S02.E06: Bali Ha'i

[DrSpaceman73]

I disagree.  He wouldn't want her to risk jail and her career for $10K.  They didn't cash the check that they got from that earlier scam. 

 

I think one of the reasons Kim doesn't shine with HHM is that she's too familiar to them.  It's sort of like that "prophet in his own country" thing, or partners in a long relationship -- no mystery.  They've known her for ten years.  They know everything she can do.  They take her for granted. 

 

I don't think Jimmy had anything to do with the Schweikart offer -- at least not directly.  He's nobody to them.

Jimmy is the one responsible for the Sandpiper case and they know it. That's not a "nobody"

Maybe Jimmy is not behind the offer to Kim, but there is just no way you see her in the courtroom and think "Oh I have to put her on a partner track" just based on those few minutes at her job. or simply because she was doing it herself and he feels some kinship based on what he experienced in the past. Plus he knew way too many details about her and her job situation. Someone is behind that job offer. And I think that is her hesitation about it as well. It just doesn't add up, you get offered as easy way out of the difficult situation without so much as an interview. And she is right to be hesitant for that reason. It seems to be more of her being caught up in the manipulative games of Jimmy/Howard/CHuck somehow.

Someone mentioned Howard being behind it. I don't see that happening. He seemed genuinely pissed at her on that short walk to the meeting. Why he would find her a job at another firm or use it to set her up somehow, I have no idea.

[SailorGirl]

I assume they just used period-appropriate stock footage from C-SPAN, and the voice was just the presiding officer of the Senate in that moment calling for Senator Daniel Akaka of Hawaii to vote or speak or whatever. I don't see any particular reason why they'd overdub his voice with Bryan Cranston's.

I didn't watch this last night (Nyquil severe is your friend if you get the flu bug that's going around) and am watching it now. But of course I read the thread today and saw this, so I was paying close attention. 

 

It sure as hell sounded like Bryan Cranston and Jimmy did give a little shoulder shrug/chuckle -- it was very subtle but I wonder if it was a wink to the audience about the Easter egg -- so I'm going out on a limb and saying it was a Cranston voiceover. Cranston has been known to do that type of thing and it is definitely something that could easily go unnoticed -- the perfect Easter Egg! I guess we'll know for sure when the DVD comes out, or if they talk about it on Talking Saul. . . . 

Looking forward to the rest of the episode (and FF-ing through the commercials). I will say this -- our boy cannot sing to save his life! That Bali Hai song was awesomely awful!

Sailorgirl

Edited March 23, 2016 by SailorGirl

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't see Mike and Walter as alike at all. Walt was not a meticulous planner but very good at thinking on his feet. He was a petty, insecure, self-centered man who used his family as an excuse for his illegal activities and wreaked havoc on everyone (his family included) he touched in the last 18 months of his life to feed his insatiable ego and sense of personal vengeance. I agree that Mike's guilt over his son drives a lot of his actions and makes him fine with walking into a situation he may not walk out of, but I think he is trying to do right by Kaylee. Mike also has no delusions of grandeur about what he really is.

Ah, I stand corrected. I see my zero semesters of law school have finally caught up to me. ;)

Walt was trying to do right by Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly. Once he made the decision to cook meth, he was pretty much forced into most of his other evil acts to preserve his own life and protect his loved ones.

That is, until after he killed Fring. He could have walked away with nothing at that point but insisted on going back into business. I suppose you could chalk that up to him trying to provide for his family as well, but he clearly had the option to walk away.

When he really became driven totally by pride and arrogance was when he decided to turn down the $5 million buyout from Declan. That decision lead to a horrific amount of death and ruin.

As for Mike, we have so far only seen the beginning and end of his criminal career. But, becoming an enforcer and hired killer for a cartel connected drug kingpin is as or more evil than what Walt did up until Fring's death.

I suspect we will see a similar scenario with Mike, where he is drawn into more and more heinous crimes by circumstances that arose from his initial choice to break bad.

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't see Mike and Walter as alike at all. Walt was not a meticulous planner but very good at thinking on his feet. He was a petty, insecure, self-centered man who used his family as an excuse for his illegal activities and wreaked havoc on everyone (his family included) he touched in the last 18 months of his life to feed his insatiable ego and sense of personal vengeance. I agree that Mike's guilt over his son drives a lot of his actions and makes him fine with walking into a situation he may not walk out of, but I think he is trying to do right by Kaylee. Mike also has no delusions of grandeur about what he really is.

Again, I am not saying they are exactly alike, just there are many similarities in how they operate.

If you don't think Walt was a meticulous planner, well, maybe we watched different shows in Breaking Bad. The way he planned out the nursing home explosion to kill Gus was masterful. He convinced a group of doctors a child had ricin poisoning for a period of time when in reality it was a harmless plant used. They pulled off a heist of a train in the middle of the desert.

If you want a show about a drug dealer who simply got lucky time and again and didn't plan anything, watch Weeds. Nancy was a freakin' idiot, should have died many times over her stupidity and sexuality.

[Bannon]

Walt was trying to do right by Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly. Once he made the decision to cook meth, he was pretty much forced into most of his other evil acts to preserve his own life and protect his loved ones.

That is, until after he killed Fring. He could have walked away with nothing at that point but insisted on going back into business. I suppose you could chalk that up to him trying to provide for his family as well, but he clearly had the option to walk away.

When he really became driven totally by pride and arrogance was when he decided to turn down the $5 million buyout from Declan. That decision lead to a horrific amount of death and ruin.

As for Mike, we have so far only seen the beginning and end of his criminal career. But, becoming an enforcer and hired killer for a cartel connected drug kingpin is as or more evil than what Walt did up until Fring's death.

I suspect we will see a similar scenario with Mike, where he is drawn into more and more heinous crimes by circumstances that arose from his initial choice to break bad.

I really have to differ with the notion that Walt was ever primariy motivated by the desire to care for his family. Very early on, when his former partners learned of his cancer diagnosis, they offered, with their gigantic resources, to take care of Walt's family by giving him a no-show job with compensation that would have far exceeded what Walt was initially trying to make selling meth, before dying. He turned it down, simply beause his ego woudn't let him accept it, and instead decided to place his family in gigantic danger. Walter White was about as vile a human being as can be imagined, for someone who didn't commit a murder until he was deep into middle age.

 

Mike is no saint, but if you gave him an easy way to put aside several hundred thousand dollars for his granddaughter, on condition that he commit no crimes, and simply sit in his parking lot booth, until he died, he'd take it in a second. What motivates Mike is grief and feelings of guilt.

[Lurky McLurkerson]

Walt was trying to do right by Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly. Once he made the decision to cook meth, he was pretty much forced into most of his other evil acts to preserve his own life and protect his loved ones.

 

Sufficed to say I'm not Team Walt -- that's not at all how I view Walter White or his actions.  The cracks in his veneer showed up very early in the series (the first of which was the brilliant episode that Bannon cites above).

 

I think Mike is fundamentally different (and it's more pronounced in BCS because he's a main character) because Mike know what he's doing and makes no excuses for why he's doing it.  I think he has little (probably only Kaylee) left to live for and is doing what he knows how to do best to provide her financial security -- but Mike seems to have no illusion that he's doing something noble.  As he told Pryce in "Pimento", they're criminals, which is not he same as good guy/bad guy.  He pragmatic and doesn't have romanticized rationale for his actions.  (And, it's part of what has always made Mike so fun to watch -- his again-with-this-shit annoyance at the amateurs he has to deal with and matter-of-fact approach even to his enforcer/wet works duties.)

