Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Why would it drive a wedge between O/F? Felicity is doing her own thing way before. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Why would it drive a wedge between O/F? Felicity is doing her own thing way before. 

Do we know that? I may have missed something. I thought that 510-512 might lead to Felicity doing her own thing. 

[Velocity23]

From what i understood from the TV Line article it will be the events of 5x10 with Black Siren that will made her choose her path.

And that her choice will be also for Oliver not against him. 

Edited January 1, 2017 by Velocity23

[Cleanqueen]

By how shocked Wendy was that people caught on to that camera zoom of the russian vodka she think the audience is too stupid to know that Susan is shady. They're going for that omg moment when Susan ends up betraying Oliver. Wether she decides against it or not, shes definitely going to have info on him that she could use against him.

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Wether she decides against it or not, shes definitely going to have info on him that she could use against him.

We already know that she does - she hired a PI who told her he wasn't on the island the whole five years he was away (and gave her a picture to prove it). 

[Chaser]

Everything said about Oliver and Reporter, seems in conflict with everything shown about Oliver and Reporter. 

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

We already know that she does - she hired a PI who told her he wasn't on the island the whole five years he was away (and gave her a picture to prove it). 

That's the other thing - her investigation is bringing other people in. The PI gave her the photo. Are we to believe she has enough money to keep him from blabbing to someone else who might be willing to pay? And we don't know what she may have told her producer already - or someone else - before she started having "genuine" (I really hate that word describing this "relationship") feelings for Oliver. 

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

We already know that she does - she hired a PI who told her he wasn't on the island the whole five years he was away (and gave her a picture to prove it). 

Yeah and the issue is they showed that in 5x05, 5x07, she asked him about Russia and they went out for drinks and nothing since. So they think the audience has somewhat forgot about her investigation and thought a close up of some Russian vodka wouldn't give too much away. They're going for the omg moment but will fail miserably since everyone already knows shes shady or the other crazy side who thinks shes prometheus.

[statsgirl]

I think the camera lingering on the bottle of Russian vodka was deliberate to remind viewers that Susan is investigating Oliver's Russian connections.

My question is will they actually tell the story they seem to be setting up -- Isabel... er, I mean Susan coming in doing the dirty on Thea as she tries to bring Oliver down (why?  Because it's a story?   Or because she's connected to Prometheus, or because the Queen family hurt her at some time?) and everyone warns Oliver against her?  leading to Oliver getting into trouble because of her?  Or will they 'General Hospitalize'* the story, have her fall for Oliver's magic penis and decide not to run her story after all?  SA saying that this won't be another Isabel situation and WM pushing their "real feelings" suggests that will be the case.

It might work as a movie and if Felicity did not exist but frankly it seems boring as hell on this show.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that Felicity is going to have nothing to do with this story, contrary to those Olicity posters who seem to think that Susan's main job is to make Felicity realize she wants Oliver after all.

* On General Hospital, no matter how bad Sonny and Jason are or how stupid they are, they always come out to be proven right.

ETA:  Will they also bring the question of "Who can Oliver trust?" into the Susan story  He was hesitant to trust people before this season but now he's jumping into trust like a diving pool (encouraged by Felicity).  He was already proven wrong with Evelyn; I'll hate it if he's proven to be right to trust Susan in spite of all the red flags.

Edited January 1, 2017 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

One thing I am pretty sure of is that Felicity is going to have nothing to do with this story, contrary to those Olicity posters who seem to think that Susan's main job is to make Felicity realize she wants Oliver after all.

ETA:  Will they also bring the question of "Who can Oliver trust?" into the Susan story  He was hesitant to trust people before this season but now he's jumping into trust like a diving pool (encouraged by Felicity).  He was already proven wrong with Evelyn; I'll hate it if he's proven to be right to trust Susan in spite of all the red flags.

I don't think the LIs, at least right now, have anything to do with Olicity as a couple - especially since they seem to be stressing that Oliver and Felicity are friends right now. (At least in interviews.) I think they're more about those two as partners on the team.

