S01.E13: Three Sentences

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh, I can just tell those bastards are going to have Jack die in the flashbacks in the same episode that William dies in the present, and I`m sorry that I`ll be late to the discussion, but I`ll need to put off watching the finale until Friday afternoon, so I can take the whole weekend to cry without it affecting work. Just the glimpse of Jacks funeral made my heart hurt. He was so young! The kids only looked like they were in their teens!

Really good episode, lots of interesting stuff that fits in with what we have seen before. So Kevin was married to Kates childhood best friend? Interesting. So we say goodbye to the love triangle, and hello to Kevin attempting to get his ex wife back. And we see where Kevin got his dramatic streak! We still don't know what exactly made him want to be a professional actor, but we can see how much he loved playing to a crowd, and how he enjoys play acting in general. We also got to see the kid Big Three playing and being cute. Then, of course, we get Jacks funeral. Oy.

Kate can be a bit annoying, but I really felt for her when she was screaming in her exercise class. It must have been awful for her, losing her dad so early. I wonder if that's when she really started getting overweight, or let it get out of control. Jack was just such a great dad. I don't mind him being an awesome husband and father. He still comes off as real to me.

Speaking of Kate, congrats Kate, you have found a guy who makes Toby look like a model of subtlety and tact. I cant stand house guy already. How does Kate only seem to attract these super intense guys who sexually latch onto her instantly? I'm not a huge Toby fan, but I thought he was pretty likable in his scenes with Kevin, and at least he knew Kate was single and interested when he started hitting on her. This guy started acting like they were instantly going to be having sex even after she told him she was engaged! I have no idea if he's an employee or a camper. I thought he was a camper, but I might be wrong. Either way, dude was creepy, and I will be pissed if Kate actually falls for his bullshit.

Bolding mine.

In my official amateur psychoanalyst capacity I'd say we've seen exactly what made Kevin want to be an actor -- to get the attention which was almost impossible to get from mom and dad growing up.

[KaveDweller]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Nitpick #1: none of the kids I knew had theme parties in 1990. Things were not like now. A theme party in the 80s meant your mom bought the matching paper plates and napkins with a cartoon character for the cake and ice cream, and if you were lucky you got an ice cream cake from Baskin Robbins with the little plastic characters on top. So having a Madonna themed party and a Princess Bride themed party? That definitely didn't happen with anyone I knew. I mean, I applaud Kate and Kevin for having awesome taste because I loved Madonna and the Princess Bride (I still love both of them!), but no. And party favors back then were a little plastic bag with candy and maybe a plastic ring. No one I knew would have bedazzled gloves to give to everyone.

I had theme parties as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s. Lots of my friends did. When I was six I had a doll themed party where everyone had to bring a doll, and we made jewelry for ourselves and mini doll jewelry to match, and played pin the star on Rainbow Bright's face.  And a couple years later I had a Baby-Sitters Club themed party where everyone had to dress up as a character from the books. I was clearly not as cool as Kate and Kevin with their Modonna and Princess Bride themes. I did once attend a New Kids on the Block party though. 

8 hours ago, AriAu said:

I binge watched this show last week-what episode points that out? Also, Rebecca lives there too, right? Wonder when they all moved?

They referred to Randall being in NJ in the Thanksgiving episode. Olivia whined about not wanting to go to New Jersey when Kevin invited her to dinner. 

I don't recall them ever saying Miguel and Rebecca lived in the house the kids all grew up in. I have been listening to any references for it too, because they have clearly been showing them living closer to NYC than Pittsburgh. In the Christmas episode they showed them going back and forth between their house and Randall's. The writers can't be THAT bad at geography, can they.

I wish they had explained Kate evidently moving to the east coast. She has been there since Thanksgiving so she must have left her job. Toby being there can be explained because they said he wasn't supposed to travel, and maybe was ordered by the doctor to not fly home right away. 

Regarding the name "Sofie" on the mean girls' note in the pool episode, it could just be that someone on the writing staff really likes the name Sophie so they picked that for the note.  If it was supposed to be the same girl, they would have paid more attention. Plus in this episode, Jack and Rebecca had never heard of Sophie before. If she'd been a mean girl bothering Kate the year before, wouldn't they have remembered her?

[DayGlorious]

6 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Lots of times when people go to college, they stay in that city/area if they've liked it and gotten a first job there or have a significant other.  That could have happened with one or more of them.

Randall and Beth, maybe. But somehow I suspect that Kevin either flunked out/dropped out of college early on or never went in the first place. Neither his open disdain for Randall's study habits nor his mediocre elementary-school grades point to him being academically inclined, and the way Randall sacked him repeatedly in that middle-school football game suggests that he wasn't sports-scholarship material either. (Pure speculation, I know. But speculation is fun, especially in the face of shaky plausibility. One kid moving there, sure. Two kids, maybe, if there is some compelling reason for it. Whole stinkin' family...not so much.)

