Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I wouldn't completely hate it if they both laid their cards out on the table. UNLESS Felicity is all "if you leave now there will never be an us."

 

If he's going to keep Ra's from killing people in Starling or because Thea's being threatened, I can't imagine her saying anything like that. Unless she means there won't ever be an "us" because he won't be coming back. I don't think she'd ever, under any circumstances, fault him for doing what he thought he had to do to protect people. 

 

I'm getting fic-cy again but I'm gonna need him to kiss her or something and then tell her he needs something to hold onto while he's gone. I'm going to be so disappointed with reality next Wednesday, hahaha

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

If he's going to keep Ra's from killing people in Starling or because Thea's being threatened, I can't imagine her saying anything like that. Unless she means there won't ever be an "us" because he won't be coming back. I don't think she'd ever, under any circumstances, fault him for doing what he thought he had to do to protect people. 

 

I'm getting fic-cy again but I'm gonna need him to kiss her or something and then tell her he needs something to hold onto while he's gone. I'm going to be so disappointed with reality next Wednesday, hahaha

 

Oh I agree. However, if the writers want to make Raylicity work someone might need to shut it down. I'm holding out hope they let the Raylicity boat sail on a three hour tour with a skipper and a Maryanne and a doofus named Gilligan. I just hope the moment is the Olicity of the crossover and not the Olicity of S3E2-7.

[dtissagirl]

I really wish they'll play it like a long con, and Oliver actually has a plan -- maybe in cahoots with Nyssa and/or ARGUS [Maseo is there after all], but we won't see it until whatever episode it is we'll see Oliver again in present time. 312? They can play it like a Leverage episode, which they've done before with the cameras and the fake ILY anyway.

Because if it plays straight up Batman, I honestly have no use for it. Oliver just said out loud he still has his humanity, I NEED THAT TO STICK. OKAY, SHOW?

Edited December 4, 2014 by dancingnancy

[SleepDeprived]

And now I'm back to thinking that this scene will involve Felicity begging him not to go (her voice was so shaky in the promo :( ) because she loves him, and Oliver asking her if she could still love him if he didn't do what he could to save (thea/the city/whatever), and he's going to do something stupid like tell her he wants to be with her when he comes back (and he fully intends to return), and then cue literal cliffhanger and grief (<----this is me fanfic-ing it already). 

 

Obviously I'm steeling myself for some "I want you to be happy without me," BS because that's more likely than not, but if they're truly going for max heartbreak, then Oliver's going to tell her how he feels with every intention of coming back to her, and then he won't. 

 

Oh, God. If this scene turns out to be all the bolded and not the "You should find someone else and be happy" stuff with a kiss, plus a call back to Three Ghosts with the "I'll come back." "Promise me?" and then he doesn't return because of the literal cliffhanger?

 

 

Give me this episode now!

[Angel12d]

Hahaha omg I legit forgot about Ray and Raylicity! This episode and The Flash episode have me like 'Ray who?' Seriously, how are they going to sell that relationship? Nope. Sorry. Not buying it. I know it's wishful thinking but leave it as a kiss. The job was done. Oliver saw it. It hit the nerve it was intended. Move on please. 

 

 

I really wish they'll play it like a long con, and Oliver actually has a plan -- maybe in cahoots with Nyssa and/or ARGUS [Maseo is there after all], but we won't see it until whatever episode it is we'll see Oliver again in present time. 312? They can play it like a Leverage episode, which they've done before with the cameras and the fake ILY anyway.

Because if it plays straight up Batman, I honestly have no use for it. Oliver just said out loud he still has his humanity, I NEED THAT TO STICK. OKAY, SHOW?

 

I love the thought of him having a plan and the idea of Nyssa being involved too. I think she was a little surprised/hurt to hear her father talk about Sara like she was nothing and not important. The 'she was never one of us' comment. The potential to go against her father is there, especially if/when she finds out Ra's was involved in Sara's murder.

 

As for ARGUS, where is Waller in the present day? We've only seen her in flashbacks so far. I'm still convinced she's involved somehow.

