S12.E07: Something Against You

[Nobodysfan]

Oh, and I like how Nathan said what is the story there?

 

It is nice he wants to find out more about her.

 

Although it is a long story, he has time to listen to it. Nice. Selfless.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[Greysaddict]

On a sidenote,I think Shonda caught both actors off-guard, Pompeo herself said Henderson would be coming halfway through the season which 1206 is not,it was at ABC media event back in August,also Henderson said he was called in to shoot much much earlier than expected in the podcast with Beers. Shonda tricked them both not only viewers.

 

What do you mean that Shonda tricked Ellen and Martin Henderson?  I did listen to the podcast and heard him say they asked him to come earlier than he originally thought but I am not sure that anyone was "tricked" into anything.  Also, remember you may think "mid-season' is the literal half way point, but to the cast/crew midseason probably means episode 8-9 so he didn't come THAT much earlier.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Grey's Anatomy: The Force Awakens
Meredith decides to hit Penny with the soft bigotry of no responsibilities, Maggie has to explain white privilege to some basics, and Owen's PTSD is back, but mostly GO SEE STAR WARS PLEASE.

[Nobodysfan]

What do you mean that Shonda tricked Ellen and Martin Henderson?  I did listen to the podcast and heard him say they asked him to come earlier than he originally thought but I am not sure that anyone was "tricked" into anything.  Also, remember you may think "mid-season' is the literal half way point, but to the cast/crew midseason probably means episode 8-9 so he didn't come THAT much earlier.  

I am just saying he came earlier than was originally planned. That is all. I do not know why, but it is kind of tricky or seems tricky to me.

[John M]

I'm going to call it even though I am sure I am wrong, Riggs treated a person or persons responsible for attacking Owen's unit. Queue some medical ethics in war zones aggrandizing in a ripped from the headlines commentary on the US attacking a Doctors Without Borders hospital that was treating Taliban soldiers.

[John M]

does anyone have some advil?  I have a headache from the giant anvil dropped on my head with that elevator scene.  Also, did you know Meredith had 3 kids?

 

To that point, did Meredith have to act like a complete bitch because "she is friends with Owen" on an issue she knows absolutely nothing about? Did we already forget about Cristina and Owen? Owen doesn't exactly always have the clearest and most correct version of every story and Meredith should know that because of I dunno, Cristina and Owen's pregnancy, Owen wanting kids with Cristina, Owen cheating on Cristina, Cristina divorcing Owen, Owen's responsibility in the plane crash, etc, etc.

 

How about "Oh, sorry, I can't have drinks, I have 3 kids".

[Nobodysfan]

To that point, did Meredith have to act like a complete bitch because "she is friends with Owen" on an issue she knows absolutely nothing about? Did we already forget about Cristina and Owen? Owen doesn't exactly always have the clearest and most correct version of every story and Meredith should know that because of I dunno, Cristina and Owen's pregnancy, Owen wanting kids with Cristina, Owen cheating on Cristina, Cristina divorcing Owen, Owen's responsibility in the plane crash, etc, etc.

 

How about "Oh, sorry, I can't have drinks, I have 3 kids".

I think this is what she should have said or at least implied, instead of that line about being a friend with Owen.

[Gladrags]

So here's my takeaway:

 

Everyone is required to hate the new doc because Owen does.

Everyone is required to hate Penny because Meredith does.

But wait ... Stephanie doesn't hate Penny, because Jo hates Penny and Stephanie is anti-Jo.

 

These people are well-educated professionals. 

 

Right.

 

 I expect something with a bit better quality of thought than Day of our Lives in primetime.

Days is often way over the top, but it's been awhile since I've seen that kind of childish lack of logic on the show.

 

 

 I hope that we don't have to wait until later in the season to find out what the deal is between he and Owen.  

 

I care so little about Owen and his rage that I won't mind if it never comes up again.

Oh, good. More scenes of Owen eating a woman's face.

Ew! LOL

 

The Penny story is so meh.  It's too bad she's not played in a more sympathetic way because I really do feel like her making a medical mistake is an issue all the doctors have faced. 

 

And we've seen every one of them face it. Yet no one hates them for it, except for maybe a few patients' family members.

 

Oh, and I like how Nathan said what is the story there?

She had plenty of time to give the Cliff Notes version -- "The hospital was named after my dead sister" -- but she was too busy hating him because Owen told her to? Ugh.

[Chas411]

Good episode but I who on earth was that non DeLuca non Cross intern and why did he get more screentime then not only some regulars but even some recurring. Has he been in it before?

 

I kind of loved the elevator scene with Meredith and Riggs. It was the first time I saw Henderson as rugged and my fears of a Meredith/Alex gizziesque pairing went away. Karev seems like a child next to Riggs who is much more up Meredith's street if they were to eventually go there.

 

Owen reminded everyone to ask why he still exists on the show. What a fucking tantrum. Honestly why is he still on the show? His relationship with Amelia barely exists,McKidd overacts everything and the character ran his course YEARS ago. Honestly just make Amelia pregnant and ship them off somewhere. I really don't want to watch another PTSD storyline. None of us deserve that.