[luna1122]

I don't know.  I definitely got more male attention when I was young and thin, but being old n fat hasn't stopped it. I get hit on and catcalled on buses and walking down the street and eating lunch in my office building cafe. Not with the frequency of when I was younger and thinner and prettier, thank goodness,  but it still happens.   Of course, even if I were not in a relationship, many of these are not guys I'd give the time of day, let alone date. Kind of like Toby and HorseCreep. I'm gonna need a show of hands of women here who would actually be interested in either of those guys; I'm going to imagine it's a short list. And not cuz they're overweight, but because they're douchebags. Also, I kind of think Toby and horse guy were like "well, she's fat and desperate, even I probably stand a chance with her", not because they're really truly panting with desire over her. I do agree it's all weirdly written, how immediately sexual these guys are, and maybe the writers are really overcompensating. But...large women do find love and sex all the time. It's not that unusual.  (And...it's not always with a fat guy, either, writers.) And we've seen exactly TWO men express interest in Kate. Men are not just falling at her feet. Which is why she falls for their BS, cuz she's not used to the attention.

I hope the guy who called a size 14 woman fat on the street got a mouthful of fist.  Or at least a 'fuck off, troglodyte" I'd love to be a size 14 again.

I do agree that some women would find HorseCreep not creepy if he looked like Kevin or Randall, but ugh, gross. He'd still be an asshole.

[Crs97]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Toby being there can be explained because they said he wasn't supposed to travel, and maybe was ordered by the doctor to not fly home right away. 

As he was driving Kate to the retreat center, he said that he wasn't allowed to fly.  That is why he was stuck in the city and she asked Kevin to hang out with him.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, Crs97 said:

As he was driving Kate to the retreat center, he said that he wasn't allowed to fly.  That is why he was stuck in the city and she asked Kevin to hang out with him.

It's also possible that he is working remotely.  From Miguel and Rebecca's guest room.  (Okay, not sure about that last part....)

[I-Kare]

34 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've been trying to avoid this angle, because I think all of my thoughts on this will just start to vomit out.  But yes. I think the writers are DEEPLY overcompensating for Kate being an overweight person and their reaction is to make you think that "Hey it doesn't matter that Kate is fat. Look at how psychotic men are over her."  It's insulting to my intelligence.  Men of all walks of life, ages, races, stared at me when I was in shape, and now that I'm overweight, THEY DON'T LOOK.  That's "reality" as I see it.  I've also been called "fat" by male strangers on the street.  (I'm like a size 14.) That would be more realistic to me than Toby and Horse Whisperer, but whatever, maybe it is a realistic depiction for some.

I'm not as large as Kate, but I am a size 22/24 and I joke I've been plus size since birth (a lot like Kate, only my twin is female and was always a size 0...that's a different post since she and I ate the same/exercised the same). I have to say I've always gotten my fair share of attention from both men and women. So for me it's realistic. The only unrealistic part (compared to my life) is that I don't seem to attract psychotic men...not that I'm complaining about that! =D

Edited January 26, 2017 by I-Kare
adding a word I left out

[sasha206]

10 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I don't know.  I definitely got more male attention when I was young and thin, but being old n fat hasn't stopped it. I get hit on and catcalled on buses and walking down the street and eating lunch in my office building cafe. Not with the frequency of when I was younger and thinner and prettier, thank goodness,  but it still happens.   Of course, even if I were not in a relationship, many of these are not guys I'd give the time of day, let alone date. Kind of like Toby and HorseCreep. I'm gonna need a show of hands of women here who would actually be interested in either of those guys; I'm going to imagine it's a short list. And not cuz they're overweight, but because they're douchebags. Also, I kind of think Toby and horse guy were like "well, she's fat and desperate, even I probably stand a chance with her", not because they're really truly panting with desire over her. I do agree it's all weirdly written, how immediately sexual these guys are, and maybe the writers are really overcompensating. But...large women do find love and sex all the time. It's not that unusual.  (And...it's not always with a fat guy, either, writers.) And we've seen exactly TWO men express interest in Kate. Men are not just falling at her feet. Which is why she falls for their BS, cuz she's not used to the attention.

I hope the guy who called a size 14 woman fat on the street got a mouthful of fist.  Or at least a 'fuck off, troglodyte" I'd love to be a size 14 again.

I do agree that some women would find HorseCreep not creepy if he looked like Kevin or Randall, but ugh, gross. He'd still be an asshole.