 

If you don't think Walt was a meticulous planner, well, maybe we watched different shows in Breaking Bad. The way he planned out the nursing home explosion to kill Gus was masterful. He convinced a group of doctors a child had ricin poisoning for a period of time when in reality it was a harmless plant used. They pulled off a heist of a train in the middle of the desert.

 

Nope, same show, different impression.  Gus Fring was a meticulous planner with a good long game.  Mike is careful and comes prepared (loved the carbon paper under the mat, snuck in right under the nose of a Salamanca foot soldier and his murder of the corrupt officers was brilliantly laid out with the drowning-his-sorrows setup).  Walt was a master manipulator who could talk himself out of nearly any situation.  There was a lot of flying by the seat of his pants, and even Vince Gilligan has called him lucky, at least with regard to "Felina".  Not that he never planned, but, particularly in contrast to Gus and Mike, Walt was not so meticulous.

The Tio Hector plan was the last in a line of schemes to off Gus. The ricin didn't work, the car bomb didn't work, turning a hate-filled old man into a suicide bomber did. That was throwing spaghetti at a wall until something stuck in stark contract to Gus's orchestrated massacre of the cartel. (Rewatching season 4 now, and loving it even more.)

 

Walt didn't speak to Brock's doctors at all. He planted the ricin idea with Jesse and Andrea, and the highly poisonous Lily-of-the-Valley was not at all harmless (and, in Walt's backyard, which indicates to spur-of-the-moment versus planning).  And he landed Jesse in an interrogation room over it, too, at a time he was trying to incite Jesse to murder Gus by suggesting Gus poisoned Brock.  Kind of hard for your patsy to commit a murder when he's with the police.

 

And, if I recall correctly, the train heist was a group plan involving Walt, Mike, Jesse, and stupid Todd (sorry, Jesse Plemmons - I loved Landry!), and the plan was initially Lydia's.  Like wise, the laptop-destroying magnet plan was borne out of Jesse's idea and planned by Walt, Mike, Jesse, and the junkyard guy.

 

Walt also fucked himself over by being too prideful to let Hank believe Gale was Heisenberg -- Gus Fring would have smiled and congratulated Hank on his excellent sleuthing while plotting out the expansion of his meth empire.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Lurky McLurkerson

[Irlandesa]

Walt was trying to do right by Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly. Once he made the decision to cook meth, he was pretty much forced into most of his other evil acts to preserve his own life and protect his loved ones.

 

 

I really have to differ with the notion that Walt was ever primariy motivated by the desire to care for his family. Very early on, when his former partners learned of his cancer diagnosis, they offered, with their gigantic resources, to take care of Walt's family by giving him a no-show job with compensation that would have far exceeded what Walt was initially trying to make selling meth, before dying. He turned it down, simply beause his ego woudn't let him accept it, and instead decided to place his family in gigantic danger.

Speaking to characters with great long games and master manipulators, Walt had another chance to walk away.  In his mind, he was done working for Gus. So what did Gus do?  He lets Walt know that he's buying Jesse's batch of meth cooked using Walt's recipe and shows Walt the superlab.  For Walt, that was about pride, ego and power in its own way.

[Bryce Lynch]

Sufficed to say I'm not Team Walt -- that's not at all how I view Walter White or his actions. The cracks in his veneer showed up very early in the series (the first of which was the brilliant episode that Bannon cites above).

I think Mike is fundamentally different (and it's more pronounced in BCS because he's a main character) because Mike know what he's doing and makes no excuses for why he's doing it. I think he has little (probably only Kaylee) left to live for and is doing what he knows how to do best to provide her financial security -- but Mike seems to have no illusion that he's doing something noble. As he told Pryce in "Pimento", they're criminals, which is not he same as good guy/bad guy. He pragmatic and doesn't have romanticized rationale for his actions. (And, it's part of what has always made Mike so fun to watch -- his again-with-this-shit annoyance at the amateurs he has to deal with and matter-of-fact approach even to his enforcer/wet works duties.)

Nope, same show, different impression. Gus Fring was a meticulous planner with a good long game. Mike is careful and comes prepared (loved the carbon paper under the mat, snuck in right under the nose of a Salamanca foot soldier and his murder of the corrupt officers was brilliantly laid out with the drowning-his-sorrows setup). Walt was a master manipulator who could talk himself out of nearly any situation. There was a lot of flying by the seat of his pants, and even Vince Gilligan has called him lucky, at least with regard to "Felina". Not that he never planned, but, particularly in contrast to Gus and Mike, Walt was not so meticulous.

The Tio Hector plan was the last in a line of schemes to off Gus. The ricin didn't work, the car bomb didn't work, turning a hate-filled old man into a suicide bomber did. That was throwing spaghetti at a wall until something stuck in stark contract to Gus's orchestrated massacre of the cartel. (Rewatching season 4 now, and loving it even more.)

Walt didn't speak to Brock's doctors at all. He planted the ricin idea with Jesse and Andrea, and the highly poisonous Lily-of-the-Valley was not at all harmless (and, in Walt's backyard, which indicates to spur-of-the-moment versus planning). And he landed Jesse in an interrogation room over it, too, at a time he was trying to incite Jesse to murder Gus by suggesting Gus poisoned Brock. Kind of hard for your patsy to commit a murder when he's with the police.

And, if I recall correctly, the train heist was a group plan involving Walt, Mike, Jesse, and stupid Todd (sorry, Jesse Plemmons - I loved Landry!), and the plan was initially Lydia's. Like wise, the laptop-destroying magnet plan was borne out of Jesse's idea and planned by Walt, Mike, Jesse, and the junkyard guy.

Walt also fucked himself over by being too prideful to let Hank believe Gale was Heisenberg -- Gus Fring would have smiled and congratulated Hank on his excellent sleuthing while plotting out the expansion of his meth empire.

Fring planned to kill Walt. Walt planned to kill Fring. Who won?

[shapeshifter]

Maybe Jimmy is not behind the offer to Kim, but there is just no way you see her in the courtroom and think "Oh I have to put her on a partner track" just based on those few minutes at her job. or simply because she was doing it herself and he feels some kinship based on what he experienced in the past. Plus he knew way too many details about her and her job situation. Someone is behind that job offer. And I think that is her hesitation about it as well. It just doesn't add up, you get offered as easy way out of the difficult situation without so much as an interview. And she is right to be hesitant for that reason. It seems to be more of her being caught up in the manipulative games of Jimmy/Howard/CHuck somehow.

Someone mentioned Howard being behind it. I don't see that happening. He seemed genuinely pissed at her on that short walk to the meeting. Why he would find her a job at another firm or use it to set her up somehow, I have no idea.

I was one of those, and my rationale was that it was a way to get rid of Kim, and that his motive to get rid of her was that he knew that she and Jimmy were bad influences on each other. Maybe he also thought Jimmy would follow Kim to the new firm.

But it's just a theory based on what I saw in this episode. I'm fine with being proven wrong.

Edited March 23, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Constantinople]

That said, Mike, Hector, Nacho, and the cousins are saving this show for me, in spite of the annoying legal machinations that we are only partly in on, although I can certainly see why the show is fascinating for lawyers.  Of course, Odenkirk is a genius, I just adore watching him, but yeah, I didn't buy that he would take that much shit from Erin.

Right now Mike is the primary reason I'm watching the show. Not that the other stuff is turning me off, just I find it a little less interesting at this time.

[Bannon]

Right now Mike is the primary reason I'm watching the show. Not that the other stuff is turning me off, just I find it a little less interesting at this time.