And the whole matter of trust. Turns out, despite spec, Felicity could trust Billy when it came to telling him she works with GA. He was a good guy. On the other hand, I don't see any point in proving Oliver was right to trust Susan after the way she was introduced with Thea and since it looks like she's gone after 512. I think if that were true, instead of things like the Russian vodka and Thea again against Susan in 509, we'd get little signs that Susan could turn around and not use what she has against Oliver. 

[thegirlsleuth]

This may have been covered before, but did anyone come up with a reason for the mark on Susan's wrist? With Talia showing up, I wondered if it was a faded League of Assassins brand, tying Susan to Talia (and Russia) in some way.

Now that they've mined the Batman movies for plots and themes, perhaps they've moved on to Daredevil.  As a person who ended up fast forwarding through the first season of Daredevil so I only watched the Wilson Fisk scenes, this is not a huge selling point for me.  I personally find Matt Murdock kind of a dope, much like Oliver this season, but if Vigilante is their version of Punisher, I wouldn't mind Felicity teaming up with him and exploring other forms of justice. 

I know that they are avoiding any conflict between Oliver and Felicity this season, but I wonder if there will be any conflict when Oliver leaves town to find the super fighting female with the sonic scream instead of staying in town and hunting down Prometheus.  I'd kind of like that, although in reality Felicity will probably be totes cool with Oliver letting Prometheus run free on the streets. Is it wrong that I sort of want to see Felicity burn everything down in season 5B? With a flamethrower, ideally.

[LeighAn]

I enjoyed the Karen storyline in season 2 of Daredevil and exploring a darker part of her character and linking that to her faith in Franks redemption filling her own need for redemptionbut I could have done without the romantic implications as it came across to me as Karen having Stockholm syndrome for someone who is essentially a serial killer. 

So in terms of spec about Felicity and Vigilante I'm okay with them teaming up and Felicity being drawn on to his method of justice as a symptom of her going dark but I choose to veto any similarities beyond that. I'm okay with Felicity being morally questionable but less okay with me questioning her sanity in her choices haha. Oliver wanting to find good in Not Laurel and sleeping with a reporter is enough insanity for me haha.

I also don't think the Arrow writers have the same finesse as the Daredevil writers. Their not subtle their more hit you with a hammer writers. I don't think they could pull off that level of complexity to the character especially given both Karen and Felicity are fundamentally different.

That being said I'm still of the opinion that Felicitys darkness is being over sold by Wendy over selling is my middle name Mericele. I'm still sceptical that Felicity will do anything that crosses major lines like Dig shooting his brother and I don't think she's going evil.

Edited January 2, 2017 by LeighAn

[statsgirl]

They weren't will to let Laurel go truly dark even though KC would have done much better with Dark Laurel than St. Laurel.  I doubt they will let their 'light' Felicity go truly dark.

2 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Is it wrong that I sort of want to see Felicity burn everything down in season 5B? With a flamethrower, ideally.

I'd be totes interested in that.  She would be my avatar if she did.

7 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Turns out, despite spec, Felicity could trust Billy when it came to telling him she works with GA. He was a good guy. On the other hand, I don't see any point in proving Oliver was right to trust Susan after the way she was introduced with Thea and since it looks like she's gone after 512. I think if that were true, instead of things like the Russian vodka and Thea again against Susan in 509, we'd get little signs that Susan could turn around and not use what she has against Oliver. 

That's a good point that they haven't shown any indication that Susan is considering that she's doing the wrong thing going after Oliver.   But this show is up and down in terms of adequate foreshadowing.

It's interesting that both Felicity and Oliver trust others.  Felicity is right in trusting Billy, it will be an interesting statement about their respective intuition and knowledge of people.if Oliver is wrong to trust Susan.

eta:  is that you at TVLine MaisyDaisy posting as Maisy?

