Once And For All: Were Friends's Ross And Rachel On A Break?

[Primetimer]

Adam Grosswirth and Tara Ariano attempt to answer one of Must See TV's knottiest questions.

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[TeeVee329]

Great read!

A question because I haven't seen these episodes in a while - where were Chandler and Joey when Ross started kissing Copy Store Girl?  He had gone there to meet them at this party Copy Store Girl invited them to and bitch about the breakup, did they just ditch him when he was drunk and heartbroken following overhearing Mark on the phone?

Edited July 8, 2016 by TeeVee329

[Rachel RSL]

They were absolutely 100% on a break. (lmao I distinctly remember having this debate with my roommates in college.)

[SophiaPehawkins]

I've been on team break for a while. I think technically Ross was right, but it's more than that. While it was crass and probably not in good taste to sleep with a girl that same night, a break is a breakup. He didn't cheat.

[marshmallow]

Another person for technically Ross was right, but I agree with Adam about Ross's atrocious behavior at her office. It was so apparent that he didn't take her blossoming career seriously, and that is shitty as her boyfriend. Rachel was completely understanding when they had to move their first date to the museum because of his emergency, but he couldn't give her the same respect. Between that and his jealousy over Mark, I think she was far too nice to him. He treated her like his possession, she didn't deserve that.

[Bill C.]

...I'm kind of glad I never watched this show now...

[NeenerNeener]

I've always been Team Break. Ross had reason to be paranoid; Mark really was hoping for a shot at Rachel and Rachel ran straight to Mark after telling Ross she needed that "break". Mark never gets enough blame.

[adam807]

18 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

A question because I haven't seen these episodes in a while - where were Chandler and Joey when Ross started kissing Copy Store Girl?  He had gone there to meet them at this party Copy Store Girl invited them to and bitch about the breakup, did they just ditch him when he was drunk and heartbroken following overhearing Mark on the phone?

Is it bad that I just watched it a week ago and have already forgotten? But I think they'd left by then. They'd gone to the bar hoping to hook up with Copy Place Girl themselves (some "fun" gay panic about how they might handle a threesome) and even before Ross gets there it's clear they're not into her when she's out from behind the counter.

[marshmallow]

5 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I've always been Team Break. Ross had reason to be paranoid; Mark really was hoping for a shot at Rachel and Rachel ran straight to Mark after telling Ross she needed that "break". Mark never gets enough blame.

I agree about Mark's ulterior motives, but Ross should have trusted Rachel. She never even hinted at being interested in Mark, she was completely committed to her relationship with Ross until his tantrum at her office, and she did ultimately turn down Mark's advances during The Break. 

[readster]

Just believe they both screwed up. Ross finally expressed his real reasons in the final few episodes when Mark showed back up and offered Rachel the job in Paris. Ross saying what he had always felt and then Chandler saying: "Is this 8 years ago? My time machine works!" Ross just should have not hooked up with the other woman at all. He was in a bad place and if Ross hadn't been such a moron in her office that day and instead had the conversation with Rachel after work. Then it would have came off better. Instead, they just both come off as morons and in my opinion what started the major decline of both of their characters. Rachel going from getting her footing in the world after walking out on her wedding in season 1 and Ross finally having an relationship and a functioning one with the girl of his dreams. Then they just couldn't make it work. 

[helenamonster]

I think I've mentioned this in another thread, but to me it wasn't even really about The Break at all. Putting aside whatever rules there are to a Break (they probably change on a case-to-case basis), let's pretend that Ross and Rachel broke up for realsies. That argument after he came to her office, Rachel just said, "No, we're done for good, see ya." And then that same night Ross was off having sex with Copy Place Girl. I think Rachel would be entitled to at least be hurt by that...after all of Ross's whining about Mark and he's the one that runs off to sleep with someone else as soon as Rachel shuts him down? Dick move, son. It also makes all his previous moping about how beautiful, ethereal Rachel can't deign to notice his dinosaur nerd ass incredibly hollow and childish.

For me, Rachel's upset comes more from the fact that she thought she meant more to Ross than his actions after they decided to take The Break seemed to indicate. He was disgustingly jealous of Mark, he couldn't appreciate that he wasn't the sole source of Rachel's attention, he makes such a goddamn scene at her place of business...and then it's just like nope, done, wham bam thank you ma'am, onto the next one. If I were Rachel, I would have felt like something that I had seen as a meaningful romantic relationship meant absolutely nothing to the other person. It also doesn't help that, as was mentioned, Ross sure as hell acted guilty about sleeping with Copy Place Girl when Rachel came back for a reconciliation.