 

Jo I felt bad for her. I agree with everyones valids points that she has to speak up if she wants change to come for her. I do think that it's natural her insecurities are showing after repeatedly getting crapped on since the middle of last season. I don't think this is the character we were presented with but I do get why she's regressing instead of progressing. She has no family to support her - her boyfriend isn't interested, he fobs off her valid concern and has not once stuck up for her to his friends who treat her like an outsider and have no interest in her personally or professionally. Stephanie was her person - now they're fighting so she's left with nobody to talk to about how she's feeling. She had a great career moment today but Meredith/nobody didn't even acknowledge it. They never do. I haven't seen her have a good doctor moment since maybe season ten? I get that she's too passive and if she wants respect she needs to demand it but honestly, if I were in her environment where your boyfriend ignores you or wants you hang out with people who don't respect you in work or outside I think I'd have a hard time not letting it get to me either. This isn't just something that's only recently happened. It's happening since last year.

 

Also, Stephanie looking down her nose at Jo being pissed really bugged me. I get that she thinks she's so much better then Jo but we saw Jo do the work this episode. We saw her be a good doctor, figure out something nobody else could and still get dismissed. Stephanie has Amelia who seems to adore her (racism issue aside), Jo doesn't have that. It's easy for Stephanie to call out Jo and tell her she's operating circles around her etc when she has a mentor who basically wants to work with her only. I get that Stephanie is supposed to be the most fabulous surgical resident EVER but I do think Jo's points about being dismissed are valid also.

 

Meredith was more of a person to Owen in this episode then she's been to Alex since Cristina left.

 

Maggie is starting to really grate and I was NOT into the racism speech. Well I liked her point about not being the spokesperson for all black people but the speech was way over the top. She had a chip on her shoulder about Riggs from the minute he showed up and then suddenly it became about racism. I get that it's an issue and I did understand part of her speech but I really felt her issue with Riggs was more about her projecting many insecurities that may cross her mind when the patient wanted his opinion over hers (being black, a woman, so young) then it was about racism.

 

Penny continues to be the most lifeless dullard ever. I can't believe Callie's main storyline is to be her girlfriend. They put me to sleep. So boring... Just make it be over.

 

Alex's main scenes was with the sistaaaz - so forced. When did he become such a freaking girl.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Chas411

[Jpxfactor]

I'm soo tired of all the girl talk and relationships..would like to see more patient problems. And kill all the sex scenes. What r we 12

[Starscream]

To that point, did Meredith have to act like a complete bitch because "she is friends with Owen" on an issue she knows absolutely nothing about?

Meredith has to be that way for their sexual tension to evolve in future episodes.

[statsgirl]

I liked the writers talking about subtle racism with Maggie and Amelia neurotically thinking she may be coming off as racist. It's bad for people of color but it's not always that easy for others.

 

I liked Owen finally getting a storyline that doesn't involve his love life or screwing up as chief.  Although I had a hard time with the exaggeration of the mother jumping and killing the intern.

 

For the first time, I'm on Jo's side.  She was immature in not asserting herself around the patient but Penny was out of line taking the glory and Meredith shouldn't have pushed her aside.  I remember when brilliant ideas got praise and a chance to do the surgery, not stand in the corner.

 

I hate everything to do with Penny. Shut up, Callie.  And why hasn't anyone pointed out that it's super unethical for Meredith to be Penny's boss since she's got all that resentment towards her?  Ethics, it's not just for other people.

 

Bailey may be the Chief but it's poor management to hire someone to a service without having that head at the interview much less checking with her.  And she obviously didn't check out his credentials very well if she never noticed he was in Afghanistan at the same time Owen was.  At least the show is consistent in that the chief of surgery is incompetent.

 

And Shut Up Riggs.  He's so smary.   Why would he think that Maggie hired him when he'd never met her. And why didn't he introduce himself to everyone in the doctor's lounge.  "Where do you think I come from? Then you'd be wrong."  I can't stand the arrogance.

 

I didn't mind Henderson in Off The Map but here, I find him revolting.  I'm really not looking forward to the Riggs/Meredith "romance" coming up.

 

 

I was shocked by Amelia's lack of awareness the racism is still a real issue - are you freaking kidding me??? Maybe I'm just projecting, but you'd figure an educated woman would get that micro aggression is very real and very prevalent.

Amelia would be aware of overt racism like Ferguson but she wouldn't be aware of the subtle things Maggie was talking about.  As busy as she is, she wouldn't be reading the op ed comments or reading Ta-Nehisi Coates book, and unless she was with a POC who experienced it in her presence (e.g. not boarding yet), she wouldn't know it existed.

 

She was horrified at the idea that she could be racist,  You have to give her credit for wanting to make sure she isn't.

Edited November 13, 2015 by statsgirl

[Chas411]

 

I remember when brilliant ideas got praise and a chance to do the surgery, not stand in the corner.

Agreed - had the roles been reversed Callie would have barged straight into that OR with Webber or the Chief in tow to make sure Meredith got called out. Come to think of it had it been Stephanie or anyone else I think credit and reward would have been provided.

[statsgirl]

I hate the way this show plays favorites with the characters.

[Catherinewriter]

Absolutely loved the interaction between Arizona and Webber. But where exactly were they? It can't have been a lesbian bar or Webber would have evidenced some discomfort and wondered WTF? But they were great together. Show needs more of this kind interaction, even if scenes are short.

 

Do we know that Riggs was in Afghanistan with Owen and is responsible for Owen's PSTD? I must have missed something.

[Joana]

"Do we hate him?" Ugh. Yet another line after "Perfect Penny killed my husband" that makes Meredith Grey, a renowned surgeon and the MOTHER OF THREE KIDS!!!1 sound like a 12 year old. Her siding with Owen was completely ridiculous, but even worse than that, it wasn't at all believable. She basically had no interaction with him in like forever and now we're expected to believe that she's going to be his person because Cristina told her so and back him up no matter what. 