Quote

Perhaps Felicitys 5B ‘dark’ plot line can be that she turns to killing the bad guys with the help of Vigilante, unfortunatly she accidentally kills Susan in a set up. She gets comfort from the whole crew while Oliver gets a one armed side cuddle from Thea for a few mins. Felicity then goes to the new DAs home, where he answers the door clad only in black silk boxers (dispite the fact that its winter) they proceed to kiss passionatly while the camera turns to Oliver sitting alone in the Arrow cave sobbing while gently holding a bottle of Russian vodka.

Edited January 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[MaisyDaisy]

Yeah that's me. It looks ridiculous when it's gender bent doesn't it? Felicity would be labeled a whore, evil, there would be even more calls for her to be killed off. But anyone critiquing Oliver for his actions gets put down as someone unable to see past a shipping bias. 

At this point I am sure they would have blamed the outrage at erasing Sara Diggle for a male character on shippers if they could have. I mean it's not rocket science, there is a theme to what is pissing people off, and it about female representation and treatment, so why they are so shocked to be called out on Felicity's tragedy being bogarted for Oliver's man pain- AGAIN, makes me realise how un-self aware they are.

[Sunshine]

Genuine question...Is it possible that Stunts Canada (I think that's the name they go by) has a female shortage since Supergirl moved to Vancouver?  I think I read that both Stephen and Katie's doubles moved to Supergirl.  Thea has suited up twice this season - once (quite reluctantly HA!) when Oliver was kidnapped in 5.01 and again in 5.09, (much more willingly) when Felicity's boyfriend was kidnapped.  She stood on a rooftop and had a conversation. I think she ran and shot arrows in 5.01.   With the exception of 5.02 and the ring the bell schtick, I don't recall Artemis actually doing anything extra physical that Madison probably couldn't do.  In 5.03 she helped a kid in the market off the ground.  In 5.04 she tossed something behind Ragman and helped injured Curtis out. She also used a bow and arrow.  In 5.06 and 5.07 I think she was mainly mouthy to Oliver.  The training scenes (5.05?) with the sticks were the actors.  I always thought everyone had to have one "just in case" but I was wondering if maybe that's not true. It also made me wonder if the reason for the worldwide casting call for Tina was because they wanted an actress who not only could sell the role transition-wise but maybe do some of her own stunts (ala Caity Lotz) if she is supposed to be the "best fighter Oliver has ever seen".  I know one poster thinks it was because of chemistry with Steve. :-)   

[Velocity23]

There was no actual chemistry test done though. 

[arjumand]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Felicity then goes to the new DAs home, where he answers the door clad only in black silk boxers (dispite the fact that its winter)

 

2 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Yeah that's me. It looks ridiculous when it's gender bent doesn't it? Felicity would be labeled a whore, evil, there would be even more calls for her to be killed off. But anyone critiquing Oliver for his actions gets put down as someone unable to see past a shipping bias. 

At this point I am sure they would have blamed the outrage at erasing Sara Diggle for a male character on shippers if they could have. I mean it's not rocket science, there is a theme to what is pissing people off, and it about female representation and treatment, so why they are so shocked to be called out on Felicity's tragedy being bogarted for Oliver's man pain- AGAIN, makes me realise how un-self aware they are.

The part I quoted is absolutely my favourite bit, as it's the one that annoyed me most when I was watching. Seriously, it's fucking December when this happens - who the fuck answers the door wearing silky lingerie rather than a full-length fleecy dressing gown? Also, the phrases "do you know what time it is?" and "What the fuck do you want?" would have sprinted to my lips in such an occasion. But Susan is perfect in every way - she goes to sleep fully-made up and wearing lingerie, in case hot mayors suffering man-pain need to be cheered up at 3am.

[tv echo]

Juliana Harkavy's birthday was yesterday (Jan. 1).  She just turned 32.  So... Happy Birthday to her!

