General Gabbery: DWTS

[Shannon L.]

 

Val and Peta have been seen in FL so are probably there with Meryl and Charlie.

I was afraid of that (but am fine with Val/Meryl, even though it's not what I'd hoped for).

[superdeluxe]

Val and Peta have been seen in FL so are probably there with Meryl and Charlie.

If true, Maks got his wish to "keep it in the family".  Why am I not surprised?

[Victura]

Amy tweeted a picture with her partner for the week, and it looks an awful lot like Mark.

Not pleased with the idea of Charlie/Peta. I would've given anyone else but her to Charlie (even though my preference was Cheryl), and given Peta Drew. Charlie/Peta were one of the examples given on the show for the switch though, so if what the troupe member said was true and the producers did what they wanted, perhaps Candace and Maks, the other example given on the show, are paired together.

Not thrilled with Meryl and Val either, though at least he has shown he can give interesting choreography.

Any idea of the dance styles for any of the couples?

Edited April 4, 2014 by Victura

[carlyhope]

While I don't like Derek I think I would be interested to see him with Danica. I really like her partnership with Val and it could be interesting to compare a bit.

While I woudl love to see Derek with Nene, I think I much rather see her with Maks who I think is the only pro taller than her? I like teh way she moves and I think she has potential but the size disproportion is a bit distracting so i would really like to just see her dance.

I don't mind Peta with Charlie. I wonder whom Cody will get and if they make him wear proper pants and leave hip hop at home.

[Sparky]

If true, Maks got his wish to "keep it in the family".  Why am I not surprised?

TPTB are treating Maks very well this season, aren't they? :)

Although I'm very much enjoying the meltdown at Pure over their perceived switch voting manipulations (years of past manipulations were fine with them as long as they favored Derek) the partnerships seem based on the idea that Derek might not have been able to travel with Meryl this week because of Stars of Dance starting next week. So Val got Meryl as the next highest vote getter.

If true, Maks got his wish to "keep it in the family".  Why am I not surprised?

TPTB are treating Maks very well this season, aren't they? :)

Although I'm very much enjoying the meltdown at Pure over their perceived switch voting manipulations (years of past manipulations were fine with them as long as they favored Derek) the partnerships seem based on the idea that Derek might not have been able to travel with Meryl this week because of Stars of Dance starting next week. So Val got Meryl as the next highest vote getter.

[superdeluxe]

TPTB are treating Maks very well this season, aren't they?

Well, Conrad Green seems to be in love with the dude.

[Sparky]

Well, Conrad Green seems to be in love with the dude.

Does this mean Conrad's love affair with Derek has ended? Hoo boy, if that's the case, I need to lay in a supply of popcorn to munch while I watch the Derek fan fireworks. It would be a strange new world for them..hahaha!

[superdeluxe]

Does this mean Conrad's love affair with Derek has ended?

I don't think Conrad Green ever had a love affair with Derek.

[Rrrhumba]

No, Derek gets Nene. They will do a dance that winks in passing to whatever style they've been assigned,the judges will tongue-bath them and thus the legend of Derek-Hough-the-great-can-take-any-partner-and-manipulate-their-limbs-in-time-with-a-smoke-machine-bestestever-choreographer marches on...

[StayClassySD]

I fail to see what the big deal about Charlie and Peta is. I think they will be just fine together. Peta is a lovely dancer IMO.

[polarvortex]

I fail to see what the big deal about Charlie and Peta is. I think they will be just fine together. Peta is a lovely dancer IMO.

Other than a height mismatch, I don't see much of a problem. Peta would look taller than Charlie, if she in heels and they are not doing contemporary.

I'm loving Amy, Charlie, Danica and James. 

Count me in as one of the few who hasn't warmed up to Meryl and Maks. A lot of their "dancing" seems more of posing, jumping, fake kissing etc. which could be attributed to Maks' choreo or lack thereof.  

Edited April 5, 2014 by polarvortex

[Uncle Owdy]

I'm seeing several comments about the Switch Up and Pure.

I've seen a lot of things over the years that I thought were being manipulated, and I'm more a fan of Anna, Kym, Edyta, Tristan, and some others they're no longer hiring than I am of some of the current pros.  I certainly know the producers can be counted on to make decisions that are very harmful to the future of the show, and haven't a clue what they might do next. But something going on this week involves a mistake made on a fan site that's being blamed on the show, rather than being acknowledged.  Tuesday they posted a list of switch up pairs that they said was a result of the twitter vote, and it was not. 

Pure made an amateur error in their counting method, and they haven't yet told their readers. They asserted that both Derek and Meryl's schedules were known well in advance.  It precluded a pairing, but they didn't put it together for their readers.

I have never posted at Pure, but I lurked there often and enjoyed the site since it's beginning, until the last couple of years.  And that makes me very sad, because when they started that site, they started something wonderful.

Readers at Pure who spent the week voting hard were misinformed about the results because the folks at their site doing the vote counting made an error in setting up the search for votes with spaces in them.
The vote counting tools they used could not count the votes properly unless they typed quote marks around each string with spaces in it. Without " " marks around the pair name that had  spaces between the names the count would come out wrong. The tool would look at a tweet that had five or six different pairs voted for in the one tweet and take one name out of one pair and another name out of another pair and count them as paired together. If the Pure folks doing the counting had used quotes, they would not have gotten every pair wrong but one.

The statisticians who counted the votes for DWTSMaksimFan and for TeamAmyDerek and a Candace fan said that they all came up with vote counts that exactly matched each other and not one of them matched Pure's vote count.( It is not a bad thing not to understand the fine points of the technicalities of computerized data tabulating on Twitter Hashtags.  Just a little requirement that all the techs knew to do and Pure folks and people counting votes at Pure, new to it, might not.  The voters didn't need to use quotes, but the counters did)

So several different opposing fan teams each counted the votes independent of each other and got results with numbers that matched each others' tallies, exactly. They only matched one pair that Pure's count came up with and that showed up in checking to be a coincidence. The numbers didn't match but the pair of Mark and Amy happened in all counts. They ran some tests and discovered the error that created all the pairs that Pure was posting, exactly.
So Tuesday, after the voting had ended, several very different fan groups had the same votes counted with the same results.

