S06.E09: Battle Of The Bastards

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, smices said:

I could sympathize with Sansa's point until Jon specifically asked her for an alternative battle strategy and her response was I don't know anything about conducting battles. Perfect opening and she played dumb.

Drogon and Dany came down on those ships like Sherman into Atlanta. Loved it!

She had nothing to offer him that the Vale will show up that's not playing dumb; so she tells him then what?

Jon to Sansa when will they show up? Sansa, I don't know I got no reply, Jon why not tell me earlier? Sansa, I don't trust him, if he finds out Rickon is alive he would kill him.  Jon, so we have no way of knowing? Sansa, Jon I know both these men, hold off as long as possible, don't let Ramsey take you out of your plan etc. no matter how they end this conversation, it's a hope and a prayer and Ramsey schooled Jon with Rickon.

Again she told Jon Ramsey is going to make Jon screw up and he did, one way or another Rickon was dying that day.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ramsay is finally dead! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. 

[Pete Martell]

13 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

You should have stopped at the end of the bold. As for your description of Tyrion as "pretty awful human being," I just don't get that one at all. I think that he is an imperfect, but fundamentally good character, piratically a saint compared to the most of the other characters, definitely when compared to his siblings.

I didn't stop at the end of the bold because we don't share the same opinion. If you don't agree that's fine, I respect that. And I mostly see Tyrion as someone who wants to believe he's good, but is more than willing to do terrible things (or allow others to do terrible things), even cold-blooded murder, if it suits him. If he wasn't so sanctimonious and so dull, it wouldn't bother me as much as it does.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Pete Martell

[xaxat]

The cinematography for the battle was gorgeous, and I liked the feeling of chaos, but it all felt poorly constructed. I think they went to the "Is this when Jon dies?" well too many times. (I actually liked the idea of him dying face down in the mud.) All of a sudden a bunch of shield bearers appear out of nowhere to encircle them? Ramsey's forces don't break even as he orders his archers to murder his own cavalry? Wun Wun and Jon chasing a mounted Ramsey made me laugh. But all of it was visually very impressive.

The Ironbound have really good tailors. Yara looked great in those leather pants.

Tyrion annoyed me because, for all of his wise adviser talk in the throne room, his actual plans went totally to shit. Just like Grey Worm warned him. 

5 minutes ago, Calamity Jane said:

I kept yelling, "Serpentine!  Serpentine!"  I can't remember the title, but it was a movie with Peter Falk where he was a spy and teaching someone how to dodge gunfire.  

The In Laws.

[ulkis]

5 minutes ago, Calamity Jane said:

I kept yelling, "Serpentine!  Serpentine!"  I can't remember the title, but it was a movie with Peter Falk where he was a spy and teaching someone how to dodge gunfire.  

When I saw that scene I just said regular old "zig-zag!". :hangs head:

Poor Rickon. It wouldn't have mattered. sob.

[Oscirus]

16 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

If anything I think it just proves how redundant he's become. All of his scenes felt like rehash. Back in season 1 or even season 2, I still cared about Tyrion with his negative qualities and appreciated that he did have some intelligent ideas. 6 seasons in, it's basically rinse and repeat, mostly because the show never wanted to properly delve into him because that would mean their facing the idea that he's more than a long-suffering "good" Lannister with a way in quips. 

If you disagree that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

If you dislike Tyrion that's fine, but saying that Tyrion does nothing of value is false. In this episode alone, it was his plan to take down the masters that Dany used, and he was the one who freed the dragons.

[Dobian]

Yara was definitely rocking the leather pants, and she was making a bit of a play there for Dany.  They had a definite vibe going.  I wonder if that's going to lead someplace.

I knew Littlefinger's army was going to be riding in to save the day, I was just waiting for it.

What goes around comes around, eh, Ramsay?

[AlliMo]

That smile on Sansa's face as she walked away at the end. Girl has HAD it.

Sansa may have sent to Littlefinger for help, but she doesn't trust him as far as she can throw him. Even if he had sent a raven telling her that he was on the way, she couldn't trust that he would actually show until he did. As others have said, what would be the point of even telling Jon; he already wasn't listening to her about Ramsay.

Tyrion did the best he could with what he was given, all things considered. Dany has big ideas, but she needs a voice of reason like him and she clearly knows it. Tyrion's been in the game his whole life, and he knows better than anyone that brute force isn't enough to stay on top. I'm fully on board with Dany conquering Westeros. She and Tyrion are the few characters in the series who have consistently tried to do what's best for everyone, not just their own pride or self interest.

