S29.E04: Another One Bites the Dust / S29.E05: Have Faith In Me, Broski

[Vanderboom]

2 hours ago, watch2much said:

I think Scott displays a lot of restraint in being able to limit his speech to the occasional sarcastic comment.  I would have turned on her and unloaded by now.  The constant complaining.....he was carrying her pack up the stairs and she was complaining.....yes the ladle thing appeared to be difficult, but she had most of the circle cut out before Becca finished it, so she was able to do it.  She's princess that apparently can't even endure a modicum of discomfort.   

I hear you. I'm not that athletic, but damn, Brooke. Try. EVERYTHING can't be The Most Impossible Thing Ever. If you're that delicate, stay home and watch like the rest of us. Scott sometimes acts like a (Harvard-educated) tool but I admire his patience with Brooke.

I was another one who was momentarily faked out by Redmond's sympathy act. Then he had to ruin the  poking the crazy that is Brooke. Jerk.

As of now, I'm rooting for Team Fun and Team Lolo, as they are the least painful to watch, with Tara & Joey as an acceptable alternative.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Vanderboom

[dgpolo]

2 hours ago, watch2much said:

yes the ladle thing appeared to be difficult, but she had most of the circle cut out before Becca finished it, so she was able to do it.  She's princess that apparently can't even endure a modicum of discomfort.   

Did you note that while Becca had on full gloves, Brooke only had on fingerless gloves, I doubt she was able to grasp and cut as tightly as Becca (at least without cutting herself and she'd be sure not to do that), I think that was a part of her problem.

5 hours ago, Vyk said:

About the only good things Brooke did here were discovering the secret compartments at the Lock Detour and giving her and Scott's extra key to Becca & Floyd.  Might seem like a bad thing, but given what happened at the Roadblock, it really helped her. 

Brooke DID NOT give the key away, Scott did, and Brooke was PISSED. So she really lucked out.

[Spaceman Spiff]

38 minutes ago, Hera said:

Under the circumstances, I thought it was smart play for Becca to help Brooke, but funnily enough, not for the reasons I just outlined. I.

However, giving Becca and Floyd the key in the first place was probably not a great move by Scott and I kind of understand why Brooke was annoyed about it, even though it ended up working in her favor later on. If Becca and Floyd never figured out the secret drawers, or decided to switch detours, they may have also missed the ferry, which would have left them battling against Shamir and Sara not to be eliminated, and would have left the surviving team really far behind going into the next day. Yeah, they probably would had caught up thanks to flights, but you never know.

I agree. I didn't mind Becca helping Brooke after they got the key from Scott. Tit for tat. I was thinking more of when they had to look for the clue in the paper where to go and 1 group finds it and points it out to all the others standing around. Those are the times I sit there and think "really?" I mean you found the clue why give the other teams that advantage as well, like with the lure, "Oh there is another one over there..."

[mojoween]

I find it so interesting how people act knowing that other people are going to see.

We have come to know that disgusting, uncalled-for behavior can get you fired in real life (see: Survivor) and while Ashton is not going to get fired, I find her behavior much worse than, say, Brooke.

Brooke, while annoying and not someone I'll ever invite over to help me build something, is really only a harm to herself.  She's snippy with Scott, but it's not anything anyone else in the history of time has not done to their partner.

But Ashton has shown that if she doesn't get what she wants, she is going to be both passive-aggressive and downright rude.  I would think twice about working with someone like that.

Vanck is annoying too, I agree, but I just cannot get over her saying she's stuck with him when he's standing right there.

[Rinaldo]

8 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Teams banding together has been done early and often in various forms in past seasons but sooner or later there is an ugly breakup with one team deciding the weaker team is too much of a liability and literally leaves them on the side of the road.

Or to see it in a less harsh light, as the final legs approach, one team comes to a realization that if they are to win, that means all the other teams (including the one they like and have been loosely working with) must lose. We saw it back in TAR 1 when Kevin & Drew frequently helped out Emily & her mother (and Emily in her turn had pointed out the landmark they needed to spot to Lenny, back in Leg 3), but as they found a clue near the Taj Mahal, moved on without telling them, realizing that it was time to stop working together.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Rinaldo

[amazingracefan]

I think reality tv can be different to real life, there are different pressures and challenges.  There are plenty of horrible people in real life who will never get called out on anything, but who will at the same time be very moralistic about people on their tv.  I'm not really for bland vanilla reality tv, rather have the full reality than airbrushing things.   People do like having villains too though they often won't say that.

I'll never be with team fun, she is just too annoying.  That mouth agape look and the whole fun meter stuff.  It's so obvious I'm supposed to like them according to the edit, but I don't always follow clues like that.

[illdoc]

About the keys....If you had a key which did not open the lock, wouldn't you try a different lock (like the first team did) rather than try to find more keys, in hopes that it would fit your lock? If Scott & Brooke had done that, they wouldn't have had an extra key to begin with!

