The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[Cinnabon]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That could possibly explain the Duggars, but can you explain the Kardashians to me? Are they whitewashed? Because I see who they really are, or more accurately, who they aren't, and I've never watched an 

NM
 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Churchhoney]

38 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Same, but I'm a big believer in the tolerance paradox. Most people in this predominantly Christian country have a lot of tolerance for extreme behavior in the name of Christianity as long as it's not inconveniencing them. 

 

Exactly. 

And that's also a big reason why I've always thought the show was dangerous. (and, unfortunately, why it was so likely to get put on tv as some kind of sweet "entertainment") The evils that are craawling all over the Duggar lifestyle are something that our traditions and particular blindnesses prime a lot of Americans to simply not even register. Which, to me, means those evils are also likely to seem somehow okay or even admirable to an alarming number of people. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

I detest the Kardashians, but I don’t think they would choose to force their beliefs on others, if that were possible. 

Oh but I think they're forcing something just as foolish/dangerous and they hoodwink anyone who buys into what they're selling. Literally and figuratively.

[Churchhoney]

39 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That could possibly explain the Duggars, but can you explain the Kardashians to me? Are they whitewashed? Because I see who they really are, or more accurately, who they aren't, and I've never watched an episode. 😁

I don't watch them either....But I think that, like the Duggars, they do play into some crappy and dangerous American traditions and biases (and maybe even just contemporary biases period).....making their doings likely to be seen as no big deal.....It's just a different set of crappy traditions that too many Americans find acceptable.

They trade on their looks. They're obsessed with the visuals. They're obsessed with making themselves look good externally above all things. They worship money. They worship celebrity. They make a lot of money -- off mostly stupid crap, as far as I know....And so on..... All that is part of another stupid crappy "religion" of a sort that millions of millions of American embrace and clearly see as not a flawed way of life but a perfectly okay one and even one to emulate. 

If there was a show about a Muslim family or a family of bookworms, a lot of the talk would be about how weird and disgusting they  were. Those aren't common U.S. religions. But both the Duggars' and the Kardashians' are, I think. ... 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That could possibly explain the Duggars, but can you explain the Kardashians to me? Are they whitewashed? Because I see who they really are, or more accurately, who they aren't, and I've never watched an episode. 😁

I will never not be annoyed that I know so much about that damn family without having watched a single episode. I think their popularity is simply due to the fact that people like to fantasize about how ridiculous and awful they could be if they had that much money. Just like how if the Duggars would be truly persecuted for their lifestyle if they were any other religion, the Kardashians would be constantly excoriated if they weren't rich. 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by lascuba

[Zella]

I feel like a show about a family of bookworms would be pretty quiet and welcome in the TV landscape, but maybe I'm underestimating the antics they're capable of. 🙃

[Cinnabon]

18 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh but I think they're forcing something just as foolish/dangerous and they hoodwink anyone who buys into what they're selling. Literally and figuratively.

Believe me, if I had anything on them that I thought would lead TPTB to cancel their show, I’d report it immediately. Their images are very harmful to young women in this country, IMO. But I don’t see them as thinking that their beliefs are the only correct ones, and that’s a huge difference to me. 

[lascuba]

11 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

 

If there was a show about a Muslim family or a family of bookworms, all the talk would be about how weird and disgusting they  were. Those aren't common U.S. religions. But both the Duggars' and the Kardashians' are, I think. ... 

TLC actually had a show about a Muslim family for a short while. Nothing weird, just a few adult siblings and their spouses and children. Some women wore hijab, some didn't, didn't seem to be much drama overall. Completely inoffensive by every measure...so of course, viewers lost their fool minds and it was soon canceled. 

Meanwhile, the Duggars openly talk about saying "Nike" so the boys know not to look at a passing harlot and it's all "so wholesome!"

[Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't watch them either....But I think that, like the Duggars, they do play into some crappy and dangerous American traditions and biases (and maybe even just contemporary biases period).....making their doings likely to be seen as no big deal.....It's just a different set of crappy traditions that too many Americans find acceptable.

