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Wilowy

By Wilowy
in Criminal Minds

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Droogie
Droogie

I adored Hotch.  I think he was stoic and honorable and felt as though the weight of the world was on his shoulders.  And as Reid is my favorite character, it was always dear to me, how Hotch never le

Danielg342
Danielg342

They're called "normal clothes", and, yeah, I miss that too.

JMO
JMO

The discussion about the upcoming 'Derek', and the promo for that episode brought me back to our prior two agent kidnappings.  It seems like this current set of writers has become progressively more v

Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

7 hours ago, MMC said:

Please oh Please let is renewal mean that EM will be running it exclusively and will have nothing more to do with the mothership.

Can she actually do both at once? I mean, I obviously have no idea of how being a producer works, but I know that even Joss Whedon had to leave the helming of BTVS to someone else when he was putting Firefly together, so I'm not sure EM has enough creativity to handle one, much less both. Not to mention the energy.

MMC

MMC

42 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Can she actually do both at once? I mean, I obviously have no idea of how being a producer works, but I know that even Joss Whedon had to leave the helming of BTVS to someone else when he was putting Firefly together, so I'm not sure EM has enough creativity to handle one, much less both. Not to mention the energy.

I guess that would all depend on what question is being asked. Is EM capable of running both shows efficiently? The answer for me would be no way. However if the question were Would she be capable of running both shows into the ground?, then my answer would be that she is more than capable.

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Cobalt Stargazer

Cobalt Stargazer

12 hours ago, MMC said:

I guess that would all depend on what question is being asked. Is EM capable of running both shows efficiently? The answer for me would be no way. However if the question were Would she be capable of running both shows into the ground?, then my answer would be that she is more than capable.

Heh, I should have been more specific, MMC, since EM has pretty much proven she could fuck up cheese toast. I meant time-wise, since it seems like a fairly time-consuming thing to run one show, much less two. Unless EM's been delegating since she took up being the showrunner at Beyond Boredom, it just doesn't seem like she'd have the time for the Mothership as well. Unless she keeps a case of Red Bull in her office.

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MMC

MMC

(edited)
1 hour ago, normasm said:

CoStar, yeah, if they order a full 22 episodes of BB, it might be the point at which she chooses between the 2 shows, which might mean she choses the new baby. That would possibly mean that Breen is sole show runner of CM.

That is what I was thinking.Except I believe that once again it is going to be one of CBS' midseason shows that does not get a full season order. I would dearly love for it to be given a full season order of 22 episodes if that meant the original CM would finally be getting rid of EM as it's show runner. But seeing as BB was probably renewed by the skin of it's teeth I'd say the chances of it getting a full season order next season is slim at best.Still I am going to hope for that to indeed be the case.

Edited by MMC
Old Dog

Old Dog

There's a lot of talk around about how Season 12 is likely to be the last so thoughts are being aired as to how it should wrap up. I want to lay it out that if they go down the sparkly soapy ending with weddings and more babies and Rossi's damned back yard with fairy lights and unicorns and lost lovers returning - I will personally get on a plane and smack Erica Messer with my handbag.

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ReidFan

ReidFan

aw, but OlDoggy, I WANT Reid to get married and have a family ! there doesn't have to be unicorns and fairy lights though. doesn't even have to involve Rossi's back yard. I'd prefer, actually, if he went home to Vegas with his intended and came back married, such that it happened off screen (like the Morgan wedding) and then in the series finale, after the case is solved, I want him to quit the BAU and explain that they are expecting and he wants to move back out to Vegas. 

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Lebanna

Lebanna

I've always thought the very last shot of the show should be the plane banking and flying off into the night. 

I quite enjoy the gooey happy garden parties, but that's not what I watch the show for. I don't watch to see who's in a relationship with whom, or who has the prettiest babies. I just want them to leave us with the thought that these guys will keep on fighting the good fight against the dark out there, even when we don't see them anymore.

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normasm

normasm

Lebanna, I quite like your last shot theory. The job goes on. Whether all our faves are on that plane or not, I agree, that should be the last shot.

I kinda don't want there to be an arc for Spencer to find a mate anymore. For one reason, I think this crew would F it up. For another, I'd like to think the real Spencer is still out there, and can find a mate and can do other things, etc. If there were writers who could place all these wonderful characters on future track that made sense and felt right, I'd be happy to let them leave loose ends. That way, if they wanted to bring the show back on cable or wanted to make a movie, it would be easier.

