S05.E09: What We Leave Behind

[Morrigan2575]

Oh and I liked the Curtis/Felicity scene. There was a lot of setup for Curtis in this episode. However, there was also subtle hints of Felicity being setup for a 5B storyline. I'm thinking either taking PT back or Smoak Tech. There was the "start up" cover story and then the look on Felicity's face during the discussion. Particularly at the "be true to who I am" part.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

But Oliver is blaming himself, which is even worse. Maybe conflict is not the right word. An issue? Seems too light. Whatever it is it feels like it could lead to some emotional moments/revelations later on. But maybe not. Who knows? It could easily be dropped by next episode. It'll be 2 months so Felicity will be back to her jolly self, no PTSD, no crying, won't even remember her boyfriend. Billy who?

Oliver is blaming himself but IMO he'll realize that's faulty reasoning. I might take him a little while. Hanging out with the stupid reporter won't help him though. It's just so horribly contrived and throws away any character growth Oliver has had.  So stupid

[BkWurm1]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

She continues to be pointless

More thoughts, I liked the S1 Flashback episode even though it was  odd to see another Red Pen scene. However, pretty sure it was deliberately done to have Oliver down on bended knee and no that's not a shipper tease. 

I did love that Felicty put the blame on Prometheus instead of Oliver. I doubt there will be much anger between them. I see more guilt/sorrow on Oliver's part of Felicity being upset with herself.

Oh!  Thank you for pointing that out!  I didn't pick up on the imagery but with this director, it matters.  

 

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh and I liked the Curtis/Felicity scene. There was a lot of setup for Curtis in this episode. However, there was also subtle hints of Felicity being setup for a 5B storyline. I'm thinking either taking PT back or Smoak Tech. There was the "start up" cover story and then the look on Felicity's face during the discussion. Particularly at the "be true to who I am" part.

Yeah, I got that impression too.  To the point that I was expecting her to have some kind of revelation in the episode but I guess they had to get the dead boyfriend out of the way first.  

I liked the loft scene where Mayo tells her all about what he's found and she's like, yeah, yeah, been there, done that, got the ashes.  She looked kind of bored by him even trying to keep up.  

[ketose]

I get the feeling that the Prometheus story is trying to reinforce the past 3 seasons of (sort of) no killing being the right idea. For one thing, pretty much everyone is tired of this idea of not killing villains just so they can come back and wreck havoc again. Also, Clayborne needed killing about as much as any bad guy from S1. He started an epidemic to jack up drug prices. In theory, I like the idea of the loved one of collateral damage being the person to take down an anti-hero. I just don't need this Joker / Lex Luthor level of complexity to do it.

[Lantern7]

BILLY! DON'T BE A HER- . . . fuck. Too late. Did he ever wear a red shirt? He totally should have.

Damn, now I miss the Bratva flashbacks. Great to see Oliver in his thrillkill days, but that was painful. It would be fitting if this was the last season, because things have gone full circle. Doesn't seem right that Smallville got ten seasons, but maybe Arrow should go out on top.

Hurt Curtis is not my favorite Curtis. And he didn't even tell Paul about wearing the T on his face. Or gelling that awesome hair.

Rory, you're supposed to be the brain of the newbs. Flashpoint doesn't solve anything. Got a good laugh at the thought of Diggle with four more kids. BTW, did anybody else think the baby was Sara?

Damn it, do Lances stay dead? Ever?!? Yeah, I'm thinking thus is Black Siren. Still annoyed, though.

ETA: First words from Oliver after the break? "Fucking Barry, why do you do this shit to me?!?" I know, Flashpoint changes are only detected by those who change time. Still would be funny, though.

[SmallScreenDiva]

16 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

More thoughts, I liked the S1 Flashback episode even though it was  odd to see another Red Pen scene. However, pretty sure it was deliberately done to have Oliver down on bended knee and no that's not a shipper tease. 

You think it's foreshadowing? I may be a little too pissed to see anything clearly at this point.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

You think it's foreshadowing? I may be a little too pissed to see anything clearly at this point.

Oh it's clearly foreshadowing. Like the biggest ass anvil ever. 

[way2interested]

After actually watching, I thought it was a lot better than I expected. I don't think it was as good as 309 or 409, but I actually liked a lot of it (strangely enough the Curtis/Paul stuff, the flashbacks, how weirdly elaborate and detail-oriented Prometheus is, the "twists"). I was disappointed with a few things, basically anything related to the reporter, but everything else went by alright for me. 

Kind of bummed though that it seems like Prometheus is just some tacked-on s1 character but I'm guessing we're going to get more on him, since Oliver was mentioning that he must have gotten the same training from 

Spoiler

Talia?

And since we haven't actually seen his face yet.

