S01.E01: Jill and Jessa Counting On: A New Chapter

[Morgalisa]

 

Ben and Jessa are the poster children for why you DO NOT marry someone JUST because they're hot. They were both horny, both wanted a hot b/f or g/f, and got married. Now with 6 months of sex under their belts, they're probably realizing it isn't THAT exciting and they have little else in common besides sex and the Bible. In the real world, you date the hot person, have sex or not - your choice, but spend enough time with them to realize in 6 weeks that there is no real relationship and that's that. Here they put a ring on it and made a baby. And frankly what 19 yr old BOY is interested in crib sheets and onsies?? I'm not suggesting that his life would otherwise be a wild frat party, but had he not married her -- he'd be going on Friday night dates with a girlfriend and lounging around a shared apartment all weekend eating pizza and playing video games with his buddies. Now he's playing house . . . .

 

I blame this on Ben's parents.  They (his father) encouraged him to get married.  He is not fully formed and won't be for many years to come.  He is (was) just a horney teenager,  I have an evangelical friend.  Her daughter and boyfriend were told by the parents, pastor and churchmembers,  "It is better to marry than to burn." (As in burn in hell if you have premarital sex. )  So they got married, had a couple of kids and divorced in fewer than 5 years.   All they really wanted was to have sex. not get married,  which they found out soon enough.

[BitterApple]

I can understand why Jill and Jessa were upset about the police report. It was so poorly redacted, they might as well have not even bothered. I can't imagine any sexual abuse survivor being okay having their personal tragedy exposed, even if it was done legally.

However with that said, it hasn't made the family any more sympathetic or tolerant towards those who don't share their beliefs or lifestyle and I think that's why they're getting shredded in the media. Jill and Jessa are too clueless to see that.

[OhioMom]

I can understand why Jill and Jessa were upset about the police report. It was so poorly redacted, they might as well have not even bothered. I can't imagine any sexual abuse survivor being okay having their personal tragedy exposed, even if it was done legally.

However with that said, it hasn't made the family any more sympathetic or tolerant towards those who don't share their beliefs or lifestyle and I think that's why they're getting shredded in the media. Jill and Jessa are too clueless to see that.

I guess  what bothers me about it is that they all seem so stunned that it would even be made public. Really? You know what kind of fanbase you have/had.  You know how people stop you everywhere you go.  Did you really not think that if there were any skeletons in the closet, they wouldn't be found out?  Not saying it's right.  But it comes with the territory.  If you don't want your private life made public, don't put yourself out there in the public eye.

I can understand why Jill and Jessa were upset about the police report. It was so poorly redacted, they might as well have not even bothered. I can't imagine any sexual abuse survivor being okay having their personal tragedy exposed, even if it was done legally.

However with that said, it hasn't made the family any more sympathetic or tolerant towards those who don't share their beliefs or lifestyle and I think that's why they're getting shredded in the media. Jill and Jessa are too clueless to see that.

I guess  what bothers me about it is that they all seem so stunned that it would even be made public. Really? You know what kind of fanbase you have/had.  You know how people stop you everywhere you go.  Did you really not think that if there were any skeletons in the closet, they wouldn't be found out?  Not saying it's right.  But it comes with the territory.  If you don't want your private life made public, don't put yourself out there in the public eye.

[Adeejay]

The thing that stood out the most for me was that Izzy was always being carried and not by his mom.  My back ached watching poor Joy Anna lugging him for how ever long in the children's store.   Doesn't he have a stroller?

 

Ben seemed over it.  Can't help but believe he is seeing Jessa's real personality and it isn't pretty, plus being constantly surrounded by Duggars.   What on earth happened to Derick's face?

Edited December 14, 2015 by Adeejay

[galax-arena]

It was so poorly redacted, they might as well have not even bothered.

IIRC it was a standard redaction, it's not like the authorities fell asleep on the job redacting the report before releasing it. It's just that the other details in the report made it possible for dedicated fans to put the pieces together. Of course, that raises the question of whether the redaction process itself should be reformed.