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

Morgan was a dick, I'm rewatching episodes every week, and there are a few just in season 3 where his behabiour is awful, both as a person and as an agent. He's a hypocrite. 

I think if Reid was consitent he would stay, he is (or was) more like Hotch than any other character. Even if he understands and sympathizes with Morgan or anyone else, that doesn't mean their choice is going to make him happy too.

Sadly, Reid (MGG) has joined KV and JM's club and he plays more his own persona than Reid's character sometimes. it's a shame

Edited by smoker
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normasm

normasm

14 minutes ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

In the hypothetical situation in which Spender does get married and is expecting, do you think Spencer would quit the BAU like Morgan did? I sort of feel like he would, especially when he told Morgan that he understood why he was quitting. However, I also always thought that Spencer was more dedicated to his job, similar to the way Hotch is. 

Hmmm. I have always thought that Spencer would need to quit the BAU in order to find his life. I think the BAU is kind of like a spouse to him, more than anyone else except (canon!) Rossi. 

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Old Dog

Old Dog

9 hours ago, ReidFan said:

aw, but OlDoggy, I WANT Reid to get married and have a family ! there doesn't have to be unicorns and fairy lights though. doesn't even have to involve Rossi's back yard. I'd prefer, actually, if he went home to Vegas with his intended and came back married, such that it happened off screen (like the Morgan wedding) and then in the series finale, after the case is solved, I want him to quit the BAU and explain that they are expecting and he wants to move back out to Vegas. 

I'd also like a happy ending for Reid Reidfan but unless Erica Messer and her band of Disney writers have a transmogrification you just know they will make it as hokey as all get out! So I think I'd be happier to it end with Reid reaching his real potential and being revered and respected for the incredible genius he is. I hope to goodness they have lost for good and all their habit of picturing Reid as he was in 2005! He is brilliant, competent and professional and I just hope Season 12 shows him as such. As for Hotch, I've seen the whispers about perhaps Beth could come back. NOOOOOOO!

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Droogie

Droogie

Personally, I'm going to need to know Reid doesn't end up alone.  I think (fanwank) his reticence with women on the show stemmed partially from a fear he would develop schizophrenia, and he didn't want to saddle a potential partner with that as their future.  Now that he's largely out from under that burden, he has the worry of possibly developing early-onset dementia.  Life has repeatedly kicked him in the teeth.  He needs something wonderful.

I need to know that won't hinder him from finding someone to spend the rest of his life with, and I need to see it.  It doesn't have to be elaborate, but it needs to happen before the show ends.  Otherwise, I will be absolutely broken-hearted at the idea that Spencer Reid will be alone for the rest of his life (because that's how I will take it). I've read books where the endings just crushed me and have stayed with me to this day -- CM will fall into that category if Spencer doesn't get a happily-ever-after.

Will the writers do a good job?  Probably not.  But I don't care.  I could imagine EM leaving him lonely to the end, and I hatehatehate the thought of it.

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

15 hours ago, normasm said:

Hmmm. I have always thought that Spencer would need to quit the BAU in order to find his life. I think the BAU is kind of like a spouse to him, more than anyone else except (canon!) Rossi. 

Yes, I imagine Reid taking a sabaticcal from the  BAU and he lives partly off his savings (he seems rather thrifty) and makes extra cash consulting on various criminal cases with both the FBI and his BAU colleagues, and with local LEO. He also moves Diana to Quantico so he can be more active in her life.

It is at this time, Reid also has a chance to self-reflect and heal what is hurting him, both personally and professionally. It is at this time, he also meets his future Missus. She could be a nurse at Diana's facility. She could be a woman he hires as a personal assistant. Or she could be a fellow bookworm he meets at his favorite book store/coffee shop combo. No matter what, like Reid, she will be introverted, curious, empathetic and kind. But she will also have her own individualistic characteristics. They're relationship will go from friendship to love and they will get married.There will be no major drama or angst. Just contentment and joy for the both of them. Reid will finally find joy, peace and love. Because if anyone deserves to find joy, peace and love it is Reid.

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MMC

MMC

CBS has just released it schedule.There has been a lot of changes. Some shows have been moved to a different day and/or time.And of course they have added some of their new shows.Not surprising though that Criminal Minds has not been moved from it's regular spot. Once again CM:BB is going to be a mid season replacement and will be sharing a time slot with Code Black. So it is doubtful that it will be getting a full season order of 22 episodes for its second season either.