[J-Man]

22 hours ago, greyhorse said:

Team Fun should have used the Express Pass on the Fast Forward and then maybe they would have finished first.

I'm pretty sure you can't use an Express Pass on a Fast Forward.

Several people have referred to the Norway leg as an NEL; it was in reality a TBC. There was no prize awarded for first place, meaning Becca and Floyd didn't miss out on much by not coming in first.

I checked the stats for Roadblocks; Joey and Tara have the biggest disparity of the remaining teams (Joey 3; Tara 1) so she's going to have to start doing some more of them.

Does anyone want to speculate what would've happened if Scott and Brooke had arrived at the Fast Forward task before Becca and Floyd? Would one or both of them have had a meltdown at finding out about the skydiving?

Edited April 22, 2017 by J-Man

[Jobiska]

To avoid interference with the detour in a way that would hinder other teams (like the stuntmen? intentionally did when they moved? or hid? parts of a task, and thereby got a penalty), I presume Scott and Brooke would either have had to put the key back in the drawer they found it in, *possibly* leave it lying in the open, or do what they did and hand it off (since helping other teams has never been forbidden, or if it has, it was explicit in the clue).  

As to why they had a second key, I think while Scott was working with the first one and/or looking for a second lock, Brooke, to have something to do, was still looking for another key.  She couldn't really help him try to open the lock.  Maybe it would have been the one thing she was good at.

Did Vanck ever explicitly say he picked Ashton because she was blonde and pretty, either as his sole reason or part of his reason, or is this just an assumption people are making because they can't see why else he did?  Maybe he noticed she was a fast runner in the suitcase challenge.  (I was not one of the people who thought his 135 degree angle was horrible and annoying--he should have been quicker to realize she didn't think that way, but I don't think it was terrible).  

Did Joey and Tara get a prize for the second episode, which was really the end of the first half of an uber-leg?  I didn't think they did.  That being the case, I am not too upset with the structure of the fast forward.  I think the race planners expected the experience to be the prize, with the assumption that it would not be so slow as to guarantee they were in last.  

Imagine if Scott and Brooke had gotten to it first.  He might have used it as a further experience to conquer his fear of heights, but I suspect she would have freaked.  Maybe done it, but freaked really annoyingly.  

Scott continues to grow on me, and I have to admit that his deadpan, tongue in cheek claim that he had the express pass was something that my son would have done, including his sly proud sneaky look to the camera.  When my son tries to "trick" me like that (he's 22, by the way, so I've had a lot of it) it's annoying, but i didn't mind it in Scott.  I guess he has to amuse himself as best he can when saddled with Flooke.  (Can't call her Bro, after all, since then people would think I meant Redmond or Matt).  

I enjoyed Michael's professional-butcher assessment of the fish, but it was all downhill after that (well, uphill for him).  Yes, I think if Liz had kept the word "north" out of her explanation of reading the map, it would have all gone well--she did seem to be trying to explain that she could see one landmark, and then figure the rest out in relation to that.  But he fixated on her claim of "north" and totally misunderstood and stopped listening.

I wish I could remember whether the "this season on" spat between Tara and Joey was the slight argument in the knocking-on-doors task; I hope so, and that they don't bicker further.  I also don't remember whether the previewed arguing from Michael has been shown.  I don't want to see more, but I'm afraid I will.

Edited to add:  thanks for confirming my suspicion that J and T did not get a prize, J-Man; and I see you have the same speculation about Scott and Brooke's reaction to the Fast Forward!

Edited April 22, 2017 by Jobiska

[AZChristian]

6 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Yes, I think if Liz had kept the word "north" out of her explanation of reading the map, it would have all gone well--she did seem to be trying to explain that she could see one landmark, and then figure the rest out in relation to that.  But he fixated on her claim of "north" and totally misunderstood and stopped listening.

Hubby and I had this discussion after seeing the show.  The default way most GPS units are set, you're always going "up" . . . so it might look like you're heading north.  So "north" doesn't always mean "north" in that context.  Whatever is straight in front of you might erroneously be described as "north," and I suspect that's what Liz meant.  

We have (over 52+ years of marriage) had many "discussions" about directions.  After one memorable "discussion," I finally said to him (there were guests in the car), "Sweetie, I know you feel that you're following the directions we were given, but no matter how many times you go back to the main road and do the same thing, this is still not where we're supposed to be.  Can we please just pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  The directions said "Go to the intersection where there's a pancake house on the left and a gas station on the right.  Turn left."  After we pulled over and he started to listen to me, we went back to the main road and continued on it for a couple of miles.  Sure enough . . . about 2 miles down the road, there was ANOTHER pancake house and another gas station.  Bingo!

So now our "go-to" phrase when we're having a "discussion" is:  "Can we please pull over to the side of the road and talk about this?"  It means, "We are NOT listening to each other.  Let's focus on that."