Were you morbidly obese and getting that type of attention? I mean Kate is morbidly obese.  She's not just fat.  I've never seen someone as large as Kate get hit on like a meteor fell on these poor unsuspecting guys.

Edited January 26, 2017 by sasha206

[luna1122]

Just now, sasha206 said:

Were you morbidly obese and getting that type of attention? I mean Kate is morbidly obese.  She's not just fat.  

No, but I'm a big girl. Yeah, Kate is VERY big. But she's still pretty, and these guys...well, they aren't Ryan Gosling. They are hitting on a woman they think they can get, and it's not very many guys, at that. No, most guys are not going to hit on her. But these two fat jerks are.  It's not really any more unbelievable to me than the chicks on "girls" or "sex and the city" getting hit on all the time. I mean, it's all a little unbelievable, esp when I know really pretty women who can't score a date, but it's TV.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, luna1122 said:

No, but I'm a big girl. Yeah, Kate is VERY big. But she's still pretty, and these guys...well, they aren't Ryan Gosling. They are hitting on a woman they think they can get, and it's not very many guys, at that. No, most guys are not going to hit on her. But these two fat jerks are.  It's not really any more unbelievable to me than the chicks on "girls" or "sex and the city" getting hit on all the time. I mean, it's all a little unbelievable, esp when I know really pretty women who can't score a date, but it's TV.

She is pretty no question.  I think she's gorgeous.  It's not that I don't think men would fall in love with her because of her weight or that they would hit on her.  It's just that those two men, the only men other than her brothers and dad that we've really seen her interact with, both are acting as though some sort of cupid's arrow struck.  And both can't wait to bed her.  

I just personally believe her weight struggles would be much more realistic if she was struggling in the man department.  I mean, the way she seems so surprised by the attention indicates this is a new thing for her, but I could see her life being a series of, "She has a pretty face.  It's too bad she is so fat."   

[elle]

40 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

And I could even buy the horse trainer liking her...if they didn't make it seem like one look and he's inviting her to his room.

It is exactly his "one look and you are mine" attitude that make all the red flags go flying for me, regardless of Kate's size.

[theatremouse]

8 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Ah, okay, I can see the reason in that.  What about Kate and Kevin?  I believe they said their classes had similar rules (I'm not 100% on that).

Randall is the only one who mentioned the rule. He was "meh" about having his own party and then pointed out the rule from his school. The other two went to a different school and basically just announced they wanted separate parties.

 

To this point I have neither loved nor loathed Jack. However, the look on his face when he was like "I'm vogueing!" for Kate's benefit was fucking adorable.

 

I do not think Sophie was ever really Kate's best friend, nor do I think she was hanging out with her to get near Kevin, at least not consciously. I think it was the other direction. I think basically Kevin and Kate were both sort of enamoured with Sophie. Even in the very first scene when Kate said Sophie was her best friend, my first impulse was that she and Kate were probably friends, and probably hanging out more recently than they perhaps did before, but I think Kate was trying to make the bff thing happen. I loved the "we drifted" line, but I do wonder if she actually drifted from Grace (which is totally reasonable and could've certainly happened at that age and if so, I love how chill young-Kate was about it), or if Kate just sort of decided she preferred Sophie and made the shift herself (to me just as probable).

[WhosThatGirl]

12 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

Randall is the only one who mentioned the rule. He was "meh" about having his own party and then pointed out the rule from his school. The other two went to a different school and basically just announced they wanted separate parties.

 

To this point I have neither loved nor loathed Jack. However, the look on his face when he was like "I'm vogueing!" for Kate's benefit was fucking adorable.

 

I do not think Sophie was ever really Kate's best friend, nor do I think she was hanging out with her to get near Kevin, at least not consciously. I think it was the other direction. I think basically Kevin and Kate were both sort of enamoured with Sophie. Even in the very first scene when Kate said Sophie was her best friend, my first impulse was that she and Kate were probably friends, and probably hanging out more recently than they perhaps did before, but I think Kate was trying to make the bff thing happen. I loved the "we drifted" line, but I do wonder if she actually drifted from Grace (which is totally reasonable and could've certainly happened at that age and if so, I love how chill young-Kate was about it), or if Kate just sort of decided she preferred Sophie and made the shift herself (to me just as probable).

Plus Randall mentioned the rule when Rebecca said "what about a few kids from your school" or something.  Like Randall probably would have been fine sharing a party and not asking anyone to come, but then his parents said he could invite some kids from school and he knew he had to ask everyone. I guess there was no rule in Kate and Kevin's school and they probably just asked friends. To be honest,  remember it was just common curtesy that all classmates got invited to my birthday parties. Up until about age 12 and then it become more of the sleepover variety, at least for me.

I just feel like I always invited all of my classmates to my birthdays. It wasn't a rule though, it was just something I remember doing. I do remember though not everyone did that. 

