S09.E06: Sandra

[notyrmomma]

2 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

ETA: Did she really go behind Michael and Eric's backs and attempt some legal shenanigans so she could take back ownership of the house? Did I see and hear that right?

She was still trying to pursue the whole "BOA never had clear title to my house" bit and she said she was going to court "this Wednesday" and "February 27th."  Where I live, there were many foreclosures and many people tried that line of defense (lawyers would advertise that they would try this strategy!), but I don't know of any that succeeded.  I do know of at least one family that got to live in their house about 5 years without paying anything before the cops removed them, just like Sandra.  

[FormerMod-a1]

Matt Paxton is live right now (via FB live) talking about this episode.

[dwarmed]

2 hours ago, Ocean Chick said:

 

I'm truly surprised if this is the first time either Dr. Robin or Matt ran into someone who they Just.  Couldn't.  Help.

 

I feel like they just couldn't help most of them. They pretended some were successes by taking out all the junk at the end (probably stuck it in storage), but most hoarders seemed like they would re-hoard soon. I think that is the fault of the crisis format. A severe mental illness that has developed over many decades can't be addressed in a few stressful days. The hoarders should have months of therapy before even starting a clean-up.

I think they were expecting the process to be different this time because the hoarder had already lost the home and had no where to take anything. I'm sure they had discussed this before and thought the hoarder understood these facts. They seemed blindsided by the massive level of denial on this one.

I just wish Dr. Zaz and Matt would be this upset over the children and animals that are abused by hoarders. This lady didn't deserve their upset.

[gonecrackers]

6 hours ago, Morgalisa said:

I learned a couple of things from this article.  Sandra had already moved/or been evicted from the house for several days before Hoarders came.  She had taken several truck loads of her stuff to God only  know where.  She was invited back after Michael called Hoarders (because the show needs the angle  of the actual hoarder to interact with the therapists and Matt.)  Also, at the end of the show, they said she was living in her GulfStream I believe.  The article said she is living with various friends.  When renovated, the house will be used as a designer showcase (and the boys will donate the money to charity) for a time before the family moves in. I really hope we get to see the pictures after the renovation.

Just finished watching it tonight. This info kind of upsets me, as I don't know if bringing back a so obviously very mentally ill woman into the house to again see her stuff was not more harmful than helpful. She was already gone - with a bunch of stuff - so they could have had the auction folks come in quietly without the show stirring up her pot again, & possibly even giving her deluded mind some false hope.

This may not be a popular opinion, but they got a house cleaned out, which was a ton of help, by exploiting her illness... she also had various people all crowded around her at one point when she was in no condition to handle that, or any of it. Yelling at her was totally unprofessional as she is a very sick woman & it certainly didn't do any good. The doctor seemed to just have more to theatricize with here, & wisely faced away from the camera while tearing up; no close ups there. There's no way they would've been allowed in that tunnel without someone clearing it as reasonably safe prior to their entry.

The only good thing to come out of this was possibly some auction money for her, but again that could've been done without Hoarders involved. I know this is what the show is about, but something about her story, about her clinging so desperately to a life she lost to the point of losing all sense, was so tragic.  She was in no way wanting to feel pain, so this is why she does this & she lashed out because she was pushed beyond what she could handle & allowed to even run other people ragged just to further enable her- which made for great TV.

It all seemed quite cruel to me but what a great way to end the season for them.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, cpcathy said:

Luther's show can be called "Luther Talks Good Sense."

THIS PLEASE!!! Did they ever say who Luther was (other than part of Sandra's "crew?")? Because I LOVED HIM! Also liked the girl with the great hair who looked like a model, the girl in the clown leggings whose shirt kept falling off, the guy with the good sense to peace the fuck out of there, and the poor 90-year old woman who was related to carrying Sandra's 1/4-full Costco-sized tub of pretzels and dressed like she was going on an Arctic expedition. At the end, she apologized to Sandra for "not being able to do more." I was surprised she could do anything! God bless her. 

Michael and Eric are wonderful human beings. In these dark days, they give me some hope for humanity. 

Not that I don't think Dr Tonya Hoarding and Matt aren't on the up and up but I felt their (mostly hers) teary mea culpas were a little forced to make them appear as affected emotionally as Eric and Michael were. 

I'll be crushed if this was the end of Hoarders.  If Matt wants to move on, fine. I'll be perfectly happy with Super Nintendo Chalmers on every episode. 

[Purple]

When she yelled, "Give me the time to do it!" I wanted Matt to scream at her "YOU'VE HAD YEEEEEEARS!" Yeesh! What an episode. I hope and pray I don't go down that road in my old age. Very emotional to watch.  

[Court]

Yes, Sandra has an illness but that illness doesn't excuse all her actions. She was downright mean to everyone, including her crew. It also doesn't mean that people have to accept her treatment of them. She wasn't a victim. 

I don't buy that she was already gone and allowing the couple to live in peace and trash all her brand new stuff! She was obviously still threatening to sue an pursue whatever legal action she thought up.

I believe she agreed to stop the legal action if they allowed her to clean up. They agreed and she told everyone else but them about her plans until they confronted her. She was manipulating everyone and knew it.  I'd love to see the footage of her talking to the producers and trying to pit them against each other.