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

You think it's foreshadowing? I may be a little too pissed to see anything clearly at this point.

I think it's a reminder and hint for the fans. They were always going to put them back together and believe it or not they seem to be back on track(ish). They didn't have Felicity blame Oliver in order to create angst and keep them apart to May. They didn't have either Felicty or Oliver say I love you to either Temp LI. Felicity could barely call Billy her boyfriend and, Oliver pulled a wham, bam, thank you man on the reporter. Plus, she's shady as hell and they deliberately panned to the Russian Vodka, hint hint.

So yeah, I still think 513-515 reunion

Edited December 8, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[thuganomics85]

So, of the two obvious paths to take with Billy (evil or dead), they took the second option!  At least his death was kind of interesting, with Prometheus really rubbing salt in the wound, by setting it up to have Oliver be the one who do it, without meaning to.  That's cold, Prometheus! And I'm glad Oliver went ahead and told the truth about it (really thought he would hide his involvement), and even Felicity doesn't seem to blame him, but rightfully Prometheus.  Of course, the episode had to undercut all that by having the majority of the team comforting Oliver instead of Felicity (Thea was the only one, so yay, Thea!), and then Oliver just goes off and finds "comfort" with the reporter.  Classy, Oliver.  I do think there was a reason the camera focused on her pouring that drink, so I wonder if she was drugging him or something else was going down.

Team also finds out about Evelyn, and basically here entire reason really was because of the whole killing thing from Oliver's past, and I guess that is wrong to her, so he teams up with...... another killer?  Not seeing the logic, here.  I would have preferred if this was some kind of long con and she had always been Team Prometheus.  Eh, whatever.

Curtis gets injured, but even worse, Paul finds out about it and leaves because he can handle always fearing that his husband will die.  Better then I expected.  When Prometheus popped up, I was preparing for him to kill Paul.

Diggle has been set-up and arrested again.  Hopefully, they'll wrap up this particular plot soon.

I didn't notice it the first few times, but Prometheus' voice really sounds like Michael Dorn/Worf from Star Trek.  But, instead, they think he's actually the son of one of Oliver's victims during the "Hood" days.  We'll see.  I did enjoy the flashbacks and the return to a more murdery Oliver and Diggle trying to be his voice of reason/conscience.  And back when Oliver and Felicity barely knew each other, and she was awkwardly putting her foot in her mouth around him.

But, hey, Laurel's back!  I think.  I'm guessing she's either the Black Siren or a hallucination of some kind.  If not, then maybe Flashpoint somehow change that thing.  If so, thanks a lot, Barry [/sarcasm]  

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

Oh it's clearly foreshadowing. Like the biggest ass anvil ever. 

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Oh it's clearly foreshadowing. Like the biggest ass anvil ever. 

Absolutely 

@way2interested - your guess is correct 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 I may be a little too pissed to see anything clearly at this point.

I'm sitting here trying to figure out why I wasn't upset about the ending and then I remembered because I fast forwarded too far for one horrible long second all I saw in the bunker were Dig and the noobs and I thought Felicity wasn't even going to be there and that she'd find out off screen.  And then I was afraid that Oliver was going to lie and try to cover what happened up.  

So that he stuck to his promise and didn't lie to her and that we DID get to see Felicity's reaction (and I think it was good and appropriate) and that then she didn't irrationally blame Oliver, well I was and am still so relieved over that that even though I desperately wanted a scene where Oliver comforted her, I'm ok it didn't happen and the more I think on it, I don't want Oliver drying her tears over Billy.  Nope, just nope.  

[HighHopes]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think it's a reminder and hint for the fans. They were always going to put them back together and believe it or not they seem to be back on track(ish). They didn't have Felicity blame Oliver in order to great angst and keep them apart to May. They didn't have either Felicty or Oliver say I love you to either Temp LI. Felicity could barely call Billy her boyfriend and Oliver pulled a wham, bam, thank you man on the reporter. Plus, she's shady as hell and they deliberately panned to the Russian Vodka, hint hint.

So yeah, I still think 513-515 reunion

I'm not sure how it can be a reminder for the fans that they intended to always put them together when the scene was filmed after they put them together? Filming a s1 flashback scene in season five and adding it in isn't proof of their s1 plans imo. 

[lemotomato]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

More thoughts, I liked the S1 Flashback episode even though it was  odd to see another Red Pen scene. However, pretty sure it was deliberately done to have Oliver down on bended knee and no that's not a shipper tease.

I think it meant something, but I think it was a call-back, not foreshadowing. Something acknowledging that Oliver and Felicity were a couple and had a history. MG mentioned that there were season 1 flashbacks he wanted to include in the 100th episode, but they wouldn't fit. That could have been it.