Yeah, it's just fake drama to keep them separated until the writers think it's the right time for her to move on with her love life. 

 

I felt for Jo. I didn't think she was unleashing on Penny and certainly not in the way Stephanie went all psycho on her a couple of episodes ago, I don't think she has anything against her, she was just genuinely sad that she couldn't take part in a surgery on a case she's been long involved and a patient she cares deeply about. I get that. But like the others have said, she needs to learn how to stand up for herself.

It's funny, here we have two people whose partners have problems at work and both have completely different yet completely useless reactions. Alex is being dismissive and doesn't really care, while Callie cares too much and acts way out of line. But hey, maturity is getting really hard to find on this show lately.

 

I loved the scene with Arizona and Richard at the bar, but she's been relegated to comic relief status for a while now and I don't like it. Give her something meaningful to do for a change, 

[TVAddict]

Having been the reasonably highly-placed woman in a male-dominated career field for decades, the scene in the hospital room where the patient continued to address her questions/comments to Riggs, even after Maggie identified herself as the head of cardio really resonated with me.  I walked in those shoes and dealt with that gender bias for far too long.  The fact that Shonda and the writers coupled gender bias and race bias couched in terms of white privilege in the same episode gave me a perspective that I'd not had before.  So on that note, Grey's, good going.  

 

I also liked Meredith harking back to her promise to Cristina about Owen.  Even though Owen's PTSD was one of my least favorite story lines, I like it when threads are woven from past to present and not thoughtlessly dropped like fictional children.

[beautifulGA]

the only thing worth digging in thus episode was arizona and Webber. but i think and judging by the promo pics that were added later that a chunk of their convo was cut. I don't understand, why score such a pricey, fancy location and not use it appropriately? I would have loved for arizona to be approached by few chicks and see how it plays out over the mean girl drama any day.

I liked Penny in this episode. It cements for me that the callie penny thing is just a dysfunctional mess. for god's sake who falls asleep during sex?? so glad she took a stand for herself in front of meredith essentially making callie the bad guy in this whole scenario. that's how you treat your girlfriend right?

I hope Jackson doesn't go all douche bag on April after a night of sex and dumps the 'D' word. But I can see it happening. it will be like how callie dumped arizona after cashing out one nice lay.

I fell asleep during the whole Maggie Nathan scene. I just realized later that i am not invested in these characters enough for them to have solo story lines.

The racism thing imho was handled better than Scandal's 'black lives mattter' centeric episode.

They are going for Meredith Nathan for sure but I think it will be slow burn. They will first use Owen to make Nathan's character worth pitying.

Ben and Bailey are snooze fest. I am so done with Alex acting like one of the girls. they just replaced callie in that group which i think was something Callie deserved to happen to her. she can say she's on meredith's side all she wants but her action proves that she's here to play Penny's side kick.

Last note: Samantha sloyan was so awful acting wise in that outburst towards Meredith scene. It was basically overkill. And if an actress can't create chemistry with SARA HOLY RAMIREZ of all people than you know it gotta mean something.

[Mellsy]

So...what happened to the little boy from last week? Riggs stays and he gets shipped back to Jordan?!

[Readalot]

I was shocked by Amelia's lack of awareness the racism is still a real issue - are you freaking kidding me??? Maybe I'm just projecting, but you'd figure an educated woman would get that micro aggression is very real and very prevalent. I think it's such an important issue that I wish the Maggie-Amelia scene at the end would've been written better. The language did come across too much like a PSA and not a natural conversation that these two would have. And that will make people dismiss it, which is a shame.

I freakin' loved Meredith and Owen. Mer deciding to hate Riggs because Cristina asked her to keep Owen from going dark and twisty was such an old school Meredith move that I could hardly stand it. I practically cheered.

The Penny story is so meh. It's too bad she's not played in a more sympathetic way because I really do feel like her making a medical mistake is an issue all the doctors have faced. And it is interesting to see the issue from both the family's and the doctor's POV as the same time, but she feels so one-dimensional to me that I just don't care.

I actually like the idea that Japril would fall back into bed with each other because it very much harkens back to their beginning. They have strong chemistry so that direction works for me. But I'm sooooo annoyed we didn't get to see the scene where that happened. I get they were going for the shocking ending, but it would've been just as shocking to see them talking, the chemistry taking over and then ending the episode with them starting to rip each other's clothes off.

. Yes! I would of loved that ending, what we got was way too abrupt. I really want them to work it out. They are the only couple I care about nowadays.

I don't watch to watch it again because everyone was making me mad, but during the scene when Stephanie and Penny were in the locker room, did it sound like Penny had an accent?

[izabella]

So...what happened to the little boy from last week? Riggs stays and he gets shipped back to Jordan?!

 

 

I was wondering about that, too.  His family was killed, and he was from a place where they take young boys his age and force them to become soldiers, according to the show.  I'd have expected Nathan to stop by his room if he were still in the hospital. 

[Artymouse]

Oh my gosh, i hate the Penny character so much! I hate her so much that I was hating Callie by association (and because Callie was way overstepping by talking to Meredith about her). I think the actress isn't helping matters any. Is it just me, or does Sloyan look like she's trying to keep her face as immobile and impassive as humanly possible? This was one of my least favorite episodes so far this season, much of it because Penny makes me want to hurl.

