S03.E06: Meet The In-Laws

[Kareem]

...

For the moment, I only get "I'm horny and kind of lost" from him.

Too funny! Some truth to that.

He seems to get a pass for such things and I don't understand why. There are just too many red flags with this guy to ignore. I can see them racking up in Vanessa's brain and rightfully so. At this point, he is the one with the most bagage in the relationship.

I admit, I'm biased in Tres' favor for a number of reasons. I like brown men. I find certain men who are Middle Eastern, Latino and Black attractive. Also, I am a mix as well so there's that. My mom didn't run off with my white looking sister but I was adopted. Just thought if I had to sit and talk to someone for a weekend, I would rather it be him over the others. As I've said, I really did admire his confidence, especially at the wedding while the other two were quaking in their boots, and liked the way he introduced himself to everyone, with a smile and in the hopes of letting them know he was an ok guy, he said. I preferred the corsage he thought to bring her as opposed to Neil's dance and David's sweat.

I also dated a lot before I finally got married. Friends would say "You could have anyone. What are you waiting for?" because they were married with little ones by then. It was because I was meeting the "ok buts" I mentioned in another post--great people with something about them that didn't make me want to spend forever with them. I believe it was Neuro who said sometimes you're not necessarily seeking marriage but that it just hits you. I knew I was ready, though, and maybe he felt that way, too.

I think, too, because he and Vanessa are the least crazy in that lineup that it often feels that we hear more of the others' conversations, or in Ashley's case, the noticeable lack thereof. It makes Tres a little harder for me to condemn. As Snarkle said, we get some info but nothing too solid yet. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's doesn't appear to be nuts.

My son is named Trey, too. Completely biased. :)

[seasick]

But in this episode, Sam sarcastically told Neil that he needed to work on his "cold, clammy hands," remember? (God, I can't stand her!) Well, it's been my experience that cold, clammy hands usually translate into a person being nervous or upset, emotionally agitated or guarded.

I've said it before, Neil's still waters run deep, and, to me, Sam's comment about his cold hands proves it. On screen, he was cool and calm, trying to understand Sam's Martianese, but inside he was a bundle of nerves.

The way Sam acted on her wedding day -- long before she entered the venue and laid eyes on Neil -- was over-the-top and a clear indicator that she had no business on this show. Her hyperventilating, caged-animal pacing, sinking to her knees and talking about puking, overdelaying her entrance, etc, were melodramatic. Then when she broke into her crazy dance down the aisle was it because she hated Neil at first sight or because she's just crazy? For sure, everything about her screamed look at me, look at ME! Not a great personality trait when it's TWO people entering the unknown TOGETHER.

On a lighter note, I thought it was adorable how Vanessa's little pup approached Vanessa as she was reading her phone on the bed. The dog moved in, sat, then dipped her head down over the phone as if to read along!

So many cute dogs, so many awful "humans!"

I hope they fix this site soon--I can't bold the points I'm addressing.

I see Neil as very stiff and nervous around Sam--or the camera--whatever. No argument there. It doesn't surprise me that Neil has cold, clammy hands.

Enter "Camera Sam!' I'm sure Sam and Neil spend time together talking outside the filming. So why is it that all these demeaning, insulting remarks are always said in front of the camera by Sam?? I'd be a nervous wreck too if I was Neil--wondering what humiliating comment was going to come out of her mouth once the cameras started to roll.

God forbid they 'do the deed' ! When production arrives Sam will probably generously inform Neil (and the world) of all his "short-comings" in full detail. Honestly it would shock me if he can 'rise to the occasion' with her, but hey, I'm sure Sam will let Neil know in full HD that he's a limp-dick. Cold-sweats from Neil don't surprise me.

I believe the dance down the aisle was planned ahead, because the piano player pumped it up -obviously per her instructions.

I saw Vanessa's dog do that too. I thought it was super cute.

[Neurochick]

I find it interesting that five of the six have, for lack of a better word, baggage. Tres was abandoned by his mother and brought up, not by his father, by his aunts; Vanessa doesn't have a relationship with her father; David's father died when he was young; Ashley doesn't have a relationship with her father; Sam is close to her stepfather, but not her biological father. It makes me wonder if this baggage played a role in their previous relationships. Is Neil the only one that didn't come with baggage, or am I forgetting something?

I think more people than less have baggage these days, especially if you're over 21.