[insomniadreams88]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

The part I quoted is absolutely my favourite bit, as it's the one that annoyed me most when I was watching. Seriously, it's fucking December when this happens - who the fuck answers the door wearing silky lingerie rather than a full-length fleecy dressing gown? Also, the phrases "do you know what time it is?" and "What the fuck do you want?" would have sprinted to my lips in such an occasion. But Susan is perfect in every way - she goes to sleep fully-made up and wearing lingerie, in case hot mayors suffering man-pain need to be cheered up at 3am.

I wouldn't have been surprised if they had Susan working for Prometheus, therefore knew Oliver is GA, knew what he did and maybe, I don't know, Evelyn set up cameras in the lair, so she saw Oliver leave or put a tracking chip on him or something - or just called his security detail again (since that was apparently A-OK even though she's a reporter - still annoyed about Oliver not caring about that - though they probably had no idea where he was since they don't seem to care about keeping track of or protecting the mayor in a city where mayors drop like flies) - and just knew he was coming over (maybe she was staring out her window and saw him come up the front steps?) and put on the lingerie.

I don't remember the last time on any show they had a female character answer the door in the middle of the night when she shouldn't have been expecting anyone, wearing lingerie - especially in the middle of winter. That's why the whole "no, they didn't have sex" clarification had to happen. And on top of the BFS tweets "explaining" the episodes? Not a good sign for a show. 

[Featherhat]

4 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

There was no actual chemistry test done though. 

Do we know that for sure? I would have assumed any Black Canary would have had one done, even if they don't plan to LI her at the moment.

If she is coming in as a potential regular the network would have had to sign off on her I guess as well. Do we know if JH has any training to be able to do any of her own stunts? I can see why they'd want a more CL type even if the stunt company has a lot of available people, CL looks great doing them and it makes a more believable scene, especially as this is an area where they had problems with KC even though she made an effort to train and tone up.

[Velocity23]

13 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

If she is coming in as a potential regular the network would have had to sign off on her I guess as well. Do we know if JH has any training to be able to do any of her own stunts? I can see why they'd want a more CL type even if the stunt company has a lot of available people, CL looks great doing them and it makes a more believable scene, especially as this is an area where they had problems with KC even though she made an effort to train and tone up.

They do the chemistry tests in Los Angeles. They also didn't bother doing a chemistry test between KC and SA. 

Juliana Harkavy is a recurring guest star. Dont think the option for regular in next season is anything unusual. 

[tv echo]

54 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Do we know if JH has any training to be able to do any of her own stunts? I can see why they'd want a more CL type even if the stunt company has a lot of available people, CL looks great doing them and it makes a more believable scene, especially as this is an area where they had problems with KC even though she made an effort to train and tone up.

From JH's official website: "In addition to acting, Juliana is a published writer and poet, visual artist, musician, and athlete." http://www.julianaharkavy.com/biography

No mention of stuntwork or fight training in JH's bio (although she did post on facebook in early December that she had been working with T3 Athletics and Bamford for two months).

[AyChihuahua]

6 hours ago, Sunshine said:

It also made me wonder if the reason for the worldwide casting call for Tina was because they wanted an actress who not only could sell the role transition-wise but maybe do some of her own stunts (ala Caity Lotz) if she is supposed to be the "best fighter Oliver has ever seen".  I know one poster thinks it was because of chemistry with Steve. :-)   

Why not both? Even if they don't PLAN to get them together, it's probably not a bad idea to have decent chem in their back pocket.

[Chaser]

I don't think there is any evidence they didn't screen test SA and JH. He spends a lot of weekends in Palm Springs, he could have easily flown down to LA for a chemistry test. 

Personally, I think ever future member of Team Arrow should have some type of chemistry test. That was a big problem with KC for me. I never felt she gelled with the others.

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Do we know that for sure? I would have assumed any Black Canary would have had one done, even if they don't plan to LI her at the moment.

We don't know that at all. A lot of things get stated here as fact with no backup.

[Velocity23]

15 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

We don't know that at all. A lot of things get stated here as fact with no backup.

Yes all the statements of of Tina being the LI have been flying around like crazy. 

