Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[xtwheeler]

What is so ironic to me is that Josh's hang-ups seem to be that he wants love, appreciation, approval, with a fair helping of financial independence earned the laziest way possible. The ironic part is that he would receive all those things in abundance if he came clean, divorced the rest if the Duggar circus, and wrote a scathing tell-all. He would get from the public the support and ego-strokig he so desperately craves from his family. If he would do the exact opposite of what he is doing (repeatedly, strictly trying to force himself to better fit into his parents' fucked up cult) he would probably get all the things he wants. He would be wealthy (book advance), celebrated by the mainstream media and population, and wielding an incredible amount of power to blow Gothard and the rest of the family/cult totally out of the water.

If instead of doubling down on these morally, spiritually bankrupt philosophies that have failed repeatedly, he made a drastic 180, he'd be so much better off. He'd win more fame, more money, and tons of respect for standing up and indicting his upbringing.

[graefin]

I don't think that it ever occurred to JB and J'chelle that there children would develop some of the same problems as child actors (because they are such wonderful "Godly" parents,and have raised their children so well), but I think that all of the adult children have shown signs of having the same sorts of issues: we've heard that Jill and Jessa "want to remain in the public eye," but I think that this is affecting more of the children than just those two -- we're only hearing from the ones with social media accounts. Every public utterance from anyone in the family since May has absolutely reeked of desperation to stay on television. I don't think it's just the money, either, I think that they are all desperate for the attention.

This. I think that it's so easy to focus on the fucked-up religious part of their upbringing that we forget the fucked-up growing up on television aspect of the equation. Together = apparent disaster.

[Defrauder]

I can't believe they think that sending Josh to a work camp is going to fix him.  They all work for RU.  They are not allowed to talk about the problems that led them there.  Why are the Duggars such stupid followers?  I can probably sell them the Brooklyn Bridge if I wanted to.  What's wrong with Josh talking to a Licensed Clinical Social Worker for instance?  Are they really that afraid that a licensed counselor would try to take his religion away from him and suddenly undo 27 years of Gothard brainwashing?  Do they think a licensed counselor would tell him not to be a christian or something?  Why are they so stupid?  Just why? There is zero possibility of Josh getting help at this place.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Defrauder

[GeeGolly]

Could Alice and the family source be the original laundry lady who rescued Michelle after her breakdown?

[kokapetl]

Alice sounds like a fellow church goer.

[MrsMommy]

Me, too. I even believe the part where he tried to be aggressive and rough. The part I absolutely don't believe is where she says it's the scariest thing that ever happened to her. Please. That's pure embellishment, in my opinion. And a stupid embellishment at that, especially for someone who's lived on the seamy side of things. Not only is Josh a 200-pound weakling but he's a scared, blustering child who almost certainly could be easily intimidated by any woman who stood up for herself for half a minute. In the sex business, you're going to run across many many men with aggressive feelings toward women and who seek you out because they intend to act on them. Josh would have been far from the first. And there's no way that that hide-behind-daddy's-skirts, cry-when-he-leaves-momma 20-something wanna-be-lawyer lard-ass was the scariest she ever saw, by a long shot. She wants to sell newspapers, so she embroidered.

I cam only speak personally but if Josh tried to make his way into my bed o could honestly say (besides having my first child) that would be the scariest thing ever. Just imagine laying in bed and seeing a naked joshy making his way to lay on top of you *gasp

[Rancide]

Josh proves that genetics is a crapshoot too.

 

Or, not really.

[Julia]

What is so ironic to me is that Josh's hang-ups seem to be that he wants love, appreciation, approval, with a fair helping of financial independence earned the laziest way possible. The ironic part is that he would receive all those things in abundance if he came clean, divorced the rest if the Duggar circus, and wrote a scathing tell-all. He would get from the public the support and ego-strokig he so desperately craves from his family. If he would do the exact opposite of what he is doing (repeatedly, strictly trying to force himself to better fit into his parents' fucked up cult) he would probably get all the things he wants. He would be wealthy (book advance), celebrated by the mainstream media and population, and wielding an incredible amount of power to blow Gothard and the rest of the family/cult totally out of the water.

