S02.E11: Pablo & Jessica

[ChipBach]

Fairly efficient show.  I either pee'd or fast forwarded through the Nick scenes.  The hotel scenes were better, but I couldn't help hear the great "Doctor Evil" in my head say; "I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."

120 bullets would have made the entire Madison Pied Podster trick unnecessary.  

[natyxg]

I sort of like the hotel story, reminds a little bit of  We're Alive.

It's not super stellar, but it's okay-ish and it's making Maddy and Alicia more likeable, because yay active characters! It's a pity it has to be intercut over and over with the other boring storylines. Still, the pier plan seemed very stupid. The walkers could have just stopped jumping, or Madison could have been swept away by the tide, or maybe they will wash ashore again. Going floor by floor seemed smarter, but whatever. Also, I facepalm so much at these people who haven't realized yet that they need to have fucking walkie talkies at all times. At least try to find them or something. So many plots here and at the original show could be solved if they had that, which is of course why they don't. But it's sort of like seeing over and over these big plots about people dehydrating, yet no one thinks that finding water is a must. In a situation like that I would be terrified of getting separated from my loved ones and would try to find walkie talkies, radios or would be constantly coming up with rendezvous points to meet up later, or SOMETHING. Something to acknowledge that we can be separated and there is a plan in place for that.

I find Nick's plot mind-numbing and I don't like the setting. I hate heat and dirt and just looking at that hot looking, dirty, dry place makes me not want to watch. At least the hotel looks pretty.

I wonder if Ophelia will get a solo episode and if the actress was pregnant or something and they gave her time off or what.

Edited September 12, 2016 by natyxg

[xaxat]

I don't like how Nick is becoming a White Savior for a group that has managed to do well by themselves.

[ganesh]

20 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Making all the walkers just walk off a pier is certainly an interesting strategy.

Again, this is something that I'm surprised no one is thinking about. There's just an overall lack of strategic thinking in this show universe. It seems like they're doing this now, but I'm wondering if it's going to be an actual narrative theme. 

Quote

In a situation like that I would be terrified of getting separated from my loved ones and would try to find walkie talkies, radios or would be constantly coming up with rendezvous points to meet up later, or SOMETHING. Something to acknowledge that we can be separated and there is a plan in place for that.

It's things like this that interest me. I've yet to see anyone suggest finding a radio tower or even use a CB radio!

I'm just not a big fan of 'herding' the zombies. There's just too many variables where it can fall apart. I know it's more tedious, but I think braining them is the option with less risk. And they're leading them *all* out at once? That's ridiculous. You've got the overwhelming tactical advantage of the hallways and rooms, etc., and then bring them all outside? Why not just dump them all in the pool and harpoon them at your leisure?

If you know you're going swimming, and there's going to be zombies literally falling on top of you, wouldn't you strip down? I mean shoes and pants *and* a sweatshirt aren't going to be helping you at that point. 

When Madison was "negotiating" with the other hotel people, I was like "why bother?" I mean, ok "hey let's work together and set up this hotel right. No? Ok. You stay over here, and we'll stay out of your way. Thanks."

 I also thought that Madison and Strand were in a much more dire situation than when they started this episode. Weren't they trapped on the top of the bar. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by ganesh

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, all - we've relaxed the 'don't talk about TWD' here a bit in the past few weeks, but just so you know, saying something like "I know we aren't supposed to post about TWD here, but...' is probably going to get your post removed going forward.

If I may suggest - let's take any further 'Madison is Rick!' talk over here to the comparison topic, please.

Thanks for posting at Previously.TV!

[MissScarlett]

Another enjoyable episode, I think.

I like that Maddy is stepping up as a leader and that Alicia is as well! I also like the hotel group and hope that they stay with us for this journey. Brenda Strong (not sure what her character's name is) is a really good actress. I'm hoping that she is able to come out of her despair and join the living. Not that she hasn't earned her despair. Also, I feel like there is more backstory with her as she kind of had an air about her like she worked for the government or something related.