It was already clear that the pair of Derek/Meryl could not work, either from ineligibility or unavailability. Derek and Meryl had worked together before the show when he assisted with some of the choreography for their short program performance.

Also, Meryl was to be skating and learning a group of new programs for Stars on Ice in Florida and at the White House this week and Derek was having his movie premier and his debut as a creative adviser to Macy Stars of Dance happening this week. So Derek was either ineligible or unavailable to work with Meryl. (Although this was mentioned, it was not made clear by the show and it would have been very helpful if it had been at the start.)

Also, the folks at Pure run two large Derek fan sites with news and info on his doings. Unfortunately, they had not warned their readers of the implications of his work with Meryl and Charlie before the show or of Derek and Meryl's conflicting schedules.( Maybe they didn't understand the first but clearly could see the second would make the pairing too hard on Derek to consider.
So when the votes were counted  and Pure posted their predicted pairs, their readers expectations about next week were set and celebrated. Then Pure posted a leak about the votes being "for naught" and their  readers were severely distressed to learn from the site that inside information had revealed that their votes were thrown out by the producers of the show and a totally new set of pairings had been hand picked by the show instead of honoring viewer votes. The outrage has been intense. Word was that the pairs were not at all what they had been told had resulted from their votes.

Immediately people from other Derek fan groups and other statisticians apparently tried various ways to inform the folks at Pure that their vote count method contained an error and taught them how they could correctly operate the counter and how to run tests for themselves to show how their vote was erroneously creating bad counts and why. People on other sites and twitter tried the test and found how Pure's pairs were counting wrong. The techs from the other fan sites were correct. I gathered from tweets and posts that the various tech folks and fan groups attempts to help were unsuccessful and unappreciated.(Some actually were lambasted with efforts to publicly humiliate the techs.)

Unfortunately, Pure never corrected their vote tally, nor did they inform their readers that the error had occurred there.  Rather than admit they had made the same mistake in both of their tallies and correct their readers expectations and assuage their powerfully hurt and heavily vocalized feelings, they defended their tally and they blocked all attempts to ask questions or to share the true data on their site or to explain the misunderstanding about how to use the vote counter.  Any effort to post any help for the distress and outrage that the readers were expressing about having all their votes "thrown away" by the show were blocked or shouted down by the people running the site.

I saw several posters who simply stated their pairs or their lack of surprise at the pairs now spoiled to be correct. But haven't seen any official talk of an error. The only poster I have noticed of the accurate count and expected pairs that explained the quotes problem that got through and posted was early in the week, late on an old predictions thread and was roundly assailed by the site runner and dismissed  as totally false...even though it listed exactly the pairings that Pure finally "leaked" later on as their inside scoop on the expected pairings for Monday. It is not a scoop; it is the actual vote, with Derek not able to pair Meryl.

Still, it looks like most of the readers don't know about the error that created the pair list Pure had run all week as their version of the " true" result of the vote, before "producers threw out the vote and made up the pairs they wanted instead." Some write of sadly giving up on a show they have dearly loved, now that they have been so "betrayed". Some want investigations by federal regulators. All manner of speculation about why the show would trash the vote has been encouraged and applauded by the site moderators all week.  People are being inflamed to rage, ask about legal recourse, and damning the show to cancellation - when the site could have prepared the fans with appropriate expectations, calmed them, and informed them of Pure's vote counting error by early week, when the error was first pointed out to them. Such behavior is an assault against all people who love the show - viewers deserve more than that, and so fans of Pure.

Some people will not be relieved to hear that their votes were, indeed, counted and that Derek had always been unable to partner Meryl. But a lot of fans of the show would have their outrage soothed and love of the show renewed by the truth about the counting error at Pure. Wish someone could tell them that it would help their readers and their brand if they would just be honest about their mistake and explain how they got it wrong.

  The site runners there have stopped mentioning the vote tally specifically today. The
promoted article that was to explain in "excruciating detail" how the vote was counted and the show had completely disregarded all their votes and rigged the show, didn't get written.

The latest theory in discussion is that the show  "trashed the vote to please the C brothers." 

Edited April 6, 2014 by Uncle Owdy

[Uke]

Uncle Owdy, I've been debating on whether to write on this or not. But since you have, I'll reply.

My group had also been keeping tabs on the counts during the week.  We kept all discussions on DM and didn't publicize our numbers, strategy, nothing. So you can accept this or ignore this as you see fit. 

On Sunday, we decided we were okay with how the votes were trending so we decided to just let it go. Our last snapshot of the counts on Sunday was:  Meryl/Derek over Meryl/Val by a slim margin, Nene/Maks over Nene/Derek by a slim margin, Danica/Mark, Amy/Tony, Candace/Val.

We could see that if Val/Maks fans were highly motivated (and I believe they were) to get Meryl/Val and for Maks not to get Nene,  they could have easily overcome the margin, changing the result to: Meryl/Val, Nene/Derek, Danica/Maks, Amy/Mark, Candace/Tony. Sure enough, that was the end result. Their efforts MAY have been aided by the Derek fans at Pure IF they thought they had a comfortable margin and eased up on their voting.

"Slim margin" of course is a relative term. To give some context, 1 person could easily manually tweet 1000 votes in 1 hour. (I was doing that much myself and I'm certainly not a fast typist.)  All you needed was to rotate the votes over a few twitter accounts to avoid the "hourly limit".  A dozen team members working in unison...that would be 12,000 votes in 1 hour.  Add to that, anyone with a twitter dashboard could set up timed tweets to run all day and all night. The shortest rate for timed tweets that I saw was  at the rate of 1 per minute. So you can see that a margin of 20k, 30k, 40k votes is easily overcome, IF your team is motivated. 

I am not a member of any DWTSMaksimFan group, nor TeamAmyDerek. I'm not the Candace fan and I'm not the gal who tried valiantly to explain her numbers to Pure and was "roundly assailed by the site runner".

