewing Gina's character as some innocent, nice decent woman, they don't see her that way, it's not just Polly's word IMO.  They don't care about that woman. To them she's a bullshit hustler too and she'll hustle another loser out of his money as far as they are concerned. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Giselle]

On 7/2/2017 at 7:11 PM, SimoneS said:

So Roller is now Desna's guilty hallucination.  So many moments, but the synchronized swimming with UncleDaddy's boyfriend for the win. Just hilarious. I hate UncleDaddy though. He is a ruthless sociopath. Poor Bryce and Titus guy. Does the Russian/Ukraine woman who was getting her nails done know that Desna and Virginia were killed Roller? That was a odd comment from her. I don't get her game.

Run Ken, run. He was hysterically obnoxious yelling at his ex-wife that her Ken doll would never make her squirt and then grabbing his penis and yelling. 

Gina Torres was gorgeous in that red swimsuit with gold studs. Heather/Pol is annoying, but Carrie Preston was so good with Nicey in their scene. I cracked up at the last batteries for her vibrator dying.

While he will occasionally watch some of my trash TV and he did get a few belly laughs from the show Hubby wrote this series off...until I told him Gina Torres, one of his faves, was on. 

What got him was not the red swimsuit but the little black number she was wearing while entertaining and  being blackmailed. I said it was ok for him to roll it back and pause. She does have a fine backside.

He said if she became a regular he might just have to watch.

The synchronized swimming was sooo great! God that family is crazy.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Giselle

[Giselle]

On 7/3/2017 at 8:34 PM, Christina said:

With the exception of Dean and maybe Dr. Ken, this show would be so much better if they got rid of all the men. Uncle Daddy sucks the wind from the scenes as soon as he shows up. 

Uncle Daddy is the bomb! I wouldn't want to know someone like him in real life but on TV his character is so wonderfully over the top and played so well by Dean Norris.

I'm enjoyin watching Harold Perrineau as Desna's brother, Dean. He is such a good actor.

I don't mind the men in it they aren't taking anything away from the women's characters.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Giselle

[Chick2Chic]

I enjoyed the ep. It was great to see Gina Torres - looking so very fabulous - and I appreciated getting more of Polly's back story. Carrie Preston did a great job.

Also interesting was getting that tidbit about Dean & Desna's hellacious childhood in foster care. 

Uncle Daddy is vicious but I expect nothing less from a man of his standing in the Dixie Mafia. Desna was already aware of how nasty he can be but I think it was good for Virginia to see it too as I think on some level she was still treating the Roller situation as a game. 

So Roller is Desna's guilt manifesting to a hallucination. Interesting, though kind of pedestrian storytelling-wise. I wanted a big noir twist of him being alive. I do believe it isn't just guilt solely by how there appeared to be a deep longing there too before the hallucination turned ugly. I think Desna's feelings for Roller were a lot deeper than she let on and more than we saw in the pilot ep. I also get the impression that Roller praised Desna to others despite his philandering ways which is likely why so many at Roller's funeral seemed to think she was his widow. I may still be in the minority on this but I do hope there's a twist where he shows up alive as their relationship is a catalyst for so much of the drama going on.

I love the women's friendship as well as Desna's protective nature about Dean. Seeing the platonic, familial, and romantic relationships shape Desna is fascinating. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Chick2Chic
spelling

[Chick2Chic]

On 7/3/2017 at 9:11 PM, Happytobehere said:

Four weeks in and I'm still unclear on how/if Uncle-Daddy is related to Bryce and Roller.  I went to the TNT page and it offered no clarity as it does not have a "This is who the characters are" page.

 

I believe that Uncle Daddy said in the pilot or ep 2 that he'd promised Roller & Bryce's daddy he'd raise them (something like that as I don't remember the line verbatim), so I assumed that they're his brother's sons he raised with Juanda. I think Uncle Daddy also mentioned in the pilot that Roller reminded him of [Roller's] daddy. 

 

ETA: From this Dean Norris interview:

Quote

 

I told someone I was talking to you, and he said to ask you if Uncle Daddy's relationship with Roller was platonic. [Norris laughs aloud] And I said, well, that was his son.

That was absolutely platonic! [laughing aloud]

The guy said, 'What?!' Apparently, we missed something in the first episode.

[Still laughing] That didn't read, yeah! He loves him as his son, yeah. Actually, Roller is the son of his brother, and his brother died, which we'll find out more about later. He then adopted both of the boys.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. Why Uncle Daddy? Thank you.

Yeah, it's mentioned later, but it's not really highlighted. You find out more when we talk about it later in the series. He basically raised them as his own, but he's their uncle, so they're platonic. The only non-platonic is the other strange man with the virtual reality thing in the pilot.

 

 

On 7/3/2017 at 0:10 PM, J-Man said:

I assumed Dr. Ken was supposed to Jewish, but he referred to his "Lebanese dick." Huh?

There are Lebanese Jews. 