[seasick]

The thing with Tres is we suspect a lot with him but don't really know it. I'm wondering if like with Basement Ryan all of a sudden facts will come out about him to make him look bad. At this point I don't know if Tres is a true player or just a guy that dated around a lot and perhaps was a little promiscuous but is now ready to settle down. I'm thinking that if he was a true player he would not make good marriage material just because that involves lying, cheating and manipulating and why should the leopard change his spots, right? And if he dated a lot and was a little promiscuous as in hooking-up with no strings attached, just how bad was he? If he had a different woman every week I'd say Vanessa should RUN as fast as she can away from him because he'd probably cheat on her. But if he had a one night stand once in a while it may be no real cause for alarm. I've read that men can have a past like this without affecting their ability to remain faithful in a marriage. There may be other issues with Tres that would give rise to cheating and just generally not being ready to settle down, such as not having a positive relationship with his birth mother and being somewhat immature. I think Vanessa probably has more to fear from that on several counts than any sexual past on his part.

My red-flags are also from my experiences and instincts--very little one can point to with Tres that shows 'proof'positive". So it's a wait and see--but I believe it's a farce for him. JMO.

I must admit my eyes roll when Tres and "Dating" are in the same sentence. To me, a Date is --you call the girl, you ask her out to dinner, or a movie, or whatever, you pick her up, you plan an evening or activity. I don't consider meetin' up at the club and bringing a girl home a "Date." I may be wrong--but I don't see Tres going on "Dates" as per that description. I see him more of a pick-up guy. again...JMO!!

[moonxyz]

The way Sam acted on her wedding day -- long before she entered the venue and laid eyes on Neil -- was over-the-top and a clear indicator that she had no business on this show. Her hyperventilating, caged-animal pacing, sinking to her knees and talking about puking, overdelaying her entrance, etc, were melodramatic. Then when she broke into her crazy dance down the aisle was it because she hated Neil at first sight or because she's just crazy? For sure, everything about her screamed look at me, look at ME!

 

Sam is an attention seeker but what I do like about her is that she knows what she wants. I don't think she wants a jerk or an asshole but someone who would have the traits of her father. You can tell she respcts him and values his opinions. DIdin't she tell the experts that she wanted a guy that hunted and fished? yup she's definately talking about Daddy. Do I think Neil should change to transform into Dad? Absolutely not. Sam knows that this is impossible, hence why she's half-assing the whole thing for the momet. Neil isn't want she wants. Period.

 

Re Vanessa's disappointment: there's another, more mundane possibility, I think? Though they had a big get-together for HIS family (mainly) Tres did nothing to help, right?

Tres sauntered off to work (post-"consummation"), leaving Vanessa and her sister to accept delivery of furniture, place and decorate the house, discard huge amounts of trash, etc. (I remember Vanessa narrating that she was VERY appreciative of her sis's help.) Then it looked like Vanessa either cooked large quantities of food, or, at least, oversaw the catering and heating. Then off to dress and make up and look beautiful....

Father's Day party time! Convo, congeniality, a maybe-feigned interest in Tres's relatives (aka good manners) -- exhausting!

Finale? Tres splits with family for Sunday night out. Supposedly Vanessa went out, too, but I'm guessing it was a retaliatory move on her part. Because I'm pretty sure all the after-party cleanup was left to Vanessa. I'm sure she thought that she AND Tres would do after-party bonding once everybody left, but she was disappointed.

Tres presents as an easygoing, good-looking, sauntering cool dude. But he also seems to me to be marking time, above it all and still very much an independent contractor. A pleasant, cute independent, but, still, an independent. Vanessa sees that.

I'm also sticking by my conjecture that sex with Tres might have been a disappointment to Vanessa.

Vanessa said early on that divorce is not an option for her. I hope she changes her mind. And she should get her own show after this. Maybe a cooking thing. Or a pet show. She enjoys those things, and single-guy camera operators and producers would expand her dating pool.

Vanessa is definately less affectionate than one the honeymoon where she was literally pouncing on the guy. Post sex Tres is very giddy, Vanessa not so much.

And yes, I haven't seen him pitching in terms of household chores. Maybe it's the editing? Or maybe he's lazy and this laziness transpires in the bedroom?