[fonfereksglen]

1 hour ago, dwarmed said:

I feel like they just couldn't help most of them. They pretended some were successes by taking out all the junk at the end (probably stuck it in storage), but most hoarders seemed like they would re-hoard soon. I think that is the fault of the crisis format. A severe mental illness that has developed over many decades can't be addressed in a few stressful days. The hoarders should have months of therapy before even starting a clean-up.

I think they were expecting the process to be different this time because the hoarder had already lost the home and had no where to take anything. I'm sure they had discussed this before and thought the hoarder understood these facts. They seemed blindsided by the massive level of denial on this one.

I just wish Dr. Zaz and Matt would be this upset over the children and animals that are abused by hoarders. This lady didn't deserve their upset.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  It's the children, from both Horders shows and of course, Intervention, that I often think about.  There seems to be such a lack of outrage about children living in filth or diabetes needles or whatever.  I'm a former teacher which probably explains my feelings a lot.  

[Morgalisa]

The reason most hoarders are old is because hoarding is something that progresses over time. It can take decades to get to the stage where it is unmanageable. I know a couple of young people who already have a good start. Young people generally dont own a home. So the landlord has to go inside for some reason, or neighbors see them bringing in things, the hoard is discovered and they get kicked out of the apartment.  And they start over. I have a friend who has been in the same apartment for over 30 years. When they painted all the units he was finally discovered.

[califred]

The kids bother Matt he's refused to do any Hoards with kids for quite awhile now.

[bethster2000]

2 hours ago, dwarmed said:

I just wish Dr. Zaz and Matt would be this upset over the children and animals that are abused by hoarders. This lady didn't deserve their upset.

Cory Chalmers is.  There was a recent episode where some batshit old bat was hoarding cats, and I thought Cory was going to explode.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Yelling at her was totally unprofessional as she is a very sick woman & it certainly didn't do any good.

Yes and no. The problem of hoarding is that its dysfunctional but not so crazy that we can't just cart these people off to jail. (and seriously, animal hoarders need to have the book thrown at them instead of being hugged and cuddled, and hoarders with children should face more consequences than *nothing*)

Yes, it's mean to yell at the crazy woman who is insisting moldy chairs are still good. But here's the problem. If you hold her hand and pat her back and rationally explain why she can't keep it, she will throw a fit and insist it's still good. And you will spend hours and hours and hours trying to gently convince her she's wrong and she will cry and cry how she's being tortured and she needs more time and then she'll go out and bring more stuff and when you finally get forceful, she'll start screaming bloody murder that you're victimizing her and you're stealing her good stuff or throwing away her good stuff. And nothing gets done and she gets to keep all her stuff until five years later she burns down inside the hoard house, or some nice gay couple finally loses it and calls the sheriff to get her off the property. And then she's the victim.

I mean by rights, Sandra could have been escorted off the property and told she'd be arrested if she stepped foot on the property she had lost. And let's be clear - she burned thru more money than most of us will ever make and yes it's sad she lost her house after fighting over it for years.

My sympathy is for the couple who bought the house and let her stay for what, a year? And who got chewed up and spit out by this bitch because she needed more time.

[gonecrackers]

In no way do I think hoarders should be coddled, but yelling doesn't help anything & isn't motivating either. Even Zasio said they need to remember she's mentally ill & they need to keep it together.

I totally agree on any hoarder with regards to children or animals. I think I only saw one get animal control called by the a doctor after a walk through. Her animals were promptly removed but the hoarder wouldn't let the doctor come back after that. Regardless it was the right thing to do.

I was upset about Sandra's dogs, & have no idea how she can properly care for them; older pets often require a lot.

My feeling on this one was she was just way gone, as in, over that edge. They did say she had left & since the break had been made it should've been left that way. Even if it hadn't been made quite yet what went on was like pulling a band aid off a really hair arm strand by strand. I found it painful to watch for her as she was clearly an emotional & psychological wreck. Not an excuse to scream at people, but that's the situation she was put in & a not so surprising reaction given her mentally ill state of mind - clearly way off & incapable of relating to other people rationally.

It would've been much kinder to have her privately removed & then have the auction people there without her or cameras. Then she would've been out of the equation, & perhaps gotten a bit of money which was a good deed done. Of course then they would've had to clean out the house themselves, but it was legally their stuff at that point anyway.

Edited January 24, 2017 by gonecrackers

[enoughcats]

It's been a gloomy day, perfect for reading a lot of the links posted here. 

Cliff Notes: I now question everything she said.

Timeline: She and her husband bought the house in 1975, presumably from the Church who had received it as a gift for the manse for their preacher.

Fast forward three years and some months:

In November of 1979, both owners applied for status of designation as a historic property.

Now the odd problem.  It was said (see the summary on page 2 here that records what was said on the show) that she divorced her husband in 1975 when he wanted to sell the house.  An alt. version was that she divorced him when he wanted to tear it down.  

Neither of these two reasons for divorce AND the timing of the divorce fit their living together into November of 1975  and going through the legal system to get a divorce in sixty days, much less draw up papers to handle the situation.  

Then allow time for her renting rooms at rates that were atmospheric for the 60s and or 70s for buyers attending the Furniture Marts nearby (that industry was the economic driver for the Triad at that time).  

Then she was burgled and .....

Anyway, her timeline doesn't work real well when I tried to fit things together in her good old days.