It should also be noted that my view on this issue is clouded by the fact that running off to have a drunken hook-up with a near stranger immediately after a breakup is something that only seems to happen on TV. Damn near everyone I know would rather just stay in by themselves after something like that.

[AllyB]

Does nobody remember the actual episode? They weren't on a break. Rachel said she wanted a break. Ross left dejected and went to Joey and Chandler in the bar. After moping to his friends for a bit he phoned Rachel who immediately thanked him for calling her and said she didn't want to be on a break. He said he didn't want to be on a break either. So that was it, their break was over, both knew the other wanted to continue on in their relationship and they had confirmed they were still a couple. Then Mark, who was with Rachel, spoke. Ross heard, slammed down the phone and slept with Chloe. So Ross, after just confirming he was still in a relationship with Rachel got in a snit that she had a male friend over and made himself feel better about Rachel having a male friend by having a one night stand.

[FormerMod-a1]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

Rachel said she wanted a break. Ross left dejected and went to Joey and Chandler in the bar.

The only part I quibble with is this.  More happened between those 2 sentence.  Ross said something like "yeah, good idea, we need a break from this, let's go get some .... (whatever)" and then Rachael answered/clarified "Not a break from this, a break from us."  So that was definitely a break up.

[Quof]

Quote

let's go get some .... (whatever

frozen yogurt

It might be depressing that I know that so quickly.

[AllyB]

Yeah it was a break but it was over once the phonecall happened, before Ross and Chloe even kissed. So they weren't on a break when he slept with Chloe, he was just sulking because his girlfriend was with a male friend.

[SophiaPehawkins]

I think they agreed that they both didn't want the break, but Ross becomes upset because Mark is over. I wouldn't call it just a "male friend." To me, the break was back on, despite not being explicitly stated. I do think Ross was wrong for his behavior before the whole break conversation. He was jealous and possessive and didn't trust Rachel to not do anything with Mark. I can understand why he'd be upset if after fighting about Mark (kind of) and then he's in her apartment after he leaves. Yes, she didn't want him there, and she wasn't intending on doing anything with him, but Mark's actions weren't coming from an innocent place. She also got upset when he went to the park with the stripper and her kid. I think they were both at fault and I think sometimes Ross gets too much of the blame.

Quote

I think Rachel would be entitled to at least be hurt by that...after all of Ross's whining about Mark and he's the one that runs off to sleep with someone else as soon as Rachel shuts him down? Dick move, son. It also makes all his previous moping about how beautiful, ethereal Rachel can't deign to notice his dinosaur nerd ass incredibly hollow and childish.

I agree that she's entitled to be hurt by him sleeping with another girl. Like I mentioned in another post, it's kind of crass to sleep with someone else after a break/breakup, but I think he was hurting, too. I don't think it makes it right what he did, but I don't think it makes him wrong. I also don't think it takes away from his feelings about Rachel. He had a moment of stupidity, but for all intents and purposes and all he still did for her after that, proved he cared for her.

[PatternRec]

Kudos for the Futurama clip, I love that line!

Also, I have no real opinion on Friends but now I have Take a Break from Hamilton stuck in my head.

[NUguy514]

Ross was an emotionally abusive, possessive, jealous, hypocritical asshole who didn't wait even fifteen hours into the break/"break" to bone some other woman. He was 1973746298352% in the wrong and can go die in a fire.

Edited July 11, 2016 by NUguy514

[dmc]

Gonna go with Ross...I don't believe in breaks. Rachel broke up with him. You don't get to take breaks in relationships. At the point, where you call it quits the other person can do what they want.

[KateeBar]

Who knew this was so complex and layered? :)

To me, when Rachel said a "break from us" it would be acceptable to call that a break-up. And, Ross was being a total tool about the Mark thing. Even though I also think Rachel was being naive/ignorant/willfully obtuse about Mark's intentions and attention too. I would have broken up with Ross for his behavior myself.

However, I can also understand the degree to which Rachel was hurt. They were in a very serious relationship, and he sleeps with a girl the night they break up. It would make me feel like maybe I didn't matter that much after all. 

So - they were on a break; Ross was stupid in myriad ways; and the ensuing reconciliation and re-break-up was one of my favorite arcs, actually. 

[FozzyBear]

Another person for technically Ross was right, but I agree with Adam about Ross's atrocious behavior at her office. It was so apparent that he didn't take her blossoming career seriously, and that is shitty as her boyfriend. Rachel was completely understanding when they had to move their first date to the museum because of his emergency, but he couldn't give her the same respect. Between that and his jealousy over Mark, I think she was far too nice to him. He treated her like his possession, she didn't deserve that.

