The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

Churchhoney · January 7, 2016

Libby Ann is an idiot leg humper trying to sound intelligent. Trust me, those assholes do more damage to their offspring than any of the snarkers ever could. And last time i checked, the only one i have ever wondered about in a purely bored way is already an adult and free to go live his life anyway he sees fit. They all can leave any frigging time they choose to act like the adults they biologically are. Besides..they have already shipped the questionable one to ALERT numerous times trying to pray the gay away.

I really take offense when those girls act like their viewing audience and the media is who victimized them. That's utter bullshit. Go talk to your shitty parents.

Libby Anne isn't a leghumper at all. She's a liberal atheist feminist escapee from a very similar family who absolutely loathes and despises Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. But since she's been a kid in such a family, and knows tons of kids in such families, including her own younger siblings, she worries about them, is all. And she has firsthand insider knowledge of what kind of crap goes on, especially when it comes to homosexuality, in these particular groups.

She's really not "holding anyone responsible" for backlash. She's just pointing out some stuff that, in her view, doesn't help.

I have to say that while I don't agree with everything she writes in this vein, I think she's probably quite right about the sexuality stuff -- not least because people who are using their "gaydar" from a distance are quite often wrong about it, in my experience. Not necessarily fair to put those labels on young kids who would be in jeopardy, since what the heck is the point of our doing it? MMV, obviously.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Churchhoney

queenanne · January 7, 2016

I have to say that while I don't agree with everything she writes in this vein, I think she's probably quite right about the sexuality stuff -- not least because people who are using their "gaydar" from a distance are quite often wrong about it, in my experience. Not necessarily fair to put those labels on young kids who would be in jeopardy, since what the heck is the point of our doing it? MMV, obviously.

Agreed that while it's only my opinion, this is basically why I might object. I've been asked out by third-party-proclaimed "gay" men, at times when i was neither fabulous enough nor they young and naive enough, to be using me as a beard.

Otherwise I've no dog in this hunt, IMHO only.

Edited January 7, 2016 by queenanne

88Keys · January 7, 2016

p.s. Again, one has to wonder how many families in ATI/Gothard/Quiverfull have experience with sibling molestation. If they're all convinced it's "no big deal", it must be a lot more widespread than any of us ever dreamed.

Recovering Grace did a series of posts about it in April (Sexual Abuse Awareness Month). I'm not going to say it's widespread or common among ATI or Quiverfull families, because I don't have actual stats or numbers. But it definitely happens. There is also sexual abuse by parents, too. Some of the stories are absolutely horrifying.

becca3891 · January 7, 2016

Well that kind of took the snark out of my sails.

Mine too!

Libby Ann is an idiot leg humper trying to sound intelligent. Trust me, those assholes do more damage to their offspring than any of the snarkers ever could. And last time i checked, the only one i have ever wondered about in a purely bored way is already an adult and free to go live his life anyway he sees fit. They all can leave any frigging time they choose to act like the adults they biologically are. Besides..they have already shipped the questionable one to ALERT numerous times trying to pray the gay away.

I really take offense when those girls act like their viewing audience and the media is who victimized them. That's utter bullshit. Go talk to your shitty parents.

She's the furthest thing from a leg humper and she's obviously very intelligent, which is clear from her writing style. I thought she made a good case, although I might not agree with her 100 percent. While I am quite sure the Duggars keep track of what's said about them in People magazine and the other supermarket checkout magazines, I find it less believable that they're trolling message boards. However, she is entirely right that if they are doing that, it could make life worse for those who are being speculated about.

Edited January 7, 2016 by becca3891

MarysWetBar · January 7, 2016

Libby Anne isn't a leghumper at all. She's a liberal atheist feminist escapee from a very similar family who absolutely loathes and despises Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. But since she's been a kid in such a family, and knows tons of kids in such families, including her own younger siblings, she worries about them, is all. And she has firsthand insider knowledge of what kind of crap goes on, especially when it comes to homosexuality, in these particular groups.

She's really not "holding anyone responsible" for backlash. She's just pointing out some stuff that, in her view, doesn't help.

I have to say that while I don't agree with everything she writes in this vein, I think she's probably quite right about the sexuality stuff -- not least because people who are using their "gaydar" from a distance are quite often wrong about it, in my experience. Not necessarily fair to put those labels on young kids who would be in jeopardy, since what the heck is the point of our doing it? MMV, obviously.