  

And if he dated a lot and was a little promiscuous as in hooking-up with no strings attached, just how bad was he? If he had a different woman every week I'd say Vanessa should RUN as fast as she can away from him because he'd probably cheat on her. But if he had a one night stand once in a while it may be no real cause for alarm.

He has stated over and over again that he "partied alot , hard and enjoyes it". His termonology bothers me and is very ambiguous. But I read it as having as having a high body count and sleeping around.

Also, the way he brags about his sex life (past and current with his wife) really fucking bothers me. I'm not a prude but he should chill out with this shit.

  

As I've said, I really did admire his confidence, especially at the wedding while the other two were quaking in their boots, and liked the way he introduced himself to everyone, with a smile and in the hopes of letting them know he was an ok guy, he said. I preferred the corsage he thought to bring her as opposed to Neil's dance and David's sweat.

 

These were nice gestures, but all of it was very smooth. I don't know this guy so I don't know if he was doing all of this to come across a certain way or because his was genuine. Personally I would prefer if you don't do this extra "spectacular" stuff but actually come home sober.

 

God forbid they 'do the deed' ! When production arrives Sam will probably generously inform Neil (and the world) of all his "short-comings" in full detail. Honestly it would shock me if he can 'rise to the occasion' with her,

HAHA. This would be one of the est moments on TV ever. But I too don't believe that Neil would be able to rise to the occasion ( in any way). He is so akward, I couldn't imagine what sex with him would be like. I doubt he has ever thought about Sam in a sexual way either.

[Gigi43]

If drinking until he passes out is common for Tres, his partying may not include as much sex as he wants people to think... his boys may be tossing his asleep butt into a cab before he finds girls to pick up.

Given how critical Sam is of everything, Neils bag, clothes, now his hands, I shiver to think WTF she'd say about having sex. Even if Neil was great in bed, she'd find something to put him down for. I caught Neil and Sam's meeting with Dr. Pepper today, Sam said she wants someone to "put her in her place"... uh, how about she works on being a nicer person thus eliminating the need to be put in her place. Sam strikes me as the kind of person who finds basic social politeness "fake." Maybe Neil is more vocal or however different he might be off camera because he doesn't want to make her look bad by saying outright just how terrible she's being, doesn't want to embarrass her and have her family watch that. That's consideration, not fakeness.

I saw David's father's day morning breakdown finally. That seemed like a bad reenactment of something... it did not feel "real" at all. Also Ashley walking the dog with no sign of a pooper scooper/bag with her really bothered me. Hopefully a camera guy was carrying it or they were filming after the dog had done his/her business. People who don't pick up should not be allowed to have dogs, period.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Gigi43

[LennieBriscoe]

Anybody watching "Galavant" (ABC, Sundays)? The protagonist looks just like Neil!

[sleekandchic]

God forbid they 'do the deed' ! When production arrives Sam will probably generously inform Neil (and the world) of all his "short-comings" in full detail. Honestly it would shock me if he can 'rise to the occasion' with her, but hey, I'm sure Sam will let Neil know in full HD that he's a limp-dick. Cold-sweats from Neil don't surprise me.

Omg. If sex were attempted, it wouldn't matter what Neil said or didn't say, did or didn't do, touched or didn't touch. Sam would make it her mission to bring up "the ordeal" on camera and humiliate Neil however she could.

Conversely though, if Neil is smart (and I think he is) he will never make the first move on Sam, which she will also ridicule and use as a reason to demean him. No matter. Either way, Sam will put him down, so it's better to not make ANY attempt toward the horror-show that is Sam. If Neil is put on the spot by producers to explain his lack of action, he can bring up Grandma's advice at the wedding to use patience if he wanted an arranged marriage to work.

Or, he could tell the truth and interview that he wasn't gonna hit the crazy, no way, no how.

But just in case Neil WAS stupid enough to try to have sex with his wife, tonight I will pray to the Doctor and TARDIS that they accept the mission to stop Neil, at any cost.

[sleekandchic]

Sam is an attention seeker but what I do like about her is that she knows what she wants. I don't think she wants a jerk or an asshole but someone who would have the traits of her father. You can tell she respcts him and values his opinions. DIdin't she tell the experts that she wanted a guy that hunted and fished? yup she's definately talking about Daddy. Do I think Neil should change to transform into Dad? Absolutely not. Sam knows that this is impossible, hence why she's half-assing the whole thing for the momet. Neil isn't want she wants. Period.