If instead of doubling down on these morally, spiritually bankrupt philosophies that have failed repeatedly, he made a drastic 180, he'd be so much better off. He'd win more fame, more money, and tons of respect for standing up and indicting his upbringing.

 

But who would he sell it to? Say he found someone literate to write Duggared In: My Life at the Crossroads Where Shadowy Billionaires, Religious Fanaticism, Cable Television and the Republican Party Meet. Could they find a publishing company that doesn't either live in that space (their current publisher is owned by Rupert Murdoch) or rely on NCLB contracts? And even if they did, I doubt they'd be able to get it into WalMarts any time soon.

[Churchhoney]

I don't think Josh understands that he is 27 years old, an adult. He can walk out of there anytime he wants. He is about 3-4 blocks away from a bus stop. He is also about 2 blocks away from a fantastic restaurant! He has his own money and can go wherever he wants. I just can't feel sorry for him. He allows JB to run his life.

 

 

The thing is, it takes a lot of guts and, actually, actively used brains to leave. You have to have some conviction that your way is right for you and theirs is wrong, some confidence that you can take care of yourself and make a living on your own, and the courage to face a life that lacks both the material comforts you're used to and the only social milieu you've ever known at all. I don't think Josh is brave or strong, I'm sure he doesn't think and I highly doubt he's ever prepared himself in any way to stand fully on his own. And his parents certainly haven't prepared him for any of that either.

 

He can be cocky as hell when he's spouting Duggar/Gothard/FRC groupthink hatred; he can be Mr. Bravado when he's "hosting" a stupid TLC special well inside the fortress Duggar -- and those are the things he's always gotten family and social-circle applause for. Otherwise, he's a weepy, clinging, lazy baby without a thought in his dim head, as far as I can see. It'll take something pretty major to dislodge him from the Duggar bosom, I expect. Not least because, once dislodged, where's he gonna go? Does he have any other social circle who will take him in? Is there an educational institution or an employment venue that he'd fit well into and likely be easily accepted by? I don't know what they would be. And neither does he. If he walks away, he's going to have to step, utterly unaided, into an indeterminate future. Without the requisite guts and brains, it'll take something explosive to push him into something that risky, I believe.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

Could Alice and the family source be the original laundry lady who rescued Michelle after her breakdown?

 

Oh, interesting thought. That's somebody who actually would have been inside the house -- and had an up-close view of the dirty laundry!

[GeeGolly]

Oh, interesting thought. That's somebody who actually would have been inside the house -- and had an up-close view of the dirty laundry!

Literally & figuratively.

[Churchhoney]

I cam only speak personally but if Josh tried to make his way into my bed o could honestly say (besides having my first child) that would be the scariest thing ever. Just imagine laying in bed and seeing a naked joshy making his way to lay on top of you *gasp

 

Well, in that sense, absolutely!

 

(In the sense of -- most violent, malevolent and strongest man ever to attack me, from the point of view of a professional sex worker -- I'm still saying absolutely not, though. Still sure that any sex worker of that woman's ilk will have encountered a few violent, angy woman-haters with back and arm strength that would leave Trapeze Joshie in the dust. Pretty sure they'd be considerably scarier.)

Or, not really.

 

Jana and John David may be proof of the genetics crapshoot, though. They seem to actually work during the day.

[OhioMom]

I don't know....I did see that tampons were allowed and I would think that Gothardism wouldn't be down with the cotton soldiers because I'm sure they think it somehow besmirches the virtue of those who must keep sweet.

 

They frown so much on music, it makes me wonder if Gothard lost a girl friend to Elvis or something.....

So...there was actually a section where they felt the need to say this? Probably because they couldn't come up with a way to finish this sentence: "Tampons are not permitted because ________________" without sounding insane, or stirring up lustful (to them) thoughts.