Apologies for calling her a leghumper, then. Some of you have more experience with that lifestyle and I can respect that.

I am just tired of these people acting like they have zero accountability for their own lives and yet expect internet strangers to be so respectful and kind and accepting. Quite honestly, the thought of the adult "children" out shoving bible tracts down stranger's throats or MEchelle calling strangers on their phones & pushing her insane, disgusting beliefs down the phone line offend me.

These people don't want or need help. They are quite smug and comfy that they are the righteous ones.

I have respect for you, Churchy. You used your brain and your spirit.

No reason those others couldn't.

GeeGolly · January 7, 2016

The Libby Anne article read like a slam on Fundy parents to me. I felt like she was saying that because the parents are so anti-gay, something as little as an internet rumor can provoke the parents into trying to 'cure' their kids, as well as punish or even shun them. I didn't feel she was attacking snarkers at all.

I think we all agree that the kids get the shit end of the stick here, and unfortunately for them they remain in kid-dom far longer than most folks do.

xtwheeler · January 7, 2016

Well that kind of took the snark out of my sails.

Just goes to show how insidious and poisonous this cult is.

kandinski · January 7, 2016

Another Duggar recipe for misery,pray the gay away and end up in a forced loveless partnership.The sooner the entire closet of skeletons opens,the better for these kids.

Churchhoney · January 7, 2016

These people don't want or need help. They are quite smug and comfy that they are the righteous ones.

I have respect for you, Churchy. You used your brain and your spirit.

No reason those others couldn't.

Thanks. I appreciate that. .... To my mind, though, there's actually plenty of reason why the others couldn't! Not everybody is the same, for one thing, and I had many advantages that others that don't have -- going to public school, working for other people, and some months in another home when I was very young that I don't even remember but that I suspect left subconscious impressions of a different way of living that helped me.

Despite all that and despite my having left, here's one little story (there are many) of how deep my brainwashing goes:

In my home the chief perpetrator often pulled knives on people. If you were in the kitchen with this person and a butcher knife was on the counter, for example, you would very frequently find yourself in a choke hold with the knife at your throat or up against a wall with the knife pointed at your ribs and a glaring face in your face. This happened hundreds of times. This person had both an extreme unpredictable temper and a cold, calm terrifying anger, exhibited at least one of these every day -- often several times in a day -- and was entirely capable of violence and comfortable with committing it. The proper response to the knife action, one quickly learned, was to smile and laugh gently and appreciatively at what a fine joke this was. If you did, you would eventually be let go...and the perp would laugh, too.

One day, when I was past 40, it occurred to me -- for the first time -- that this was quite a sick thing, a part of the problems in that home, and possibly a damaging thing to do to people. ..... This was the very first time that this thought had ever crossed my mind. Even then, I had to push myself to realize that, yes, this was more than a joke. No one had actually been stabbed or cut in these incidents. So I had accepted this as a joke. For over 40 years. In fact, I'm hearing a voice in my head at this minute, as I describe this, saying, "Oh, come on. What is the big deal?" .... And I am the only member of my family today who thinks that these were likely very damaging incidents.

That's how deep brainwashing can go, especially when it's brainwashing of children! So, mad as the Duggar kids frequently make me, I'm like Libby Anne -- I mostly worry about them.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Churchhoney

Oldernowiser · January 7, 2016

Oh, ChurchHoney...I'm so sorry. Sending you hugs.

FakeJoshDuggar · January 7, 2016

The Duggars were mentioned in the article but it's another glaring example of how the Gothardism cult is sick and abusive. Women filed lawsuits against IBLP and Bill Gothard accusing rape among other crimes.

http://gawker.com/lawsuit-ten-women-charge-duggar-homeschool-leader-with-1751507518?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

JoanArc · January 7, 2016

The Duggars were mentioned in the article but it's another glaring example of how the Gothardism cult is sick and abusive. Women filed lawsuits against IBLP and Bill Gothard accusing rape among other crimes.

http://gawker.com/lawsuit-ten-women-charge-duggar-homeschool-leader-with-1751507518?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

I was just looking to see if this was posted.

One of the Jane Doe plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleges that she was raped by her father and other relatives and says she was sold by her father through human trafficking when she was a minor. She said she reported the abuse and trafficking to IBLP staff, which failed to report to authorities.