[Spaceman Spiff]

40 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

Did Vanck ever explicitly say he picked Ashton because she was blonde and pretty, either as his sole reason or part of his reason, or is this just an assumption people are making because they can't see why else he did?  Maybe he noticed she was a fast runner in the suitcase challenge.  (I was not one of the people who thought his 135 degree angle was horrible and annoying--he should have been quicker to realize she didn't think that way, but I don't think it was terrible).  

I believe he did, which is why I posted that he did. I would have to watch the first episode again to verify. And I did think he was horrible and annoying with the 135 degree turn. When he said that, Ashton replied with "I don't know what that means." with a frustrated tone, that anyone given that type of direction, would reply with. His response was, "90 degrees is a right turn, so it's more than 90." (something to that effect). Which doesn't help IMHO. If she is frustrated with 135, she isn't going to get greater than 90...a simple turn here would have sufficed I think. He was the same when he was adamant that his shooting a bow in 8th grade once meant he should shoot the bow in that one challenge and he could barely pull the bow string back.

EDIT: Watched the beginning of E1 again.

Vanck: Ideal partner. A pretty girl. Never hurts in term of sales on the race because some people look at me like I have 2 heads or something sometimes. ( Uh yea, with the whole 135/90 degrees directions). When he picked the other females available were the swole sisters Jessie and Francesca, London, Tara, Liz and Jenn.

Ashton: Someone taller and stronger than me for the more physical challenges. (Not to find a hunka hunka lova boy).

So Vanck wanted someone pretty to handle sales, but then took the market challenge....

Edited April 22, 2017 by Spaceman Spiff

[Jobiska]

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

And I did think he was horrible and annoying with the 135 degree turn. When he said that, Ashton replied with "I don't know what that means." with a frustrated tone, that anyone given that type of direction, would reply with. His response was, "90 degrees is a right turn, so it's more than 90." (something to that effect). Which doesn't help IMHO. If she is frustrated with 135, she isn't going to get greater than 90

I'll definitely concede quite annoying!  But to me his failure to quickly come up with map-reading language that worked for Ashton (on the first leg no less) was no different than Liz's failure to come up with map-reading language that worked for Michael in this last leg, and I don't think failure to be able to quickly adapt to a stranger's vastly different style is "horrible."  But mileage varies!  

[seacliffsal]

I loved how the editors showed Brooke complaining about how she's not elderly and unable to run, etc.  And then, of course, her whining that she can't run and keep up at the end of the episode.  She complains about how hard everything is and has break-downs while doing every task and then resents it when Scott confirms with her that she wants to do something.

[Miles]

I'm so done with Ashton! Until this week you could say "Well they are so different and it's hard for both of them." but that's well and truly over now. If you can't spare 30 seconds to google something, which could save you from hours of blindly stumbling around, just because you have some kind of weird compulsion to be constantly running somewhere, you shouldn't be on the amazing race, you should be in a loony bin.

Poor Vanck.

On 21.4.2017 at 5:01 AM, InDueTime said:

Becca and Floyd get the Fast Forward, and the luxury of driving to the Pit Stop, but only managed 3rd?  What the hell happened?

I think the two teams at the fishing detour were way luckier than the amazing leg planners expected.

That probably should have taken about the same time as the fireworks rockets, but in reality took nowhere near as long.

On 21.4.2017 at 7:34 AM, pivot said:

The teams are morons for helping out the all-guy team. The fast forward was setup horribly if two teams could finish ahead of time but Team Fun is stupid for not using the express pass.

They didn't have any opportunity to use it, as they skipped all the tasks with the fast foreward. Who could have known that the leg was designed so badly that the FF wouldn't put you at number 1?

On 21.4.2017 at 6:55 PM, backformore said:

Michael has that irritating sarcasm that men who think they're superior to women indulge in.  "Yes, you're right, you're always right,"  with an eyeroll and a sarcastic tone.  He thinks he is intellectually superior to her, and is doing her a big favor by pretending to listen to her.

I don't think ou need to gender that. The men and women (although I have to agree, it's mostly men, women are passive agressive in other ways) who engage in that behaviour usually do it to men and women alike.

21 hours ago, lianau said:

http://www.zanzibarquest.com/ferries-flights/ferry-dar-es-salaam-zanzibar.html

Interesting. From the time they got to the pitstop I would guess that most teams got on the 12:30 ferry. That means Shamir and Sara where three hours and thrity minutes behind when they got to the main land. Good thing that it wasn't a non-elim. That time difference would have made the next leg boring.

11 hours ago, Vyk said:

Liz & Michael: Their winning streak ended, but they still ran a strong, solid leg.  Michael helped them not take so long with the Lock Detour by figuring out the secret compartments being an element of the task, and he killed the Roadblock with his physical skills.  If they'd figured out the Lock Detour a bit faster, they might've been the only team on their ferry and had a comfortable lead in going to the Roadblock and won their third leg because of it.  But third place isn't bad.

