Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CarolMK]

I thought that Anna was due sometime in early July. I'm actually wondering where she'll have the baby...are they still in DC til the end of July or have they moved and we just don't know of their whereabouts at the moment? Somewhere, I read that they were renting their house until the end of July.  TLC will probably not be filming the birth, but who knows what TLC is thinking now.

[Ljohnson1987]

I feel bad for Anna in some ways, but in others, I feel like she's so stupid for knowing about this, before she married Smuggar, and just writing it off as nothing.

[JessDVD]

Anna is due July 10. I know that off the top of my head because I'm due 3 days later so the date stuck in my head. :-)

[AmyFarrahFowler]

I thought that Anna was due sometime in early July. I'm actually wondering where she'll have the baby...are they still in DC til the end of July or have they moved and we just don't know of their whereabouts at the moment? Somewhere, I read that they were renting their house until the end of July.  TLC will probably not be filming the birth, but who knows what TLC is thinking now.

 

Wasn't Anna newly postpartum when they moved to DC? Sad that she has to do it again, unless he makes her leave prior to her delivery. That shit right there sounds exhausting and now she has to do it again.

[Fuzzysox]

He could get a job with Gothard.

Oh he can come live in Chicago and live next to TFDW!!!! Woohooo

[HumblePi]

I feel bad for Anna in some ways, but in others, I feel like she's so stupid for knowing about this, before she married Smuggar, and just writing it off as nothing.

I just think that Anna, like the rest of the 'children of the corn', was sheltered as much as the Duggar's growing up. But this is what happens when you shelter children to such an extreme. Maybe if Josh was allowed to go to a regular school (not home school) and interact with girls his own age, he might have been more respectful towards them. Even if he was allowed to mingle with other Christian teens his own at a youth group and allowed to have a girlfriend, I doubt that this whole thing would have ever happened with his sisters. He went through puberty without any privacy to masturbate because he shared a bedroom with his nine brothers. Maybe Michelle and Jim Bob wanted their children to retain the 'faith of a child' because that turns off critical thinking.

 

I think Anna was raised much in the same way as Josh. Anna has a sweet personality but there's a childlike quality to her. She and the other girls never matured emotionally, not even a little bit. I feel very sympathetic towards Anna, she just had no chance to grow into a mature woman, she was only groomed to be a breeder.

Edited June 6, 2015 by HumblePi

[anewpradabag]

As a mother you protect your child at all costs this is a biological program, unless you are inherentry flawed. ANNA HAS NO EXCUSE!!!!!!

Edited June 7, 2015 by anewpradabag

[Darknight]

Gothard doesn't even pay well

[parisprincess]

I can't help but wonder if Josh is going to feel at all uncomfortable around Ben and Derrick the next time the tribe gets together for one of their big pregnancy announcements, gender reveals or births.  After all, he got to feel their wives up while the husbands couldn't even hold hands before becoming engaged.   

[Marigny]

I feel bad for Anna in some ways, but in others, I feel like she's so stupid for knowing about this, before she married Smuggar, and just writing it off as nothing happened.

Honestly, though, did she have any real alternatives? Their culture is set but in a way that gives these kids the illusion that they have choices but do they, really? 

[NikSac]

I have wondered that same thing.

Because I just can't keep track ... When is Anna due with M4? It has to be very soon, right? I wonder how the birth will be handled in the media. It makes me a little sick to think about it, honestly.

 

Bolding by me - hopefully not at all, but it'll be interesting to see.

[GeeGolly]

I think Anna was raised much in the same way as Josh. Anna has a sweet personality but there's a childlike quality to her. She and the other girls never matured emotionally, not even a little bit. I feel very sympathetic towards Anna, she just had no chance to grow into a mature woman, she was only groomed to be a breeder.

I think they have all matured quickly in these past few weeks.