.... When the Jane Doe plaintiff was at a ministry’s training center, she and Gothard both called her father and Gothard asked him if abuse allegations were true, the lawsuit states. After her father denied the allegations, she said Gothard threatened her. Gothard taught that children were to obey their parents even if they were being sexually abused, the lawsuit states.
The Jane Doe then alleges that Gothard had sexual intercourse with her without her consent, saying she notified IBLP of the rape through an email in 2013. She alleges that an IBLP-employed counselor also raped her in his office at an IBLP training center in Indianapolis. David Gibbs III, the plaintiffs’ lawyer, said she is not sure how old she was at the time of the alleged rapes, but was likely around 17 or 18 years old. Another woman in the lawsuit, Ruth Copley Burger, who was the adopted daughter of the counselor in question, alleges that her father sexually molested her.

Holy Fucking Shit!

Guess ol' Bill wasn't a virgin - just a rapist. May he rot in hell, forever.

I also don't think were done with the Duggar sexual dysfuction train, yet.

Edit: Oh, good God.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/01/06/new-charges-allege-religious-leader-who-has-ties-to-the-duggars-sexually-abused-women/

One of the Jane Doe plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleges that she was raped by her father and other relatives and says she was sold by her father through human trafficking when she was a minor. She said she reported the abuse and trafficking to IBLP staff, which failed to report to authorities.

It happens in lots of families, I guess. :(

Edited January 7, 2016 by JoanArc

frenchtoast · January 7, 2016

Hey folks, just in case this comes up again, please check this out regarding speculating about children's sexuality. Short story--children, no. Adults, ok. But let's be empathetic and supportive people we know you all to be.

Readalot · January 7, 2016

I haven't read the linked articles yet but just reading these excerpts I have no words. I hope this is the beginning of the Fall of Gothard and IBLP. Based on what happened within the Duggar family and how it was handled maybe this type of abuse IS more common than in the heathen world. What a sick sick culture. I hope all victims are able to receive counseling by qualified people. Best scenario is that the case goes to court, any guilty parties are found guilty and be punished appropriately. Then hopefully if there are other victims they can gather strength to come forward (like the victims of Bill Cosby).

Churchhoney · January 7, 2016

Based on what happened within the Duggar family and how it was handled maybe this type of abuse IS more common than in the heathen world. What a sick sick culture.

I'm sure it is somewhat more common. Mainly because people generally join this group because they're sick, power freaks, etc. Messed-up people are inevitably going to do more of the messed-up stuff. And then, of course, this is a group that further isolates you, and that too is going to ramp up the neuroticism, both of individuals and within the families. .... What really bugs me about the Jill/Jessa formulation, though, is that they basically said that because it's so common it's not a big deal. ... No, idiots, bigger deal the commoner it is.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Churchhoney

Lemur · January 7, 2016

Exactly. Because it is apparently so common it's a HUGE FREAKING DEAL. It's institutionalized sexual abuse of children. And coming from someone raised Catholic, trust me, it's the type of thing that ruins lives and bankrupts large organizations.

leighdear · January 7, 2016

A lot of the major papers (NY Daily News, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune) have the story now, so hopefully it will precipitate an even bigger shitstorm of more epic proportions!

JoanArc · January 7, 2016

A lot of the major papers (NY Daily News, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune) have the story now, so hopefully it will precipitate an even bigger shitstorm of more epic proportions!

I want to hear more about the human trafficking ring. An underground network - of underage girls used for sex, sounds like. If there's evidence of this it needs to come to light. It's more of a bombshell than anything else, really. I'd like to know who was involved or who knew about it.

kokapetl · January 7, 2016

I want to hear more about the human trafficking ring. An underground network - of underage girls used for sex, sounds like. If there's evidence of this it needs to come to light. It's more of a bombshell than anything else, really. I'd like to know who was involved or who knew about it.

if anyone reads the whole 114 pages, i'd be grateful if you could elaborate on the human trafficking thing. It is very concerning, but I don't quite understand what happened.

One of the Jane Doe plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleges that she was raped by her father and other relatives and says she was sold by her father through human trafficking when she was a minor. She said she reported the abuse and trafficking to IBLP staff, which failed to report to authorities.

