S01.E06: Sundowner

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Jesse finally comes face to face with Deblanc and Fiore and learns about the mysterious entity that has taken over his body.

[AimingforYoko]

Well, damn Preacher, here I thought you frittered away that utterly bonkers opening with the adventures of Emily and Tulip and then Jesse sends Eugene to Hell.

Hubris, Jesse, look it up.

[SoSueMe]

Great episode! I am loving this show. It had it all tonight. Comedy, tragedy, irony. Love Tulip and Em becoming friends (?) loved the slapstick knockdown drag out angels and Jessie vs. seraphim battle. Is Cass really in love with Tulip? Poor Eugene, is he gone for good? 

[AimingforYoko]

3 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

Poor Eugene, is he gone for good? 

I can't believe that. Not if Jesse's the hero.

[SoSueMe]

4 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I can't believe that. Not if Jesse's the hero.

I've never read the comics (and I'm glad). Soooo, do we really know if Jesse is the hero ? Maybe an anti-hero?

[Lantern7]

Bit of  departure from the comic. On the plus side, the angels & Jesse vs. seraphim fight was funny. If the show had more of a budget, I'd imagine we'd have them battling hip-deep in dead bodies.

Jesse sent Eugene to hell. In other words, he's somewhere in Annville. [rimshot] Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitstaff.

Jesse never struck me as an asshole in the comic, or at least the first twelve issues. Apparently, this Jesse doesn't know what comes after pride.

[shanndee]

After being indifferent about the first episode, I am so glad I stuck with the show and gave it a chance!

I haven't read the graphic novel, so I have no expectations and I'm happy to go where the series chooses to take me. I really love these characters, and I can't wait to see the ramifications of Jesse's hubris.

Love, love, love Cassidy and Tulip (but not Cassidy and Tulip...that ends badly no matter what way you look at it).

Really looking forward to next week!

[pezgirl7]

Poor Cassidy. He looked so heartbroken. And poor Eugene! If Jesse can find a way to bring him back, won't he be totally messed up in the head after spending time in hell? I was so afraid those boys were going to do something to him in the drain tunnel, but was pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure what to make of Emily and Tulip. Tulip seemed like she was trying to be nice at first, but then when she went off the errands, I was certain she was going to mess it all up. So now I'm just trying to figure out if she did them soley to get on Jesse's good side. I like that the characters keep me guessing.

[Sandman87]

The scene in the motel room is one of the darkest comedy moments ever. I wonder if it took any inspiration from the game Paranoia.

I'm glad I was wrong about Cassidy not wanting an emotional entanglement with Tulip. Makes him a more interesting character. Sadder and more sympathetic.

Poor Eugene. He became the voice of morality, pointing out that free will is the point of both giving and receiving forgiveness, and promptly got sent to Hell. Maybe Hell in this case means somewhere in town. A slaughterhouse, maybe? Meanwhile, Tulip seems to be trying to change her ways (somewhat) without any Commands from Jesse. There's a moral there somewhere.

Conspicuously absent from the episode: 1881.

2 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

I've never read the comics (and I'm glad). Soooo, do we really know if Jesse is the hero ? Maybe an anti-hero?

Definitely an anti-hero, but veering close to anti-villain territory at the end of this episode.

[TC3200]

14 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

...Jesse sent Eugene to hell. In other words, he's somewhere in Annville. [rimshot] Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitstaff...

lol

 

I like this show.   I think it helps to at least occasionally picture the scenes as a graphic in a comic book, because some of this is, well, over the top and off into fantasy land.   :-D   The flawed characters are great.  But now I know why my mother never let us have comic books.  ;-)     hahahahaha!

Edited July 4, 2016 by TC3200

[Sandman87]

3 hours ago, TC3200 said:

The flawed characters are great.  But now I know why my mother never let us have comic books.  ;-)     hahahahaha!

She was protecting you from the corrupting influence of Richie Rich, Donald Duck, and Archie.