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MMC

MMC

(edited)
On 5/18/2016 at 0:35 PM, Bookish Jen said:

I keep reading CM: BB as CM: BS.

And CoStar your sassy remark about Erin could "fuck up cheese toast" still has me giggling. I'm from Wisconsin. If you fuck up cheese, you fuck with me!

Say Booky, I was just wondering if there was any significance to you changing Erica's name to Erin. Were you perhaps thinking of Erin Strauss at the time.

Edited by MMC
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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

2 minutes ago, MMC said:

Say Booky, I was just wondering if there was any significance to you changing Erica's name to Erin. Were you perhaps thinking of Erin Strauss at the time.

Egad! Talk about a total Freudian slip. Nope, not related to Erin Strauss at all. Instead, it is the name of my friend Nora's (the Shemar to my Matthew) boss who is a complete farce of a manager and has caused more problems than she is worth and is a total thorn in Nora's side!

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MMC

MMC

6 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Egad! Talk about a total Freudian slip. Nope, not related to Erin Strauss at all. Instead, it is the name of my friend Nora's (the Shemar to my Matthew) boss who is a complete farce of a manager and has caused more problems than she is worth and is a total thorn in Nora's side!

But one that was perfectly understandable. I originally thought perhaps as you were thinking about Erica Messer and her fucking things up, you may also have been subconsciously thinking about the character of Erin Strauss.And how she had been this wonderful antagonist that the team and Hotch in particular had to deal with. Which made things all that more interesting.That is until Erica decided that Strauss should no longer be a thorn in the teams' side, again Hotch in particular, but rather she should start trying to be a BFF to the team.

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Droogie

Droogie

I think he's trying to be a gentleman. Looks to his left and whoops!  So he looks right -- same thing!  But at the same time he probably hasn't often been in such close proximity and at that eye level with two beautiful women. So he darts his eyes to his right again. 

I think it's one of the cuter earlier scenes.  And I'd bet he ad libbed it all.

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Droogie

Droogie

I know nothing (and can barely bring myself to care). Is this good?  Bad? Mediocre?

i remain resentful of this show.  Write for the proven formula.  Pour creative energy, money and talent into making it the powerhouse that has somehow survived 11+ seasons.  Don't churn out a poor clone with sad parodies of the characters we already know and love.  I will never understand this.

MMC

MMC

(edited)
1 hour ago, Droogie said:

I know nothing (and can barely bring myself to care). Is this good?  Bad? Mediocre?

i remain resentful of this show.  Write for the proven formula.  Pour creative energy, money and talent into making it the powerhouse that has somehow survived 11+ seasons.  Don't churn out a poor clone with sad parodies of the characters we already know and love.  I will never understand this.

It's not good that's for sure.Those ratings are mediocre at best. I still maintain that it got renewed by the skin of it's teeth.And the fact that CBS doesn't want to be so quick to cancel yet again another CM spin off.Come to think of it for a first year show that is no where near syndication yeah I'd certainly call those bad ratings.It is going to be interesting to see the DVR ratings.

I remain resentful of it too.Particularly some of the characters(I'm looking at you Monty.You worthless Reid wannabe) I  am also resentful of the fact that they get to have a smaller cast so their team is 4+1.That is a hell of a lot better than 6+1which is what the original CM will have once again if CBS insist on replacing  Shemar Moore and keeping Ashia Tyler.

Edited by MMC
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MMC

MMC

(edited)

Apparently Thomas Gibson will be the one going to Monte Carlo this summer to represent the show.It makes sense for it to be him.I bet they had been trying all along to get TG to make another appearance.And I would bet that Matthew probably had too much on his plate this time.I couldn't see AJC wanting to do it again either not with Phenoix being as little as he is.

Edited by MMC
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autumnmountains

autumnmountains

35 minutes ago, MMC said:

Apparently Thomas Gibson will be the one going to Monte Carlo this summer to represent the show.It makes sense for it to be him.I bet they had been trying all along to get TG to make another appearance.And I would bet that Matthew probably had too much on his plate this time.I couldn't see AJC wanting to do it again either not with Phenoix being as little as he is.

Agreed. :)

thewhiteowl

thewhiteowl

13 hours ago, Droogie said:

I know nothing (and can barely bring myself to care). Is this good?  Bad? Mediocre?

i remain resentful of this show.  Write for the proven formula.  Pour creative energy, money and talent into making it the powerhouse that has somehow survived 11+ seasons.  Don't churn out a poor clone with sad parodies of the characters we already know and love.  I will never understand this.