I wanted to believe more than anyone that it would mean something in the present, but with how the rest of the episode went, I don't see how it could happen in the near future. Maybe eventually.

Edit: Still not sure when they'll get back together, but I do agree it was a reminder/hint that they're not over for good.

Edited December 8, 2016 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I didn't notice it the first few times, but Prometheus' voice really sounds like Michael Dorn/Worf from Star Trek.  But, instead, they think he's actually the son of one of Oliver's victims during the "Hood" days.  We'll see.

Holy Shit! You're right ,  that was Michael Dorn's voice. I kept saying it sounded familiar. 

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

 I do think there was a reason the camera focused on her pouring that drink, so I wonder if she was drugging him or something else was going down.

I'm pretty sure it was the bottle of Russian vodka, not the drink she was pouring that the camera was trying to highlight.  

[Chaser]

Was it really Worf speaking? I thought it sounded like him in the preview but I didn't think they actually got him.

[way2interested]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

So that he stuck to his promise and didn't lie to her and that we DID get to see Felicity's reaction (and I think it was good and appropriate) and that then she didn't irrationally blame Oliver, well I was and am still so relieved over that that even though I desperately wanted a scene where Oliver comforted her, I'm ok it didn't happen and the more I think on it, I don't want Oliver drying her tears over Billy.  Nope, just nope.  

Yeah, and even further, Oliver was pretty shell-shocked and emotional about it as well. I know that it was probably more towards the fact that he killed an innocent person and that Prometheus tricked him, but the fact that he spoke it to Felicity directly (even though everyone else was there) and he could barely get it out made me think that he was also hurting some for her sake as well, especially since he promised that he would save him. I know some people got annoyed at them comforting Oliver, but idk I was fine with the scene.

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not sure how it can be a reminder for the fans that they intended to always put them together when the scene was filmed after they put them together? Filming a s1 flashback scene in season five and adding it in isn't proof of their s1 plans imo. 

Not always intended from season one, but I think they meant always intended to put them back after the break up.

Oliver on bended knee is a call back to last year's MSF but the line about magic makes me inclined to think it's not just a shout out to the past.  

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Was it really Worf speaking? I thought it sounded like him in the preview but I didn't think they actually got him.

I don't know if it was but it really sounded like him.

[Hiveminder]

I don't have a problem with how all the comforting worked out except that I wish they had shown Thea with Felicity at the end instead of her being alone. Missed opportunity to show them being friends instead of just telling us they talk to each other. 

Also, I personally think it would have been kind of inappropriate a little tacky to have Oliver comfort Felicity over the death of her rebound who he accidentally killed  

Maybe I'll change my mind after I've had some time to think about it, but the Olicity flashback left me kind of cold. It's a shame because I think if they'd handled this entire relationship better I would have gotten the warm fuzzy feels from it. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Hiveminder

[Trisha]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think it's a reminder and hint for the fans. They were always going to put them back together and believe it or not they seem to be back on track(ish). They didn't have Felicity blame Oliver in order to great angst and keep them apart to May. They didn't have either Felicty or Oliver say I love you to either Temp LI. Felicity could barely call Billy her boyfriend and Oliver pulled a wham, bam, thank you man on the reporter. Plus, she's shady as hell and they deliberately panned to the Russian Vodka, hint hint.

So yeah, I still think 513-515 reunion

You're more hopeful than I am. I don't think it was foreshadowing as much as shipper baiting. As sweet as the flashback was, it was all about S1 Olicity, not S5.  We got zero hopeful scenes in the present. Not even a crumb. And Felicity looked so wrecked I can't imagine she can even think about romance in the next 4-5 episodes, even if she wasn't truly in love with Billy. Maybe they'll reunite at the end of this season, but will we even care by then? 

I seriously think people are going to look back at this season and marvel at why a show was so determined to alienate a huge portion of their fanbase - and how they managed to do it in so few episodes. This extreme hard pivot away from the relationships and characterizations fans loved should be taught as 'what not to do' in screenwriting courses. 

[Chaser]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't know if it was but it really sounded like him.

I googled it and all I got where a bunch of articles mentioning Prometheus sounding like Worf.

[Morrigan2575]

I went to check the end credits but, my DVR cut it off ?

[Trini]

Black Siren - evil, alternate dimension Laurel - really has nothing to do with Oliver, or Arrow, so I think 'Laurel' in the lair is most likely a hallucination like Shado in Season 2.

[tennisgurl]

Does this mean Prometheus will take off his hood and give everyone a two hour lecture about honor? I would watch the hell out of Worf vs. Oliver. 

Billie died as he lived, pointlessly to create angst for the main characters. 

Evelyn decides that Oliver needs to be stopped because he used to kill bad guys, and has long since stopped for the most part, so she starts working for a guy who kills innocent people, and shows no sign of stopping? Girl...you need to rethink some things. 