My favorite moment from the episode was when Rebecca and Jack were trying to poach kids, Jack was like "how do you not like magic?" 

Edited January 26, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

When I was six I had a doll themed party where everyone had to bring a doll, and we made jewelry for ourselves and mini doll jewelry to match, and played pin the star on Rainbow Bright's face.  And a couple years later I had a Baby-Sitters Club themed party where everyone had to dress up as a character from the books. I was clearly not as cool as Kate and Kevin with their Modonna and Princess Bride themes. I did once attend a New Kids on the Block party though. 

I am a few years older than the Big Three are and I believe the first party I had that wasn't a theme party was when I was 13/14 and told my mother I was too cool for such a thing and the same with most of my friends. Magic, fisherman, cowboys, pirates, Grease and Barbie were all themes I had. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by biakbiak

[jhlipton]

On 1/24/2017 at 10:36 PM, bybrandy said:

I  feel like Sophie is using Kate to get to Kevin.

I felt like Kevin was using Kate to get to Sophie.

 

16 hours ago, Randomosity said:

I distinctly recall that during my elementary school years (late 80's-'91) that the generic "Punk Rocker", looking pretty much as the girls were in the episode, was in HEAVY rotation as a Halloween costume. And that drew not only on Madonna's style, but others like Cyndi Lauper; her crazy look was also very much early 80s.

Pat Benatar started making her hits in the early 70s --"Love Is a Battlefield" (which was all about that look) came out in 1983 -- same with Suzi Quatro.  Blondie's "The Tide is High" came out in 1980. (Can you tell what 15 to 17 year-old Jeff listened to?)

 

10 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

So much yes!  Hey, I like a grand gesture as much as the next person--but it only really works when it is, shall we say, a sure thing.  The proposal on the jumbotron only works when the proposer KNOWS the proposee is going to say yes.  However, if the proposer doesn't know what the proposee will say and then uses the public proposal to ensure a yes, that's just wrong--and it is a lot like how Toby uses the grand gesture.  And that is not right, in any sense.

Yes, but in the moment-and with an audience--it is definitely hard to get that "no" out.  

The guy proposes up on the JumboTron -- the whole ballpark is with him.  His girl says "No."  She's going to be pelted with trash by everyone who sees her -- at a minimum.

8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Thanks everyone for the answer to my question.  And sorry , AriAu, that I misunderstood your answer.

But it did lead to an amusing sequence of posts!

[Racj82]

On Tue Jan 24 2017 at 10:40 PM, stonehaven said:

I love this show..but I think I need to watch it some other time..NCIS was so riveting and tense that to watch a show about relationships right after it seemed a let-down. Still, all the Randall stuff was great...and I may be an idiot but I swear I thought the blonde chick was Olivia..not his ex-wife...

I do think they are laying on the Super-Dad Jack thing a bit thick...and I think the Madonna party was Sophie's idea....she seemed to be one of those girls that says "I'll be your friend if you do everything I want"...and I can see why Kevin and Sophie clicked....their personalities and self-absorption seem similar...

I love the idea of having a Princess Bride party...I wonder if Kevin knew any other lines besides the one he kept spouting...

Jack and Rebecca  were awesome this episode but also neither one of them were super parents. Jack has a different relationship with Kate as he points out so he would be the one to try and cheer her up but that didn't make him super dad. He also failed.

[J-Man]

It seems like it's been a quite a while since Kate and Toby have abandoned their homes, their friends, their jobs, and their lives back in California. And yet they're never mentioned. Does Toby have no friends or relatives who visited him when he had his surgery? Why didn't he return home to recuperate? (Or even to have the surgery?) What about their respective jobs? I find this gap in the storytelling really annoying.

[Racj82]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Were you morbidly obese and getting that type of attention? I mean Kate is morbidly obese.  She's not just fat.  I've never seen someone as large as Kate get hit on like a meteor fell on these poor unsuspecting guys.

Two guys does not a meteor make.

[Tiger]

10 hours ago, voiceover said:

Not at all.  I posted something like this too.  And I'm sure you & me -- well, we're not the only ones.

That is one of the things that Art does best: make a universal emotion (loss of a parent) seem so personal & immediate.

*slinks off to get the kleenex*

I think the folks that accuse this show of trying to emotionally manipulative are 100% correct, but for me it's also carthatic.  I lost a truly perfect parent when I was relatively young and it left with deep emotional scars just like Kate.  So when Kate unleashes a prim scream as I have many times, it hits me in a really deep place.