 

ETA: For those who care about such things, the revolver that the seraph was using is a Russian Nagant M1895, which is one of the few revolvers that can be suppressed.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Sandman87

[thuganomics85]

The opening fight scene with Jesse and the Cowboy Angels vs. the Sephrim was close to perfect.  Brutal to watch, but also a lot of dark humor, with all the bodies piling up and how frustrated the Angels got every time Jesse just killed the sephrim, and not just put her out of commission.  In his defense, that is a lot easier said then done.  And then, of course, it's Cassidy showing up that finally ends things.  Go Cassidy!  Great opening.  I also liked them going into the cloning aspect more and basically explaining that once they "die", they automatically come back near the area they were "killed."  Really curious to find out more about those two.

This was probably my favorite episode yet.  Emily and Tulip were surprisingly an effective pair, Eugene is becoming a good sympathetic, voice of reason character, the mayor scrambling to cover-up Quincannon's actions from last week was fun, and Jesse letting this "Genesis" thing clearly continue to corrupt him and make him worse, is intriguing.  He really just doesn't seem to see the damage he is doing, and how dangerous this power is.  For all the good he does, he can easily do bad.  Like with the ending.  He apparently just sent Eugene to Hell.  Now, maybe he'll get lucky and there's some kind of bar or club called Hell, and Eugene is just freaking out in there, but that would so suck if Eugene is doomed for eternity of hell, fire, and damnation, just because he dare call out Jesse on his actions.  Have a feeling though he'll be back somehow.

There was a lot of good shots in this episode too.  The directing and cinematography were on point tonight!

[magdalene]

That was definitely my favorite episode. Good grief, Jesse is an utter asshole, right from the beginning I liked him the least of the three main characters. And he certainly didn't endear himself to me last night. Poor Eugene!

[SnarkyTart]

Well well.  After loving the pilot episode, enjoying the second episode, then becoming increasingly disappointed through EPS 3-5, I was this.close to deciding not to finish out the season.  I have zero complaints about this episode, surprise!  That was a great bit of fun.  Well done, Show. 

[Captanne]

Strangely, I don't like Eugene at all.  He does nothing for me.  I did like his speech about free will but it didn't go far enough.  A day late and a dollar short.  Love Tulip.  I think Cassidy is a hoot and I'm hot/cold about Jesse.  The rest of the townsfolk are all miscreants so I'm not big on the ensemble cast.  However, I do like the style and atmosphere of this show -- so I'm sticking it out.

[La Tortuga]

I like that while Jesse is the star of the show, that doesn't mean the audience is convinced he's the hero, even if he is convinced that he is. I thought it was interesting how Fiore's logic against Jesse keeping Genesis echoed Tulip's statement from the pilot.

Fiore: You're just a human. A sinful one.

Tulip (when Jesse insists he wants to be a good guy): There ain't good guys or bad guys. There's just guys.

[SoSueMe]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The opening fight scene with Jesse and the Cowboy Angels vs. the Sephrim was close to perfect.  Brutal to watch, but also a lot of dark humor, with all the bodies piling up and how frustrated the Angels got every time Jesse just killed the sephrim, and not just put her out of commission.  In his defense, that is a lot easier said then done.  And then, of course, it's Cassidy showing up that finally ends things.  Go Cassidy!  Great opening.  I also liked them going into the cloning aspect more and basically explaining that once they "die", they automatically come back near the area they were "killed."  Really curious to find out more about those two.

This was probably my favorite episode yet.  Emily and Tulip were surprisingly an effective pair, Eugene is becoming a good sympathetic, voice of reason character, the mayor scrambling to cover-up Quincannon's actions from last week was fun, and Jesse letting this "Genesis" thing clearly continue to corrupt him and make him worse, is intriguing.  He really just doesn't seem to see the damage he is doing, and how dangerous this power is.  For all the good he does, he can easily do bad.  Like with the ending.  He apparently just sent Eugene to Hell.  Now, maybe he'll get lucky and there's some kind of bar or club called Hell, and Eugene is just freaking out in there, but that would so suck if Eugene is doomed for eternity of hell, fire, and damnation, just because he dare call out Jesse on his actions.  Have a feeling though he'll be back somehow.

There was a lot of good shots in this episode too.  The directing and cinematography were on point tonight!

I agree with everything you posted, and re: the cinematography, wasn't that a great time lapse shot of the folding chairs on the church yard?

[Fisher King]

This episode sold me.

