S01.E02: Chestnut

[paigow]

A pair of guests arrive at Westworld with different expectations; Bernard and Theresa Cullen debate about the recent host anomaly; a behavior engineer tweaks the emotions of a madam in Sweetwater's brothel; a cocky programmer pitches a new narrative.

[gatopretoNYC]

This episode is up now, on demand, and on HBO Go!

I watched it, and it was great, but I'm really missing reading the recaps & discussion afterwards.

Just a cast comment:

Spoiler

Lyle the intern!

[Tara Ariano]

4 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

I'm really missing reading the recaps & discussion afterwards.

  Reveal hidden contents

Lyle the intern!

I'm putting up Mark's post right now. Stand by!

[Primetimer]

On the small Ford moment in S01.E02 that encapsulates what Westworld is doing right.

View the full article

[Hanahope]

Heh, are they putting the episode up early because they don't want to compete with the next presidential debate?  I think I'll go watch now.

[ennui]

Thanks for the heads up!

[kokapetl]

Apparently almost everyone is an asshole in the future. 

[BooBear]

I liked it but... it was a very plot heavy episode... whereas the first episode was very world building. I did appreciate that they continued answering questions. Including alluding that they would tell us how people in the game know who is human. The new guy in town was a good way to introduce the POV of the normal person. I am guessing that he will be the character to follow to see how West world can corrupt good people.  It seems like the second in command (Bernard) is reprogramming Dolores but he seems so completely unaware of it in his normal life I wonder if there is some twist like he is a bot that Ford is using without his knowledge or that they made a Bernard bot for the purpose of reprogramming the bots under Ford's control.  

Edited October 8, 2016 by BooBear

[Izeinwinter]

He'd be a very poor conspirator if he dropped hints in his daily routine. I'm not sure if he is the one messing with the droids, or he is just noticing and keeping mum out of straight up professional / intellectual fascination. 

Ran across a brilliant theory on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/569pcm/westworld_1x02_chestnut_episode_discussion/d8id4ru) - the two guests we saw arrive were a flashback to thirty years earlier, and one of them is the man in black, and this is  how we're going to get the origin story. 

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Apparently almost everyone is an asshole in the future. 

Yeah. I don't like the deeply dark direction this has suddenly taken. But the best part is that the story keeps me guessing, so I'm assuming what is obvious is not so obvious with time. Not nearly as good as the pilot, but I think you'd have to go a long way to achieve that initial brilliance.

I thought that if Buffalo Bill was the second oldest host, maybe Delores as the oldest is/was an Annie Oakley sharp shooter? I real Wild West Show that became more elaborate and subtle with time?

Looks like I might have been right about the Man in the Maze Indian lore with a modern electronic twist.

It's going to be hell waiting every week for a new episode.

[ennui]

I like having all these hints of what to look for when I watch the episode.  :)

I look forward to the snake scene; there was a snake in the original film that was significant.

[Miles]

"Oh my god they killed Teddy!" "You Bastards!"

 

I have to say I'm annoyed. So that new black hat guy is bi. That's nice and all, but ofcourse at the sex scene the only man he has in his harem is laying 30cm away from him and only gets to lightly touch him with one hand, while two women are on top of him. Sorry but at that point I'd rather not have him have a man there at all, instead of being reminded how the people in charge have no problem showing wild hetero sex but don't have the balls to show the same between two men.

Other than that it was good I guess... my being annoyed overshadows the rest a bit...

Edited October 8, 2016 by Miles

[stanleyk]

Quote

 Back in the desert, after Ford controls the snake, he then controls the boy. He tells the boy to leave, and the kid immediately complies. The way his head droops and his eyes change, it seems clear that he's a host himself -- a little robot child who wanted a friend.

As soon as the kid showed up in the middle of nowhere with no other people or hosts around, I immediately assumed Ford had created an image of, perhaps, a child of his that had died. Maybe that is way off the mark, but I was sure he was a host from the jump. And when Ford said "only boring people get bored" and the kid said something like "my father always says that, too," I thought that was the indication that this was Ford replacing a child. 

I could have read WAY too much into this thing, but there's so much plot to digest, I don't know what the hell is going on at any given point. But I like it!