[Aja]

"The librul media is persecuting my family on accounts of our Christian values" is a hell of a lot easier to cling to than "the entire foundation of my life and everything I thought I knew is sick and wrong." I'm sure Anna, like everyone else in the camp, is feeling heartbroken for her wonderful husband, a position that gets reinforced heavily by everyone around her. 

 

Just based on personal experience--I'm not a genius, but I'm smarter than Anna, and I wasn't raised in a cult, unless you count the Air Force as a cult. I was married for 20 years  and when I got divorced it was an unexpected identity crisis so intense that there were a few times I doubted I'd survive it. And that's ME, a (relatively speaking) normally-raised, extremely impure-before-marriage, not-trying-to-be-mean-but-genuinely-more-intelligent-than-Anna-Duggar, totally aware of the outside world and alternative lifestyles and philosophies and yadda yadda yadda. Oh, and I never had children. So it is completely impossible for me to wrap my head around that situation. I'm thinking "librul media" is the only way to go for Anna.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Aja

[Oldernowiser]

Exactly. Not to mention that JimBob and everyone else inside Camp Duggar is going to double down on "us versus the world." It's the oldest political science strategy there is: create loyalty within by exaggerating the enemy without.

That strategy will work for a while...until the reality of scarcity starts to set in. Then even JimBob and his almighty threats of eternal damnation may not be able to keep the group from fragmenting.

[elainebenis]

Exactly. Not to mention that JimBob and everyone else inside Camp Duggar is going to double down on "us versus the world." It's the oldest political science strategy there is: create loyalty within by exaggerating the enemy without.

That strategy will work for a while...until the reality of scarcity starts to set in. Then even JimBob and his almighty threats of eternal damnation may not be able to keep the group from fragmenting.

 

I expect the family to fragment, maybe not next week but eventually.

 

I think money (or lack thereof, to be precise) will be their primary downfall. Educated speculation says that TLC paid the family one check that went into the Duggar Trust to be divvied up and doled out by JB. (Those engaged/married get their own TLC contracts/checks). What's a mystery is how JB doles out the pot o' TLC cash. Equally between all family members? Based on screen time? Based on fan popularity and ratings? According to need? Allowances? Do Duggar males earn more than females? Have JB + M been sucking off 'management' fees a la Kris Jenner? So, so, SO many ways to feel resentful and shortchanged in hindsight, once, as you say, scarcity sets in.

Edited June 7, 2015 by elainebenis

[Sew Sumi]

Anna is due very soon early June and I feel sorry for her going through this shit and soon to deliver a new baby. I hope her labor and delivery goes smooth.

She's actually not due until early July. I don't think they ever confirmed her exact due date, but I want to say it's somewhere between the 3rd and 10th. I don't think they're going anywhere until M4 is safely delivered, much like what happened with the move to DC right after Marcus' birth. 

[zenme]

I'm imagining Anna is with family, and I'm guessing it's with the Duggars.  She is very vulnerable right now, and my guess is that she doesn't want to be alone, especially if she's in the  cocoon of Duggar denial and minimization. 

[GEML]

I think Josh and Anna are in DC. There were pictures of the flying into National, but I don't think there are pictures of them leaving, and I think there would be. They could be in the RV, but I don't see what being in AR does for them right now. Despite the wagon circling, I think there is a lot of anger towards Josh for having brought this upon the family in the first place. I don't see golden boy - I see a someone who was denied who he was at every turn, even when he did something really disturbing.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I can't help but wonder if Josh is going to feel at all uncomfortable around Ben and Derrick the next time the tribe gets together for one of their big pregnancy announcements, gender reveals or births. 

I kind of hope there's always a possibility in the back of Josh's mind that one day, one of these guys isn't going to be able to contain his anger and might haul off and slug Josh. I'm not advocating physical violence - although I admit I'd find it understandable if the husbands wanted to punch Josh - but I hope that fear is in the back of Josh's head, just as his sisters had to live in fear that at any point he might sneak into their bedrooms & sexually assault them.

I hope Ben doubles down on his working out and bulks up....just to intimidate Josh.