For her renting rooms beginning in 1982, after her divorce, see this articles (pages 1  and 2) from 1994, which probably tells us that the hoard didn't exist then.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-01-23/news/9401230385_1_hotel-rooms-international-home-furnishings-market-houses

Edited January 24, 2017 by enoughcats
found another ref to renting rooms, with dates

[rebel2u]

Sandra lost her beautiful Southern home only to have it bought by Yankees.  Insult added to injury.

[pinguina]

Looking at all the stuff in every single room!!! Oh my god!!  I couldn't believe it.  To know that she stayed there for a while.  But to read that she had already taken a lot of stuff and STILL the rooms were packed??  
I don't think I would have been as nice as those two gentlemen were.  And while I understand that it is a mental condition, I didn't not like her at all.  She seemed manipulative and playing as many angles to get out of facing reality.  Plus learning that she had 1.9 million dollars that she apparently blew but on what??  Then not want to pay it back?? The way she treated her "crew" was horrible.  Ordering them around, yelling at them, etc...  :(

[Court]

52 minutes ago, ArmoPrincess said:

What was in the tunnel/basement? Some type of strange mold? I was hoping for a follow-up on the type and disposal process. Anyone know?

My Google degree tells me white slime mold. Hopefully, someone else knows for sure!

[notyrmomma]

9 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Just finished watching it tonight. This info kind of upsets me, as I don't know if bringing back a so obviously very mentally ill woman into the house to again see her stuff was not more harmful than helpful. She was already gone - with a bunch of stuff - so they could have had the auction folks come in quietly without the show stirring up her pot again, & possibly even giving her deluded mind some false hope.

This may not be a popular opinion, but they got a house cleaned out, which was a ton of help, by exploiting her illness... she also had various people all crowded around her at one point when she was in no condition to handle that, or any of it. Yelling at her was totally unprofessional as she is a very sick woman & it certainly didn't do any good. The doctor seemed to just have more to theatricize with here, & wisely faced away from the camera while tearing up; no close ups there. There's no way they would've been allowed in that tunnel without someone clearing it as reasonably safe prior to their entry.

The only good thing to come out of this was possibly some auction money for her, but again that could've been done without Hoarders involved. I know this is what the show is about, but something about her story, about her clinging so desperately to a life she lost to the point of losing all sense, was so tragic.  She was in no way wanting to feel pain, so this is why she does this & she lashed out because she was pushed beyond what she could handle & allowed to even run other people ragged just to further enable her- which made for great TV.

It all seemed quite cruel to me but what a great way to end the season for them.

I have been waiting for this comment.  This was my initial reaction and I was actually mad (and couldn't sleep) and took to posting a comment on Matt's Facebook page.  I basically said that the only reason why they had Sandra there was for drama for the show as the most compassionate thing would be to have her escorted off the property.  He actually replied and said he agreed, but basically they didn't have her escorted off because otherwise she would have been in even more trouble (i.e., arrested/charged with trespassing).  I think it was a terrible way to end the season as they have done so much good for people, just to exploit some woman for our viewing/snarking pleasure.  

6 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I was upset about Sandra's dogs, & have no idea how she can properly care for them; older pets often require a lot.

My feeling on this one was she was just way gone, as in, over that edge. They did say she had left & since the break had been made it should've been left that way. Even if it hadn't been made quite yet what went on was like pulling a band aid off a really hair arm strand by strand. I found it painful to watch for her as she was clearly an emotional & psychological wreck. Not an excuse to scream at people, but that's the situation she was put in & a not so surprising reaction given her mentally ill state of mind - clearly way off & incapable of relating to other people rationally.

It would've been much kinder to have her privately removed & then have the auction people there without her or cameras. Then she would've been out of the equation, & perhaps gotten a bit of money which was a good deed done. Of course then they would've had to clean out the house themselves, but it was legally their stuff at that point anyway.

Matt said on his Facebook live chat last night that there was an animal expert (vet?) on the set that checked over the dogs.  He also said that one of her brothers has the dogs now.  

Gonecrackers - you must have been yelling at the screen as much as I did. LOL  But again, if they didn't put this woman through the ringer, what would we have watched?  

The two men were "nice" because they were giving her all of the money for the stuff, but bottom line, they wanted a free and publicized clean-up, so they put this woman and her friends and family through more distress (which I'm sure they have already had through the years).  I take back my comment that I was shocked that they were business men - it all makes perfect sense now...$14,000 for what could have been a $50,000 cleanup plus millions in free publicity for their new "designer showcase" all while getting the American public to believe that they are the most compassionate beings on earth--PRICELESS!

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, notyrmomma said:

I have been waiting for this comment.  This was my initial reaction and I was actually mad (and couldn't sleep) and took to posting a comment on Matt's Facebook page.  I basically said that the only reason why they had Sandra there was for drama for the show as the most compassionate thing would be to have her escorted off the property.  He actually replied and said he agreed, but basically they didn't have her escorted off because otherwise she would have been in even more trouble (i.e., arrested/charged with trespassing).  I think it was a terrible way to end the season as they have done so much good for people, just to exploit some woman for our viewing/snarking pleasure.  

Matt said on his Facebook live chat last night that there was an animal expert (vet?) on the set that checked over the dogs.  He also said that one of her brothers has the dogs now.  

Gonecrackers - you must have been yelling at the screen as much as I did. LOL  But again, if they didn't put this woman through the ringer, what would we have watched?  