They started at 8:17am and the ferry before the one everybody took was at 9:30. So that seems impossible, considering travel time, task completion time, time it takes to buy a ticket, etc.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Miles

[humbleopinion]

Brooke is so insufferable that she is cosmically guaranteed to be in the final group...villains are good for ratings.

We love to HATE....

[Haleth]

What was it the legendary Miss Alli used to say about cooperation between teams?  It should be temporary and mutually beneficial?  Something like that?

[Rinaldo]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

...the 135 degree turn. When he said that, Ashton replied with "I don't know what that means." with a frustrated tone, that anyone given that type of direction, would reply with.

Not "anyone." It was already established, back in that episode's topic, that for some of us, that would have been the ideal way to convey that information. And for some others, not; and a different way would then be needed to describe it. And even if "135 degrees" didn't work, Vance wasn't "horrible and annoying" to think that even to someone who doesn't understand 135 degrees, a 90-degree angle might be a familiar concept. As it turns out, that was no good for Ashton either, and he needed to find a different way. But the problem arose because different people have different ways of understanding and describing directions, not because she's right and he's horrible.

15 minutes ago, Haleth said:

What was it the legendary Miss Alli used to say about cooperation between teams?  It should be temporary and mutually beneficial?  Something like that?

I saved the quote from a TAR 2 recap: "All alliances are transitory and mutually opportunistic, and it will never be any other way."

[Jobiska]

Forgot to add:  Non-clue anglers seemed pretty mellow that people were randomly kayaking up to them, pulling up their lures, and in one case stealing one!  I assume that they were either plants to make it harder, were warned by race planners, or were among what I suspect is a large proportion of anglers, who probably do it more to have an excuse to sit by the water doing nothing than in any hope of catching something!  

Reminds me of the "measuring benches with newspapers" task within the past few seasons, and how there were some people who I think were hired to sit there, and some people who dared to wish to sit on a bench that day!

[fishcakes]

I can't decide if Michael's a good guy or not. He started the episode praising Liz and saying he'd choose her all over again. Then he got nasty with the "so you think your map is a magic map?" Immediately apologized when it turned out she was right. And ended by blaming her for parking on the lot after he told her to do it. I did love the faces of the greeters though while Michael and Liz fought on the mat. They looked like they were watching a pair of zoo animals engaging in a ritual they couldn't quite identify.

And Scott's facial expressions make up for Brooke's whining, at least in terms of entertaining me. She's so annoying, but it almost seems like a parody, especially when she whimpered about the size of her fish when it was just three little pieces. I can't help but think of Charla, who probably weighed less than 100 pounds, eating two pounds of cavier in one sitting. Did anyone catch what kind of fish they were eating? It was orange so I assumed salmon, but the guy said it was cured, so was it was something like lutefisk but not using whitefish?

I get Team Fun's reasoning about not wanting the others to know they had the Express Pass, but unless they explicitly lied and told other teams they didn't have it, I don't get why it's a big deal. If I were in their position, I would have wanted to use the Express Pass now so I could save the possibility of going for the Fast Forward later. There's no guarantee they'd be in position to go for it later, but now they've burned the opportunity entirely.

Best moment: Vanck loading the giant firework into the back of the car, as we hear Ashton from inside the car: "OW!"

[JaimeRoberto]

Wouldn't the adjustment for magnetic north vs true north be dramatically different way up north in Norway compared to what we are used to in the US? It's quite possible that Mike's compass was leading him astray.

[etagloh]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

From the time they got to the pitstop I would guess that most teams got on the 12:30 ferry. That means Shamir and Sara were three hours and thirty minutes behind when they got to the main land.

Sending Phil out to do the S&S elimination was presumably driven by production schedules and not the venue, given the long flight north. Had two teams missed the first ferry and been left to fight for survival over the Road Block, that could have caused a big logistical problem. That in turn suggests everyone was expected to be bunched on that one ferry, negating any advantage gained by the Detour. Messy planning for an elimination leg.

[Miles]

5 minutes ago, etagloh said:

Sending Phil out to do the S&S elimination was presumably driven by production schedules and not the venue, given the long flight north.

That Phil went out there isn't really indication of anything. Phil always went out there when a team was hopelessly behind and it got dark. In recent seasons it even got earlier and earlier.

Three and a half hours behind more than qualifies, even if the next leg had also been in Dar Es Salaam.

[Netfoot]

9 minutes ago, Miles said:

Phil always went out there when a team was hopelessly behind and it got dark. In recent seasons it even got earlier and earlier.

I think the Minor Guido is only to be expected when all other teams are checked in/safe and the last remaining team is still hours out.  

[shortsummers]

I have the following comments on Becca and Floyd using the Fast Forward instead of the Express Pass.

The FF does not allow you to skip all tasks as someone suggested.  It just means you're doing one task instead of two.  Pretty much the same advantage the EP gives you.

The EP is always an advantage, the FF is not always an advantage.  The super strong Green Team of TAR 27 almost got eliminated on the first leg because they went for a FF that couldn't be run.