Eugene's delighted face in the tunnel touched my soul, especially after me telling him not to go with the those boys. Then...

...Dammit, Jesse! You can't just blurt out any old crap anymore. Words have physical consequences now. You get your act together and bring Assface back from hell, pronto!

[ghoulina]

On 7/4/2016 at 8:27 PM, La Tortuga said:

I like that while Jesse is the star of the show, that doesn't mean the audience is convinced he's the hero, even if he is convinced that he is.

This is what I LOVE about this show. It reminds of Breaking Bad, in the sense that the main character isn't someone you necessarily like or want to root for. I like it when characters are complex and flawed and your opinion of them can change over the course of a show. Take Eugene, he's obviously done something very bad, to the point that the whole town hated him, but he still understands the basic concept of forgiveness and free will. 

 

On 7/4/2016 at 9:07 PM, SoSueMe said:

I agree with everything you posted, and re: the cinematography, wasn't that a great time lapse shot of the folding chairs on the church yard?

The cinematography has been my favorite thing about this show since the first episode. It's just so pretty to watch. 

 

Side note - interesting that Tulip is a mother. I hope we get to find out more about that.

[jaigurudeva]

Well, there is a Hell, Norway. Jessie has to be very careful of what he says and how he words things, like Kilgrave from Jessica Jones.  Hopefully, he doesn't tell everyone at the mass to all "open their hearts" to God, literally.  And it also seems open to interpretation.  Somehow, Quincannon thought that murdering all of the GreenAcre executives was a way of "serving God," in lieu of joining a monastery or something. I'm interested to see the fallout once Jessie's shaken of Genesis' influence and he realizes how much damage he's caused.

Edited July 6, 2016 by jaigurudeva

[Snookums]

Whew, finally saw this one and it's definitely the best of the bunch so far.

The opening scenes were terrific and the fight in the hotel room a damn riot, in every sense of the word--"She's got an axe!" had my husband and I shrieking with laughter. And Cassidy swinging confidently by to make things worse but hey, at least Jesse's gotta believe him now was very very Cassidy. He doubts everything at all times, maybe, but always sees the bright side. 

This does, however, render the thing between him and Tulip even more lopsided than before. I truly believed was gone for her; his sad, sad face in the supply closet convinced me, plus he's been firmly established as the kind of one foot off the cliff, joie de vivre dipshit who would literally fall at first sight because what else is he doing with his time? but Tulip's "seduction" of him makes even less sense than before. She clearly isn't doing it to make Jesse jealous, so what the damn hell, show?

I did like her and Emily doing that cautious, who are you and why is this happening? girl bonding, and how breaking Emily's daughter's kid art thing was a bridge too far for Tulip. The carryover of her soft spot for kids from the pilot was the first time the show's bothered to give her some kind of character continuity. I too wondered if she was planning to kidnap either the daughter or the church supplies, but it doesn't seem so so far. 

And here's Jesse, the living embodiment of the old joke about the man refusing two boats and a helicopter, being warned, left and right, that what he's doing is not what he thinks/wants to be doing, and gleefully ignoring it because he's decided this is the way out of his irksome, unsuitable, undoable promise. Three times he's told that his idea is wrong--Cassidy, Miles, and Eugene--and three times he refuses to listen (and that's not even counting the two angels' constant remonstrations that Genesis is not for him.) You could tell he's not so much deluded or convinced as that he wants to be right, because he's so scared of this power, because he's exhausted, and hates being the Preacher, and desperately wants to flee Annville but can't do so. He needs God and the voice in his head to be the same. The only difference between him and the rest of us is that most people have to settle for believing that if listened to they could redo the world into a better place. We don't normally have to put our money where our mouth is.

[fastiller]

My husband always used to say that the worst thing you could say to him was "Go to Hell".  He was okay with you cursing at him, he was okay with you calling him a terrible so-and-so, he was okay with a lot.  He was never okay with "Go to Hell," because in his mind it meant you wanted him to suffer for all eternity (all those years of Catholic school and being a regular church attendee for the better part of 50 years will do that to a person).  This (Jesse/Eugene) was a perfect illustration of his concern.

[netlyon2]

21 hours ago, Fisher King said:

This episode sold me.