And then Laurel returns! The cat came back, the very next day...look, I was never a Laurel fan (my Laurel journey was mild dislike, to extreme dislike, to indifference, to positive leaning indifference) but I really hated how she was killed off, dying as a helpless victim to cause angst for her family and friends, and saying how she was still in love with her ex boyfriend while dying. She did deserve better. That being said, I haven't really missed her, and bringing her back now just seems cheap. We`ll see. I`m sure shes from a guilt hallucination or something.

Edited December 8, 2016 by tennisgurl

[benteen]

That was a great episode.  Though Laurel showing up at the end…ugh.

I loved the return of Season 1 Arrow via flashback.  That was a very welcome creative decision.  The fight on the escalators was pretty damn cool too.

I actually loved the Team Arrow Christmas party.  Or Holiday party since Rory was there.  Oliver’s Christmas party wasn’t bad.  I just like Christmas on all the Arrowverse shows.

Not feeling it for Evelyn whatsoever.  Oliver is a killer, so team up with another killer.  Just say you’re doing it because of your parents…at least that makes more sense than this.

Prometheus plan is pretty much Slade Wilson's plan.

Strong episode for Curtis and even Paul.

Sorry, don’t care about Billy.  I knew that was how it was going to end for him.  I’m just glad everyone isn’t blaming Oliver for this.  That scene was good too.

I do appreciate the continued references to the alien invasion.

That has to be Michael Dorn’s voice as Prometheus.  It sounds just like him.  It’s ironic because Tony Todd, who played Dorn’s brother on Star Trek, was the voice of Zoom on The Flash last year.

Edited December 8, 2016 by benteen

[Lantern7]

"Oliver Queen, I object! I am not a merry man!!!" That's all I got.

[Lady Calypso]

Why does Diggle get the responsibility of babysitting three kids and Rory? Poor guy. Plus, I really do miss Sara, and I guess Diggle got over the revelation of baby Sara pretty quickly.

So, Curtis finally tells Paul about him working with the Green Arrow. Paul is rightfully pissed. I'm ok with him giving an ultimatum not just because I hate vigilante out on the field Curtis, but also because I can see that Paul doesn't want to handle the stress of worrying about Curtis' safety, especially with him being in the hospital. And once he gave the ultimatum, I knew that Curtis could easily compromise by promising to stay behind and do the tech stuff with Felicity behind the scenes. He'd still be working with GA and helping to make the city better, but he'd at least be safer than out on the field. 

I'm hoping that the Prometheus reveal is a red herring. It'll be boring if it's Rando Guy. I also would have preferred if Prometheus had tied and gagged Rayporter instead. Tiny Hands was in...what? Fifteen minutes of the season total? Is that supposed to be enough to care for the guy and his death, especially when he did almost nothing and brought nothing to the show except for giving Felicity a moment to be sad? They did a poor job at establishing Tiny Hand's importance. Just because he was the boyfriend of a fan favourite character, it doesn't mean the showrunners shouldn't try to have made him likable for the audience. 

I would have preferred angst of Oliver killing his almost girlfriend. But with Tiny Hands dying instead, we don't even see Oliver/Felicity scenes and I'm not sure we will. She'll forgive him, maybe bring it up during an argument or fight that they have later on down the road, and then everything will be just fine. And we also get Oliver sleeping with Rayporter so....great? Except she might not even stick around (hopefully) so it's an in and out situation all because he's upset. I don't think anyone cares about Oliver being with any woman not named Felicity Smoak (or, for others, Laurel Lance).

And nobody except for Thea actually comforted Felicity over her loss. 

Speaking of Olicity scenes, I did enjoy the flashback scene to them. I guess MG really did want that red pen scene. It took me a bit to separate this scene from a regular scene from this season, but I could see S1 Felicity/Oliver. A little bit of a shipper tease, in my opinion, but SA and EBR still made it work. I don't trust this to be foreshadowing. If it ends up happening next season with them getting back together and a proposal or something, I might chalk it up to unintentional foreshadowing, because I don't think they're planning for that at this time.

I see that Thea is not-so-officially back on the team. Oh! TOMMY MENTION!! Man, I wish Chicago Med was cancelled so that Tommy could be Prometheus. I love Colin Donnell on Chicago Med, but I'd kill for him to be back on this show. 

I think they are trying to reiterate that Oliver needs a team and can't be the Hood like he used to be. Rory's great. Wild Dog didn't annoy, but I still don't like him, and Rick Gonzalez is a pretty bad actor. He just...growls a lot, or something. It's weird. 