Since Josh is the oldest, he knows where all of the family's skeletons are buried.

I am starting to think part of the reason they are SO focused on how Josh has changed, Josh confessed, Josh was so sorry, etc. is because JimBob & Michelle are scared that he might just start spilling any other family secrets.

[GreyBunny]

I don't feel sorry for Anna.  Even if she didn't know the full extent of what Josh did when she married him, it's out there now and if she chooses to stay, she's now part of the creepshow.

[Happyfatchick]

I really hope J&A are with family somewhere safe from media, but only because of Anna and the kids. I wouldn't care, really, if Josh was trailed until he's wearing diapers in a nursing home, but I hope the media is respectful of the children. They are so so screwed. Maybe THEY should consider mission work in some remote location. It's going to be a tough life for awhile. I still say, eventually, there will be a "redemption tour" and he will support his family by sharing his testimony in churches all over the nation. It'll be 3-4 years before he can do that, until the scabs heal. But it'll happen.

[Loves2Dance]

I really hope J&A are with family somewhere safe from media, but only because of Anna and the kids. I wouldn't care, really, if Josh was trailed until he's wearing diapers in a nursing home, but I hope the media is respectful of the children. They are so so screwed. Maybe THEY should consider mission work in some remote location. It's going to be a tough life for awhile. I still say, eventually, there will be a "redemption tour" and he will support his family by sharing his testimony in churches all over the nation. It'll be 3-4 years before he can do that, until the scabs heal. But it'll happen.

Given that the media won't leave celebrity children alone when they're simply going to the doctor or having a temper tantrum, I'd say Anna and her kids don't stand a chance. The second they come out of hiding, they're doomed. The only good thing is, they don't live in DC anymore or a place like Hollywood so most of the vile people will disappear quicker. 

[truthtalk2014]

I kind of hope there's always a possibility in the back of Josh's mind that one day, one of these guys isn't going to be able to contain his anger and might haul off and slug Josh. I'm not advocating physical violence - although I admit I'd find it understandable if the husbands wanted to punch Josh - but I hope that fear is in the back of Josh's head, just as his sisters had to live in fear that at any point he might sneak into their bedrooms & sexually assault them.

I hope Ben doubles down on his working out and bulks up....just to intimidate Josh.

Since Josh is the oldest, he knows where all of the family's skeletons are buried.

I am starting to think part of the reason they are SO focused on how Josh has changed, Josh confessed, Josh was so sorry, etc. is because JimBob & Michelle are scared that he might just start spilling any other family secrets.

I have to say that pudge pot is probably already intimidated.  Did anyone see that last interview with Joshie?  He reminded me of a cross between Jim Jones and a very unhealthy Elvis. 

 

ETA:  Obviously I have no sympathy for Josh.

Edited June 8, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[CofCinci]

I figure Josh is squirreled away somewhere working on another interview deal. Perhaps $$,$$$/Diane Sawyer?

[asuwur]

I know this sounds insane, but Smuggar will have gainful employment very soon, if he doesn't already have another offer.

 

Look at the sheer numbers of others within that party that have committed some pretty heinous acts and are still getting jobs, consulting things, whatever. They're going to use him as a symbol of a "good man who made a mistake and was Taken Down by the Liberal Media." Much fundraising will follow.

 

IMHO, of course.

I mean Woody Allen is treated like a God in Hollywood with a tribute on the Oscars.....and he's one creepy, creepy dude.....

[Morgalisa]

 

I've been thinking about how Josh's physical appearance has aged recently. He's gone soft and doughy. Remember his reaction when Anna surprised him with the pee stick. I don't think that was rehearsed. Josh knew this was coming and he was sick with fear.

I also think he knew it was coming.  It is common for the tabloids to call the person and tell them what info they have on them and ask if the person wants to make a comment.  Win-win for the tabloids.