Agreed. Ross was horrible and absolutely in the wrong...but they were on a break. She broke up with him. You don't get to put people on a shelf until you're ready to deal with them. That's not ok either. Ross was an ass and Rachel broke up with him. They may have both regretted that 5 minutes after the fact, but that's what happened. Maybe I'm just sensitive about this because my husband tried to call a break on our marriage. I told him no because we're not kids and you don't get to be married at your convienence. You left me and I don't have to explain anything I do after that. Basically Ross and Rachel were the worst ever.

[lizturtle]

Oh, Ross is full of it. Yes, *technically* you could argue they were on a break, but if he didn't think he was in the wrong, why would he run all over town like that. What's worse (and I can't believe this wasn't mentioned!) is him being mad about their stupid anniversary dinner (seriously, it was like their 6 months anniversary? Grow the fuck up, Ross, what are you, in high school?) AND YET! When HE had an emergency at work on their FIRST DATE (which is inarguably more important than a 6 month anniversary), she SAT AROUND at the STUPID MUSEUM ALL NIGHT and didn't complain ONCE!!!! Ugh, I wish she hadn't ended up with Ross.

[Bort]

Yeah, in the end, I think that's my problem with Ross in this whole thing. He acted like he cheated, tried to cover it up, got busted, then took the "we were on a break" stance. It'd be fine if he'd taken this route from the get-go, but acting like he cheated pretty much takes away all his credibility. 

By the way, I really love that this can still be so heavily debated after almost 20 years. 

[FozzyBear]

30 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Yeah, in the end, I think that's my problem with Ross in this whole thing. He acted like he cheated, tried to cover it up, got busted, then took the "we were on a break" stance. It'd be fine if he'd taken this route from the get-go, but acting like he cheated pretty much takes away all his credibility. 

By the way, I really love that this can still be so heavily debated after almost 20 years. 

Totally get where your coming from, but I've never been 100% on the "then why did you act guilty" logic. Lots of people cover stuff up that they don't feel was wrong, but they know other people will judge. I remember glossing over living with a boyfriend because I knew my parents would be upset. I thought they were wrong to be upset, but I didn't want to have the fight either. Yeah it made me a wuss, but it wasn't proof I was doing something wrong.

For the record, I sympathize with Rachel being upset. It would SUCK to find that out, but don't call a break. Break up or stay and have the fight. Don't expect people to hang around waiting for you to make up your mind. 

 

Again, they both suck.

[dmc]

16 hours ago, lizturtle said:

Oh, Ross is full of it. Yes, *technically* you could argue they were on a break, but if he didn't think he was in the wrong, why would he run all over town like that. What's worse (and I can't believe this wasn't mentioned!) is him being mad about their stupid anniversary dinner (seriously, it was like their 6 months anniversary? Grow the fuck up, Ross, what are you, in high school?) AND YET! When HE had an emergency at work on their FIRST DATE (which is inarguably more important than a 6 month anniversary), she SAT AROUND at the STUPID MUSEUM ALL NIGHT and didn't complain ONCE!!!! Ugh, I wish she hadn't ended up with Ross.

Ross ran around town because he still loved her and he didn't want her to find out because he knew it would hurt her. 

I wanted Rachel to end up with Joey:)

[cherrypj]

3 hours ago, dmc said:

I wanted Rachel to end up with Joey:)

That was the worst arc of this whole show. Both of them got dumb overnight.

[dmc]

1 hour ago, cherrypj said:

That was the worst arc of this whole show. Both of them got dumb overnight.

I loved it!!!!

[zxy556575]

On 7/10/2016 at 2:04 AM, helenamonster said:

It should also be noted that my view on this issue is clouded by the fact that running off to have a drunken hook-up with a near stranger immediately after a breakup is something that only seems to happen on TV. Damn near everyone I know would rather just stay in by themselves after something like that.

Chandler and his sweatpants!

Another sitcom couple had the same experience -- after Penny and Leonard had one of their break-ups (for real) on Big Bang Theory, another woman came on to Leonard and he had sex with her. Penny was pissed and hurt when she found out, as one would be, but she ultimately rolled with it. I'm thinking Rachel would never have let that drop, either. It just would have been, "You slept with someone ONE DAY AFTER WE BROKE UP."

[Janet Snakehole]

I think the ideas of breaks are somewhat immature, but I don't consider them break ups per se. To me, it means taking time to think about the relationship apart with the expectation that there will be a conversation about whether to continue the relationship. So while I think they were on a break (since they didn't really end the break as Ross overreacted and hung up as soon as he heard Mark), I think it was in the realm of cheating. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I say they were on a break and broken up, even with the phone call. 

And after everything that happened and knowing how jealous Ross was of Mark, and how that influenced things, to tell Ross you want to break up, then have Ross call and find out Mark is in her apartment, I say they puts the break up back on and was an obvious bad choice by Rachel.  As bas as Ross sleeping with the girl?  No, but still bad. 