The two men were "nice" because they were giving her all of the money for the stuff, but bottom line, they wanted a free and publicized clean-up, so they put this woman and her friends and family through more distress (which I'm sure they have already had through the years).  I take back my comment that I was shocked that they were business men - it all makes perfect sense now...$14,000 for what could have been a $50,000 cleanup plus millions in free publicity for their new "designer showcase" all while getting the American public to believe that they are the most compassionate beings on earth--PRICELESS!

Bingo. That's how I felt & why I'm so pissed & saddened about this show. It didn't feel like it was about helping anyone; just exploitation of a mentally ill woman for everyone else's personal gain.

Good to hear her dogs are well. I hope she's somewhere safe.

Edited January 24, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Guest]

1 hour ago, notyrmomma said:

The two men were "nice" because they were giving her all of the money for the stuff, but bottom line, they wanted a free and publicized clean-up, so they put this woman and her friends and family through more distress (which I'm sure they have already had through the years).  I take back my comment that I was shocked that they were business men - it all makes perfect sense now...$14,000 for what could have been a $50,000 cleanup plus millions in free publicity for their new "designer showcase" all while getting the American public to believe that they are the most compassionate beings on earth--PRICELESS!

I think that's a terribly cynical way to look at two people's generosity. Clearly they were well enough off to have purchased that property with the expectation of massive renovation bills and clearly they could afford it what was coming their way. To suggest without evidence they did this all to shave a couple dollars off their expenses and as some sort of malevolent PR scheme to enshrine themselves as decent human beings in the public's eye? Wow, just wow.

Sandra, to me, was no different than any other belligerent hoarder featured on this show.  

[gonecrackers]

The hoarders are addicts & no different from any other addict. They lie, manipulate, use & abuse others to get & keep their 'fix'. Sandra was no different. I get that it is difficult to feel sympathy especially when bearing the brunt of their abuse. Even watching it happen to others is difficult, but I can also see the disease coming through. Who acts like that who doesn't have major issues? She was deep into it & didn't want any help, & kept clinging to her past.

She had no legal ground so she wasn't a threat anymore. She could've been taken off the property (& might have already been) without any fanfare for ratings. The worst thing to do with an addict is enable & play along with their nonsense. Allowing her to stay - for whatever reason - strung her along enough to feed her delusions of possibly getting the house back, & there's no doubt they & the show did benefit each in their own ways.

Removal -minus TV - no matter what would have happened, would have been natural consequences of her actions, & addicts do need to feel consequences of their actions, most often through extreme losses of people & things.

It's always sad to watch an addict choose their disease over a life, but they are adults & that is their choice to make. Regardless, hopefully this will jar her into seeing her reality & actually moving onto some kind of healing.

Edited January 24, 2017 by gonecrackers

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

The two men were "nice" because they were giving her all of the money for the stuff, but bottom line, they wanted a free and publicized clean-up, so they put this woman and her friends and family through more distress (which I'm sure they have already had through the years).  I take back my comment that I was shocked that they were business men - it all makes perfect sense now...$14,000 for what could have been a $50,000 cleanup plus millions in free publicity for their new "designer showcase" all while getting the American public to believe that they are the most compassionate beings on earth--PRICELESS!

I actually do see your point but what thing could these two guys have done other than pay off Sandra's mortgage and then gift her with the house that wouldn't paint them as the villains here?

She's mentally ill so she gets to blow thru 1.9 million with no penalty?

Let's be fair - being the two yankee gays who boot the long term resident out and have her arrested for trespassing isn't going to make anyone love them. So they put up with her for a *year* and call in Hoarders and btw Sandra isn't so mentally incompetent that she was on this show without permission or consent.

Do I think being on Hoarders helped these guys? Oh yes. Do I also believe that they bought a house and had a hoarder living in it for a year with no compensation? Yeah. Sandra got 14000 that she wasn't due AT ALL for her appearance on this show. So lets acknowledge that as well - no matter how mentally ill Sandra appears she is legally competent and made the choice to be on the show and was compensated. She could have said no. Is she being exploited? Probably. That's unfortunately how it goes when someone is mentally ill but not mentally incompetent.

At the end of the day, Sandra was *owed* zero and Sandra got 14k on top of the 1.9 million she never repayed.

[gonecrackers]

27 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I actually do see your point but what thing could these two guys have done other than pay off Sandra's mortgage and then gift her with the house that wouldn't paint them as the villains here?

She's mentally ill so she gets to blow thru 1.9 million with no penalty?

Let's be fair - being the two yankee gays who boot the long term resident out and have her arrested for trespassing isn't going to make anyone love them. So they put up with her for a *year* and call in Hoarders and btw Sandra isn't so mentally incompetent that she was on this show without permission or consent.

Do I think being on Hoarders helped these guys? Oh yes. Do I also believe that they bought a house and had a hoarder living in it for a year with no compensation? Yeah. Sandra got 14000 that she wasn't due AT ALL for her appearance on this show. So lets acknowledge that as well - no matter how mentally ill Sandra appears she is legally competent and made the choice to be on the show and was compensated. She could have said no. Is she being exploited? Probably. That's unfortunately how it goes when someone is mentally ill but not mentally incompetent.

At the end of the day, Sandra was *owed* zero and Sandra got 14k on top of the 1.9 million she never repayed.

Sure she agreed but she has no idea how deep in the crazy she is; as an addict she feels justified in her behavior. Everyone else knew differently but put her out there anyway. Maybe she'll get a rude awakening if she sees her behavior, but there's a good chance she will not have any realizations.