[Happyfatchick]

Remember the interviewer Stephen Colbert had - the guy who would interview some schmuck not savvy enough to know the interviewer was burning him alive...? I only saw that a couple times, but thought it was so funny! I would pay big fat money to see that happen to Josh. I'd love love love to see someone hold Josh's feet to the fire, but I bet whenever it does happen, they will use a nerf gun instead of a pitching machine. Because somehow, some way, JB will be in charge.

But Josh WILL have to do an interview for them to move past the general nasty that is now the Duggar brand. I doubt it will move the name forward much - in fact, I'm sure we'll be here ripping him apart the next day. But I think CofCinci is right, there is an interview coming (softly lit room, two chairs in the middle, probably female interviewer with eyebrows furrowed and great concern on her face...). Yep, Diane Sawyer is floating in front of me right now.

[Morgalisa]

I don't think Jim Bob gives any of the children a check or any control of their own money. So far we've seen him remodel the house for Jessa and pay for her furniture. He also paid for Jill's furniture. He bought their cars. Maybe without TCL money, they can get from under his control. At least monetarily.

[Wellfleet]

I can't help but wonder if Josh is going to feel at all uncomfortable around Ben and Derrick the next time the tribe gets together for one of their big pregnancy announcements, gender reveals or births.  After all, he got to feel their wives up while the husbands couldn't even hold hands before becoming engaged.   

 

Josh will probably be pretty much business as usual, but I imagine Ben and Derick will be less than warm and congenial. 

[Loves2Dance]

 

I think Anna was raised much in the same way as Josh. Anna has a sweet personality but there's a childlike quality to her. She and the other girls never matured emotionally, not even a little bit. I feel very sympathetic towards Anna, she just had no chance to grow into a mature woman, she was only groomed to be a breeder.

 

I agree with this. I don't necessarily think Anna raising her children is a 'child raising a child' mentality that we see among some teenaged mother's (not all, of course, there are exceptions), but actually seeing the bedroom of Erin Bates with Chad solidified that these girls (among any of the Quiverfull bunch we've been able to witness) really haven't grown up. They remind me of the older 2 Bennett daughter's in Pride & Prejudice; with marriage, family, and babies fanatised and romanticizes to the extreme. Very damsel in distress. I don't think, on any level, that these girls were raised in a manner in which they were taught how to cope with adversity or hardship (beyond financial/budget type lessons). Anna is probably feeling very small fish in an ocean right now; and frankly, that has a lot to do with her upbringing...or lack of one, anyway. 

[Fosca]

No kids on laps?

I suspect the Duggars would say that since he now has a wife to satisfy his urges (and since he's repented and is all better now) that it's cool. It's those without proper outlets who are the problem, which is probably why the parents started trying to marry Josh off virtually as soon as they found out about the molestation.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I figure Josh is squirreled away somewhere working on another interview deal. Perhaps $$,$$$/Diane Sawyer?

I'm hoping for Oprah.

[Loves2Dance]

I'm hoping for Oprah.

Oprah put her nose in the air to them in 2006; there is no way she's touching them now!

[mbutterfly]

Given that the media won't leave celebrity children alone when they're simply going to the doctor or having a temper tantrum, I'd say Anna and her kids don't stand a chance. The second they come out of hiding, they're doomed. The only good thing is, they don't live in DC anymore or a place like Hollywood so most of the vile people will disappear quicker. 

Usually, though, if the the person who actually did the sexual assault (or whatever) comes forth, gives a straightforward press conference (not a cozy sit-down with a sympathetic tv personality), the family is not hounded by the press. They may suffer from pity and social awkwardness, but they aren't hounded especially young children. 

[Darknight]

I'm hoping for Oprah.

Yeah right then they'll blame Oprah for calling dhs

[Darknight]

Michelle said the whole family side hugs opposite gender people to not stir up sexual desires. JB side hugs his daughters. I wonder if Josh was required to only side hug his sisters. The whole no touching thing makes a lot of sense now. along with the hand sex Joshanna did while engaged.