[Calamity Jane]

17 minutes ago, xaxat said:

The cinematography for the battle was gorgeous, and I liked the feeling of chaos, but it all felt poorly constructed. I think they went to the "Is this when Jon dies?" well too many times. (I actually liked the idea of him dying face down in the mud.) All of a sudden a bunch of shield bearers appear out of nowhere to encircle them? Ramsey's forces don't break even as he orders his archers to murder his own cavalry? Wun Wun and Jon chasing a mounted Ramsey made me laugh. But all of it was visually very impressive.

The Ironbound have really good tailors. Yara looked great in those leather pants.

Tyrion annoyed me because, for all of his wise adviser talk in the throne room, his actual plans went totally to shit. Just like Grey Worm warned him. 

The In Laws.

Thank you! 

[MissLulu]

I don't think Sansa knew Little Finger & the Vale would show up for sure or in time untill they did. We saw her send a Raven and assume she was asking but remember she wanted Jon to wait. Perhaps to see if the Vale would show up... but did not want to tell Jon in case they didn't... that is my theory. Also in the after show, they said, he stopped short of killing Ramsey cause when he saw Sansa he realized he wasn't his to kill... he chose to give her that.

on the edge of my seat through out... from the Dragons to the Ramsey chow... :)

Edited June 20, 2016 by MissLulu

[Pete Martell]

18 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

If you dislike Tyrion that's fine, but saying that Tyrion does nothing of value is false. In this episode alone, it was his plan to take down the masters that Dany used, and he was the one who freed the dragons.

I agree, he did something right. I was mostly being hyperbolic because to me his arrogance and hypocrisy is never matched by the limited amount of positive he manages to accomplish. My apologies for not being more clear.

[rozen]

Sansa sent a letter summoning the Blackfish and Littlefinger, Jon knew about the prior but not the former...and wasn't willing to wait either way. If he wasn't ready to gamble on a relative who's sane and duty-bound to respond when called, he sure as hell wasn't going to wait for Littlefinger and his insane ward to show up and save the day.

This is like...the one time I'm not even mad at Sansa. Gaining psychological insight into your opponent is a huge boon, but Jon was all but rolling his eyes because she couldn't redraw his battle plans on the spot. He literally fell for the exact trap he was trying to execute. She pointed out that Ramsay had way more leverage over their emotional control (Rickon) than Jon's petty taunts about facing him man-to-man. He's spent too much time fighting straightforward wildlings and White Walkers who aren't interested in any form of negotiation. I'm disgusted with Jon, honestly.

Doesn't matter what Rickon did, Ramsay could have hit him all the way up to the slope. He hunts people through the woods on a regular basis for funsies, and Rickon was running on a open slope with crosses illuminating him perfectly from either side, he was screwed. If Ramsay didn't like mind games so much, he probably could have put  second arrow right through dum dum Jon's heart as he stood there flabbergasted at Rickon's body. 

Ohh, that was a nasty end, love it. Also love how Sansa at first recoiled, but came right back to watch some more. She was like "I earned this." 

How did Yara get there so fast? They make information seem so slow to be relayed, but then the Iron Fleet zips across the Black Sea in what, a week? I don't see how there's not going to be a lot of collateral damage from the Dothraki retaking Mereen. It's not exactly like the Harpi have uniforms other than that mask, and I doubt every Dothraki was going to be like "uh, could you turn around for me to make sure if I should be stabbing you or not?" 

I love Grey Worm's smug face when the 2 Masters threw the low-born one under the bus. It was exactly what he wanted, wasn't it? 

Edited June 20, 2016 by rozen

[Isolde13]

They Rohan'ed them!! They did it! OMG!

[knaankos]

Stand aside Baelor and Blackwater. There's a new best episode in the house 

[GrailKing]

Well if anything, I think Jon showed

he is a Stark and a son of Rhegar; Ned,Robb,Rheagar and Jon fought Honorably, Valiantly, Nobly and Jon almost died.

Jon hopefully learned something.   

[knaankos]

1 hour ago, rozen said:

 

Doesn't matter what Rickon did, Ramsay could have hit him all the way up to the slope. He hunts people through the woods on a regular basis for funsies, and Rickon was running on a open slope with crosses illuminating him perfectly from either side, he was screwed. If Ramsay didn't like mind games so much, he probably could have put  second arrow right through dum dum Jon's heart and he stood there flabbergasted at Rickon's body. 

 

Couldn't Rickon have watched the flight of the arrow and then dodged it as it was coming? wouldn't be too hard to glance back and watch it from release. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After all the excitement of this week's episode, I feel like Cersei's trial will be a letdown. I was totally on edge for the entire hour and convinced that Jon (and Tormund and Davos) were going to die. When Davos went for his little walk I was sure that there would be some sort of scout from Ramsay's camp lurking out there who would kill him. And once the battle started, I was cringing and ducking on my sofa (because, you know that would totally save them from being stabbed or beheaded).