.... When the Jane Doe plaintiff was at a ministry’s training center, she and Gothard both called her father and Gothard asked him if abuse allegations were true, the lawsuit states. After her father denied the allegations, she said Gothard threatened her. Gothard taught that children were to obey their parents even if they were being sexually abused, the lawsuit states.

leighdear · January 7, 2016

This page of the filing cites the 2nd Jane Doe and refers to the trafficking....I haven't had the stomach to go on to the 3rd Jane Doe information to see if it also applied to her.

http://gawker-labs.com/gawker-labs-toolkit/pictures/images/000/000/989/original/page-27.jpg?1452143904

Edited January 7, 2016 by leighdear

Missy Vixen · January 7, 2016

Gothard's empire is already crumbling. The fact they moved the ATI/IBLP (or whatever it's called, it was Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts when I sat through their seminars) out of Illinois and into Texas tells me that either the law is more lenient in Texas re: civil judgments or prosecuting criminal activity by non-profits or they were scared shitless of the US Attorney's office in Illinois. (And they should be.) One has to wonder how the Duggars' hour-long commercials for all things Gothard affected their bottom line, too.

We all want to believe we're all-knowing, but the hair went up on the back of my neck when the ladies of Recovering Grace actually got Gothard to claim he'd "never kissed a woman". Excuse me? Does he think he's Jesus Christ? That's not normal in any heterosexual man. I knew then there would be additional findings, especially since he was brazen enough to put his hands on an underage girl according to the testimony RG has already printed.

It's pretty comical to watch both the Duggars and the Bateseseses desperately trying to white-wash their history with him. And it's even funnier to consider that a certain party still sits on the board of the organization and can be held personally liable as a result.

Churchhoney · January 7, 2016

Wow, the IBLP story is everywhere. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bill-gothard-sexual-abuse-lawsuit

I think they're going to be sorry they ever let the Duggars in their little group or encouraged them to be on the TeeVee. It's the Duggar connection that's driving this story. Maybe after all the false starts of scandals that people hoped would bring the Gothard mess down, the level of Duggar hate that's developed in many quarters together with the sexual details will keep this one going. ... Of course, GothardDome is tottering on its last legs anyway, but it'd still be heartening to see it go out with the ugly bang it deserves.

Tabbygirl521 · January 7, 2016

I bet David and Priscilla are going to regret the move to Bug Sandy - and buying that horrible shack.

Missy Vixen · January 7, 2016

Granted, their upbringing makes it very difficult to consider liberating themselves from the familial insanity, but all of us have fears and challenges to overcome in order to progress through life. The Duggar minors are stuck for now, but the adult Duggar 'chains' are the elephant-tied-to-a-stake-by-a-thread type.

First of all, Churchhoney, I am so glad you made it out. There are not words to express how awful things must have been for you and you are still processing what happened. Please know you are not alone. Nobody held a knife on me, but I went through some big-time bullshit as well. My heart goes out to you. And I hope being here helps as you slowly become who you were meant to be.

Here's the thing that pisses me off about the childult Duggars. They have more resources than most. And they're still chained to that stick, mostly through (I'm guessing) fear of being shunned and not being able to see their younger siblings again. It's too bad they don't know or haven't figured out that they're actually the ones with the power, not their parents. As long as Jim Boob and J-Chelle prefer to draw a salary through their TV appearances, they won't make a cent if the kids aren't involved. And it's unfortunate that Jilly Muffin and Jessa Blessa also don't have the initiative to stop the cycle.

FakeJoshDuggar · January 7, 2016

What he said...

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/01/07/im-tired-of-talking-about-bill-gothard-and-the-duggars/

Sew Sumi · January 7, 2016

Is anyone surprised that Dr. Paine examined one of these victims, yet failed to say anything to anyone? As a doctor, isn't he a MANDATORY REPORTER??? Keep on CYA, Paines and Bateses! These girls could go for a shit ton more than $50k/each. This suit is entirely to bring down the house of cards that is IBLP/ATI. And I hope that "Doctor" Paine loses his medical license. His act is unconscionable.

Wellfleet · January 7, 2016

Is anyone surprised that Dr. Paine examined one of these victims, yet failed to say anything to anyone? As a doctor, isn't he a MANDATORY REPORTER??? Keep on CYA, Paines and Bateses! These girls could go for a shit ton more than $50k/each. This suit is entirely to bring down the house of cards that is IBLP/ATI. And I hope that "Doctor" Paine loses his medical license. His act is unconscionable.