They trade on their looks. They're obsessed with the visuals. They're obsessed with making themselves look good externally above all things. They worship money. They worship celebrity. And so on..... All that is part of another stupid crappy "religion" of a sort that millions of millions of American embrace and clearly see as not a flawed way of life but a perfectly okay one and even one to emulate. 

If there was a show about a Muslim family or a family of bookworms, all the talk would be about how weird and disgusting they  were. Those aren't common U.S. religions. But both the Duggars' and the Kardashians' are, I think. ... 

If there were a Duggar-like show featuring a Muslim family, I think the Duggars would be making robo calls trying to get it off the air. And that’s the danger. 

6 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I will never not be annoyed that I know so much about that damn family without having watched a single episode. I think their popularity is simply due to the fact that people like to fantasize about how ridiculous and awful they could be if they had that much money. Just like how if the Duggars would be truly persecuted for their lifestyle if they were any other religion, the Kardashians would be constantly excoriated if they're rich. 

 

Except the Duggars think that THEY are the ones being “persecuted,” despite all evidence to the contrary. But they’re the ones doing the actual persecuting - see: Michelle’s robo calls.

[lascuba]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

 

Except the Duggars think that THEY are the ones being “persecuted,” despite all evidence to the contrary. But they’re the ones doing the actual persecuting - see: Michelle’s robo calls.

One of my favorite Jon Stewart quotes: "Does anyone know... does the Christian persecution complex have an expiration date? Because... uh... you've all been in charge pretty much since... uh... what was that guys name... Constantine. He converted in, what was it, 312 A.D. I'm just saying, enjoy your success."

[Ijustwantsomechips]

2 hours ago, lascuba said:

TLC actually had a show about a Muslim family for a short while. Nothing weird, just a few adult siblings and their spouses and children. Some women wore hijab, some didn't, didn't seem to be much drama overall. Completely inoffensive by every measure...so of course, viewers lost their fool minds and it was soon canceled. 

Meanwhile, the Duggars openly talk about saying "Nike" so the boys know not to look at a passing harlot and it's all "so wholesome!"

I really liked that show. Wasn’t it called All American Family?  

On topic: I wonder if the girls have requested therapy in the lawsuit because that’s the only way the’ll be able to get it. Maybe this is a way go over JB and FILs’ heads.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Ijustwantsomechips

[Cinnabon]

18 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

I really liked that show. Wasn’t it called All American Family?  

On topic: I wonder if the girls have requested therapy in the lawsuit because that’s the only way the’ll be able to get it. Maybe this is a way go over JB snd FILs’ heads.

Unfortunately, I don’t think the daughters have any say in the lawsuit whatsoever. The lawyer is doing what JB wants. And he definitely doesn’t want them to seek any “lost wages” because then they’d have to put a monetary value on the womens’ time.

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Why we need Coogan laws for reality shows.   Although some of them were adults when the show was cancelled as a result of the allegations.   but TLC was too freaking lazy to do separate contracts with the adults.  The adults, other than JB, never knew they could have separate contracts thanks to be kept as intellectual children by JB.    So this is on TLC too why the adults have no separate lost wages.

I do think we need Coogan type laws for reality shows, and for monetized social media- BUT we only have Coogan laws because Coogan became an adult and SUED. Thus legislation was passed to protect child performers. 
 

I am a lawyer by profession- although I don’t do entertainment law AT ALL, but I think it will be another 10-15years before we see these types of laws on the books on a national scale. Enough individuals have to have grown up on reality tv and/or monetized social media and not received monetary compensation before that happens. 
 

Something tells me the Duggar women and their case may be a part of precedent set, but it’s going to take some time. Let’s see what the landscape is like in 2040. 

[GeeGolly]

Didn't PA pass some law that protected minors in reality shows, a few years after Jon & Kate Plus Eight was on?

