Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[floridamom]

I am of the belief that "people" DO read the online commentary about this family. After all, this family and their TV show is a business and a business only for TLC, and all media who air and report on them. The company guys/gals NEED to KNOW how this family is coming across to their viewers and the public in general. Once they stop making money for the network, they are DONE and will be cancelled. Those people need to keep them in good standing with those of us who feed them through the money that the show generates. The Duggars themselves are a business too. That is how they generate most of their income these days. I have also noticed lately that issues raised on these online sites are being directly addressed and answered on the show. It's all $$$ and once that goes away, so will TLC. The Duggars will be out of luck and income from it.  Why are they getting so careless lately with their politics, etc?

There is someone or a small staff handling this family's PR, whether it be from Jim Bob and /or TLC.

I also agree that Josh and Anna must have done some rethinking and growing with their move to DC. Anna is living in the real world, Josh is interacting with WOMEN who are properly dressed as professionals themselves and may have to interact with these women as equals, (imagine that?). Anna has to see that their lifestyle of flip flops in a city, getting around with multiple children in tow, just doesn't work in all areas of the country. How can we all live like they do when we have to take an elevator up to our fifth floor apartments? How will you stack the kids in a 2 bedroom apt etc? They also will see that women who wear shorts are NOT all tramps, hussies and atheists, alcoholics and exotic dancers. They must have some,, even if small, internal dialogue going on there and are grappling with these issues.

[skittle223]

They also will see that women who wear shorts are NOT all tramps, hussies and atheists, alcoholics and exotic dancers. They must have some,, even if small, internal dialogue going on there and are grappling with these issues.

As an atheist I find it slightly insulting to be thrown in there with hussies and tramps.

[TobyBelle]

Sean Whatshisname, the show's producer, admitted to reading the TWoP 19KaC forums.  And a lot of criticisms brought up on that board were basically directly addressed.  Seemed like a bit of a coincidence.

There's a part of me that believes they do read the boards and do things just to spite the viewers such as Jill always saying she's engaged to Derick Dillard. You would think they would cut that out by now since everyone has been complaining, but now it seems like they intensified it.

[Fuzzysox]

I looked up their wedding pictures tody because I had forgotten what they wore and I have to say that Anna's bridemaid dresses and her wedding dress were pretty. They fit the modesty mode and they all looked coordinated unlike Jill's hobo chic bridemaid dress mess.

[Adeejay]

Let's compare the "oh, we are going to be a day late" Duggars with Mr Keller's outright joy upon seeing where his daughter was going to be living.

I am willing to bet the Duggars won't be as inconsiderate with Jill and her spouse as they are with Josh and his.  Case in point, Josh's starter home was one step above a hovel, but Jill gets a mini mansion.  Mr. Keller’s delight while touring Anna’s home, complete with “four bathrooms – four” made me tear up.  I wouldn’t want Michelle and Jim Bob as in-laws, but marrying a Duggar seems to have some perks.

[ChicksDigScars]

Anna is growing on me. Her comments about enjoying the children she has were a refreshing change to J'Chelle's Very Special Uterus. What a novel concept--have children, even a lot of them, but take the time to enjoy them.

 

I wanted to HIGH FIVE Anna through the TV set when she said that. As opposed to her mother-in-law who handed her own children off to their older siblings to raise, so she could start working on the next baby. I'm sure she didn't mean it to be, but it was the BEST BURN EVER. Talk that, Mullet!

 

I wonder if the producers knew exactly what they were doing when they edited and kept that exchange in. More HIGH FIVES.

[PinkSprinkles]

The house JoshAnna were given wasn't that bad, in my opinion. It was the perfect size for a newlywed couple and nicely maintained. It also belonged to Mary before she moved in with the family at the TTH so I can't imagine she would offer her home if it was run-down and uninhabitable. 