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Personally, I think ever future member of Team Arrow should have some type of chemistry test. That was a big problem with KC for me. I never felt she gelled with the others.

This is just me being curious, but I'm trying to remember, did EK have a chemistry test with EBR? I remember him talking about auditioning for a role and then being later told it was for Mr. Terrific, but I don't remember anything beyond that. If they didn't have one, then I kind of think they lucked out a bit with him as well with how Curtis and Felicity bounced off each other in s4, despite my whiplash feelings about Curtis during various times in s4-s5.

[lemotomato]

34 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

We don't know that at all. A lot of things get stated here as fact with no backup.

Like how MG supposedly said somewhere that they filmed a sex scene for 509?

Edited January 2, 2017 by lemotomato

[Chaser]

14 minutes ago, way2interested said:

This is just me being curious, but I'm trying to remember, did EK have a chemistry test with EBR? I remember him talking about auditioning for a role and then being later told it was for Mr. Terrific, but I don't remember anything beyond that. If they didn't have one, then I kind of think they lucked out a bit with him as well with how Curtis and Felicity bounced off each other in s4, despite my whiplash feelings about Curtis during various times in s4-s5.

For some reason I want to say yes but I honestly can't remember where I read it. Of course they believe EBR has chemistry with everyone so it's entirely possible they didn't bother.

I wonder if they chemistry tested the temps. I want to say no. Or they honestly didn't care if they worked at all.

[bijoux]

I thought he was chem tested with EBR too, but actually casting got a correct read on them being able to mesh well together.

Quote

Did they have you do a chemistry test with Emily Bett Rickards? Her character, Felicity, is an important person in Curtis’s life and an entry point for him into Team Arrow.
When I went in to the audition room for the first time with [casting director] David [Rapaport], he was like “Oh my God, you and Emily would be perfect for each other.” I think they just really trust their gut because they didn’t have us test or chemistry read or anything. They can just feel different energies. I love working with Emily. We’re similar in a lot of ways, and we both really respect each other and have the same sense of humor and sensibilities. It’s amazing that David saw that from the jump. 

Source

[HighHopes]

posted before i was ready somehow. please delete. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by HighHopes

[insomniadreams88]

48 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Personally, I think ever future member of Team Arrow should have some type of chemistry test. That was a big problem with KC for me. I never felt she gelled with the others.

I agree with this. Honestly, if Tina is going to be a LI for anyone possibly down the line, they should have done a chemistry test. It couldn't hurt.

I feel the same way for any possible series regular who will be spending most of their time acting with any of the current series regulars. 

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I thought he was chem tested with EBR too, but actually casting got a correct read on them being able to mesh well together.

I think this is part of why Curtis worked so well in S4 and they wanted him back in S5 - he and Felicity had such a great, fun dynamic. The problem now in S5 is the writing for Curtis, so a chemistry test in that case wouldn't have mattered.

[HighHopes]

21 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Yes all the statements of of Tina being the LI have been flying around like crazy. 

I think a lot of people forget about the "speculation" part of this thread. We only have so many spoilers to go off of and half the fun is speculating what will happen. Based off what we have from the sides, and that the name of the character is correct, it seems pretty damn okay to speculate that the rest of the slides would be correct and that Tina would be the NuBC and a LI. 

I'm not sure when this thread became "only talk about the spoilers we know for sure will happen and then all speculation is prohibited" but it really takes away the fun of talking about the spoilers. 

I also recently rediscovered that CG also saw the Black Canary filming during the finale, so I think that has to give me some credit for seeing her and posting about it. Just because she wasn't in the finale doesn't mean she wasn't there. Just like I'm 80% positive I saw JH/Tina at the diner and possible DR. 

I would also like clarification on if we are trusting the paps or not please. Because they said EBR wasn't at the mansion filming in 5x08, but she was, so we don't trust them. But they say that Tina wasn't filming at the diner so that must mean she wasn't there. 