 

So, that's where I agree with you. Now for where I'll respectfully disagree...

1.  The "voting was all for naught" tweet originated from Kristyn Burtt over at AfterBuzz. She is friends or friendly with the Pure site operators and likely got her numbers from them.  Kristyn has intimated that one star "knew" who her switched up pro would be but then got a different pro.  Kristyn has not elaborated on this and it is unknown how this star would have "known" before results were made official. This has led to (what I would call an assumption) that Meryl got the votes with Derek but since Derek is so busy with other projects, he would not have been able to go to Florida with her for a week.

It is my understanding over the years of following this show that the producers couldn't give a hoot about the pros outside projects or obligations. The pros are required to clear their schedules so as to be available to the star and travel with the star whenever, wherever the star requires.  If they made an allowance for Derek, they'd open themselves up to pressure from other pros to make allowances for them.   I'm very skeptical they'd throw out a voted pairing for his schedule.

As for Derek being ineligible to be paired with Meryl because he worked with her in training for the Olympics. From all I've read, he didn't choreograph anything, he just helped Meryl and Charlie "finesse" their moves and get the feel of ballroom. I doubt this would make their pairing ineligible. (Sheri trained with Val and/or Maks and that didn't make the Sheri/Val pairing ineligible.)

As far as creative oversight of Macy's Stars of Dance, they could have assigned it to someone else or scheduled rehearsals for when Derek returned to LA or before he left LA.  Also creative oversight implies to me that Derek's involvement is in giving advise, suggestions, etc. and not necessarily choreographing whatever they have planned. I don't know if his oversight could even have been handled over Skype.

2.  Amy was quite open in interviews that she wanted her switched pro to be Mark. I've heard (but didn't go look to see) that she tweeted her fans to vote for her with Mark. Derek in his blog mentioned Amy wanted Mark.  I'm not sure it's coincidence that everyone's results gave Amy to Mark. I think a lot of voters were just accommodating her wishes.

3.  Pure runs 2 sites, one is specifically and clearly a Derek fan site. The other purports to be for and about all of DWTS but they've so antagonized fans of so many other pros, it's a defacto secondary Derek fan site.  But it's their blog. They can say and do whatever they want. Members can go with the flow or leave (or get kicked out). I have my own theories on why they do what they do but, well, I'll just leave it at that. (I've never joined either of the Pure sites and therefore have never posted on their sites.)

Edited April 6, 2014 by Uke

[Sparky]

It's absolutely correct that Pure was offered the information to correct their false findings. They not only rejected it but attacked the folks trying to help them. They'd rather incite their readers to rage than to admit they made an error. I wasn't surprised by their actions as they've been doing this sort of thing for years. They are Derek's fan site masquerading as a DWTS site. No dissenting opinions are allowed. If you're not in the cult of Derek they don't care what you think. That they are now affiliated with Afterbuzz makes that program just as biased and untrustworthy. I honestly don't see how anyone can read Pure and find it anything other than a site designed to trash anyone who might get in the way of Derek being handed yet another victory.

And yes, Maks did it. Because whatever it is that they are seething over today, or tomorrow, or whenever, it was Maks that caused it. Because Maks!

That Derek not only doesn't disavow them and their craziness but speaks to them and clearly knows that they are attacking his coworkers is reprehensible. He's got an effective racket going with Pure. They do his dirty work for him while he hides behind his nice guy persona. We see you, Derek.

I hope this latest meltdown backfires on them and they are revealed to have manipulated their readers far more than DWTS manipulated the switch votes. For years of spreading misinformation and nastiness, they deserve to be dragged out into the light.

[Uncle Owdy]

Thank you, Sparky, for your splendid, exuberant response. Think we are singing in the same choir as I was nodding enthusiastically as I read the thoughts you shared and grateful to share in your observations. I was being more restrained than I actually felt and enjoyed getting quite carried away on your tune!

Thank you, Uke, for your excellent, thoughtful response. I am so happy that you ended your debate with the decision to share your thoughts and we benefit from your effort and generosity. Have read your comments for quite a while and have always been interested in  your observations and the time you take to share them, especially for lurkers like I have been till now. I am honored that you were the first comment on my first post on a DWTS board.

I agree with every word in # 3 about the two sites and we could probably agree with a lot  that we didn't say on that.

I also agree with what you said on # 2 about Mark and Amy and people wanting to see them together. Personally, I would like to see her dance with any and all of the other pros. I mainly want her to dance with people who would respect that she flies down mountains with her legs and feet and maintains a very active life with them. She can do a whole lot of dancing with them, too, if her partner allows her to move across the floor and stand on them.Who cares if her toes point?  I found the efforts to have made for her some feet that pointed toes, but could not be walked on without his support, disrespectful and creepy. If she had on her feet that flexed she could have carried herself.

Can't speak for her, of course, and don't know Amy, but I am very impressed with her! And I find the focus and treatment of her disability by Derek and the show a huge diss of all the ability that she has worked so hard to create for herself. Let her dance! She can. And please stop carrying her and acting like all you see are her prosthetic legs.

Oops. Sorry for the burst of pent up rant. So, yes, I think a lot of people voted for Amy and Mark.  The coincidence, for me, was that the properly counted votes paired them and so did the erroneously counted votes. I very much look forward to her dance.

# 1 is a little more complicated.
About K Burrt - was unaware of her until this week and only have two bits of information on which to form an opinion. I first saw her name when she leaked to Pure that the vote was for naught and that she had seen the pairs list from the show but would not reveal it till later in the week.
I am aware that she received several tweets immediately after Pure shared her first announcement. And the tweets included references to Derek's unavailability to partner Meryl, and, seeing she had her info on the vote tallies from Pure, she was told of the error in the Pure vote counting technique.  She was also provided a list of the pairs from the counting techs and expected to look them over and decide if she was still of the opinion that the votes had been for naught or if the vote tally pairs from the techs of other sites, corrected for the no Derek effect, matched the list she had received from the show people. I think they wanted to help her to save face as well as to correct the warning she had issued about the vote before it was more widely spread and believed.  For their trouble, the techs saw the messages deleted and further ones barred.