 

The house Dill was given was excessive. I'm a fairly newlywed looking into buying a home and Mr. Sprinkles and I aren't even looking at 4,000 sq. ft homes (as if we could afford one at this point anyway, lol). I know Jill doesn't work and has seemingly nothing to occupy herself until her baby is born, but the upkeep of a house that big is difficult and will only get harder with a baby in the mix. 

[GEML]

I didn't have a problem with the first house Josh and Anna lived in, but it was clear that they had outgrown it. Sure, JB and Michelle could yammer away about cramming everyone in the tiny homes pre-TTH, but I don't think that experience was very pleasant for any of their children. And Josh leaving the moment he could provide a better life for his children was the first sign that, "Hey, I don't have to do things your way ."

For control freaks like JB and Michelle, that was a deafening message.

[trimthatfat]

The house JoshAnna were given wasn't that bad, in my opinion. It was the perfect size for a newlywed couple and nicely maintained. It also belonged to Mary before she moved in with the family at the TTH so I can't imagine she would offer her home if it was run-down and uninhabitable. 

 

The house Dill was given was excessive. I'm a fairly newlywed looking into buying a home and Mr. Sprinkles and I aren't even looking at 4,000 sq. ft homes (as if we could afford one at this point anyway, lol). I know Jill doesn't work and has seemingly nothing to occupy herself until her baby is born, but the upkeep of a house that big is difficult and will only get harder with a baby in the mix. 

 

ITA. From what I remember of Josh and Anna's first house, it looked like it was a comfortable home for a small family. It was a good 'starter' home. Jill and Derick's home is beautiful, but maintaining it is probably a pain in the ass. I personally hate carpet so I don't have it in my home. I love doing household chores (I'm weird), but I hate vacuuming with a passion. As much as Jill welcomes family into the home, and as her child starts to learn how to crawl/walk, those floors are going to take a beating.

 

Also, maybe I didn't hear correctly, but didn't JB say Jill and Derick could stay in the home until it sells? I would hate to live in a home with that kind of day-to-day uncertainty, particularly if I were pregnant. At least Josh and Anna had a permanent home that they left on their own terms.

[ginger90]

Does anyone know if Josh and Anna are still in the house we saw them move to?

[Temperance]

I don't know if they read the boards, but I definitely think they read bigger articles like the one Jezebel ran about the family being a cult. I have little to back that up, except the article seemed to get serious foot traffic. This article came out before any courtship was announced, but after Josh was married and Michelle stopped having kids. 

As for Anna, her different attitudes towards kids may also have to do with her experience from her own family as well as the greater interest living near DC.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Temperance

[ghoulina]

Sean Whatshisname, the show's producer, admitted to reading the TWoP 19KaC forums.  And a lot of criticisms brought up on that board were basically directly addressed.  Seemed like a bit of a coincidence.

 

Oh yes, that's where all those internet FU moments come from. Last season (ugh, I hate the word "season" now because of Michelle) we were subjected to seeing Michelle "bonding" with various kids at various times. I totally believe that storyline was derived from producers reading about how little we think Michelle is involved with her kids. There are a million more examples, but yea - I think they read the boards. 

 

In fact, the way I found TWOP was Googling something about the Duggars. It was the first match that came up. So if they were ever just Googling themselves to see what people are saying, there is a good chance the stuff we're saying might get read. 

[NausetGirl]

Picture of the family visiting Smuggar at work     http://instagram.com/p/qAPfscGrZH/

 

[Turning on sarcasm font]... Wow - the "Executive Director" gets to wear polo shirts and [what looks like] jeans to work.  He must meet a lot of high-level professionals all day long.  What an impact he's making.

[GEML]

Actually, my husband is a VP and he dresses like that most days to go into work.  So does the CEO of his Fortune 100 Company.  They are, so to speak, several "pay grades" above our young Mr. Duggar.   The only time you wear the Brooks Brothers suits and ties (which hang in all men's closets like rows of paper dolls) is if you are meeting members of Congress or international delegation type events.  But most of the time, DC can be a pretty dress casual place.  We aren't New York, and style isn't our thing.  Although even by DC, that's particularly unstylish!  ;)

And I've made the argument all along that Anna's family, having been involved in prison ministry is going to be part of a world that most of us, Duggars included cannot truly grasp.  If you're anti-ministry for being anti-ministry, then there's that.  But people who go into prison ministry see the lowest of the low of humanity, and I've never known anyone who went in it that didn't come out of it with a true compassion for humanity in a way that most Christians who prattle on about family values and all the rest of it can only skim the barest surface of.