 

Still, no one (in the heathen world, anyway) made Jessa and Jill officially "out" themselves. One could argue, "Well, yeah, but as you point out, the non-redacted details made it possible to put the pieces together regardless." And that's true, and I imagine that a number of people would have figured out that Jessa and Jill were two of the victims regardless. But it certainly wouldn't have been as widespread and splashed across all of popular media the way it was. Most people would probably just have figured that Josh's victims were his sisters. Still bad, but not terribly specific considering how many girls are in the Duggar family. I actually had no idea which sisters were molested at first and I had no interest in trying to figure it out, assuming that they'd prefer to remain anonymous. I know that the mods here also squashed any discussion/speculation trying to figure out who the victims were.

 

They came forward because they wanted to save the gravy train. Not only did the Duggars as a family lose sympathy for the total lack of self-awareness re: their hypocrisy in painting transgender people as child molesters, during that Fox special they lost sympathy for essentially minimizing/dismissing that sort of abuse in general - "oh, it was only over the clothes" - and trying to speak for the other victims (Jessa, anyway). And Jessa in particular continues to be an OTT brat on instagram, hurling moral judgments at the rest of us.

 

If you don't want your private life made public, don't put yourself out there in the public eye.

Or at the very least don't sell yourselves as paragons of moral virtue when you have that big-ass skeleton in the closet.

 

ETA: I do understand Jessa and Jill being upset about the release of the report either way. Even if everything were on the up and up and nothing shady had happened to secure the report's release, it's still not a good feeling to have something like this end up as tabloid fodder, regardless of whether your names are redacted or not. But it's unfortunate that the Duggars so badly fumbled the ball in handling it.

Edited December 14, 2015 by galax-arena

[Chicklet]

 

Or at the very least don't sell yourselves as paragons of moral virtue when you have that big-ass skeleton in the closet.

I want to cross stitch this and then mail it to the Duggars to hang in the big ass living room, or in the prayer closet.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Chicklet

[Morgalisa]

I thought that document was lightly redacted and provided more information than it could have.  When I was a government employee, we occasionally received documents that were so heavily redacted that there was not a single word on a page.  I have seen multi-page documents totally blacked out, which made them worthless.

[SoSueMe]

What on earth happened to Derick's face?

Poor guy. Something obviously went wrong. His lower jaw is shifted sideways and one eye is off somehow. Possible muscle/nerve damage during surgery? Also when he spoke about the the surgery it seemed like he was sounding like it was a work in progress...?

[galax-arena]

I thought that document was lightly redacted and provided more information than it could have.  When I was a government employee, we occasionally received documents that were so heavily redacted that there was not a single word on a page.  I have seen multi-page documents totally blacked out, which made them worthless.

Yeah, but that's government stuff aka Highly Classified Shit. I'm assuming that the overall standards for redaction when it comes to political secrets are a lot higher. From what I've seen, the general standard for abuse reports is that explicitly identifying information is left out, but almost everything else is kept in. There are a lot of other abuse reports where, if you're a part of the community, it would be very easy to figure out who the victims were because the peripheral identifying information was kept. Sucks for the victims, and maybe it means abuse report redactions need to be modified, but it's not a case of the media trying to specifically screw over the Duggars the way they were implying.

 

Disclaimer: I do not actually know what the standards for abuse report redactions are. This is just going by what I've seen from other reports and news articles. There was nothing in that report that made me think, "Aha, the Duggars were right, someone in the department that released the report definitely had an agenda!"

Edited December 14, 2015 by galax-arena

[DangerousMinds]

Derick, people who "don't read the bible" are well-acquainted with the phrase "pride goeth before the fall." He thinks he's so damn humble, but he has a shit ton of inlaws who are prideful in spades, starting at the top and working down to prize examples Smuggar and Jessa. 

 

For starters. 

 

Next! 

 

Oh, I don't think Apple is sponsoring them anymore. The logo on Muffy's computer was blurred out! LOL

 

 

eta: The only "consquences" any Duggar not named Anna suffered from Joshley Madison was the final axing of 19 Kids. If they feel emotional distress because their brother was a lying cheat, that's different and not a "consequence" of Josh's choices. It's their own emotional baggage. JD and maybe Joe are the only ones with reasonable complaints. 

IMO Josh's cheating is no one's business except his and Anna's. The molestation is a whole other issue. 

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[BitterApple]

For me, the biggest shock of the night was how well JD and Joseph spoke in their respective TH's. I'd never considered either one of them to be particularly bright, but they sounded articulate and composed.

I also thought it interesting when Josiah stated how some of their friends shunned them. Was that a subtle dig towards Fickle Famewhore Marjorie?