Sadly, no. Not surprised at all. The behavior of just about ALL the men in this movement is absolutely beyond all comprehension to me. Your word - unconscionable - is perfect. Too depressed right now to write more, except to say I hope beyond hope this really is the beginning of the end for Gothard World.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Wellfleet

Fuzzysox · January 8, 2016

Another Duggar recipe for misery,pray the gay away and end up in a forced loveless partnership.The sooner the entire closet of skeletons opens,the better for these kids.

Conversion therapy has been banned in Illinois so Boob won't be sending any of his kids here that's for sure. http://www.equalityillinois.us/issue/conversion-therapy-ban/

Is anyone surprised that Dr. Paine examined one of these victims, yet failed to say anything to anyone? As a doctor, isn't he a MANDATORY REPORTER??? Keep on CYA, Paines and Bateses! These girls could go for a shit ton more than $50k/each. This suit is entirely to bring down the house of cards that is IBLP/ATI. And I hope that "Doctor" Paine loses his medical license. His act is unconscionable.

I completely agree! Dr. Paine did nothing to help the victims did he? He should be ashamed!!

Aja · January 8, 2016

I hope beyond hope this really is the beginning of the end for Gothard World.

I have that John Mellencamp Crumblin' Down song coursing through my head in a victory-type fashion.

FakeJoshDuggar · January 8, 2016

Ya know, all of this was bad enough when we all thought that they were just training up subservient little helpmeets. But yes, this is all unconscionable. Despicable and in no way glorifying the God they claim to worship. Period, full stop.

And illegal. Did I mention how illegal all if this sh*t is? And I'm sure that this is just a small sampling of women/girls who were abused within this system set up to victimize females. I'm so mad I could spit nails... in the direction of eyeballs belonging to IBLP brass.

Edited January 8, 2016 by FakeJoshDuggar

GeeGolly · January 8, 2016

Yikes Churchie! So, so sorry, The brain is a muscle, and muscle memory is hard to undo! But you are so right Churchie - that kind of torture is a BIG fucking deal!!!

becca3891 · January 8, 2016

Gothard's empire is already crumbling. The fact they moved the ATI/IBLP (or whatever it's called, it was Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts when I sat through their seminars) out of Illinois and into Texas tells me that either the law is more lenient in Texas re: civil judgments or prosecuting criminal activity by non-profits or they were scared shitless of the US Attorney's office in Illinois. (And they should be.) One has to wonder how the Duggars' hour-long commercials for all things Gothard affected their bottom line, too.

We all want to believe we're all-knowing, but the hair went up on the back of my neck when the ladies of Recovering Grace actually got Gothard to claim he'd "never kissed a woman". Excuse me? Does he think he's Jesus Christ? That's not normal in any heterosexual man. I knew then there would be additional findings, especially since he was brazen enough to put his hands on an underage girl according to the testimony RG has already printed.

It's pretty comical to watch both the Duggars and the Bateseseses desperately trying to white-wash their history with him. And it's even funnier to consider that a certain party still sits on the board of the organization and can be held personally liable as a result.

Not that there's anything wrong with never having kissed someone, in and of itself. After all, we're learning more these days about asexuality. HOWEVER, someone who is asexual doesn't, by definition, go around harassing, molesting and raping. His level of repression and self-delusion is horrifying. And like many of you, I feel sick, depressed and even more sure that women are seen as subhuman in the eyes of so many of these men.

The patriarchy has always been infuriating, ever since I discovered Gothard about 20 years ago when friends went to some seminars. But never did I dream that in a world where sexual purity is obsessed over, abuse would be tolerated, covered up, and disbelieved.

Conversion therapy has been banned in Illinois so Boob won't be sending any of his kids here that's for sure. http://www.equalityillinois.us/issue/conversion-therapy-ban/

I completely agree! Dr. Paine did nothing to help the victims did he? He should be ashamed!!

toodles · January 8, 2016

This whole business makes me sick. When does it stop? Children are prisoners of these sickos (looking at you duggars) and for what? Keeping sweet and believing you have the express elevator to heaven?