I agree with you that Sam tries to come across as a daddy-worshipper. What I find kind of fascinating is how much her mom absolutely was smitten with Neil at the wedding! In fact, several posters commented in the wedding-episode thread that mom was a little embarrassing in her attraction to Neil.

When Sam delayed and delayed her entrance, I remember Mother walking over to Neil, standing at the "altar," and saying, "my daughter has changed her mind, but I will be happy to take her place!" I guess an argument can be made that mom was just being "nice," but I think her attraction to Neil was real. Sam's roommate/bridesmaid and the other maids all seemed to like Neil, too. At least, I didn't see anybody recoiling. Of course, they weren't marrying the guy though.

If I remember the backstory right, Sam was an Army brat, and her family moved many times during her father's active service. Mom obviously hung in there, but the parents are divorced now, right?

Neil might not be a hunter -- he didn't have experience with shooting -- but he runs marathons, boats, snowboards, considers himself an outdoorsman.

I have NO problem with Sam's lack of attraction and chemistry with Neil. If the spark isn't there, it isn't there. But I think she's unnecessarily antagonistic toward him. I also think she's an intelligent woman who knew exactly what she was signing up for on MAFS. So why not make an effort to enjoy the six weeks' experience for herself and to be generous of spirit toward the guy matched with her? Would it kill her?

Sam wasn't going to be forced to have sex against her will; I don't think these people are even truly required to live with each other once the cameras shut down. So what's the problem? Sam and all the others KNEW what was expected for six weeks, right?

For me, it's bothersome to observe one person making a conscious effort to make another person feel uncomfortable, or, worse, to attempt to make him feel "less-than." No legit reason for Sam to be as hateful as I feel she is toward Neil. (But I'm a softie, for sure.)

Edited January 11, 2016 by sleekandchic

[nutella fitzgerald]

Also, Sean from last season needs to be hooked up with Sam. He is Christan Grey sexual and she wants to be dominated (ugly image in my head...must drink bleach to forget).

As astute as this entire post is, I actually literally dry heaved at the reminder of Sean's Fifty Shadesness and may have to call in sick tomorrow.

Any guesses as to what wax melt is most effective for the "I married a stranger who acts differently on camera and off" emotion?

[Snarklepuss]

HAHA. This would be one of the est moments on TV ever. But I too don't believe that Neil would be able to rise to the occasion ( in any way). He is so akward, I couldn't imagine what sex with him would be like. I doubt he has ever thought about Sam in a sexual way either.

 

I know, I can't imagine Neil in a sexual way either.  I still don't know whether he has his walls way up due to "stage fright" in front of the camera and due to the way Sam has been treating him, or whether he's just not a very emotional guy and is a uptight about sex, or a combination of all of the above.

[seasick]

"Intimacy part ONE!!!!   You mean there's going to be TWO WEEKS of trying to get these freaks to have sex???   

[Evil Queen]

Sam is an attention seeker but what I do like about her is that she knows what she wants. I don't think she wants a jerk or an asshole but someone who would have the traits of her father. You can tell she respcts him and values his opinions. DIdin't she tell the experts that she wanted a guy that hunted and fished? yup she's definately talking about Daddy. Do I think Neil should change to transform into Dad? Absolutely not. Sam knows that this is impossible, hence why she's half-assing the whole thing for the momet. Neil isn't want she wants. Period.

 

She isn't just an attention seeker. She is pure bitch! She has massive issues going on with herself that she needs to take care. I don't think she even respects her father or anyone. After her father told Neil to man up I have no respect for him. If they gave her a man that she is now claiming she wants and put her in her place she would have none of that. She would have changed her mind and wanted something else. They could have given her a daddy double and she would have said no. She has no clue what she wants at all in the end. I doubt she will ever know what she wants. As I said she is coming off as someone with narcissistic personality disorder. One minute they act one way then the next they are mean and abusive. They want to rip you down in hopes that everything is how they want it and you will never leave them but worship them since its all about them. She has acted as nothing is her fault and put the blame on Neil. Its what those kind of people do. Seen it to much in my life in the past. Neil needs to get out of that mess and save himself before its to late. Those stupid so called experts should be stepping in and calling her out on her crap. I agree with others saying if they had sex she would find whatever fault she could with him in bed. Even if she has to make something up about it to put him down. 