I am not a Melissandre fan, but during the battle I thought huh, maybe the Lord of Light really did choose Jon Snow. How else did he ended up the luckiest bastard ever in that battle? There were arrows coming at him, horses charging straight at him, etc. and he somehow managed to stay alive.

I watched Inside the Episode and I'm not sure I agree with the cast and crew about Jon becoming a monster when he was beating Ramsay's face in. He said at the beginning of the episode that only one bastard had to die and he was just making sure that happened. Even if you get all honorable about the rules of war, Jon was well within what is considered acceptable. He and Ramsay were supposed to be having a one on one fight so killing Ramsay would not have been this shameful/dishonorable thing to do. It's war, man. Killing the (legitimized) bastard who took your family home, killed your brother (and his direwolf), physically abused your sister, and tried to have his army kill you isn't an unreasonable thing to do. I mean, I'm not the kind of person who thinks murder solves everything but in this case, what was the alternative? Letting Ramsay live and keeping him as a prisoner? He killed his father so there's no one from his house who would fight to get him back so he's useless as leverage/collateral. I just don't get Kit and the show runners clutching their pearls about Jon almost killing Ramsay.

Quote

I love Grey Worm's smug face when the 2 Masters threw the low-born one under the bus. It was exactly what he wanted, wasn't it? 

Ha, he totally loved that the other two turned on the third guy. I know that he was going with the whole "you only need one messenger" tactic, but seeing those two snakes so easily point toward the other guy just made it that much more enjoyable for him to kill them both.

Edited June 20, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo
Missing some words and letters

[ulkis]

Just now, knaankos said:

Couldn't Rickon have watched the flight of the arrow and then dodged it as it was coming? wouldn't be too hard to glance back and watch it from release. 

If he did that though, Ramsey probably would have just gotten someone to run out there and go kill him.

I'm not mad at either Jon or Sansa. And I don't think Sansa's telling Jon no one could protect her was about her not being able to trust anyone, although that could be a part of it, just her acknowledging Jon didn't have the power to 100% protect her.

[CletusMusashi]

I think if I lived in Westeros I'd work for the bad guys. I mean, come on. They're allowed to wear helmets, and carry shields, and they don't have to be named characters to wear body armor, and they're even allowed to shoot you from a distance with projectile weapons. If you're a good guy, your battle equipment consists of some cloth or fur, a short (non spear) one handed weapon... and gods help you if you're a giant! You'd think somebody who's twenty feet tall and considers the square/cube law to be the square/cube mild suggestion would be able to just stand back with a few wagons full of rocks and massacre the bad guys, but nope. Giants aren't even allowed to use a battering ram to break into castles full of archers.

All I could think when Jon was glowering at Lord Kibbles was: "Shoot him! Oh. Right. For some reason you only own one weapon. Must make shaving your chest interesting. Well, then, have one of your archers... wait a second... all of you are like that now? What the fuck?"

[ulkis]

28 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's war, man. Killing the (legitimized) bastard who took your family home, killed your brother (and his direwolf), physically abused your sister, and tried to have his army kill you isn't an unreasonable thing to do. I mean, I'm not the kind of person who thinks murder solves everything but in this case, what was the alternative? Letting Ramsay live and keeping him as a prisoner? He killed his father so there's no one from his house who would fight to get him back so he's useless as leverage/collateral. I just don't get Kit and the show runners clutching their pearls about Jon almost killing Ramsay.

Writers and actors, especially actors who play good guys, usually love it when their characters go "dark" and usually like to interpret an action as some secret bit of darkness in the character's soul blah blah. So I get it from that perspective. But I agree with you. Ramsey was a monster, and Jon letting loose on him after the monster just killed his brother and a bunch of other men he knew isn't really a sign of Jon slipping into darkness or what have you.

Edited June 20, 2016 by ulkis

[rozen]

12 minutes ago, knaankos said:

Couldn't Rickon have watched the flight of the arrow and then dodged it as it was coming? wouldn't be too hard to glance back and watch it from release. 

 I think looking up into the sun with side illumination from the flames would screw up Rickon's ability to find an arrow in time. And if he started jogging or something, the penalty for rule breaking doubtless would have been having the dogs set on him too.

[lvbalgurl]

3 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

On another note..*small voice*  I'm very ashamed to say that I am now shipping Jon and Sansa *hangs head in shame*...I will see myself out...don't know how this happened..*end small voice*...it will pass...I hope..

*sits next to you* Love, LOVE their scenes and the actors have a ridiculous amount of chemistry together.

Spoiler

If R+L=J is revealed, I'm shipping them hard as a pairing.  Jon and Sansa had no real 'sibling' relationship before now and cousin-loving was okay during medieval times.  Yep, I'm ready with the justification!