7 hours ago, AriAu said:

On a completely different track, we know Jack dies and we have no idea when or how. So, why did we have to hear Kevin as Inigo Montoya keep saying "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya....you killed my FATHER, prepare to die". Foreshadowing (or what ever we call it in the jumping all over the place format of this show) or just one of the great lines in movie history. Did someone have something to do with Jack's death..., no., INCONCEIVABLE! At least Kevin did not run around saying "As you wish"......although that would have been the perfect response to Sophie's text....since it is  True Love...and its not like that happens everyday.

The stable boy was clearly more Rodent of Unusual Size than Wesley?

Ok, I'll stop now.....and go watch it for the millionth time.

I suspect that maybe Jack's death was a result of a workplace accident that Kevin & Randall blame on Miguel but that truly isnt his fault.

8 minutes ago, J-Man said:

It seems like it's been a quite a while since Kate and Toby have abandoned their homes, their friends, their jobs, and their lives back in California. And yet they're never mentioned. Does Toby have no friends or relatives who visited him when he had his surgery? Why didn't he return home to recuperate? (Or even to have the surgery?) What about their respective jobs? I find this gap in the storytelling really annoying.

They need to explain where Kate & Toby are living and what they are doing for money.  Even a throaway line that Kate is working for Jami Gertz's NY office.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Tiger

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, Tiger said:

They need to explain where Kate & Toby are living and what they are doing for money.  Even a throaway line that Kate is working for Jami Gertz's NY office.

Except Jami Gertz didn't even have an LA office. Kate was working out of Jami's home.

[Tiger]

Just now, chocolatine said:

Except Jami Gertz didn't even have an LA office. Kate was working out of Jami's home.

Okay then Jami's husband's company.  

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I guess there was no rule in Kate and Kevin's school and they probably just asked friends. To be honest,  remember it was just common curtesy that all classmates got invited to my birthday parties. Up until about age 12 and then it become more of the sleepover variety, at least for me.

I have to say, I don't think it is a bad rule at that age, maybe up until middle school. Or at least to invite all girls/boys depending on the gender. Not to sound pathetic, but when I was in second grade, this girl invited all the girls in our class except me to her party. I don't remember why it was a big deal, but everyone was talking about it in school for weeks and poor 7-year-old me was crushed. She told me it was because her mom wouldn't give her time to write more invitations and mine was just the last one on the class list. Which is a pretty lame answer looking back.

Honestly, you'd think it would be common courtesy for parents to either keep it to a handful of people or invite everyone. Kids usually end up in cliques as they get older, but teaching them to be friendly to everyone at a young age can't hurt. My parents also made me go to any party of a classmate I was invited to at that age, unless there was a real reason I couldn't. I'm kind of surprised some kids in Randall's class wouldn't have showed up because of that, especially since it sounded like he had gone to other kid's parties. I would say people could have been on vacation in August, but they established school was in session.

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Okay then Jami's husband's company.  

I wouldn't even care if they changed Jami's company to be huge with a NY office, or even had her go back to being Kevin's assistant. Just make some reference to the fact that she just left her home. Or even say she is living with Rebecca because she has no income. I mean, did she go back and give up her house/apartment? Get all her stuff?

I am glad they have her there interacting with the rest of the family, but it is weird to not mention it.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I have to say, I don't think it is a bad rule at that age, maybe up until middle school. Or at least to invite all girls/boys depending on the gender. Not to sound pathetic, but when I was in second grade, this girl invited all the girls in our class except me to her party. I don't remember why it was a big deal, but everyone was talking about it in school for weeks and poor 7-year-old me was crushed. She told me it was because her mom wouldn't give her time to write more invitations and mine was just the last one on the class list. Which is a pretty lame answer looking back.

Honestly, you'd think it would be common courtesy for parents to either keep it to a handful of people or invite everyone. Kids usually end up in cliques as they get older, but teaching them to be friendly to everyone at a young age can't hurt. My parents also made me go to any party of a classmate I was invited to at that age, unless there was a real reason I couldn't. I'm kind of surprised some kids in Randall's class wouldn't have showed up because of that, especially since it sounded like he had gone to other kid's parties. I would say people could have been on vacation in August, but they established school was in session.

I wouldn't even care if they changed Jami's company to be huge with a NY office, or even had her go back to being Kevin's assistant. Just make some reference to the fact that she just left her home. Or even say she is living with Rebecca because she has no income. I mean, did she go back and give up her house/apartment? Get all her stuff?

I am glad they have her there interacting with the rest of the family, but it is weird to not mention it.

I think it's a good rule too. 12 was the age when it stopped because like you said we were reaching middle school and then it was all about sleepovers for girls! But yeah, I said in my post, some kids didn't invite everyone to their parties when they were little, but I remember inviting everyone, at least more once. I was surprised Rebecca and Jack were shocked by this information that it was a rule. 