The money she owes is going to be her problem, not theirs. The 14k or whatever she got from being on the show was owed her for agreeing to it & appearing; what she does with it is again her choice. Why should everyone else but the hoarder get paid? They wouldn't even be on TV if it weren't for her.

It was their choice to leave her there so I don't feel bad for them. I mentioned above how she's an addict & needs consequences. Instead they enabled - everyone did. It was their property & even their stuff at that point. It was their choice to enable her so they have to own that one.

And why assume these guys would be the bad guys of the neighborhood? Getting a hoarder out of trashing a home like that is doing the neighborhood a favor.

Edited January 24, 2017 by gonecrackers

[ZoloftBlob]

"And why assume these guys would be the bad guys of the neighborhood?" Because they're being treated as the bad guys here? For ennabling her? But if they simply booted her, they would be the two bad guys who kicked a grandmotherly woman out of her home of 30+ years? So they don't and now not only are they derided for ennabling her mental illness they also get to hear how no one gives a shit because *they* made the choice to not boot her and *they* have to live with the consequences. And the point about the 14k is that the 14k didn't actually come from the show - Sandra's compensation from the show is counseling assistance. The 14k came from the sale of items in the house that no longer belonged to her (the two guys who bought the foreclosure owned everything) and essentially gave her the 14k. Whether they were motivated by free clean up (more than likely) or not, Sandra got 14k for the sale of things from the house that she more than technically no longer owned. The show didn't pay her 14k, the sale of possessions from the house did that and that was something that the new homeowners did not have to do at all.

[gonecrackers]

Got it; it was the auction money - I did give them credit for that, however, it could've been done without TV fanfare.

They certainly wouldn't have been kicking an 'elderly grandmotherly woman' out of her home. She was a mentally ill hoarder who trashed a historic home, which I doubt makes the neighbors very happy. There is a context of the situation here that is different from just kicking an innocent person out of their home. They let her stay & that was their choice & yes they all have consequences.

But, they have a home now, she does not, & that is her consequence.

I feel I've been fair on both sides but again, all this is just my opinion.

Edited January 24, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't believe that Sandra's husband left her because he wanted to demolish the mansion, and she wouldn't.  There's probably a lot of denial/delusion in Sandra's account.  I'd sooner believe he left her because her spending was out of control, her business accounting had all the signs of impending bankruptcy (how does that even happen when you are working out of your house and don't need to buy merchandise speculatively?), there were seeds of the future hoard already and Sandra's nasty defensiveness and alt-reality must have already in effect.  She was in her thirties when he left.  Chances are there were plenty of signs of worsening mental troubles.  Maybe he wanted to destroy her nascent hoard, not demolish the house.

Her van was badly hoarded up and filthy, jam-packed in a disorderly manner.  The 20' airstream RV, if it even existed, must have been similarly crammed.  There was really no point inviting her back, one must assumed she took with her the most important stuff already and had run out of space.  Having said that, the possibility that Matt & The Zazz could have made some inroads to shed some layers of disordered thinking did exist.

My favorite bit of manipulation was when Matt asked her brothers to watch her and make sure she didn't drift back to dumpster diving.  Within minutes she had roped them into churning the hoard for her, LOL.  I'm glad they took the dogs.

Overall it was quite illuminating with regards to how a hoarder lacks a mental scale for the value of objects.  A normal person would mentally sort out what need need most for their new life, ask for these furnishings to be retrieved, and be done.  Sandra was prioritizing the garbage.  That's why she was exhausting herself scavenging the dumpsters.  She was hopelessly gripped with the "You can't throw THAT out!" mentality.  The connection to need was non-existent. Spatial considerations never entered the equation... one wonders how she was able to be an interior decorator - her last jobs might have been problematic, and there was some lawsuit from a client right around the time the business went bankrupt.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Toaster Strudel said:

Sandra was prioritizing the garbage.

Yup. I was waiting for her to find a "treasured" Big Gulp cup and put that in her "to go" truck. At one point, when she was just frantically putting literal garbage into boxes, I think she was cosplaying Steve Martin in The Jerk: "All I need is this ashtray...and this paddle game...AND THAT'S ALL I NEED! And this...the remote control..."

[Court]

While we know she has no legal ground, that doesn't prevent her from continuing legal action. She said she was going to continue to sue them unless she could retrieve her stuff. Everyone agreed and surprise, she changed the rules and is still trying to sue them.

I keep coming back to that mental illness doesn't always excuse lousy behavior.

I would like to see details of the lawsuit against her business.

[Wildcat]

I'm normally a lurker not a poster, but this one made me mad enough to come out of hiding.  Once Sandra and her motley crew were dragging stuff out on the street, and once it had been made clear to her a couple of times what was going to happen if stuff wasn't off the street by 5 PM, why didn't they just leave her the hell alone?  Maybe a couple of reminders, but not the incessant refrain of "Where are you taking this stuff?  You know this has to be gone by 5 right?  Don't forget it has to be gone by 5.  Hey did anyone tell you this has to be gone by 5?"  As far as I could tell she was out of Matt's way at that point, she wasn't holding anything up, she seemed to be minding her own business.  Why not just let her play in the garbage by the curb?  On that final day the show just seemed to be poking the crazy lady to make her scream.  I don't necessarily feel sorry for her since the situation was of her own making, and she clearly had a history of being mean and manipulative.  But the show seemed to purposely make the situation far worse so we could be entertained by the drama.