 

On 7/2/2017 at 10:11 PM, SimoneS said:

Does the Russian/Ukraine woman who was getting her nails done know that Desna and Virginia were killed Roller? That was a odd comment from her. I don't get her game.

I definitely think that story will come in to play. I'm also curious as to how.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Chick2Chic
additional info

[Happytobehere]

Thanks Chick2Chick.  I'm saving the episodes to rewatch once the season ends to see if I can catch things I know are being laid out, but I won't get until all the pieces fall into place; so I'll check for the statement.

[Chick2Chic]

You're welcome, Happytobehere. I usually watch each ep 2 or 3 times cause so much is going on plus I am usually live-tweeting the premiere of each ep so I always miss stuff that first time when I look away to tweet. 

On 7/4/2017 at 1:01 PM, Keepitmoving said:

Now the huge test is what's going to happen between Jen and Desna when Jen finds out about Roller. And it won't have shit to do with Jen caring about Roller,  it clearly will have to do with the somewhat normal existence with her little husband and girls she was living before Desna decided to cover for Virginia in Roller's death.  Because Virginia was the only girl who wasn't originally part of that crew, she has no history with them, she was disrespecting Desnsa from the start and everyone else, so there is no reason to have her back... all that is going to piss Jen off which is an understatement.  She's rightly going to feel like Desna put her family, Bryce's sobriety in jeopardy for Virgina?!

I am eager to see how this plays out cause I know circumstances have made Virginia a somewhat member of Virginia's crew but I still haven't forgiven her for how traitorously she behaved in the pilot. Someone helps you get a job and tries to help you improve on some trade skills & your reaction is to openly disrespect that person and screw that same woman's boyfriend behind her back? Trash. Virginia still has my stank eye for all of that mess, especially cause she isn't actually sorry for what she did (unless I missed her showing genuine remorse). I can see Jen being beyond pissed that Desna didn't share the truth about what happened with her as well as the ramifications we've so far seen for Bryce so far since Roller's death. Jen, Polly, and Quiet Ann already don't like Virginia. I can see them feeling betrayed by Desna over this situation. 

I'm not quite ready to write Polly off as unsympathetic. I am still neutral on the character though I appreciate that she does have Desna's back despite being all kinds of a grifter otherwise. I adore Gina Torres but I feel like that world they live in has a kind of "kill or be killed" mentality so you're there for your crew - and to some degree a crew member's kids or significant other a la Bryce over even Roller as Jen was offering Desna her support over him in ep 3 at She She's - but everyone else is expendable if need be.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

 adore Gina Torres but I feel like that world they live in has a kind of "kill or be killed" mentality so you're there for your crew

You got it exactly right, "kill or be killed," that's how I see them and they can't afford to be any other way trying to survive Uncle Daddy's Dixie Mafia.  They have absolutely no shits to give about some woman who married for money being scammed out of it, please. They're living in a world that doesn't play by normal rules, all of them. None of them see themselves as being any better than their girl Polly.

Back to Virginia, the problem with Virginia is that she doesn't trust the crew, because she still isn't really part of it because Desna  is the only one who knows the truth. The others are still not in the know as to why Desna took her back and Desna saying that she has no one, didn't cut it. She finally shouted to them that she was the boss so Virginia stays, but they didn't buy that, well Polly sure didn't. However, Desna has always taken care of them so they let it go, they trust her. But Virginia does not, because she's still not fully welcomed and that makes her dangerous. She continues to do everything except what Desna tells her to do. I can't wait to see Polly threaten her ass about making sure she doesn't do anything to hurt Desna, because Polly has seriously been side eyeing Virgina. Virginia makes me very uneasy, and it sucks because it has been her actions from the get go that isolated her from the group, and not the women in that crew. She was straight up rude to Polly when she first walked in the shop and Polly reached out her hand to meet her, uncalled for, the list goes on and on. I have no doubt she'll end up screwing over Desna once again, talking about how she can't trust Desna when Desna has tried to help her time and time again.  Now she saves Desna from possibly being pummeled to death, after Desna saves her from being raped and strangled to death. And STILL, she goes against Desna, runs and shows back up with that shitty pigs/peanut butter, toes, and Titus story. You can not be part of a crew if you continue to take and take, then when a hand is extended to you time and time again you slap it away time and time again. She's so dumb, it never occurs to her that Desna saved her life first and she didn't have to. She could have turned around and walked right out after seeing Roller raping and strangling her. So maybe she might give a bit of a shit about me. Little does she know that Desna said to Jen and Quiet Ann when they were in the van making money drops that Virginia reminded her of herself. Dumb girl, she's going to get Desna killed.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Neurochick]

On July 4, 2017 at 5:59 PM, DearEvette said:

I think some of the disconnect, for me at least,  is that I think on some level we are to believe  --  with the exception of Polly -- they are still at their core decent women who got sucked into their small, insular criminal enterprise through a variety of circumstances.  Because of the hold Roller and now Uncle Daddy has over them, Desna and her crew are being portrayed as victims in a sense.  It is admirable to show the sisterhood between the women.  But there is a wide gap between caring for your crew and actively seeking out someone  who did you no wrong to willfully perpetrate a crime on them.  If we are supposed to see them as uncaring,  then they would have happily allowed Uncle Daddy to think that Titus guy was Roller's killer since that would have taken the heat off of them.  As it is the crime against Gina just comes off as a group of women ranged against another woman for no other reason than her hustle  -- which in no way hurts them or even touches on them -- is better than their friend's. 

