S03.E09: Making Memories

[henrysmom]

 

Seasick, I've been waiting hours to find out what she did that was so shocking! Don't leave us hanging!

 

Yes, please come back and tell us!  I read your post three times trying to see if I'd missed the really shocking thing!

[Snarklepuss]

A question.  Maybe I misheard but I thought I heard the spiritual expert say he was a rabbi when talking to Neil and Sam, but I also thought I've seen people on the boards saying he is an atheist.  If he is both, can you...well, are there atheist rabbis?  I'd kind of think believing in God is pretty much necessary for the job, which is why I'm wondering if I've misinterpreted something.

 

I heard it too so you didn't mis-hear anything.  He probably became a Rabbi before he became an atheist - Once a Rabbi, always a Rabbi - Also, being a Rabbi has a lot to do with a historical tradition and a cultural identity, not just a religious faith as this page will explain:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theatheistrabbi/about

 

I really don't get it myself.  I'm a mainstream Christian and our ministers/priests pretty much have to be believers.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Meliss]

I'm starting to hate this show because of the editing. They pick & choose moments that do not make sense. I think this is why there is so much confusion about who these people are.

David wrote on his Twitter that the knee to knee discussion on the couch lasted 3 hours. Based on that information & what we are shown, I cannot begin to guess what is really going on in their relationship. Have to assume the same for all of the couples.

I like shows that tell a story, but they should show all sides of the story. A show does not need constant extremes to keep their viewership. I cannot figure out what is going on --when you look at their words & actions, none of it makes sense--especially with Sam/Neil and Ashley/David.

[ctbabe]

I'm starting to hate this show because of the editing. They pick & choose moments that do not make sense. I think this is why there is so much confusion about who these people are.

David wrote on his Twitter that the knee to knee discussion on the couch lasted 3 hours. Based on that information & what we are shown, I cannot begin to guess what is really going on in their relationship. Have to assume the same for all of the couples.

I like shows that tell a story, but they should show all sides of the story. A show does not need constant extremes to keep their viewership. I cannot figure out what is going on --when you look at their words & actions, none of it makes sense--especially with Sam/Neil and Ashley/David.

I agree. That's why I think they must have been interacting behind the scene for the falling in love comment to make sense. I also know that they can't show everything.

[hoosiermom]

Do these people on the show make Twitter comments after each episode?

[sleekandchic]

A question.  Maybe I misheard but I thought I heard the spiritual expert say he was a rabbi when talking to Neil and Sam, but I also thought I've seen people on the boards saying he is an atheist.  If he is both, can you...well, are there atheist rabbis?  I'd kind of think believing in God is pretty much necessary for the job, which is why I'm wondering if I've misinterpreted something.

henrysmom, I replied to your question in The Experts thread on this page. :)

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/24626-the-experts/page-4#entry1909082

[Aethera]

Do these people on the show make Twitter comments after each episode?

 

There's definitely some tweeting happening. You can see and share Twitter stuff in the social media thread here - we like to keep it out of the episode threads because it can be spoilery :)

[ketose]

This is snark, right?

It is. I know I won't find Taco Bell fare in a Mexican restaurant. But they do use Doritos. In fact, I got a taco salad from them today. It was more elaborate than Tres' recipe.

 

I might consider the idea of being matched with a spouse, but I'd have to meet her. There needs to be some kind of chemistry. Even best friends who get together obviously liked being around each other as friends. There are some people who I can't stand being near right off the bat..

[BunnySlippers]

I'm starting to hate this show because of the editing. They pick & choose moments that do not make sense. I think this is why there is so much confusion about who these people are.

David wrote on his Twitter that the knee to knee discussion on the couch lasted 3 hours. Based on that information & what we are shown, I cannot begin to guess what is really going on in their relationship. Have to assume the same for all of the couples.

I like shows that tell a story, but they should show all sides of the story. A show does not need constant extremes to keep their viewership. I cannot figure out what is going on --when you look at their words & actions, none of it makes sense--especially with Sam/Neil and Ashley/David.

 

Unbelievable. They talked for 3 hours and we got to see, what? 3 minutes? Now I'm really curious what exactly is going on with all these couples that we don't get to see. We're only judging them by what the producers and editors show us. I get it that they can't show everything, but if they pick and choose, how do we know if we're getting the real picture? I wish they didn't just try to create drama. I'd much rather see regular interactions between the participants.

[Neurochick]

And I don't think these couples do either because they have seen 4 out of 6 couples divorce with no lasting ramifications.

 

 

What should those ramifications be and why should there be any?  I mean they don't have children, they don't own property together.   Divorce doesn't mean you have to wear a scarlet letter.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Neurochick

[imcrushingyourhead]

I’ve been reading these boards since season 1 and finally decided to jump in! Love the commentary, it’s always entertaining.