Edited December 14, 2015 by BitterApple

[Chicklet]

Friends shunning them sure does speak well of their Christian friends doesn't it? I wonder that they have never been on that end of the judging but it's a good object lesson for them. I think I remember Jesus or someone in the Bible speaking about houses and glass stones or something like that. And judge not lest you be judged?

I messed it up but I like my version being the lapsed Methodist that I am.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Chicklet

[DangerousMinds]

Solidly-agree. I was trying to imagine how I'd feel if I learned my brother had cheated on his wife, and there's just NO WAY I'd be able to shed sincere tears over it. I'd be sympathetic to my SIL of course, and depending on how I learned about the cheating, I might give my brother a piece of two of my mind. I would be disappointed, but not to the point of tears. In general my attitude would be "None of my business - it's between the two of them only..." As I was taught by my parents. The THs shown tonight were definitely coached by Boob, and designed to show that it's pretty clear that the older half of the family believes Josh sank a lot more boats than his own with his little adventures. 

This is exactly how I would feel. Not my business. Certainly no tears.

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by DangerousMinds

[galax-arena]

I think I remember Jesus or someone in the Bible speaking about houses and glass stones or something like that. And judge not lest you be judged?

I messed it up but I like my version being the lapsed Methodist that I am.

I can see Ben Seewald shuddering over your heathen-ness. Somewhere he's muttering about planks and specks. 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Ben looked like Moe from The Three Stooges!  Jessa in the bathroom with camera crew there tosses her hair over and throws it back then coils her hair...gee it could have been a promo for a sex ad!!  Man she is full of herself and Ben cooking like a good little boy!  Jinger looked hot too rocking that long black dress, hair pulled off in a sexy look and beautiful make up.  And all the girls wearing the same big earrings?!  They have come a long way from the same red dresses down to their ankles with closed toe shoes and white round neck collars now haven't they.  

 

No words about how awful and sick Derrick appears to be.  Wow whoever told him his braces wouldn't work without breaking his jaw needs to have never put braces into his mouth in the first place and should be sued!  Both he and Ben look resigned to their life serving their "beloved".....and it ain't the Lord!!  

[Ketzel]

To paraphrase that old Alka Seltzer commercial, I can't believe I watched the whole thing! (Bonus points to anyone who remembers the reply to that line.)

Didn't watch the "special," but can't resist bonus points. :)

"You [watched/ate] it, Ralph!"

Edited December 14, 2015 by Ketzel

[yogi2014L]

 

This is exactly how I would feel. Not my business. Certainly no tears.

The tears are for all the money they lost. That is all.

[poopchute]

Jessa and Ben talk to each other like they're on an uncomfortable first date. The conversation is awkward and stilted.

I felt like every conversation between anyone was so weird and awkward. Even Jill and Jessa having a conversation is super awkward. Everyone seemed to be talking to each other like they were strangers! No one seems comfortable or familiar with each other. They barely even seem to like each other. I have never seen married people so weird and uncomfortable around each other.

Jessa and Ben talk to each other like they're on an uncomfortable first date. The conversation is awkward and stilted.

I felt like every conversation between anyone was so weird and awkward. Even Jill and Jessa having a conversation is super awkward. Everyone seemed to be talking to each other like they were strangers! No one seems comfortable or familiar with each other. They barely even seem to like each other. I have never seen married people so weird and uncomfortable around each other.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Ben looked like Moe from The Three Stooges!  Jessa in the bathroom with camera crew there tosses her hair over and throws it back then coils her hair...gee it could have been a promo for a sex ad!!  Man she is full of herself and Ben cooking like a good little boy!  Jinger looked hot too rocking that long black dress, hair pulled off in a sexy look and beautiful make up.  And all the girls wearing the same big earrings?!  They have come a long way from the same red dresses down to their ankles with closed toe shoes and white round neck collars now haven't they.  

 

No words about how awful and sick Derrick appears to be.  Wow whoever told him his braces wouldn't work without breaking his jaw needs to have never put braces into his mouth in the first place and should be sued!  Both he and Ben look resigned to their life serving their "beloved".....and it ain't the Lord!!  

[Churchhoney]

Joy Anna is a stunningly beautiful girl and I think it's really shitty they made her do a TH. Even though she's 18, I feel like she's too young to be put on the spot like that.