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Didn't PA pass some law that protected minors in reality shows, a few years after Jon & Kate Plus Eight was on?

You are right- PA did, but that was just one state. I don’t think they have anything for monetized social media yet. I do think it’s coming, I just think it’s going to take a while to be wide spread/standard industry practice etc.

I am sure we will read about the Duggar family in further discussions like this just because there were SO many minor children, and because of the molestation reveal etc. 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Didn't PA pass some law that protected minors in reality shows, a few years after Jon & Kate Plus Eight was on?

I believe a second state also has Coogan laws for reality show kids, but I can't recall exactly which. I'm pretty sure it's a southern state, but I could only venture a guess. Where did Honey BooBoo live?

Edited January 9, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Where did Honey BooBoo live?

I'm embarrassed I know this without needing to look it up but Georgia. 

[CalicoKitty]

Apparently CA, NY, IL, LA and NM have some sort of Coogan Law to protect child earnings.  I think it started in CA.  I believe each state law is slightly different.

[jcbrown]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

this article says it better than I could.
Josh Duggar’s Shame and Ours Why did America fall in love with a family of extremists?

Very good article, thanks for posting it.

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Good article, but its the author's opinion, which is different from mine.

There's no denying the things the Duggars said on their show, on the Today show, on their blog and in other articles and other interviews.

First their anti-choice feelings were woven into every single episode, some more blatant than others, but still, in every single episode. The Bible and God were also in almost every episode.

• They talked excessively about accountability partners.
• They talked excessively about purity, modesty, temptations, sex, etc.
• Did I mention God, Jesus and the Bible?
• They oppressed, marginalized and suppressed women in every episode.
• All their views were extreme.
• They went on family missions together.
• They went to religious conferences, camps and revivals.

Never mind dressing differently, talking differently and educating their children differently. How these things scream happy, perfect, wholesome family is beyond me. It screams religious zealots to me.

I sometimes feel like I was watching a different show than others.

I don't disagree with anything you said but I also think that TLC gave them an "aw shucks" edit that diminished the danger of their beliefs. I think the show was crafted in such a way as to poke a bit of fun at the Duggars for being rubes (particularly in later years) and to minimize the danger of what their beliefs are. I think some code-switching was required on the part of the viewer and I think TLC did it that way on purpose.

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Exactly this . Substitute another religion there in place of Christianity and I’m certain many would be up in arms.  
 

the Duggars didn’t hide that they were Christian, but they did hide the extremist Gothard/IBLP angle. They didn’t show Meshelle using Gothard’s wisdom booklets to “homeschool” the kids. They hid all that on purpose, and TLC allowed them to hide it. 
 
What makes them different from many other Christians and groups like the Amish and even Scientologists? The Amish and Scientologists have crazy beliefs, but they have no interest in forcing them on me (if they could).  

 

Agreed that if they had been anything other than "Christian" (in quotes because I think they miss the point of the religion) that they would have not had a TLC show, certainly not for so long. Also agreed that they hid many of their extremist views. And that the Duggs want to force their crazy on the rest of us.

[emmawoodhouse]

39 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Apparently CA, NY, IL, LA and NM have some sort of Coogan Law to protect child earnings.  I think it started in CA.  I believe each state law is slightly different.

I believe those laws pertain to child ACTORS. Reality kids are not protected, hence PA and the southern state enacting their own laws to protect them.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Very good article, thanks for posting it.

I don't disagree with anything you said but I also think that TLC gave them an "aw shucks" edit that diminished the danger of their beliefs. I think the show was crafted in such a way as to poke a bit of fun at the Duggars for being rubes (particularly in later years) and to minimize the danger of what their beliefs are. I think some code-switching was required on the part of the viewer and I think TLC did it that way on purpose.

Agreed that if they had been anything other than "Christian" (in quotes because I think they miss the point of the religion) that they would have not had a TLC show, certainly not for so long. Also agreed that they hid many of their extremist views. And that the Duggs want to force their crazy on the rest of us.