"Intimacy part ONE!!!!   You mean there's going to be TWO WEEKS of trying to get these freaks to have sex???   

 

For some it might just be to hold hands since that hasn't even happened. LOL God forbid the 2 couples that didn't go through with that part of things. More so Neil and Sam though. UGH 

[BonnieLass]

"Intimacy part ONE!!!!   You mean there's going to be TWO WEEKS of trying to get these freaks to have sex???   

"Intimacy Part Two" must be airing later in the season. The next episode - after that one - is "Breaking Down Barriers" on Jan. 19. 

[moonxyz]

. As I said she is coming off as someone with narcissistic personality disorder. 

 

I don't think Sam being rude means that she has a mental disorder. We tend to over-diagnose people when there is no need to . Simply put, she doesn't like Neil, she doesn't respect Neil and projects onto him the responsibility of him not being what she wants for physically or peersonally-wise when the experts are 100% to blame.

 

Re: Sam and Neil's living situation: They definately don't live in the house rented by production. I can't imagine Sam moving into there on a short term basis without her pets, or at least her dog. They only show up when filming is required. And I think it's super dishonest that the producers don't tell viewers about this. 

[ClareWalks]

I disagree, I don't think that Sam knows what she wants. I know she doesn't want Neil, and will tear him apart because she resents being paired up with him. But I don't feel like she's really articulated what she wants.

 

Totally agree. She keeps saying she wants a man who will "put her in her place," but I have known many alpha women who claim they want an even-more-alpha man, and when they get one they fight constantly. A relationship can only handle one alpha, generally speaking. Basically, Sam is mentally a dude, so she thinks she wants a guy who is more "manly" than she is so that she can feel like the girl in the relationship.

[Soup333]

I don't think Sam being rude means that she has a mental disorder. We tend to over-diagnose people when there is no need to . Simply put, she doesn't like Neil, she doesn't respect Neil and projects onto him the responsibility of him not being what she wants for physically or peersonally-wise when the experts are 100% to blame.

 

Re: Sam and Neil's living situation: They definately don't live in the house rented by production. I can't imagine Sam moving into there on a short term basis without her pets, or at least her dog. They only show up when filming is required. And I think it's super dishonest that the producers don't tell viewers about this. 

 

I'd really like to hear what her coworkers think about her. 

[seasick]

I don't think Sam being rude means that she has a mental disorder. We tend to over-diagnose people when there is no need to . Simply put, she doesn't like Neil, she doesn't respect Neil and projects onto him the responsibility of him not being what she wants for physically or peersonally-wise when the experts are 100% to blame.

 

Re: Sam and Neil's living situation: They definately don't live in the house rented by production. I can't imagine Sam moving into there on a short term basis without her pets, or at least her dog. They only show up when filming is required. And I think it's super dishonest that the producers don't tell viewers about this. 

I keep hearing Big Brother saying "you are not allowed to talk about production!!"   which in this day of prolific reality shows is a joke.  We all KNOW they are being filmed.  In fact, that's kiinda the point of the show, or else we'd just see them after 6 weeks.

 

I agree they should bring up the fact that they aren't living there..esp after it came out that none of the couples were living together last season.  They should work with what they have, because it's a REALITY SHOW.  Apparently they do address it this upcoming Ep. We'll see...

[HerApronStrings]

Totally agree. She keeps saying she wants a man who will "put her in her place," but I have known many alpha women who claim they want an even-more-alpha man, and when they get one they fight constantly. A relationship can only handle one alpha, generally speaking. Basically, Sam is mentally a dude, so she thinks she wants a guy who is more "manly" than she is so that she can feel like the girl in the relationship.

I agree 100%. Sam is so worried about not being girly. She also doesn't know her audience. -it feels like she can't imagine the experts/yv audience would disagree with her. In her mind- Neil isn't attractive to her -so Neil isn't an attractive  man.  Neil and maybe David so remind me of who women marry for the 2nd (lasting) marriage.  First they married some alpha guy who thought he was all that-maybe because he was. But, alpha dude who has it all-isn't someone who you can be a friend with-laugh with you thru the non-attractive times like when you're puking on the floor in the bathroom. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by HerApronStrings

[kira28]