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My issue with Rickon trying to dodge Ramsay's arrows was that Davos or anyone on Jon's side could have watched the arrows for Rickon and then yelled, "Run to the right!"

[nurse1]

calamity jane:

Quote

I kept yelling, "Serpentine!  Serpentine!"  I can't remember the title, but it was a movie with Peter Falk where he was a spy and teaching someone how to dodge gunfire.  

Me too! that movie was called the In-Laws and it was so funny.

So, damn, it was definitely "Ladies Night" this episode!...I really enjoyed this episode very much...the women were so badass!! As a woman, I really enjoy kick-ass, take no names badass women! Even little Lady Mormont was present! All they needed was Arya and the circle is complete. Ladies, this bud's for you! LOL

Sansa, that smile as you were walking away from Ramsey was icing on a cake...but you standing there while he became dinner by his hounds was killer!!!

[Lady S.]

Tormund using his teeth against the Smalljon reminded me of Brienne biting Sandor's ear off.

Jon looked more sad about Wun Wun's death than Rickon's, but I could be projecting my own feelings there.

ETA: I feel like we all need to relive this in gif form.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Lady S.

[dramachick]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

If he listen to Sansa or stuck to his plan either way, Rickon is dead period! Sansa was correct Rickon sadly had to lay on that field dead and Jon should had stuck to his plan it would had bought him time and maybe less dead.

This is the Stark's version of a Kobayashi Maru.

If Jon had sat on his horse and watched Rickon be killed in front of him without trying to save him, it would have been out of character and harder for the audience to root for him. 

[thuganomics85]

I guess this qualifies as a happy episode of Game of Thrones.  Sure, it had the deaths of thousands of men, the last non-bastard Stark male, and a badass, loyal giant, but hey!  They won!  Yay!

Seriously, even though I saw most of it coming, I am so glad Ramsay is finally done for.  Iwan Rheon was certainly amazing, but man, this character was just so evil and probably overstayed his welcome a season or two, so something needed to happen soon, or it just wasn't going to be fun anymore.  They still managed to give him a "send-off", by being the one to kill both Rickon and Wun-Wun, but at least he got his.  Death by Sansa unleashing his own hungry dogs on him was certainly a brutal and fitting way to go.  Only thing that would have made it better would have been him being on a cross, flayed, instead of just tied to a chair, but I'll take it!

Funny thing is that Ramsay really did outplay Jon pretty easily.  Had it not been for Sansa doing her own thing and aligning with Littlefinger and the Vale, Jon really would have screwed the pooch here.  I get Rickon dying right in front of him understandably threw him off his game, but knowing he was already at a disadvantage.... yeah, just not many good calls here.  Not quite sure why Sansa decided not to tell him, but maybe she made the right call since he was so impulsive and even incompetent here.

Still sad about Wun-Wun, but I am relieved Tormund made it through.  That magnificent bearded bastard better not go anywhere!  At the very least, he needs to stick around more and try to woo Brienne!  And his scene with Davos was awesome.  I would so watch more of those two together.

Dany and her Dragons saving Meereen was as awesome as I expected.  They probably blew the visual effects budget with this one, having all three dragons burning ships left and right.  I continue to like Dany and Tyrion, and how they play off one another.  Both need each other in a lot of ways, and make up for each others weaknesses.  Dany is willing to tell Tyrion when to shut it (and that seems to have passed on to Grey Worm and Missandi, which is a good thing), while Tyrion is able to be "OK, lets plan this out and NOT burn everyone, please!" with her, whenever she goes into her "Kill them all!" phases.  Yay, teamwork!

Kind of surprised how they just introduced Theon and Yara getting to Meereen with less spectacle.  I thought they would get the big, dramatic, sailing in entrance, but they were just introduced in the palace, with Tyrion bitching about what a dick Theon was.  But I'm glad this group is already together, and they seem to be down with telling Euron to take his dick and shove it up his ass.  Dany and Yara were great; and, at the very least, I totally think Yara was actually hitting on Dany.  Hey, weirder things have happened.

Liked that the Dothraki even got a moment, by them and Daario taking out those Harpy jackasses. 

I guess Davos didn't know how Shireen died, exactly?  I wonder what he thought happened?  Ramsay killed her or something?  But I guess he now knows the truth, and will probably go after Melissandre, now.

I guess the finale next week will be a bit quieter then this one!  Especially since Trial by Combat is off the table.  Thanks, Tommen!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the things I really enjoyed about this episode was seeing the new alliances. As was pointed out by the characters themselves, Tyrion, Dany, and Yara/Theon all had asshole fathers which was a good starting point for them to understand each other. More importantly, they have common goals and they can help each other so they are willing to put aside their family history to work together and achieve those goals - their fathers' fights are not their fights. I read only the first book (after S1 aired because I'm a spoilerphobe) so I'm not well versed in the history of all the different houses and their previous alliances with each other, but I am pretty sure that Tywin, Balon, and Aerys would be apoplectic about their children's current alliance.