I agree the early TLC specials were very "aw, shucks". There was an evolution with the show and both the Duggars and TLC changed their edits throughout the years.

In the beginning, while TLC was 'aw shucking' them, the Duggars didn't edit themselves, on the show or in their blogs, because I don't think they knew any better. They didn't hide things like Wisdom Booklets or the Pearl Method until they started to receive blowback from viewers. And even then, Michelle continued to talk about them without using their names. The only obvious, to me anyway, edits TLC did were political in nature, like pro choice shirts and rallies, but Michelle negated those efforts by repeatedly saying, "as many blessings as God sees fit". I mean really, that might as well be a rally cry for pro-lifers. As the show evolved, IMO, TLC threw more bones to haters, unbeknownst to the Duggars, than humpers.

I do disagree the Duggars' extreme beliefs were hidden though. First and foremost because I think its a given that uber conservative 'Christians' practice hateful beliefs and neither the Duggars or TLC hid the fact the Duggars were uber conservative. And I know my daughter, who was a teenager at the time, was appalled by the way they practiced patriarchy, from the get go, and refused to watch any more shows after the initial specials. Also the key words/phrases that were excessively used like modesty, side hugs, servant's heart, joyfully available, train up, instant obedience and God's timing, all sound very extreme to me.  

[cmr2014]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't watch them either....But I think that, like the Duggars, they do play into some crappy and dangerous American traditions and biases (and maybe even just contemporary biases period).....making their doings likely to be seen as no big deal.....It's just a different set of crappy traditions that too many Americans find acceptable.

They trade on their looks. They're obsessed with the visuals. They're obsessed with making themselves look good externally above all things. They worship money. They worship celebrity. They make a lot of money -- off mostly stupid crap, as far as I know....And so on..... All that is part of another stupid crappy "religion" of a sort that millions of millions of American embrace and clearly see as not a flawed way of life but a perfectly okay one and even one to emulate. 

I didn't realize at first that you were talking about the Kardashians -- I thought you were talking about the Duggars -- and it's all true about them, too.

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

I didn't realize at first that you were talking about the Kardashians -- I thought you were talking about the Duggars -- and it's all true about them, too.

True. It's the "Celebrity" Personality, I guess. 😁

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I believe those laws pertain to child ACTORS. Reality kids are not protected, hence PA and the southern state enacting their own laws to protect them.

The CA courts interpreted Coogan to apply to reality kids.  Thank you Octomom.  

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if the lawyers told the sisters to stay off SM until the court case is over. Jill hasn't posted since the day after the Felon was convicted. Joy and Jessa's last post was New Year's. And Jinger's last post was a few days ago, but it was about Jeremy, not herself.

I suppose if they're arguing financial need for mental health care it would make sense not to post about living their best lives right as the case goes to trial.

[ginger90]

56 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if the lawyers told the sisters to stay off SM until the court case is over. Jill hasn't posted since the day after the Felon was convicted. Joy and Jessa's last post was New Year's. And Jinger's last post was a few days ago, but it was about Jeremy, not herself.

I suppose if they're arguing financial need for mental health care it would make sense not to post about living their best lives right as the case goes to trial.

I’m thinking that’s not the situation. Some post in their stories and can be missed depending on the timing since they go poof in 24 hours. Jinger does this frequently. To suggest they back off social media ( not a bad idea separate from the lawsuit) right now doesn’t seem likely to me. 

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if the lawyers told the sisters to stay off SM until the court case is over. Jill hasn't posted since the day after the Felon was convicted. Joy and Jessa's last post was New Year's. And Jinger's last post was a few days ago, but it was about Jeremy, not herself.

I suppose if they're arguing financial need for mental health care it would make sense not to post about living their best lives right as the case goes to trial.

They have the finances to go to therapy right now, if needed. What a bunch of BS.

[GeeGolly]

23 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

They have the finances to go to therapy right now, if needed. What a bunch of BS.

I agree they have the money.