Was what Ross did smart?  No, it was in poor taste and a mistake.  The way it way played though was more reactionary to thinking Rachel was quickly moving on to Mark.  And Rachel's expectation seemed to be just give me some time, wait for me some more after waiting already to be with me for years, let me talk to Mark alone, don't do anything with anyone else and be ready to come back to me when I am ready.  Uh, no, doesn't work that way Rachel. 

But I give the writers credit, no matter which side of the debate you are on, for creating such a complicated and debatable situation that you can't 100% blame either character for what happened, its vague enough to not ruin the relationship for the future if/when they decide to get back together and both characters remain for the viewers likable enough despite the situation to continue to root for them on the show.  Its doesn't irreversibly damage the view of either character to the viewers.  It was the perfectly written situation 

[millennium]

Definitely on a break.   Rachel called it.

Ross is taking a lot of flak for doing the Copy Place girl but I think to be 100% fair you have to consider Ross's frame of mind.

Ross was basically destroyed by the failure of his marriage to Carol.   His whole self-image was rattled to the core.   You going to tell me his masculinity didn't take a hit after that?   Or that he didn't begin to wonder what was wrong with him?   People do that when couples break up for heterosexual reasons but Ross had to face up to the fact that he'd been replaced by a woman.

For months he tried to get his mojo back by pursuing his first love, only to be thwarted time and again by Rachel's flighty libido (Paolo/crapweasel, for example).   "Rachel = redemption" in Ross's eyes, a chance to set the world right again, to maybe put things the way they were always meant to be.

And then, miraculously, he got her!   He could begin to heal, to enjoy life again.   Rachel = recovery.  So you better believe he's going to hold onto her.   Then Rachel gets the fashion job.   Working with attractive guys who are actually interested in the same things she is.    Ross is neither handsome nor interested in the day-to-day details of Rachel's career.   That's two strikes against him from Day One.   And he knows that Mark's interest in Rachel is more than professional.   That's two strikes and a foul tip.

A more experienced,  well-adjusted, mature guy who had more than one sex partner in his life and was never cuckolded by a lesbian  might be more level-headed about the situation.   But this is Ross.   He had to contend not only with his own insecurities but his knowledge that Rachel has a weakness for shallow, handsome men (demonstrated by how quickly she fell into bed with Paolo).  On some level Ross had to know his clinginess was self-destructive but he just couldn't help it.    In his eyes, he had to do everything possible to hold on to her.   Any less, and Rachel would be gone.   Just like Carol.   And it would be his fault for not trying hard enough.

When Rachel called the break (in other words, broke up with him), all the insecurities and fears tormenting Ross were validated.   I'm not good enough.  I'm not man enough.   Nobody will ever love me.   When he talked to her on the phone and heard Mark in the background ... it was probably the most emasculating moment of his life.

Ross hooking up with the Copy Place girl had nothing to do with sex.   It was a desperate act by a desperate man trying in vain to ease his agony and prove to himself that he could survive without Rachel.  Probably there was some anger there too, at having been so deeply hurt (whether he had it coming or not).

Many see Ross's act as a betrayal of Rachel.  But on another level, this otherwise nice guy abandoning all better judgment and throwing himself at the first available stranger may have been the single most powerful statement of how much Ross really loved Rachel.

Edited August 15, 2016 by millennium

[chitowngirl]

Did we know Mark had an interest in Rachel before the breakup? I thought that was all Ross' perception and he became irrational because of it. Mark had a girlfriend when Rachel was hired.

[Bort]

I think Mark eventually broke up with his girlfriend by the time the break was set in motion, but I don't think that's relevant. What's relevant is if Rachel was interested in him -- which she wasn't. 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Did we know Mark had an interest in Rachel before the breakup? I thought that was all Ross' perception and he became irrational because of it. Mark had a girlfriend when Rachel was hired.

Mark may have had a girlfriend, but Joey and Chandler knew the lowdown, just as Ross did: guys don't do favors for pretty girls out of niceness.    Would Mark have gone out of his way if Rachel were homely and overweight?  I doubt it.

[FormerMod-a1]

I always wondered why no one other than Ross was suspicious of Mark, in general*.  He gives Rachel, a complete stranger, her dream job even though she has no experience and no education in it.  He gave it to her why? But no one seemed to find this odd.

* "in general" meaning not as it pertains to Ross' mistrust of Rachel pre-break(up), because I agree if he trusted then her Mark's motives don't matter.

[chitowngirl]

Mark got her the interview, not the job. Rachel got the job on her own.  She does have a college degree and had that crappy job in fashion. She had good qualifications for an assistant. Plus Mark coached her for the interview (also raising Ross's suspicions).