Yeah, great shocking cliffhanger, show. Except it's not. It might please the Laurel fans for a month and a half, but not everyone else. This Laurel is either Black Siren or a hallucination. Probably BS. She probably escaped from The Flash and came to Oliver for something. I just see the Laurel fans getting excited that she'll be back, she'll turn good, become BC, and marry "Ollie". Except none of that will happen because it's just the show toying with a certain fanbase, getting their hopes up, and then saying "PSYCH, IDIOTS" as they casually stab the fanbase in the back and then in the front. These showrunners always gotta make some fanbase hopeful and then pissed off. I don't even like Laurel or KC, but I can only imagine how pissed they'll be if it's just BS and she's killed off again or sent to another earth. Then, next season, a whole new Laurel Lance will show up and start the cycle again.

And if Laurel, for some reason, is alive or this Laurel sticks around, then everything the past season will have been for nothing, much like Sara's death in season 3. Quentin might as well just have his heart attack now because poor guy is getting his heart torn apart and put back together every single season. So it just makes other fans pissed off for all the lying. The show can only pull so many "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scenarios before they're not trusted anymore. They keep alienating the fanbases, no matter which part of the fanbase. The general audience is going to figure it out sooner or later, right? 

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

"Oliver Queen, I object! I am not a merry man!!!" That's all I got.

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!  Soo many points for this.  

[apinknightmare]

Seriously though - what happened to Evelyn?! Is she still alive or what?

Edited December 8, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Seriously though - what happened to Evelyn?! Is she still alive or what?

So she basically got the Ted Grant treatment?

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Seriously though - what happened to Evelyn?! Is she still alive or what?

When Prometheus was sort of cornered, she showed up with Wild Dog as Oliver's "back up" and instead shot WD's guns out of his hands.  Oliver then says her name instead of a code name (sigh, even if she is evil) she monologues a bit and then shoots another arrow at the ground that explodes and she and Prometheus escape.  Not seen again, but presumed alive.  

Edited December 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Mrs. de Winter]

27 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Oliver on bended knee is a call back to last year's MSF but the line about magic makes me inclined to think it's not just a shout out to the past.

I still have no idea what the magic line is about (which given these writers does not surprise me too much).  I just assumed they edited something that makes that line make sense (perhaps along with a scene of someone comforting Felicity).  Plus after last year don't we already know Oliver believes in magic?  So why do I care?

How many times can I feel sorry for Oliver when he makes the same stupid mistake over and over and over again?  I think I have hit my limit and really think at this point the only reason I remotely "like" Oliver is because Dig and Felicity do.  Although I am starting to think they are both suffering from some sort of mental issue given that they keep supporting mister "I didn't have anywhere else to go" or whatever his sob story was for his new - whatever she is.

The Dig story line is the only thing that makes me interested in coming back next year.  Still love Felicity but I have no hope she will have any real story.  Still don't care about LL in any way, shape or form.  If that was SA's "10" on the surprise meter he needs to re-calibrate because a Lance coming back from the "dead" is hardly shocking anymore.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

When Prometheus was sort of cornered, she showed up with Wild Dog as Oliver's "back up" and instead shot WD's guns out of his hands.  Oliver then says her name instead of a code name (sigh, even if she is evil) she monologues a bit and then shoots another arrow at the ground that explodes and she and Prometheus escape.  Not seen again, but presumed alive.  

Okay, I remembered this, but didn't recall seeing her again - but do recall

Spoiler

the actor who plays Wild Dog commenting on one of her Insta posts that they missed her.

So I guess she did get the Ted Grant treatment, @Primal Slayer.

[statsgirl]

I don't get this show. How can I not hate Oliver?  He's so sad that he killed Felicity's boyfriend that he goes off to bang the reporter to feel better and everyone leaves Felicity to cry alone.  It's Roy getting electrocuted and left in the puddle all over agian.

I'm so angry at this show that I don't even care if they give Felicity a start-up in 5B because it will be like Havenrock, just a sop while they concentrate on the real heroes, the men.

I don't think Prometheus was trained by the same people Oliver was.  I'm with Diggle, he watched so many videos of the Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow he learned all Oliver's moves.

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I enjoyed the twist of Oliver killing Felicity's boyfriend in an actual accident and hate myself for not seeing the "ductaped weapon with a speaker" plot until he died. I did love how they all stood by Oliver after the reveal.

The problem was that no one stood by Felicity.  It negates all the warm fuzzies they got for standing by Oliver.

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did a Felicity even get to react to Oliver killing Mayo???

She said it wasn't Oliver's fault, it's all on Prometheus.  So even though she absolved him, he still felt so bad he needed to bang the reporter while she cried alone.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't disagree that Oliver needed comfort and I honestly think in that moment, he was more traumatized, but Felicity is going to suffer guilt for this as well.  She was alone I'm sure because she wanted to be. And we at least got the cut to her crying when Oliver was talking about hurting the ones he loved.  