[Sweetpea12]

Documentary on Duggars and other reality tv families

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/duggars-documentary-investigative-series-amazon-lularich-1235142307/

 

[ChiCricket]

On 1/8/2022 at 5:23 PM, Cinnabon said:

this article says it better than I could.
Josh Duggar’s Shame and Ours Why did America fall in love with a family of extremists?

From this article:

"The cameras worked like a fence and kept the children inside while people gawked on the outside. That’s what it means to be a witness. The Duggars wanted to set an example to others, and TLC helped them do it for years.

While the family performed for the camera, they involved themselves ever more deeply with the Christian right.

Not content to limit the freedom of their children, they sought to limit the freedom of others. The long skirts, the overflowing household, and the early marriages of their children were never personal choices alone but lives they hoped to force on others."

Such good points. 

[Cinnabon]

31 minutes ago, Sweetpea12 said:

Documentary on Duggars and other reality tv families

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/duggars-documentary-investigative-series-amazon-lularich-1235142307/

 

I can’t wait! Hopefully this brings the Bates down.

[Temperance]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:08 PM, Cinnabon said:

What makes them different from many other Christians and groups like the Amish and even Scientologists? The Amish and Scientologists have crazy beliefs, but they have no interest in forcing them on me (if they could).  

Scientology isn't Christian, but it was originally interested in taking over the world.

Actually the reason the Duggars fooled so many people is because while their practices are extreme, they are more extreme version of a religious experiences that are common for many folks.  I noticed similarities between the Duggars and people I knew and those similarities are what got interested in them.

[Minivanessa]

5 hours ago, Temperance said:

Actually the reason the Duggars fooled so many people is because while their practices are extreme, they are more extreme version of a religious experiences that are common for many folks.  I noticed similarities between the Duggars and people I knew and those similarities are what got interested in them.

Same here. 

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, Temperance said:

Scientology isn't Christian, but it was originally interested in taking over the world.

Actually the reason the Duggars fooled so many people is because while their practices are extreme, they are more extreme version of a religious experiences that are common for many folks.  I noticed similarities between the Duggars and people I knew and those similarities are what got interested in them.

I’m happy to say I’ve never known people like that in my life. Grew up Catholic .

[Nysha]

18 hours ago, Temperance said:

ctually the reason the Duggars fooled so many people is because while their practices are extreme, they are more extreme version of a religious experiences that are common for many folks. 

This is why I never understood the outrage when the Duggars did something that showed they were homophobic, misogynist, hypocritical, or hate-filled. I spent a good portion of my life in evangelical churches where people who looked good solid people had the same beliefs that they spewed to each other in the safety of their sanctuaries. The only difference is none of them were on TV, but they all thought they were better than the unwashed heathens outside their door.

[lascuba]

22 minutes ago, Nysha said:

This is why I never understood the outrage when the Duggars did something that showed they were homophobic, misogynist, hypocritical, or hate-filled. I spent a good portion of my life in evangelical churches where people who looked good solid people had the same beliefs that they spewed to each other in the safety of their sanctuaries. The only difference is none of them were on TV, but they all thought they were better than the unwashed heathens outside their door.

Exactly, and by the same taken, I still can't understand the insistence that when a still evangelical Christian Duggar is quiet about their homophobia and misogyny, that must mean they're growing and learning. 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

This is why I never understood the outrage when the Duggars did something that showed they were homophobic, misogynist, hypocritical, or hate-filled. I spent a good portion of my life in evangelical churches where people who looked good solid people had the same beliefs that they spewed to each other in the safety of their sanctuaries. The only difference is none of them were on TV, but they all thought they were better than the unwashed heathens outside their door.

For me the "outrage" is because I personally feel anyone has the right to believe what they want, but they don't have the right to attack others or try to interfere with others' rights.

But I agree with your point in regard to the Duggars hiding in plain sight as a "wholesome family". IMO, it was and still is, very obvious their lifestyles are anything but wholesome.