Ashley and David – Ok, Ashley does seem ‘off’ but I don’t think that she does not have the ability to come up with even one word to name one good thing about someone she’s known for four weeks. My brother is mentally disabled so if she truly had a mental issue I’d give her a lot of slack. However in her discussions with the experts, friends, and even strangers like David’s friends we have seen her open up and express herself and even be quite charming. She’s even loosened up a few times around David and I can sort of see why he is still interested in a relationship with her. I understand people can have good and bad days, but if Ashley had a genuine disability she wouldn’t be able to just completely turn it on and off like that. The one area where she shuts down is in regards to a relationship or lack thereof with David. He may not be her physical type but she acts like he’s Quasimodo. The guy has a great personality but she keeps putting up barriers to even liking that. No wonder he’s frustrated and is getting a bit naggy and desperate. David seems like an all-in sort of guy, he’s probably going out of his mind in frustration that this person who he agreed to marry can’t even be bothered to pay him one compliment. Oh and if this whole thing is making her too uncomfortable and exhausted, then how did she get by as a social worker? And how exactly does she expect to function as a nurse?? If she whines one more time about how she’s “trying so hard” and “giving it 100%” I’m going to throw something at the TV.

 

Vanessa and Tres – I’m liking Tres more with each episode. He’s a friendly, good-looking guy in his 20’s, so no surprise that he enjoyed partying and playing the field before. I’m sure he had no idea what to expect but seems happy with Vanessa and genuinely interested in developing their relationship. He might be realizing she could be the one he’d be ready to settle down and start a family with. The whole preview with the ‘sip and stroke’ (nice name) was such a red herring. ‘Oh no, Tres is drinking! Will Vanessa disapprove?’ What a big ol’ nothing and I’m glad for it. They had a fun night out (complete with Vanessa’s semi-phallic painting ;) and hopefully bonded a bit more. It’s funny, at first I thought Tres was the less mature one, but the more we’re seeing of Vanessa, there is some immaturity evident there as well: sulking and avoidance of wanting to talk about what’s bothering her, the CONSTANT giggling when nervous or dealing with certain emotions, not bothering to give her dog even basic training (very glad they saw a trainer this ep!).  I’ve read that when people experience a big trauma their emotional growth can sometimes be stunted to around that age. Her dad abandoned her before she reached adulthood and some of these mannerisms are very adolescent-like. I can see she still has her guard up, which makes sense. But I hope none of this ends up getting in the way of her and Tres’ potential future. I think they are actually really good for each other and Tres was very sweet when he told Vanessa she made him a better person.

 

Neil & Sam – Allright, here’s where I go off: I REALLY wanted to like Sam! She looks more like an average person, she’s an animal lover (her dog is adorable), and her personality isn’t the ‘norm’. HOWEVER……  as soon as she started showing her true colors and crappy attitude during the honeymoon it was the beginning of the end. I think Neil is a really good guy (I’d go for him) but he doesn’t communicate like Sam in that she speaks without thinking, doesn’t care who she hurts, and blows up at the slightest provocation, while Neil is logical, thinks before he speaks, and communicates discomfort or unhappiness subtly until he feels he has to be direct. My eyes rolled up into my head when the first thing out of Sam’s mouth to her mom this episode was to rag on Neil and say he’s passive aggressive. With all her insulting snark and sarcasm, Sam wins the P.A. award, hands down.  I would have loved to see Neil actually speak up during the staring exercise when Sam made a game of it, but I think other posters here have nailed the issue on the head – He a) has experienced The Wrath of Sam a few times now when he speaks his mind and just cannot deal with her particular brand of hypocritical craziness anymore and b) doesn’t see why he should bother riling up Sam and get into another fight since it’s quite obvious they’re not going to work out. I think Sam and Neil’s soundbites where they’re saying ‘oh it’s nice to do this together, learn about the other person, blah blah blah’ is just them putting up with this sham marriage and limping to the finish line.

 

I was ok with Sam this episode when they were cooking and she finally chilled out a bit. She is WAY too try-hard “look at me! I’m witty and quirky and I keep it real!” I will admit Sam made me tear up when she broke down about her grandmom. THAT was at least genuine, and I wish we could see more. Though I do think it affected me so much because I just lost my grandmom last year. She passed in the early morning and I was supposed to come visit her that afternoon to say goodbye. Still hurts.

 

Oh and as far as Neil being a hipster goes – I think he’s more metro than anything else. The clothes he wears aren’t ‘manly’ in the western traditional sense but remember he has influence from his Indian heritage, if that makes any difference. Plus when I think of hipsters I think of someone who is initially pretentious and aloof. Dealing with Sam has made him more reserved and shut down (probably starting to get a little bitter too), but remember in the beginning? He was all cheery and silly and open. True hipsters would never show you that side (if they have it) until you actually get to know them well.

Edited January 29, 2016 by imcrushingyourhead

[seasick]

Seasick, I've been waiting hours to find out what she did that was so shocking! Don't leave us hanging!

I didn't mean to be cryptic--I just wasn't sure if I could describe what she did-- and how I saw it-- and why and how it seemed so bizarre to me--very succinctly.   so I didn't include it.    But here goes..bear with me.