But I didn't really connect with any of the storylines. Bailey just seems to be losing her edge (brains too) since becoming chief. Does she really think it's OK to keep hiring people without at least mentioning it to the department heads who will be working with the new person?

Maggie was good in that last scene with Amelia; thought-provoking. But Amelia just seemed willfully clueless. The insights from Maggie were really interesting. Despite what Amelia said, I think most intelligent white people understand that racism still exists and that it doesn't always wear a white hood or plant a burning cross. But the subtler forms aren't as easy to recognize in ourselves (speaking as a white person), so I liked hearing what Maggie said. Food for thought, and despite my dislike of Amelia, the best scene of the episode, IMO.

[izabella]

But I didn't really connect with any of the storylines. Bailey just seems to be losing her edge (brains too) since becoming chief. Does she really think it's OK to keep hiring people without at least mentioning it to the department heads who will be working with the new person?

 

And without introducing him to anyone, or giving him any kind of orientation.  Highly unprofessional, Bailey.  And she's not that stupid. Is the show saying that her inability to have sex because Jackson was on the couch is what caused her to be that stupid? 

[TVForever]

I enjoyed some parts of this episode, but ITA with the many here who are already tired of the Penny-Meredith storyline. I am HOPING that by finally teaching her properly, and with Stephanie asking her for drinks, the majority of the BS is over, and we can move on...

 

To the Hunt/Riggs mystery? Maybe? I am curious, but I would like the mystery to be revealed at next week's winter finale. That's all the patience I have for the story...

 

I am not sure where I want the April/Jackson storyline to go - but where it has gone makes total sense. It is highly likely that a separating couple will end up in bed together as they are trying to navigate the tricky space they are in. And by the looks on their faces, they seem to recognize the mistake they made. I hope.

 

Finally, I also applaud the racism/white privilege dialogue. Yes, that definitely felt like "Maggie was Shonda", but regardless, it was both well acted, and the message was clearly presented.  When I saw Maggie and Riggs with that patient, I IMMEDIATELY felt what Maggie explained later - the idea that the patient was looking to Riggs not just because he's male, but because he's white.  AND I buy Amelia's disbelief that it happens, because that is what it means to have white privilege. Plus, they are in a very diverse hospital, with people of color in the powerful positions. So to her, that means racism isn't an issue at that hospital. So I love the way both Stephanie and Maggie speak with her about it. Well done. 

 

        I hate to admit it, but I immediately got that vibe too with the patient looking to Riggs to confirm seemingly everything Maggie said. I dismissed it at first because this show doesn't really "go there", but after the patient did this a few more times I thought, "Wait, what is happening here?"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hope Jackson doesn't go all douche bag on April after a night of sex and dumps the 'D' word. But I can see it happening. it will be like how callie dumped arizona after cashing out one nice lay.

Having sex with someone doesn't erase the underlying problems in a relationship and it doesn't mean you have to stay married. I hope Jackson still divorces April. Having a good sexual connection isn't a good enough reason to stay together.

[Lillybee]

I thought that Maggie had a right to be annoyed with Riggs because he couldn't tell the difference between her and Baily. Are we going back to the troupe that all A.A.s  look alike?

[SevenStars]

I thought that Maggie had a right to be annoyed with Riggs because he couldn't tell the difference between her and Baily. Are we going back to the troupe that all A.A.s look alike?

I don't think that's what happened. I think he assumed Maggie hired him because he thought Bailey would have giving Maggie a chance to be part of his hiring process.

[marceline]

I found the Webber/Robbins stuff a nice juxtaposition to the bias story. These two people are completely different. When I think about what the usual media narrative is around older black man/younger white woman is it's usually some version of "To Kill a Mockingbird" or the Magical Negro trope. There was something sweet about the way these two related on a very basic human level. I love the fact that Arizona had no idea how hardcore we trivia nuts can be. I also like how Webber was so into his trivia prep that he didn't seem to notice he was at a lesbian bar. His switch to wingman was adorable as was Arizona's face when she realized what he was doing. 

 

On a completely different topic, you'd think that after all these years I'd get over my discomfort at watching these doctors blithely discuss relationship issues or personnel matters over a patient on the table. Not just because I think they should be focusing on the surgery but because people on the table can often hear what's going on around them and they don't deserve to be subjected to this inane bullshit.

 

My friend is black and successful and she was never told that they weren't boarding coach yet when she was first class (as Maggie said) I mean come on. 

 

As someone who IS that black friend to a lot of people, allow me to suggest that the fact you are so comfortable testifying about what SHE has or hasn't experienced is part of the problem.

Edited November 14, 2015 by marceline

[Chicken Wing]

I most certainly will not speak for all of us, but I am not often inclined to share the details or my opinions of any subtle acts of microaggression that I may experience (granted, it happens so, so rarely) with non-POC friends or acquaintances because getting into "that" talk with them sometimes makes them feel uncomfortable and/or defensive, even though it shouldn't because they didn't do anything and I know they didn't do anything because I know them. But when they hear about a non-POC being unconsciously racist and not even noticing, it makes them afraid that they might have fallen into some of the same subtle behaviors and not realized it either. And the last thing I want to do, really, is springboard into a conversation about how the majority of people probably don't do that (I know they don't) or maybe I was mistaken (I know I might have been), or, heaven forbid, they certainly don't do that (maybe they have, maybe they haven't, but not to me and I don't care). But although we don't talk about it, I think they, unlike Amelia, are aware enough of what goes on in the world to know that it's still a thing that probably happens to me from time to time, even if I never bring it up, because it's just the unspoken fact of the world. A fact that would probably make them second-guess themselves if brought up directly to them. I think that's why Amelia got so freaked out in this episode when she heard (for the first time, apparently!) that such things were still alive and well and happening right under her nose to her close POC friends. She couldn't help but wonder if she was guilty of doing it, if people think that's what she did with Stephanie. She was overreacting. No one thinks she's racist or has racist leanings, and no one really thinks that her thing with Jo and Stephanie had racist influences just because Stephanie is black and she and Jo are white. Like Stephanie said to her later, the possibility crossed her mind but only because to us, it's always a possibility, a tiny kernel of an idea that always lurks at the back of our minds. But 99% of the time it's not a serious thought.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Chicken Wing