I do kinda feel for Josh. His parents are dipshits. He needed intense therapy and real loving parents. He had a fucked up childhood with mommy and daddy making babies every year. I'm sure at times there was no food, which explains his weight gain. But then the other 90% of me don't feel any pity for him. He used his religion to try and take other people's rights away who were "sinning" all while he had his own "sins" He should feel ashamed of himself. I hope Josh steps up and get a real job. I'm guessing JB is still supporting him.

[Julia]

The thing is, though, not making excuses for Josh, but think about what was going on with his family. Jim Bob, who's a new enough politician that he still has yolk behind his ears, decides after three years in statewide office he's going to try and take out Sen. Hutchinson, part of a royal family in AR politics, and a man who apparently was a political supporter of Jim Bob's, because he apparently didn't grovel enough for Jim Bob's taste over his divorce from his wife of many years and subsequent remarriage (Hutchison was a moral values politician too).

So to hear Jim Bob tell it, he's going to spend the money he could have used to move his family into a decently-sized house where the fourteen kids would have been able to get more than a few hundred feet away from their parents' marathon procreation attempts on taking the Senator down, because God has chosen Jim Bob to defeat the bad evil man who has a family sex scandal. And Jim Bob crashed and burned, and his career in AR politics had a great big fork in it, because if you shoot at the king you better kill him, and not so much.

So now, huge family, tiny house, no money, and daddy's political career is over, even though God really wanted him in office, and why all that bad stuff? Why, clearly because of that thing Josh was doing. Up to that point it wasn't important enough to address in any serious way, but now the family has lost everything and (since it can't be that Jim Bob is a dimwitted asshole who shot himself in the foot and threw away his chances and his family's security) it's all Josh's fault because sin in the camp.

None of which is any excuse, obviously, but the kid is already troubled, has no skills or particular talent, and sooner rather than later a great big family of his own he can't support. The 'counseling' he got basically reinforced that what he did was no big deal, but he's still responsible for throwing his family into a pit that only God and TLC can dig them out of, by grace of his parents' non-stop conjugal activity, his sisters' hard work, and son and heir Josh's being the best, shiniest, most militantly judgmental righteous homophobic woman-subjugating quiverfull Duggar who ever did Duggar.

And now What Josh Did - not his parents' criminally crappy parenting, or the profoundly corrupt way they made sure that none of their children would get help, or the snake pit of bare-knuckle politics they threw him into, or his father's hubris, but what Josh did what Josh did what Josh did - has taken them down again, this time on national television. And I can't regret that he's not a more effective advocate, because I sincerely disagree with his stances on most public issues I can think of, but wow, it has to suck beyond the telling of it to be Josh.

He's not at the top of the list of people in this situation I feel pity for, or even all that close, but he actually is on it.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Julia

[3 is enough]

 

I am starting to think part of the reason they are SO focused on how Josh has changed, Josh confessed, Josh was so sorry, etc. is because JimBob & Michelle are scared that he might just start spilling any other family secrets.

Yes to this.  For years now I have thought that if Josh ran into hard times, he would do a tell-all.  To me it always seemed like he was just spouting off and towing the line because he had no choice.  Even the FRC job- they paid him big bucks so he just continued to repeat all the stuff that had been drilled into him since childhood.

 

Knowing what we know now, I would imagine the hostility towards his parents goes even deeper.  Not excusing his actions for a minute, but he is one messed up young man, and his parents have to accept that they are partly to blame.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, a reminder:

Don't speculate about whether Josh was behind further abuse, whether he was abused, who else might have abused someone else, etc.

 

We've had to remove many posts that have speculated whether he's molested his daughters etc. Please stop wondering, insinuating or posting pictures as if that's an a-ha gotcha moment. We have asked this several times. We are grateful for your understanding and cooperation.

 

Thanks!

[JenCarroll]

They remind me of the older 2 Bennett daughter's in Pride & Prejudice; with marriage, family, and babies fanatised and romanticizes to the extreme. Very damsel in distress.