The character of Strand continues to show awesome growth! I felt for the brokenhearted groom and the mother of the bride. That was definitely the wedding day from hell.

Maddy wants to make a new home and Strand feels like he's lost his home, and so he drifts. That is an interesting dynamic but I hope that doesn't mean that Strand will leave and journey off on his own. At this point, I still feel like we are too early in the show to have different characters wander off onto their own storyline. We need to care about them first and get a feel for what each character brings to the group.

Speaking of characters and their own storylines -- Nick's story was kind of boring this week. I think it's crap that he and Luciana hooked up so soon. Are they the "couple to root for" on this show now? I want to like Nick and I do -- mostly. The addict in him makes him less than trustworthy and some of his decisions have been proven to be selfish and nonsensical. 

Hoping for more Travis and Chris in next week's episode. I like the thought that Chris might one day be a "big bad" that the group will have to fight. On that note... never thought i'd look forward to seeing an episode with more Travis and Chris...

Wherefore art thou' Ophelia? No one has mentioned her in this episode... at least not that I can recall.

Edited September 13, 2016 by MissScarlett

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

A Drug-Making Montage Homage (Or Ripoff?) Plagues Fear The Walking Dead

It would be less egregious if this weren't already an AMC spinoff.

[ChipBach]

On 9/12/2016 at 7:24 PM, ganesh said:

I'm just not a big fan of 'herding' the zombies. There's just too many variables where it can fall apart. I know it's more tedious, but I think braining them is the option with less risk. And they're leading them *all* out at once? That's ridiculous. You've got the overwhelming tactical advantage of the hallways and rooms, etc., and then bring them all outside? Why not just dump them all in the pool and harpoon them at your leisure?  

How about just playing music in the courtyard and having most of them plunge OUTSIDE the hotel and keep them locked out?  I know that they are somewhat impervious to a five story fall verses Maddie taking a wine bottle to their head, but the fall should at least snap a femur or two and slow most of them down...

[Nashville]

Quote

Wherefore art thou' Ophelia? No one has mentioned her in this episode... at least not that I can recall.

Ofelia was only mentioned in the context of people discussing her absence.  

Mad did mention she had promised Ofelia's dad to keep his daughter safe.  Now, normally by that metric within the context of this show we could safely assume O-face has already begun the conversion process from survivor to zombie kibble; the disappearance of the truck, however, throws some doubt on that conclusion.

Probably fell down a well somewhere.  ;)

Edited September 14, 2016 by Nashville

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, ChipBach said:

How about just playing music in the courtyard and having most of them plunge OUTSIDE the hotel and keep them locked out?  I know that they are somewhat impervious to a five story fall verses Maddie taking a wine bottle to their head, but the fall should at least snap a femur or two and slow most of them down...

There's a myriad of strategies to clear out the hotel that could have been considered, and they chose one that carried a lot of unnecessary risk. I know it's not compelling television to sit around and talk about something, but it can be interesting enough to see them scoping out the zombies and brainstorming. "What do we have? How could we herd them?" Since it's still early in the show universe, I'm surprised no one suggested burning them.

Even if they decided to herd them off the dock, I still would have herded them into several rooms, and then lead them out by 5 or so. This isn't a time sensitive project.

[ChipBach]

Again.  Two pistols and 120 rounds of ammunition could clear out three floors a day, little risk and effort (toss the bodies out of the windows)...

The fact that we are this far in to the ZA and these numb-nuts are still walking around with WOODEN sticks to punch through the SKULL of a dead guy is ludicrous - not easy to pierce skull bone with a slightly pointed plunger handle...  Not easy getting off a SECOND swing with a fire axe, pretty heavy tool...  Surely they could have picked up a firearm at some point in time...

[Nashville]

22 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Even if they decided to herd them off the dock, I still would have herded them into several rooms, and then lead them out by 5 or so. This isn't a time sensitive project.