 

 

Did I read somewhere that Joy was among those who said something about dropping Josh as their role model when the Ashley Madison stuff came out? Because if she ever had as her role model Chester the Molester.... Words fail me. .... And of course that would have been directed by JB and M. And it's not like she didn't have seven other older brothers and sisters she could have had as a role model.

 

I'm hoping that she didn't say this and I read a false report. Because if she did, as Aja mentioned the other day There are not enough WTFs in the physical universe....

Jessa and Ben talk to each other like they're on an uncomfortable first date.  The conversation is awkward and stilted.

Now that she and Jinger don't seem all that comfortable with each other either, I wonder whether there's anyone with whom Jessa has a non-awkward-and-stilted conversation. I'm thinking not. And that's very sad. As it is for any of the rest of the kids who are in such a boat.

[RazzleberryPie]

Josh makes his affair our business, or other aspects of his moral life, when he takes a high profile, high paying job as a public representative who promotes 'moral Christian family values' that stress family, faith, fidelity, etc and condemn anyone in a non-nuclear Evangelical lifestyle. He's a liar and a hypocrite and deserves to be outed. If he doesn't care any more for his spouse and family, his employers, even his fans, then he needs to shut his pie hole about telling the rest of us how to live.

[Missy Vixen]

I would not be surprise if JB knew what Josh was up to. He was nervous when Josh announced he was going to D.C. How did they not understand one day the molestation and hooker/porn scandals would not come out one day. I guess the TLC money, famewhoring and trying to prove they were the world's best fundie family ever was a big as a temptation as Josh's hookers were to him.

Just throwing this one out here: The network administrator at Joshley Madison's former employer knew what he was up to as well. And I'm a little shocked there was no attempt to block those sites so employees could not access them.

[BitterApple]

Ben looked like Moe from The Three Stooges! Jessa in the bathroom with camera crew there tosses her hair over and throws it back then coils her hair...gee it could have been a promo for a sex ad!! Man she is full of herself and Ben cooking like a good little boy! Jinger looked hot too rocking that long black dress, hair pulled off in a sexy look and beautiful make up. And all the girls wearing the same big earrings?! They have come a long way from the same red dresses down to their ankles with closed toe shoes and white round neck collars now haven't they.

No words about how awful and sick Derrick appears to be. Wow whoever told him his braces wouldn't work without breaking his jaw needs to have never put braces into his mouth in the first place and should be sued! Both he and Ben look resigned to their life serving their "beloved".....and it ain't the Lord!!

Jessa's coy hair flipping reminded me of those "Seeking Arrangement" commercials they play late at night. Bin is definitely a well-trained poodle, making eggs while Jessa fusses over herself in the mirror.

I can't make heads or tails of Derick's orthodontic issues. I needed a palate expander in middle school, however I had one of those devices that went across the roof of my mouth. I didn't require surgery where my jaw was broken and my entire face rearranged into something resembling a Picasso painting. Hopefully it all comes together for Derick in the end.

[Churchhoney]

I don't think I'd ever seen Joy wear so much makeup.  She always looks so natural, but she had a ton of makeup on during her TH, and it was really noticeable when she was in tears.  Also noticed that Jana was glammed up a bit during her TH (a bit more makeup than usual and curls in hair instead of her normal straight hair).  I can't help but wonder if it was just having the tv hair/makeup people around again or if they were trying to "market" the two girls.  

 

Speaking of marketing the older kids as spouses, it strikes me that this show could have put a real crimp in any plan like that. I didn't watch it, but there seems to be general agreement that Derick looks and acts like he's been run over by a bus since his Duggar wedding and even that the thrill seems to be gone from Ben and Jessa's barely year-old marriage. And of course we got a huge dose of what happened to Anna. ..... Hard to think that people won't see a pattern there and shy away from the marriageable Duggs even more.

[ZoloftBlob]

I understand if some of you don't want to watch the specials but why would you email sponsors and hurt the people who do want to watch them? It seems like no one is thinking of the people who still like the duggars and don't care if they ruin it for them.

 

I'm not. I also didn't watch the show last night because I don't support the whitewashing of the elder Duggars cover up up. I didn't much care for the Duggars to begin with but they were ruined for me when Michelle made it absolutely clear that *Josh* was the biggest victiim in his putting his hands on his sisters genitals. She dismissed her daughters being violated with "they don't remember, they were asleep so praise Jesus and someone hand me another award for Mom of the year!".