 

 

Oh, God. If this scene turns out to be all the bolded and not the "You should find someone else and be happy" stuff with a kiss, plus a call back to Three Ghosts with the "I'll come back." "Promise me?" and then he doesn't return because of the literal cliffhanger?

 

 

Omg if he actually says 'I promise' and then doesn't come back, Felicity will be wrecked! And then combine that with her history with Cooper and thinking he had died, oh noes. My poor Felicity! 

[BkWurm1]

As for ARGUS, where is Waller in the present day? We've only seen her in flashbacks so far. I'm still convinced she's involved somehow.

 

Waller was there at Argus as of last season.  I assume she's around still, occasionally checking in on Starling and the rest of the time bopping around the globe on her broom. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by BkWurm1

[olicityfan25]

They are going to kill us all with that episode.

[Password]

Yeeeah depending on how the episode and Olicity scene pans out, I don't see myself having any time for Ray.

If they kill me with feelings, it's been grand knowing you guys.

That promo wasn't long enough!!!!!

Edited December 4, 2014 by Limbo

[wingster55]

I wonder if Diggle knows Oliver is going to the LOA 

[apinknightmare]

Based on the extended promo:

 

Looks like Thea is going to be the alleged killer, and he's going to Ra's to protect her. Seems like (possibly due to some clever editing), Oliver has every intention of coming back. OLIVER KISSES FELICITY'S FOREHEAD, THERE BETTER BE LOTS MORE

 

FF to next Wednesday please. 

I wonder if Diggle knows Oliver is going to the LOA 

 

Based on the promo, probably. Roy and Felicity know (per their voiceovers). Diggle must know too.

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

Dare I say it... I'm really excited about this episode! And can I say, that Olicity scene looks to be painful. A 9/10 on the pain scale. And women generally have higher thresholds for pain :p But that forehead kiss will do nicely to keep me satisfied over the hiatus. Yes. Very nicely. 

 

ALSO. I hope Diggle gets married before Oliver leaves! D: I WILL ACCEPT NOTHING LESS. 

 

And I also think Thea killing Sara is a red herring. I hope so. 

[Password]

Hmmm I have to say it looks VERY good. I'm excited and scared for it, but I need to see it badly.

Damn Ra's is cold with that sword. Cripes and the music made everything really badass.

Oliver really does not sound like his trip is long term. He finally knows what he's fighting for and it's glorious. All good stuff.

[wonderwall]

It's sad that I'm really excited about that forehead kiss... Ugh this episode is going to be heartbreaking isn't it?

 

 

[SleepDeprived]

Yeah, I think y'all are right about the alleged killer being Thea. Though, I don't think she's definitely going to be the killer (I have a feeling that will be revealed in the "Canaries" episode). Whatever evidence they have that points to Thea was probably planted by either Ra's or Waller. I refuse to believe that it's her because there has been nothing to indicate that Thea would ever murder anyone in cold blood, let alone Sara/the Canary. Red herring!

 

But oh, my heart at that extended promo! Felicity's quivering, worried voice! Oliver knowing exactly what he's fighting for and, seemingly, intent on coming back home! A really emotional-looking forehead kiss! I am so not ready for next week (but I really want to see it now).

 

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I think y'all are right about the alleged killer being Thea. Though, I don't think she's definitely going to be the killer (I have a feeling that will be revealed in the "Canaries" episode). Whatever evidence they have that points to Thea was probably planted by either Ra's or Waller. I refuse to believe that it's her because there has been nothing to indicate that Thea would ever murder anyone in cold blood, let alone Sara/the Canary. Red herring!

 

But oh, my heart at that extended promo! Felicity's quivering, worried voice! Oliver knowing exactly what he's fighting for and, seemingly, intent on coming back home! A really emotional-looking forehead kiss! I am so not ready for next week (but I really want to see it now).

 

 

I'm wondering if this issue they're having with the DNA is just to drag out the reveal or if it's set up for ZOMBIE! Tommy being the real killer since these "issues" could explain away them possibly thinking the killer is a woman when it's a man. It looks like Oliver finds out Thea's been hanging out with Merlyn? He probably thinks Merlyn set her up and ENTER VIOLENT CHOKING.