Jaul just isn't nearly as interesting, or just as importantly, hilariously funny, when he isn't running a squat cobbler on some poor dumb buffalos. Luckily, it appears from the previews that he is about to return to his essential artistry. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Better Call Saul Gives Us A Chilling Look At Howard In 'Sleep Mode'
And Kim a chilling look at what her future at HHM might be.

[Bannon]

Speaking to characters with great long games and master manipulators, Walt had another chance to walk away.  In his mind, he was done working for Gus. So what did Gus do?  He lets Walt know that he's buying Jesse's batch of meth cooked using Walt's recipe and shows Walt the superlab.  For Walt, that was about pride, ego and power in its own way.

I think the contrast in these two shows, in terms of themes and motivations, is fascinating. BB, to me, was a show that entailed almost all the major chracters (certainly Walt, Jesse, and Hank) doing huge harm to others, in service to their pride. BCS seems to me to be about people who are driven by grief and loss, by death, dissolving relationships, and the ending of dreams. The fact that BCS can be so frequently so damned funny, with these motivations for characters, is a tribute to great writing.

[Lurky McLurkerson]

Fring planned to kill Walt. Walt planned to kill Fring. Who won?

 

Well, in the Fring v. White battle and assuming you mean who walked away from the head-to-head, literal "sudden-death" round, clearly White did, but I'm not willing to chalk that up to Walt being a better planner (and Gus lost because he gave into a very uncharacteristic, Walt-like need to gloat and take revenge on Hector) nor being better at the game itself.  

 

And what did Walt "win"?  Maybe another year of his life unraveling at a frenetic pace, destroying his life and relationships with everyone he loved (or claimed to), a cross-country trip in a tanker truck, and months of solitude and having to pay $10K for a single card game before going out with a glorious bang after blackmailing the Schwartzes to get money to the family he whose lives he ruined, to the son that wouldn't take the money from him and wished him dead.

 

Fring lived for years hiding in plain sight, enjoying the fruits of his illicit profits more than Walt ever could.  Allowing Walt into his carefully crafted life against his initial gut instinct was one of his few mistakes, but clearly a fatal one.  I'm still calling the long game for Gus.  

 

Pretty much everyone in the BB world is better off without Walter White in their lives, which is how we ended up with a prequel for the spin-off, I think.  There was nowhere interesting forward from there (as beautifully illustrated by poor Gene the Cinnabon manager's B&W scenes -- and the more I see of Jimmy McGill, the more hellish Gene's existence looks -- the guy who lives for attention and showmanship has to fade into the background of the mall food court), so we have to go to the past for a story, which I think is more of a challenge for the writers because the "ending" is already written in stone.

 

I think the contrast in these two shows, in terms of themes and motivations, is fascinating. BB, to me, was a show that entailed almost all the major chracters (certainly Walt, Jesse, and Hank) doing huge harm to others, in service to their pride. BCS seems to me to be about people who are driven by grief and loss, by death, dissolving relationships, and the ending of dreams. The fact that BCS can be so frequently so damned funny, with these motivations for characters, is a tribute to great writing.

I love this analysis.  And grief, dissolving relationships, and the death of dreams can be slow-moving stuff that certain explain the slower pace of the show (whereas BB hurtled you down the track at breakneck speed toward the finale just like the clock ticked at increasing intensity from Walt's diagnosis to demise).  I have a hard time gauging if BCS seems slow to me because it IS slow-moving, of if I'm still expecting the BB pace.  I think Gilligan & Co. have a wonderful knack for finding humor in sadness and the grotesque, too.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Lurky McLurkerson

[ketose]

We learned lot about Kim tonight. She also worked her way up from the mailroom and owes tuition money. I guess she didn't go to the University of American Samoa or she could have probably paid it off with her 3rd paycheck.

Most importantly we know that she founded Ice Station Zebra Associates. I wonder if this means she goes into practice with Jimmy/Saul in the future.

Wait. When did she do that?

[Misstify]

That was the fake company name on the check from the mark that Giselle and Jimmy scammed. There is no actual Ice Station Zebra Associates.

[TVFan17]

Right now Mike is the primary reason I'm watching the show. Not that the other stuff is turning me off, just I find it a little less interesting at this time.

 

Agreed.  I am watching every minute of the show, and I am following along with what's happening with the other characters -- but, to be honest, Kim and her job woes are not why I am tuning in.  A montage of endless Kim phone calls is not why I am tuning in.  It's mildly interesting to me, but I would not be tuning in to BCS to watch her story alone.  I would not be tuning in solely to watch law office politics and dynamics.   I might be more interested in Jimmy and Chuck's relationship, but it feels like we keep seeing variations of the same thing between them and I want it to hurry up and get wherever it's going, because I keep thinking it is leading up to something. 

 

So, for me, right now, although I am watching the other stories on the show too, other than Jimmy himself, I'm all about Mike, the entire Salamanca clan, Krazy 8, KENWINS, the toy pig, and any location that was previously seen in BB.  Essentially, anyone and anything that came from Breaking Bad is what is keeping me tuned in -- or, at least, those things have more appeal to me than Howard, Chuck and Kim have at the moment..

Edited March 23, 2016 by Sherry67

[Blakeston]

It's a fair point, and I do respect that there is a chain of command and people have the right to manage their own business the way they please, but Clifford didn't say "Brilliant idea but please next time run it by us first."  They had a look of horror on their faces like the foundations of Western civilization were in danger because Jimmy didn't kiss the ring.

If I ran a company, and someone I'd hired a month ago made an ad for the company and ran it without telling anyone, I'd fire him on the spot. I doubt I'd congratulate him on the idea, even if it was a good one.

if I ran a completely different ad later, would that make me a hypocrite? Would it make me someone who just wanted my ring kissed?

 

Maybe Jimmy is not behind the offer to Kim, but there is just no way you see her in the courtroom and think "Oh I have to put her on a partner track" just based on those few minutes at her job. or simply because she was doing it herself and he feels some kinship based on what he experienced in the past. Plus he knew way too many details about her and her job situation. Someone is behind that job offer. And I think that is her hesitation about it as well. It just doesn't add up, you get offered as easy way out of the difficult situation without so much as an interview.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that Schweikart made the offer impulsively, just because he liked what he saw in court that day. He'd obviously done some research on her, and put a considerable amount of thought into it.

That doesn't necessarily mean someone else is behind the offer, though. With a huge case like this, I would expect him to be fully aware of everything the opposition has done and said in court. He could have decided she would be a great asset based on that. And he might have come to the conclusion that he'd rather have her on his team than on the opposing one.

 

That was the fake company name on the check from the mark that Giselle and Jimmy scammed. There is no actual Ice Station Zebra Associates.

The name also came up on Breaking Bad. Skyler was issued a check from Ice Station Zebra Associates. It's the name of the holding company that Saul used.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Blakeston

[RCharter]

If I ran a company, and someone I'd hired a month ago made an ad for the company and ran it without telling anyone, I'd fire him on the spot. I doubt I'd congratulate him on the idea, even if it was a good one.

if I ran a completely different ad later, would that make me a hypocrite? Would it make me someone who just wanted my ring kissed?

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that Schweikart made the offer impulsively, just because he liked what he saw in court that day. He'd obviously done some research on her, and put a considerable amount of thought into it.

I agree with your point about the commercial.  I'm surprised they actually gave him a second chance, and I secretly think that Jimmy would have been fine getting fired over it.  The timing of Kim's offer is highly suspect, IMO, just because its so messy.  Why hire her in the middle of discovery/strategy?  Seems odd, but I'm not sure what the ulterior motive would be.  I don't think it would be worth it to try to pimp her for information, because HHM/D&M would be looking for any sign that is happening.  It could be strategy to muddy the waters and hope the case can be prolonged/delayed by the mere appearance of a potential ethics conflict, but if anything, it sounds like it would take S&C out of the case, which would be counter to their interests.  But, its hard to ignore the messy timing of the offer, but maybe its all just coincidence.