 

The segment that  finished me was when Ashley went into the dining room with her pen and paper and sat down to ponder on david's question..

"We need to figure something out"  "I want to hear your thoughts on how you think we *can* fix it".  "Just write it down separately, and then read it to each other."  (Ashley) 'OKay. 

So dutifully she goes...with the written assignment page and her piece of notebook paper--thinking... pondering... and then returns, sits down and READS     READS!!!      " I want myself to want to keep working on our challenges but I'm exhausted" .     Read with a straight face..Then,looks at David with a sincere straight face --like "what do you think?"   as if she just read either her third grade book report or a masters thesis..  

 

Maybe I'm crazy for seeing that as what finally took the cake for me but it did.  Maybe you get it (agree or not)  and I don't need to illuminate the crazy I saw in that moment--but-- it finished me.   It's not even "crazy"..that's unfair to say.   But it defined her limits? to me??   I'm still dumbfounded by it. It's JUST NOT THERE!!  

It's JUST   NOT   THERE...       Anyway..that's it. that did it for me.  Thanks for askin' !

[Jack Sampson]

I'm starting to hate this show because of the editing. They pick & choose moments that do not make sense. I think this is why there is so much confusion about who these people are.

David, Sam and Neil have all said that, while the show is edited of course, what you see on screen accurately represents how the relationship was progressing. The only ones claiming that editing wildly misrepresented anyone is Ashley's parents. They've been saying anything to defend their daughter.

[Jack Sampson]

"I want to hear your thoughts on how you think we *can* fix it".  "Just write it down separately, and then read it to each other."

" I want myself to want to keep working on our challenges but I'm exhausted"

Someone want to tell me how Ashley's solution is a solution?

[seasick]

Someone want to tell me how Ashley's solution is a solution?

That's much my point.  I rest my case

[seasick]

Unbelievable. They talked for 3 hours and we got to see, what? 3 minutes? Now I'm really curious what exactly is going on with all these couples that we don't get to see. We're only judging them by what the producers and editors show us. I get it that they can't show everything, but if they pick and choose, how do we know if we're getting the real picture? I wish they didn't just try to create drama. I'd much rather see regular interactions between the participants.

I've had this gripe about the show from jump.  It's like those stupid experts and the TH's are in my living room with MY remote (God forbid) and pushing "mute' every few sentences to explain to me 'what I'm seeing' , 'what it means'   how they 'really feel,'    when I just would like to watch the flippin' show!!  Every time the couples start to talk we are interrupted by some damn edited explanation!!  , I've even thought about timing the actual conversations vs. TH's and experts comments. I haven't, (look, just *wanting* to is pathetic enough)  but I think less than a third of the show is real time.and real interaction.  The rest is cut and paste rehash. I find it frustrating.  

[Jack Sampson]

That's much my point.  I rest my case

I'm starting to think that any simpleton can get a master's of social work degree.

[Meliss]

What was David's solution? Something about how he was attracted to her but he may not be anymore??

And his "solution" was even shorter than hers. Also, It was so important to him that he wrote it on his phone! Maybe it's a millennial thing that I do not understand--I would not think he was taking it seriously typing his answer on his phone.

I thought she wrote down what she thought had to change--the biggest obstacle-her feelings about him--and that she was exhausted in trying to do this. Trying to make yourself feel something you don't probably is exhausting!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Meliss

[seasick]

I don't want to beat this Ashley point to death.  What I saw and how i saw it is hard to put into words.  I'm not sure I even understand it.   I"ll try to clarify  probably more for my own benefit..  

 

I just would think if my answer at the time was that I was just too exhausted to work on our problems  I would have just come back and said  "Look I really want to work on our challenges but I'm exhausted.. Can we revisit it tomorrow.?"  That simple.  

 

The fact that this *was* Ashley's response  but yet for Ashley,  it took her to go inside and ponder the issue,  give it what appeared to be some real sincere thought , then write it down     come back...tap the paper on her lap like it was several pages, and then read it off the page--   It's what i said in a previous post about her tortured, convoluted responses to simple questions! . Her mind does something, goes somewhere. I truly believe her when she says it's hard for her.

And she didn't address the issue.. It actually took all that effort for her to simply discover and transmit how she was feeling about the exercise.!  Its like an emotional dyslexia or something!! (not a real thing that I know of.)  Three things you like about your spouse?   She can't answer it!!  Not because she doesn't know some good qualities in David.  Does she "hear" the question differently??  I don't know.. there's something just not computing there.  That's the best I can do in clarifying my thoughts  FWIW 

[Meliss]

Seasick

You make a valid point about Ashley--I'm trying to compare this to David's response. That is why I wrote the post--

[Snarklepuss]

 

Seasick wrote:

The fact that this *was* Ashley's response  but yet for Ashley,  it took her to go inside and ponder the issue,  give it what appeared to be some real sincere thought , then write it down     come back...tap the paper on her lap like it was several pages, and then read it off the page--   It's what i said in a previous post about her tortured, convoluted responses to simple questions! . Her mind does something, goes somewhere. I truly believe her when she says it's hard for her.