[Satchels of gold]

Could Alice and the family source be the original laundry lady who rescued Michelle after her breakdown?

That can't be because God sent that women, don't you remember God answered her prayers when she was having her breakdown (or breakthrough depending on your view) . Please please let "Alice "be this women. It would just be so fitting in so many ways.

[JennyMominFL]

I cam only speak personally but if Josh tried to make his way into my bed o could honestly say (besides having my first child) that would be the scariest thing ever. Just imagine laying in bed and seeing a naked joshy making his way to lay on top of you *gasp

Why are you doing this to me?

[CofCinci]

Good for this lawyer:

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/08/27/lawyers-pro-bono-anna-duggar/32482627/

She'll not do it, but it does make me happy that people do want to help her get out of this situation.

Oh please. What an opportunitist. He doesn't want to help Anna -- he wants free national publicity.

[NextIteration]

Good for this lawyer:

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/08/27/lawyers-pro-bono-anna-duggar/32482627/

She'll not do it, but it does make me happy that people do want to help her get out of this situation. 

 

I am sure that many would offer their services.

 

About condoms and hookers, regardless of birth control and STD testing proof, HPV and Herpes are not always prevented by condom use and Herpes is very dangerous to a baby being born.

 

Sex without the consequence of babies - couldn't Josh have sneaked off and gotten a vasectomy?

Edited August 28, 2015 by NextIteration

[Defrauder]

Could Alice and the family source be the original laundry lady who rescued Michelle after her breakdown?

That would be great!  The laundry lady God sent to spill the dirt on the Duggars.  God works in mysterious ways alright. 

[Anne Elk]

The thing is, it takes a lot of guts and, actually, actively used brains to leave. You have to have some conviction that your way is right for you and theirs is wrong, some confidence that you can take care of yourself and make a living on your own, and the courage to face a life that lacks both the material comforts you're used to and the only social milieu you've ever known at all. I don't think Josh is brave or strong, I'm sure he doesn't think and I highly doubt he's ever prepared himself in any way to stand fully on his own. And his parents certainly haven't prepared him for any of that either.

 

He can be cocky as hell when he's spouting Duggar/Gothard/FRC groupthink hatred; he can be Mr. Bravado when he's "hosting" a stupid TLC special well inside the fortress Duggar -- and those are the things he's always gotten family and social-circle applause for. Otherwise, he's a weepy, clinging, lazy baby without a thought in his dim head, as far as I can see. It'll take something pretty major to dislodge him from the Duggar bosom, I expect. Not least because, once dislodged, where's he gonna go? Does he have any other social circle who will take him in? Is there an educational institution or an employment venue that he'd fit well into and likely be easily accepted by? I don't know what they would be. And neither does he. If he walks away, he's going to have to step, utterly unaided, into an indeterminate future. Without the requisite guts and brains, it'll take something explosive to push him into something that risky, I believe.

 

He's already lost his job, he's cost them their TV show, he's put his marriage in jeopardy, he's destroyed his entire family's reputation. What could possibly happen to him that is worse than what's already happened? I don't think Josh is brave either, but I think "something explosive" is exactly what's going on right now.

 

Josh has been out in the world and experienced living on his own, no matter how sheltered he was. He had a taste of freedom. Now he's back in Jesus Labor Camp. I doubt he went voluntarily -- they're practically holding his wife and kids hostage. Even if he returns to Jim Bob Land a changed man, he's never going to have a minute of freedom ever again. I think that just might be enough to push him out the door.

[Isthisok]

Bleh. I can't even imagine Josh putting his *mouth* anywhere. Oh god pass the brain bleach.

Right? His AM profile saying he liked to give and receive oral sex... Oh god. I mean, I know Josh likes to eat, but in my brain that's limited to giant burritos and Jesus chicken.

[galax-arena]

I really don't want to imagine Josh going down on anyone... I hate you guys. 