Edited January 3, 2017 by HighHopes

[tangerine95]

Curtis and Felicity do have a nice chemistry tho i do think what they tried to achieve with Curtis and Felicity works way better with Felicity and Cisco.  But tbh sometimes it gets tiring since they're both a similar type of character and there's a lot of fast talking tech babble and lately its like Felicity can barely get a word in with Curtis. I think I actually prefer Felicity's dynamics with characters that are different from her and don't feel like a copy of her which is imo one of the reasons ota worked so well. 

[Carrie Ann]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I agree with this. Honestly, if Tina is going to be a LI for anyone possibly down the line, they should have done a chemistry test. It couldn't hurt.

I feel the same way for any possible series regular who will be spending most of their time acting with any of the current series regulars. 

I think this is part of why Curtis worked so well in S4 and they wanted him back in S5 - he and Felicity had such a great, fun dynamic. The problem now in S5 is the writing for Curtis, so a chemistry test in that case wouldn't have mattered.

TBH, I didn't really like Curtis/Felicity's dynamic in S4--or at least not when they were acting like boss/employee, because I thought they were both just kind of...unnecessarily snotty to each other. But I did/do like them as friends, and people who think similarly. I just think it would serve the show better to distinguish between their specific skills, and show them being supportive of each other in those areas rather than being kind of competitive/one-upping like they do sometimes.

I also agree that if they intend Tina to be a part of the team for longer than this half-season, some chemistry testing with the core cast would have been a good idea, regardless of their intentions for her as an LI. OTOH, I'm not sure what they did with RG, and it does feel like they have longer-term plans for him. But I don't think a lack of chemistry with the cast is my problem with WD. I think RG is good at being "engaged" in his scenes--he's not just waiting to say his lines like some other actors who have appeared on this show, ahem. I just don't like his character much, and I really don't like the amount of focus he's getting for someone who hasn't proved worthy of it.

[AyChihuahua]

510 ends (from the Reddit spoilers that seem to be confirmed by the previews) on what is almost certainly Tina with a Canary Cry and 511 is Tina's formal introduction. I get that some people think it's LL, but since paps have reported that KC's not been filming, that seems really really unlikely to me. So the NuBC part just doesn't seem to be in any real doubt at this point.

Re Tina being Oliver's LI, I am at 50/50. Especially if the announcement Geoff Johns was referring to is another spinoff. I think she'd go and take the puppy and probably Rags with her. (But man will I be surprised if there is another spinoff, with all the down ratings, etc. Maybe a half-season to complement LOT?)

Edited January 2, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I feel like this Canadagraphs thing came up again because I went to his blog to check his reporting on the diner scene the other day when @statsgirl asked about it. No offense to you @HighHopes, it's just that when I searched your username + diner and + tina, nothing came up, and rather than looking through pages of posts about it, I went to CG's website, since I knew he posted about that day and I could find it easily. 

Whether JH was on set or not, whether DR was on set or not, there are pictures of EK, RG, and SA there -so we can say for sure that those three were present. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Felicity works best with a straight man. I think her and Cisco work because whole they are similar they don't overwhelm each other. Curtis can get overwhelming as a character and unfortunately there is an air of 'entitlement' around him because as a comic character he gets a free pass.

15 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I think a lot of people forget about the "speculation" part of this thread. We only have so many spoilers to go off of and half the fun is speculating what will happen. Based off what we have from the slides, and that the name of the character is correct, it seems pretty damn okay to speculate that the rest of the slides would be correct and that Tina would be the NuBC and a LI. 

I'm not sure when this thread became "only talk about the spoilers we know for sure will happen and then all speculation is prohibited" but it really takes away the fun of talking about the spoilers. 

I also recently rediscovered that CG also saw the Black Canary filming during the finale, so I think that has to give me some credit for seeing her and posting about it. Just because she wasn't in the finale doesn't mean she wasn't there. Just like I'm 80% positive I saw JH/Tina at the diner and possible DR. 

I would also like clarification on if we are trusting the paps or not please. Because they said EBR wasn't at the mansion filming in 5x08, but she was, so we don't trust them. But they say that Tina wasn't filming at the diner so that must mean she wasn't there. 