[galax-arena]

And I've made the argument all along that Anna's family,

Now I’m curious. Does Anna’s family have a blogging platform similar to the Seewalds’?

[floridamom]

skittle223: No insult intended on my part; the Duggars lump anyone who is different from their beliefs in this group. I hope my point was made. No offense to you.

[ghoulina]

But people who go into prison ministry see the lowest of the low of humanity, and I've never known anyone who went in it that didn't come out of it with a true compassion for humanity in a way that most Christians who prattle on about family values and all the rest of it can only skim the barest surface of.

 

I really do see genuine compassion in Anna. I feel like with Michelle and Boob (maybe some of the kids, but not all) they do things like going on mission trips because they think it's what they're supposed to do. But I don't think they truly have the heart for it. Whereas with Anna, I see her truly caring. One scene that really stood out to me was when they were visiting that orphanage in China (I believe it was China? Correct me if I'm wrong), and Anna got super emotional when they had to leave. There I saw someone who truly displayed the compassion and empathy Christians are supposed to have. Michelle and Boob just want to take the pictures and LOOK like good, giving Christians. I don't think they truly live it.

[floridamom]

Yes, I remember Mr. Kellar's delight in seeing the large home that Anna was living in. It was a real moment from a father and mother who were truly happy for their daughter. It made me happy to see her father's joy. He also loves his grandchildren and tries to show it too,, as does Anna's mother, who is naturally painfully shy and I'm sure isn't comfortable being on camera. Can't fault her for being herself. I haven't yet, to date, seen Michelle and/or Jim Bob in a sincere candid moment with any of their children.

[maraleia]

I like the fact that Kynzie was in a skirt that doesn't cover up her legs and Michael was in shorts in that pic. I still hate their socially conservative stances on various issues but Josh and Anna, as they say, dodged a bullet by getting out of NW Arkansas.

[Temperance]

Anna and her older sister Priscilla just made a statement, but I'm not sure they have a blogging platform.

[mimionthebeach]

Renowned marriage experts, all.

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/19.kids.and.counting.anna.duggar.jessa.duggar.priscilla.waller.courtship.marriage/41383.htm

 

ETA that I watched that whole painful video. Priscilla is a force! How can she keep talking like that for so long? Even Anna was looking like she was running out of patience. I am in awe of a god who cares to micro-manage so many little lives. No offense intended, just the view from the outside.

Edited October 7, 2014 by mimionthebeach

[galax-arena]

We need to focus on this is God's day and we need to bring him glory.

Does it count if you keep shouting “oh God, oh God!” on your wedding night?

 

ETA: Sorry. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by galax-arena

[ghoulina]

I can't stop laughing at the still image for that video - Priscilla looks like she's either in labor or trying to take a crap. Yes, I realize I am 8-years-old. 

[mbutterfly]

I looked up their wedding pictures tody because I had forgotten what they wore and I have to say that Anna's bridemaid dresses and her wedding dress were pretty. They fit the modesty mode and they all looked coordinated unlike Jill's hobo chic bridemaid dress mess.

I simply cannot fathom a reason why they didn't have their dresses made by a seamstress who is professionally adept with the modesty requirements. And I should think it would be a perfect occupation for a Gothard woman. 

I wanted to HIGH FIVE Anna through the TV set when she said that. As opposed to her mother-in-law who handed her own children off to their older siblings to raise, so she could start working on the next baby. I'm sure she didn't mean it to be, but it was the BEST BURN EVER. Talk that, Mullet!

 

I wonder if the producers knew exactly what they were doing when they edited and kept that exchange in. More HIGH FIVES.