[FormerMod-a1]

Yes, she had a degree, but not in fashion or retailing or anything relevant.  And her crappy job was only tangentially related to fashion, not working with a buyer for a major store.  She really was not qualified at all.  She had never even been a admin assistant.  And if a trusted colleague said please interview this person for the job, I would weigh that harder than a "random" interviewee, so yes, he did get her the job in my eyes.  I just hated this plot all around.

[WendyCR72]

Was it VERY poor form for Ross to bang the copy girl the same night that he and Rachel had their blow up? Yes. Was Ross a douche before that in not taking Rachel's budding career seriously? Yes, again.

With that said and the disclaimer that I was never into Ross/Rachel much (Chandler/Monica fan here), Rachel may not have shown interest in Mark and Ross should have trusted her, but Ross was half right in that Mark did have ulterior motives. It never excuses things, but that seed of insecurity went back to high school for Ross and I can see how old patterns died hard. And I agree with those who are Team Break, as horribly as Ross reacted. Once Rachel said "a break from us", that said splitsville to me.

And I am sympathetic to Rachel in terms of how Ross demeaned her career. And I get Ross going for Chloe the minute (or so it would seem) they had their little showdown would sting, but my sympathy lessened more and more as time went on, starting with the damned 18-page letter (front and back, y'all!) where Rachel tried to foist ALL responsibility on to Ross. Which is bullshit. Actually, to backtrack further, to avoid all the kindergarten games the audience was subjected to, I will say Ross should have just told Rachel - when she came to talk to Ross - that he did sleep with Chloe. Maybe it would have derailed the reunion, but if this was a break - and I think it was - it was lowdown but, again, it would not have been cheating. No matter what narrative Rachel wanted.

Naturally, though, we got said games, starting with that letter at the beach house. And because Rachel wanted Ross once it looked like he was going somewhere with Bonnie. (Which would be an annoying theme for both sides as time went on!) So, once Rachel sabotages Bonnie and she's out of the picture, enter the dangling carrot in the form of that letter. Ross once again could not be honest and say he was too damned tired to read that novella right then and there which led to more crap, but in a way, that was fine with me. It showed me even then these two would forever go in circles and were toxic.

And on and on and freaking on...  I tend to think they lasted maybe six months after the finale before they did finally go their separate ways and decided to just co-parent Emma. Long story short, I think it was a break. But one the audience suffered through for the rest of the damned series.

[Crs97]

Rachel told Ross she wanted a break from them and then told Monica that she broke up with Ross.  She doesn't get to backtrack to get more sympathy.  My favorite scene is Hugh Laurie on the plane telling her off after being subjected to her story.

[Janet Snakehole]

That is fair to not sympathize with Rachel. But I have hard time sympathizing with Ross who supposedly loved Rachel soooooo much but it only took an immature fight to sleep with someone else. Sure, I can see it happening, people do dumb things when drunk and brokenhearted. But his running around town trying to hide it instead of coming clean along with his massive jealousy makes him look like a jerk in my eyes.

Meh, they both suck. Team single both of them.

[Miss Dee]

Ooh, great debate topic! For me, whether Ross technically cheated is besides the point; he stuck his dick in another woman less than 24 hours after being in a committed relationship. Thanks to @millennium and others, the argument can be made that he didn't do it out of selfish bastardry (which is what I had originally thought), but he still did it. Rachel would have been totally justified in telling him that if he was capable of doing that, then she didn't want anything to do with him. 

Of course she tried to argue that he'd cheated instead, which is where the ambiguity and debate comes in. If she'd said "Ross, I can't be with someone who could so casually make love so soon to another woman after being in a committed relationship," I would have been 100% on her side.

[mamadrama]

So I rewatched that episode today. Rachel says she wants a break and Ross, without saying anything, storms out of the apartment. So the break was never actually discussed between them nor agreed to. Rachel said she wanted it, Ross left without speaking. Later, he called and got mad when he found Mark was there. 

What bothers ME about the whole thing is that Ross could not take responsibility for anything he did. 

It was rude and disrespectful for him to show up at Rachel's work the way he did. Was she in the wrong for putting him off? I don't know. It was a new job and she was stressed. HE was the one who said she was "just a waitress" yet now that she has a good job, a CAREER she has worked for, he acts like it's nothing. We've seen how seriously Ross takes HIS job. He can only be responsible for HIS actions so no matter what Rachel did; he was still in the wrong for showing up with all that stuff, making the noise while she was on the phone, and setting the thing on fire. That was all on Ross. I would've been angry as well. It could have gotten her fired. 