I don't know if it was deliberate or accidental, coincidental or an outage. My understanding is the tweets were there briefly on her page and then gone. I assume it is possible that they matched the leak she had received and she didn't want the leaker to think she had broken confidentiality, or something and took them down.

I don't know why, how or if someone knew or thought they knew their switch partner ahead of time. I did hear Tom mention a couple of pairs as currently showing well in the vote, one with a sort of countering follow remark. But he mentioned, too, that the vote was not finished yet. You probably noticed in your analytics that there was a huge surge spike in the vote graph in the last 30 hours or so before the vote closed at 11:59 Monday  night as people remembered to vote and serious serial voters got really busy making the level of difference your example helpfully describes.
Is it possible that expected outcomes changed on Monday? Sure.Some did. Is it possible that the show said first one thing and then another? Absolutely. Even though we know the vote, do we really know who the pairs are. NO. They may not be connected.
But we do know that a bunch of people have shared their tallies and methods and produced identical numbers as their results, even though they came from different fan bases. And they have been tested and replicated by others.

  They weren't trying to make the results turn out a certain way or other. They were invested in the accuracy of the count when the posted/announced rules were applied. And they acted to correct Pure and Kristyn's mistaken impression of what the vote had tallied to be. The show was very irresponsible about not making everything very clear to the voters early on.
The techs cannot know what the show ultimately did with the votes. They did see that whatever was leaked to Kristyn was, according to her, different from what she had learned from Pure's tally and they wanted to help correct Kristyn and Pure's mistake before it spread and more people were upset and suffering the outrage.

What the ultimate pairings would be, they couldn't say. They could only report the vote when the counter was used correctly, read the posted rules, announcements and the schedules. A lot of Maks fans wanted Maks with NeNe and a lot of Derek fans ran a voting campaign to "stick"(in their terms) Maks with NeNe as you probably saw in your work. I wanted Maks with NeNe; thought they would be a hoot!  But, whatever their preferences, the techs were advocating for a good vote count, whatever the outcome, using methods that were repeatable reliably.

Yes, I heard a passing reference to Derek not being elligible to work with Meryl. There is a video being circulated with the time on the vid where the remark is made. And, yes, I think I have seen many instances when I felt Derek was given more freedom, control, showcasing, props, leeway and permission that other pros. So I wouldn't find giving him time in LA to have his movie premier and promotion and his work with the dance kids any unexpected exception.
I have no desire or ability to explain or endorse how the show makes decisions, nor do I find them consistent, fair, or helpful to the show a lot of the time. My experience is that the rules, choices, judging, packages, gimmicks and sudden requirements and alterations appear very inconsistent and sometimes inhumane. And I wonder why, sometimes, we keep watching and celebs and pros volunteer for the abuse, aside from it's a job.

I gathered from his comment to NeNe after her dance Monday about being ready for her little munchkin, that Derek was revealing on the show and before the vote was counted or finished, that he was paired with NeNe already and that he appeared to expect or know that she knew it when he decided to speak out on camera.  She may actually dance with Maks and I would be very happy, but I doubt it. Others may have known their pairs or thought they knew or had hints that turned out to be or not be true. Don't know any of that or what KB meant. I do see her seem like she is not being careful to check out facts this week and that is all I know about her.

Don't know why Pure didn't warn their readers that it would not be in Derek's career interests for him to be pulled out of LA this week and that they should, therefore, not power vote to see him with Meryl. They could have expected inside information from those in the know that he would miss out on too much and be worn out by all that travel and waiting. They could have orchestrated a push for another preferred pairing, for his sake, instead of indulging the desire to see the two together at his expense.  Unless, of course, they didn't do the homework and put it all together, or they didn't raise it because they knew the show would take good care of his needs. Or something else I haven't thought of.

At any rate, it is fun to work this out together with you and Sparky and I am really  glad you posted about all this.

[Buggin]

I was confused when Kristyn was tweeting that the pairs would be surprising. Not a single one was surprising to me. I didn't bother to follow much about the voting because TPTB always do what they want, but I made guesses on how things would shake up and almost all were correct (the only ones I switched were Peta and Cheryl but that was probably more wishful thinking on my part). A lot of the "inside scoop" that shows on Twitter is stuff that can easily be deduced from process of elimination or just plain paying attention since after 18 seasons of this show it's pretty predictable.

[pumpkinspice]

I've seen all the tweets and blog posts about the switch-up as well, and I was not shocked that Pure would not give any credence to results other than their own. Those women will NEVER admit they were wrong about anything. What started as a wonderful, insightful DWTS fan site has been ruined by the woman who also mainly runs the Derek site. It has been her influence that has made the readers and other mods at Pure become the way they are-and she is respected for it there! Many fans of other pros have been run off through the years, myself included. Some of their most loyal posters from the beginning don't dare post there anymore, because they will be publicly humiliated and degraded if they post anything that disagrees with the mods or something Derek does. I'm just glad that site is finally being seen for what they really are-pathetic bullies.

[MickeyMouse]

 

That Derek not only doesn't disavow them and their craziness but speaks to them and clearly knows that they are attacking his coworkers is reprehensible. He's got an effective racket going with Pure. They do his dirty work for him while he hides behind his nice guy persona. We see you, Derek.

How do you know he's in contact with them directly?

This is where I disagree. Even if he does know of the site how is he responsible for what they say and post on their websites? That's like saying Maks or Tristian is responsible for all their fans who tweet and leave hate comments to other pros too. Even if some fans listen, it isn't going to stop all the hate. I guess what I'm trying to say is no pro should have to be responsible for someone else's mistakes and hate on the internet of all places. It's a no win situation. 

However, I do agree with all that is said about the Pure site though. You can't even give an opinion on it without being attacked for it if they think it's anything against Derek. As far as voting, I personally don't know anything about that but I wouldn't put it past them. They need to realize that they are turning an enjoyable show and its pros into a battle of the fans. :(

[Sparky]

How do you know he's in contact with them directly?

(

I know Derek's in contact with them because the Pure mods boast about their conversations with him.