Similarly, it was great to see Tormund and Davos talk about how they were previously on opposite sides (Davos backed Stannis who killed Mance), but now they're united in supporting Jon and Tormund and Davos even kind of like each other. And then there's Tormund and Jon representing the old Wildlings vs. Night's Watch fight. I think that all of these changing allegiances are a sign that the new generation can work together for a peaceful future. Then again, it's George R.R. Martin so he will probably throw a grenade into the middle of everything and blow it all up.

Another thing I loved was that Theon was very straightforward in supporting his sister's claim to the Iron Throne and said he wasn't fit to be king. Although I believe that Yara intends to keep her word (no more raping and pillaging), I don't think that her subjects will take the news very well. I can already see them grumbling, "Well, what are we supposed to do with all our spare time now?"

[Oscirus]

Quote

I guess this qualifies as a happy episode of Game of Thrones.  Sure, it had the deaths of thousands of men, the last non-bastard Stark male, and a badass, loyal giant, but hey!  They won!  Yay!

Bran is going to be pissed to find out he's a bastard :p

[RCharter]

Thank  you all, I'm only 40 minutes in, and I to know if I would have to endure any more of the Ramsay smirk.  Thank goodness.

[rozen]

20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Another thing I loved was that Theon was very straightforward in supporting his sister's claim to the Iron Throne and said he wasn't fit to be king. Although I believe that Yara intends to keep her word (no more raping and pillaging), I don't think that her subjects will take the news very well. I can already see them grumbling, "Well, what are we supposed to do with all our spare time now?"

Yea, I have no idea how that's supposed to work. I was like, girl have you seen where they're from? It's not like they can just start farming potatoes (even if they wanted to). They're GRRM's version of proto-Vikings, who took up raiding in the first place because their land was shit for agriculture.

Doesn't bode well for round 2 of being Khaleesi either. Dany apparently is still a fan of telling people to fundamentally alter their way of life without offering any alternatives. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by rozen

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Yea, I have no idea how that's supposed to work. I was like, girl have you seen where they're from? It's not like they can just start farming potatoes (even if they wanted to). They're GRRM's version of proto-Vikings, who took up raiding in the first place because their land was shit for agriculture.

I mean, I totally support no more raping and pillaging, but I think it's going to be a tough sell to the inhabitants of the Iron Islands because that is their way of life. What is Yara going to offer as an alternative?

Yara: Hey, guys, we still have boats so we can take up fishing! And maybe we can offer luxury cruises!
Ironborn: So...we take rich people on our boats and then steal their jewelry and rape their women?
Yara: No, we just take them out on the boats and they pay us for that.
Ironborn: But why? What's the point of that? That doesn't sound fun at all!
Yara: But it's a way to make a living.
Ironborn: But we're Ironborn. We pay the Iron price!
Yara: Not anymore.
Ironborn: ARRRRGHHHHH!

Edited June 20, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[RCharter]

Whew so glad Tormund Brienne's future boo made it though okay.

Ahhhh, Ramsay.....sarcastic till the bitter end.....guess you weren't so smug when you were getting eaten by your dogs.  You probably should have feed them a peasant or two so they wouldn't be quite so hungry.

Boy....I sure did savor that ass whipping.  That was good.

In fact, a great episode for the good guys all the way around.  So great to see all three dragons out and about.  And how do you sit around laughing at a woman who has not one, not two, but THREE dragons!  And oh boy when the sons of the harpy saw the dothraki coming.....awesome.

[Cynna]

6 hours ago, dramachick said:

Shout out to Lyanna Mormount, who was staring fierce daggers at Ramsey before battle!

I missed a tonne of the battle as I was near-tears, looking through my fingers, clutching at my dogs, and yelling at the screen. Did they show her after the battle started and - most importantly - did she survive?

6 hours ago, Oscirus said:

North was fine but I really couldn't get too excited about that portion because we've known exactly what was going to happen for the pat nine episodes.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but from the preview I figured it wasn't going to go well for Jon, and that he and the Wildlings would be slaughtered. I was (pleasantly) shocked that he made it through the battle.

5 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

I am also on the team that didn't understand why Sansa didn't tell Jon she had sent a ravengram for help? Doesn't mean that LF would definitely show up but at least Jon may have waited a bit. 

Right?  After the battle when Sansa and LF were all smugtown and smirksville, I yelled hard at her - all that death, all that horror, and it could have been avoided if she'd just told Jon what LF had said, and especially that she'd sent a raven. Jon wasn't happy about going to battle with such a small army, but clearly didn't see any other option. I'm not a fan of Sansa today.