Using the FF instead of EP did not make for a less stressful and physically easier leg than the EP would have, as some have suggested.  Becca would have run right up the tower and loved it and then they would have pretty much gone straight to the pit stop.  How is that more stressful than what they did?

Becca saying that by not using the EP the other teams would not know they were deceitful because they hadn't told them that they had the EP made no sense to me.  If someone had a secret EP and told everyone about it, I would think that they were an idiot because it would made them an immediate target at the U Turn.

Had they used the EP, they would have aced the Roadblock and skipped the detour and finished well ahead of the other teams, won $5000 and gotten a head start on the next leg.  Though I realize that this is hindsight.

Most importantly, The EP was gone after this leg whether they used it or not.  But because they did use the FF, that too is gone for them in all future legs.  Granted, them getting a FF in future legs might only be 20-25%, it's still better than the 0% they have now.

Having written all this, I also realize that using the FF may give them an unintended advantage later in the race.  I just got through watching TARS18 and 20 on DVD.  In both races the teams that were eliminated in the penultimate leg probably would have been spared had they been able to pick the person doing the Roadblock instead of having it dictated by the number of Roadblocks they had previously performed.  By not doing the Roadblock on the FF, which they almost certainly would have done if they had used the EP, Becca and Floyd  probably will have a choice as to which one of them will do the final Roadblock.  This can be a big advantage since they have different abilities.  But they have to make it to the final four first.

[JaimeRoberto]

53 minutes ago, JaimeRoberto said:

Wouldn't the adjustment for magnetic north vs true north be dramatically different way up north in Norway compared to what we are used to in the US? It's quite possible that Mike's compass was leading him astray.

OK, I looked it up.  There's hardly any difference between magnetic north and true north in that part of Norway.  I guess Mike was just being a bozo.

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

I saved the quote from a TAR 2 recap: "All alliances are transitory and mutually opportunistic, and it will never be any other way."

Thanks, Rinaldo.  I knew one of our Super Twopers would remember. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Haleth

[waving feather]

I get Ashton and Vanck are totally different in personalities and he can be annoying but it's uncalled for how rude she was to him during that interview. "I'm stuck with him" Lady, he's stuck with you too and you don't need to be so rude to him in his face. He's not the worst partner she could have had IMO. Would she rather have Michael who was pissed that he had to run up stairs and made a lot of snide comments to his partner? Or Brooke? Or Shamir? At least Vanck is not verbally abusive. Vanck has shown he's competent in roadblocks. Not the fastest but he has not let the team down.

Did anyone else see the aborted hug by London? When they were on the ferry and realised one team didn't make it on and they did, she raised her arm and leaned in a bit to Logan but he was oblivious or not into it. Lol.

[waving feather]

Joey and Tara bicker like an old married couple. I'm amused because they both can dish it out and take it. They seem like one of the few couples who may stay friends after the show. Joey is actually very patient with Tara.

Brooke and Scott bicker like siblings. They poke fun at each other but it's not in a nasty way, so it's fine with me.

I didn't realise what a drama queen Michael is. He couldn't let go of it even on the mat.

[Rachel RSL]

2 hours ago, shortsummers said:

The FF does not allow you to skip all tasks as someone suggested.  It just means you're doing one task instead of two.  Pretty much the same advantage the EP gives you.

Yes but that one task isn't usually something that takes longer than the entire leg. Remember the infamous "Eat a meat pie"?

[greyhorse]

On 4/21/2017 at 3:10 PM, greyhorse said:

Seems like in this case, (and I don't think it's allowed), Team Fun should have used the Express Pass on the Fast Forward and then maybe they would have finished first.  Certainly not as fun as jumping out of a helicopter, and not as memorable, but it would have helped to secure the win.

 

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

I'm pretty sure you can't use an Express Pass on a Fast Forward.

You truncated my entire quote.  So yes, I agree, which is why I said I don't think it is allowed.  But wouldn't It have been great if it was?  That's essentially like a super express pass and you get to skip two challenges and the actual fast forward.  Obviously not allowed, although I wonder if Team Fun asked about it.

Did the fishermen with clues on their lures have a TAR red and yellow pin on their jacket?  Could have sworn that one of the guys who had one of the clues did.  I didn't quite understand why it was so hard for Team Mom to figure out that Team Dad (still don't know names yet) was right about the clue.  Hasn't she ever watched TAR?  There is a name written on the back of the lure.  Don't you think that would be important and is a clue?  I was a bit confused too because Team Dad seemed to imply at one point that the other lure said something completely different, which wouldn't make sense.  Obviously both lures had the same clue on them.

Edited April 23, 2017 by greyhorse

[sinycalone]

There can be features of the fast forward that are beyond production's control:  wind, rain, etc.  There was a fast forward that included bungeeing or something similar from a skyscraper...but the wind kicked up and just would not die down.  The team decided that they would lose too much time trying to wait it out.  We don't want FFs that are ridiculously simple...which oftens means challenges that are time-consuming.