 

I would have no problem with Apple and McDonalds and Biglots sponsoring a commercial laden pay per view of Michelle and Jim Bob and Josh all having a little sit down where they weren't allowed to turn on the tears and say nothing but "we did our best!". I want some damn details on how they did something other than NOTHING for their kids. After years of this family pratting how godly they are, watching them shit on the once golden prince wasn't really enough for me. If the special isn't about Michelle and Jimbob admitting that maybe they didn't spend enough time parenting their brood and that they don't deserve all the accolades for raising a molestor who also cheats on his wife while they spend their time bitching about the homos... then I think they need to be off the air until they think about why no one wants to sponsor "19 Kids and We Don't Care Who Josh Diddles as Long as We're Getting Paid!"

[Almost 3000]

No kidding. I flipped back and forth between the show and Sunday night football on NBC. It seemed that they s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d that clothing shopping trip out for approximately for.ever. I didn't see what they ended up buying, but somehow it doesn't surprise me that they didn't end up with much. Because, really, if you're gonna buy a big lot of clothing to take to an orphanage, wouldn't you start by talking to the store manager? Both to locate most efficiently the stuff you're looking for, including anything they have in the back that they haven't put out on the racks yet, and maybe to negotiate a bulk deal if possible. The latter maybe not so possible if it's a resale shop, but you never know until you try. 

 

But oh no, The Dullest People In America have to wander the aisles for an excruciatingly long time making boring inarticulate noises and languidly fingering the merchandise.

 

As I said, not surprising they came up with a very few things. Since it was all a stunt for the show. Probably scripted by TLC.

I thought Binessa's display of putting on the crib skirt to be even more drawn out and boring. I think it took them about an hour, at least!

[leighdear]

Thanks to all that compromised their eyeballs and eardrums by watching and listening.  While I did not watch, I can honestly say that the comments posted here have painted a vivid and comprehensive picture of what was televised.  You all deserve your places in heaven.  Or pints of Ben & Jerry's, whichever you prefer. ;-)

 

I always felt the tears shed on camera were for the humiliation and embarrassment they all must be feeling.  The knowledge that a goop like Josh would be the one to take down their mighty empire has got to be the most painful realization of all.  There is just no recovering from that level of stupidity. 

 

And John David, in pursuit of his pilot's license and law enforcement credentials, has got to have a much higher level of reading comprehension, vocabulary and reasoning than the others.  He may have started out at SOTDRT, but I imagine he's bypassed the intellect of every single other Duggar.   

[Wellfleet]

I get what you're saying, and I think the same would be true of me re: not actually shedding tears if my brother had cheated. But in my family, we were taught not to take crap off partners and so we would be getting good and angry, not crying. But the Duggar girls - and hell, even the parents - must be so perplexed that being all Jesus-y seems to fail so often. Gothard himself turned out to be a creeper, after all.

I believe that people who adhere to these types of cults tend to be very fearful, and have a need to feel that they can control a scary, sinful world. So a Situation like this must shake their world to its core. Who didn't pray hard enough? Who can you trust if Satan can be lurking within your beloved brother? It is whole different world for these girls. They have been taught not to get angry, ever. So that gets turned inward and becomes sorrow or depression. I suspect Jessa may be the only one sassy or tough enough to be thinking the fundie equivalent of"screw Josh."

Speaking of whom, will he ever see these specials? How horribly humiliating. Yeah, he acted the dick, but wow.

 

Personally, I think Josh needs to see these specials - and I hope he does. And if it's difficult for him, good. Criticism from his family could well be the only thing to get his attention at this point. That makes him realize he has real problems and that he might even need REAL help for them - and not just endless prayer and Bible-thumping. If he had strep throat - or heart disease, he'd see a doctor as quickly as anyone else. Why is it that fundies can't see that mental-psychological-emotional problems need the same kind of treatment, by qualified professionals? Boob believes that Jesus sent TLC to them, to make them TV stars, to make them rich etc. This he believes beyond any doubt. Why couldn't Jesus have created - through education - clinical psychologists, social workers and psychiatrists to provide help with emotional problems? 

Edited December 14, 2015 by Wellfleet

[JoanArc]

Just throwing this one out here: The network administrator at Joshley Madison's former employer knew what he was up to as well. And I'm a little shocked there was no attempt to block those sites so employees could not access them.

There's no evidence he used his work computer for AM. He sure did have an iphone glued to his hands, though.