[Miles]

13 minutes ago, stanleyk said:

As soon as the kid showed up in the middle of nowhere with no other people or hosts around, I immediately assumed Ford had created an image of, perhaps, a child of his that had died. Maybe that is way off the mark, but I was sure he was a host from the jump. And when Ford said "only boring people get bored" and the kid said something like "my father always says that, too," I thought that was the indication that this was Ford replacing a child.

I thought it was a younger version of himself. Bolstered by the fact that that both their fathers used to say "only boring people get bored", but that Ford didn't subscribe to that philosophy, that he in fact thought that boring people were the ones who didn't get bored because they were to boring to even notice.

[thuganomics85]

Just heard about the early On Demand showing.  I do wonder if this HBO just trying to build momentum or simply a case of them having an excuse, since they know that they're likely could have been a ratings drop this Sunday, airing against the Presidential debate.

I'm starting to think every episode is going to have Teddy get killed in some form or another.  It's almost becoming darkly comical.  Poor Teddy. James Mardsen's characters just can't catch a break, huh?

New players in the mix!  We've got Jimmi Simpson as a new guest, who actually seems kind of decent for once, while Ben Barnes is his not friend (co-worker, I guess?), and just a total dick.  Can't even take him to dinner, without him stabbing a host's hand on the table.  Interesting that Jimmi Simpson's character is making eyes at Dolores.  He told the prostitute earlier that he has someone back at home that he loves, but maybe there is more going on with him?

Clifton Collins Jr. also shows up as a host named Lawrence, who survives a hanging, only to get dragged around my the Man in Black, who apparently is trying to the find the entrance to some kind of maze.  Naturally, The Man in Black pretty much kills all of his family, until his daughter gives it up.  I still have no idea what to make of the character, except that Ed Harris continues to be scary as hell.

Cool seeing Maeve be more in the forefront this time.  All the stuff involving how the workers were treating her was nuts in how methodical and flippant.  Basically, not enough guests are sleeping with her?  Just make her aggressive!  Still doesn't work?  Make her more emotional, instead!  Either way, if she doesn't step it up, she's being decommissioned!  The show is doing a good job at showing how the humans are just treating them like any old electronic.  Even the part when she flips out and escape had moments like the doctors complaining about if they had actually put her in sleep mode or not.

Dolores finds a gun?  Who left it for her?

Ford shutting down Sizemore's story was hilarious, but I suspect there will be consequences.  Wonder what story he is cooking up, right now?  Figured the boy was a host, but I'm sure there is more to the story since he clearly seemed important to Ford.

Bernard and Theresa are in a relationship, I see.

[VCRTracking]

Man everybody's got secrets on this show!

I think the British woman in the beginning has to be a robot.

"That gentleman gets whatever he wants!" Hmmm. Okay then.

Quote

Ran across a brilliant theory on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/569pcm/westworld_1x02_chestnut_episode_discussion/d8id4ru) - the two guests we saw arrive were a flashback to thirty years earlier, and one of them is the man in black, and this is  how we're going to get the origin story. 

I thought they were a nod to the original Westworld. They reminded me of Richard Benjamin and James Brolin's characters.

Quote

Bernard and Theresa are in a relationship, I see.

Which I like, because romances between middle aged characters are more interesting than young ones IMO.

Quote

As soon as the kid showed up in the middle of nowhere with no other people or hosts around, I immediately assumed Ford had created an image of, perhaps, a child of his that had died. Maybe that is way off the mark, but I was sure he was a host from the jump. And when Ford said "only boring people get bored" and the kid said something like "my father always says that, too," I thought that was the indication that this was Ford replacing a child.

Quote

 

I thought it was a younger version of himself. Bolstered by the fact that that both their fathers used to say "only boring people get bored", but that Ford didn't subscribe to that philosophy, that he in fact thought that boring people were the ones who didn't get bored because they were to boring to even notice.

 

I agree that I think it was Ford as a child.

Ford nixing the narrative directors' big "Odyssey" story was great. His speech was very meta.