I'd bet the farm on it. 

[NausetGirl]

I don't think being on "Duggar Time" is necessarily entirely a result of whatever their school setup is, but more just an indicator of how they think they're special snowflakes and no one should really mind if they're late. They really just don't think it's a big deal. "Hey, we have 19 kids! Of course we're going to be late". Like they should get a pass. When, in reality. having that many kids should ensure they get ready on time - they have so many more helpers than most people.

 

Our school time is very scheduled, but I know others who just do it whenever. And they're still on time to appointments, meetings with people, etc. Why? Because they're not fucking RUDE. 

 

There could be a lot of truth in this.  I have a lot of couple-friends with kids who think they should be cut more time because of the kids.  Even my brother and SIL who only have two kids, three years apart.  They were always the last to arrive at everything, sometimes on time, usually not.  Even now that the kids are in college but still living at home, the vibe that comes across is always, "Well it's OK for us to be late - we have kids..."  I didn't swallow it when they were toddlers and I really can't accept it now. Stop using them as YOUR excuses.

[NausetGirl]

There have been rumors he's doing the online law courses through Trinity. It's by no means an accredited law school, but should he actually pass the bar, he will be an attorney, no matter how some of feel about the inadequacy of his education. (And I feel it is tremendously inadequate and am skeptical that he will pass any time soon, but hey, things do happen...)

 

I still can't seeing him actually doing the work involved.  He may have started but I doubt he'll even get halfway through.  I can't even see him writing a term paper.  And passing the bar? That's not a piece of cake in any state - even Arkansas!  IMO, Josh said "I want to be an attorney" long ago, at 15 or 16 maybe.  He might have said it as a firstborn still trying to please his parents - something they'd want to hear.  And definitely when he really had no clue as to what an attorney really did or how much work was involved in becoming one.  Just like a child who loves building Lego houses and says "I want to be an architect..."

[galax-arena]

I think maybe in the past, Josh might have stood a chance. He had potential. But he's been spoiled by years of 19 Kids and the perks that come with that. It's made him lazy. I really don't think he has the work ethic or mental discipline to put his nose to the grindstone and pass the bar. 

 

Then again, stranger things have happened. 

[lottiedottie]

Renowned marriage experts, all.

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/19.kids.and.counting.anna.duggar.jessa.duggar.priscilla.waller.courtship.marriage/41383.htm

 

ETA that I watched that whole painful video. Priscilla is a force! How can she keep talking like that for so long? Even Anna was looking like she was running out of patience. I am in awe of a god who cares to micro-manage so many little lives. No offense intended, just the view from the outside.

She looks insane.

[bigskygirl]

I am trying to figure out if Anna and her sister share the same brain in the video. Seriously... Bad, bad American women for thinking our wedding day is about us and not Jesus.  We deserve to rot in you know where.

[GEML]

Wow- Priscilla looks and sounds absolutely awful. She looks 10 years older than she is, and sounds 20 years younger.

[floridamom]

I'm confused about Anna. I don't know how TLC is playing with the real timeline here as they edit, paste together episodes and air them, but she seems to "bloat up and down". In many episodes and earlier pictures, she looked pregnant, then later on she didn't look pregnant. Last night at the race, YES, she looked pregnant and when they were making that stupid mobile, she looked pregnant. Hence, that dumb bulky scarf draped around her chest. Anyone else notice this out of sequence body issue with Anna?

[Catlyn]

I'm an attorney.  To the best of my knowledge, none of the non-degree-requiring law schools are accredited by the American Bar Association. (I didn't deal with this because I went to an accredited law school.) There supposedly are states that allow individuals to take a bar exam after graduating from a non-approved law program. I'm not certain which states those are because the states of which I am a member of the bar (Utah, California, and D.C.) required completion of an ABA-approved program.  Perhaps Josh plans to complete his non-accredited online program, then take the bar exam in a state not requiring an undergrad degree and offering  a test so easy that a literal moron could pass it. The District of Columbia will grant bar membership status to anyone having passed and having been accepted into membership in any state bar. That's probably what josh is looking for -- D.C. bar membership status.