 

That Oliver says he knows what he's fighting for and is intent on returning home makes me so happy. I realize it could be trickery, but I'm feeling so much better about the potential for an upbeat, determined, positive Oliver going out to fight for his life than sad pants Oliver. Sad pants Oliver is difficult to get behind (but I always manage to do it). I'd like it if Digg and Lyla got married before Oliver left, just because I think Christmas is a nice time to get married. Then we'd have a Christmas wedding, Christmas family feels with Oliver and Thea, a Hannukah forehead kiss for O&F, and the merry murder reveal for the Lance family (SHE BETTER TELL THEM - IF SHE DOESN'T I'LL REMAIN CONVINCED OVER THE HIATUS THAT SHE'S GOING CANARYING TO TRICK LANCE).

 

Good stuff.

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

But we can't have the Christmas wedding! I need the wedding to happen when Oliver comes back so we can have Oliver and Felicity slow dancing and killing me with their intense eye-gazing and delicate touching.

 

What was Thea holding in her hand in the promo? It looked like a green stringy thing with eye holes. Oliver's mask?! But it was kinda light green and not the darker green that Oliver wears. Is Oliver going to come clean to Thea and tell her he's the Arrow?! Is that why Thea and Felicity will be spending more time together in the upcoming episodes next year? Sister-in-law bonding times with Felicity telling Thea how much of a hero her big brother is/was (because they'll think he died because literal cliffhanger!)?!

 

Holy shit. I'm so excited! I need to dial this down so I don't end up disappointed if it doesn't live up to my expectations.

[apinknightmare]

What was Thea holding in her hand in the promo? It looked like a green stringy thing with eye holes. Oliver's mask?! But it was kinda light green and not the darker green that Oliver wears. 

 

It's an ornament.

[MarDelSol]

 

What was Thea holding in her hand in the promo? It looked like a green stringy thing with eye holes.

Looks like a Christmas tree ornament.

 

 

Is that why Thea and Felicity will be spending more time together in the upcoming episodes next year? Sister-in-law bonding times with Felicity telling Thea how much of a hero her big brother is/was (because they'll think he died because literal cliffhanger!)?!

I'm sure it'll be the opposite of what we want, and it'll be more like Felicity calling Thea a monster for killing Sara and blaming her for Oliver's death/sacrifice/Leaguening.

[ban1o]

I hope Thea isn't actually the killer. The trailer seems to be telegraphing it but I'm looking at the youtube comments and no one seems to notice it so maybe she really is the killer. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by ban1o

[SleepDeprived]

It was an ornament? Oh, that makes sense. Well, okay, that's bringing down my excitement levels a bit. Still can't wait to see the episode.

 

 

I'm sure it'll be the opposite of what we want, and it'll be more like Felicity calling Thea a monster for killing Sara and blaming her for Oliver's death/sacrifice/Leaguening.

 

Nah. That would be way out of character for Felicity to do that to Thea. She knows that Oliver's decision is his own. Also, Felicity is not the kind of person who plays the blame game and lashes out indiscriminately (there's another character who has a tendency to be more like that on this show, though). I think Felicity will, probably, be a shoulder to cry on/someone to confide in, maybe, while Oliver is away. Or, I hope, anyway.

[Ariah]

In the extended promo, at 0:31, we can see big windows being broken from the outside in what looks like Thea's new apartment.

 

Could it be the LoA coming in for Xmas dinner?

[strikera0]

Ugh, Thea better be a red herring because if she really is Sara's killer, the only justice I could ever see happening is for the LOA/Nyssa to kill her and that isn't something I want to see. As if Oliver would ever disown his own sister or put her in jail...

Edited December 4, 2014 by strikera0

[Soulfire]

I'm probably wrong because he'll likely end up saying it to Thea, but for the record I'd absolutely love it if Oliver's "I didn't know what I was fighting for. Now I do." is to Felicity. (Preferably after a kiss, but hey, I'm not greedy...)