[etagloh]

34 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

We don't want FFs that are ridiculously simple...which oftens means challenges that are time-consuming.

Agreed, but if there's a chance of "circumstances beyond our control" then a FF task should really be set up to allow more than one team to go for it. This was a FF designed primarily for the visuals (and succeeded in that respect) not as a calculated risk within the context of the leg or as a reward for a team that self-navigated best to the first clue.

[sinycalone]

The leg had no prize for coming in first....so the team that took the FF was not risking the loss of any reward for winning the leg.  I'd say the reward was the helicopter/skydiving adventure.  Of course, none of the teams knew it would KoR....but that's all part of the Race.

[holly4755]

I think the first  fast forwards use to be do a task and then you get the pass, In this case I think the task was time consuming and multiples could not compete. 

[Dobian]

On 4/21/2017 at 6:34 PM, Netfoot said:

I don't see the FF as a guarantee of non-elimination, and certainly not an automatic leg-win/leg-prize.  Nor should it be.  It's an opportunity.  One which you might exploit to your advantage.  But there have been several instances in the past where the FF didn't result in an early placement in the leg, and at least one where the FF team were eliminated.  What I don't like about the latter-day FF is that once someone takes it, there is no chance for another team to compete against them.  Used to be that several teams would go for the FF, and the first to complete it would depart for the pitstop, while the others had to scurry back to the race.  

I'm okay with the FF not being a guarantee, if a team does a poor job with the FF.  The problem with this FF was they had no control over the task, how fast they finished depended on how fast the helicopter took them up and let them jump.  And of course before they got to go up and skydive they were taken on a grand sightseeing tour while the other teams were hurrying to their detours.  They were at the mercy of the logistics of the whole thing.

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Not "anyone." It was already established, back in that episode's topic, that for some of us, that would have been the ideal way to convey that information. And for some others, not; and a different way would then be needed to describe it. And even if "135 degrees" didn't work, Vance wasn't "horrible and annoying" to think that even to someone who doesn't understand 135 degrees, a 90-degree angle might be a familiar concept. As it turns out, that was no good for Ashton either, and he needed to find a different way. But the problem arose because different people have different ways of understanding and describing directions, not because she's right and he's horrible.

I saved the quote from a TAR 2 recap: "All alliances are transitory and mutually opportunistic, and it will never be any other way."

You are correct, he isn't horrible. I was responding to someone who used the terms "horrible and annoying" so my response contained those words. But I also don't find Ashton horrible or a nasty bitch as some have called her for answering the same question posed to her by Phil/cameramen/production  over and over about how her and Vanck are getting along. "I'm stuck with him." is not rude at all. It is stating the obvious, and may have been her frustrated answer because they keep asking her the same question. Like I am stuck with him, why do you keep bringing this up....   Plus they only seem to ask her, not Vanck, or they don't show his response. Probably because he was the picker not the pickee. Who knows.

Instead of playground style team picking perhaps they should have had a number/color card in the bags they picked up and brought back to Phil. The two people with the 1 or red card are a team, the two with the 2 or blue card are a team etc etc. Sort of like Top Chefs picking knives.

I really don't know why I am defending her so much, but I come here to read the boards and see all those bitch comments and think, did I watch the same episode because I didn't see that. Their dysfunction is not as bad as some teams.

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

They were at the mercy of the logistics of the whole thing.

That's all true, and I can see your point.  But aren't they in a position to figure all that out before they decide to take the FF?  Perhaps wisely deciding whether or not to take it, is a race-skill.  

[chaifan]

10 hours ago, waving feather said:

Joey and Tara bicker like an old married couple. I'm amused because they both can dish it out and take it. They seem like one of the few couples who may stay friends after the show. Joey is actually very patient with Tara.

 

I noticed this past episode Joey called Tara "honey" a few times.  It was very cute (done in an endearing way, not patronizing in any way).  I like their dynamic as a couple - they're not perfect, but no one is.  Tara picked him because he was the other "older" person, and I think she chose well. 

Spaceman Spiff - watch a few of the bonus clips on the Amazing Race youtube channel featuring Ashton, and you may see where some other people are coming from on Ashton.  Yes, she's responding to questions, but she makes no attempt to hide her disdain in being paired with Vanck.  There's one clip where the camera is capturing a conversation with her an Vanck (looks to be in the ferry terminal lobby) and she just doesn't stop.  In that one Vanck had a little more backbone in responding to her/defending himself, and I wish we'd see a little more of that in regular episodes. 

1 minute ago, Netfoot said:

That's all true, and I can see your point.  But aren't they in a position to figure all that out before they decide to take the FF?  Perhaps wisely deciding whether or not to take it, is a race-skill.  

Well, they call it a "fast" forward for a reason.  Historically (and both Becca and Floyd are devoted TAR fans) it truly has been the fastest way to the pitstop (racer bungling not withstanding).  And, you know almost nothing about it when you take it, so there's not much to analyze.  Becca & Floyd have been doing some pretty detailed recap videos on youtube, so I'm sure they'll post something about how they managed to end up 3rd with the FF.