Edited October 8, 2016 by VCRTracking

[numbnut]

This show is my GoT. (I don't care if it gets fewer seasons. Quality over quantity.) I'm already watching every ep twice. Just as I suspected, Bernard is up to some tricks but the romance was a nice surprise.

Great to see Jimmi Simpson all cleaned up for once. His friend is such a raging asshole. How do people tolerate him IRL? Can't wait to see him killed off. The scriptwriter dude can go too. So shrill and one note. I want him off my screen for good.

I hope we get closer and closer to seeing the real world outside the park with each ep. I love the dream memory moments. The virus theory is interesting. How is it spread? By saying that "violent ends" line? Please let Teddy catch it next so he can avoid getting killed every damn day.

I love Clifton Collins. I was hoping Ed Harris could be a good guy in disguise but he seems to enjoy being a dick. I wonder what he did in the real world for him to decide to never go back.

First Soundgarden, now Radiohead. The player piano knows all my faves.

Edited October 8, 2016 by numbnut

[BooBear]

Something that confused and bothered me. The bots can feel physical pain. When you think of robots you think they won't.  The girl said that Mave was in pain so the creators know that.  I would think that if people knew that it might be a downer on the experience. 

I also thought the boy was Ford as a child.  What tipped it for me was the sort of high brow british accent. 

As for the Reddit theory, I can see it. For me it seemed strange that the entrance to Westworld with the new people seemed very much like the old entrance we saw last week. That was now a storage level. 

[kokapetl]

The child androids were a shock, considering what that implies. 

The lady programmer explicitly states that androids having memories is a bad idea, given what they would remember, and seems to believe that the androids aren't remembering things, yet in the previous episode she discussed the "reveries", which are based on stored memories that have been deleted, but not overwritten. Is she an android? Is this shoddy writing? Is it one of those intentionally confusing things that writers love to tease viewers with?

And why is no one boning James Marsden? How is he not popular?

Edited October 8, 2016 by Kokapetl

[WaltersHair]

If Ford is God and the Man in Black is the devil, then Bernard becomes the sacrifice for all mankind and their sins? (foreshadowing with the cross at the end).

Black and white are obvious colors,but red seems to be represented as well. Maeve wears red, all the blood is red and that screaming Brit's new story has red in the title.

Edited October 8, 2016 by WaltersHair

[dr pepper]

I don't get how killing a robot's mother, extended family, and neighbors causes her to voice a secret plus commentary "it's not for you". That's video game logic.

But i think non communication is the main problem, not evolving AI.

While everyone knows that the big boss, an eccentric genius who might be a little unhinged, wants to give the robots more nuanced personalities, but he won't explain all the details, or how it relates to his grand vision.

The head programmer is interrogating robots in admin mode, but not telling anyone so no one is checking to see how that might itself be effecting their behavior.

Operations isn't telling either tech or management about the disturbing way their premium customer interacts with the robots. They just see him as a reliable source of income who also helps keep their job interesting.

So tech is working on incomplete data.

And management is probably not telling corporate about all the problems.

[Ms.McGregor]

I'm probably reading too much into it, and watch too many tv shows, but to me it felt like the entire end scene with the scriptwriter's "Will make it look like Hieronymus Bosch was painting kittens"/vivisection/self-cannibalism speech then Ford's take-down of it was a meta commentary on George R.R. Martin/GoT.  Which I wholeheartedly endorse.

Meanwhile, I'm 100% Team Ben Barnes and co-signing the annoyance on how the bi-sexuality was handled.  I hope we get further Ben Barnes orgy scenes in future to correct it.

The Reddit theory has me tripping.  Come to think of it, there was something very "retro" about the Westworld Logo on their arrival level that has been nagging at me.

[BooBear]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

And why is no one boning James Marsden? How is he not popular?

Actually that was my annoyance with the first episode. That is was pretty much men using the bots for sex but I can't imagine that women wouldn't too.  Kind of sexist for it not to have one woman there enjoying the man bots. This episode at least had a woman getting flirted with by a woman bot... but still no woman in charge depiction.  

[VCRTracking]

The douchebag guest said in the beginning something about his sister enjoying "riding cowboys" when she visited.