[Bryce Lynch]

Wait. When did she do that?

The check she conned the guy in the bar into giving her was payable to Ice Station Zebra Associates. Of course she hasn't actually set up the company yet, but the fact that she used it in her con suggests that she might be in business with Saul in the future.

[BCSFanGraz]

Could be, but I think as someone else mentioned it might be a silly chess move.  S&C is going to get paid either way, and its a pretty big risk.  You can bet that everyone at HHM and D&M would be looking for any sign that Kim is somehow involved in the case or giving S&C information.  Now, its possible that S uses some perceived ethical violation by Kim to get the case dismissed or delayed.  But I can't see how S&C walks away from that sort of thing unscathed so it doesn't seem likely.  And  I'm not sure its a trust thing with Kim.  She blew off Howard's assignment after the meeting, which reads to me like someone who has a "to hell with you, I got another gig" attitude.  She had the phone in her hand, ready to dial when she saw "the con" and did that instead.  However, you could say that she may have been calling him to tell him that she couldn't take the job, but if she wasn't going to take the job, she could have made that call after doing her work for Howard.

 

If it's a chess move, no doubt it could be a silly one. But, you have to remember how arrogant Schweichert was when he first came on. The guy clearly has an ego that matches Chuck's.  As for your other statements, eh, one thing I've learned in life is who knows why people do the things they do.  Ya know?

[wendyg]

My assumption watching Kim and Schweikert was that yes, he regarded her as an asset - to HHM and their case. From the fact that no one accompanied her to the hearing, he concluded she might be frustrated and that if he pitched her and hired her, she would *no longer be a problem for him on the case*. Then he can dump her after she's lost her job at HHM.

 

The timing makes her absolutely right to be wary.

[RCharter]

Did you make another response to me that you deleted?  Aside from this comment, I'm being told that you made a response at 7:22, but, this one at 7:13 is the only one I see.

No, I don't think so...not sure whats up with that!

[BCSFanGraz]

 

I think there are a lot of similarities between Walt and Mike. Both turned to the illegal drug trade to provide for their families. I also think Mike might be just as greedy as Walt was at the start of BB.

Originally, Walt only wanted $737,000 to provide for his family after he died.

We know Mike put away $2 million for Kaylee, twice. Walt only started to get really greedy after he killed Fring and even then it was more pride than greed. I wonder if Mike is driven by pride as well. Being a badass, ninja fixer/enforcer is a lot more glamorous than being a parking lot attendant.

 

 

Well, of course there's a lot of similarities between Walt and Mike, but, there's just as many, if not more differences.  You're wrong about Mike turning to the drug trade, though.  Both turned to illegal means to provide for their families, yes.  However, as of this moment, Mike is not in the drug trade, he's just doing illegal fixer/bodyguard type work right now for different people.  However, all of Mike's actions so far has been from doing things for people who come to him, not the other way around.  Mike isn't greedy at all, he's trying to support his daughter in law and granddaughter. 

 

I agree with you when it comes to Walt that it was greed.  With Mike, I think he probably does a lot of things for the thrill of it.  I genuinely don't believe there's a single greedy bone in Mike's body.  If Mike was so greedy, he'd be keeping that money (or at least half of it) for himself, not putting it away for his family.  As for the amount of money he put away for Kaylie, you also have to remember, as Walt found out with the Tuco situation, sometimes things come up, especially in their lines of work, respectively, that can only be fixed by spending a lot of money.  So, for every dollar he takes from Kaylie's stash to cover his own butt, he's gotta put that back.

As for whats "glamorous", do you really think Mike would have been a career cop if he wanted glamour?  C'mon, now...

 

 

 

Mike's meeting with Hector was clearly an allusion to Walt's first meeting with Tuco in "Crazy Handful of Nothin'". Both of them stood up to a dangerous cartel leader, impressed them with their balls, and walked out with $50,000.

 

 

Hmm, very good point. I usually catch stuff like that and I didn't this time.

 

Also, both had Marco and Leonel threatening them and their loved ones. Seeing them threaten to kill Kaylee makes me think Mike must have taken great pleasure in finishing off Leonel in the hospital.

I think we are starting to see why Mike was both so annoyed by and had a soft spot for Walt. He sees a lot of himself in Walt.

 

 

Wow.. I forgot about Mike killing Leonel.. good memory (and I've even gone back to re-watching Breaking Bad between BCS eps, BUT, I'm only at the end of season 2, so far).  But, yeah.. good points here.

 

[RCharter]

I always felt Walt's motivation was always ego based.  I mean, he had more money than he could count or ever use, he never really changed his lifestyle IIRC.  He got the new cars, but they were nowhere near "PLAYAH" level.  I don't think Mike is motivated by greed, but using money to make himself feel better about the guilt he has over his sons death by taking care of his family....and as a way to stay connected to his granddaughter and take care of her because he feels like he is part of the reason her father isn't here.  And I think for Mike, he doesn't have much, but all he has is this little family, and it was probably all he ever had.  He went to get lengths to avenge his sons death, so it seems like family is super important to him....providing for his granddaughter would be part of that.  I don't think Mike cares about being a badass, which I think makes him so much more of a badass.  The guy that he met with all the guns when getting that bodyguard job...thats the sort of guy that reads "wanna be badass/ninja" type to me.

Edited March 23, 2016 by RCharter

[BCSFanGraz]

No.  What I MEANT to say was that Mike got off easy with those two particular guys being buffoons and generally inefficient/ineffective/ineffectual criminals.  If the Cousins had been in his house, it could have gone a much different way (even though we knew he would survive to the BB story).  I mean, yes, he is Mike and he is amazing, but we have seen what the Cousins can do and he might have ended up on the losing end in that situation if they had been in his house. 

 

So he got off easy with those specific guys being 2 dunderheads in his house.

 

I don't think the goons are buffoons or inefficient.  I think in the face of your average person that they would be sent to scare, that their tactics and skills would be up to par just fine.  But, Mike is no average person and he's practically a one man army. So, it's just that they weren't prepared for him to be so smart and good.

I disagree about the cousins.  Even Luis and Danny said in an interview recently regarding how their characters are different in BCS compared to how they were from Breaking Bad, Luis Moncada said, "Well, you have to remember to start with that the time period for Better Call Saul takes place a good deal of time before Breaking Bad started.  So, first off, the The Cousins aren't as lethal or smart in their ways, yet.  They're also not as powerful or high up in the cartel as they were in Breaking Bad.  Beacuse they're so young at this point, they are trying to learn from Hector, so they will do anything, without even thinking, to impress him". 

So, even the actors are telling you that the cousins aren't as lethal or savvy on this show as they were on Breaking Bad.  I think that Mike would have had close to the same outcome regardless of who Hector had sent.

I don't think Mike got lucky in any form. I think he's just that good.

What I mean by the comparison is

1. They are both incredibly smart and meticulous in their planning of everything in these schemes

 

 

Agreed.

 

2. The reasons behind their misdeeds in both cases is partly to help their families, though in Walt's case he admits it's more about ego in the last episode, as you point out. In Mike's case it's more guilt in trying to make up for what he did to his son, attempting to make it up now to his granddaughter and daughter in law. Still leads him down a dark path

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

3. They are incredibly gutsy when needed. To demand $50K like he did is comparable to moves Walt made, like when he demanded compensation for Jesse's injuries and blew up half a building

4. They know their "craft" incredibly well, better than anyone. Walt knew chemistry, Mike know's guns, spying, the police side of things, everything associated with it.