I see them as women who haven't made the best choices in their lives, but they didn't exactly have the best options.

I watched the episode again and it wasn't that Gina's hustle was better than Polly's, it was that Gina's character thought herself above Polly, and didn't see herself as being a hustler, a con artist

.  "I'm better than you because I had the better upbringing."  People who are like that drive me crazy because they did nothing to obtain that upbringing, it was just the luck of the draw.  

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

You got it exactly right, "kill or be killed," that's how I see them and they can't afford to be any other way trying to survive Uncle Daddy's Dixie Mafia.  They have absolutely no shits to give about some woman who married for money being scammed out of it, please. They're living in a world that doesn't play by normal rules, all of them. None of them see themselves as being any better than their girl Polly.

Like I said before, we really don't know anybody's total backstory.  Desna and her brother had horrible foster parents; Polly came from a poor family, Virginia said her mother was dead.   It's like these women are living in some sort of alternate reality

[SimoneS]

Fabulous news! The ratings went up in the key 18 to 49 demo from .4 to .5. Plus, Stephen King tweeted that he is a fan so hopefully that spreads the word. I love this show so much now. I want a confirmed second season.

Edited July 7, 2017 by SimoneS

[topanga]

25 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Fabulous news! The ratings when up in the key 18 to 49 demo from .4 to .5. Plus, Stephen King tweeted that he is a fan so hopefully that spreads the word. I love this show so much now. I want a confirmed second season.

That is good news. I wouldn't have imagined in 1000 years that Stephen aaKing would watch this show. Goes to show, we don't really know celebrities. We only think we do. 

[sugarbaker design]

22 hours ago, topanga said:

I wouldn't have imagined in 1000 years that Stephen aaKing would watch this show.

No surprise here, he likes good writing, this is a well-written show.

[rozen]

On 7/3/2017 at 9:57 AM, Lizzing said:

I really wish they'd drop the Roller character altogether.  He's more interesting dead and off screen where I could suspend disbelief and think he and Desna had some kind of connection beyond sex and money, but the more he talks, even in her dreams/daydreams, the more it doesn't wash that she'd give that fool a second look.

I couldn't figure why Gina Torres' character showed up to that salon for her mani when she seemed to deem it so downmarket to start with.  It's not like she knew "Heather" was going to be there.

As I haven't had a manicure since one gave me a nasty nail infection over 20 years ago, can someone tell me why it looked like Polly was putting clear coat on the woman's skin (on the top of the fingers, between the first knuckle and cuticle line)?  I can't figure if that is a legit thing to do to for some reason I don't know, or if we're to take Polly isn't all that good at her job.

I do love the craziness of this show; that water dance was something completely unexpected yet somehow oddly beautiful.

 

I figure the uber rich bachelorette party they entertained a while back have been raving about the 'service' ever since. Of course, I expect not many in that economic circle would be brave enough to wander down to Palmetto, so Gina Torres' character may be the first of many upscale clientele to show up randomly. 

I have no qualms about the girls hustling a hustler. Gina's character was also super disdainful of having to actually take care of her husband, and talked him down every chance she got. Polly never said any such thing about her mark. I don't dislike Polly because I feel like if she made good and became a trophy wife she would give it 110%. Her old husband with dementia would have had the cleanest butt known to man so no one could impugn the quality of her work. 

Somehow, I feel like Uncle Daddy knows precisely what happened and doesn't care. I feel like his woe-by-baby-boy is dead act is bs. I wouldn't be surprised if Roller got cheated out of his inheritance of the Dixie Mafia by Uncle-Daddy killing his brother and taking the son under his wing. And made sure to keep him too high and stupid to think of moving too far up. I think Russian mafia lady knows it too. I bet Desna is going to end up getting flipped by the Russian mafia head just to get protection for her and Dean from Uncle Daddy.

I fully expect it will be eventually revealed Roller did indeed have a plan to take care of Desna, just to add the crushing thrust to Desna's psyche. He said he would do right by her, and he understands cash, so I don't believe he'd leave his old lady in such dire straits. If he really considered her his woman, which he apparently told everyone she was, I wouldn't be shocked if he had some custom nail salon being built out on the beach or some dumb shit, and expected her to just sit pretty until he was ready for the surprise.

Edited July 8, 2017 by rozen

[Ohwell]

I don't care if Gina Torres' character is a hustler, the point is that she's not hustling those bitches.   Now that they've shown up in her house, I hope she does hustle them.  

If Polly were married to an old geezer he'd be dead.  Not too soon though, say about six months, just to make it look like natural causes.