I want to like it because I really like Sinise but it's bad. Trite and cheesy. Very little profiling more just average police work that makes the locals look like idiots. JMO

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MMC

MMC

Deadline.com has released the list for the 2015-16 season series ranking.I'd post the link for it,except I don't seem to have a lot of luck in that area. Anyways out of a list of a 197 shows or a 196,depending upon which list it is, CM ranked #16 in total viewers and #18 in the 18-49 demo.

Meanwhile Beyond Boredom ranked at #47 in total viewers and #59 in the 18-49 demo.

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

1 minute ago, MMC said:

Deadline.com has released the list for the 2015-16 season series ranking.I'd post the link for it,except I don't seem to have a lot of luck in that area. Anyways out of a list of a 197 shows or a 196,depending upon which list it is, CM ranked #16 in total viewers and #18 in the 18-49 demo.

Meanwhile Beyond Boredom ranked at #47 in total viewers and #59 in the 18-49 demo.

Pretty cool that CM: Original Recipe is in the top 20. But I guess when it comes to Beyond Boredom #47 is the new #16.

Blech.

MMC

MMC

(edited)
4 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I want to like it because I really like Sinise but it's bad. Trite and cheesy. Very little profiling more just average police work that makes the locals look like idiots. JMO

And yet I have seen claims from a couple of people siting how this spin off was more on par today with what the original CM use to be,but seeing as the Spin off is an Erica Messer creation I find that very hard to swallow. So I find your take on it much more believable.

Edited by MMC
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MMC

MMC

11 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Pretty cool that CM: Original Recipe is in the top 20. But I guess when it comes to Beyond Boredom #47 is the new #16.

Blech.

Well according to this one person on another forum I belong to,and they are in a position to know what they are talking about, while research showed that the spin off had not yet found an audience it also showed that eventually it would find one. So that played a huge factor in CBS deciding to renew it.

Although one would think that CBS would be a little more dubious of their so called research seeing as it had told them that getting rid of the girls wouldn't be all that much of a problem,but look how that turnout.

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

13 minutes ago, MMC said:

And yet I have seen claims from a couple of people siting how this spin off was more on par today with what the original CM use to be,but seeing as the Spin off is an Erica Messer creation I find that very hard to swallow. So I find your take on it much more believable.

If BB is on par with the CM of yore I will eat my tiger print flats. BB is just a standard-issue crime procedural with a passport. I wish it was better because I find the premise interesting and I like Gary Sinise. But no, just no.

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thewhiteowl

thewhiteowl

Well, sure it has some elements that are more like OR CM than the later version. Smaller team, each member a different specialist. Stoic leader.  However, it also has elements of "generic procedural" which I don't mind when done well.  This team intrudes on the locals, makes them look incompetent and it's kind of offensive. Hotch has to wait to be asked by the local LEOs. Why can this team just go and insert themselves?  They play it like patriotism. Americans! In! Danger!

Sorry I should take it to that thread. Lol. 

  • Love 4
MMC

MMC

So I just found another list over at TVBYTN.Now the lists I had previously sited included the L+7 numbers.But this list that ranks a show according to its total viewership only includes L+SD ratings.CM ranks at # 25 on this list. So we can see that it made significant gains when it's DVR numbers were factored in.

However on the other hand the Spin off ranks at # 45 in total viewership in the L+SD ratings,but when the L+ 7 numbers are factored in it ranks at # 46.Which tells me that the gains it was making in it's viewership via DVR viewership must have been pretty insignificant.

secnarf

secnarf

2 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

Well, sure it has some elements that are more like OR CM than the later version. Smaller team, each member a different specialist. Stoic leader.  However, it also has elements of "generic procedural" which I don't mind when done well.  This team intrudes on the locals, makes them look incompetent and it's kind of offensive. Hotch has to wait to be asked by the local LEOs. Why can this team just go and insert themselves?  They play it like patriotism. Americans! In! Danger!

Sorry I should take it to that thread. Lol. 

I gave up in BB after a few episodes because the American hubris in each episode was repulsive and I just found myself cringing during the entire episode. However, I did catch the season finale on account of desperately trying to avoid studying, and it was surprisingly much better. There was just a bit of cringe-worthiness with May, who I find to be the most offensive member of the team. They also had a local LEO who was so helpful and competent that I assumed he would be involved in some way, but no, he was genuinely a good guy.