 

 

Agreed on every point, 100%.

 

I meant it as a compliment, not as an insult to Mike. Walter White had many positive qualities. It's just he was never able to use those qualities in the most positive manner and let his ego, as you point out, get the best of him.

 

 

I honestly don't remember what your full original post said, so, I don't remember exactly how I took the comment, but, what's important is that I agree with everything you said here.

 

No, I don't think so...not sure whats up with that!

 

HMM.. ok.. thanks

[ElDosEquis]

The check she conned the guy in the bar into giving her was payable to Ice Station Zebra Associates. Of course she hasn't actually set up the company yet, but the fact that she used it in her con suggests that she might be in business with Saul in the future.

Or could he have used the name later on as a 'tribute/headstone' to her?

 

When I heard the ISZ thing come up again, I thought of the guy that kept something from an old flame around, just to remember her by?

[BCSFanGraz]

I think once Hector and the Cousins got involved -- and especially once they started threatening Kaylee -- Nacho knew they needed to cut their losses. He may have no compunction about killing his cousin, but he seems to draw the line at killing small children.

 

Where do you get that Nacho is Tuco's cousin? He's not related.

He's like an emu-faced Jesse.

 

To compare Nacho to Jesse is nuts.  Nacho is capable, Jesse wasn't.   Jesse NEVER didn't mess up.  Messing up is what Jesse did.  I think one of the VERY FEW things Jesse ever did right was killing Gale.

I loved Breaking Bad, but I almost enjoy Better Call Saul even more, as it is so much more grounded (while still having action, of course). This is really an outstanding TV program. Every time I think we're going to run out of awesome current TV shows with shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men ending, we get shows like this one. Thank goodness.

 

By "grounded", I think what you actually mean is more realistic.  I agree that BCS is actually better than Breaking Bad.  Honestly, I'm going through BB all over again between eps of BCS and I'm noticing something I didn't the last time I went through the series again.  I'm finding myself being annoyed at so much.  At Walt's obviousness (how many times are you gonna tell someone on the phone in a high whisper to "not call here again", when your wife's 5 ft behind you and expect her to not hear it? c'mon, now), Skylars ---- [see edit note - DTC] (not sure what the rules about cursing here are) and Jr's ability to completely disrespect his father all through the series.  Then there's Hank's being an all out a hole (also, after hearing the commentaries and pouring through the extras on my DVD's, I get the impression Dean Norris is an a hole in real life, just like Hank is).

Edited March 23, 2016 by David T. Cole
We don't use 'cunt' here unless we're quoting/discussing its use on the show. It is on the hate speech no-no list.

[Bryce Lynch]

Where do you get that Nacho is Tuco's cousin? He's not related.

To compare Nacho to Jesse is nuts. Nacho is capable, Jesse wasn't. Jesse NEVER didn't mess up. Messing up is what Jesse did. I think one of the VERY FEW things Jesse ever did right was killing Gale.

In general, I agree about Jesse, but he did come up huge in Mexico. First, he took control of the lab and aced the cook. Then, he helped Gus and Mike fight their way out and saved their lives.

He also came up with a couple of brilliant ideas that would have worked, but backfired because Walt took them too far. (Wiping Fring's laptop with the magnet and stealing the methylamine from the train and replacing it with water).

His idea to nail Walt by convincing him he had his money was also brilliant, but Hank screwed that up by doing his victory lap instead of getting Walt to jail immediately.

[BCSFanGraz]

 

Hector not only returns but he brings the Salamanca cousins with him! Those motherfuckers still have the amazing ability to just pop out of nowhere like snazzy dressed horror monsters.  And I loved that it was them that caused Mike to have his first legit scare.

 

 

I literally just choked on the piece of chicken I was eating when I read this.  You think Mike was scared?  Dude, he wasn't scared at all, he doesn't get scared.  He was PISSED.  

 

 

 Obviously, anyone would have probably unnerved Mike at that moment with his grand-daughter, but the cousins in general would be the two that really throw him off for a second.  Thankfully, he gets it back together, and manages to convince Hector to give him $50,000, in order to say it was his gun instead.  And he naturally gives half of it back to Nacho because while he might be dealing with criminals, Mike does have a code.  Mike continues to be the best.

 

 

People need to read the recent interview with the Moncada twins that's floating around the net.  In it, Luis Moncada mentions that the twins aren't the same twins you saw in Breaking Bad.  The actor admits that the twins in BCS aren't as vicious, savvy or smart as they were in BB.  

 

 

 

Noticed they had some former Breaking Bad folks behind the camera, with Gennifer Hudson as the writer and Michael Slovis as the director.  There were a definitely a few shots that reminded me of Slovis' past BB episodes.  But I think it is safe to say that Vince Gilligan created a television show family with the BB crew, and they are all for reunions.

 

Um, that's been the case since day 1.  One day, I'd like to go through the whole list of crew and see EXACTLY how many crew members are from BB.

 

[Bryce Lynch]

If I ran a company, and someone I'd hired a month ago made an ad for the company and ran it without telling anyone, I'd fire him on the spot. I doubt I'd congratulate him on the idea, even if it was a good one.

if I ran a completely different ad later, would that make me a hypocrite? Would it make me someone who just wanted my ring kissed?

I don't think anyone is arguing that Schweikart made the offer impulsively, just because he liked what he saw in court that day. He'd obviously done some research on her, and put a considerable amount of thought into it.

That doesn't necessarily mean someone else is behind the offer, though. With a huge case like this, I would expect him to be fully aware of everything the opposition has done and said in court. He could have decided she would be a great asset based on that. And he might have come to the conclusion that he'd rather have her on his team than on the opposing one.

The name also came up on Breaking Bad. Skyler was issued a check from Ice Station Zebra Associates. It's the name of the holding company that Saul used.

Ice Station Zebra Associates was also the company Saul instructed Badger to have the money order for his legal defense made out to. I is his "loan out...totally legit...just for tax purposes." :)

[Bryce Lynch]

Speaking to characters with great long games and master manipulators, Walt had another chance to walk away. In his mind, he was done working for Gus. So what did Gus do? He lets Walt know that he's buying Jesse's batch of meth cooked using Walt's recipe and shows Walt the superlab. For Walt, that was about pride, ego and power in its own way.

I agree about Walt. In the beginning, I believe it was about providing for his family. Later it became about pride, ego and the thrill of it. I don't think greed was ever a huge factor. What's the old saying, "Money is just how we keep score."

He barely spent any of the money. What did he buy, a couple of muscle cars, and a top notch hot water heater. There was the car wash, but that was for money laundering purposes and was really Skyler's baby.

[BCSFanGraz]

In general, I agree about Jesse, but he did come up huge in Mexico. First, he took control of the lab and aced the cook. Then, he helped Gus and Mike fight their way out and saved their lives.

 

 

Yeah, you got a point there, Mexico was another rare time that Jesse actually rose to the challenge, although, while I think he only did so out of fear and self-preservation, the important thing is that he did, indeed, step up in that instance.  Jesse always annoyed me though cuz he constantly used to complain about how Walt always pointed out Jesse's faults, but, IMO, Jesse got mad at that because he knew Walt was right.  Jesse was also trying to be something he wasn't.

 

 

He also came up with a couple of brilliant ideas that would have worked, but backfired because Walt took them too far. (Wiping Fring's laptop with the magnet and stealing the methylamine from the train and replacing it with water).