 

That forehead kiss though. I'm still swooning a little.

 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Soulfire

[Morrigan2575]

It seems like an odd thing to say since Oliver already said something very similar at the end of S1 (fight with Malcolm)

[apinknightmare]

I'm probably wrong because he'll likely end up saying it to Thea, but for the record I'd absolutely love it if Oliver's "I didn't know what I was fighting for. Now I do." is to Felicity. (Preferably after a kiss, but hey, I'm not greedy...)

 

He probably says it to Digg or Felicity. Or Digg and Felicity - probably not Thea. At this point she doesn't know he's been fighting for anything. Although, maybe he tells her in this ep.

 

He could say it to Ra's too, I guess.

 

I'm a romantic though, so I'm hoping for Felicity too, haha.

[chaos is welcome]

I'm probably wrong because he'll likely end up saying it to Thea, but for the record I'd absolutely love it if Oliver's "I didn't know what I was fighting for. Now I do." is to Felicity. (Preferably after a kiss, but hey, I'm not greedy...)

 

That forehead kiss though. I'm still swooning a little.

 

 

There's a scene where oliver is fighting with Malcolm in the lair, so I'm almost certain this is to Malcolm, and is a callback to the final ep of Season 1 when he and Malcolm have that whole conversation about knowing what you are willing to sacrifice.  Hopefully a statement that Oliver absolutely does have a purpose, and isn't just going to give up without a fight.  Wouldn't it be lovely that this time, instead of Oliver handing himself over to die like he did with Slade, he is deciding to fight . . . I'm really hoping whatever we get with all of them isn't him saying goodbye but fully intending to survive.  **fingers crossed**

 

Is there a possibility, between the potential Thea red herring (hopefully) and the glass breakage that the LOA somehow takes Thea? Does anyone know if Willa filmed much in 10-12?

 

Edit--man I'm feeling like those lines are significant in terms of oliver's choices/how he views his own life.

In S1, we had Dig saying that if Oliver faces Malcolm alone, he will kill him.  Oliver's response? "I know"

S2 Slade confrontation, when Oliver plans to give himself in. "All that's left is for me to die."

Now the dialog from these promos, Roy says that Ras will kill Oliver.  Oliver's response.  "NOT THIS TIME."

Are they actually doing this? Showing him making the choice that he wants to live? please let it be so. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[Soulfire]

He probably says it to Digg or Felicity. Or Digg and Felicity - probably not Thea. At this point she doesn't know he's been fighting for anything. Although, maybe he tells her in this ep.

 

He could say it to Ra's too, I guess.

 

I'm a romantic though, so I'm hoping for Felicity too, haha.

 

You and me both.

 

Though I generally don't put any faith into Guggentroll's words, if the bolded part ends up being what an emotional scene between Felicity and Oliver is centered around? Then yeah. I can see how it'd be a 9.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Soulfire

[apinknightmare]

There's a scene where oliver is fighting with Malcolm in the lair, so I'm almost certain this is to Malcolm, and is a callback to the final ep of Season 1 when he and Malcolm have that whole conversation about knowing what you are willing to sacrifice.  Hopefully a statement that Oliver absolutely does have a purpose, and isn't just going to give up without a fight.  Wouldn't it be lovely that this time, instead of Oliver handing himself over to die like he did with Slade, he is deciding to fight . . . I'm really hoping whatever we get with all of them isn't him saying goodbye but fully intending to survive.  **fingers crossed**

 

Is there a possibility, between the potential Thea red herring (hopefully) and the glass breakage that the LOA somehow takes Thea? Does anyone know if Willa filmed much in 10-12?

 

Edit--man I'm feeling like those lines are significant in terms of oliver's choices/how he views his own life.

In S1, we had Dig saying that if Oliver faces Malcolm alone, he will kill him.  Oliver's response? "I know"

S2 Slade confrontation, when Oliver plans to give himself in. "All that's left is for me to die."

Now the dialog from these promos, Roy says that Ras will kill Oliver.  Oliver's response.  "NOT THIS TIME."