Eugene's delighted face in the tunnel touched my soul, especially after me telling him not to go with the those boys. Then...

...Dammit, Jesse! You can't just blurt out any old crap anymore. Words have physical consequences now. You get your act together and bring Assface back from hell, pronto!

I've grown soooo protective of Eugene.  He's reminding me of Angel (from the Buffyverse) right now, with the simple joy at not feeling alone swiftly followed by guilt and shame for being happy in the first place.

So, I'm not sure where they're going to go with Eugene's disappearance; I see two possibilities:

1) The show established that this power can't make someone do something that is beyond their capability.  Cassidy couldn't fly, even when Jesse ordered him to.  Therefore, Eugene couldn't have gone to actual Hell.  Will we find him next week in the place where he is most miserable?  Will he try to "finish the job" in order to get to Hell?  But then there's the fact that

2) It seemed like Eugene straight up vanished.  Does this mean that Genesis!Jesse's power has leveled up and he can do telekinesis, too?  If so, this opens up a whole new can of crazy worms and also probably means that Eugene is actually in Hell.

14 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Side note - interesting that Tulip is a mother. I hope we get to find out more about that.

I started wondering about this one or two episodes ago.  I haven't had a problem with Tulip--I quite enjoy her character--but I was baffled as to why she was so persistent when Jesse seemed so disinterested.  Losing a child seemed like a valid motivation (especially given her rapport with the kids in the pilot).  Honestly, I'd thought that the problem was the Dominic Cooper wasn't pulling his weight by showing much of an emotional connection to her (other than the "I could never hate you" from the pilot and the occasional affectionate squint).

This episode's maybe-reveal makes a lot of sense for both of their characters.  Tulip's determination to kill Carlos with Jesse makes absolute sense if Carlos caused them to lose a child.  Doing it on her own or with someone else would be denying Jesse the revenge that she believes he deserves.  From Jesse's side of things, it makes sense that he would see such a loss as his punishment for not honoring his father's wish that he be a good person.  We've seen him go from grim determination to full out mania over these episodes, always with the goal of making people "good."  I'm also fairly certain that he was sorely tempted to use the voice on Tulip in the diner, but couldn't bring himself to do it.  (I should mention that this is all speculation and I have no idea if any of it is actually right.)

9 hours ago, Snookums said:

This does, however, render the thing between him and Tulip even more lopsided than before. I truly believed was gone for her; his sad, sad face in the supply closet convinced me, plus he's been firmly established as the kind of one foot off the cliff, joie de vivre dipshit who would literally fall at first sight because what else is he doing with his time? but Tulip's "seduction" of him makes even less sense than before. She clearly isn't doing it to make Jesse jealous, so what the damn hell, show?

I totally think that Cassidy was just Tulip's rebound one night stand.  That Komodo dragon scene in the diner really seemed to drive home to her that Jesse was committed to this path of being good and that he was not going to go after Carlos with her.  It also felt like a rejection of her and a renunciation of whatever they'd shared in the past.  Meanwhile, Cassidy had been making googly eyes at her just that morning and validating--even encouraging--her plan for revenge.  So, she went for the guy who didn't make her feel like a pest or a plague.  Then, this week, she felt dejected because sex didn't make the pain go away and lashed out at Emily.

At first, I thought she might also be trying to seduce Cassidy into helping her, but I see two problems with that:. (1) She didn't need to because he was totally down with the whole thing from "stab Carlos in the face with a screwdriver" and (2) she apparently didn't ask him that night and was probably trying to ghost him after.

I am really loving this show, density and meandering and all!

[PatternRec]

2 hours ago, netlyon2 said:

1) The show established that this power can't make someone do something that is beyond their capability.  Cassidy couldn't fly, even when Jesse ordered him to.  Therefore, Eugene couldn't have gone to actual Hell.  Will we find him next week in the place where he is most miserable?  Will he try to "finish the job" in order to get to Hell?  

I've been wondering if Eugene's disappearance is a fake-out or not. Your post made me think of another option - Jesse can't make people do things that are impossible, but we know there's a heaven in this universe, so let's assume there's a hell. If there's a hell it's possible Jesse can send people there. Not probable, but possible. 