[possibilities]

I get why the rule about inviting the entire class is a good idea, but ye gods, an elementary school classroom can have 35 students! That's a lot of kids to host at one time, and it's very expensive, too, to host that many kids.

RE who men hit on and why, I think some do it because of attraction but others do it as a from of predation and to feel powerful. Toby seems to genuinely be into Kate, but HorseGuy struck me as pure predator. I'm sure he does this with anyone where he thinks he can get away with it.

In my own experience, there was a period of time when I was going through some stuff emotionally and was feeling vulnerable and anxious, and during that time I was suddenly a magnet for a wave of random, frequent lewd comments from men everywhere I went, in a way I had never experienced before and have not experienced since. It was like I was suddenly way more attractive to random jerks, like they were drawn to me because they could sense I was a target, or they got off on the insecure vibe I was unconsciously putting out. It wasn't even guys who would interact with me to discern my state of mind, it was just suddenly strangers, men on the street, people standing on line at the post office, etc. It was not flattering at all. When I'm my usual self, feeling confident and grounded, etc., the attention I get is not predatory, it just feels different.

I took HorseGuy as being predatory, and that he was picking up on Kate's insecurity and social/emotional discomfort being at the retreat, and in his head he was thinking she MUST be an easy target because she's the fattest person there and he assumes she has crap self-esteem. If he was really sensing something about her that he liked, he would be more respectful, he'd smile, he'd try to get to know her, he'd seek her company, he'd ASK her to spend time with him. Toby is pushy, but even he ASKS rather than TELLS her what she's going to do. But all HorseGuy did was leer, and try to undermine her confidence, and move in on her boundaries (even grabbing her phone). He's not acting like a guy who's in love at first sight, he's acting like a bully.

I hope the show isn't stupid enough to have Kate fall for it. But honestly I don't trust them on this issue. So, I'm taking a wait and see attitude before I decide what I think about this storyline.

[CofCinci]

How is Kate paying for this camp?

[mojoween]

I'm going to fanwank since it was recommended by a physician it is somehow covered by insurance.  Now how Kate has this insurance since we don't even know if she still has a job is another story.

[talktoomuch]

Why does Young Randall's wardrobe seem to mostly consist of starched white dress shirts? Young Kevin is dressed as DPR, Young Kate as Madonna, and Randall as Warren Buffett?

[marny]

So, have we all just decided Kate is never going back to work?

[ShadowFacts]

16 minutes ago, marny said:

So, have we all just decided Kate is never going back to work?

That camp has to be very pricey, it looked like a spa.  And didn't the doctor say it was month-long?  I do not see any insurance coverage for that.  We can't even suppose that Kate has a severance package from her brief last job.  Unless Kevin is bankrolling this.  Or Randall.  Kate has been in New Jersey/New York since Thanksgiving and it's January.  Toby has only been there a couple weeks since Christmas, so he could be on paid time off from his job still.  But Kate has no visible means of support. 

[talktoomuch]

15 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

But Kate has no visible means of support. 

Besides two wealthy brothers and a presumably wealthy stepfather. 

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Honestly, you'd think it would be common courtesy for parents to either keep it to a handful of people or invite everyone. Kids usually end up in cliques as they get older, but teaching them to be friendly to everyone at a young age can't hurt.

The childrearing books used to say the number of party guests should equal the age of the child, but that may  mean for pre-school kids.   The biggest problems come from those "very large number minus a few" situations, as you've learned. If I had been your mother, there would have been a visit to  that little birthday girl's mother. What the hell?

  No one had huge theme parties in my little town at all, but I remember some sad Charlie Brown situations on Valentine's Day.

[Guest]

Miguel is wealthy?  I didn't realize that.  

I would almost rather them pretend like mundane things like a job and money are no object for Kate than try to give her some non-job that makes no sense for her to be flitting around the country with and never shown working, which seems like the other option.  Well, I don't know which is worse.  They made Randall into a quant who does sales, which isn't really a thing, to get him to have this important, short deadline this ep.  

I've never seen Notting Hill.  I don't do rom-coms.  I've worn my hair the same for decades, pretty much, too, and so have my 3 sisters.   In defense of Rebecca's feathered-ish 1990 style, I guess.  

I didn't mind the Madonna costumes but I'm surprised the people who did didn't mention that was her first hit, 1983's Borderline, playing in Kate's bedroom.  Not that kids didn't listen to 7-year-old music, but it seems like the writers were harking back to a younger Madonna, for sure.  Which is probably appropriate, given how she did get more adult over time, in look and song content.  