Are they actually doing this? Showing him making the choice that he wants to live? please let it be so. 

 

I hope so too. I have a nearly infinite amount of patience with this show, but I'm getting so tired of Oliver giving up. He really needs to start fighting for the Oliver Queen part of himself.

 

With regard to the "now I know what I'm fighting for," I thought he could say it to Malcolm, but he already said something so similar, so...I don't know.

[Soulfire]

...  Wouldn't it be lovely that this time, instead of Oliver handing himself over to die like he did with Slade, he is deciding to fight . . . I'm really hoping whatever we get with all of them isn't him saying goodbye but fully intending to survive.  **fingers crossed**

 

That's definitely what I'm hoping for. I want Oliver to have decided he wants to fight for Thea, for his family (the people close around him) and for Felicity too. That that’s where his cold determination comes from -- not from goodbye. From having found something worth fighting for.

 

If Arrow really is so keen on the Batman parallels, Oliver needs to be fighting not wanting to die and knowing he's got something to lose.

[Morrigan2575]

So Oliver realized exactly what he was fighting for in S1 (friends, family, his city) but somehow forgot that he realized all of this already?

This story was already done, it was done and built upon in S2. So we're just going to continue repeating lessons already learned this early? Shit Smallville at least waited until after S3 before beginning the wash/rinse/repeat cycle with the dumbass.

[apinknightmare]

So Oliver realized exactly what he was fighting for in S1 (friends, family, his city) but somehow forgot that he realized all of this already?

This story was already done, it was done and built upon in S2. So we're just going to continue repeating lessons already learned this early? Shit Smallville at least waited until after S3 before beginning the wash/rinse/repeat cycle with the dumbass.

 

I'm on the low end of the spectrum when it comes to having faith in this show, but maybe we should wait until we know who he's talking to and what the context of the conversation is? 

[looptab]

So Oliver realized exactly what he was fighting for in S1 (friends, family, his city) but somehow forgot that he realized all of this already?

This story was already done, it was done and built upon in S2. So we're just going to continue repeating lessons already learned this early? Shit Smallville at least waited until after S3 before beginning the wash/rinse/repeat cycle with the dumbass.

To be honest, I feel like even the whole thing of "identity" had already been dealt with. 

[Morrigan2575]

To be honest, I feel like even the whole thing of "identity" had already been dealt with.

For Oliver yes, I would agree the whole identity thing has been part of his character evolution since day 1. However, the theme of identity playing out in the other characters has merit, as they never really explored it with any of them. The problem is they're not really exploring anything. Where's Lance's oh can I be a real cop while stuck behind a desk? Where is Diggle's struggle with being a father and on TA? Or Felicity am I more than just Oliver's crush object?

As far as I can tell, Lance and Diggle were resolved between 301-303. Felicity was either dropped or is tied so tightly to Ray that it's getting over shadowed. Nothing on Thea (yet? Ever?) I don't even remember Roy's and Laurel will get 4 episodes to figure it out.

As for the "I now realize what I'm fighting for" line, I stand by my comment, it's a retread, Oliver already realized what he was fighting for in 123. It was pretty much his defining hero moment and tied so closely, with his hero/Archer moment in the flashback that it couldn't/shouldn't be forgotten by the audience or the character. However apparently Oliver and the writers have already forgotten it.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

 

The problem is they're not really exploring anything.

Exactly. I agree with all you've said, it doesn't even bother me that somehow they already addressed this issue, because it's a rich theme and one you can keep expanding on. But they are not really dealing with any of it, and it just looks like, as you said, they're going backwards. Which wouldn't  necessarily be a bad thing, if just it were supported by the story. But it's not. :/ 

Anyway, this midseason finale looks interesting! they better give us something good to hold on. Yay for Nyssa :) 

[chaos is welcome]

Poor Quentin has had nothing outside of Laurel... Bleh

[apinknightmare]

As for the "I now realize what I'm fighting for" line, I stand by my comment, it's a retread, Oliver already realized what he was fighting for in 123. It was pretty much his defining hero moment and tied so closely, with his hero/Archer moment in the flashback that it couldn't/shouldn't be forgotten by the audience or the character. However apparently Oliver and the writers have already forgotten it.