    And she didn't address the issue.. It actually took all that effort for her to simply discover and transmit how she was feeling about the exercise.!  Its like an emotional dyslexia or something!! (not a real thing that I know of.)  Three things you like about your spouse?   She can't answer it!!  Not because she doesn't know some good qualities in David.  Does she "hear" the question differently??  I don't know.. there's something just not computing there.  That's the best I can do in clarifying my thoughts  FWIW

 

 

Seasick, I hear you and I think you're right about this but I don't think it's necessarily a permanent condition with Ashley.  I think it's possible that Ashley is under such extreme self-induced stress at this point that she can barely remember her own name.  So I think the stress may be pushing her into a sort of mental and emotional shutdown or breakdown of sorts where she is not even able to answer basic questions.  I think production probably made her go through the motions of writing and doing all that for the camera but then when it came time to come out with something, her mind was mush and she didn't have the presence of mind or the energy for a coherent response.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[TwirlyGirly]

seasick, on 28 Jan 2016 - 9:56 PM, said:seasick, on 28 Jan 2016 - 9:56 PM, said:

<snip> The segment that  finished me was when Ashley went into the dining room with her pen and paper and sat down to ponder on david's question..

 

"We need to figure something out"  "I want to hear your thoughts on how you think we *can* fix it".  "Just write it down separately, and then read it to each other."  (Ashley) 'OKay. 

 

So dutifully she goes...with the written assignment page and her piece of notebook paper--thinking... pondering... and then returns, sits down and READS     READS!!!      " I want myself to want to keep working on our challenges but I'm exhausted" .     Read with a straight face..Then,looks at David with a sincere straight face --like "what do you think?"   as if she just read either her third grade book report or a masters thesis..  <snip>

 

YES. THIS.

A huge red flag for me (not to mention weird as hell). Her saying "I want myself to want to keep working on our challenges...." instead of  "I want to keep working on our challenges...."

 

IOW, she's not even at the point at wanting to work on the challenges NOW....she's stuck on "wanting to want," which is roughly 2-3 miles behind the start line.

 

WTF?

 

Funny how a simple statement like that speaks volumes, innit?

 

seasick, on 29 Jan 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:seasick, on 29 Jan 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

<snip>I just would think if my answer at the time was that I was just too exhausted to work on our problems  I would have just come back and said  "Look I really want to work on our challenges but I'm exhausted.. Can we revisit it tomorrow.?"  That simple.  

 

The fact that this *was* Ashley's response  but yet for Ashley,  it took her to go inside and ponder the issue,  give it what appeared to be some real sincere thought , then write it down     come back...tap the paper on her lap like it was several pages, and then read it off the page--   It's what i said in a previous post about her tortured, convoluted responses to simple questions! . Her mind does something, goes somewhere. I truly believe her when she says it's hard for her.

 

And she didn't address the issue.. It actually took all that effort for her to simply discover and transmit how she was feeling about the exercise.!  Its like an emotional dyslexia or something!! (not a real thing that I know of.)  Three things you like about your spouse?   She can't answer it!!  Not because she doesn't know some good qualities in David.  Does she "hear" the question differently??  I don't know.. there's something just not computing there.  That's the best I can do in clarifying my thoughts  FWIW 

 

Which also makes me wonder if those "personality tests" given to the applicants are all multiple choice. Because it seems to me if any part of their screening involved writing out their answers, this issue should have been quite obvious to the "experts."

Edited January 29, 2016 by TwirlyGirly

[Snarklepuss]

Forget the Mr. Spock or Commander Data analogies, at this point Ashley is more like the robot in "Lost in Space" twirling around, flailing her arms and yelling, "Does not compute! Does not compute!", then having a total circuit burnout.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[jamblastx]

I don't want to beat this Ashley point to death.  What I saw and how i saw it is hard to put into words.  I'm not sure I even understand it.   I"ll try to clarify  probably more for my own benefit..  

 

I just would think if my answer at the time was that I was just too exhausted to work on our problems  I would have just come back and said  "Look I really want to work on our challenges but I'm exhausted.. Can we revisit it tomorrow.?"  That simple.  

 

The fact that this *was* Ashley's response  but yet for Ashley,  it took her to go inside and ponder the issue,  give it what appeared to be some real sincere thought , then write it down     come back...tap the paper on her lap like it was several pages, and then read it off the page--   It's what i said in a previous post about her tortured, convoluted responses to simple questions! . Her mind does something, goes somewhere. I truly believe her when she says it's hard for her.