[GinnyLee]

I understand if some of you don't want to watch the specials but why would you email sponsors and hurt the people who do want to watch them? It seems like no one is thinking of the people who still like the duggars and don't care if they ruin it for them.

 

As much as the Duggars annoy us, let's face it, we all keep watching. So I have to agree with you. Even after JoshGate, I'm a bit bummed out that they aren't on anymore.  So I won't be emailing any sponsors. 

[Clemgo3165]

Kellyee, I agree there did seem to be an overreaction to the cheating. Josh is hardly the first guy to bang an escort because he's bored with married life. It's wrong and he's a slimeball, but the kids were taking it so personally. I guess it's because the whole family got dragged through the mud thanks to his fuck-ups, but, in context to child molestation, adultery is much lower on the bad guy scale.

 

I'm not seeing it as an overreaction to the cheating, more like the disappointment of an entire family when they've discovered in a very public way that their firstborn son and eldest brother has been blowing smoke for most of his life. They thought after the molestation that it was just a juvenile mistake and that he'd found his way. Having a successful career, a lovely wife, and four adorable kiddos - perfect example of fundie success. All to find out that he'd been lying to them the whole time. 

 

I'd also bet that it drew their standing down even further among their community. How did they not know what Josh was up to? What kind of family creates this kind of deviant? Etc., etc., etc.

[Wellfleet]

I ended up watching this.  The title seemed a bit misleading.  While Jill and Jessa were prominently featured in the "storyline", it seemed like it was more about the 18 and older Duggar kids (I would say excluding Josh, but considering that his "story" was a big part of the episode, he was there in "spirit").  Aside from Jill leaving and Jessa giving birth, I'm wondering where this show will go in the future if they decide to bring it back as a series or more specials.  Ben/Jessa and Derek/Jill were boring and it was the other siblings that made the show more interesting.  

 

I don't think I'd ever seen Joy wear so much makeup.  She always looks so natural, but she had a ton of makeup on during her TH, and it was really noticeable when she was in tears.  Also noticed that Jana was glammed up a bit during her TH (a bit more makeup than usual and curls in hair instead of her normal straight hair).  I can't help but wonder if it was just having the tv hair/makeup people around again or if they were trying to "market" the two girls.  

 

All the teen-or-older Duggar females seem to wear a lot of makeup. But I do wonder - are they professionally-made up for filming? I've never noticed a hair/makeup person in the credits but then I've never looked either. I've been assuming they do it all themselves. One more fundie rule  - "strangers cannot touch countenances" or something equally-goofy.

[BitterApple]

Thanks to all that compromised their eyeballs and eardrums by watching and listening. While I did not watch, I can honestly say that the comments posted here have painted a vivid and comprehensive picture of what was televised. You all deserve your places in heaven. Or pints of Ben & Jerry's, whichever you prefer. ;-)

Send me a case of Cherry Garcia and we'll call it even;)

I can't wait for next week's episode when Jill and Derick head off to their super secret, ultra dangerous mission post in Central America.....which happens to be a popular tourist destination within short driving distance to Walmart and other big box stores. But, like, they could go missing at like, any, like time, so um, pray for them y'all.

At least Derick's snaggletooth braces could make for a decent weapon against muggers. One bite from him would do more damage than a pit bull.

Edited December 14, 2015 by BitterApple

[NikSac]

I feel certain that it's been said before, but if you take the colon out of the episode title and add "because God forbid we might have to actually work for a living," it's dead on.

Also it occurs to me that if we here had come up with "Spurgeon" as a nickname for the baby there would be posts accusing us of meanness and possibly mod action.

Ain't it like, ironic, y'all.

 

Sounds about right!

 

And re: Spurgeon, yes, every time I see that stickied mod-note about no mean nicknames for a baby I think "but, there's SPURGEON."  I mean what do you do with that? We've tried to make it cute...Spurge...Spurgey... but it just isn't working.

[Aja]

I understand if some of you don't want to watch the specials but why would you email sponsors and hurt the people who do want to watch them? It seems like no one is thinking of the people who still like the duggars and don't care if they ruin it for them.