 

I'll respectfully disagree. Not that it isn't a retread because it potentially could be, but we don't know what the context is. Is it in some kind of a flashback of Hong Kong showing that Oliver's accepted the fact that he needs to torture people and do terrible things to save others like tonight's ep showed the beginnings of? Is it somehow a callback to what he previously said/realized with acknowledgment that it is a callback? I'm not going to judge when it's one line in a voiceover that we have absolutely no context for.

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh my gosh.  This morning I decided that I was going to bail on spoilers for the next week because I wanted to be surprised about the Oliver/Felicity level nine scene (you see that this did not work out so well).  Then I came in here just to peek and saw the forehead kiss.  I can deal with that, but if there's more than a forehead kiss (which there'd better be because a forehead kiss is so not a 9 on a scale of 10), I think that I'd like to be totally surprised.  So, I'm hoping that not much of that scene leaks. 

 

Oh God, I think that I'm going to be left sobbing in the corner at the end of this episode.  I'm hoping that it ends with Oliver hanging off of a cliff, and Team Arrow knowing nothing about it.  Then when we return in January, maybe Diggle is losing hope that Oliver is still alive, but Felicity is searching the ends of the earth for him.  Oh, this is going to be awful.

[chaos is welcome]

So that gif posted in spoilers thread, looks like oq/Malcolm are actually upstairs in Verdant (green lightening). I imagine that Malcolm's relationship with Thea is going to come out.

I am finally sort of interested in Sara's murder, simply because Maseo being involved, alive and with the league seems to be a missing detail. Interested to see how things come out. Still doesn't make me feel better about 10-13 though.

Oh my gosh.  This morning I decided that I was going to bail on spoilers for the next week because I wanted to be surprised about the Oliver/Felicity level nine scene (you see that this did not work out so well).  Then I came in here just to peek and saw the forehead kiss.  I can deal with that, but if there's more than a forehead kiss (which there'd better be because a forehead kiss is so not a 9 on a scale of 10), I think that I'd like to be totally surprised.  So, I'm hoping that not much of that scene leaks. 

 

Oh God, I think that I'm going to be left sobbing in the corner at the end of this episode.  I'm hoping that it ends with Oliver hanging off of a cliff, and Team Arrow knowing nothing about it.  Then when we return in January, maybe Diggle is losing hope that Oliver is still alive, but Felicity is searching the ends of the earth for him.  Oh, this is going to be awful.

Yeah based on what we have seen plus what seems to be setting up to happen, there is NO VERSION OF THIS where I see Felicity moving on so quickly with Palmer. None.

Edited December 4, 2014 by chaos is welcome

[apinknightmare]

 Then when we return in January, maybe Diggle is losing hope that Oliver is still alive, but Felicity is searching the ends of the earth for him. 

 

Well, MG tweeted that she wouldn't be. So she'll either think he's dead (I can't really believe this, unless Nyssa comes back and like...brings them his things. Even still, without a body, IDK how they'd give up), or she'll be in on some larger plan that we don't know about yet. Or maybe she will be looking for him and MG is a lying liar who lies.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Well, MG tweeted that she wouldn't be. So she'll either think he's dead (I can't really believe this, unless Nyssa comes back and like...brings them his things. Even still, without a body, IDK how they'd give up), or she'll be in on some larger plan that we don't know about yet. Or maybe she will be looking for him and MG is a lying liar who lies.

 

Crap, I forgot about that.  I hope that he's lying.  I don't think that I can deal with a heartbroken Felicity.

[wingster55]

I don't think Oliver meant that he knows why he's fighting in general..but maybe he knows why he needs to fight Ra's. Thea.

 

Didn't someone say that Stephen said (he said, she said) we'd know definitely who killed Sara in 3.09?

 

I hope that Oliver's goodbye to Diggle is just as big/significant.

Edited December 4, 2014 by wingster55

[ostentatious]

I didn’t know what I was fighting for…now I do.