Quote

I don't get how killing a robot's mother, extended family, and neighbors causes her to voice a secret plus commentary "it's not for you". That's video game logic.

That's probably the point.

Favorite comment on the Reddit episode discussion thread:
 

Quote

After the episode, my roommate said "I'd be fine just going to Changingroomworld"

Edited October 8, 2016 by VCRTracking

[numbnut]

5 hours ago, dr pepper said:

I don't get how killing a robot's mother, extended family, and neighbors causes her to voice a secret plus commentary "it's not for you". That's video game logic.

I'm not a gamer so I didn't get it either. It would be nice if it's explained later on.

The milky robot creation bath and the milk pouring out of the robot in ep. 1 remind me of Ash the robot in Alien.

[NutMeg]

Loving this so far, but a few mundane questions: why is his episode called Chestnut? and what was the symbolism of the milk in the pilot, and if it was important why no more milk this episode?

[parandroid]

I'm hopeful. They've now demonstrated the ability to make two good episodes in a row. Maybe, just maybe, they might be able to sustain this for a while. And the script is a thinking person's script. That's what was missing for me from GOT. Lots of action. Lots of plot. Stuff happens. But other than the great production values, there really isn't much meat on the bones. Whereas here, you have a robot quoting Shakespeare in a perfectly apt context. Beyond the great timing and delivery of most familiar and infinitely dissected lines, you also have originals like "Everything in this land is magic. Except  the magicians.".

Magic indeed. Not Ford and his team. But the writers who put together their world. With all the tiny details that make you realize that this is indeed different. Some examples that took my breath away:

• The character (William?) at the beginning asking "How do we get to the park?" and seconds later getting a spectacular answer.
• The Blade Runner-like plot of the robot wanting to meet his maker, and just as in Blade Runner, turning away. But for a completely different motivation. Does Abernathy want to visit violence on his maker(s) because of his (programmed) drive to protect Dolores, his daughter, or is his motivation that of the adolescent that is breaking free from the world and wishes of his parents? Hard to tell at this point.
• "No orientation. No guidebook. Figuring out how it works is half the fun". Indeed. Like Apple, the makers of this world have realized that a technology which requires a guidebook is too technical for who they want to sell to.
• The unintended side effects caused by Maeve's technique of breaking free of nightmares being used when she really is supposed to be asleep. And more importantly, how she came by the technique. Brilliant writing!

While I think there are plot holes (other readers have already asked this: what's the point in bleeding out the card dealer if all you needed was his scalp?), I think the writers have earned enough of my respect for me to close my eyes and trust them at this point.

Edited October 8, 2016 by parandroid
grammar

[ennui]

15 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I thought they were a nod to the original Westworld. They reminded me of Richard Benjamin and James Brolin's characters.

I had the same thought. The guy who's been there before, and the new guy.

8 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

And why is no one boning James Marsden? How is he not popular?

I don't think that's his program. He probably says no.

I was a little confused by Maeve's flashback -- must have been a previous story for her. And her infection causing pain; there must be actual biological elements in the construction of the hosts.

I considered the reddit theory, but I think all of the stories are current, and not flashbacks. I don't think Dolores has been dropping that can of sweetened condensed milk for 30 years, I think she's had different roles. 

Oh, and I think Dolores hid the gun for her future self to find.

Edited October 8, 2016 by ennui

[tenativelyyours]

A strong follow up to the premiere, I thought.  In fact it moved a bit quicker for me than the first episode did.

I do wish they didn't fall back on the use of poor lighting as futuristic atmosphere.  I guess how that a Black President and likely soon a female President can no longer be used as a trope to show us it is not the present, the inability to design proper and efficient lighting is going stay with us for awhile.  Turn some fucking lights on okay?

I like the theory that raised above about the episode having a flashback sequence but I do think Dolores is slightly glitched out that William is the one to enact Teddy's usual can picking up role.  Which I guess can still allow for it to have happened in the past. 

Ben Barnes does reprehensible as interesting.  The character of Sizemore I find too over the top.  The only interest Sizemore as a character I find is whether the writers will do the predictable and give him a gruesome ending when the shit goes down like all good horror and action flicks do with scumbag one dimensional characters.