 That was my first thought too, when someone said something about the floor-to-floor taking too long - what, you got a dentist's appointment you're afraid of missing?

Another thing - why clear ALL the floors?  I mean, we're talking 17 floors in three buildings for... what, a dozen people?  Seems to me a MUCH smarter approach would be to:

• Clear the infected out of the top 14 floors.
• Herd them ALL down to floors 1-3.  
• Move all your food and other supplies to the upper floors - either a central warehouse, or a cache on each floor.

Do this, and you have:

• Tons of living space - heck, each survivor could start off with their own personal floor.
• Roof access for rainwater catches.
• Gardening space on the roof and balconies.
• ...and, in case any marauders should come a-calling, a 3-floor "moat" jam-packed with oozy goodies they'd have to fight through before they even got to you or your provisions.

[piequinn35]

I was waiting for the groom to change his mind and push Strand to Jessica :))

[luna1122]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:06 PM, minamurray78 said:

Ok, but what about Ofelia man? this is the  Sophia mess, all over again.

Hygiene wise, who would you rather get bussy with: Nick or Daryl? Hair is looking like is off limits for both, really. 

i'd happily do either, honestly. I liked this episode. Nick is, frankly, pretty much the only reason I've kept watching consistently; I find Frank Dillane a really compelling actor and pretty, too, like a baby Johnny Depp (and we kind of need a new one these days), even when he's grimy and has stupid hair, which is usually.

[ganesh]

The only thing would be if they didn't have enough ammunition. My other concern would be all the shooting might attract more outside, or some bandits who want to investigate the noise. Melee combat would be time consuming, but that's not a huge issue, and the advantage of keeping quiet. 

I think it would be smarter to find the right weapons first. My arms would fall off if I was toting that axe around for a couple of hours. The kitchen probably has an assortment of knives, and janitorial would have tools like a shovel or even smaller hand axes. 

[Haleth]

Maddie wanted to get the dead cleared out so they could concentrate on fortifying the hotel before bad guys (coughchriscough) show up to take over.  I'm not sure it's that urgent though.  Good episode!  (Never expected to say that!)

I wonder if Ofelia will show up sometime with Daniel. 

[madam magpie]

Alicia!! My girl was smart, useful, brave (and scared, but understandably so), and all round awesome once again! I even liked Madison this week, though the actress is playing the character so flat. I don't get why. She showed some spark of emotion in the scenes with Alicia, but...I don't know. It feels off but purposeful to me. I hope we get some backstory to explain it.

I thought Brenda Strong et al were killed last week when Alicia et al opened the doors to the zombies...

Oy Nick. I don't know. Still like Luciana.

Once again, didn't miss Travis/Chris at all.

[morgankobi]

So sorry...can.not.help.it.

Wherefore means "why," not "where."

Back under my nerdy rock now.

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, MissScarlett said:

Maddy wants to make a new home and Strand feels like he's lost his home, and so he drifts. That is an interesting dynamic but I hope that doesn't mean that Strand will leave and journey off on his own.

Frankly, I believe Strand is questioning what he has to live for. 

Not that I think Strand is seriously considering suicide, but from the first moment we met him Strand has always been The Man With the Plan - a ruling guide for his actions:

1. Get to the Abigail.
2. Float her down to Mexico.
3. Get to the Abigail family home at Valle de Guadalupe.
4. Rejoin Thomas and live happily ever after.

A sound plan, and one that Strand executes successfully - but even at the very moment Strand's plan reaches its fruition, its success is instantaneous with its failure:

• Strand is reunited with Thomas - but Thomas is bitten, and dies within a day of Strand's arrival. 
• The home which was supposed to be their sanctuary?  Burned down later the same day.
• The Abigail?  Stolen by the military.

Strand's plan was a rudder to provide him a sure course in navigating the maelstrom which post-ZA life has become, but now Strand has lost it all in the course of 2 or 3 days.  Drifts is a very good word to use here: Strand is now rudderless.  He floats along with Madison / Alicia / Ofelia simply because he has no idea of anything better to do, and Madison is the only person (other than maybe Nick) who has ever intellectually engaged Strand to a significant degree.