He then turned around slept with another person on the same day he was declaring his love and devotion to her. 

Yet he NEVER took responsibility for any of it. When they're talking in Monica's apartment afterwards he's whining that SHE was the one who wanted the break. JOEY and CHANDLER were the ones who didn't want him to tell anyone about the copy girl. MARK was at the apartment with her and that upset him. Ross throws blame at every other person, yet refuses to take personal responsibility. That's what bugs me. 

I actually find Ross to be borderline abusive. I don't think he wanted her to have a career. To have friends outside of the core group. He was constantly finding ways of putting her down (just a waitress, nobody would watch a movie about HER profession, insinuating she got the job because Mark liked her and not because of her skills). As I get older I find myself growing increasingly uncomfortable watching his interactions with her. 

[Cquen82]

Sorry Rachel, but you were absolutely on a break.

 

She was the one who suggested the break, if she didn't want this to be a "break up" she should have clarified with a statement like "let's take a break for a few days and then come back together to talk about this."

She has a right to be upset with what happened, and the Mark situation was unfortunate to say the least. However, she has no right to debate with Ross about whether they were or were not on a break/if his sleeping with the copy girl was wrong or not. They weren't together at the time.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Cquen82
Spelling mistake

[hnygrl]

My only beef with the break is that Rachel was supposed to be the love of his life. Literally the love. of his. LIFE. Break or no break he should've been doing everything he could to get her back.

Not falling into and spending the NIGHT WITH the first vagina that said yes.

Your love don't run very deep if you can do that mere hours after a break/break up. I mean HOURS. The fight was still the same damn day and he's already boning somebody else.

Joey I would expect that of. Not Ross. So much for love of your life...sure, Joey/Chandler probably encouraged Drunk!Ross to do it, but still...If someone I was that deeply in love with did that within hours after a fight I'd never want to see or date him ever again.

Edited February 8, 2017 by hnygrl
made the same mistake. twice.

[WildStyle]

Yes. They were on a break / broken up. Rachel said so 3 different times. She tells Monica that they didn't get to dinner, because they broke up instead. Then she leaves a message on Ross' machine, saying she doesn't wanna get back together that way. You don't get back to something you never left. Finally, she asks to be his girlfriend again when he opens the door. So there's no question. They had broken up. Ross did not cheat on her.

Now, regarding his sleeping with Chloe. He was not right to do that. But he wasn't wrong either. He was emotional and upset. His girlfriend had just called it quits on their relationship, then when he calls to talk to her, he finds she's got Mark in her apartment after 10:00 p,m. Then she was caught lying about it. Ross asked her was anyone there, and she said no. Then he asks if it was Mark, and she reluctantly says yes, prompting Ross to hang up. Why did Rachel lie about having Mark over? Because she knew it would upset Ross. But why is she so intent to hang out personably with a man her boyfriend clearly didn't feel comfortable about? Even in the midst of a break-up, she can't stay away from Mark. Rachel lied about Mark for the same reason Ross tried to keep her from finding out about Chloe. Both knew the other would be upset at their actions. 

Ross was rebounding when he slept with Chloe. He did love Rachel, but after she calls a break and has Mark in her apartment alone at night, he thought he'd lost her, and that she'd made her choice. He didn't go out looking for women to sleep with. He went out to have a drink, and Chloe came on to him very aggressively. Being slightly drunk and upset, he gave in to temptation, and trying to console himself with another person.

Rachel did the exact same thing. When Ross came home with Julie, Rachel was devastated and went to Palo's place and slept with him. Does that mean she didn't want Ross? No. it means she thought she'd missed her chance with Ross, and now he's chosen another woman. So she was hurt and upset. Even the following morning, she was upset over Ross and what she did that last night. But even though she'd just had sex with another man that night, she still had feelings for Ross and wanted him. Palo was a mere distraction and stress-release. No different than Chloe. So yes, Ross had sex with another woman. but that didn't mean he loved said woman. It was an emotional thing he did in distress over losing Rachel. 

And Rachel doesn't give Ross enough credit. Does she really think so little of him that she thinks he went out to look for women to shag after the break? She should have understood he was upset and emotional -just like she was when he was with Julie. Rachel had nothing to be upset over. Ross just had random ONS with a rebound girl he cared nothing about. Is she honestly threatened by that when she's been dating him for an entire year and he loved her dearly? She acts as though he just casually slept around on her. Or like she just found out that he was cheating on her, and almost left her for Carol or something. 

But when Rachel finds out about Chloe, she changes her tune. Then she turns everything on Ross. All her mistakes didn't matter when she found out what he did. He explains his feelings about why a break = break-up, and she had no answer. All she could do was say he was using technicalities. Then he again points out how he didn't want the break, and that she ran from things as soon as they got rough. Once again, she has no decent response and just brushes it off with "that's neither here nor there." That was very here and there. She broke up with him, and had hurt him. Then she further screwed up by having Mark over at 10:00, then lying about it.