 

Calling it:

 

Level 9 Olicity scene is Oliver finally deciding he’s all in and going to Felicity…and sexytimes but not sextimes occur.

 

Then he has to leave for Nanda Parbat.

 

This line is in response to Felicity’s fear that he won’t come back, and immediately precedes or follows the forehead kiss.

 

It means that unlike every time before, he knows he has reasons to come back to SC and live life. His reasons all start with F: Friends, Family, and Felicity.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ostentatious

[chaos is welcome]

Plan to infiltrate the loa? This is the only thing I can think of? Why did it take 8 eps for things to finally get interesting?

[tv echo]

From the spoilers, I got the impression that Laurel doesn't actually suit up in next week's episode and that her new BC costume debuts in the first episode in January.  So Laurel can't be impersonating Sara/Canary to fool her parents, unless her mother Dinah is hanging around Starling City over the holidays and into the New Year.  So most likely it's Oliver's disappearance that leads to Roy and Laurel both making appearances around the city in costume, in Oliver's absence, to fool some bad guys.

 

Nyssa informs Oliver of Ra's al Ghul's ultimatum to find Sara's killer or have Starling City be destroyed.  Oliver's surrendering himself to Ra's to save the city is just so deja vu.  Didn't he try to surrender himself to Slade just last season to save the city?  Ra's looks less scary than Brother Blood.

 

The spoilers about the Thea and Felicity scenes in the back half of the season sound really intriguing.  I'm looking forward to seeing those. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by tv echo

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yeah based on what we have seen plus what seems to be setting up to happen, there is NO VERSION OF THIS where I see Felicity moving on so quickly with Palmer. None.

 

Yeah, I just don't see how she would get into a relationship with Ray after Oliver possibly telling her that he knows what he's fighting for now.  Maybe she will become more friendly with Ray during the Buckle Saga, but I see her promptly shutting him down if he tries anything romantic.

 

I'm just worried that they are going to destroy us with Oliver's return.  If he's coming back in episode 12, are they really going to let us have Olicity that soon?  With their love of "one step forward, two steps back," I'm so worried that they are going to have Oliver come back all messed up in the head, or something like that :(

[blixie]

 

That Oliver says he knows what he's fighting for and is intent on returning home makes me so happy. I realize it could be trickery, but I'm feeling so much better about the potential for an upbeat, determined, positive Oliver going out to fight for his life than sad pants Oliver. Sad pants Oliver is difficult to get behind

 

Me too, I'm so so glad he's fighting and confident and determined to get back to all the people that matter to Oliver Queen: Felicity, Thea, Team Arrow, ugh fine even Laurel. But let's not get crazy, positive and upbeat hard for Oliver on his best days, but I think that's why I like that the crossover eps shows us that Oliver again, how tied it is to his humanity and his identity as Oliver Queen, I just loved the hell out of Barry for saying The Arrow is a douche, it's Oliver Queen who inspires, and it made me think when he does return to town Ray better watch it because Oliver is going to be coming for his company too.

 

 

 

 

So Oliver realized exactly what he was fighting for in S1 (friends, family, his city) but somehow forgot that he realized all of this already?

This story was already done, it was done and built upon in S2. So we're just going to continue repeating lessons already learned this early? Shit Smallville at least waited until after S3 before beginning the wash/rinse/repeat cycle with the dumbass.

 

Eh, obviously I agree that having Oliver repeat the same lessons is tedious in general, but the his repeating same statement isn't necessarily him learning the *same lesson*. It's been clear since the Calm they were regressing and erasing everything we thought he already learned, BUT I can see that they are really committed to Oliver Next Leveling it both in terms of his personal development and his heroic development. The Crossover had him realizing he can't keep falling back on his trauma as an excuse, he can't justify torture, if he doesn't like what torturing does to him, like STOP torturing. A Hero's motto isn't the ends justify the means. When he said those words to Merlyn he understood what his fight was about *then* in that moment, but now he's at different moment and what he wants to fight for now is more than just the abstractions of His City or Vengeance or Tommy's Memory. It's gotta be more than that he's fighting for people to have good, happy lives, and that has to include his own.