[Toaster Strudel]

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Yup. I was waiting for her to find a "treasured" Big Gulp cup and put that in her "to go" truck. At one point, when she was just frantically putting literal garbage into boxes, I think she was cosplaying Steve Martin in The Jerk: "All I need is this ashtray...and this paddle game...AND THAT'S ALL I NEED! And this...the remote control..."

She did mention a "bag with 22 remote controls" that were probably not matched to any device in her possession...

[Kellyee]

Quote

I feel like they just couldn't help most of them. They pretended some were successes by taking out all the junk at the end (probably stuck it in storage), but most hoarders seemed like they would re-hoard soon. I think that is the fault of the crisis format. A severe mental illness that has developed over many decades can't be addressed in a few stressful days. The hoarders should have months of therapy before even starting a clean-up.

I think there's a huge difference between a Hoarder who realizes they have a problem, and a hoarder who is so mentally ill and far gone that they really need someone else to just take custody of them. The hoarders this show has been able to really help generally fall into the first category. I heard it said somewhere that if you know you have a problem, you're not as mentally ill as someone who thinks they're just fine when they're really completely delusional.

Sandra really reminded me of my grandmother when she first developed dementia. The same anger, manipulation, and attempts to hide confusion and other problems. It's impossible to reason with someone like that, or even to set boundaries. Maybe they should have taken her to a doctor for evaluation? It was one of the hardest episodes for me to watch. I think the gay couple tried to be as nice to her as they could be. And I'm glad such a beautiful old house wasn't completely destroyed by the hoarding.

I was a little confused by Dr. Zasio's crying though. This isn't the first person they've run into who wouldn't get rid of anything or let them help. At least Sandra didn't have bags of poop overflowing the bathroom.

[rwgrab]

7 hours ago, notyrmomma said:

The two men were "nice" because they were giving her all of the money for the stuff, but bottom line, they wanted a free and publicized clean-up, so they put this woman and her friends and family through more distress (which I'm sure they have already had through the years).  I take back my comment that I was shocked that they were business men - it all makes perfect sense now...$14,000 for what could have been a $50,000 cleanup plus millions in free publicity for their new "designer showcase" all while getting the American public to believe that they are the most compassionate beings on earth--PRICELESS!

I totally understand seeing it that way, but for me I really got a different read on this show and the new owners.  

From Dr. Zas's perspective, I can see how having the hoarder there to face the hoard is very important in trying to break down the delusion that this all "just happened somehow".  It's the same reason they don't send hoarders off to Reno for a weekend while they clean out the house.  Regardless of whether she still owned the house and its contents, shuffling her off while they sell what they can allows her ignore that her thinking had a hand in her current situation.  Sure, the net result is the same since she didn't wind up understanding that, but I think there was a therapeutic reason for having her there instead of just having it be a chance to ridicule her on TV.

As for the new owners, I got more compassion than anything else from their motivation.  I think that scene where Eric knelt down and tried to connect with Sandra over some old decorations that were coming out of trash bag number 3,157 was heartbreaking for me.  He truly tried to reason with her about keeping them, and it seemed like he was just starting to understand that she was completely incapable of assessing their value.   By the end he really seemed to see how painful it was for her to let any of it go, despite its condition.

I think the whole team entered into this exercise thinking there would be some value in including Sandra.  Unfortunately as the charm wore away, it became obvious that there would be no way to make progress with her.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

"All I need is this ashtray...and this paddle game...AND THAT'S ALL I NEED! And this...the remote control..."

... and this croquet set...that's all  I need.

[camom]

I don't doubt that Michael and Eric's motives were good.  They owned the house (and everything in it) but didn't want to have Sandra arrested for trespassing.  They could have just thrown her out, hired a bunch of guys to clear the house (yes, an expense, but renovating that house is going to cost a lot so I don't think it would break the bank), and sold anything valuable and kept the money.  They chose not to do that.  Instead they sought help and received it.  

[AuntTora]

Assuming there were no piles of poo, or tubs full of urine, or sad animals or children, or rotten floorboards or toxic mold, or spiders or rats (or skulls), I think I would LOVE to be involved in a hoard cleanout. I would have paid my own way to fly to NC and go to work on some of those rooms. 

Hmmm, reading that first sentence back, maybe I'm not cut out for The Life after all.

[dwarmed]

4 hours ago, Wildcat said:

Why not just let her play in the garbage by the curb? 

Because she was on her way to blocking the entire street with her hoard. I don't see any reason that neighbors shouldn't be able to drive down the street to coddle her crazy. I don't think they should have allowed putting anything on the street for one minute.

[FormerMod-a1]

Exactly.  The neighbors are the ones that called the police whens he put stuff in the street.  It wasn't the show.

[ChipBach]

9 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

The hoarders are addicts & no different from any other addict. They lie, manipulate, use & abuse others to get & keep their 'fix'. Sandra was no different. I get that it is difficult to feel sympathy especially when bearing the brunt of their abuse. Even watching it happen to others is difficult, but I can also see the disease coming through. Who acts like that who doesn't have major issues? She was deep into it & didn't want any help, & kept clinging to her past.