[Isthisok]

Could Alice and the family source be the original laundry lady who rescued Michelle after her breakdown?

How amazing would that be? Alice, like the housekeeper on The Brady Bunch.

[TheFinalRose]

But who would he sell it to? Say he found someone literate to write Duggared In: My Life at the Crossroads Where Shadowy Billionaires, Religious Fanaticism, Cable Television and the Republican Party Meet. Could they find a publishing company that doesn't either live in that space (their current publisher is owned by Rupert Murdoch) or rely on NCLB contracts? And even if they did, I doubt they'd be able to get it into WalMarts any time soon.

 

 

Oh the publishing industry would slap a five million dollar contract on the table for Joshie-poo to relate all the lurid details to a ghost writer in a second. These are, after all, the same folks who took an old, draft manuscript from poor half-blind Harper Lee's safe deposit box and published it with just a quick once-over. The same guys who let EL James just alter Fifty Shades of Gray a little bit, repackaging it from Christian"s perspective, and sold it as Grey.  They are desperate for those bestsellers and I think Josh's story would sell, sell, sell. Both Harper Lee's book and EL James' book had quick turnaround times.  The problem is, how does a publisher get in touch with Joshie now to make him the offer? Send an owl?  

 

 

The thing is, it takes a lot of guts and, actually, actively used brains to leave.

 

 

 

I think if you are a thoughtful mature person this is true. At the same time, there are a whole bunch of impulsive yahoos in the world who act without thinking. I think Josh is somewhere in the middle, he's going to do the most comfortable thing at the moment. So if Monday night it meant not resisting JimBoob's plan to fly him to Rockford, that's what he does.  He'll stick around there until he's starving, or really bored or can't get any of the women to lie with him, and then he's out of there.  If there is a literary agent who can get in touch with him and make him an offer for his story, I could see him with the dollar signs in his eyes, thinking he doesn't need his family anymore.  There's a reason why they call it F-you money...financial independence drives a lot of actions.  

[Darknight]

But isn't that the whole idea behind no education? Josh is totally enmeshed with his father. It is an unhealthy, co-dependent relationship, but this is what they look like. Josh has no independent personhood of his own. Josh has to do as daddy says, or else he is just a loser with nothing going for him. Josh has no education and no real work skills. How can he support four kids without the help of his father? The answer is that he can't; he is totally trapped with no way out but to "please" his father. Wow, well it took a week but damn if I am not coming around to feeling a bit sorry for this little turd. Josh himself knew he was not cut out for all this, so why did his parents force him? Was it really worth it?

Josh can grow a fucking pair and go out a find a real job and get a real education. But nope he's too fucking lazy. Plenty of former fundies had nothing to work with and had to start from scratch but they made a living and supported themselves.

[Darknight]

I can't believe they think that sending Josh to a work camp is going to fix him. They all work for RU. They are not allowed to talk about the problems that led them there. Why are the Duggars such stupid followers? I can probably sell them the Brooklyn Bridge if I wanted to. What's wrong with Josh talking to a Licensed Clinical Social Worker for instance? Are they really that afraid that a licensed counselor would try to take his religion away from him and suddenly undo 27 years of Gothard brainwashing? Do they think a licensed counselor would tell him not to be a christian or something? Why are they so stupid? Just why? There is zero possibility of Josh getting help at this place.

Because that means admitting that he has a problem. That growing up fundie didn't do shit to prevent this. Going to a real therapist means JimChelle failed as parents. The goal of gothard is to protect from ungodly influences. Going to a real therapist might make Josh look back on his life and see the holes in it. Then he might influence the young ones. Which means Jim Bob can't have his own godly army

[Defrauder]

How amazing would that be? Alice, like the housekeeper on The Brady Bunch.

LOL.  Remember the mini-skirts Marcia and Jan used to wear?  I am sure the Duggars are not allowed to watch old Brady episodes.  Remembering Alice wearing a uniform and calling Mike and Carol - Mr. and Mrs. Brady all of the time. Classic.  