The Duggars are dangerous, not only on a personal level but also what they seek to accomplish with their rhetoric. There are literally millions of Christians in this country who behave like Christians and get no recognition for it, and don't expect any. The Duggars are typical money-hungry, entitled worshippers at their own altar, sacrificing their family's well-being for the almighty dollar. Wrapping everything up in Jesus paper may have fooled some people into thinking they were an awesome family, at least temporarily, but make no mistake... the way they've repeatedly victimized their children, exerted abusive control over their daughters, lied to protect their disturbed son and happily collected huge paychecks and freebies whilst presenting themselves as some sort of American ideal is the opposite of any Christian value I've ever been told about. 

 

On a more personal note, anybody who records a robo-call accusing me of being a danger to children because I fall in love with women while KNOWING FOR A FACT that her son is a very real threat to children but it's all good because WE PRAYED!...I have no feeling for that person. None. That is the voice of hate and the only thing a responsible society can do is ignore it, not continuously give it People covers and TLC specials.

[bigskygirl]

With Josh going down in flames, they are probably trying to make JD look good by trying to pretend he is the next big Duggar success and will be a great catch for any fundie girl. I would not call him a success.

[Wellfleet]

The tears are for all the money they lost. That is all.

 

The lost money - and the embarrassment. They've been humiliated from coast to coast. Josh did that too.

[NikSac]

So many interesting moments in this show. First, the new angle on how they discuss the molestation. I noticed they've dropped their line about it being nothing, about being asleep while it happened, and about not even remembering it because they were sleeping. They're painting themselves more as victims now, and I couldn't decide if that was to stick it to Josh, or just a play for sympathy to get people to watch the show.

 

Or maybe they're getting closer to <gasp> the truth?  Because we know at least two of them weren't asleep.

[Wellfleet]

For me, the biggest shock of the night was how well JD and Joseph spoke in their respective TH's. I'd never considered either one of them to be particularly bright, but they sounded articulate and composed.

I also thought it interesting when Josiah stated how some of their friends shunned them. Was that a subtle dig towards Fickle Famewhore Marjorie?

 

JD and Joseph have both had a lot of contact with human beings who aren't their family. Joseph's been attending college, and JD meets the public in his rent-a-cop job. This has got to account - to some extent at least - for the fact that they're so much more articulate than their sibs. 

[Ilovemylabs]

1.  I wish Jill, Jessa, et. al. would drop the use of "like' and 'um' from their comments.  It began to grate on me early on.

2.  The show was TOO LONG with lots of repeats of the same material.  The only new stuff was comments from Josiah, Joseph, JD, Jinger, Jana, and Joy.

3.  I choose to believe that the Duggar girls who were victims of their brother's fondling had actually forgiven him for that and moved on (not sure about victim #5).  I also think they really did feel re-victimized when the reports surfaced, because they had put all of that behind them.  Agree with someone who posted that the 'redacting' job was very poor.

4.  Did Josiah actually use the word "friends" when he said that some people shunned them?  They are out in public all the time and perhaps he meant that people who used to come up and  pay compliments, now came up and criticized the family.  I'll have to watch that segment again.

5.  I, and I guess I'm alone here, never got the impression that the Duggars claimed they were a perfect family.  I think they presented themselves as a family with a particular set of beliefs that were perfect for them. They tried to live those beliefs.  I cannot recall (please correct me) ever hearing them say that other people should live the way they did.  Many of their speaking engagements were to like minded groups, so they were preaching to the choir, so to speak.   And, yes, they were active politically for things they believed in.  Even if they were wrong about some of those things, it is their right as Americans to speak out.  So I cannot hate the Duggars.  I feel sorry for them, as I would for any non-famous family going through the same thing.    I believe their disbelief, sorrow, and disappointment at Josh's actions is genuine.  I do agree that all of this has been aggravated by the fact that they have lived their lives on television, and that was their choice.  I also cannot condemn Jill and Jessa for consenting to these specials.  This type of life is all they have ever known.  They are woefully ignorant of other ways to live.  So there you have my opinion on the Duggars.  As I posted when the Ashley Madison stuff came out, I cannot be gleeful over all this. 

[NikSac]

But, like, they could go missing at like, any, like time, so um, pray for them y'all.

 

And send money.

[amitville]

The Duggars are dangerous, not only on a personal level but also what they seek to accomplish with their rhetoric. There are literally millions of Christians in this country who behave like Christians and get no recognition for it, and don't expect any. The Duggars are typical money-hungry, entitled worshippers at their own altar, sacrificing their family's well-being for the almighty dollar. Wrapping everything up in Jesus paper may have fooled some people into thinking they were an awesome family, at least temporarily, but make no mistake... the way they've repeatedly victimized their children, exerted abusive control over their daughters, lied to protect their disturbed son and happily collected huge paychecks and freebies whilst presenting themselves as some sort of American ideal is the opposite of any Christian value I've ever been told about. 