5 hours ago, madhacker said:

I agree with everybody about how awesome tonight was but I feel we do need to give Iwan Rheon a much deserved round of applause for delivering an outstanding performance as Ramsey.

Absolutely! I recently read an interview with Rheon where he talked about being messed up from playing Ramsey. Rheon's a poet/singer and had originally been in the running to play Jon, and seemed to be struggling emotionally/spiritually with many of the scenes he had. A good guy, and great actor to make us all seeth at the sight of him!

[arjumand]

3 hours ago, rozen said:

Sansa sent a letter summoning the Blackfish and Littlefinger, Jon knew about the prior but not the former...and wasn't willing to wait either way. If he wasn't ready to gamble on a relative who's sane and duty-bound to respond when called, he sure as hell wasn't going to wait for Littlefinger and his insane ward to show up and save the day.

This is like...the one time I'm not even mad at Sansa. Gaining psychological insight into your opponent is a huge boon, but Jon was all but rolling his eyes because she couldn't redraw his battle plans on the spot. He literally fell for the exact trap he was trying to execute. She pointed out that Ramsay had way more leverage over their emotional control (Rickon) than Jon's petty taunts about facing him man-to-man. He's spent too much time fighting straightforward wildlings and White Walkers who aren't interested in any form of negotiation. I'm disgusted with Jon, honestly.

Doesn't matter what Rickon did, Ramsay could have hit him all the way up to the slope. He hunts people through the woods on a regular basis for funsies, and Rickon was running on a open slope with crosses illuminating him perfectly from either side, he was screwed. If Ramsay didn't like mind games so much, he probably could have put  second arrow right through dum dum Jon's heart and he stood there flabbergasted at Rickon's body. 

Ohh, that was a nasty end, love it. Also love how Sansa at first recoiled, but came right back to watch some more. She was like "I earned this." 

How did Yara get there so fast? They make information seem so slow to be relayed, but then the Iron Fleet zips across the Black Sea in what, a week? I don't see how there's not going to be a lot of collateral damage from the Dothraki retaking Mereen. It's not exactly like the Harpi have uniforms other than that mask, and I doubt every Dothraki was going to be like "uh, could you turn around for me to make see if I should be stabbing you or not?" 

I love Grey Worm's smug face when the 2 Masters threw the low-born one under the bus. It was exactly what he wanted, wasn't it? 

The bold is the only thing I disagreed with - not the Sansa part, the Jon part.

IMO, Jon is exactly in the wrong frame of mind not to be affected by Ramsey's mind games - he's suffering a massive case of PTSD resulting from 1. Hardhome (which I know is a year ago for us, but was like yesterday for Jon) and 2. His complete and utter betrayal by his brothers of the Night's Watch.

And even then, the attacks were pretty straightforward. With Ramsey, he was playing directly on Jon's need for family and need to belong. Because Ramsey was Jon, growing up as a bastard - not having any emotions himself, he knows how people with emotions will react, and which buttons to push.

Now Sansa, her only fault in this episode, IMO, was that she wasn't explicit and detailed enough about what Ramsey does. Jon is a very straightforward kind of guy - you need to give him more than vague "I know him" utterances. I appreciate that she tried, but she wasn't explicit enough. Like at the end of their conversation, when she said she was never going back to Ramsey, and he said he'd protect her. That's two people speaking at cross-purposes here.

What she means is: "I need someone to kill me before Ramsey gets his hands on me again." So when your brother (hem hem) clearly doesn't understand what you mean is not the time to flounce off with a dramatic "No-one can protect me". Though Jon was the wrong person to ask, if he couldn't even imagine that Rickon was doomed. Which is why I'm kinda pissed that Brienne wasn't there, though I know it made no sense (unless she borrowed LF's jetpack) - she'd be the one to ask.

This episode was nerve-wracking. I can't watch it in real-time, being in the wrong timezone, so I freely admit I skipped to the end at one point (when it looked like Jon was going to be crushed under the weight of the dead), because I couldn't take the tension.

Edited June 20, 2016 by arjumand

[Geneve138]

I'm choosing to view Sansa keeping the Vale army a secret from John as pure strategy. If John had known, he would have incorporated them in his battle plan and lost the element of surprise. I think Sanda knew that to beat Ramsay, she had to outsmart him and to do that she had to keep John in the dark. She needed John to behave as he would if he were fighting without reinforcements (which he did, since he didn't know there were any) to ensure Ramsay believed he had won before swooping in and taking him down. I don't think the secret was a lack of trust in John as a person, I think it was a necessity in order to outplay Ramsay.

[RCharter]

6 hours ago, madhacker said:

I agree with everybody about how awesome tonight was but I feel we do need to give Iwan Rheon a much deserved round of applause for delivering an outstanding performance as Ramsey.