Evelyn was the worst.  I get she's was against Oliver but she wanted to have ALL of the team taken down but then she gives Dig, Rory and the Dong Xmas stocking to hang because they were the closest thing she had to family?  Cold.  Very cold.

The Flashback Olicity scene was pretty random as was the focus on another red pen.  It was a nice scene...for season one.  Not sure what the lines about believing in magic were supposed to mean.  Am I missing something?  Are they setting something up?

"Laurel" in the bunker was just weird.  

Laurel in the bunker for the MSF (which I thought would happen because not cliff-hanger enough) l think shows how much they are backtracking on having killed her.  All the social media, from MG to David Ramsey to Stephen Amell are now about how important she is to the show.

I think the lines about magic were supposed to make us thing that Oliver/Felicity is magic.  Too bad so much of the episode negated that.  Oliver's behaviour after killing Billy wrt Felicity was just the worst.  It's all about his pain, not hers.  All about how he feels, and now he can't be with her for the rest of the season because he feels so guilty.  (I know they're going to just brush off Felicity's grief.)

Evelyn was very cold. Psychopath cold.

 

54 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Rory, you're supposed to be the brain of the newbs. Flashpoint doesn't solve anything. Got a good laugh at the thought of Diggle with four more kids. BTW, did anybody else think the baby was Sara?

I shouted "Baby Sara" when I saw that picture, and had hopes that we'd get a Flashpoint twist.  No such luck, it was all predictable. But who keeps their own baby picture in their desk?

39 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not sure how it can be a reminder for the fans that they intended to always put them together when the scene was filmed after they put them together? Filming a s1 flashback scene in season five and adding it in isn't proof of their s1 plans imo. 

It's a reminder that they will put them together in the end. But who will care by then?  They'll have alienated the Olicity fans long before the last episode.

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Seriously though - what happened to Evelyn?! Is she still alive or what?

I assume that she'll be back later in the season only to get killed off or something. I assume Prometheus is going to keep her alive to be a decoy for whatever big plan he has for the end of the season. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I assume that she'll be back later in the season only to get killed off or something

Did the show decide she is legal?  I mean she betrayed and is out to get Oliver (and people he claims to care about) - so shouldn't he be sleeping with her soon? 

[insomniadreams88]

Sorry, if I missed this in any other comments, but do we think that Prometheus went after Curtis specifically when he was with Paul because Evelyn told him that Curtis hadn't told his husband in order to break up the marriage and cause him more pain?

[foreverevolving]

So due to life I haven't watched an Arrow episode since 504 (I think) but I watched last week crossover - which was not too bad (but man that group fight scene was just bad! you could so tell it was the stunt people).

anyway, I watched today's episode and realized that... drum rolls!!! -- i'm officially in "I don't care" land. I literally felt nothing, okay so I felt something: disinterest. there were some good parts here and there, but most of the episode was just bad. And what the hell is it with those slow motion stunts?!!

also, i'm sorry but that Olicity flashback scene was just bad, it really was. it just felt off, neither Emily nor Stephen came across like S1 Oliver and Felicity, it felt like season 5 Oliver and Felicity trying to be s1 Oliver and Felicity. And Oliver giving full on heart "i'm inlove with you" eyes to Felicity in the flashback just felt odd because it is too early, even on accident. Yes, she made him smile, he liked her and found her amusing as well as interesting, but it was never like that in that stage of S01. Way off mark for where the characters were in that point of the show.

 

So yea, I think i'm finally dropping the show. I just... don't think I care as I used to, everything this season is just.. well it's just one big "blah".

[Lantern7]

What was the point of Thea in the costume? I know that all Team Arrow hands had to be on deck. But the last time she got in that outfit, she got mind-whammied by aliens and forced to fight her friends. She came out of it, probably thankful she didn't murder anybody this time, and then she gets whisked off to the Dominmatrix, where she lives out her ideal life with her parents still alive. And I'm 85 percent certain that she was going to keep her word about staying in there, but she looked down to find she wasn't dressed as a bridesmaid anymore. "*sigh* Fuck, fine, I'll kill my biological father cameoing this week." By the way, do you think Thea still apologizes to Sara any time they meet up?

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 

I shouted "Baby Sara" when I saw that picture, and had hopes that we'd get a Flashpoint twist.  No such luck, it was all predictable. But who keeps their own baby picture in their desk?

It's a reminder that they will put them together in the end. But who will care by then?  They'll have alienated the Olicity fans long before the last episode.

I think it was a box of mementos about his origin.  (Boo to Team Arrow for not looking in a drawer.  Who scrapes up ashes but over looks a locked box?)