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a history that goes back even beyond the first Westworld character roles.  Which is why Dolores' father flipped out like he did.  We know they are having past 'lives' bleed over thanks to the new programming quirks.  Maybe some of the older ones go back even farther and have a sense of the real world that is also bleeding through and will be what tips the balance toward self-realization?

If security can keep a tab on the Man in Black as we saw, shouldn't someone be noticing what he is going for by now?  And the girl character spouting the answer he wanted seems odd unless he is carrying out a role Anthony Hopkins' character wants carried out in some way and triggers this new "storyline".

I definitely thought the boy was himself at a younger age that he programmed as a sort of personal avatar/sidekick.

Jeffrey Wright is sexy as fuck.  And so is the least known Hemsworth brother.  He may be the shortest but I find it odd how much his brothers always got raved over with some really heavy bland features and then along he comes!  Whew.

I do think in the not too distance future this is supposed to be, Teddy would be getting the giddy up go by male and female guests and I would think would adjust to meet the guests needs.  His story code might not make him the aggressor but he would adjust and comply to make a guest happy if their wants were clear, wouldn't he?

The other heavy handed item that I hope lessens and gains some nuance is how the guests are portrayed.  At this rate, the cull of real people is going to be met with cheers to the point that drama and suspense might be hard to create for any type of climax.

[WaltersHair]

The white hat guy looks like Christian Slater. It's giving me a slight case of Heathers creeps.

[ennui]

45 minutes ago, tenativelyyours said:

I like the theory that raised above about the episode having a flashback sequence but I do think Dolores is slightly glitched out that William is the one to enact Teddy's usual can picking up role. 

Dolores has dropped the can three times, and each time someone different picked it up (Teddy, MIB, White Hat).

I know White Hat Guy only from Rose Red, and he hasn't aged, which is curious.

[tenativelyyours]

We saw Teddy pick it up a number of times.  When the black hat did she seemed puzzled in way that tied into her being part of the "story", her reaction to William though seemed very different to me (in a subtle way though).  Maybe just me. 

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, parandroid said:

what's the point in bleeding out the card dealer if all you needed was his scalp?

Didn't TMIB say that he's bled him enough to weaken him so he couldn't struggle, but not enough to kill him?

1 hour ago, tenativelyyours said:

I'm starting to wonder if there isn't a history that goes back even beyond the first Westworld character roles.

Honestly, I see nothing to make me believe that the events of Westworld 1973 (Yul Brynner, et al) are a part of the history of this milieu.  I don't think we are expected to believe that this show is taking place in that universe, only 30 years later.  Or have I missed a clue?  An announcement by TPTB?  

[parandroid]

45 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

4 hours ago, parandroid said:

what's the point in bleeding out the card dealer if all you needed was his scalp?

Didn't TMIB say that he's bled him enough to weaken him so he couldn't struggle, but not enough to kill him?

Yes. But if he is after his scalp, just killing him would have gotten him there much more quickly. Maybe he is a sadistic bastard who wants people to die slowly, but if that is so, that aspect of him hasn't been introduced so far. So far, all that's been shown is that he likes to win all his fights, and that he does like to rub it in the faces of the people he defeats, but he doesn't seem to be a Ramsay Bolton.

Edited October 9, 2016 by parandroid

[tenativelyyours]

42 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Didn't TMIB say that he's bled him enough to weaken him so he couldn't struggle, but not enough to kill him?

Honestly, I see nothing to make me believe that the events of Westworld 1973 (Yul Brynner, et al) are a part of the history of this milieu.  I don't think we are expected to believe that this show is taking place in that universe, only 30 years later.  Or have I missed a clue?  An announcement by TPTB?  

 

 

Oh gosh.  In no way do I mean the original Westworld.  No I mean the original roles of these characters.  Like the mention of the cultist coming through in Dolores' father's quotes.   And in this episode the constant flashbacks to the attack on the Madam in another role/aspect that had the Man in Black eventually involved.  My pondering was whether these replicates had roles outside of their current Westworld incarnations.   There was speculation, quite valid, that outside of the entertainment aspect of the park there might be involvement by the board in terms of military contracting.  Especially in the first episode when Sizemore fumbles his power play by saying he thinks there are other agendas and goals and then is derided as being useless if all he can do is notice such might exist but not know what they are. 