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

But I also don't find Ashton horrible or a nasty bitch as some have called her for answering the same question posed to her by Phil/cameramen/production  over and over about how her and Vanck are getting along. "I'm stuck with him." is not rude at all. It is stating the obvious, and may have been her frustrated answer because they keep asking her the same question.

Not to speak for anyone else but my issue with Ashton has nothing to do with how she replies to Phil's question about how they are getting along. Frankly I barely pay attention to those mat chats, well except for when they go on as long as Michael and Liz' petty bickering did. So the issue I have with Ashton regarding Vanck has nothing to do with her saying she's "stuck with him".

It has to do with her constant snark, rudeness and seeming irritation with him, sometimes seemingly for merely breathing. An example was their conversation at the start of the next leg. They acknowledged their issues in the last leg with navigation and were discussing how they would make that day better. Vanck attempts to make a joke and she snottily responds, "well that's common sense and I have common sense", with the sneer planted firmly on her face. And there was this:

Quote

I'm so done with Ashton! Until this week you could say "Well they are so different and it's hard for both of them." but that's well and truly over now. If you can't spare 30 seconds to google something, which could save you from hours of blindly stumbling around, just because you have some kind of weird compulsion to be constantly running somewhere, you shouldn't be on the amazing race, you should be in a loony bin.

I agree with the above. I saw no reason for Ashton's reaction in that moment. Vanck clearly stated that he just wanted to be absolutely sure so they didn't end up running around blindly (which is what happened to Sara and Shamir). The person was simply going to Google the information and confirm to them that it was correct. That was too much of a problem for Ashton. Yes, it's a race but it does a team no good to run off blindly. Yes I know they'd had some information already but he just wanted confirmation that didn't seem like it would take more than a few moments. 

And there was her reaction to her bag as well. It looked like Vacnk offered to carry some of her stuff so she assumed he took everything. However, Ashton could have checked herself and confirm that they had everything before they ran off. The stuff was all laid out at the bottom and it wasn't like the challenge required her to carry anything after she got down from the structure. So she could have reached for her own stuff, as we saw the other teams doing. I understand if he offered to take the stuff and so she assumed he had it but again, her reaction was just over the top in relation to what happened. She just seems generally unpleasant in demeanor regarding him. Her tone, her eyerolls, the sniping, etc. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Miles]

13 hours ago, shortsummers said:

Had they used the EP, they would have aced the Roadblock and skipped the detour and finished well ahead of the other teams, won $5000 and gotten a head start on the next leg.  Though I realize that this is hindsight.

This leg was a TBC and thus didn't have a price. You are thinking off the previous leg.

The only thing they really lost is probably 5-15 minutes for the next leg and you can be sure that there will be a bunch at some point anyway.

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You are correct, he isn't horrible. I was responding to someone who used the terms "horrible and annoying" so my response contained those words. But I also don't find Ashton horrible or a nasty bitch as some have called her for answering the same question posed to her by Phil/cameramen/production  over and over about how her and Vanck are getting along. "I'm stuck with him." is not rude at all. It is stating the obvious, and may have been her frustrated answer because they keep asking her the same question. Like I am stuck with him, why do you keep bringing this up....   Plus they only seem to ask her, not Vanck, or they don't show his response. Probably because he was the picker not the pickee. Who knows.

Like I said before, I lost the last bit of sympathy I had for Ashton when she was berating Vanck for wanting to google the royal doors. I mean come on, googling something takes 30 seconds and could save you hours of blindly wandering around. She should have thanked Vanck for that great idea, but instead she acted like he just killed her puppy, because for some reason she just needed to run off blindly. At that point it was pretty clear that she picks on Vanck not because of anything he does, but because he's not fuckable enough in her eyes.

It has nothing to do with the post-interview, as I don't take those 100% serious, since producers might ask leading questions.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Becca & Floyd have been doing some pretty detailed recap videos on youtube, so I'm sure they'll post something about how they managed to end up 3rd with the FF.

Do you have a link?

Edited April 23, 2017 by Miles

[Miles]

13 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I agree with the above. I saw no reason for Ashton's reaction in that moment. Vanck clearly stated that he just wanted to be absolutely sure so they didn't end up running around blindly (which is what happened to Sara and Shamir). The person was simply going to Google the information and confirm to them that it was correct. That was too much of a problem for Ashton. Yes, it's a race but it does a team no good to run off blindly. Yes I know they'd had some information already but he just wanted confirmation that didn't seem like it would take more than a few moments. 

Plus, from the recap:

Quote

Ashton and Vanck, choosing "Knock," learn that these doors are fairly popular tourist attractions, and a local hotel has the info. Ashton wants to get going; Vanck wants to double-check the directions. Extended bickering occurs, and eventually they depart without checking, which means that, about ten minutes later, they've got to find another local to guide them.