It's one thing to have fans who send hateful tweets. No one can control that. It's quite another to have a site dedicated to tearing down the reputations of the pros and celebrities on DWTS. Even if Derek wasn't in contact with Pure, at least he could warn people that he doesn't condone their hateful actions. He hasn't done anything to let his fans know to stay away from the site. Why? Because they help him. Pure fans are all over social media spreading lies that are generated on Pure and will benefit Derek. They are an army of organized negativity.

Shame on Derek for being involved with them.

[Uke]

How do you know he's in contact with them directly?

This is where I disagree. Even if he does know of the site how is he responsible for what they say and post on their websites? That's like saying Maks or Tristian is responsible for all their fans who tweet and leave hate comments to other pros too. Even if some fans listen, it isn't going to stop all the hate. I guess what I'm trying to say is no pro should have to be responsible for someone else's mistakes and hate on the internet of all places. It's a no win situation. 

However, I do agree with all that is said about the Pure site though. You can't even give an opinion on it without being attacked for it if they think it's anything against Derek. As far as voting, I personally don't know anything about that but I wouldn't put it past them. They need to realize that they are turning an enjoyable show and its pros into a battle of the fans. :(

Derek has on occasion instagramed pics with the Pure logo on them.  It is unknown if he himself got the pics or if his father or his manager got them for him.  I'm assuming they were off of the Derek designated fan site, not off the all-DWTS site.  I can't imagine Derek has the time or interest to read all their blogs and comments.  He's probably unaware of most of the vitriol...unless other pros have told him.  Those site operators do like to get into dustups with some of the pros.

[tarotx]

Why not just stay off that site? Hate's nasty so imo it's just best to stay away from it when possible. We aren't talking human rights here so why not just discuss your favorites and the good and bad about the show? I guess low to no board dragging is something I'm totally going to miss about TWOP :(

[Uke]

Uncle Owdy - About Amy, 

I don't think Derek's intent is to be disrespectful - not at all.
So far she hasn't done more than a few steps without holding on, being held on to, or being lifted.  I don't think it's so much about Derek not allowing her to move independently. He's all about creating shapes and pretty pictures.  The swimmers feet gave him the shapes and lines he wanted.  He also knows how this game is played. If he can use her legs to get sympathy votes or admiration votes, he'll do it.

I'm expecting Mark will actually get her moving - to some extent. I only became aware of Amy when she was announced for DWTS so all I know is what I've googled.  I believe she's got more balance and is more sure-footed than we've seen so far.  On the other hand, Mark won't want to mess up Derek's gameplan by showing Amy can do so much more than we've seen so far.  We'll see...

[Dots And Stripes]

No, Derek gets Nene. They will do a dance that winks in passing to whatever style they've been assigned,the judges will tongue-bath them and thus the legend of Derek-Hough-the-great-can-take-any-partner-and-manipulate-their-limbs-in-time-with-a-smoke-machine-bestestever-choreographer marches on...

I agree with this prediction. It's the same way Derek 'wins' the team dance every year since the winner is decided by three of his biggest cheerleaders. Now let's add Derek's sister to the mix right before the two start a dance tour and see what they have to say about how Derek deals with a challenge. They've given Tony a free pass so far with NeNe, so I won't be surprised if that trend continues now that she's spending a week with Derek. If we gauge Derek's 'success' by the immediate feedback of these judges, the boy will never fail at anything. 

As for the counting of the results, if the rumors are true I have no doubt that the results were counted. Yes, TPTB put out vague rules that allowed themselves some flexibility. That said, they seem to have gone with a reasonable manner of counting. The only variation I've seen is assigning Meryl to Val instead of Derek. TPTB had 3 choices there: 1) tell Meryl tough luck and force her to either stay in LA or not have a partner for the week 2) tell Derek tough luck and force him to stop choreographing Macy's and give up his movie promotion in LA to travel with Meryl or 3) Go to the second highest vote getter and pair Meryl with Val. While I would have loved for them to go with option 2, option 3 makes the most sense. I fully believe Derek's unusual schedule forced their hand hand here.

Finally, I'll be so disappointed if Maks can't dance the Argentine Tango with Meryl. I saw him dance the Argentine Tango on broadway and I would love, love, love to see Maks put that expertise to use with a capable partner like Meryl. This switch was a terrible idea.

[crowceilidh]

Thanks for the background on PUREDwts,  I was completely taken in by their reports believing that our tweeting wasn't counting. I'll enjoy keeping a weather eye on the aftermath.

re: generally reported switch-up predictions:

I, too, am very sad that Maks isn't getting the Argentine Tango with Meryl.  I am completely happy that Val has got Meryl.

[Uke]

Uncle Owdy - About Derek not dancing with Meryl,

There was a video of James talking about his having to dance with someone he'd "never danced with before in our lives". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMiP82rBFD4&feature=youtu.be  at the 1:00 mark.   I think James was just being dramatic or giving emphasis to having a new partner. I don't put any stock in it.  As for the munchkin comment, at 9pm or so whenever the comment was made, there were only 3 hours left and tptb could see where the votes were headed.  They may have also been aware of the "wouldn't it be hilarious" chatter.

(yes, I'm separating the topics. The paragraphs were getting a bit long)

Uncle Owdy - About Tom's mentions

I think Tom's mention of couples doing well in the vote was just a status update to remind everyone to tweet their votes.  I wasn't tracking vote counts on Monday but I'm pretty sure some teams continued the switch vote right to the deadline, knowing they could do their dance votes on Tuesday.

Nene turned out to be the spoiler in the vote tally. Some were voting for her to have a good match, the most logical being Maks. But many were using her as a weapon, as in wouldn't it be hilarious to see her with "little" Derek or "little" Mark. That's why she had an enormous number of votes.

[pumpkinspice]

Why not just stay off that site? Hate's nasty so imo it's just best to stay away from it when possible. We aren't talking human rights here so why not just discuss your favorites and the good and bad about the show? I guess low to no board dragging is something I'm totally going to miss about TWOP :(

I never go to their site. But I see things they post and comments they make RTd on twitter by people I follow, and I used to go to their site quite often, before I got cursed at by one of the mods for voicing my opinion and disagreeing with her, so I know exactly how they operate.