 Edited by jilliannatalia, Yest. 3:49 am

Thank you for the explanation, Jilliannatalia. It explains a lot of litigation and outcomes that didn't make sense at first. Yes, I can totally see Smuggar do this.

[Ljohnson1987]

Happy 5th birthday Kynzie! Enjoy your day. Hopefully you don't have to wait until Christmas to celebrate with Josie and Jordyn.

[ChicksDigScars]

Wow- Priscilla looks and sounds absolutely awful. She looks 10 years older than she is, and sounds 20 years younger.

 

Maybe that's what happens when you finally realize that you're a little too FEMALE for your husband's taste?  

[trimthatfat]

Renowned marriage experts, all.

 

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/19.kids.and.counting.anna.duggar.jessa.duggar.priscilla.waller.courtship.marriage/41383.htm

 

ETA that I watched that whole painful video. Priscilla is a force! How can she keep talking like that for so long? Even Anna was looking like she was running out of patience. I am in awe of a god who cares to micro-manage so many little lives. No offense intended, just the view from the outside.

 

OMG...I can't really find the words for this. I kept waiting for her to take a breath and stop talking. I am not too familiar with Priscilla outside of the show, so I didn't realize she was quite so...intense?

 

Not to nit-pick, but her posture is terrible. I wish she'd sit up straight while talking..

Edited October 10, 2014 by trimthatfat

[truthtalk2014]

Oh WOW!  Mac is in a costume!  

 

http://instagram.com/p/t5-dzwmrdz/?modal=true

 

So happy for her.  That was one of my favorite things as a child- and even now- dressing up in costumes and going trick or treating.  

 

I'm sure she won't be allowed to participate in the evil satanic custom of trick or treating (gag me) but I think Anna is on the right track allowing her to have a costume that is not Mary Magdalene.  

 

Now, I want to see Michael as a pirate!

Edited October 10, 2014 by truthtalk2014

[WasntMe]

I'm an attorney.  To the best of my knowledge, none of the non-degree-requiring law schools are accredited by the American Bar Association. (I didn't deal with this because I went to an accredited law school.) There supposedly are states that allow individuals to take a bar exam after graduating from a non-approved law program. I'm not certain which states those are because the states of which I am a member of the bar (Utah, California, and D.C.) required completion of an ABA-approved program.  Perhaps Josh plans to complete his non-accredited online program, then take the bar exam in a state not requiring an undergrad degree and offering  a test so easy that a literal moron could pass it. The District of Columbia will grant bar membership status to anyone having passed and having been accepted into membership in any state bar. That's probably what josh is looking for -- D.C. bar membership status.

Dunno about Arkansas, but in Tennessee there is one non-ABA accredited law school, and if you graduate you CAN sit for the Tennessee bar.  At one point I looked into a friend who had done so moving to another state (Colorado) and he could get a CO license if he 1) practiced for 5 years in Tennessee and 2) passed the CO Bar Exam.  This is different from someone who graduates from an accredited law school who can get a CO license without taking the Bar Exam after 5 years' practice.

[Darknight]

Honestly what law firm or person would hire a Duggar as anything especially a lawyer. It's bad enough there are lawyers who went to real school and can't even find jobs because it's competitive

[floridamom]

IMO, it is an insult to the legitimate state bar association members if any firm hires Josh as an associate. All lawyers would be unwilling to take the risk of a grievance being filed against Josh by a client who has had an unsatisfactory outcome regarding their case. Josh's only alternative, if he can sneak through the bar exam, would be to open a solo private practice which would mean that Daddy would have to set him up and that he probably could/would only handle fundy client issues. Legal representation is NOT a joke it is a highly specialized field which takes on a lot of possible liability on the lawyer's part. Josh shouldn't play with this and become a pseudo lawyer.