So not googling it and maybe even getting a printout of a map, did cost them time.

[Hera]

In the early seasons, there was a Fast Forward on each leg of the race, but racers could only use it once in the entire game. So there was a lot more strategy that went into using it and generally, it was the team(s) who were in the back (especially ones who finished the last leg some distance behind all the others) who used it. There were no guarantees that came with using it, but it generally did allow the team in the back to leapfrog over one of the teams ahead of them. There definitely wasn't a perception that you were guaranteed to finish the leg in first place or even not to be eliminated. It was a Hail Mary play.

Once they got rid of this, the strategy around a fast forward went away—in recent seasons, if it's there, and no one else has taken it, you use it. It also means that teams who are at the back of the pack never go for it, because they assume one of the teams ahead of them has used it. I assume the rule about "once per season" is still in place, but it's pretty meaningless if the Fast Forward is only an option twice a season.

[ByaNose]

Who is the bigger villain? Shamir or Redmond? Oddly enough, I just thought they were jerks:

 

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/the-amazing-race/whos-the-bigger-villain-on-the-64277.aspx

and, here are Tyler & Brooke in Vegas. A bunch of the cast apparently were there together & having a good time. I didn't see any pictures of Shamir. Shocking!

Edited April 23, 2017 by ByaNose

[chaifan]

Team Fun youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjf7p6ezSt1DzJc6cRx-SkA

Warning:  if you find Team Fun annoying in regular episodes, remove all throwable objects within reach before viewing these.  They are, well let's just say high energy.  I've only watched the episode 3 recap in full, and there is a lot of good background info. 

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, Miles said:

Like I said before, I lost the last bit of sympathy I had for Ashton when she was berating Vanck for wanting to google the royal doors.

Yes, it's the constant berating that puts Ashton on my list. She can't let something go until Vanck completely submits to her. I felt bad for him when she pointed out the hotel where they'd previously gotten directions and he didn't immediately acknowledge that he recognized it. Even after he said he knew they'd been there before she kept trying to get him to admit that he didn't realize that the instant she pointed it out. As they were running down the street after leaving it, she started in again with the "seriously, did you not know we were there before?" There was no point to that except to make him feel small.

[sinycalone]

The photo above captioned Brooke and Tyler...who is Tyler?

[holly4755]

I was googling last night, and I don't have the link but I saw a small recap by Logan and Sara, they looked quite comfortable with each other, I keep finding different scenes at random. I need to post some more videos  in the media link, but you can catch individual ones about the racers and how they feel about each other there. 

things racers say about each other

Brooke and Redmond do not like Ashton, people have different opinions about Liz and Michael because they see different parts of them. Ashton hates Redmond and is not fond of her partner because he just slows her down. Vanck does not talk much in videos. Scott does not criticize his partner on the mat and she does not criticize him there,.  Brooke thinks Redmond likes her, Matt does not talk much on the mat.  Redmond says he is playing a head game. Scott says he is playing a make everyone think they are your friend game. Team fun was over their passport issue minutes later while still on the mat beat boxing with Phil. So far I don't recall hearing anything negative from the racers about Team lolo, team fun,  Scott, Sara, team mom and dad. 

[etagloh]

6 hours ago, Netfoot said:

aren't they in a position to figure all that out before they decide to take the FF?

Not necessarily, given that the FF clue was deliberately light on detail, as many of them are: "Take a helicopter ride into the great unknown."

I'm fine with a modern-era FF (i.e. not one every leg) that takes longer than a standard task, offers more of a challenge, and perhaps requires things that team members are not willing to do: the head-shaving FFs are the best example, and TARCan also had a clever one that I won't spoil. This one apparently only allowed one team into the helicopter, and there was no indication from Becca & Floyd on the drive to the Pit Stop that they encountered any delays. They acted as if everything had gone without a hitch, and assumed they'd get first place. I'm also fine with them not getting first on a TBC leg with no prize, but I wonder if that was expected when the leg was planned out: if bad weather had grounded the helicopter at some point, they'd have been away from their car and a long way from the remaining tasks.

[Dobian]

6 hours ago, Netfoot said:

That's all true, and I can see your point.  But aren't they in a position to figure all that out before they decide to take the FF?  Perhaps wisely deciding whether or not to take it, is a race-skill.  

Well they didn't know what the FF was.when they grabbed the helicopter.  The task could have been anything.

[seacliffsal]

So, this is my thought: as this was a "To Be Continued" leg, and the leg never actually ended, doesn't that mean that Becca and Floyd can still use their Express Pass?  After all, it was good until the end of the fifth leg and this is still the fifth leg.  Therefore, they were able to go on the FF, check in third (they thought they would win first place on this leg, but the leg isn't over which means there hasn't been an official first place or first place prize), and STILL be able to use the EP on the second half of the leg, so they still have an advantage to use this leg.  This could end up being a pretty sweet leg for them.