 

Plus, I think they are part of discussing what I don't like, because these people cause fan wars all the time. They're toxic, and I think lambasting the producers of DWTS about the switch up voting when they are the ones who got things wrong is one of the most amazingly ridiculous things I've ever seen. I've seen people say they actually wanted TMZ to report on the producers fixing results! I wonder if Conrad Green could sue them for slander?

[Dots And Stripes]

Nene turned out to be the spoiler in the vote tally. Some were voting for her to have a good match, the most logical being Maks. But many were using her as a weapon, as in wouldn't it be hilarious to see her with "little" Derek or "little" Mark. That's why she had an enormous number of votes.

 

Nene didn't work out to be much of a spoiler. According to the rules, celebrities were ranked based on their overall total of votes, then pros were assigned to the highest ranked stars first. Nene finished either 3rd or 4th (it wouldn't change the outcome either way). Maks was the top pro choice for both Nene and Danica. Danica ranked ahead of NeNe, therefore she received Maks. 

As a Maks fan, I wanted the partner with the most ability for Maks. He couldn't have Meryl, so Danica was the next best option. I like Candace more, but she's at least a foot shorter than Maks. I don't care about what's best for NeNe, I'm not a fan of hers. As for her needing Maks based on height, I'm not buying that. Val has had too tall ringers in back to back seasons. I read on twitter that NeNe is Zendaya's height. She's not so tall that she couldn't work with either Val or Derek. I highly doubt all of the votes I saw for NeNe and Maks were looking out for NeNe's best interest either. She's combative and the weakest dancer in the field. IMO, some people might have enjoyed them together, but others were looking for the wrong kind of fireworks. 

[Uke]

Uncle Owdy - About Kristyn,

I don't normally follow Kristyn except for a day or so after her "all for naught" tweet so I didn't see what she might have tweeted and deleted.  From what I've seen,  dance fans generally respect her since she seems careful to check her sources (with the caveat that, yes, she's a Derek fan and has a bias toward him - we all have our biases).  Where she got her list, who she got it from, is unknown. She does have to be careful not to burn her sources. I was dismayed to see how thrilled she seemed about other websites picking up the story and mentioning her and her tweet.  That's a real double-edged sword. She wants to garner attention for her site but she wouldn't want to get shut out from her DWTS contacts.  

Finally - About the Pure sites,
I don't care about their favoritisms. I don't care about them or what they think or how they think.  What does bother me is how they will bang the drum and their followers will pick up the chant. They'll keep repeating the same remarks, their followers will expand upon them and repeat and repeat until they all think what was said was true.  Then it starts spilling out onto twitter, facebook, comments on other website stories, etc.

[Uke]

Why not just stay off that site? Hate's nasty so imo it's just best to stay away from it when possible. We aren't talking human rights here so why not just discuss your favorites and the good and bad about the show? I guess low to no board dragging is something I'm totally going to miss about TWOP :(

I certainly don't want to have a general discussion about another site and I apologize if I'm "board dragging". In this instance, they are at the center of the vote count discussion and whether or not fans wasted a huge amount of time over the course of a week.

[Uncle Owdy]

Uncle Owdy - About Amy, 

I don't think Derek's intent is to be disrespectful - not at all.

So far she hasn't done more than a few steps without holding on, being held on to, or being lifted.  I don't think it's so much about Derek not allowing her to move independently. He's all about creating shapes and pretty pictures.  The swimmers feet gave him the shapes and lines he wanted.  He also knows how this game is played. If he can use her legs to get sympathy votes or admiration votes, he'll do it.

I'm expecting Mark will actually get her moving - to some extent. I only became aware of Amy when she was announced for DWTS so all I know is what I've googled.  I believe she's got more balance and is more sure-footed than we've seen so far.  On the other hand, Mark won't want to mess up Derek's gameplan by showing Amy can do so much more than we've seen so far.  We'll see...

 

Yes! Abour Mark.  And, Uke, I see what you mean about Derek not meaning to be disrespectful. And the business of creating shapes and such with his celebs using a lot of time in dances without their feet moving is something I really recognize in him. I have often felt that he does not "show respect" with partners' potential to learn to do the fundamentals of the actual ballroom and latin dances. And think he seems to value his shapes and moving the partner's body with his hands, more than trusting them to learn to move their feet in the steps the dance style showcases. There are a number of obvioius exceptions, of course, but I have often found myself talking to him through the TV screen with "Let her DANCE!"  As much as Kelly accomplished, I always thought she was able to do a lot more moving on her own using much more of the dance style requirements and, ultimate, being able to enjoy dancing those styles long after the show when Derek was not there to hold and move her body for her.

Since I clearly have a problem with that, not surprised it comes up with Amy, too. My take on disability includes the notion that people who have them and work hard to deal with, overcome or work around what they take from their lives, usually succeed where they are able to put the focus  on what they can do and not on what they can't. For a lot of people it is especially important to still be viewed as a whole, complete person and not the wheelchair, the cane, the missing limb, the prosthesis, scar, the illness or brain anomaly, etc. I see that the show really plays up injuries, old back,surgeries, family members' car wrecks and any other thing that means "drama". Think some is a difference in British sensibilities.and some just tasteless.

I am moved by what Amy has suffered and what she and her family have done to reclaim her life and greatly admire her accomplishments. I just flinch when the camera languishes on her prostheses and Derek doesn't choreograph her moving her feet much after the first week.

  I first noticed with Johanna that he was getting more heavily into a lot of upper body and doll movement as camoflage for lack of ability. I wish he would trust them more and teach them more and cover less.The less they start with the more he can teach them and the more growth we get to watch and celebrate

I once read him talk about what he did on the show to control how the dances were presented. He mentioned that he not only picked the music but oftem prepared the arrangement he wanted the band to use,; he designed the lighting, props, costumes, staging, fog machines and obscuring light flashes, and asked for extras. And then designed the camera shots he wanted used and listed them out for the director as instructions.for the director to follow during the dance. I understand he sees movie making as his future, but I really want him to teach his partners to dance some dances they can do without all that. (And before somebody jumps here that other pros do costumes and props and pose their partners....yes, I see that.) 