Of course, then there was the case of the week itself, which easily could have been a case on CM: original recipe, and we met the unsub before the team did - although there wasn't quite as much unsub focus as there is on CM:OR. They did have the cheesy bookends that have become commonplace on CM:OR as well. And, I'm significantly less invested in these characters. I have been more invested in characters on shows I have watched for five minutes, and yet I've seen at least four full episodes of CM:BB, but the characters haven't drawn me in. I think the characters are the main strength of any show, and with weak characters, it doesn't really matter what else you have.

  • Love 4
Lebanna

Lebanna

Beyond Boredom might have more viewers if it didn't start with that stupid 'Every year... safety of our borders' voiceover. But, as I've been complaining randomly over on that forum, the principal of the idea mostly doesn't work. I mean, if they go to Ghana and bring a bunch of advanced forensic equipment to some tiny country town, maybe they would have brought something that the area didn't have (although I'd still bet on the cultural knowledge of the locals over a bunch of outsiders).

But especially when they go to seriously rich places like Paris, where in the show the local police department there seem to have the same lack of funds and resources, and no idea what to do, as well as no media training, or Spain this week, where they equally have no forensic resources of their own and just keep dead people's ears in drawers because they don't know what to do with them, it just becomes a complete joke.

More to the point - in this universe, even all these wealthy Western countries similarly lack any specialized team of their own to work on serial cases. They have to rely on the FBI to come in and save them from the baddies because otherwise they'd all just shrug, clock off and go have a very small coffee.

It's just all so silly.

  • Love 6
Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

21 hours ago, Lebanna said:

Beyond Boredom might have more viewers if it didn't start with that stupid 'Every year... safety of our borders' voiceover. But, as I've been complaining randomly over on that forum, the principal of the idea mostly doesn't work. I mean, if they go to Ghana and bring a bunch of advanced forensic equipment to some tiny country town, maybe they would have brought something that the area didn't have (although I'd still bet on the cultural knowledge of the locals over a bunch of outsiders).

But especially when they go to seriously rich places like Paris, where in the show the local police department there seem to have the same lack of funds and resources, and no idea what to do, as well as no media training, or Spain this week, where they equally have no forensic resources of their own and just keep dead people's ears in drawers because they don't know what to do with them, it just becomes a complete joke.

More to the point - in this universe, even all these wealthy Western countries similarly lack any specialized team of their own to work on serial cases. They have to rely on the FBI to come in and save them from the baddies because otherwise they'd all just shrug, clock off and go have a very small coffee.

It's just all so silly.

This really stood out to me. Perhaps BB wouldn't be so irritating if it wasn't so jingoistic to the extreme, so very "Team America to the rescue" as if the rest of the world's LEOs are so out of their league they can't solve any crimes done of their own shores. Perhaps, BB would be better served if a separate BAU acted like "Profilers Without Borders" and traveled to badly served communities in other countries, working with knowledgeable locals to solve crimes. Now that is a show I would definitely watch.

But that would actually take some creativity....

Now onto cleansing the palate. A few days ago, I saw a PBS showing of "The Secret of Crickley Hall." And while watching it I thought to myself, "Self, wouldn't this make a great episode of CM and wouldn't it be great if it was directed by Matthew?" It definitely had aspects of Matthew's directing POV-elements of mystery, subtlety rather than showiness, a great cast with some standout performances, and a story that was truly compelling and stayed with you after the credits rolled. Furthermore, this show had elements that reminded me of two CM episodes directed by Matthew-"Mosley Lane" and "Heathridge Manor."
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2294227/

  • Love 4
MMC

MMC

I decided to go back and check the L+7 ratings for Boredom.Here is what I found. So far its only gained in the demo in its first 2 episodes.And even then it was only an increase of 0.8.And then there was Boredom's overall viewership,the gains it made there,well the mothership made the same gains,if not more, in half the time.I don't yet have the DVR numbers for Boredom's last 2 episodes of the season.But as soon as I can get them I will let everyone know how it did.

Old Dog I know that you mentioned onetime that you really didn't understand the American ratings system.You are not alone,because neither do a lot of Americans.But in simple terms what Boredom's ratings,both L+SD and L+7, seem to be saying is that this show is making little to almost no traction at all with the younger viewers.To give you an indication of how poorly Boredom is doing in it's demo(younger viewers),there was this one week where it yet again failed to get in sort of significant increase.However that same week the show Reign managed to make the chart with an 0.2 gain in its demo.

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