And she didn't address the issue.. It actually took all that effort for her to simply discover and transmit how she was feeling about the exercise.!  Its like an emotional dyslexia or something!! (not a real thing that I know of.)  Three things you like about your spouse?   She can't answer it!!  Not because she doesn't know some good qualities in David.  Does she "hear" the question differently??  I don't know.. there's something just not computing there.  That's the best I can do in clarifying my thoughts  FWIW 

That was a truly amazing moment, and I for one had to admit that she constantly amazes me that she is not able (or refuses) to provide ANY sort of thought and/or emotion for her husband and marriage...and that was on the heels of her not being able to provide ONE positive comment about David.  When she did read her in depth analysis on how they can change the dynamic of their marriage, you could just see the utter shock and amazement in David's expression and the exact moment where he realized that there is no realistic hope.  It wouldn't surprise me if he had set up his online dating profile right there and then.

Forget the Mr. Spock or Commander Data analogies, at this point Ashley is more like the robot in "Lost in Space" twirling around, flailing her arms and yelling, "Does not compute! Does not compute!", then having a total circuit burnout.

Dammit!  You nailed it!  She is Robby the Robot

[qtpye]

eyes rolled up into my head when the first thing out of Sam’s mouth to her mom this episode was to rag on Neil and say he’s passive aggressive. With all her insulting snark and sarcasm, Sam wins the P.A. award, hands down.  I would have loved to see Neil actually speak up during the staring exercise when Sam made a game of it, but I think other posters here have nailed the issue on the head – He a) has experienced The Wrath of Sam a few times now when he speaks his mind and just cannot deal with her particular brand of hypocritical craziness anymore and b) doesn’t see why he should bother riling up Sam and get into another fight since it’s quite obvious they’re not going to work out. I think Sam and Neil’s soundbites where they’re saying ‘oh it’s nice to do this together, learn about the other person, blah blah blah’ is just them putting up with this sham marriage and limping to the finish line.

 

 

The experts said that they thought Sam's directness would work well with Neil's passiveness in an opposite attract sort of way.  Instead, the two bring out the worst qualities in each other.  Sam comes off as a boorish spoiled brat and Neil just disappears, in order not to have to deal with her insults and digs.

 

They are not a match.  If I was an expert on this show and either Sam/Neil and/or Ashley/David decide to stay together, I would think it would be my ethical responsibility to jump out of my chair and scream "NOOOOOOOO!".   They are horrible matches and the process is not idiot proof. 

 

The secrets of true love and harmony are mysterious.  I will go one step further and say marriage is even more complicated as love is not always enough.  If the show is honest about it failure and that there is nothing "scientific" (Sorry Dr. C) about the nature of a good match, I am still on board.  It's like well, they might have better luck next season, but at least they are not bullshitting us.

 

It sort of like how the producers of Teen Mom claim they have lowered the pregnancy rate.  Yes, showing girls who had babies as teenagers living lives of leisure, comfort, and D list fame will really stop young people from having unprotected sex.

 

Instead, the show will probably pressure some of the couples to stay together (I am going to guess Sam/Neil and Vanessa/Tre, as Ashley/David seem like a lost cause) with promises of money and fame to come.  The experts will nod smugly about "the process" and congratulate themselves for making the world a better place by helping people find love and companionship.

Edited January 29, 2016 by qtpye

[Waterlilly]

I'm surprised that Ashley didn't have trouble with clinical. I'm a bit of an introvert and that was hard for me. You are not only being observed by a tough instructor but also your peers. Its hard to think and not shut down. You also have them asking questions that they are expecting detailed spontaneous answers. You are expected to think fast on your feet.

David on the other hand is probably accustom to sales seminars where there is enthusiastic involvement. Being a supervisor David would ask his sales people to write down their goals, and bring him solutions to any problems. Communication is so important.

I think Trees and Vanessa are so heavily edited because they are actually trying to learn about each other and aren't real dramatic. They're basically normal gotta love them for that.

Sam must be able to turn the crazy off for work because banking customers expect you to pay attention to them. Then when she gets home it just can not be contained any longer. A little weed could be helpful.

Being a sarcastic person myself I totally relate with Neil. Sam would get real mad at me, then I would laugh. That cool rather pricey pick up truck probably is Neil's. It does need running boards though. Since he likes running and snow boarding he probably likes biking too. Just throw everything in the back of the truck. That's how we do it in the south. Even old ladies like me drive trucks.

[ProzacQueen]

Unbelievable. They talked for 3 hours and we got to see, what? 3 minutes? Now I'm really curious what exactly is going on with all these couples that we don't get to see. We're only judging them by what the producers and editors show us. I get it that they can't show everything, but if they pick and choose, how do we know if we're getting the real picture? I wish they didn't just try to create drama. I'd much rather see regular interactions between the participants.

This is why I think they need to do a live video feed and audio of the couples, we can watch on the internet. It isn't that I want that I want know EVERYTHING the couples say or do per se. I just have a hard time believing that two of these couples even live together, and if they DO live together I'm super curious about their daily interactions. Plus, we would have some idea, as to what we see on the show. It's annoying to see someone pissed off, and have no stinking idea as to why they are pissed off.