[GEML]

He will basically do what other attorney do - he will apprentice under other attorneys for years. There are a lot of conservative Christian organizations such as the one he works with that are fine for him to apprentice with. Say he passes a bar and is admitted in DC by the time he's 32. If he does serious legal work in one of these organizations, by the time he's 45 he's a real attorney, no matter how he started out. It may only be in one area, and he may not be a great attorney, but he's as real an attorney as my husband is who went along the traditional route.

Again, I'm not saying that I support anything that Josh is doing - not the places where he works or the way he would go about getting the credentials assuming he would go this route. I'm just saying that I can't sit here and say in good conscience that any of it is prima facia dishonorable or less real than what dozens of other people I know are doing just because I personally disagree with it.

[floridamom]

GEML, and as a spouse of an attorney for many years myself, both you and I personally know what being a member of the Bar means. Josh will take on a real risk at being "filed on with a grievance" if he doesn't know what he is doing. There are many paralegals out there who have had more training than Josh will ever have and law clerks who also are more educated in that area. I doubt he will ever work under his own bar card. Just another example, in my mind, of how unofficially this family does everything and that they invent their own training...

[alt0233]

My guess is that Josh will never practice courtroom law. If he's seeking a JD it's more as a credential than as something he will actively practice - there are plenty of jobs (especially in politics) that will hire both JD and non-JDs, and pay the JDs more. My sister has a law degree but has no interest in being in a courtroom - many of the jobs she applied for had a JD in the "preferred" qualifications, but weren't required to apply. The fact that she had one made her more competitive.

[GEML]

Exactly. And keep in mind he may not even have a JD under certain circumstances, but would be Joshua Duggar, Esquire. But he would be capable to be part of a think tank/legal team especially in the area of fundraising which I think will always be Josh's specialty. But if he wants to stay in DC he will need some kind of credential to advance. Passing the bar is one way to go, but not the only way. If they move to Va, I'll guess he's planning on a more traditional route through Va's excellent state schools (starting with perhaps George Mason or community college where he could go at night.) MD's are good too, but not as numerous or quite as cheap.

Edited October 11, 2014 by GEML

[Barb23]

Mac looked so cute in her dress/costume - good for her. She needed some play high heels to go along with her outfit.

I loved seeing her play hopscotch. That was a favorite game for me & my best friend growing up. Too bad it looks like she's not playing it with a friend. Part of the fun was drawing the diagram & finding the perfect stone to use.

[GEML]

I will say as someone who lives in a similar DC suburb, it's not easy to have casual friends. Friends come from preschools and scheduled activities that often take place outside a person's home. My daughter is the same age as Michael and had been to two home birthdays, for instance - all others have been held somewhere else. And playing with kids in your street or neighborhood is almost unheard of. Not because there's anything wrong with the kids, just that both of you probably have somewhere else you have to be.

[floridamom]

I agree with you, GEML. You have to take your kids out of the home to make some friends. I was a stay at home mom in Florida and I took my son to the hospital kids play group twice a week, then enrolled him in a mothers day out program AT OUR CHURCH, for heaven's sake! Can't they even do that? I'm sure DC and Arkansas have that available. It's a shame that Mac's only friends are her aunts; and siblings who are younger than she is; just no stimulation there, just too self contained. My kids met some really nice friends there and a small social life opened up for them through these things. And now that they are 26 and 23 years old, they haven't lost their souls yet...thank God. It can be done, folks, someone really needs to speak to them about what they are doing to their kids.

[ghoulina]

Well, we don't know for sure that Anna doesn't take the kids to play groups or that they haven't made little friends. Maybe they don't want to be filmed. 

[GEML]

No we don't - I was just commenting on pictures that we see of them playing at home. Those are always by themselves. But so are my daughters, but it really doesn't mean anything regarding friends.

[PityFree]

It depends how closely they follow Gothard, as he discourages friendships outside the family unit.

[starfire]

It depends how closely they follow Gothard, as he discourages friendships outside the family unit.

Sounds like if you follow Gothard, you can't truly be following Jesus.