I'm just wondering if before Westworld got off the ground the program that started this all wasn't being applied covertly in the "real" world.

[Netfoot]

11 minutes ago, tenativelyyours said:

In no way do I mean the original Westworld.

Ok, I went back and read your original post, and you are correct, you never said that.  I guess I misinterpreted your words.  There have been other comments, by other people, about the '73 movie supposedly being a part of the history of this universe, and I guess I jumped to the conclusion your comments were going there as well.  Sorry -- my bad!

[gatopretoNYC]

55 minutes ago, parandroid said:

Yes. But if he is after his scalp, just killing him would have gotten him there much more quickly. Maybe he is a sadistic bastard who wants people to die slowly, but if that is so, that aspect of him hasn't been introduced so far. So far, all that's been shown is that he likes to win all his fights, and that he does like to rub it in the faces of the people he defeats, but he doesn't seem to be a Ramsay Bolton.

 

The MiB tortured Kissy before killing him to get information about Lawrence, the outlaw he saved from hanging.

[ennui]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

Ok, I went back and read your original post, and you are correct, you never said that.  I guess I misinterpreted your words.  There have been other comments, by other people, about the '73 movie supposedly being a part of the history of this universe, and I guess I jumped to the conclusion your comments were going there as well.  Sorry -- my bad!

I don't think the original film is part of this series, but I think they have given a couple of nods to it. A subtle tip of the hat, if you will. 

[tenativelyyours]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Ok, I went back and read your original post, and you are correct, you never said that.  I guess I misinterpreted your words.  There have been other comments, by other people, about the '73 movie supposedly being a part of the history of this universe, and I guess I jumped to the conclusion your comments were going there as well.  Sorry -- my bad!

I started my post and several characters' names just went "poof" and so there were enough generalities where clarity could have served me and anyone reading a bit better and it wasn't really there.  Apology not needed but still appreciated,  thank you.

[Miles]

Now that I've had time to process some of my being annoyed, I have to talk about one detail I thought was important in this episode and that nobody mentioned before.

Ford says that the androids talk so much to each other to learn how to be more human. Meaning their behaviour is not completely preprogrammed, they are actually learning AI. Which means they always have to have access to some sort of unconcious memory and the reveries from last week really weren't that unusual. The problem probably lies deeper than just the last failed update...

7 hours ago, ennui said:

I don't think that's his program. He probably says no.

I don't think so. The androids will do whatver the guests want, regardless of their usual storyline. We've seen that when Teddy was diverted from his usual routine to be a tourguide for the 4 bros. So if somebody wants to have sex with him, he'll say yes.

15 hours ago, dr pepper said:

I don't get how killing a robot's mother, extended family, and neighbors causes her to voice a secret plus commentary "it's not for you". That's video game logic.

Videogames are usually better written than that.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Miles

[numbnut]

7 hours ago, ennui said:

I was a little confused by Maeve's flashback -- must have been a previous story for her. And her infection causing pain; there must be actual biological elements in the construction of the hosts.

I'm thinking Maeve's pain was caused by a knife wound -- the MiB was coming for her with a knife before she woke up from her flashback. Teddy also touched his former gunshot wound when he was back on the arrival train.

Edited October 9, 2016 by numbnut

[waterytart]

6 minutes ago, numbnut said:

I'm thinking Maeve's pain was caused by a knife wound -- the MiB was coming for her with a knife before she woke up from her flashback. Teddy also touched his former wound when he was back on the arrival train.

They stated that the pain was because she had contracted MRSA from a client.

[Netfoot]

2 minutes ago, Miles said:

Meaning their behaviour is not completely preprogrammed, they are actually learning AI.

These hosts unquestionably exhibit AI in the Turing Test sense.  An unsuspecting person could easily mistake them for human.  They could even physically pass for human, after a cursory examination.  

So, I'm not sure it's AI that they are developing, because they have that already.  What then?  Genuine intelligence?  Emotions?  Feelings?  Whatever it is, it puts them beyond being machines that can be built, used, neglected, expended, disposed.  