 

 

Oh, no doubt that Jesse DID have his moments, but, as you said, they were far and few between and for the most part, Jesse was a constant f up.

 

His idea to nail Walt by convincing him he had his money was also brilliant, but Hank screwed that up by doing his victory lap instead of getting Walt to jail immediately.

 

 

Didn't Hank come up with that actual idea?  I thought it was Hank that came up w/ the actual idea of that, but, you may be right. I can't remember.  

Honestly, though, by that time, Walt was deserving what he got.  I lost a TON of respect for Walt after it was revealed that he poisoned the kid, not Gus.  That was especially shitty to do after Gus threatened Holly

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by BCSFanGraz

[Bryce Lynch]

In general, I agree about Jesse, but he did come up huge in Mexico. First, he took control of the lab and aced the cook. Then, he helped Gus and Mike fight their way out and saved their lives.

Yeah, you got a point there, Mexico was another rare time that Jesse actually rose to the challenge, although, while I think he only did so out of fear and self-preservation, the important thing is that he did, indeed, step up in that instance. Jesse always annoyed me though cuz he constantly used to complain about how Walt always pointed out Jesse's faults, but, IMO, Jesse got mad at that because he knew Walt was right. Jesse was also trying to be something he wasn't.

He also came up with a couple of brilliant ideas that would have worked, but backfired because Walt took them too far. (Wiping Fring's laptop with the magnet and stealing the methylamine from the train and replacing it with water).

Oh, no doubt that Jesse DID have his moments, but, as you said, they were far and few between and for the most part, Jesse was a constant f up.

His idea to nail Walt by convincing him he had his money was also brilliant, but Hank screwed that up by doing his victory lap instead of getting Walt to jail immediately.

Didn't Hank come up with that actual idea? I thought it was Hank that came up w/ the actual idea of that, but, you may be right. I can't remember.

Honestly, though, by that time, Walt was deserving what he got. I lost a TON of respect for Walt after it was revealed that he poisoned the kid, not Gus. That was especially shitty to do after Gus threatened Holly

I don't think they explicitly showed who came up with which details of the plan to nail Walt. But the general idea to lure him with his money was definitely Jesse's. The rest was probably a collaborative effort.

[RCharter]

 

I literally just choked on the piece of chicken I was eating when I read this.  You think Mike was scared?  Dude, he wasn't scared at all, he doesn't get scared.  He was PISSED.  

Oh, I think Mike was plenty scared.  And not for himself, but for Kaylee.  I don't think Mike cares whether he lives or dies, but I think he would do anything to protect that little girl.  I think Mike maybe underestimated the ruthlessness of the Salamancas.  If he was pissed vs. scared, I don't think he would have gone out of his way to find Hector and actually negotiate with him.  Right up until that meeting Mike was not going to give into Hector's demands at all, but after that meeting he sort of gave up and gave in.  The 50k was just a way to not be outright punked.

[ShadowFacts]

Oh, I think Mike was plenty scared.  And not for himself, but for Kaylee.  I don't think Mike cares whether he lives or dies, but I think he would do anything to protect that little girl.  I think Mike maybe underestimated the ruthlessness of the Salamancas.  If he was pissed vs. scared, I don't think he would have gone out of his way to find Hector and actually negotiate with him.  Right up until that meeting Mike was not going to give into Hector's demands at all, but after that meeting he sort of gave up and gave in.  The 50k was just a way to not be outright punked.

 

I agree, Mike is not immune to fear, and it would actually be a pretty bad trait in a cop to think there was never anything to be afraid of, or that acting on anger is very wise.  The angry ones end up in the headlines.  He's pretty level-headed, he watches others get messed up with testosterone poisoning, but doesn't go there himself because he's past having to prove himself to anybody. 

[Captanne]

I noticed that when Mike put the towel around Kaylee as she got out of the pool, he hugged her and shielded her with his body.  I think that tells us very vividly who he's living for.

[Bannon]

I agree about Walt. In the beginning, I believe it was about providing for his family. Later it became about pride, ego and the thrill of it. I don't think greed was ever a huge factor. What's the old saying, "Money is just how we keep score."

He barely spent any of the money. What did he buy, a couple of muscle cars, and a top notch hot water heater. There was the car wash, but that was for money laundering purposes and was really Skyler's baby.

Again, Walt had the opportunity, nearly from the start, to provide for his family, without ever endangering them. All he had to do was accept the sympathy from his former partners at Gray Matter Technologies, who are now fabulously wealthy, and take their offer of what was a hugely compensated job that he'd never really have to show up for. That's it. Say "Thanks, I can't tell you what it means to me that my family will be taken care of", and all his family's material concerns  would have been a thing of the past, without Walt having to participate in the meth trade, with all the dangers it exposed his family to. He wouldn't do it, because in the end, Walt had much, much, much more concern for the pride of a middle aged man, soon to leave human affairs, than he had for the well-being of his family.

 

Great, great, show, about a gigantically selfish human being. 

[Ottis]

It's a hard call. It's a decade of her hard work vs the rest of her career.

 

 

I don't see this as the important choice, or even a hard one. The new law firm came to Kim and said it wanted her to work there. If she had simply applied for a job, had an interview and then an offer, maybe it would be tough. But when a company seeks you out, that signals interest at a whole different level.

 

The difficult choice, IMO, is whether she wants to work in law *at all,* or whether she would prefer a life with Jimmy and his scams. She knows enough about life in a law firm to have serious doubts about continuing it.

He wouldn't do it, because in the end, Walt had much, much, much more concern for the pride of a middle aged man, soon to leave human affairs, than he had for the well-being of his family.

 

 

Except, Walt had a point. His choice not to accept it could also be looked at as a matter of honor. That's all I will say because this is BCS, and Jimmy is a whole different character with different motivations than Walt.

[BCSFanGraz]

Oh, I think Mike was plenty scared.  And not for himself, but for Kaylee.  I don't think Mike cares whether he lives or dies, but I think he would do anything to protect that little girl.

 

 

DUDE!!! COME ON!!!  Underestimating the Salamanca's?  To the contrary, I think THEY underestimated him.  Think about it.  Mike took on Tuco one on one and won both physically and psychologically.  When I say he won physically, I mean that he was still standing.. Tuco didn't even knock him down.  then, he single handedly beat up 2 goons in his home.  He physically showed no fear to the twins at the hotel.

 

 

 I think Mike maybe underestimated the ruthlessness of the Salamancas.  If he was pissed vs. scared, I don't think he would have gone out of his way to find Hector and actually negotiate with him.  Right up until that meeting Mike was not going to give into Hector's demands at all, but after that meeting he sort of gave up and gave in.  The 50k was just a way to not be outright punked.

 

 

You're assuming that Mike went out of his way to set up a sit down with Hector.  To the contrary,  I think that mike re-evaluated the situation in his head and likely felt that given all the variables, it was easiest to just extort Hector for the 50K and take the gun rap. 

See, I didn't see his move as giving up or in at all.  Giving in would've been to bown down to Hector and instead, he literally demanded $45K more than what he was offered and he did that even after Hector threatened Mike and Kaylee again

 

[Bannon]

I don't see this as the important choice, or even a hard one. The new law firm came to Kim and said it wanted her to work there. If she had simply applied for a job, had an interview and then an offer, maybe it would be tough. But when a company seeks you out, that signals interest at a whole different level.

 

The difficult choice, IMO, is whether she wants to work in law *at all,* or whether she would prefer a life with Jimmy and his scams. She knows enough about life in a law firm to have serious doubts about continuing it.