She had no legal ground so she wasn't a threat anymore. She could've been taken off the property (& might have already been) without any fanfare for ratings. The worst thing to do with an addict is enable & play along with their nonsense. Allowing her to stay - for whatever reason - strung her along enough to feed her delusions of possibly getting the house back, & there's no doubt they & the show did benefit each in their own ways.

Removal -minus TV - no matter what would have happened, would have been natural consequences of her actions, & addicts do need to feel consequences of their actions, most often through extreme losses of people & things.

It's always sad to watch an addict choose their disease over a life, but they are adults & that is their choice to make. Regardless, hopefully this will jar her into seeing her reality & actually moving onto some kind of healing.

Yep - it was like the show was dangling a needle of heroin in front of a junkie for two hours and we were surprised when the junkie got mean...  She should have been respectfully taken off the grounds and let her three brothers take the lead on keeping an eye out for anything valuable or sentimental.  Her mind would not allow her to focus on important or sentimental objects and they just pissed away four days yelling at a sick woman.  Pretty sad.  I was also done with the Eric crying all the time.  I get it, she blew it, she's got nothing.  Instead of watching her feed her addiction for four days, send her off.  Then you are only crying on day one...  

[atlantaloves]

here is what I am sad about, not her, but Matt leaving forever.... That man is a saint! 

[camom]

Quote

she was on her way to blocking the entire street with her hoard. I don't see any reason that neighbors shouldn't be able to drive down the street to coddle her crazy.

At one point the code enforcement guy said that the permit for the closing of the street expired at 5:00.  So apparently that block was closed to traffic during the clean up (makes sense).  But yeah, let her play with her hoard on the street until the city comes and hauls it all away at 5:00.

[notyrmomma]

9 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

"And why assume these guys would be the bad guys of the neighborhood?" Because they're being treated as the bad guys here? For ennabling her? But if they simply booted her, they would be the two bad guys who kicked a grandmotherly woman out of her home of 30+ years? So they don't and now not only are they derided for ennabling her mental illness they also get to hear how no one gives a shit because *they* made the choice to not boot her and *they* have to live with the consequences. And the point about the 14k is that the 14k didn't actually come from the show - Sandra's compensation from the show is counseling assistance. The 14k came from the sale of items in the house that no longer belonged to her (the two guys who bought the foreclosure owned everything) and essentially gave her the 14k. Whether they were motivated by free clean up (more than likely) or not, Sandra got 14k for the sale of things from the house that she more than technically no longer owned. The show didn't pay her 14k, the sale of possessions from the house did that and that was something that the new homeowners did not have to do at all.

I don't think they are bad guys at all, I think they are wicked smart.  I do believe they had a lot of compassion, they gave her nearly a whole additional year of rent free living.  They would have been well within their rights to have her removed 10 days after they legally bought the place.  I'm just always looking for the real motive and am always very skeptical (and cynical) to accept things exactly as they are being presented to me.

4 hours ago, rwgrab said:

From Dr. Zas's perspective, I can see how having the hoarder there to face the hoard is very important in trying to break down the delusion that this all "just happened somehow".  It's the same reason they don't send hoarders off to Reno for a weekend while they clean out the house.  Regardless of whether she still owned the house and its contents, shuffling her off while they sell what they can allows her ignore that her thinking had a hand in her current situation.  Sure, the net result is the same since she didn't wind up understanding that, but I think there was a therapeutic reason for having her there instead of just having it be a chance to ridicule her on TV.

As for the new owners, I got more compassion than anything else from their motivation.  I think that scene where Eric knelt down and tried to connect with Sandra over some old decorations that were coming out of trash bag number 3,157 was heartbreaking for me.  He truly tried to reason with her about keeping them, and it seemed like he was just starting to understand that she was completely incapable of assessing their value.   By the end he really seemed to see how painful it was for her to let any of it go, despite its condition.

I think the whole team entered into this exercise thinking there would be some value in including Sandra.  Unfortunately as the charm wore away, it became obvious that there would be no way to make progress with her.

Agreed.  And I am sure the Zazz thought she had a chance to really help Sandra.  But it was very early in the process where it was evident that there was no way to make progress with her - like by day one at lunchtime.  Once the Zazz started to admit to everyone that she was only making Sandra more agitated and "someone else needs to talk to her", they should have pulled the plug and had Sandra removed from the property.  I will bet my lunch that it was the show's producers made the ultimate decision to keep her in there.

 

2 hours ago, dwarmed said:

Because she was on her way to blocking the entire street with her hoard. I don't see any reason that neighbors shouldn't be able to drive down the street to coddle her crazy. I don't think they should have allowed putting anything on the street for one minute.

Plus, it may have been the guys who ended up having to pay the fines for blocking the street because they are the homeowners and it was still technically their stuff.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were handed the bill for the city coming to take the stuff away.  The whole street incident should have never happened.  They should have shut her and her hair brained ideas down long before that point.

Edited January 24, 2017 by notyrmomma

[Court]

I think Sandra would tell one producer one thing and then another a different thing. We all saw even when she was confronted with her lying, she wouldn't admit it. She just kept changing the story. Matt said that Sandra continually pitted the producers against one another. I bet she tried to do it with the Zazz and Matt too.

Also, she told the brothers she would continue to sue them unless she was allowed to retrieve some stuff. I have real trouble seeing her as a victim here. 

My stone heart and I will be over here in the corner.