[Deanie87]

I hate everything to do with Penny. Shut up, Callie.  And why hasn't anyone pointed out that it's super unethical for Meredith to be Penny's boss since she's got all that resentment towards her?  Ethics, it's not just for other people.

 

 

 

Speaking of ethics only being for other people, I assume that Penny, Callie, Owen, Amelia, Maggie and DeLuca have already signed signed their Love Contracts? Owen especially, considering he suspended Alex for dating Jo.  Original Version Alex would have obnoxiously mentioned this by now.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Deanie87

[photo fox]

Owen and Amelia are equals as attendings, I think, now that he isn't chief anymore. So I don't think IIRC that they'd be bound by the rule. But the other two couples definitely would be.

[Deanie87]

Owen and Amelia are equals as attendings, I think, now that he isn't chief anymore. So I don't think IIRC that they'd be bound by the rule. But the other two couples definitely would be.

I think it's everyone because Jackson and April were both attending snit were saved by marriage.

[North]

Speaking of ethics only being for other people, I assume that Penny, Callie, Owen, Amelia, Maggie and DeLuca have already signed signed their Love Contracts? Owen especially, considering he suspended Alex for dating Jo. Original Version Alex would have obnoxiously mentioned this by now.

The Love Contract was one of season 10s many moments of stupidity.

I think they are hoping the general audience forgot about it.

[Deanie87]

Yes, it was terrible, but there has always been a double standard when it comes to Alex's behavior, so I will holding on to it bitterly forever LOL!

[Shellie]

And without introducing him to anyone, or giving him any kind of orientation.  Highly unprofessional, Bailey.  And she's not that stupid. Is the show saying that her inability to have sex because Jackson was on the couch is what caused her to be that stupid? 

 

I think her inability to have sex because Jackson was on the couch was stupid.  Who cares?  Is the master bedroom right off the living room?  Does their bed squeak really bad?  Is she required to make a ton of racket?  They can't do it quietly now and then while they have a guest on the couch?  I also can't get past the idea that with her salary and Ben's "buckets of money" that they don't even have a guest room, or maybe a home office that doubles as a guest room, or something.  I didn't like the way Ben finally told Jackson he had to leave and sounded half-hysterical because he hadn't been able to have sex in weeks or whatever.  

[Gpp]

I just want to say one thing( maybe more :) ). Ok, they mention Mer's kids. But what about Tuck, Baley's son? How long has it been? Miranda was bothered because she couldn't have sex with her husband since Jackson was in the other room. But what about his son?

I really think they should have stopped with s10. Yes, the show is still enjoyable but this is not the show we fell in love with 10 years ago. That's not the journey we signed for. We will never get a satisfying ending because the past has been erased. Even Derek's death was less powerful compared to season 6 finale. Do you know why? Because there is nothing "old" left. Yes, Derek died. That should have followed with scenes between Mer-Cristina. 

We have little connection with this new set of characters, so why should we empathise with them since the journey has started many years ago.

To me the real Grey's ended with S5. The show was about 5 interns navigating life. That was the focus. That was what made Grey's Anatomy the best show on air.

Sorry for the rant

[Margherita Erdman]

I guess it wasn't really a 'turn', but Cross finding Owen in the on-call room in full-out rage mode / PTSD really surprised me. We haven't seen Owen like that in a long time, so while I thought maybe this would be some trivial issue with Riggs, I'm actually interested now. I really wonder what the hell happened, and I hope it's not a let-down.

I don't think I've ever posted in this forum, but I have been moved out of lurkdom just to post the exact opposite opinion. I can't stand ragey, angsty, self-righteous, explosive, but don't expect any kind of explanation Owen Hunt. It's unprofessional, unattractive, and, because he is such an imposing and strong physical presence, and seems so out of control, actually pretty threatening. IRL he'd be removed from a workplace to protect himself and his co-workers and minimize hospital liability (not that these things have ever factored into GA reality, but still)

I hope whatever this is evaporates quickly and in a minimal amount of screen time.

I find Owen a barely tolerable character most of the time anyway (at his best when his storylines have tracked closely with with Cristina and Kepner, IMO, minus all the multiple Cristina breakup angsty arcs). To me, this is when he is at his least appealing, and he makes the show almost unwatchable.

Also, did you know Meredith had 3 kids? Maybe if she mentions them enough times they will magically appear? /sarcasm

Playing armchair shrink for a moment—Shonda is currently on a book tour promoting her memoir ("A Year of Yes" or something like that)—and every interview I've seen or read, she mentions her 3 kids ("you know, I have three kids!") as well as how little time she has to spend with them (so she really makes it count!) and how much she relies on paid caregivers and how grateful she is for that help and how she considers all of that a feminist accomplishment.