Strand is the perfect name for this character; the rope which was his lifeline has unraveled, and all that is left is a single - Strand.

[Gobi]

In the preview, Strand was seen lying a the ground with what looked like a wound. Probably just a fake out, though; I don't think they would kill him this soon.

Which leads me to wonder - Who is wearing plot armor in this show? My guess is Madison, Travis, Nick, and Alycia. 

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

Which leads me to wonder - Who is wearing plot armor in this show? My guess is Madison, Travis, Nick, and Alycia. 

I'm not so sure about Travis, although that might be wishful thinking.  He is such a dull character.  Maddie and Strand have a lot more chemistry and would make a more powerful team, especially if they end up as leaders of the hotel community.  It seems a good bet that of Travis and Chris, only one will still be standing at the end of the season.  I still think it would be a better story to see Chris arise as the leader of a bad gang.  (As long as he isn't wearing an eye patch by the end of it.)

Edited September 14, 2016 by Haleth

[JackONeill]

I think we're being introduced to new characters because TPTB have boxed themselves into a corner with who's wearing Teflon. Nick and Strand are fan favorites (if that term even applies to this show). I think, originally, Travis and Maddie were considered the leads. Maddie seems, finally, to be rising to the challenge. Alicia is really coming into her own. Chris, to me, is the wild card, but I'm warming to him becoming the next Dr. Evil.

they killed the ex-wife, but she was only part time. They killed Stand's lover, Luis and Cecelia (but they were bit players -- who got bit. Get it? I'm going to take this on the road.)

they killed Daniel...or did they????? Which explains where Ofelia is...or does it?

so, they need new characters (that last more than a couple of shows) who they can kill.

Edited September 14, 2016 by JackONeill

[diebartdie]

On 9/11/2016 at 10:39 PM, morgankobi said:

If they think drawing out returning to Travis and Psycho Chris's story to see how Travis reacts to his eye-opening of last week will make me even more interested and likely to tune-in, they're wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

They're wrong.

They're wrong.

They're wroooong.

(Thanks, Dr. Cox.)

Yeah but wouldn't they be even more wrong if Captain Wrong and The Wrongbots were to drop it into a giant vat of Wrongsauce?

[kdm07]

Finally got around to watching this last night. I know a lot of people still can't get into this show but for me, it's finally seemingly headed in the right direction and by the time the season ends, I hope the writing team will have found their groove because the show does have potential and the cast (based on previous work) have a good acting range so let them show it producers/directors!

- Still haven't warmed to Nick and now he's gotten Luciana to fall in love with him. Too bad, I thought she was smarter than that.

- Strand & Madison have an interesting relationship that should definitely be explored more. Same as the relationship between Madison & Alicia. Madison has finally realized how much she checked out when it comes to Alicia's upbringing so it's a start on that front too.

- Making the hotel a fortified space is an interesting choice but the mother of the bride is a wild card. I fully expect her to put everyone in danger again due to her grief.

- Another good episode that doesn't feature Chris & Travis. Is there a pattern forming here?

[smartymarty]

Quote

If you know you're going swimming, and there's going to be zombies literally falling on top of you, wouldn't you strip down? I mean shoes and pants *and* a sweatshirt aren't going to be helping you at that point. 

Thank you.

And as anyone who has gone camping discovers, since flashlights and candles can run out, you quickly adjust your awake and sleep time to the sunrise and sunset. Why does Nick bother to light 5 candles at night when he can easily read during the day, or the Feast after Rip-Tided Walkers take place at candle-light? These things are a precious resource. Of course the answer is that for TPTB, it creates a neat atmosphere. But it's totally unbelievable to me.

[Nashville]

Purely as an aside - the title to this episode is aggravating as heck to me.  