So, back to you, Uke. I appreciate what you said.   .I am trying to figure this quote capture system out so this may come out wrong.

Agree with your Mark comment, too. Amy has really moved most of the audience, hasn't she, and think everyone wants her switch pro to be good with her.

[radishcake]

Hey guys let's keep the posts re: other boards to minimum. This is general discussion but we've gone a bit off onto the board drama of another site. I know it was part of the discussion re: voting but lets move on to another topic. 

Thanks! 

[Uncle Owdy]

Uke, still not getting the quote thing down yet.

About the video with James = agree with your assessment on that. Not the vid snip I meant, though. It was very early in the promoing of the switch wheh hosts were nattering on about it.

Yes, about Derek mentioning on camera a reference to partnering with NeNe:  I realize you and your group stopped watching the vote count Sunday as you mentioned but there are probably count graphs still up showing that huge spike in number of votes being entered on Monday. Derek made his on camera remark at near 6pm Pacific. In the 6 hours remaining till 12 Pacific the surge continued.  But, regardless of any campaigns that may be peaking, it we clear that Derek was acting as though he was NeNe's partner. I think he will do a show stopper with her, as would Maks, and that it will be the entertaineing dance of the night, in liklihood. The mystery was whether Danica would poll momre total votes on all pros than NeNe and that would decide who got Maks and who got Derek. Danica polled highest Maks was her highest voted pro..  That may have been clear to Derek by 6 o;clock, like you said.  Think he will do a great dance with her and it will help her stay on the show longer.

Am bummed that Cheryl and Maks did not get the chance to do Argentine Tango twice this season since they both danced with Forever Tango and Cheryl studied with them in South America.  And now looks like he won't get to do one this season at all.

Radish Cake - thanks for the caution!  It is tridky to figure out how to express opinion/concern for the show and the fans and the dancers and pros when there is an event that impacts or could impact all, when that event involves a site and the site has blocked efforts to fix some of the problem, isn't it? But, if we are not going to imitate it, we have to be careful in discussing. I apologize for any loss of decorum. I so valued where PTV came from and the people who have worked so hard under very difficult circumstances to get it up and available to us. They surely had other issues to address with their time and creativity and I am very grateful to them and don't want to trash their work. So, thanks for reigning us in and maybe we can share our concerns  and try to repair some of the misinformation damage to all involved without trashing the people who won't.

Thanks, Radish Cake.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Uncle Owdy

[radishcake]

No worries! 

 

Radish Cake - thanks for the caution!

If you want to quote part of a post that you are replying to: 

highlight & copy what you want to quote, click on the " quote mark at the top of your reply window, then paste what you want to quote. If you then hit return you should have the quote at the top and your reply underneath. Let me know if you guys have questions! I'm always happy to help! 

[Uncle Owdy]

Yikes! This is soo not working. I tried to quote part of your comment, radishcake, and when I hit reply to quoted post, it said 2 quoted posts and posted none.

Do you hit first the reply button to get the reply page and then go highlight the post or vice versa?

Thanks. I should have learned all this before I started so would have been caught mid stream. On other attempts it kept quoting my own entire article already posted. I realize i got very long winded in the heady excitement of being a poster first time, but not really trying to quote my own self.:)

[radishcake]

Oh pish, you guys got hit just as fast as we did, No time! We'll just all learn how to do stuff together. :D

I hit the reply button first and then go highlight the part of the post you want to quote. I just highlight, ctrl + c, and then hit the reply button and ctrl + v after I click on the quote. Try that out and see if it works. 

Oh pish, you guys got hit just as fast as we did, No time! We'll just all learn how to do stuff together. :D

I hit the reply button first and then go highlight the part of the post you want to quote. I just highlight, ctrl + c, and then hit the reply button and ctrl + v after I click on the quote. Try that out and see if it works. 

Also if you want to reply to a smaller post you can just click on the quotes of the post you are replying to and then click on "reply to quoted post". 

[onthebrink03]

Yikes! This is soo not working. I tried to quote part of your comment, radishcake, and when I hit reply to quoted post, it said 2 quoted posts and posted none.

<snip>

 

 

Also if you want to reply to a smaller post you can just click on the quotes of the post you are replying to and then click on "reply to quoted post". 

You can also hit the "quotes" icon on all the posts you want to quote and delete whatever part of the quote is not important to your response.  I have done it with radishcake's and Uncle Owdy's last posts.  That seems to be a simple and easy way to do it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by onthebrink03

[radishcake]

Yep! @onthebrink03 thanks!

[Sparky]

Finally, I'll be so disappointed if Maks can't dance the Argentine Tango with Meryl. I saw him dance the Argentine Tango on broadway and I would love, love, love to see Maks put that expertise to use with a capable partner like Meryl. This switch was a terrible idea.

[Sparky]

Finally, I'll be so disappointed if Maks can't dance the Argentine Tango with Meryl. I saw him dance the Argentine Tango on broadway and I would love, love, love to see Maks put that expertise to use with a capable partner like Meryl. This switch was a terrible idea.

I was hugely disappointed to see that Meryl would be dancing the Argentine Tango with Val since Maks spent last summer dancing it on Broadway. The AT was the dance that I looked forward to seeing M&M perform the most. I've always loved Maks' ATs but after Forever Tango I expected an even richer and more seductive experience. What was DWTS thinking to assign it to Meryl's switch partner?!

I'm hoping there will be an upcoming twist that allows couples to redo the dance styles that were performed during switch week. What a missed opportunity if that doesn't happen!

[tarotx]

He can just turn their Ballroom Tango into an AT ;) A couple marks off from a judge or two will be the only one that really cares but the fans will go insane!

[Dots And Stripes]

He can just turn their Ballroom Tango into an AT ;) A couple marks off from a judge or two will be the only one that really cares but the fans will go insane!