Now I will defend to the end the rights and choices of working mothers (and fathers), the need for more & better & affordable child care options in this country, and workplace support for family life in general, but Shonda's spiel seems to me like a weird mishmash of projection, deflection, and wishful thinking, and I wonder how much of that comes out in Meredith's three perfect, happy, but invisible children who apparently never interfere in her work or social obligations. Nannies, babysitters, and daycare—also invisible.

It's too bad, really, if you think about it, a missed opportunity to explore how even wealthy, privileged women have to struggle to juggle career & family—just as white privilege & microaggression are explored in this episode.

I'm soo tired of all the girl talk and relationships..would like to see more patient problems. And kill all the sex scenes. What r we 12

How long have you been watching this show? And are you sure it is this show? We are going on 12 seasons of girl talk & sex scenes

Edited November 15, 2015 by Margherita Erdman

[pennben]

I really think they should have stopped with s10. Yes, the show is still enjoyable but this is not the show we fell in love with 10 years ago. That's not the journey we signed for. We will never get a satisfying ending because the past has been erased. Even Derek's death was less powerful compared to season 6 finale. Do you know why? Because there is nothing "old" left. Yes, Derek died. That should have followed with scenes between Mer-Cristina.

 

I'm still enjoying the show, in particular, I think the quality is much better than last year. I signed on to a watch a show that I really liked, that's my only journey expectation for the show.  When I don't like it anymore, I'll jump off.  I know many have along the way and that's cool, we all don't watch for the same reasons.

 

As to whether I get a satisfying ending or not, I don't know as we haven't seen it yet.

Edited November 15, 2015 by pennben

[Nobodysfan]

 

I don't think I've ever posted in this forum, but I have been moved out of lurkdom just to post the exact opposite opinion. I can't stand ragey, angsty, self-righteous, explosive, but don't expect any kind of explanation Owen Hunt. It's unprofessional, unattractive, and, because he is such an imposing and strong physical presence, and seems so out of control, actually pretty threatening. IRL he'd be removed from a workplace to protect himself and his co-workers and minimize hospital liability (not that these things have ever factored into GA reality, but still)

I hope whatever this is evaporates quickly and in a minimal amount of screen time.

I find Owen a barely tolerable character most of the time anyway (at his best when his storylines have tracked closely with with Cristina and Kepner, IMO, minus all the multiple Cristina breakup angsty arcs). To me, this is when he is at his least appealing, and he makes the show almost unwatchable.

Playing armchair shrink for a moment—Shonda is currently on a book tour promoting her memoir ("A Year of Yes" or something like that)—and every interview I've seen or read, she mentions her 3 kids ("you know, I have three kids!") as well as how little time she has to spend with them (so she really makes it count!) and how much she relies on paid caregivers and how grateful she is for that help and how she considers all of that a feminist accomplishment.

Now I will defend to the end the rights and choices of working mothers (and fathers), the need for more & better & affordable child care options in this country, and workplace support for family life in general, but Shonda's spiel seems to me like a weird mishmash of projection, deflection, and wishful thinking, and I wonder how much of that comes out in Meredith's three perfect, happy, but invisible children who apparently never interfere in her work or social obligations. Nannies, babysitters, and daycare—also invisible.

It's too bad, really, if you think about it, a missed opportunity to explore how even wealthy, privileged women have to struggle to juggle career & family—just as white privilege & microaggression are explored in this episode.    

 

 

You can´t imagine how much I agree with you. 

 

What do you think of Nathan? Your first impression of him?Did you see some tiny sparks between him and Mer in the elevator?

Edited November 15, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[Nobodysfan]

I was wondering about that, too.  His family was killed, and he was from a place where they take young boys his age and force them to become soldiers, according to the show.  I'd have expected Nathan to stop by his room if he were still in the hospital. 

 

 

So...what happened to the little boy from last week? Riggs stays and he gets shipped back to Jordan?!

 

 

 

 

I was wondering that too,what happened to the boy, and how much time has passed  since the last episode.

 

Oddly enough, Martin has said in podcast he hoped or wished Nathan would adopt the boy.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[millahnna]

Amelia would be aware of overt racism like Ferguson but she wouldn't be aware of the subtle things Maggie was talking about.  As busy as she is, she wouldn't be reading the op ed comments or reading Ta-Nehisi Coates book, and unless she was with a POC who experienced it in her presence (e.g. not boarding yet), she wouldn't know it existed

Plus, as I recall, she comes from a very well to do family. I'm not saying all rich people are racist but they are definitely in a position where spotting your own privilege is way harder.

[TVForever]

To that point, did Meredith have to act like a complete bitch because "she is friends with Owen" on an issue she knows absolutely nothing about? Did we already forget about Cristina and Owen? Owen doesn't exactly always have the clearest and most correct version of every story and Meredith should know that because of I dunno, Cristina and Owen's pregnancy, Owen wanting kids with Cristina, Owen cheating on Cristina, Cristina divorcing Owen, Owen's responsibility in the plane crash, etc, etc.

 

How about "Oh, sorry, I can't have drinks, I have 3 kids".

        

        Unless you're determined to act like you're in high school, or better yet, middle school. Then " I can't be friends with you or even get to know you because my friend doesn't like you" fits perfectly.

[kingshearte]

Jackson not leaving Ben and Bailey's felt like a redo of George on Burke's couch.

Indeed. I kept hoping Bailey would take a cue from Cristina and just start wandering around naked. Although I suppose there's a kid around at least sometimes, which makes nudity a less appropriate strategy. But on days when Tuck is with his father? She should totally pull a Cristina.