I applaud the people with the courage to escape. But tlc trotting those duggar girls as examples of godliness is disgraceful. Not because of the girls themselves necessarily, but as an ad for this lifestyle. I think I'm getting off topic so I'm going to stop. But shining a big ol' spotlight on this behavior via the media is a great start.

Edited January 8, 2016 by toodles

Missy Vixen · January 8, 2016

Here's another trial balloon from TLC, disguised as an article in US Weekly...

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/tlc-exec-addresses-josh-duggar-scandals-we-have-had-our-challenges-w161031

And I'll say it. Nancy Daniels is delusional if she thinks the vast majority of those who have begged TLC to take this family off the air will believe her insistence that TLC actually "worked with a couple of organizations" to know what to do about the molestation. Trading on RAINN and Darkness Into Light's good reputations (and scheduling their "documentary" on Sunday night at 10 PM during a holiday weekend) did not aid anyone but TLC.

Their "challenges" consisted of how to recover that $24 million write-down. Nothing more.

Sew Sumi · January 8, 2016

Conversion therapy has been banned in Illinois so Boob won't be sending any of his kids here that's for sure. http://www.equalityillinois.us/issue/conversion-therapy-ban/

I completely agree! Dr. Paine did nothing to help the victims did he? He should be ashamed!!

Dr. Paine DID give her a protein bar. I guess that's his particular brand of bedside manner. Fuck him.

MyPeopleAreNordic · January 8, 2016

I posted this in another thread, but this whole revelation that one of these women says she was sold into human trafficking by her father really makes me side eye the whole "lending out" of daughters in this culture to live with other cult members' families to help out with or teach the kids. (For example, Tabitha is living at the Duggars' as the kids' teacher. I'm not saying anything nefarious is going on with that situation, but since lending out daughters seems to be common, I'm just side eyeing that aspect of this weird cult culture.)

Edited January 8, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

BitterApple · January 8, 2016

What he said...

http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/01/07/im-tired-of-talking-about-bill-gothard-and-the-duggars/

Interesting how the author references eating disorders, especially considering Jinger is wasting away to skin and bones. Edited January 8, 2016 by BitterApple

FakeJoshDuggar · January 8, 2016

Interesting how the author references eating disorders, especially considering Jinger is wasting away to skin and bones.

Given their propensity for giving women absolutely zero say-so over their own lives, I can see how eating disorders run rampant through that community as a means of having some measure of control over their own bodies.

Micks Picks · January 8, 2016

What are the women/girls asking for only $50k each? That's a pittance. The lawyers won't even negotiate that amount. It's not worthwhile.

JoanArc · January 8, 2016

What are the women/girls asking for only $50k each? That's a pittance. The lawyers won't even negotiate that amount. It's not worthwhile.

It's probably more about exposing ATi/Gothard than a payday. Asking for big damages looks like gold digging.

Sew Sumi · January 8, 2016

It's probably more about exposing ATi/Gothard than a payday. Asking for big damages looks like gold digging.

That was my stated theory when I mentioned the dollar amount. They want to destroy IBLP/ATI/Gothard.

GeeGolly · January 8, 2016

IMHO these scandals represent a sad part of life as it is. It brings to light all the things we know; cults are bad, molestation and cheating happen, and obsession and money can be dangerous.

All these things existed prior to the Duggars and will continue after the Duggars. Exposure and conversations is how things change. Little by little. But there will always be another Jim Jones, the Bakkers, L Ron Hubbard, and Gothard, and there will always be lost and vulnerable people.

Maybe the Duggars being on TV helped, and continues to help people realize this. Some Gothardites may come forward because they're pissed that the Duggars are misrepresenting what is really a messed up way to live, and maybe others are only now realizing it when they see it play out on TV. Who knows maybe all this exposure will help one or more Duggar.

becca3891 · January 8, 2016

Any deserved a heads up, since she was around Josh. I blame Michelle and Jim Bob's horrible handling of the whole thing.

I'm thinking Josh won't get the case tossed out.

That's actually a good point. I feel like Michelle and Jim Bob had a moral obligation to tell a close family member so she would know to be on guard around Josh. Although she probably had nothing to worry about -- he seemed to creepily realize his victims needed to be either sleeping/groggy or very young when awake. Amy was late teens by then.