Every time I see "Pablo and Jessica", my brain immediately segues to "Pancho and Lefty".

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Purely as an aside - the title to this episode is aggravating as heck to me.  

Every time I see "Pablo and Jessica", my brain immediately segues to "Pancho and Lefty".

You know, maybe I should know who they are, but I don't. And, the kicker is, I don't care.

So much of this show makes no sense, so if the writers think they're being clever with the titles, they're not because the writers are the reason I no longer apply full brain power to their show.

[Nashville]

11 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

You know, maybe I should know who they are, but I don't. And, the kicker is, I don't care.

So much of this show makes no sense, so if the writers think they're being clever with the titles, they're not because the writers are the reason I no longer apply full brain power to their show.

If by they you're referring to Pablo and Jessica (and yeah I know you don't care, but now that the question's been posed I need closure):

• Pablo was Luciana's brother who was reported dead this episode - more specifically, they found Pablo "in pieces".  Sounded like Pablo ran afoul of either the town gang, or another batch of marauders.  I'd lean more toward the town gang, if for no other reason than it would be much more interesting (to me, anyway) if (a) Pablo got julienned as retaliation for Nick's hijinks, and (b) Luciana discovers this immediately after schtupping the guy who got her brother killed.
• Jessica was the hotel bride who got her face bitten off by Newly Undead Dad (hmmm... UnDad, maybe?).  Apparently Oscar (her new hubby) carried Jessica up to the honeymoon suite immediately post-bite but pre-death; now she's dead / Turned / locked in the honeymoon suite, and Oscar can't bring himself to mercy her - so Strand volunteers to do the deed.

If by they you're referring to "Pancho and Lefty" - it's a classic song by Townes Van Zandt.  :)

[JackONeill]

12 minutes ago, Nashville said:

If by they you're referring to Pablo and Jessica (and yeah I know you don't care, but now that the question's been posed I need closure):

• Pablo was Luciana's brother who was reported dead this episode - more specifically, they found Pablo "in pieces".  Sounded like Pablo ran afoul of either the town gang, or another batch of marauders.  I'd lean more toward the town gang, if for no other reason than it would be much more interesting (to me, anyway) if (a) Pablo got julienned as retaliation for Nick's hijinks, and (b) Luciana discovers this immediately after schtupping the guy who got her brother killed.
• Jessica was the hotel bride who got her face bitten off by Newly Undead Dad (hmmm... UnDad, maybe?).  Apparently Oscar (her new hubby) carried Jessica up to the honeymoon suite immediately post-bite but pre-death; now she's dead / Turned / locked in the honeymoon suite, and Oscar can't bring himself to mercy her - so Strand volunteers to do the deed.

If by they you're referring to "Pancho and Lefty" - it's a classic song by Townes Van Zandt.  :)

See, now there are four people I didn't know and now, even with knowing them, I still don't know them.

This show has damaged me. I used to know people.

[xaxat]

I wish AMC or some smart person on Etsy would market Luciana's grey, blood stained shirt. The color combination and hand patterns are the height of zombie chic.

(The person wearing it also helped.)

[ganesh]

The episode title reminds me of the Lost episode where they killed of the dopey secondary character no one liked.

[SnarkyTart]

33 minutes ago, ganesh said:

The episode title reminds me of the Lost episode where they killed of the dopey secondary character no one liked.

As soon as I saw this episode title, I thought of the Lost episode titled "Nikki and Paulo" where they had a whole episode devoted to two characters no one knew.  Is that the one you're thinking of?  Then we had Sawyer going around asking "Who the hell are Nikki and Paulo?!?" 

"Pablo and Jessica" was similar, too, in that when first informed of Pablo's death, Nick asks "Who's Pablo?", which could easily have been answered with the question, "Who cares?"   

[JackONeill]

I commented during the Live Viewing of the episode that what came to mind from the title was the Nikki & Paulo stink from Lost. Lost, a much better show than FTWD, caught hell for those episodes.