 

But I do appreciate that Meredith remembered her promise to Cristina. When he said he didn't want to talk about it, I was hoping she would tell him that being someone's person doesn't require talking, just copious amounts of alcohol and dancing.

Hee! I would totally watch that!

 

Although the speech at the end was not subtle, I liked the way the racism/privilege thing was handled. I liked the fact that the seeds were sown several episodes ago, inspiring discussions of "was it or wasn't it?". And I liked that we were not just handed a definitive answer about whether it was or wasn't. We didn't get Amelia all of a sudden being all "OMG, I'm totally a racist!" It was more "Wait, what? Did I make that decision because of race? Am I that person? Have I done something like that before? And even if it wasn't that at all, will other people think it was that?" That really did strike me as a pretty honest sort of reaction, and I really did like that at no point did we actually get a definitive answer one way or the other. It may very well have been that, or it could have been entirely unrelated. The point is that it does happen and we need to be aware of the possibility. 

[Joana]

I thought it was a bit odd how everyone clearly went out of their way to avoid terms like "race", "racism", "black/white" and instead kept referring to it as "the thing". Since I'm not American (or living in a multiracial society) I almost missed it when Maggie and Amelia first started talking about it. I actually had to rewind the scene to check if that really is what it's about. Do people really talk like that?

[timimouse]

So I'm going to start my post on a slightly shallow note... I'm not the biggest fan of Maggie but I am SO LOVING her wardrobe! That dress she was wearing in the car park scene with Amelia was soooo cute! And I remember her little green romper a few episodes back too. I don't usually notice the wardrobe choices (for example, everyone was going on about Meredith's ponytail last episode and I had no clue what they were talking about) but I do notice Maggie's outfits, which says something!

On that note, I will start with Maggie. This is the first episode I actually liked her. No vagina monologues, no long boring rants and no forced or awkward interaction. We got to see her as the talented child prodigy she is and it was refreshing. And she brought across a very important message in a very real way. I may not be a black american, but I'm a black woman. That has lived on many different continents of this world. And while I don't like to be too quick to cry racism, I also am not one to deny it. And with everything happening in the world today, I appreciate them acknowledging and addressing it as it is a very important conversation to be had.

Meredith. LOVE MRS. McDREAMY! I never thought I would say this because in the early seasons, I wasn't her biggest fan (yep, I'm a Christina lover) but I cannot deny the growth that we have seen with her over the years and now I am hands down in her corner, every step of the way. I love how we still see that she's torn on the Penny issue. Because the reality is that she does hold her responsible for the death of her husband but is trying to rise above it. So yes, I think it's understandable that she wouldn't be treating her completely fairly. It may even be somewhat subconscious. That's human and normal. I think Callie is unprofessional and annoying because while she may not be entirely wrong, she went about it the wrong way for what I interpret as selfish reasons. If Penny wanted to deal with it, she could've talked to Meredith herself or go to Webber or Bailey. That's how people do things in the professional world. So kudos to her for setting Callie straight as it IS embarrassing to have your girlfriend fight your battles for you at work.

Also, I've noticed a lot of people giving Meredith flack for her friendships but I actually think she's a pretty decent friend. They say she's selfish but look back at her friendship with Christina. Although they referred to each other as their "person", Christina was never a big talker / sharer and so it appeared to be more about Meredith. As is appears that way with Alex now. But she's there for them when they really need her to be. Comments are being made at how she treats Jo, but was she friends with Burke? I'm pretty sure if Burke was her junior instead of her senior, she may have treated him the same way... which is pretty much how she treats EVERY intern / resident. I don't think her taking the procedure from Jo and giving it to Penny was a stab at Jo, but more of an opportunity to rise above the Penny drama and do her job. The timing just sucked for Jo.

Again, I've never been big on Owen. That started from the moment he choked my beloved Christina but I've learned to tolerate him. Thought we were past the PTSD thing so it was a little sad to see that triggered again. Hope that story doesn't take too long to come out. And once again, Meredith is there for her friend.

Jackson Jackson Jackson... *yum*. I really love looking at that man. I really do. Anyway, I digress. I get that sometimes people backslide. Every relationship. So while I understand it, I'm still disappointed in him for leading on April, because he's still adamant that he wants a divorce, whereas she feels like it's a sign that he's forgiving her. I do think they can work on their relationship but they need to take the time to do so and neither of them are really thinking about that. April wants to jump right back in and it's chasing him further and further away. 

I really like Stephanie and I do think she's a better surgeon than Jo. I agreed with her that Jo should step up and give her some competition and I'm glad that she did in this episode. I even felt that Stephanie was kinda proud of her at the end. That look on her face as Jo was having a go at Penny kinda made me feel like she understood. But they're still "in a fight" so she wouldn't just go running after her. This story must be going somewhere. It must be a build up to something.

I didn't realise that there was so much to say! I'm really enjoying this season, which I didn't expect to, without Derek. I still think there are too many characters to focus on however and they need to do some cleaning up. I vaguely remember Bailey, Ben, Amelia, Arizona, Alex and Webber being in this episode but just as fillers. Is that what they've come to? *meh* Maybe Jo will go nuts and bring and a gun into the hospital to get rid of some of these folks. I know that may sound bad but I don't mean it like it sounds! I swear! I just remember that's what they did when they had merged Seattle Grace with Mercy West and there were SO many characters that we couldn't keep straight. Turns out they were just waiting to get rid of them with a gunman.