Aw, that's a little harsh on Jane and Lizzie! :-)

[msblossom]

I feel bad for Anna in some ways, but in others, I feel like she's so stupid for knowing about this, before she married Smuggar, and just writing it off as nothing.

According to JB this could have easily happened to Anna with just about anyone she married who was raise in those circles -- didn't he say that he knows a lot of families who are dealing with the same problems of molestation with their children? And if we go by what Jill says, 2/3 of all families commit the same acts and even worse (cuz theirs wasn't all that bad, Joshie just got a quick feel). Sounds like a prevelant problem among the extreme fundies if we go by the wisdom of the Duggars, cuz they know stuff. So, according to their logic, Anna didn't stand much of a chance picking a husband without previous sexual experience.

[Higgins]

I mean Woody Allen is treated like a God in Hollywood with a tribute on the Oscars.....and he's one creepy, creepy dude.....

Right, like Roman Polanski.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Higgins

[CherryAmes]

I'm not going to defend Polanski or Woody Allen (far from it) but at least they both are talented in their fields and there is a reason why they are feted by their peers.  Josh Duggar on the other hand?  Not so much.  Like others I suspect he will go on the "I was a sinner and I was saved" speakers circuit.  I don't see him going on to a career in politics or anything else though where anyone but his own little circle will care about anything he has to say.

[Higgins]

I don't see the distinction. They are all molesters. The only distinction between them is that Josh was also a child at the time he committed the crime. The others were grown men preying on children.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Higgins

[msblossom]

I've been thinking about how Josh's physical appearance has aged recently. He's gone soft and doughy. Remember his reaction when Anna surprised him with the pee stick. I don't think that was rehearsed. Josh knew this was coming and he was sick with fear.

You have to wonder with Josh having gone into hiding if he's eating his feelings with take out and carbs, and pulling some kind of Rob Kardashian.

[dorcastrilling]

I in no way condone what Josh did, however I do believe he is the sum of every warped aspect of his upbringing.

I also now see his smug behavior and every word that has ever come out of his mouth as false bravado he has been hiding behind. I really do believe he thought that building that wall of arrogance around him would keep all this at bay.

Aside from JB & Michelle I feel for everyone in that family, including Josh. Oh, and Mary I am just confused about. If she really was a part of the JB machine, she can take a leap with her son and DIL.

[Betelnut]

I don't see the distinction. They are all molesters. The only distinction between them is that Josh was also a child at the time he committed the crime. The others were grown men preying on children.

The allegations against Woody Allen were never proven. Polanski was convicted and Josh has confessed. There is a big difference between all three "cases."

Probably not a valid topic on this thread anyway.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Betelnut

[GEML]

Julia - I can't help but think that Josh is always the one who destroys the family. It's never Jim Bob and Michelle. It's never the other siblings. Even if he somehow managed to turn his life around and our Jim Bob his father by becoming everything his father couldn't be with his own growing family, it wasn't enough. He's still the child who brings down the House of Jim Bob.

There is nothing worse than being the first Golden child who CONSTANTLY is a terrible disappointment to his parents. Better to be a nobody.

[Higgins]

Naked photos of his under aged step daughter found in his possession points to sexual predator to me.

[bigskygirl]

This is not lets debate the difference between Roman Polanski, Woody Allen and other known celebrity or possible  celebrity molesters and Josh Duggar thread. Take it somewhere else please. Posts talking about other molesters or debating who was worse will be hidden.

 

Do not ask why Josh may or may not have molested his other sisters. Yes, we know four sisters and another girl was molested, but we do not need to speculate on why he picked certain girls or sisters. I am sure there are thousands of forums where a person could speculate and debate this issue until the cows come home, the barn doors are closed, and the manure is cleaned out. Posts speculating or asking why Josh picked certain girls will be hidden.

 

Once again, thank you for your cooperation and patience.