 

In regards to the "experts", if they have a season 5, I propose they use drunk monkeys, to pick the couples. I don't think they could do any worse, than the current "experts". Even though I know, that the "experts" make half-assed matches on purpose, so there are some plots for the season. It would be kind of a boring show, if all three couples, were perfectly matched, got along, and had a gay old time.

 

The "experts" really need to stop with the pairing a pretty'ish girl, with an average looking guy, that is the polar opposite of the girl's ideal type. I mean really, when they do that, it makes the women look shallow,superficial, and only into looks, and reinforces the stereotype that women are shallow and superficial. You don't see them matching a really hot, fit guy, with an average looking girl who carries a few extra pounds, or who is against their physical ideal. The "experts" seem to like to steer clear, of making men look like shallow, superficial, and only into looks, beings. Seriously though, every season there is a girl that goes "ugh, he is so not my type", and every season all the guys are like "whew thank god, they paired me someone pretty". Just one season, the "experts" need to reverse it, so there is one guy that is all "ugh, she is so not my type", to see what comes of it. 

 

All of that said, I still think using drunk monkeys as matchmakers, would be an epic plot twist, for season 5.

[Soup333]

Even more shocking than Ashley's "I want myself to want..." was her answer to his question about winding down the clock. He asked her point blank if she was just waiting for the time to run out and she said, "I feel like I can't answer that right now, but I feel like things are stacked against us." She couldn't answer if she was just waiting it out? That's a pretty basic yes or no question, which she should have been able to answer with a no. "I feel like I can't answer that right now" is pretty much a yes. There's no other way for David to interpret that answer other than to say that Ashley has checked out of this marriage (if ever she was checked in) and there's no hope. That combined with her not being able to tell him that he wasn't her type four weeks into it -- I can definitely understand his frustration. In his response to her "want myself to want" answer, he said that he's been trying to remain positive and has already been shutting down. She offered no hope and no solution to their issues. Nothing but trite apologies - "This is me trying 100% and I'm sorry if you don't feel it." I don't know what's wrong with her, but as it's been said 100 times before, she should have never been on this show. NEVER. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by Soup333

[rab01]

The "experts" really need to stop with the pairing a pretty'ish girl, with an average looking guy, that is the polar opposite of the girl's ideal type. I mean really, when they do that, it makes the women look shallow,superficial, and only into looks, and reinforces the stereotype that women are shallow and superficial. You don't see them matching a really hot, fit guy, with an average looking girl who carries a few extra pounds, or who is against their physical ideal. The "experts" seem to like to steer clear, of making men look like shallow, superficial, and only into looks, beings. Seriously though, every season there is a girl that goes "ugh, he is so not my type", and every season all the guys are like "whew thank god, they paired me someone pretty". Just one season, the "experts" need to reverse it, so there is one guy that is all "ugh, she is so not my type", to see what comes of it. 

 

All of that said, I still think using drunk monkeys as matchmakers, would be an epic plot twist, for season 5.

I think it takes a special kind of stupid for a guy to say "ugh, she's not my type" while on TV. Guys already have the stereotype of being only attracted to women for their looks so leaning into that stereotype would leave a seriously bad impression on future dates.  I'm sure the show can find some guys like that but I bet they ain't husband material.

[BBDi]

Even more shocking than Ashley's "I want myself to want..." was her answer to his question about winding down the clock. He asked her point blank if she was just waiting for the time to run out and she said, "I feel like I can't answer that right now, but I feel like things are stacked against us." She couldn't answer if she was just waiting it out? That's a pretty basic yes or no question, which she should have been able to answer with a no. "I feel like I can't answer that right now" is pretty much a yes. There's no other way for David to interpret that answer other than to say that Ashley has checked out of this marriage (if ever she was checked in) and there's no hope. That combined with her not being able to tell him that he wasn't her type four weeks into it -- I can definitely understand his frustration. In his response to her "want myself to want" answer, he said that he's been trying to remain positive and has already been shutting down. She offered no hope and no solution to their issues. Nothing but trite apologies - "This is me trying 100% and I'm sorry if you don't feel it." I don't know what's wrong with her, but as it's been said 100 times before, she should have never been on this show. NEVER.

It's ironic that by trying to say as little as possible so she doesn't look bad on TV, she has made herself look very bad indeed.

[qtpye]

I think it takes a special kind of stupid for a guy to say "ugh, she's not my type" while on TV. Guys already have the stereotype of being only attracted to women for their looks so leaning into that stereotype would leave a seriously bad impression on future dates.  I'm sure the show can find some guys like that but I bet they ain't husband material.

 

 

Think of the reality t.v. gold it would be if a groom acted like season one Jamie Otis did upon seeing her prospective husband.  What if he collapsed on the floor in a puddle of sobs and his family/friends had to almost force him to go through with the marriage?  During the wedding pictures, whenever the bride wants a kiss, if he tells her "don't you dare touch me"?