What I wanted to know was why Billy was so excited by the picture.  How about what clearly looked like a folded up birth certificate?  That's what I would be interested in.  

Quote

 

I don't get this show. How can I not hate Oliver?  He's so sad that he killed Felicity's boyfriend that he goes off to bang the reporter to feel better and everyone leaves Felicity to cry alone.  It's Roy getting electrocuted and left in the puddle all over agian.

...

The problem was that no one stood by Felicity.  It negates all the warm fuzzies they got for standing by Oliver.

She said it wasn't Oliver's fault, it's all on Prometheus.  So even though she absolved him, he still felt so bad he needed to bang the reporter while she cried alone.

....

 

Question...what should Oliver have done?  What would have been a good ending for him?  I personally wouldn't be happy with Oliver comforting Felicity and I also don't want her so distraught that everyone has to keep watch over her and I also wouldn't buy that she wouldn't morn him.  And I also wouldn't have been thrilled if the show was still focused on Oliver talking to one of the other team members while Felicity is off alone even if I believe she probably wants to be alone.  

I just don't think other than them cutting to both Felicity and Oliver being alone (and then "Laurel" walking in) there were any good options but since Rayporter still has an arc to deal with, they really aren't ready to create those kind of parallels with Olicity.  They "need" Oliver to sleep with Susan to show he is getting close to her so that her sudden yet inevitable betrayal (even if it's minor and she redeems herself) bums him out.  So yeah, plot crap.    

It's also a stall because him pining while Felicity morns isn't a a good look.

 Susan is so very not important.  I can't help but see her as the equivalent of jacking off to relieve some stress.  It was a release that furthered a plot point.  

So I guess that's why I'm not mad at Oliver .... for this.  Left over anger from last season still abounds.  

And I get how bad it looks that the show panned off of everyone comforting Oliver to later Felicity crying alone but the scene of the team standing with Oliver wasn't them standing against Felicity.  Really, she was the first to stand with him when she shed a few tears and then firmly put the blame on Prometheus.  

Again, i really wish they'd held the scene just a bit longer to show them all next going to support Felicity  but I don't think the lack of that scene was an intended slight.  Just a scene left off screen, one that I feel is assumed.  And in that scene, it probably was really awkward for Oliver to be there while Felicity was getting comfort from Thea and I assume Curtis (edited: or not since oops, he wasn't there) and Dig and even Rory while he doesn't feel he can give any comfort of his own (or that it would be welcome or appropriate), so he leaves and ends up looking for a drink and a fix.  He's just dumb enough that I don't think he sees anything wrong with him and Susie reporter.  And maybe he thinks cheap hook ups with the wrong gal is all he deserves.  

Edited December 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

What was the point of Thea in the costume? I know that all Team Arrow hands had to be on deck. But the last time she got in that outfit, she got mind-whammied by aliens and forced to fight her friends. She came out of it, probably thankful she didn't murder anybody this time, and then she gets whisked off to the Dominmatrix, where she lives out her ideal life with her parents still alive. And I'm 85 percent certain that she was going to keep her word about staying in there, but she looked down to find she wasn't dressed as a bridesmaid anymore. "*sigh* Fuck, fine, I'll kill my biological father cameoing this week." By the way, do you think Thea still apologizes to Sara any time they meet up?

Also, did the Waverider just print out copies of their suits cause I really doubt the Dominators expressed them back to Star City after being done playing dress up with Ray, Oliver, Sara and Thea.  

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, foreverevolving said:

also, i'm sorry but that Olicity flashback scene was just bad, it really was. it just felt off, neither Emily nor Stephen came across like S1 Oliver and Felicity, it felt like season 5 Oliver and Felicity trying to be s1 Oliver and Felicity. And Oliver giving full on heart "i'm inlove with you" eyes to Felicity in the flashback just felt odd because it is too early, even on accident. Yes, she made him smile, he liked her and found her amusing as well as interesting, but it was never like that in that stage of S01. Way off mark for where the characters were in that point of the show.

IDK about that... 

[Sunshine]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Also, did the Waverider just print out copies of their suits cause I really doubt the Dominators expressed them back to Star City after being done playing dress up with Ray, Oliver, Sara and Thea.  

Pretty much.  Nick Zano's character said Gideon could make/replicate them.

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK about that... 

I was amazed that they nailed that dynamic again. I was kind of impressed.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I was amazed that they nailed that dynamic again. I was kind of impressed.

It goes to show just how far they've come in their relationship... Even though they've taken about 50 steps back this season, they've still evolved a lot. 

[statsgirl]

The thing about season 1 Oliver is that he thought Felicity was amusing with her babble.  He didn't think of her in a 'heart eyes' way at all and MG trying to push that to appease shippers in s5 is a massive fail.