You would think that TPTB knew, or should have known, about that. Or, maybe, TPTB no longer cares about their show and are secretly (quote, unquote) sending winks to the more-discerning viewers.

[ganesh]

How about just digging in a writing a good show and think about the cutesy patootsey episode titles afterwards?

[raven]

The "lead the zombies to the riptide" plan seems LESS dangerous then cleaning them out room by room.  Too many places to hide in those rooms, it's tiring to whack them in the head (theoretically), you could only injure one who falls down and then it bites your leg...close quarters is a tough place to struggle in.   As long as you're not running and screaming, apparently the dead just follow and snarl, heh.  Plus the visual was cool, I like the set pieces and outside shots we get.   I assume the riptide would pull them out to sea; maybe a some would wash back up and you can whack them then.

Plus I would think you'd want to clear the hotel sooner rather than later so that you can get down to fortifying, stocking and reassessing.  There would need to be a long term plan at some point.  Are they going to live there forever?

I liked Strand's scene with the groom.  He was drifting but wants to help someone else; that seems a big step for him.  He may be deciding he wants to live after all (unless he's hoping Jesscia will chow on him...but I don't think so).

9 hours ago, kdm07 said:

Strand & Madison have an interesting relationship that should definitely be explored more. Same as the relationship between Madison & Alicia. Madison has finally realized how much she checked out when it comes to Alicia's upbringing so it's a start on that front too.

I agree; Madison and Strand make a good team and I liked the Alicia/Madison scenes. 

Nick has been either kind of useless or a liability so I liked that he was making himself useful, but yeah the show needs to be careful and not make him a magical junkie.  I know Luciana is depressed about her brother but I don't get the attraction to Nick.   He seems like such a kid to me still; wish they had left them as friends/working partners right now and waited a bit longer. 

12 hours ago, JackONeill said:

they killed Daniel...or did they????? Which explains where Ofelia is...or does it?

My half-baked theory is that a slightly burned Daniel nabbed her in the hotel and they took off in the truck. 

Not really interested in the leftover wedding family, they probably won't be around for long. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Plus I would think you'd want to clear the hotel sooner rather than later so that you can get down to fortifying, stocking and reassessing.  There would need to be a long term plan at some point.  Are they going to live there forever?

I was a little confused about their plan to keep out the dead and other people.  The hotel property seems way too big and open for that small group to be able to secure the place.     

Quote

Why does Nick bother to light 5 candles at night when he can easily read during the day, or the Feast after Rip-Tided Walkers take place at candle-light? These things are a precious resource. Of course the answer is that for TPTB, it creates a neat atmosphere. But it's totally unbelievable to me.

I think you are right that's it is all about creating atmosphere.  If you ever saw the show Revolution (a show about a world where the power went out, and never came back), there always seemed to be an abundance of artfully placed candles at whatever place the characters were visiting, even when it really made no sense for there to be such a huge supply in a world where they could no longer be mass produced.

Edited September 15, 2016 by txhorns79

[EyesGlazed]

On September 12, 2016 at 8:46 AM, RustbeltWriter said:

This was my favorite episode of this series simply because the characters were shown to be competent. Nick's plan is completely believable coming from him. Alicia's plan was good and they actually managed to pull it off without screwing it up.  . . .  Elena and Luciana are much more interesting.

I have nothing to snark or complain about this episode.

ITA.  I like it that we are following the characters through different adventures in the ZA rather than [ahem] wasting 8 episodes sitting on a farm or watching sweaty talks about manhood and keepin' your woman safe.  Of course I love TWD original flavor, but this show has got its advantages.  

I like Madison becoming a leader.  Her negotiation strategy was good and it worked.  (FWIW, I expect the screwup of the alliance here to come from the MOB, who will probably show up waving a gun after she finds out her daughter is now fully dead.)  I also thought that Madison's facial expressions while leading the walkers off the pier were consistent with someone being alert and worried.  

Luciana, I'll assume you were just addled by grief at losing your brother and that's why Nick was somewhat appetizing.  