They're lazy - and it takes more effort to prepare healthier meals from real, unprocessed ingredients. They're wealthy - they can afford to buy all the over-processed, easy-to-prepare heat-and-eat foods they shown eating now. They're uneducated - they know very little about what foods are healthy to begin with, and which should be limited. They claim they don't partake in "mainstream media" - they're not seeing what's out there regarding nutrition and health on a daily basis on TV, magazines, newspapers, the Web. And even if they did see it, Duggars don't trust it. They trust only what Gothard tells them to trust, like the sheep they are.

I have to take issue with the idea that anyone who ever eats unhealthy food or struggles with weight is uneducated. I am a member of MENSA, hold a college degree, and also struggle with my weight for emotional reasons. I am very well aware of what foods I should or shouldn't eat but don't always make the right choices because to me, food is like a drug. I'm not saying that's what's going on with the Duggars, but several of them have been to Weight Watchers, which stresses the importance of fruits and vegetables, and they did an entire show with a personal trainer telling them what foods were and weren't healthy. Also, all things in moderation is a good rule of thumb. There's nothing wrong with eating an Oreo ball; we have no reason to think that was the main course! I don't normally defend them but some of this snark is straying pretty far away from all the big complaints I have about the Duggars.

Edited January 8, 2016 by becca3891

Churchhoney · January 8, 2016

That was my stated theory when I mentioned the dollar amount. They want to destroy IBLP/ATI/Gothard.

And they've been accused by the Gothard gang of being every kind of rotten, nutso, gold-digging meanies, who are trying to bring down a wonderful man for their own selfish purposes, even when there was no talk at all of lawsuits or money. So they probably also want to make it as clear as possible that they aren't doing it for the cash -- to avoid a new uproar over their monetary demands. They're hoping for as few distractions as possible during their quest to shut down the house of horrors. Hope they get their wish.

mbutterfly · January 8, 2016

This is a series that ran in the Indianapolis Star called Dark Secrets. I think it was in the late eighties and early nineties. I have to check the date. I believe it won a Pulitzer, at least it was nominated. I'll investigate more. The training center was closed immediately after.

http://www.wthr.com/story/818906/dark-secrets

kokapetl · January 8, 2016

This is a series that ran in the Indianapolis Star called Dark Secrets. I think it was in the late eighties and early nineties. I have to check the date. I believe it won a Pulitzer, at least it was nominated. I'll investigate more. The training center was closed immediately after.

http://www.wthr.com/story/818906/dark-secrets

Wow. That is fucked up. No wonder Josh ended up a misogynistic pig after 6 months in one. And I can't think of a legitimate, non exploitative reason for Gothard/ATI to be operating a Russian orphanage in Indianapolis.

galax-arena · January 8, 2016

HOWEVER, someone who is asexual doesn't, by definition, go around harassing, molesting and raping.

This would only be true if sexual harassment and rape were truly about sexual attraction, but it isn't; it's about power. Asexual people are just as capable of sexually violating people as anyone else. That said, I do agree (from what I've read) that Gothard is more a classic case of repression and not asexuality.

This is a series that ran in the Indianapolis Star called Dark Secrets. I think it was in the late eighties and early nineties. I have to check the date. I believe it won a Pulitzer, at least it was nominated. I'll investigate more. The training center was closed immediately after.
http://www.wthr.com/...06/dark-secrets

Well, I know what I'm reading this morning!

Edited January 8, 2016 by galax-arena

Tabbygirl521 · January 8, 2016

This is a series that ran in the Indianapolis Star called Dark Secrets. I think it was in the late eighties and early nineties. I have to check the date. I believe it won a Pulitzer, at least it was nominated. I'll investigate more. The training center was closed immediately after.

http://www.wthr.com/story/818906/dark-secrets

Holy crap! I am only on Part 2 and am already utterly appalled. How did Gothard get his slimy hooks Sao deeply into The System?? This is why we don't want the likes of JimBob et al. in any kind of position of authority. They will run roughshod over society, knowing that God is behind them. Scary as hell.

kandinski · January 8, 2016

So do we think the camera crew are there for the "looking down on poor people" mission?

louannems · January 8, 2016

This would only be true if sexual harassment and rape were truly about sexual attraction, but it isn't; it's about power. Asexual people are just as capable of sexually violating people as anyone else. That said, I do agree (from what I've read) that Gothard is more a classic case of repression and not asexuality.

Well, I know what I'm reading this morning!

I remember reading this years ago. They made a documentary on it that I also watched.

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