[Captanne]

I'm finding it hard to connect with Eugene, to be honest.  I don't "get" him.  Also, because this show is so new and over-the-top, I don't trust it.  I couldn't enjoy one second of the journey to the stovepipe.  I kept thinking it would turn into a Stephen King horror story somehow.  That takes away from my enjoyment -- I can't invest in Eugene and I'm not sure I want to.

[tennisgurl]

I am glad I decided to stick with this show, because this was a really good episode, and I feel like we are finally getting some momentum into where this is supposed to be going!

No! Eugene! Damn it Jesse, did you learn nothing from the heart guy? You cant just say stuff anymore! And Eugene actually made a lot of good points. Jesse needs to realize that he cant just force people to become good, they have to actually want to do it, or it means nothing! I mean, you can help the town by stoping harmful behavior, sure, but he is not really changing people, especially because his powers seem to be doing more harm than good now. 

Cassidy is still great, and I loved him getting into the fight at the start. And Tulip and Emily are a surprisingly good combination. I like both of them, and I hope we get more of them together, before whatever the big plot of gets moving. 

Still confused by some things (as a non book reader), but I am hoping things will make more sense later. I kind of just want to look up the plot of the comic, but I do not want to be spoiled. Damn it. 

[SnarkyTart]

It looks like we're not going to get a Previously TV recap of this episode, which makes me sad because this was the best episode since the pilot.   Reading the recap wouldn't change my opinion, but I would enjoy reading it anyway.

Edited July 8, 2016 by SnarkyTart

[Starving Writer]

On 7/7/2016 at 0:33 PM, tennisgurl said:

Still confused by some things (as a non book reader), but I am hoping things will make more sense later. I kind of just want to look up the plot of the comic, but I do not want to be spoiled. Damn it. 

You might as well, because the comic and the show are completely different at this point.  My only concern would be that you might spoil some future possible plots, as well as the purpose of the 1881 scenes, that the show is setting up as mysteries.  But even as a comic reader, I have absolutely no freaking idea where the plot is heading.  

[ganesh]

I don't really care about the degree to which this departed from the comic, and I don't see why that's relevant to people that just want to watch a television show; however, this was a *fun* episode of television. Finally. 

I haven't really been into the show. I don't mind slow shows if there is a clear narrative direction, but I wasn't seeing what that was in the first 5 episodes. I think a show needs to establish that within that time frame. While the eventual cowboy meeting with the preacher was fine, in terms of when it occurred in the story, I think we should have known a little more about what the entity was by now. 

Does the voice not work on the seraphim? It worked on the other guys, so I figured telling her to stay in place so they could tie her up might have worked. 

The opening fight was spectacular and drew me right into the episode. I'm actually looking forward to the show instead of just getting around to it when I can.

[PatternRec]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

The opening fight was spectacular and drew me right into the episode. I'm actually looking forward to the show instead of just getting around to it when I can.

Same here. The humor in that scene was brilliant. 

[Sandman87]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

Does the voice not work on the seraphim? It worked on the other guys, so I figured telling her to stay in place so they could tie her up might have worked. 

I suspect that Jesse just didn't think of trying it, and just went with his first instinct to react physically.

[ganesh]

That's ridiculously short sighted then. It's the one advantage they had.

[PatternRec]

I think Jesse was also thrown a bit by the information the angels gave him. He doesn't use it during the fight, immediately after he gets the info, then later as the info sinks in he slips into denial, insisting he *is* doing God's work and ends up using the Word in a more and more abusive way.

[Ubiquitous]

Holy crap! Where's Eugene? Why was everyone being creepily nice to him? Did Jesse talk to them between this and the previous ep? Why is Eugene in school if he tried to blow his brains out after hearing about Kurt Cobain's death?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 7/16/2016 at 8:53 PM, Sandman87 said:

On 7/16/2016 at 2:48 PM, ganesh said:

Does the voice not work on the seraphim? It worked on the other guys, so I figured telling her to stay in place so they could tie her up might have worked. 

I suspect that Jesse just didn't think of trying it, and just went with his first instinct to react physically.

I thought that the angels didn't want the seraph(im) tipped off that Genesis was in Jesse, because it would get back to Heaven.  At that time, Genesis' location was still a secret.