Edited January 26, 2017 by Guest

[Big Mother]

Forgive me if these have been addressed yet, but

 

1) At the time of this birthday party, Rebecca and Jack are 46 years old. It's a tad too late to start trying for another kid. Flukes happen, but most 46 yr olds do not get pregnant without some form of medical assistance. So even if both of them were on board, someone shoulve mentioned that it would be an uphill battle. Also: Not a single gray hair on either of them or any sign of encroaching middle age? Time seemed to have stood still there.

 

2) Kevin 'loves' Sophie. Seriously? At age 10? Most ten year olds still find girls 'gross' and make fun of them. It's not normal to feel in love at age 10. Unless it was just a 'cute' friendship at age 10 which blossomed into a high school romance.

 

3) Regarding the question of when Jack died. I tend to lean towards him dying somewhere around 2006 rather than when the kids are fifteen. Bc if he died when they were 15, it's been 21 years, and memories do tend to dim over time. So having so many strong storylines/memories all centering around a 15 year span, really constricts them in terms of storylines. How many DRAMATIC things can still happenm in the next five yrs in terms of stories? But.... on the other hand, there's no way that Jack still looked so young and dark  if he died at age 62. (it's also a suspension of disbelief, honestly, if he still looked so young and dark if he died at age 51.)

 

I was also really annoyed at William dragging Randall around to fulfill his dying man's dreams during a busy workday. My 2 theories are, either 1) this is his true personality - a little self centered and out of touch,  a dreamer and romantic, similar to what we've seen of him as a young man in flashbacks, and the cancer and chemo suppressed that and suppressed his personality, but now he's baaaaack, and this is who he really is - not the saint we've come to know.  Or: 2) getting off his chemo gave him such a high, he hasnt felt this good in ages, that he was just blinded by his good feeling and didn't stop to think of the bigger picture.

but it really annoyed me.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Big Mother

[luna1122]

I fell in love twenty times by the time I was ten, once with a older boy of 16. Not that anything at all happened with any of it, and maybe boys are different, but I have no real problem with the idea of ten year olds thinking they're in love.

I thought it was established that Rebecca was 6 years younger than Jack? So she'd have been 40 at the party. Neither looks 40 or 46, that is definitely true, but it's not unheard of for women to have babies at 40.

The kids definitely looked like teenagers at the funeral. Had it been 2006, they'd be in their twenties.

Notting Hill kind of sucks, but I'm not a rom com gal either. And I hate Julia Roberts, so there's that.

[cryptaknight]

Rebecca was not 46. Rebecca would have been 39 or 40 at that point. Jack is 46. It might be a risky pregnancy, but not outside of the norm completely. My grandmother was 40 when she had my dad in 1952. As for their hair, well... hair dye is a thing.

I don't know if Miguel is wealthy, but he had a very nice house when Randall stopped by to talk to Rebecca after their falling out. He's comfortable, at the very least.

Edited January 26, 2017 by cryptaknight
Math is hard

[Guest]

I'm "comfortable" but I'm not sending any adult step-kid to month-long fat camp.  Or myself, for that matter.   ; )

I didn't mind Kevin's 10-year-old proclamation of love but I thought Moore had a total non-reaction to it, compared to what most parents would've done.  She waited until it was her line to facially show any surprise or expression at all, I thought.

Horse dude's name is Duke, I think.  Wasn't that what his name tag, said?  How rustic and John Wayne of those writers.  

[marny]

Pregnancy at 40 isn't crazy. My grandmother gave birth to her first child (my mom) at age 40 in 1946. 

As for gray hair, I'm 40 and dark-haired. but have yet to have my first gray hair (knock wood). 

[Big Mother]

Okay if she was 40 thats another story. I thought she was 36 too the day of the birth. got confused.

[Aloeonatable]

44 minutes ago, cryptaknight said:

Rebecca was not 46. Rebecca would have been 39 or 40 at that point. Jack is 46. It might be a risky pregnancy, but not outside of the norm completely. My grandmother was 40 when she had my dad in 1952. As for their hair, well... hair dye is a thing.

I don't know if Miguel is wealthy, but he had a very nice house when Randall stopped by to talk to Rebecca after their falling out. He's comfortable, at the very least.

My husband didn't get a gray hair until he was in his late 40s. I got my first one in my 20s. My daughter had her first child at 41 and her second at 43. No problems getting pregnant or delivering healthy babies. 

My grandmother actually had my mother at 40 years old and my uncle at 48. My grandfather was in his early 50s when my uncle was born.

[tribeca]

My heart melted a little when kid Kevin said he loved her.    Jack and Rebecca reactions were adorable.   Being the middle ignored child I ant help but it root for that kid. 

   The only person I find perfect on this show is Randall.  I like him but Jezze his the perfect kid and adult.  