She accuses Ross of jeopardizing their relationship by sleeping with Chloe. But she jeopardized their relationship by breaking up with him in the first place, and still keeping personal contact with Mark. When she called the break, Ross wanted to calm down and suggested they get yogurt. But Rachel corrects him and says she meant a break from their entire relationship. He stands there and stares at her for a min, and she stares right back, and says nothing -which told him all he needed to know. So, he left.

BOTH were at fault. But Rachel refuses to admit that she wasn't a perfect girlfriend. She made bad choices as well. And even during their fight, it was all about how hurt she was. She never once stopped to think about how hurt Ross is. He grovelled and begged all throughout that episode as if he was the only one who made bad choices, and victimized Rachel.

And I don't think Ross lied about still wanting to be with Rachel if she'd slept with Mark. Because it was the same with Carol. She cheated on him, and chose Susan. But when Carol was pregnant, he still clearly had feelings for her, and even asked to give things another try -despite Carol being with someone else, and cheating on then leaving him. Then there was the 3sum he was willing to have. I am not talking about the alternate universe either. When Ross talks to Charlie, he finds out she had an ex come out as gay. So Ross talks to her about that, and mentions suggesting a 3sum. So he was willing to share Carol if it meant making her happy, and getting to still be with her. So I don't doubt Ross would still want Rachel if she'd slept with mark.

Regarding Ross' fears with Mark. Ross wasn't afraid that Rachel was a slut who'd just sleep with random men while they were together. He was worried that Rachel would spend more time with Mark, and eventually fall in love with him because they have more in common and Mark is more her type, whereas Ross was the dorky brother of her friend, before becoming her dork friend later. Rachel never even considered Ross to be an option until Chandler blabbed to her that he liked her. Shows he's not the type of man she's used to, or typically goes for. So when they were finally together, as he said, it's hard not to think Rachel would eventually start to see him as just the dork friend again when she falls for the type of man she usually likes. 

You can control randomly having sex. But you can not control falling for someone else if you spend enough time with them. That's how many emotional affairs start. They're not planned. But someone spends more time with an opposite sex friend. Eventually they get comfortable enough with one another and start sharing relationship woes, then romantic feelings develop. Now they have feelings for someone else who is not their partner. 

Joey even mentioned that Mark was trying to get in good as Rachel's friend and confidant to gain her trust. Then she'll got to him to complain about Ross. Then she'll start to see him as a better match because he gets her. And that already started when Rachel tells Ross "Mark explained it to me. He said you guys do this kind of stuff." So she's already talking to Mark about her personal relationship with Ross, which is none of his business. And Rachel is actually listening and taking it to heart, and throwing it back at Ross later. When Ross remarks about Mark wanting sex, Rachel go offended. When Mark makes a comment about Ross, she actually listens. So she already seems to hang on Mark's words more than her own boyfriend. Instead of talking to Ross, or even Monica - his sister, she lets Mark talk about her boyfriend. And when she gets the job, she thinks to hug Mark, rather than her boyfriend, who's standing right there. 

So Rachel falling for Mark was an even greater risk when she won't admit he may have ulterior motives and continues to see him despite Ross' concerns. Carol didn't just randomly cheat on Ross. She spent more time with Susan, and fell for her, which then led to full on cheating with not only dating, but sex as well. You can't control who you fall for. But in a relationship you can control not putting yourself in the position for that to happen. But since Rachel wouldn't admit Mark was just nice to get with her, she wouldn't compromise and cut back on time with him. So she's just continuing to head right in. 

There was room for compromise on the Mark situation. If Rachel admitted that Mark have have had ulterior motives, then she could have been a bit more careful in hanging out with him. Such as invite Mark to hang with the group. If he's a friend, that shouldn't be a problem. Or go out with him in a group setting where they won't be alone too often. But with Rachel not admitting to possibilities, she thus didn't compromise on anything, so Ross' feelings never got better, nor was he reassured. 

And Rachel may have deep down, known Mark had ulterior motives. But if she admits to that, it hurts her pride because she got her career started by being cute, and nothing more. And she wouldn't wanna admit that. So she'll just think "This nice guy has faith in my potential." Rather than "This guy is looking to get on my good side and hook-up."

And I don't think Ross is a possessive guy in general. Mark was the only one he had severe issues with. Rachel used to be a waitress. Different men came in and out of Central Perk all the time. And surely she was probably flirted with, and had ample opportunity to catch a man's eye, or have one catch her eye. BUT Ross never showed any jealousy or concern. He wasn't worried about men in general. He was only worried about Mark.