 

Just to be clear, I do not want to see any man act this way.  I just want to emphasize how ridiculous it is that Jamie Otis acted this way, claims to have fallen in love with the guy she found so repulsive and yet still pines away for her ex-boyfriend.

 

Really show, you should not let Jaimie be your poster child for success.

[Snarklepuss]

Sam must be able to turn the crazy off for work because banking customers expect you to pay attention to them. Then when she gets home it just can not be contained any longer. A little weed could be helpful.

 

I think Sam is able to do this - Sam reminds me of a woman who used to do my taxes.  She was programmed to be all customer-service friendly while on the job and I thought that was her real personality until she left and her coworkers gave me the down low on her insane off hours train wreck of a life and what a bitch she was, etc., etc.  I would have dismissed them as just haters but some of the stuff they told me would have been hard to make up and they really didn't hate her, just felt sorry for her.  I had known the woman for years and had a completely different impression of her, and it's hard to get one by me!

[ProzacQueen]

I think it takes a special kind of stupid for a guy to say "ugh, she's not my type" while on TV. Guys already have the stereotype of being only attracted to women for their looks so leaning into that stereotype would leave a seriously bad impression on future dates.  I'm sure the show can find some guys like that but I bet they ain't husband material.

Doesn't worrying about future dates, kind of defeat the purpose of going on a show, where you get married to a stranger, in an attempt to fall in love and stayed married?

[Liberty]

... she said, "I feel like I can't answer that right now,.....

 

It is somewhat interesting that someone who is portrayed as a social worker uses the word "feel" to describe a thought or opinion.  One might have thought that in practice, or school, this character would learn feelings are an emotional state or action, like anger, love, abandonment, excitement etc., not what a social worker is thinking. 

[Snarklepuss]

The "experts" really need to stop with the pairing a pretty'ish girl, with an average looking guy, that is the polar opposite of the girl's ideal type. I mean really, when they do that, it makes the women look shallow,superficial, and only into looks, and reinforces the stereotype that women are shallow and superficial. You don't see them matching a really hot, fit guy, with an average looking girl who carries a few extra pounds, or who is against their physical ideal. The "experts" seem to like to steer clear, of making men look like shallow, superficial, and only into looks, beings. Seriously though, every season there is a girl that goes "ugh, he is so not my type", and every season all the guys are like "whew thank god, they paired me someone pretty". Just one season, the "experts" need to reverse it, so there is one guy that is all "ugh, she is so not my type", to see what comes of it. 

 

I might agree with you if I thought either Ashley or Sam were pretty-ish at all, but I don't.  Both of them are just average.  Sam may actually be below average.  Plus men are more open to more women than women are to men.  it's just a fact.  That's why you don't see the men saying they don't find the women attractive - Men are less selective that way than women.  Sure, it's true that men are visually oriented and looks are important to them, it's just that they are more open to different looks than women are in general.  These are generalities and not meant to nail individual people down, but all the studies done on this subject add up to the same conclusions.  And none of the men I've talked to about them disagree.  Remember the scene in "When Harry Met Sally" when Billy Crystal goes on like this?

 

Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.

Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?

Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail 'em too.

[qtpye]

- Men are less selective that way than women.  Sure, it's true that men are visually oriented and looks are important to them, it's just that they are more open to different looks than women are in general.  These are generalities and not meant to nail individual people down, but all the studies done on this subject add up to the same conclusions.  And none of the men I've talked to about them disagree.  Remember the scene in "When Harry Met Sally" when Billy Crystal goes on like this?

 

Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.

Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?

Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail 'em too.

 

 

LOL.  I do not like to gender stereotype, but I think the women on the show are walking down the aisle they are thinking "I want him to look like the prince charming of Disney movies or at least like the Ryan Goslings of romantic comedies, that I have dreamed about all my life." 

 

While the men are thinking "As long as she is someone I would not kick out bed, it's cool".

[rab01]

Doesn't worrying about future dates, kind of defeat the purpose of going on a show, where you get married to a stranger, in an attempt to fall in love and stayed married?

If your first thought is "whoa, she's really not attractive", future dates might be on your mind, no? ;)

Also, if a guy thinks "Eh, not my type but let's give it a shot", he isn't going to say that on camera because when she hears it , she'll resent it forever. (Maybe some gross generalization there but I wouldn't risk it)

[Waterlilly]

For the men their first sight impression is a bride that is professionally made up. They are pretty in their dresses and are put together. The men are groomed and clean but the McDreamies of the world don't need to go on this show! The show isn't going to cast a Dani (ya'll know who I mean), because the groom would walk. JMHO

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I think the real reason why the men seem to consistently be more accepting of the woman's appearance is more than just the cultural stereotype that a man should be able to do it with 'anyone in a skirt' (which, these days, would make them bisexual... but I digress).

 

rab01's comment that "Also, if a guy thinks "Eh, not my type but let's give it a shot", he isn't going to say that on camera because when she hears it , she'll resent it forever" is the reverse stereotype (applied to women). But many people aren't stereotypes (--perhaps that is especially true for those who need "experts" to find them an instant spouse).