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, EyesGlazed said:

FWIW, I expect the screwup of the alliance here to come from the MOB, who will probably show up waving a gun after she finds out her daughter is now fully dead.)

No doubt whatsoever Mom of the UnBride has already been painted as the powder keg which will blow this little kumbaya arrangement apart; only points with any degree of question are when and how.  Not too much on the "how", either; as I fully expect MOUB to launch a knife-in-the-back style ambush right at some point when the Kumbaya Corps has just finished repelling some form of assault, and everybody is exhausted and distracted - after which, of course, MOUB will claim some kind of moral justification for such a cowardly attack.  :P

 

Quote

I also thought that Madison's facial expressions while leading the walkers off the pier were consistent with someone being alert and worried.  

MADISON HAD EXPRESSIONS...!?!?!?

;)

[ChipBach]

Y'know, the other thing that REALLY has been bugging me this season is how they use "guts" thing as a cloaking device.  In TWD they had to REALLY cover their entire bodies with blood (and guts) to pass muster with the walkers.  Even then, the idea was the walkers might still sniff you out and turn on you...  A small rain shower caused this to happen.

In FTWD, apparently all you need to do is swipe a little blood under your eyes and a dash on your tee shirt and "boom", you are invisible.  It is lazy to have the ability to neutralize the "threat" of this show with the "spritz" of blood.  The whole tension of the dead is that they could "get you" if you are in their presence and our people really don't have to work to hard to dodge them.  If this is true, have a gallon of blood in the fridge and walk free to scavenge and forge.  Boring.

[ganesh]

Looking at this mass herding plan, too many little things could go wrong leading to a total unraveling, and it introduces unnecessary risk to the people. Madison was walking backwards on the dock. She slips and falls, and they're all over her. She jumped in the water with zombies falling on top of her fully clothed with hoodie, pants, boots. She could have gotten trapped or the riptide could have been too strong for the boat or it might not have gotten to her. The phone could have died. Not fatal, but now they're all wandering around all over the place. I just find it too large a number of zombies to manage at once. If you're going to pull of this plan, then maybe a few at a time. 

I'm just not convinced that the time factor was so pressing, and a more deliberate and methodical approach would have been far less risky. Probably not as effective overall, but in the end, you're cleaning them all out so that's really the only goal. It seems that isolating 2 or 3 with two live people would be a lot easier. Or at the least pinning them somewhere in groups where you can attack from a highly defensible position. 

I'm not for using guns for so many at this point, but I would concede if you go scavenge enough ammo, it's much easier to clear out the hotel with them all pinned and isolate, which was already stated. 

Getting them out in the open is just a bad idea to me. 

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, ChipBach said:

Y'know, the other thing that REALLY has been bugging me this season is how they use "guts" thing as a cloaking device.  In TWD they had to REALLY cover their entire bodies with blood (and guts) to pass muster with the walkers.  Even then, the idea was the walkers might still sniff you out and turn on you...  A small rain shower caused this to happen.

In FTWD, apparently all you need to do is swipe a little blood under your eyes and a dash on your tee shirt and "boom", you are invisible.  It is lazy to have the ability to neutralize the "threat" of this show with the "spritz" of blood.  The whole tension of the dead is that they could "get you" if you are in their presence and our people really don't have to work to hard to dodge them.  If this is true, have a gallon of blood in the fridge and walk free to scavenge and forge.  Boring.

Only justification that I can come up with is that because these zombies are "fresher", it takes less blood/guts for them to react. Of course, that assumes that all the TWD zombies are older, which is not always the case.

[Haleth]

20 hours ago, ganesh said:

Looking at this mass herding plan, too many little things could go wrong leading to a total unraveling, and it introduces unnecessary risk to the people. Madison was walking backwards on the dock. She slips and falls, and they're all over her. She jumped in the water with zombies falling on top of her fully clothed with hoodie, pants, boots. She could have gotten trapped or the riptide could have been too strong for the boat or it might not have gotten to her. The phone could have died. Not fatal, but now they're all wandering around all over the place. I just find it too large a number of zombies to manage at once. If you're going to pull of this plan, then maybe a few at a time. 