Just now, Court said:

I think Sandra would tell one producer one thing and then another a different thing. We all saw even when she was confronted with her lying, she wouldn't admit it. She just kept changing the story. Matt said that Sandra continually pitted the producers against one another. I bet she tried to do it with the Zazz and Matt too.

Also, she told the brothers she would continue to sue them unless she was allowed to retrieve some stuff. I have real trouble seeing her as a victim here. 

My stone heart and I will be over here in the corner.

[Rachel Pringle]

At the risk of playing arm chair psychiatrist, based on the examples of lying, manipulation, rage and pushing a professional to tears, I think Sandra has a personality disorder of some type.

[ChristmasJones]

Some notes from Matt's FB interview:

- 47 dumpsters removed - 3K lbs each = 70.5 tons  (Matt says 10 dumpster is a lot for a normal hoard)

- they had planned for Sandra to be gone in the morning of first day, but it took her 8 hours to leave

- all bathrooms were useable

- some of the folks in Sandra's crew were homeless

- Matt wants to hire Luther to come work with him

- Matt began working with family over a month before show- so he had already some type of relationship with Sandra and her brothers

- we saw the better parts of the day than actually happened ("editors were kind to Sandra")

- never been able to show that sometimes you do lose everything due to an addiction like hoarding

- Hoarders it NOT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let A&E know, he says - but - Matt is out, and needs to focus on his kids

- Matt has Dengue Fever, and scabies, skin rashes - crew gets lots of shots, gets taken care of

- hoarding caused by grief and consumption (more appearing in Asia, Canada, Europe now)

..video cut out about 20 minutes early.. so that is all I got.....

Found this in the article posted about the house:

The new owners have teamed up with Preservation Greensboro to select East Coast designers to decorate each room and the grounds.

Their event, planned for the fall, will let designers showcase their work to the public.

All proceeds will benefit Preservation Greensboro, a nonprofit that has saved local historic and architectural treasures. It operates Blandwood Mansion, former home to Gov. John Motley Morehead.

“We thought it would be a great opportunity to raise funds for a great organization like Preservation Greensboro and give everybody the opportunity to see the house and enjoy it,” Michael Fuko-Rizzo said.

http://www.greensboro.com/go_triad/film_tv/hoarders-tv-show-to-spotlight-historic-julian-price-home/article_5f384da4-32a9-5f90-b666-108905b3cd14.html

Edited January 25, 2017 by ChristmasJones

[Muffyn]

10 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Yup. I was waiting for her to find a "treasured" Big Gulp cup and put that in her "to go" truck. At one point, when she was just frantically putting literal garbage into boxes, I think she was cosplaying Steve Martin in The Jerk: "All I need is this ashtray...and this paddle game...AND THAT'S ALL I NEED! And this...the remote control..."

 

I think of this scene every time a hoarder starts amassing random "precious" things.

I had a hoarder tenant and I can assure you he did a great job of convincing the neighbors that he was neat, clean and organized and that he was the one holding the building together.  I finally showed our neighbor the tenant's hoard in the basement and described his apartment to him.  when I finally got him to move, many neighbors talked to me about what a shame it was that he had to leave, what a great tenant/person he was, etc. So yeah, I can understand the concern that there would be neighbors that would hate the new owners,, believing they had kicked a person out of their home of many years.  Sandra is a manipulative liar.  While that comes with her illness, it is very extreme in her case.  I believe she would do anything to try to convince people that she was being victimized.  We saw a small part of it.  I am sure there was much more.          

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ChristmasJones said:

- Matt wants to hire Luther to come work with him

 

YES! Luther was a KING! 

[dwarmed]

Watched Matt's FB video. I understand the need to have compassion and empathy with hoarders to do what he does, but I always find it incredibly gross when he goes on about how ALL the hoarders are the most special, amazing, loving people. We have seen that many of them are abusive to children, animals, their family members/friends, they endanger their community etc. To speak of them in such glowing terms seems like a disservice to the people/creatures they have hurt. It also ignores the ugly reality of this mental illness, which often includes being self-centered, mean and awful. I don't think it's right to excuse someone for harming everyone around them by saying it's all the mental illness, but they really have a heart of gold underneath or they just "messed up". If heaping monstrous abuse on helpless beings doesn't qualify you as a bad person (or at least someone who should not be described as special and amazing), I wonder what does.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Hoarders Sings A Possible Swan Song To One Very Special Hoard

The de-hoarding of a sprawling North Carolina mansion proves emotionally wrenching for hoarder and expert alike.

[TattleTeeny]

21 hours ago, AuntTora said:

Assuming there were no piles of poo, or tubs full of urine, or sad animals or children, or rotten floorboards or toxic mold, or spiders or rats (or skulls), I think I would LOVE to be involved in a hoard cleanout. I would have paid my own way to fly to NC and go to work on some of those rooms. 

Hmmm, reading that first sentence back, maybe I'm not cut out for The Life after all.

Just try a local estate sale instead! Fulfills what I'm assuming is a desire to root through old treasures (I have it too) in less stressful conditions!

[Mrsjumbo]

Gorgeous house.

Glad there is a possibility the show is not done. Love Matt, I will miss him.

I didn't understand why the homeowner (Michael?) had to confront Sandra. You had the psychologist, the police, her brothers there. He was being generous enough as it was to let Sandra pick through her things. I didn't think it was his responsibility to manage her. As he said "I'm not even related to her!".