[Miles]

50 minutes ago, waterytart said:

They stated that the pain was because she had contracted MRSA from a client.

No, she had contracted MRSA when the technitions stitches her back together. The two guys operating on here were talking about how their co-workers weren't good at hygene. It seems like the tissue is human-like, which means MRSA must thrive there, like it does in hospitals.

It's entirely possible that the original wound the MRSA entered was caused by the knife attack.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Miles

[AuntiePam]

It just hit me -- I'm so slow -- the hosts are actually feeling pain and fear -- they're not just programmed to feign it, they're not acting.  I'm not sure how to deal with this. 

There was a weird little continuity error this episode.  When Bernard enters his room, he's not wearing his glasses.  We see him come in the room, there's a brief cut, then we see him remove his jacket and take off his glasses.   

Someone asked about the meaning of the episode title "Chestnut".  The only explanation I can come up with is reference to the term "that old chestnut", meaning a story that is repeated so often that it becomes boring.  The show sure has a lot of repeated stories, and we have Ford's conversation with the boy about boredom.  So maybe it's related to that?

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

Someone asked about the meaning of the episode title "Chestnut".  The only explanation I can come up with is reference to the term "that old chestnut", meaning a story that is repeated so often that it becomes boring.  The show sure has a lot of repeated stories, and we have Ford's conversation with the boy about boredom.  So maybe it's related to that?

I was wondering about the title too. Your explanation definitely fits with Maeve's storyline and her anecdote for the guests.

Edited October 9, 2016 by numbnut

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

It just hit me -- I'm so slow -- the hosts are actually feeling pain and fear -- they're not just programmed to feign it, they're not acting.  I'm not sure how to deal with this. 

I agree. Talk about slipping in a big change in the story. If they can't actually feel physical pain and maybe some form of emotional pain and the people who program them know that.. wow... horrible.  I don't think the newcomers know that because I think anyone with any compassion couldn't treat them the way that they do.   You kind of would have to be a monster to want to go there anyway.  I will have to see how the show resolves this. Because I can't imagine they meant that to be the case in the same way we are thinking of it. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Thandie Newton wowed me in this episode. Overall, I'm finding the acting pretty darn good, but I truly felt her emotions when she was on screen. It gave me shivers.

[GinnyMars]

23 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

If security can keep a tab on the Man in Black as we saw, shouldn't someone be noticing what he is going for by now?  And the girl character spouting the answer he wanted seems odd

Theory from Reddit:

Quote

 

I have a feeling that MiB/anyone looking for the maze has to fulfill certain quests in a certain way. The way he killed Kissy was so specific. And in episode 2, when he shoots up the whole village, it's almost immediately after he kills the mother that the little girl "shuts off" and gives him the clue. It felt very structured, with the way he knew the cousins were coming and had exactly the right amount of bullets.

I don't know. It seems logical that guests wanting to play at a higher level or find the maze had to pass certain "quests" or steps to get there to prove they really wanted it.

 

(thanks for linking there Izeinwinter, very interesting)

Edited October 9, 2016 by GinnyMars

[Izeinwinter]

RE: the girl shutting down, I have a theory about that - it's a moral standards thing. (cutting from a reddit post of mine)

The company doesn't want to break immersion by having a world without children. They're necessary background color. Heck, they're probably occasional quest goals. "Get Timmy out of the well"

But the company also does not wish to become a destination for child-abuse tourism. That would be a pr nightmare.

So the kids break character if you're too mean to them. Shoot the town- still portraying a kid. Shoot the mother, still a kid. Point the gun at the kid? "robot mode"

They're set up to go go blank if stressed beyond normal levels (for west-world, so a shootout just makes them hide) If you target them, they don't cry, they don't suffer, they just go blank. 

Moving into guessing territory: If you tell a kid to get lost, they do that too, in a way a real kid probably wouldn't. That interaction with the boss might not be special at all-  it is a break from perfect immersion to facilitate guest rampages.

If you visit a ranch and want to bang the nice couple, you can tell their daughter to run along, and she just will.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Izeinwinter