 

David and Tres seemed very relieved that when they first laid eyes on them, they thought their new wives were attractive.

( I think they may both have been quite worried about what would happen if they hadn't.) 

 

Neil, on the other hand, didn't seem to focus as much on Sam's appearance - he seemed more focused on whether she was someone he would be able to spend his life with. Neil obviously really did consider himself married (and committed to Sam) at that moment. He was not just thinking of his marriage as an 'experiment'. 

 

The same, I think, can be said about Vanessa [-- but not about Tres].

Edited January 29, 2016 by Crazy Bird Lady

[qtpye]

The show isn't going to cast a Dani (ya'll know who I mean), because the groom would walk. JMHO

 

 

I am sorry for being so dense...but, who is Dani?

[rab01]

Crazy Bird Lady - what's the real reason then?  (I didn't quite catch it from your post)

 

Yeah, I'll own that what I said was a stereotype but I got nothing other than personal experience plus that of friends and extrapolation from there, which leads to stereotypes. 

 

I'm not so sure, however, of the first stereotype you mentioned - that I'm expected to be able to do it with anyone in a skirt. I've never really felt that as an expectation. I will say, however, that almost universally the women I've known have been harder on their own appearances and that of other women than any man around them ever was. (My ex-wife was an exception to that rule but that's a long and not so funny story.)  So, we find women honestly attractive where other women may see it as being willing to do it with anyone.

[henrysmom]

Here is Dani and her happy groom in a recap from 90 Day Fiancee:

http://previously.tv/90-day-fiance/theres-no-kissing-in-ramadan/

[Jack Sampson]

Here is Dani and her happy groom in a recap from 90 Day Fiancee:

http://previously.tv/90-day-fiance/theres-no-kissing-in-ramadan/

Dear God! Did she win the lottery or something? Why is he (or anyone) with that?

[Snarklepuss]

LOL.  I do not like to gender stereotype, but I think the women on the show are walking down the aisle they are thinking "I want him to look like the prince charming of Disney movies or at least like the Ryan Goslings of romantic comedies, that I have dreamed about all my life." 

 

While the men are thinking "As long as she is someone I would not kick out bed, it's cool".

 

LOL, according to my husband, who is of course the expert on all things male-related (just kidding), he says that a lot of men can be perfectly happy married to a woman they wouldn't kick out of bed but isn't their "princess charming".  He says men just aren't like women that way and don't tend to be so super-picky.  Of course, being female, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that!

[Jack Sampson]

LOL, according to my husband, who is of course the expert on all things male-related (just kidding), he says that a lot of men can be perfectly happy married to a woman they wouldn't kick out of bed but isn't their "princess charming".  He says men just aren't like women that way and don't tend to be so super-picky.  Of course, being female, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that!

He's mostly right. There's a world of difference between women men date and those we would consider marrying. It's a completely different skill set. Most guys would gladly sacrifice a point on looks if she would make a good wife and mother.

[Snarklepuss]

Jack, I think most women would sacrifice a point or two for good qualities in a guy, but perhaps not as many points as men would in general, factoring out the super-picky people like Ashley of course!

[ProzacQueen]

Think of the reality t.v. gold it would be if a groom acted like season one Jamie Otis did upon seeing her prospective husband.  What if he collapsed on the floor in a puddle of sobs and his family/friends had to almost force him to go through with the marriage?  During the wedding pictures, whenever the bride wants a kiss, if he tells her "don't you dare touch me"?

 

Just to be clear, I do not want to see any man act this way.  I just want to emphasize how ridiculous it is that Jamie Otis acted this way, claims to have fallen in love with the guy she found so repulsive and yet still pines away for her ex-boyfriend.

 

Really show, you should not let Jaimie be your poster child for success.

EXACTLY, it would be reality TV gold. I am under no illusions, that any of these people will fall in love, and will stay married, if there isn't a paycheck involved. The storyline is getting stale, because it has been the same, and will probably be in play next season. Mix it up a little, have a guy act like a shallow jerk in the beginning, while everyone feels bad for the girl. Then, a few episodes in, guy realizes girl is totally awesome and falls for her, and everyone goes "yay".

 

ETA: I stand by my statement, that drunk monkeys could not do any worse, than the "experts" in matching people.

Edited January 29, 2016 by ProzacQueen

[henrysmom]

 

Dear God! Did she win the lottery or something? Why is he (or anyone) with that?

 

To get a Green Card.  I'm sure this will shock you, but they are no longer together.

 

[Jack Sampson]

To get a Green Card.  I'm sure this will shock you, but they are no longer together.

What hell hole did he come from to be with her for a green card? Actual hell?

[henrysmom]

 

What hell hole did he come from to be with her for a green card? Actual hell?

 

Tunisia.  And there was MUCH discussion on the 90 Day Fiancee boards about their relationship and what they both were thinking.