The only thing that was just as satisfying was Dany saying one tiny word: "Dracaris......"

I will always hate that guy.

 And sadly, its because he is such a good actor and he sold Ramsay.

But yeah, I saw a commercial of him for some other show he is on.  And all I thought was "this motherfucker....."

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I got all confused. What back up army did Sansa bring in? Oh nm..... I saw above it was Littlefinger to the rescue. 

And I just wonder what she had to promise him in order for him to get the army to actually ride for her.  I guess she is going to be Mrs. Littlefinger, or he is going to become warden of the North, or whatever.  That way he can have control of both Robin Arryn, and Sansa.

7 hours ago, maydaymayday said:

Is Jon pissed at Sansa for calling in Littlefinger?

You know, I wonder if she didn't tell him because she thought Jon wouldn't accept LF's help, so she had to do it behind his back.

Jon has his pride and his honor.  I think Sansa just wanted her home back....and to kill Ramsay.  So she would even take help from LF.

[Geneve138]

I have a theory that there won't be anyone sitting on the iron throne at the end. I think Dany will conquer Westeros, reestablish the 7 kingdoms and place deserving people on the throne of each one ( Yara could be the first!) and then continue "west of Westeros" to carry on conquering.  We've been told already (and seen) that Dany is a conqueror not a ruler.....

[AliShibaz]

6 hours ago, Drogo said:

If the men on this show would listen to the women on this show, 96% of problems would be solved already. 

<snip>

What about Cersei?

 

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

6 minutes ago, Geneve138 said:

I have a theory that there won't be anyone sitting on the iron throne at the end. I think Dany will conquer Westeros, reestablish the 7 kingdoms and place deserving people on the throne of each one ( Yara could be the first!) and then continue "west of Westeros" to carry on conquering.  We've been told already (and seen) that Dany is a conqueror not a ruler.....

You mean maybe they will install a Democracy?

Stranger things have happened.

[Geneve138]

12 minutes ago, AliShibaz said:

What about Cersei?

 

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

You mean maybe they will install a Democracy?

Stranger things have happened.

Not a democracy per se....I don't think they'll have an election or anything. But instead of there being 1 iron throne that rules all of Westeros, maybe there will be a kingsom in the north (maybe John to rule?) and a kingsom in the river lands ((Sansa?) kingdom of kings landing (Margery?), etc...maybe Dany will establish allies who help her conquer Westeros/take down the white walkers, and then these people rule and she moves on. Just a shot in the dark!! I'm trying to guess at how so many characters' storylines can wrap up with only 1 throne to be had....

[SimoneS]

My morning after and re-watch thoughts . The CGI on the dragons is amazing. So they were locked up all that time. Just unchained. Did Drogon call to his siblings or did Daenerys? I was glad that Daenerys wisely only destroyed one ship. I have always thought her fortunate in choosing her advisors who have given her wise advice. They do not always give the best advice, but I love that she sticks to her instinct to protect women and children along with the powerless from those would would harm and exploit them. She made it clear to Yara that the Ironborn had to stop the raids and rapes for her to agree to the alliance. Daenerys will be the best ruler that Westeros has ever had and the people with nothing will prosper under her rule. 

I cannot believe that I missed Lyanna Mormont giving Ramsey the stink eye. I love her. I am sure that she was kept safe by her advisors, but I hope some of her men survived the battle.

I hope that Sansa tells Jon the truth about Littlefinger, the whole truth, including the truth about him poisoning Joffrey.

Davos now knows that Melisandre burnt Shireen. It might not happen this season, but I hope that he gets revenge for sweet Shireen before the show is over. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by SimoneS

[revbfc]

What makes no sense to me was Ramsay thinking he was safe from siege in  Winterfell.  He saw Wun Wun, right?  He knew a bona fide giant survived the battle and was chasing him back to the castle, right?  Was it just his first experience with fear messing with his mind?  

ETA:

I wish the make up people had made Ramsay's face more damaged after Jon beat him down.  He should have had a MUCH more swollen face and two black eyes after that.

Edited June 20, 2016 by revbfc

[Neurochick]

Ramsay to Sansa:  You'll never forget me.

Sansa to Ramsay: You're a non motherfucking factor.

Dogs: Tastes like chicken.

I have a feeling it was done for dramatic effect, but the dogs took their own sweet time attacking Ramsay, especially if they hadn't eaten in a week.  I mean I used to have a tom cat who would run into the kitchen if he heard the cutting board come down and knew he was going to get turkey.  Besides, Ramsay was probably mean to those dogs.  What was good about that scene is even though we didn't see what was happening, we heard it. 

I knew Jon wasn't going to get killed because I was like, "they're not going to bring him back just to kill him AGAIN." 