Edited January 20, 2022 by GeeGolly

[Temperance]

19 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I’m happy to say I’ve never known people like that in my life. Grew up Catholic .

I also grew up Catholic, and some of the people who remind me of the Duggars are Catholic.

[Spazamanaz]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

For me the "outrage" is because I personally feel anyone has the right to believe what they want, but they don't have the right to attack others or try to interfere with others' rights.

This. 100%. I feel the same way.

[Cinnabon]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

For me the "outrage" is because I personally feel anyone has the right to believe what they want, but they don't have the right to attack others or try to interfere with others' rights.

But I agree with your point in regard to the Duggars hiding in plain sight as a "wholesome family". IMO, it was and still is, very obvious their lifestyles are anything but wholesome.

Same. I would fight for their right to believe in anything and anyone they want, but given the chance, they would take those same rights from me. Insidious. 

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Same. I would fight for their right to believe in anything and anyone they want, but given the chance, they would take those same rights from me. Insidious. 

 Rules are for everyone else. 

[madpsych78]

On 1/19/2022 at 10:12 PM, lascuba said:

Exactly, and by the same taken, I still can't understand the insistence that when a still evangelical Christian Duggar is quiet about their homophobia and misogyny, that must mean they're growing and learning. 

Not that I feel these two groups have fundamentally different beliefs, but what makes a "quiet" homophobic, racist, misogynistic evangelical different from an "outspoken" one? Does the quiet one know that their beliefs are frowned upon by others whereas the outspoken one lacks the awareness? Or is one more introverted than the other?

[crazy8s]

4 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Not that I feel these two groups have fundamentally different beliefs, but what makes a "quiet" homophobic, racist, misogynistic evangelical different from an "outspoken" one? Does the quiet one know that their beliefs are frowned upon by others whereas the outspoken one lacks the awareness? Or is one more introverted than the other?

in my opinion the "quiet" ones just know not to speak these things publicly because it would effect their ability to make money or would garner negative publicity and comments on social media etc. so yes, they do know their opinions are frowned on by a majority of the folks they are trying to shill things to, grift from, or to get to follow/watch their youtube channel.

 

[ginger90]

I’ve always believed in many scenarios in life, the quiet ones are more dangerous.

[GeeGolly]

51 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Not that I feel these two groups have fundamentally different beliefs, but what makes a "quiet" homophobic, racist, misogynistic evangelical different from an "outspoken" one? Does the quiet one know that their beliefs are frowned upon by others whereas the outspoken one lacks the awareness? Or is one more introverted than the other?

I look at much the way I look at some "pro-lifers" - they really are anti-abortion, but would never picket outside a clinic. Or someone who just "doesn't get" transgender folks - but they would never attack them or not serve them food in their restaurant.  Or folks who are anti "gay marriage", but would still rent out their venue to a gay couple and attend a gay wedding. Or on a low key level - vegetarians who aren't assholes to meat eaters, rich folks who aren't snobs around folks who have less, etc.

Some folks can not like something, or be against something, but not get in anyone's way.

[Gemma Violet]

NBC News Article:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ministry-nourished-duggar-familys-faith-falls-grace-rcna14024

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Gemma Violet

[SMama]

3 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

NBC News Article:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ministry-nourished-duggar-familys-faith-falls-grace-rcna14024

 

This can’t be what UP was worried about, it’s common knowledge.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, SMama said:

This can’t be what UP was worried about, it’s common knowledge.

I think it’s only common knowledge to those of us who have followed them closely for years.

[Me from ME]

I saw two similar articles on my Yahoo feed. Disappointed that there wasn't anything new. Perhaps that is coming and will explain the cancellation of Bringing Up Bates. I was disappointed to not see any coverage of Dimbulb and Jchelle selling off part of the compound to ostensibly pay for legal fees.

[SMama]

51 minutes ago, Me from ME said:

 I was disappointed to not see any coverage of Dimbulb and Jchelle selling off part of the compound to ostensibly pay for legal fees.

When did this happen, I’m out of the loop?