Kate is played by a talented actor and could be an interesting character.  They has to be more to her than her weight. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Big Mother said:

) this is his true personality - a little self centered and out of touch,  a dreamer and romantic, similar to what we've seen of him as a young man in flashbacks, and the cancer and chemo suppressed that and suppressed his personality, but now he's baaaaack, and this is who he really is - not the saint we've come to know.  

Wouldn't it be something if his cancer goes into remission and we find out he is a giant jerk?  It would be hard to believe, because the actor who plays him is so charming, but it would be hilarious if  after months of mooching and no longer dying, saintly Randall is like "Look William, finding my biological father thing has been cool, but you gots to go...now."  Then we have William doing the manipulative old man shuffling and mumbling "I'm sure you do not want a former crackhead like me around your perfect family" and Randall replied "That's right... and don't let the door hit you on your way out."

I am an evil person.

[ShadowFacts]

2 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Wouldn't it be something if his cancer goes into remission and we find out he is a giant jerk?  It would be hard to believe, because the actor who plays him is so charming, but it would be hilarious if  after months of mooching and no longer dying, saintly Randall is like "Look William, finding my biological father thing has been cool, but you gots to go...now."  Then we have William doing the manipulative old man shuffling and mumbling "I'm sure you do not want a former crackhead like me around your perfect family" and Randall replied "That's right... and don't let the door hit you on your way out."

I am an evil person.

It can't really play out that way since we've seen a flashforward of Randall sadly packing up William's things. 

1 hour ago, talktoomuch said:

Besides two wealthy brothers and a presumably wealthy stepfather. 

Yeah, I said unless Randall or Kevin were bankrolling her.  Don't know about Miguel.  I should have said no apparent means of self-support.  Which most 36 year olds should want to be.  I don't read Kate as a freeloading type, so I'd like a line or two of dialogue about it -- she's running out of her savings, she's thinking about a new career, something.  I don't care too much about Madonna details, but I would really like to know how she and Toby pay their way.  He may still have a job to go back to, but I don't think she does. 

[Crs97]

With absolutely no evidence to support this belief, in my head Toby is a decently successful small business owner, maybe a technical consultant of done type, that he can work from anywhere and create his own hours and has 1-2 employees to take the slack after his heart attack.  Again, nothing beyond my own imagination to support this, but it works for me.

[Cherry Cola]

I agree with others about the 2 guys falling for Kate instantly is kinda weird.  She is very pretty.  Yes.  No doubt.  I did think things may be different for Horse guy, because if he works there, he sees bigger people all the time, so maybe he appreciates bigger ladies more.  I don't know.  I did love that he said Kate was sexy as hell.  Yes. You can be fat and sexy.  That was nice to hear.  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

15 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

That's the same way she acted at the Weight Watchers meeting, too. 

I remember Kate being pretty serious about Weight Watchers.  She was however annoyed with that one woman who was the only thin one in the group.  I'm sure the thin woman had valid issues but she annoyed me as well.  She needed to find another group and let that group be for overweight people.

Jack could have had life insurance as well, and Kate could have inherited some of it.  If not, I'm sure either of her brothers would help her out.  

I would have liked to see her at her job more, though.  They really dropped that story line quickly.

[Amy88888]

I've been to a memorial service where cremains (sorry, I hate that word too) were buried. So that actually happens.

[MsJamieDornan]

15 hours ago, sasha206 said:

The writers are *really* pushing it with the men who take one look at Kate and instantly fall in lust/love.

Yes,,,,,that's not really believable.

[Negritude]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:06 PM, elle said:

Run away, Kate, run away!  That horse guy is creepy!

 

Agreed!

I had to look up when "Vogue" was released, because I thought it seemed out of place with the gloves and the tulle.  It was in 1990, about 5 years earlier than I guessed.  

They got the year right, it was the look that was off. The girls were sporting "Like A Virgin" era Madonna gear. Vogue was more slicked back hair and suits.

[Mrs. DuRona]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I took HorseGuy as being predatory, and that he was picking up on Kate's insecurity and social/emotional discomfort being at the retreat, and in his head he was thinking she MUST be an easy target because she's the fattest person there and he assumes she has crap self-esteem.

THIS.  He is not really into her, he's into the easy (in his mind) conquest.  Toby, I kind of get.  He not only saw that she was pretty (which, damn she is), but she laughed at his twisted sense of humor.  He saw potential there, and behaved like he assumed women want men to (from what he'd seen in RomComs).  But yeah, horseface is just after the easy target.

[Mrs. DuRona]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

 I've worn my hair the same for decades, pretty much, too, and so have my 3 sisters.   In defense of Rebecca's feathered-ish 1990 style, I guess.

My 4th grade teacher (in the mid-80s) still had her 60s beehive hairdo.  For some people, they stick with what works.