 

On a more personal note, anybody who records a robo-call accusing me of being a danger to children because I fall in love with women while KNOWING FOR A FACT that her son is a very real threat to children but it's all good because WE PRAYED!...I have no feeling for that person. None. That is the voice of hate and the only thing a responsible society can do is ignore it, not continuously give it People covers and TLC specials.

Bravo Bravo .  Post of the day.

[lookeyloo]

Sounds about right!

 

And re: Spurgeon, yes, every time I see that stickied mod-note about no mean nicknames for a baby I think "but, there's SPURGEON."  I mean what do you do with that? We've tried to make it cute...Spurge...Spurgey... but it just isn't working.

How about Spur???

[sleekandchic]

Are the Duggars, including Anna, planning on making a career out of publicly flogging Josh? Have Jill or Jessa and their husbands, for example, had an opportunity to connect with Josh as a human being? Is Josh now an object of hatred to the extent that he's persona non grata back at the compound?

There's no doubt in my mind that Anna and Josh will reconcile. Then what happens?

I think all the tears, anger and "shock" over Josh's actions are BS, expressly conjured up for a storyline and to prolong audience interest.

I also think what the Duggar family is doing to Josh is shameful. If their concern for their husband's/brother's/son's spiritual and mental welfare is GENUINE, they shouldn't be on tv beating Josh the Dead Horse over and over.

TLC dropped the ball by not offering a Josh Duggar Pinata for holiday shoppers to buy. The Duggars are figuratively beating Josh to death.

Eta: I can't bear Josh's smug, self-righteous, know-it-all attitudes. But, to me, what his family is doing to him publicly is not the right thing.

Edited December 14, 2015 by sleekandchic

[Ljohnson1987]

I cannot believe they found an hour an half of material. What a snorefest.

[Ljohnson1987]

How was the family able to work through this, if they didn't go to real counseling? The kids can say all they want that they got counseling, but Jesus camp, doesn't count. They're in denial.

[galax-arena]

And, yes, they were active politically for things they believed in.  Even if they were wrong about some of those things, it is their right as Americans to speak out.  So I cannot hate the Duggars.

Sure, it's their right to politically stump for the causes they believe in. No one's arguing otherwise. But I can certainly and most definitely will hate on them for doing so by spreading dehumanizing and hateful lies attempting to strip a marginalized population of their civil rights. We're talking about a society where a record number of transgender people were killed just this year and 41% (IIRC) of them attempt suicide at least once. And the Duggars - well, Michelle - had the absolute unmitigated gall to point her finger at transgender people and call them child molesters, all the while knowing what her own family was hiding?? You don't get a free pass on spreading hateful rhetoric just because "it's your right." So I absolutely do hate the Duggars and feel completely unapologetic about it.

 

I also feel sorry for Jessa, Jill, and the other victims for going through what they went through. Nobody deserves to be abused no matter how loathsome they are. (And, well, it's not like Jill was the one making the robocalls.) But that doesn't mitigate the hatred and anger I feel towards the Duggars for dehumanizing people the way they did. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by galax-arena

[Aja]

Exactly. Spout stupidity all you want, I'll ignore it just like I ignore "those" family members on my Facebook feed. Start to try to pass laws to restrict ANYBODY'S human rights, and you're no longer exercising free speech. You're trying to force your religious beliefs on society to the point that people can face legal consequences if they  don't believe in the same book that you believe in. That is a damn slippery slope. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by Aja

[winsomeone]

All of that crying, mostly without tears, and not one mention of any sorrow for what Anna is going through. Just seemed odd to me. Josh cheating on her didn't harm his brothers and sisters, it harmed his wife and children. Period. It might have embarrassed the rest of them because it was made public, but to the point of crying on TV?

[Missy Vixen]

There's no evidence he used his work computer for AM. He sure did have an iphone glued to his hands, though.

If he was using a company-issued iPhone for his fun (or the bill was expensed each month) the data usage charge was most likely astronomical.

 

He was busted earlier in life for using a campaign's PC for accessing porn.

 

Mostly, someone else knew and it's a miracle nobody came forward a long time ago.