I'm just not convinced that the time factor was so pressing, and a more deliberate and methodical approach would have been far less risky. Probably not as effective overall, but in the end, you're cleaning them all out so that's really the only goal. It seems that isolating 2 or 3 with two live people would be a lot easier. Or at the least pinning them somewhere in groups where you can attack from a highly defensible position. 

I'm not for using guns for so many at this point, but I would concede if you go scavenge enough ammo, it's much easier to clear out the hotel with them all pinned and isolate, which was already stated. 

Getting them out in the open is just a bad idea to me. 

While these are all valid concerns I think the biggest problem is that they may wash up anywhere.  Sending them out to sea is only a temporary fix.

[nodorothyparker]

There wasn't any real sense that they were concerned at all about that.  The entire plan based on the rip tide washing the zombies away could be summed up as Not Here, Someone Else's Problem.  The mothership crew was apparently working under the same mantra with their own zombie herding operation.

[Raven1707]

I'm late with these -- had a busy week -- but here are the Live + Same Day ratings for "Pablo & Jessica":

“Fear the Walking Dead” bounced back some from its series low the previous week, rising three tenths of a point to a 1.5. [3.401 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/09/13/sunday-cable-ratings-sept-11-2016/

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 2, so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million

08-21-16 “Grotesque” 3.864 million
08-28-16 “Los Muertos” 3.661 million
09-04-16 “Do Not Disturb” 2.991 million
09-11-16 “Pablo & Jessica” 3.401 million

[ganesh]

Do the zombies sink?

[oakville]

On 9/13/2016 at 3:25 PM, Nashville said:

 That was my first thought too, when someone said something about the floor-to-floor taking too long - what, you got a dentist's appointment you're afraid of missing?

Another thing - why clear ALL the floors?  I mean, we're talking 17 floors in three buildings for... what, a dozen people?  Seems to me a MUCH smarter approach would be to:

• Clear the infected out of the top 14 floors.
• Herd them ALL down to floors 1-3.  
• Move all your food and other supplies to the upper floors - either a central warehouse, or a cache on each floor.

Do this, and you have:

• Tons of living space - heck, each survivor could start off with their own personal floor.
• Roof access for rainwater catches.
• Gardening space on the roof and balconies.
• ...and, in case any marauders should come a-calling, a 3-floor "moat" jam-packed with oozy goodies they'd have to fight through before they even got to you or your provisions.

Interesting idea. How would you be able to get out of the hotel to get more supplies in future?

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live + 3 ratings are in for "Pablo & Jessica":

“Fear the Walking Dead” (2.4 rating) tops the 18-49 chart... [5.185 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/09/18/cable-live-3-ratings-sept-5-11-2016/

And here are the Live + Same Day plus the Live +3 ratings for Season 2, so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million; Live +3 8.826 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million; Live +3 7.781 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million; Live +3 6.995 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million; Live + 3 6.958 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million; Live +3 6.924 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million; Live +3 6.784 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million; Live +3 6.663 million

08-21-16 “Grotesque” 3.864 million; Live +3 5.756 million
08-28-16 “Los Muertos” 3.661 million; Live +3 5.535 million
09-04-16 “Do Not Disturb” 2.991 million; Live +3 5.275 million
09-11-16 “Pablo & Jessica” 3.401 million; Live +3 5.185 million

[xaxat]

I wonder how much AMC is regretting that hiatus.

[JackONeill]

2 hours ago, xaxat said:

I wonder how much AMC is regretting that hiatus.

And tonight they're up against the Emmys.

[Jordan27]

Really liked the pier idea.  The tide may take most of them out or they will get eaten, but I don't think I would be swimming anytime soon in that water.  It might not be a jellyfish on your leg.