Both were not ready for their relationship. Rachel never really had a serious relationship before then -the best was Barry, whom she was only with for money and security and he cheated on her frequently. Rachel was fine to be devoted to Ross when she had nothing going on -just a waitress. But when she got her new job, that took priority over her relationship because she was trying to establish herself and fully get her independence. Meanwhile Ross already had his career set and had been independent and on his own. He was ready to settle down fully -which he mentions it the pilot -"I just wanna be married again." So both became incompatible. Rachel wanted things to stay more casual and just wing it. Ross wanted a definite relationship that was working toward more serious, thus he wanted more attention than Rachel could give anymore. But both were immature, and I think they didn't work as a couple and could bring out the worst in one another. 

And lastly, I don't see how Ross not caring about Rachel's job is any worse than how she cares nothing about his. Both admitted that. Ross complained about the lecture rambling about strappy dresses. Rachel fires back that someone talking about stuff that's been dead for millions of years is boring, and all she hears is "blah blah, blah." Both are guilty of not caring for one another's jobs and finding them boring. Another reason for their incompatibility. They seemed to have nothing in common, other than good sex. They were only slightly better than Sam x Diane, which was an extreme mess.

Edited February 28, 2017 by WildStyle

[TigerLynx]

Monica told Ross it didn't matter if Mark liked Rachel because Rachel wasn't interest in Mark, Ross should trust Rachel, and grow up.

Once Ross called Rachel and they agreed they didn't want to break up, that meant they weren't broken up and Ross cheated.

However, if Rachel didn't want to forgive Ross and get back together with him, then don't.  Don't waste years with the on again off again nonsense.  Move on.

[Smad]

As has been mentioned by some people, they weren't on a break, they were actually broken up. Rachel herself made that clear 3 times. 'Break from US.', 'we broke up instead' and 'don't want to get back together like that'. All of those are clear cut references of Rachel's as to a break up.

[Meushell]

Technically. They were making up over the phone before he hung up on her. However, even without the phone call Ross...slept with another woman that same night, made up with Rachel while said woman was still there, then ran around to hide his actions from her. He didn’t deserve another chance after that.

[nilyank]

Ross acted badly and jealously with Rachel and they have a huge fight where Rachel tells him that she wants a break for them.

That's a break-up. Ross was responsible for the break-up by his behavior before the fight.

Yes, he sleeps with the Copy Girl that same night, but I don't think the timing was the issue with Rachel. It was that he slept with someone else. If the break lasted one day or one month or longer, I think Rachel was always going to be hurt if Ross slept with anyone else.

When Ross woke up the next morning and found out that Rachel wanted to talk and work things out, he knew that she would be hurt by what he did. He felt guilty by what he did because he knew it would hurt her. So yes, he went running around town trying to cover it up.

Then they have the epic fight where they address all their issues. Something they should have done when Rachel asked for a break from them, but couldn't because she still had to work.

I think why they would keep going back to "we were on a break" is because neither one wanted to admit they were wrong later on. Rachel wanted Ross back as he was moving on with Bonnie, tried to sabotage his relationship, and when he finally admits that he wants to try again with Rachel, she writes him an 18 page letter where she rambles on only to place all the blame on him. Not for acting jealous, but for sleeping with the copy girl. Ross was going to swallow his feelings in order to get back with Rachel but she kept harping that it was Ross' fault and he was a cheater.

So to sum up, they broke up because of Ross' jealousy and insecurity.

Ross did not cheat because they were broken up.

Rachel was entitled to be hurt by Ross for sleeping with the copy girl.

Ross should have never tried to cover it up by running around town. He should have told Rachel once he knew that she could have found out through the loose lips.

However, after they have their massive fight and stay broken up, Rachel doesn't get to throw that in Ross' face that he was a cheater when she tells him that she wants him back. When they were together, he never looked at another woman and he never has shown a history of cheating.

[Meushell]

4 hours ago, nilyank said:

However, after they have their massive fight and stay broken up, Rachel doesn't get to throw that in Ross' face that he was a cheater when she tells him that she wants him back. When they were together, he never looked at another woman and he never has shown a history of cheating.

While I mostly agree with you, I would disagree with the bolded part (unless you specifically mean he never cheated on Rachel). He does have a history. He kisses Rachel while with Julie and later with Bonnie. (She’s guilty as well in both cases.) He almost sleeps with Phoebe after finding out his wife is a lesbian. Granted, Carol cheated on him first. This scene is kind of creepy to watch considering what happens later.

I do agree that Rachel doesn’t get to throw it in his face like she did, and she’s not innocent herself.