 

Except, Walt had a point. His choice not to accept it could also be looked at as a matter of honor. That's all I will say because this is BCS, and Jimmy is a whole different character with different motivations than Walt.

When a person risks having his family murdered or imprisoned, solely because he has a sense of honor that is offended, by an act of accepting money that wouldn't harm anything at all, except the sense of honor he has created between his ears,  that person is a selfish A-hole almost beyond description. 

 

My bet is that if Mike was told that a $750,000 trust fund would be set up for his granddaughter, and what Mike had to do was sit in the parking lot booth 40 hours a week until he died, doing nothing else, and no person would be harmed in creating the trust fund, there is nothing about that money that could do harm to any sense of honor, pride, or anything else, that would prevent Mike from taking the money. Mike's already a bad guy on some levels, and will get worse as time goes on, but he really is driven by a desire to provide for family that Walt never really had, but lied about having, throughout BB. 

[DrLar]

This show is more and more the "Better call Mike" than Saul... I guess Mike's stories are way more interesting than Jimmy problems with sleep (and a cupholder)

[Lurky McLurkerson]

Or could he have used the name later on as a 'tribute/headstone' to her?

 

When I heard the ISZ thing come up again, I thought of the guy that kept something from an old flame around, just to remember her by?

 

This is exactly how I took it as well.  I haven't seen any evidence that ISZ Corp. is currently anything other than a fictional element of Gisele and Viktor-with-a-K's cons, and I could see Saul using it as a tribute to Kim/their relationship.  I don't see where the idea that Kim has set up this phony corporation is coming from.

 

If I ran a company, and someone I'd hired a month ago made an ad for the company and ran it without telling anyone, I'd fire him on the spot. I doubt I'd congratulate him on the idea, even if it was a good one.

if I ran a completely different ad later, would that make me a hypocrite? Would it make me someone who just wanted my ring kissed?

 

 

I think this is right.  Main seemed way more pissed off that Jimmy didn't run the ad by them, which is a legitimate concern.  Do I think they would have let Jimmy run it?  No.  Do I think Jimmy's marketing strategy was way better than their waving-blue-background/middle-of-the-night airing? Absolutely.  It's just a really stupid thing to do on your own without your (brand new) employer's okay, and certainly not without having it reviewed to ensure that it complied with rules/regulations for law firm advertising.

 

Also, law firms ARE very ring-kissy kinds of places.  There is a hierarchy and a power structure, and it's typically not a good idea to disregard it.  Exceptions are made if your rogue actions net a huge client, but people remember the "disrespect" for a long damn time.

 

I agree with your point about the commercial.  I'm surprised they actually gave him a second chance, and I secretly think that Jimmy would have been fine getting fired over it.  The timing of Kim's offer is highly suspect, IMO, just because its so messy.  Why hire her in the middle of discovery/strategy?  Seems odd, but I'm not sure what the ulterior motive would be.  I don't think it would be worth it to try to pimp her for information, because HHM/D&M would be looking for any sign that is happening.  It could be strategy to muddy the waters and hope the case can be prolonged/delayed by the mere appearance of a potential ethics conflict, but if anything, it sounds like it would take S&C out of the case, which would be counter to their interests.  But, its hard to ignore the messy timing of the offer, but maybe its all just coincidence.

 

I do kind of wonder if hiring Kim is just an effort to bench her from the case.  She would no longer be working on the HH&M side, and she can't work on it from the S&C side.  (What would happen is that the firm would institute an ethical wall between her and the case.  People would be divided into "sides" of the wall, and Kim's side of the ethical wall would be barred from looking at materials related to case or discussing the case with anyone.  Violation of the wall would be subject to being reported to the bar for ethical violations, and, were HH&M, I would demand to see the ethical wall protocol that was being used to shield Kim from the case.)

 

You can't just NOT hire people with ethical conflicts, particularly in smaller markets, and there are times you really want a candidate with a particular skill set enough to work around the conflicts.  (I once hired someone with niche skills that had to be walled off from about a dozen matters, and, while the ethics compliance people hated me, we set up the screens and staffed the person to other matters without issue.)  The problem is that I can't see what skills Kim has that are so compelling they'd be willing to bench her from a large matter.  Maybe S&C is a bigger firm with enough work to keep her busy elsewhere, but I am not sure what is drawing them to Kim.  Usually, firms are looking for lateral attorneys with a book of business to bring with them.

[ElDosEquis]

  You know.. sometimes it's just fun to do illegal things.

 

Everything is legal, until you get caught.

 

Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's out of fear, survival or just plain malice? It's kinda like Mike's ideas on "being a criminal" - You have to think about what kind of 'fun' you are thinking about?

[Bannon]

This is exactly how I took it as well.  I haven't seen any evidence that ISZ Corp. is currently anything other than a fictional element of Gisele and Viktor-with-a-K's cons, and I could see Saul using it as a tribute to Kim/their relationship.  I don't see where the idea that Kim has set up this phony corporation is coming from.

 

 

I think this is right.  Main seemed way more pissed off that Jimmy didn't run the ad by them, which is a legitimate concern.  Do I think they would have let Jimmy run it?  No.  Do I think Jimmy's marketing strategy was way better than their waving-blue-background/middle-of-the-night airing? Absolutely.  It's just a really stupid thing to do on your own without your (brand new) employer's okay, and certainly not without having it reviewed to ensure that it complied with rules/regulations for law firm advertising.

 

Also, law firms ARE very ring-kissy kinds of places.  There is a hierarchy and a power structure, and it's typically not a good idea to disregard it.  Exceptions are made if your rogue actions net a huge client, but people remember the "disrespect" for a long damn time.

 

 

I do kind of wonder if hiring Kim is just an effort to bench her from the case.  She would no longer be working on the HH&M side, and she can't work on it from the S&C side.  (What would happen is that the firm would institute an ethical wall between her and the case.  People would be divided into "sides" of the wall, and Kim's side of the ethical wall would be barred from looking at materials related to case or discussing the case with anyone.  Violation of the wall would be subject to being reported to the bar for ethical violations, and, were HH&M, I would demand to see the ethical wall protocol that was being used to shield Kim from the case.)

 

You can't just NOT hire people with ethical conflicts, particularly in smaller markets, and there are times you really want a candidate with a particular skill set enough to work around the conflicts.  (I once hired someone with niche skills that had to be walled off from about a dozen matters, and, while the ethics compliance people hated me, we set up the screens and staffed the person to other matters without issue.)  The problem is that I can't see what skills Kim has that are so compelling they'd be willing to bench her from a large matter.  Maybe S&C is a bigger firm with enough work to keep her busy elsewhere, but I am not sure what is drawing them to Kim.  Usually, firms are looking for lateral attorneys with a book of business to bring with them.

Kim has demonstrated an ability to get on the phone, work her tail off, and reel in a client with a net present cash value, to her firm, in the millions of dollars. Yes, it could be dumb luck, from the vantage point of an outsider, but it also could be indicative of an incredibly rare skill set. If you aren't willing to take a risk on that sort of hire, you need to get out of the hiring business.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Bannon

[Bryce Lynch]

Again, Walt had the opportunity, nearly from the start, to provide for his family, without ever endangering them. All he had to do was accept the sympathy from his former partners at Gray Matter Technologies, who are now fabulously wealthy, and take their offer of what was a hugely compensated job that he'd never really have to show up for. That's it. Say "Thanks, I can't tell you what it means to me that my family will be taken care of", and all his family's material concerns would have been a thing of the past, without Walt having to participate in the meth trade, with all the dangers it exposed his family to. He wouldn't do it, because in the end, Walt had much, much, much more concern for the pride of a middle aged man, soon to leave human affairs, than he had for the well-being of his family.