[floridamom]

I doubt that "Alice" was the laundry lady because that lady seemed to be one of them and liked Michelle and the family so much...she also continued to do the laundry for some time after that as she stated she loved doing it. This poster, whoever he/she is or was doesn't like this family very much and just "told it like it was AND IS".

[kokapetl]

LOL. Remember the mini-skirts Marcia and Jan used to wear? I am sure the Duggars are not allowed to watch old Brady episodes. Remembering Alice wearing a uniform and calling Mike and Carol - Mr. and Mrs. Brady all of the time. Classic.

And Alice too. Josh's ideal woman:

[Julia]

I doubt that "Alice" was the laundry lady because that lady seemed to be one of them and liked Michelle and the family so much...she also continued to do the laundry for some time after that as she stated she loved doing it. This poster, whoever he/she is or was doesn't like this family very much and just "told it like it was AND IS".

 

I kinda wonder about that. I don't think a lot of people are going to volunteer to do the stoop labor for a family with money coming in out of love. I think Michelle just doesn't want to acknowledge that she was paying for help with the housekeeping.

[Fuzzysox]

This. I think that it's so easy to focus on the fucked-up religious part of their upbringing that we forget the fucked-up growing up on television aspect of the equation. Together = apparent disaster.

Someday I hope one of my twins writes her thesis on them. I even have a great title.

 

The Duggar Family: A study of dysfunctionality of a family caused by Bill Gothard's teachings.

[kokapetl]

I kinda wonder about that. I don't think a lot of people are going to volunteer to do the stoop labor for a family with money coming in out of love. I think Michelle just doesn't want to acknowledge that she was paying for help with the housekeeping.

Well she doesn't want to set a precedent.

[NextIteration]

Question from a non-show watcher, are the little ones really that feral?

[Darknight]

Just imagine being a single, working mom who had to return to work after 6 weeks to pay the rent. Not a lot of sympathy here.

Well she should've kept her legs closed according to fundie logic. Remember even Josh wrote on his cupid account to get a job and not mooch of the government. So a single working mother is paying for her sins

Edited August 28, 2015 by Darknight

[SometimesBites]

But who would he sell it to? Say he found someone literate to write Duggared In: My Life at the Crossroads Where Shadowy Billionaires, Religious Fanaticism, Cable Television and the Republican Party Meet. Could they find a publishing company that doesn't either live in that space (their current publisher is owned by Rupert Murdoch) or rely on NCLB contracts? And even if they did, I doubt they'd be able to get it into WalMarts any time soon.

I have to disagree with your assessment, Julia. The Big Five publishers are ready to snap up any book that promises to make a pile of money (despite their rhetoric about being the glorious guardians and purveyors of literature). WalMart, too, is in it for the almighty dollar, and if Josh wrote a salacious tell-all, not only do I think WalMart would give it shelf space, I think the book would briefly touch the bestseller lists The book game is as debased as the TV biz, for all intents and purposes. Now if you'll excuse me, I need mittens, because hell must have frozen over--I can't believe I actually had a difference of opinion with you. :)

Edited August 28, 2015 by SometimesBites

[zoomama]

i am unclear about the references to 'Alice". can someone bring me up to speed on where this person posted or tell me what you a read that was written bu this person?

[NextIteration]

I was reading a blog post by someone who attended the Big Sandy homeschool conference. Her family set up camp right next to the Duggars. Apparently Josie at least really is a wild child. 

 

As a non-watcher but someone familiar with super-premies, I'd chalk any issues that Josie has up to developmental issues.

[Darknight]

I'm still wrapping my head around Josh's choice to have extra-marital sex unprotected. Are the Duggar kids taught about STDs, or is that subject another of their Black Holes of Fear?

Because even if Josh decided he didn't care about his own health, did he not stop to think of Anna's or that of any unborn children?