[apinknightmare]

From the spoilers, I got the impression that Laurel doesn't actually suit up in next week's episode and that her new BC costume debuts in the first episode in January.  So Laurel can't be impersonating Sara/Canary to fool her parents, unless her mother Dinah is hanging around Starling City over the holidays and into the New Year.  So most likely it's Oliver's disappearance that leads to Roy and Laurel both making appearances around the city in costume, in Oliver's absence, to fool some bad guys.

 

I didn't think she'd suit up while Dinah was in town, more like Dinah and Quentin would express some worry about not hearing from Sara and maybe decide that if they didn't hear from her by a certain date they'd start looking for her. If Dinah is in the dark about Sara being in the LoA (which...how?), maybe Quentin admits to it and debunks whatever cover story they've told her to explain Sara's absence, and Laurel tells Quentin that she'll get in touch with the Arrow to see if he can find her. Then a bit of time and a suiting up and showing up at a crime scene (in the distance, of course) where Quentin would see to maybe ease his mind? I can see her getting a rush out of it and trying to actually fight some crime, IDK. 

 

Granted, I don't think this is likely - there are a lot of issues with it, like...would Quentin not be suspicious about the masked Sara not coming closer to talk to him? Anyway...I do think it's a possibility. Because Oliver disappearing doesn't require Laurel to dress up - it just doesn't. Not when Roy's around and Diggle can go out as the Arrow from time to time. Then again, maybe I'm just hanging too heavily on MG's statement that an event necessitates (or makes her dressing up necessary, however he phrased it) the costume, which implies to me that something would happen if she didn't put it on, which isn't the case if she just wants to suit up to help the team since Oliver's gone. 

 

Although that probably is ultimately why she does it. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

Good point about Diggle dressing up as the Arrow and Roy still being around.  But still it would be unbelievably cruel to go that far just to fool the parents into believing Sara was still alive.  Dinah isn't in danger of a heart attack, so why not confide in the mother at least and ask her opinion on telling Quentin?  Also, people in Starling City have seen the Canary in action, so there could still be some reason for fooling the bad guys.  But who knows.  The reason will probably be a contrived plot device just to get her into costume.

 

A lot of what the EPs do doesn't make sense.  If Laurel is impersonating the Canary for whatever reason, why isn't her costume more similar to Sara's (with the cleavage)?  And why go to the trouble of having a fancy leather costume (with buckles!) made just for a one or two time use?

Edited December 4, 2014 by tv echo

[ostentatious]

I think the reason we're repeating the "I know what I'm fighting for" theme from late season one is the same reason we're repeating a lot of themes from season one: this is their do-over.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ostentatious

[Angel12d]

FOREHEAD KISS. I may have died a little. That was on my Olicity wish list so I'm very happy. And he closes his eyes when he does it too. So much love. SA, I applaud your acting choices. I'm swooning over here.

 

I really like the sound of Oliver being so positive and knowing what he's fighting for. I think he's saying that about Thea but it's possible it's about Felicity too. It could be about them all. They really are a family now. I'm really not going to guess at this point. 

 

But I must admit I'm a little confused because this season is meant to be about identity and the possible threat to Oliver's humanity but all we've seen so far this season is him holding onto it. He may have said he can't be Oliver Queen and the Arrow but the only area of his life where this is in effect is his romantic life with Felicity. He's holding onto his humanity by being a better brother to Thea. He's opening himself up to Barry. He's being a good mentor to Roy. He's surrounding himself with Digg and Lyla's family. I'm not seeing the distinction yet. So I wonder if we're going to see a different Oliver return in 313 and the rest of the season we see him struggling. I don't know. I guess what I've seen so far has not been as bleak as I imagined tbh.

 

 

Waller was there at Argus as of last season.  I assume she's around still, occasionally checking in on Starling and the rest of the time bopping around the globe on her broom. 

 

 

I meant where is Waller this season. It's strange that Waller is nowhere to be seen but in flashbacks and Lyla now seems in charge of ARGUS. I just wonder if that means something.