[timimouse]

Yeah, I'm not going to hate someone just because someone tells me to or wnats me to.These people are adults. Use your words. If the person deserves the hate, I will give it to them.

 

While I don't think we should "hate" anyone, especially just because we're told too, I also understood it as Meredith giving Hunt a show of support in hopes that if he feels she's on his side, he'll eventually feel comfortable enough to talk to her about it. She understands the confusion that is Owen Hunt because she too has issues of her own and that's her way of being his friend. I also don't know why people feel that EVERYONE has to be friends?!?!?! Just because you work together? No. There's a hospital full of doctors. go be friends with one of them. They don't need to be friends right now. Right now, her loyalty is to Hunt. And I think that's OK. No, I'm in no way supporting any sort of bullying. But it's a big hospital. We can work together as professionals but it stays there.

 

I thought the racism thing was heavy handed. Constantly bringing it up is what makes it an issue (I'm not saying it isn't but not as much as the media would like you to think). My friend is black and successful and she was never told that they weren't boarding couch yet when she was first class (as Maggie said) I mean come on. And then she brought up the fabricated White privilege? Ugh. What did Amelia believing Jo have anything to do with Stephanie being black? Not everything is about race.

Besides that I felt the show was ok. I also don't think all this hate for Penny isn't solidified. I mean they act as if she purposely murdered him.

 

With all due respect, and this isn't targeted at you directly, but until you experience it, I cannot support the "get over it" attitude of white people. As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe in making EVERYTHING about race and I've even had disagreements with other persons of colour when I think they're making an issue out of a non-issue. But the reality is it is very present and very real and telling us to just get over it is not the answer

Edited November 15, 2015 by timimouse

[Chas411]

 

I also understood it as Meredith giving Hunt a show of support in hopes that if he feels she's on his side, he'll eventually feel comfortable enough to talk to her about it. She understands the confusion that is Owen Hunt because she too has issues of her own and that's her way of being his friend. I also don't know why people feel that EVERYONE has to be friends?!?!?!

Everybody doesn't have to be friends but Meredith was actively rude to him and has decided not to like him because she's "a friend of Owen Hunts". You don't have to be friends with everyone but you also don't have to act like a highschooler either.

 

Also, this sudden loyalty to Owen is hilarious. Alex literally follows her around the hospital and bends over backwards to ensure she's ok whereas I haven't see her offer him much loyalty or respect since the end of season ten.

[windsprints]

Nothing to see.

 

Not worth it since apparently people get upset if you don't like their little favorite fictional character. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by windsprints

[Deanie87]

But she's there for them when they really need her to be. Comments are being made at how she treats Jo, but was she friends with Burke? I'm pretty sure if Burke was her junior instead of her senior, she may have treated him the same way... which is pretty much how she treats EVERY intern / resident.

 

 

I think that Meredith could have been a better friend to Alex over the last couple of seasons (refusing to answer his calls when she disappeared, sabotaging his plans for the board seat and then not voting for him, etc.) but the problem now is Alex.  Meredith isn't demanding that Alex be there for her 24/7, he is offering and she isn't turning it down, but I also think that she is just not interested in looking past whatever her latest tragedy is.  And that was ok right after Derek died, but it has been awhile now, and she is coming off as selfish to me.  In fact, I think that she is almost a completely different character now than she was even 3 seasons ago.  She may have gotten stronger, but she is nowhere near as compassionate, in my opinion.  She was always self-centered, but most of the characters are.  Can you imagine the Meredith from seasons 1-5 completely ignoring the fact that Jackson and April lost a baby because she needed to go have sex?  I can't.

 

I also don't think that it is fair to compare how she treated Burke or Owen to how she treats Jo.  Both Burke and Owen hurt Christina in different ways and so its natural that she would look out for her friend.  But Jo has never been anything but supportive and loving to Alex, so there is no underlying reason why she should treat her so dismissively, even if she is only a resident.  If anything, she should understand how difficult that is, having done it herself.  But, like I said, the biggest problem is that Alex lets it all slide.  He is also a lot different than he used to be, at least in this respect.  He gave Meredith a hard time in the season 10 Thanksgiving episode, reminding her that she was once an intern sleeping with an attending, when Meredith sniffed about Jo coming with Alex to dinner.  That Alex seems foreign to me as well these days.  I had hoped that since they are the only two left of the original interns that their friendship would deepen and become more enjoyable.  But it has become weird and dysfunctional and I hope that whatever is going to happen with Alex and Jo will wake Alex up to this fact and the Mer/Alex friendship will regain its balance and become enjoyable again.

 

When they started this tedious Mer/Alex/Jo "triangle" at the beginning of last season, I really thought that some underlying reason would emerge as to why Meredith treated Jo so badly, but none ever came and I don't think it will now, which will only reflect badly on Meredith.  And on Alex if he doesn't fix it.

[kushka]

I thought it was a bit odd how everyone clearly went out of their way to avoid terms like "race", "racism", "black/white" and instead kept referring to it as "the thing". Since I'm not American (or living in a multiracial society) I almost missed it when Maggie and Amelia first started talking about it. I actually had to rewind the scene to check if that really is what it's about. Do people really talk like that?

 

I live in a very diverse lower middle class neighorhood on the edge of Atlanta and we don't talk like that, but I have the impression that upper-middle class white people do, it is a way of ignoring a problem exist - by making it rude to overately mention it.