I laughed when Ramsay ran into the castle like a little coward, he couldn't even fight Jon hand to hand.  I had a feeling Ramsay was a goner because of the title of the episode, "Battle of the Bastards," like I didn't know which one was going to win.

[Deanie87]

Honestly, I could really do without all of the excessive gore.  I guess I can't watch live anymore because I ended up muting the tv or changing the channel through most of the episode, and I'm sure that I missed a bunch stuff.  I love this show and I'm fine with the occasional stomach-churning violence, but when it is 3/4 of the episode I just can't take it.  I know that it is a battle and it was well done (at least the few bits that I saw) but ugh.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It just occurred to me that the dog that ate Ramsey's face could have been a Cane Corso and not a Dogo Argentino. I am not good at distinguishing between the breeds, but the dog looked like it was in the Mastiff family.

At first glance i thought it was a Bull Mastiff or or Italian Mastiff. I agree, looks like it's in that family. The Cane Corso and Dogo Argentino are both excellent suggestions as well.

[terrymct]

So, the Starks are back in Winterfell. Consequences of this episode: - The only "natural born" male heir to Ned Stark that they know of is dead. RIP poor Rickon. You were never more than a wee plot point. - Judging by the mountain sized pile of bodies out in the field, there really aren't many able bodied men left in the North. The families and the wildlings lined up either with Jon or Ramsey. Who is left to fight the White Walkers and their zombie army? The army of the Vale and a handful of survivors. Will anyone from the other regions send them men? - Sansa, WTF have you become? No Stark kills people like that, even if it's Ramsey. Did he deserve it? Probably. The Stark way would have been to decapitate him. Is this a sign of things you'll be doing? Are you warped now? Can your friends and family bring you back? - Dany and Yara make a good team and they may have just changed the whole raison d'etre of the Iron Isles. Will the Greyjoys have to change their family motto and start planting a few crops? Not much arable land on those rocks, but then again apparently they have trees to build ships that we haven't been shown so maybe they have a few meadows. - Mereen now has the magic mix. Three dragons that fly freely and fight. A whole bunch of fighters, between the Unsullied, the Dothraki, and the freed slaves. Boats enough to carry them to Westeros (It seemed from what was said that some of the Masters' ships weren't torched, then there are the Greyjoy ships). Will Dany finally leave the desert where she's been largely parked until the plotlines in Westeros are ready for her? - Davos is going to move on Melisandre. Given his reserve he probably won't walk up to her and whack her head off on the spot, although she kind of deserves that. He'll go for the measured, reasonable response but I hope he gives in a bit to his anger because I'm angry and would like a surrogate to avenge Shireen.

(Sorry for the wacky formatting. I've upgraded to Windows 10 and since then the forums are borked. I'm trying to figure out what the issue is.) Edited June 20, 2016 by terrymct

[myname2use4now]

7 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

I kept yelling, "Serpentine!  Serpentine!"  I can't remember the title, but it was a movie with Peter Falk where he was a spy and teaching someone how to dodge gunfire.  

OMG...I thought I was the only one. For your viewing pleasure: Serpentine!

Lady Mormont wins for giving the best stink-eye ever in the history of TV. Why do I think she's the only one who can make Dany flinch?

This episode had some of the most beautiful cinematography I've ever seen. There were stills from this episode that could have been an old masters painting. Beautifully done and the GoT staff was truly at the top of their game.

The ladies of GoT are really driving this season, aren't they. Loved the interaction between Yara and Dany.

And one more thing...good doggie! "They are loyal beasts"..."and now they're starving". Damn Sansa. You deserved that smirk.

[garyvp]

And one more thing, "Serpentine, Rickon, serpentine".

You know nothin' John Snow! He lead into battle with his emotions and ego, right into an obvious trap.  Shields? Did they not consider they might be under a shower of arrows at some point?

Not sure Sansa knew Little Finger's exact ETA or she might have let on to Jon to hold back a wee bit.

[ToniG]

7 hours ago, GrailKing said:

So I'm on the rewatch,

  Hide contents

Art Parkinson said pay close attention to him in an interview, all I really see is him either in deep thinking or praying before running, he said feral a couple of times I think.

His death seemed firm but I saw nothing there.

Thoughts on it?

Also Thormund said to himself as we are seeing Jon and Ramsey stare: "DON'T" a clear indication Jon broke his own plan.

Right before running, it looked as though Rickon was attempting to warg. 

7 hours ago, GrailKing said:

[garyvp]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Davos now knows that Melisandre burnt Shireen. It might not happen this season, but I hope that he gets revenge for sweet Shireen before the show is over. 

I am sure Melisandre will explain that Shireen was the price of admission to victory, and then Bravos will kill her.