We had a ton of "Felicity is ambivalent about Billy" clues in the first scene (needs 3 glasses of champagne to deal with introducing him to her friends, can't say "my boyfriend", can't say "I love you" to him) plus her dismissal of him in the loft (good to know she can still live there with Iris and Barry). But  the fact that she didn't and doesn't love Mayo doesn't matter at all because it's going to be all Oliver's guilt keeping her distant from him.

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

I seriously think people are going to look back at this season and marvel at why a show was so determined to alienate a huge portion of their fanbase - and how they managed to do it in so few episodes. This extreme hard pivot away from the relationships and characterizations fans loved should be taught as 'what not to do' in screenwriting courses. 

This can't be stated enough.  What they're doing is totally idiotic.  Plus they're really playing to the Laurel and Lauriver fans now and just going to end up really pissing off both fanbases.

47 minutes ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

The Dig story line is the only thing that makes me interested in coming back next year.  Still love Felicity but I have no hope she will have any real story.  Still don't care about LL in any way, shape or form.  If that was SA's "10" on the surprise meter he needs to re-calibrate because a Lance coming back from the "dead" is hardly shocking anymore.

I think the Diggle story will be wrapped up in the next episode. They've captured him, the President will pardon him since he saved the world from aliens and it's done.

Right now, a Lance coming back from the dead is SOP on this show.

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Question...what should Oliver have done?  What would have been a good ending for him?  I personally wouldn't be happy with Oliver comforting Felicity and I also don't want her so distraught that everyone has to keep watch over her and I also wouldn't buy that she wouldn't morn him.  And I also wouldn't have been thrilled if the show was still focused on Oliver talking to one of the other team members while Felicity is off alone even if I believe she probably wants to be alone.  

I just don't think other than them cutting to both Felicity and Oliver being alone (and then "Laurel" walking in) there were any good options but since Rayporter still has an arc to deal with, they really aren't ready to create those kind of parallels with Olicity.  They "need" Oliver to sleep with Susan to show he is getting close to her so that her sudden yet inevitable betrayal (even if it's minor and she redeems herself) bums him out.  So yeah, plot crap.    

It's also a stall because him pining while Felicity morns isn't a a good look.

 Susan is so very not important.  I can't help but see her as the equivalent of jacking off to relieve some stress.  It was a release that furthered a plot point.  

So I guess that's why I'm not mad at Oliver .... for this.  Left over anger from last season still abounds.  

And I get how bad it looks that the show panned off of everyone comforting Oliver to later Felicity crying alone but the scene of the team standing with Oliver wasn't them standing against Felicity.  Really, she was the first to stand with him when she shed a few tears and then firmly put the blame on Prometheus.  

Again, i really wish they'd held the scene just a bit longer to show them all next going to support Felicity  but I don't think the lack of that scene was an intended slight.  Just a scene left off screen, one that I feel is assumed.  And in that scene, it probably was really awkward for Oliver to be there while Felicity was getting comfort from Thea and I assume Curtis and Dig and even Rory while he doesn't feel he can give any comfort of his own (or that it would be welcome or appropriate), so he leaves and ends up looking for a drink and a fix.  He's just dumb enough that I don't think he sees anything wrong with him and Susie reporter.  And maybe he thinks cheap hook ups with the wrong gal is all he deserves.  

That's why I said it was like Roy getting electrocuted -- a slip-up that makes the show and its characters look really bad.

Although I think Oliver standing there while Felicity gets comforted would show that he's a good and decent person and ready to face the responsibility for his actions.  It also makes everyone else on the team look like a jerk, especially Diggle, because they thought Oliver was the one who needed comfort, not Felicity. One of the reasons I think Oliver is >>>>> than Barry is because Oliver is a man who doesn't need that kind of pandering to his poor woobie feelings.

I don't think they needed to show him sleeping with Rayporter at all.  We all expected it and I was pleasantly surprised that he hadn't because she's so skeevy and that would make him smart.  Until now.

I hated the selfishness of that move.  He's upset so he goes to the nearest woman he can find to make himself feel better.  It's really All About Oliver instead of Felicity or how the Team is going to react to what Evelyn's done.  I guess he'll let Diggle take care of their feelings.  Oops.

What makes it worse is that Felicity said it wasn't his fault. She could put aside her feelings and empathize with him while he's selfishly fixated on himself.  She deserves so much better than this Oliver.

[catrox14]

Man, this just makes me miss the old Lair, Oliver's old costume, Oliver's recurve bow.  Sigh ....

[anamika]

Yes Laurel!! Welcome back! Heard Arrow is becoming a decently written show again with minimal Olishitty/Felicity nonsense - may have to catch up to early episodes.

 I don't mind Black Siren either. I enjoyed her on the Flash.

Edited December 8, 2016 by anamika