Great, great, show, about a gigantically selfish human being.

Gray Matter would give him a job for the year or so he expected to live and great medical coverage, but there was no indication they would provide for Skyler, Walt Jr. and Holly beyond that. I do agree that pride was the main reason he turned the job down, though.

Can Mike not start a legitimate PI business or become a bounty hunter or use his skills in some other legal way?

Both characters had choices and chose to go outside the law and continued to get pulled deeper and deeper into crime.

They are not identical characters but they are parallel ones who head down a similar path.

I have no problem with people hating Walt. I just find it inconsistent to hate Walt and admire Mike. They both became drug dealers and murderers.

[RCharter]

 

DUDE!!! COME ON!!!  Underestimating the Salamanca's?  To the contrary, I think THEY underestimated him.  Think about it.  Mike took on Tuco one on one and won both physically and psychologically.  When I say he won physically, I mean that he was still standing.. Tuco didn't even knock him down.  then, he single handedly beat up 2 goons in his home.  He physically showed no fear to the twins at the hotel.

Not at all, they knew exactly what his pressure point was, they pressed, and they got what they wanted.  The twins show up at the motel and suddenly Mike is willing to completely shift his position.  In this case, the Salamanca's won.  The 50k means absolutely nothing to them.  I do think Mike underestimated the Salamanca's because he was perfectly willing to endanger his own life because it means nothing to him so he doesn't fear losing it, but he didn't know the Salamanca's would actually threaten the life of his granddaughter.  

 

And it fits with the conversation Mike had with the first two goons.  He asked why they were there and they said to scare him, and he said something like "next time, tell your boss to try harder (to scare me)" and then the twins show up and make the shooting action at his granddaughter.  And suddenly Mike is willing to give into Salamanca.

 

If Mike was just pissed, he would not have given into Salamanca's demand and up until the twins showed up he refused Hector.  There was no reason for him to change his mind unless he was scared.  You don't get pissed at someone and then give them what they want...that doesn't make sense.

[Clanstarling]

Doyou really have to cash the check for it to be a crime  though?  Flirting with crime when you are a lawyer makes sense with Jimmy, he was a con first.  For Kim though, to risk losing everything in her mid-forties and carrying substantial law school debt?  So, she's SUPER cautious about taking a partner track, we will wipe away all your debt job offer, but has no problem pulling a con in a public bar?  Or even considering staying at HHM?  Honestly, it makes her seem alternately like a doormat (with no clever carbon paper under it) or a nutcase.  Maybe she is...

The mister and I paused the show and had a long discussion about Kim. Given that she'd been a stickler about actual illegal acts (manufacturing evidence) it seemed strange to me that she'd cross the line with this con. I contended it was illegal whether or not she cashed the check. So basically, we had the same discussion that's going on here.

 

 

Gilligan used a fairly incredible method of evidence destruction in BB (one of the plot elements in that show which was a little weak, in my opinion), maybe he'll have something less spectacular this time, which informs Tio that Mike has talents  which he could use on an ongoing basis. Like I said, I am really curious to see how the writers advance the plot in this area.

It may have been weak, but it was one of my favorite capers on the show.

 

 

Obtaining a check via fraud is illegal. The authorities don't have to wait for you to cash it.

Thank you! Now to say I told you so to the hubs. LOL.

 

 

You seem to be a little rigid.  You know.. sometimes it's just fun to do illegal things.

Huh. I guess I'm a little rigid too - because I've never thought it was fun to do illegal things. Watching shows about people who do them is plenty for me. Mileage varies. Edited March 23, 2016 by clanstarling

[RCharter]

 

 

You're assuming that Mike went out of his way to set up a sit down with Hector.  To the contrary,  I think that mike re-evaluated the situation in his head and likely felt that given all the variables, it was easiest to just extort Hector for the 50K and take the gun rap.

See, I didn't see his move as giving up or in at all.  Giving in would've been to bown down to Hector and instead, he literally demanded $45K more than what he was offered and he did that even after Hector threatened Mike and Kaylee again

 

So, it was easier to get half of 50k for a guy who hasn't shown any interest in money and is meticulous about sticking to his word?  I mean, if Mike really wanted money, he wouldn't have refunded Nacho a dime.  Not to mention that it just doesn't square with the Mike that has been shown throughout this entire series.  In fact, Mike showed every intention of taking the mere 5k until he realized that he couldn't let Hector completely punk him, and he insisted on 50 at that point.

 

Mike went out, in his car, to where Hector was, not the other way around.  And Hector knew that threatening his granddaughter would get to Mike, so all he had to do was sit around and wait.  No one drew Mike a map, no one invited him, no one came to his house....Mike had to find out where Hector was at and wait to be let in.

The mister and I paused the show and had a long discussion about Kim. Given that she'd been a stickler about actual illegal acts (manufacturing evidence) it seemed strange to me that she'd cross the line with this con. I contended it was illegal whether or not she cashed the check. So basically, we had the same discussion that's going on here.

 

So, I've been thinking through the fraud thing to.  I believe fraud is a specific intent crime, which means you have to prove the intent to defraud the victim.  I don't know if you can prove intent merely through accepting the check, or if you would need to do something more to show the specific intent to defraud (like actually cashing the check)

[Lurky McLurkerson]

Kim has demonstarted an ability to get on the phone, work her tail off, and reel in a client with a net present cash value, to her firm, in the millions of dollars. Yes, it could be dumb luck, form the vantage point of an outsider, but it also could be indicative of an incredibly rare skill set. If you aren't willing to take a risk on that sort of hire, you need to get out of the hiring business.

Well, sure, you and I know that because we're watching Better Call Saul and got to see the Kim-hustling-for-business montage.  How does Schweikart know that? She was pretty careful to pretend she was taking lunch to not be seen doing her cold-calls at HH&M.

 

Many law firms are also very conservative in hiring.  It's not about potential, it's about what you've got in hand right now.  Lawyers are expensive and need to be able to provide "food" not only for themselves but also the overhead staff resources that they consume.  I can see slowly courting a Kim based on potential, but she needs to be bringing the big-money client (or a handful of small/medium clients) with her when she moves.  Is the bank client coming with her or was the head of the bank more taken with Howard's walk down memory lane about the image on his passbook as a kid and let's-deal-on-the-golf-course show?

 

I have no problem with people hating Walt. I just find it inconsistent to hate Walt and admire Mike. They both became drug dealers and murderers.

 

 

Eh, I find that a little reductionist.  If we have to start hating all television/movie characters because they're drug dealers and murderers, that's going to wipe out a lot of the "gritty" shows going all the way back to The Godfather and The Sopranos.  It's possible to like a character, or, hell, in Mike's case, admire how well he does his deplorable job and his cajones without having to feel similarly about another character that is equally criminal.

 

What makes Mike more "likable" (and these are obviously not people with whom most of us would ever hang in real life) is that Mike knows what he is, and Walt spent nearly five seasons/18-24 months blustering about the noble cause that drove all his bad actions when it was nothing more than ego.  Walt is constantly running around from crisis to crisis like a chicken with his head cut off, and it's a beautiful contrast to Mike's world-weary, been-there-done-that approach to the job.  After Walt killed Gus and met Mike in the desert, Mike told him he didn't know a good thing when he saw it, and he was right.

 

It's Mike's speech to Playuh -- we're criminals by definition. "Good guy" or not, you are what you are when you engage in criminal activities.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Lurky McLurkerson