None of these couples is going to stay married unless there is some huge financial incentive for doing so. At this point in season 2 two of the couples had consummated their marriage and now only Tres and Vanessa did so. And Vanessa seems disappointed. None of these people are compatible enough to enjoy a few hours blind date much less get married. These "experts are ridiculous. I could have come up with better matches. Of the guys, I find David most attractive. I think its his personality that attracts me, though he reminds me of an ex's step brother so maybe just that he's familiar looking attracts me. Sam is absolutely repulsive. She's bat shit crazy and full blown psycho IMO.  I am not attracted to neil at all. He does look better with the shorter beard but he's too feminine for me. And this might sound conceited but I'm a lot better looking than Sam and she seems to think she's too good for Neil. Honey Neil can find a woman ten times more attractive than you. Sam is just gross. She has this doughy body and her personality stinks. She shouldn't be on this show.

 

And did Ashley wander onto the wrong show by mistake? She acts like a 14 year old girl who thinks boys have cooties. I feel bad for David. But his reaction about father's day was really over the top and scared me. I don't think Ashley was very comforting. She just kept repeating that she didn't know how he felt because she wasn't in that situation. Um how about you just say you know its hard for him and give him a hug? she just looks miserable all the time. I think David would have done better paired with Jacquelyn from last season. Someone fun and genuine.

None of these couples is going to stay married unless there is some huge financial incentive for doing so. At this point in season 2 two of the couples had consummated their marriage and now only Tres and Vanessa did so. And Vanessa seems disappointed. None of these people are compatible enough to enjoy a few hours blind date much less get married. These "experts are ridiculous. I could have come up with better matches. Of the guys, I find David most attractive. I think its his personality that attracts me, though he reminds me of an ex's step brother so maybe just that he's familiar looking attracts me. Sam is absolutely repulsive. She's bat shit crazy and full blown psycho IMO.  I am not attracted to neil at all. He does look better with the shorter beard but he's too feminine for me. And this might sound conceited but I'm a lot better looking than Sam and she seems to think she's too good for Neil. Honey Neil can find a woman ten times more attractive than you. Sam is just gross. She has this doughy body and her personality stinks. She shouldn't be on this show.

 

And did Ashley wander onto the wrong show by mistake? She acts like a 14 year old girl who thinks boys have cooties. I feel bad for David. But his reaction about father's day was really over the top and scared me. I don't think Ashley was very comforting. She just kept repeating that she didn't know how he felt because she wasn't in that situation. Um how about you just say you know its hard for him and give him a hug? she just looks miserable all the time. I think David would have done better paired with Jacquelyn from last season. Someone fun and genuine.

[Evil Queen]

I don't think Sam being rude means that she has a mental disorder. We tend to over-diagnose people when there is no need to . Simply put, she doesn't like Neil, she doesn't respect Neil and projects onto him the responsibility of him not being what she wants for physically or peersonally-wise when the experts are 100% to blame.

 

Re: Sam and Neil's living situation: They definately don't live in the house rented by production. I can't imagine Sam moving into there on a short term basis without her pets, or at least her dog. They only show up when filming is required. And I think it's super dishonest that the producers don't tell viewers about this. 

 

Maybe she is. Maybe she isn't. I have no clue but I do know its not normal for anyone in any situation (including this) to treat another person in the way she has. She has massive issues. Normal people don't put someone down for anything and everything they can think of. Maybe she is enjoys being bully like to others. Who knows but even when you do not like a person you are with that behavior is not normal at all. 

    I do agree that they shouldn't be dishonest about how any of them live. If they live apart say so and have them explain why. I think most of us would get it and understand since its not someone they fully know yet. In Neil and Sam's situation its best if they do really. Honestly they should have ended them already IMO. She has not stopped yet with the insults or complaints. 

[okerry]

I'd still like to know all about Ashley's 9-year relationship that supposedly ended about five minutes before this show started shooting. What was the spurts' opinion of that? She acts like someone who isn't ready for any sort of relationship at all because she's still totally hung up on the old one. JMHO.

 

Sam took one look at Neil and knew it would never work, so she is doing her damndest to sabotage the whole thing while still cashing the paycheck for staying on the show.

 

Vanessa seems so sweet, attractive, and genuine that I can't understand why she's on this show. Tres thought it was a date, a booty call, and a paycheck. Imagine his surprise when the cameras leave and he discovers that Vanessa thinks they're married.

[hatchetgirl]

Oh - I disagree about Neil.  I think he is lovely and would be mroar in the bed.