Josh seems to have been "educating" himself about many things even if his upbringing did leave him in the dark. And the fearless visits to strip clubs, as well as the hoped-for Ashley Madison hookups tell me Josh knew the score about life outside the compound. Unprotected sex is lunacy, and Josh had to know he was playing with fire.

There's no such thing as stds in fundie land.

[What In The]

Unfortunately for Josh and Anna, IMO this scandal or scandals rather, has fully killed his chance of being able to live even a semi normal life. Everybody now knows, his cash machine in the show is gone, and his wife will never likely trust him again. Not good for Smuggar.

[Darknight]

oh gosh, this is mean. i think the original poster was just saying that other gals have had a hard time getting on with their lives too immediately following childbirth. btdt ~~ it sucked! however, if a single mom can deal after a new baby, so can anna.

Well that's what a fundie would say. Even Josh's cupid profile said to people who are low income to get a job and stop living off the government.

[Andalusian]

Someone on another forum I frequent found this from two years ago posted on Reddit.  The originating account has since been deleted but, hey.  Thought it was interesting.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/thatHappened/comments/1kn61t/totally_true_story_about_josh_duggar_getting/

 

Edit -- forgot to add this is the accompanying image for the Reddit Thread title in case anyone can't get it to work.

 

https://i.imgur.com/v6cVkZY.png

Edited August 28, 2015 by Andalusian

[NextIteration]

Well that's what a fundie would say. Even Josh's cupid profile said to people who are low income to get a job and stop living off the government.

 

Laughs, remember the aspirin between the knees suggestion Foster Friess, Rick Santorum's billionaire supporter made to Andrea Mitchell last election cycle?

[kokapetl]

Question from a non-show watcher, are the little ones really that feral?

Yeah they are. The kids were somewhat well behaved in the early days. After Josie was born the kids went really feral. Edited August 28, 2015 by Kokapetl

[galax-arena]

Oh, here's the blog post I mentioned upthread re: the Big Sandy conference. The mother sings Michelle's praises, so take everything with a truckload of salt. 

[Defrauder]

I really don't want to imagine Josh going down on anyone... I hate you guys. 

Just replace Josh with his double Joe Smithson - fake profile pic and all.

[Fuzzysox]

i am unclear about the references to 'Alice". can someone bring me up to speed on where this person posted or tell me what you a read that was written bu this person?

Read about it here:

 

http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

[SometimesBites]

Oh, here's the blog post I mentioned upthread re: the Big Sandy conference. The mother sings Michelle's praises, so take everything with a truckload of salt.

The real kicker in that link was in the photo section: Josie hanging upside down inside...whatever that was--looked like a vehicle of some kind. Feral may fit the bill.

[Isthisok]

http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/josh-duggar-enters-rehab-following-scandal-51200?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3A1%3ADefault

[3 is enough]

The STD that Josh would really have to worry about is Chlamydia. It is very common, most people who have it have no symptoms, and if passed on to a baby in utero can cause eye infections and pneumonia.  

 

The kicker is that if it goes undiagnosed in a woman, it can cause serious, permanent damage to a woman's reproductive system, making it impossible for her to get pregnant.

 

Anna better get tested ASAP.

 

How ironic would it be if Josh's messing around actually stopped the baby train?

Edited August 28, 2015 by 3 is enough

[WescottF1]

Just out of curiosity, what is the fantastic restaurant in Rockford? 

 

We have several.  It might be a run-down post-industrial city, but there is plenty of good eatin' here.

[kokapetl]

http://www.theonion.com/americanvoices/josh-duggar-enters-rehab-following-scandal-51200?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3A1%3ADefault

“Hopefully he’ll get the bastardized Scripture he needs.”

14 Kids And Counting

TV LISTINGS August 28, 2011

Entertainment

TLC

10 p.m. EDT/9 p.m. CDT

A downturn in Jim Bob and Michelle's real estate business means it's time to cull the herd at the Duggar house.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Kokapetl