Carrie Ann might not know the difference, but she should would spot the lifts. Will they even be assigned the standard Tango? Amy and NeNe both sound like they'll make it through 4 weeks without any standard ballroom dances. With the addition of salsa, AT, contemporary, swing, jazz and whatever weird things the producers dream up, the couples get to avoid a lot of dance styles. 

[TeeM]

Uncle Owdy,

Thank you so much for expressing my feelings about the dances Derek choreographs for his partners. You expressed my feelings much more eloquently than I have ever been able to. I agree 100% with your assessment, particularly when thinking about Kellie's season. In many of their dances (the Paso specifically comes to mind) I felt that he was dancing while she was posing dramatically behind his movements and it infuriated me because she was super talented and I wanted to see her dance, not see him dance around her. I think his strategy is incredibly successful and smart, particularly in seasons when he has partners who are not natural dance talents (like Amber and Ricki Lake) but it is very frustrating when he has someone who can do so much more. It will be interesting if Mark really gets Amy moving around the dance floor this week in Derek hasn't done yet. 

[Uncle Owdy]

TeeM, thank you.

Appreciate your eloquently presented comments.There are so many things we love about this show and so many difficulties to get past  trying to enjoy it, it is especially helpful to be able to compare notes and connect with each other about our observations and experience of it....

One of the great beneffits of having 18 seasons is it gives us all time to feel we are getting to be experts when it comes to what we like and what we don't and what we would like to change and see more of..  Maybe they should ask us. If not, we should all say it here and maybe an intern will see it and tell them.(Smile) Much rmore decorous talking about them knowing they are listening than about them when they are not.

Love reading the comments on this board.

[Rrrhumba]

Agree with the comments re: Mark maybe attempting to get Amy to dance under her own steam. Whether or not it comes off is a different story...

Derek fans like to spout that he's the best teacher on the show but how many of his celebs have gone on the BWAT shows or cruise ship tours and danced with other pros? Not that many and it seems to be because they're taught choreography rather than how to actually dance. I found it incredibly disrespectful in the all-star season that people were giving Derek all the credit for Shawn Johnson's ability, when it really was a testament to how well Mark had taught her in season 8. Derek fans claiming the choreo credit for him on the perfect scoring tango/paso fusion was particularly funny when you watch her season 8 paso - nearly all the paso steps in the fusion were lifted from her previous season with Mark. Even the dress color and styling were similar.

[StayClassySD]

I also feel that this why some people find Maks to be boring. (not his personality) but that he seems to focus on teaching the dance rather than putting a lot of flash 'n' trash. Now, has he done that before? Yes but I think when compared to Derek, Maks focuses more on teaching the actual dance rather than something that's called a cha cha or foxtrot or quickstep but really is just a bunch of flashy choreography to appease the audience.

[spanana]

I don't even really get why there is so much fan craziness over the vote anyway when it's been made clear that nobody is being eliminated this week and nobody is staying with their new partners.  I know fans didn't know that during part of the voting period, but once that was made clear I stopped caring once and for all.

Also for all of the hoopla about the pairings not being what people voted for, the male pro/female celeb pairings all made 100% sense to me based on how I saw fanbases voting.   I don't doubt that Derek won the Meryl vote, but his own schedule is to blame as to why he couldn't be paired with Meryl.  I don't think Derek even cares, so why his fans are so incensed I don't know.  When Derek blogged last week he posted part of his schedule for that day.  I believe it was Thursday.  In addition to Macys Stars of Dance, he was also doing press for his movie, a meeting with Julianne and other people about that dance tour thing they are doing and then some sort of book meeting?  Where did anybody think he was going to find the time to travel around with Meryl for the week?  Oh, and I think somewhere in there he spent some time helping Mark with Amy.  Val could travel and was the next highest vote getter.  No harm, no foul.

I also expect NeNe and Derek to get high praise tonight since they are the main couple working with a physical mismatch and it allows for Derek to be creative.  Plus she has jazz.  So again, why am I supposed to be incensed? 

A certain site was also spoilering how the varous couples were supposedly getting along this week and who was doing well/not doing well.  Not shocking that of course the pros they hate were all supposedly having difficulty with their new partners.  So huge grain of salt there as well.

Edited April 7, 2014 by spanana

[MickeyMouse]

I find all this fan against fan crap hilarious on the different sites.

I mean, as far as I can tell all the pros couldn't care less about all that he said she said crap. I wonder sometimes if they get a good laugh at all the hate and negativity toward other pros and themselves. I personally think all of them have a great respect for each other. I don't think all are besties but I do see them hanging out with each other on occasion. 

[ari333]

I love 'General Gabbery"  !  It reminds me of TWoP and I vote to keep it.   RIP TWoP. ::sniff::

I flove it too. I wish we had a Knoll here, but I don't know the legalities of that. Or we could have a Knoll and know it's a Knoll, but we can call it something different but still conspiracy-ish... for legal reasons if there are any.... Area 51 or some such.

I wish they'd post the name of the song in the corner of the screen that the couples dance to. Many times I have to go searching elsewhere for the name of the song. So far I'm liking the new band.

[spanana]

I don't doubt there are some genuine rivalries among the pros, especially since many of them grew up competing against each other.  So there are egos and there is pride, but it's to be expected on some level.  But I really doubt the real life situation is anywhere close to what the fans make it out to be.  Mark even said as much recently on twitter.   For instance, just last week I saw a picture of Val, Amy and Derek together at Derek's premiere.  As I don't think Val was forced there at gunpoint, there seems to be some sort of support there.  Or there were pics of Maks and Derek hanging at random NYC bars/clubs together during NYFW a couple of months ago.    

[crowceilidh]

I always wanted TWoP to have a boards on boards thread for each of my shows - then if people didn't want to be part of it, they could avoid it.  In the brief discussion we had about board happenings on this thread, I learned a lot more in one page's reading than I could glean for myself in the several years I have been reading the board in question.  

My board participation is an integral part of my enjoyment of the show and being unable to talk about it at all always felt unnecessarily constraining (I grant that the rule was made for a good reason, but as I wasn't around when the rule was made, I don't really understand the reasoning).