Up until this season, the Paps had the best info. I don't think taking there word for something is crazy. I do think people are a little more skeptical now because of some inconsistencies. 

I wont speak for everyone but for me personally, I don't mind the spec of Tina being BC or being LI. I mind the way some treat it as fact and condense anyone who disagrees it's a done deal.

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wont speak for everyone but for me personally, I don't mind the spec of Tina being BC or being LI. I mind the way some treat it as fact and condense anyone who disagrees it's a done deal.

Yup. And it's honestly not restricted to her character, there's a lot of this going around.

[AyChihuahua]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wont speak for everyone but for me personally, I don't mind the spec of Tina being BC or being LI. I mind the way some treat it as fact and condense anyone who disagrees it's a done deal.

I don't know anyone who's positive she'll be Oliver's LI. I still don't think the writers even know for sure.

At this point I don't see how she's not NuBC, but thankfully that'll be cleared up one way or the other soon.

[HighHopes]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I feel like this Canadagraphs thing came up again because I went to his blog to check his reporting on the diner scene the other day when @statsgirl asked about it. No offense to you, it's just that when I searched your username + diner and + tina, nothing came up, and rather than looking through pages of posts about it, I went to CG's website, since I knew he posted about that day and I could find it easily. 

Whether JH was on set or not, whether DR was on set or not, there are pictures of EK, RG, and SA there -so we can say for sure that those three were present. 

My post wasn't directed at you. But I have seen other posts talking about how my information may be unreliable because I also reported seeing the BC during the finale filming and since she wasn't, I can't be trusted. But CG also saw a BC during the filming, but he is still trustworthy. 

I was across the street and only had my phone's camera so I may very well be wrong. 

I don't personally thing that Tina being a BC and LI is a done deal, but to completely ignore the possibility of it happening and to tell people they are wrong and ridiculous to think it might is also a bit rude IMO. 

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Yup. And it's honestly not restricted to her character, there's a lot of this going around.

It goes in several directions. It's considered problematic to be other than 100% convinced that Olicity will reunite, too. 

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I think a lot of people forget about the "speculation" part of this thread. We only have so many spoilers to go off of and half the fun is speculating what will happen. Based off what we have from the slides, and that the name of the character is correct, it seems pretty damn okay to speculate that the rest of the slides would be correct and that Tina would be the NuBC and a LI. 

That's fine, but then I can also use my logic (sides have been differently labeled before like for Nyssa, sides/character description never mentioned her becoming BC, questioning the logic behind trying to establish a new LI for the main character by 511 for what, 515? 523? s6?) for speculation as well. Don't get me wrong, I do think that she's heading towards BC for the season finale with some of the spoilers we've got (this renewed focus on Laurel and her deathbed promise, JH with the rest of the team, the reddit spoilers saying that she has the canary cry), and I do think that the rest of the season can only go 2 ways with regarding the love interest subplot for Oliver (either Tina or reestablishing Olicity), but questioning speculation I don't think is too outrageous. 

Although by "questioning," I just mean clarification, which has just been my problem with some of the spec about Tina. Like, "Tina is NuBC" Okay, when? I get the logic behind believing it in general but then when I'm trying to think about execution I come up short (why would she care about vigilantes if she doesn't like them? Why would she care about the deathbed promise of someone she never met? If she just develops out of these differences, then where would this character even go beyond just being part of Oliver's promise to Laurel? And when would this even happen?). Or "Tina is a new LI." Okay, when? Again, I get the logic behind believing it in general but again execution for me comes up short (meeting her in 511 and then following the hook-up plan that Arrow's been doing for years in 515ish even after only knowing her for 4 eps? Or maybe just establish her as LI in 515 and then continue on for the rest of the season even though the audience hasn't even met her yet and won't until we're filming 516 and brainstorming the final 3 episodes? Or just we'll just do it in s6 even though these Olicity fans are not going away because we set up a 3 year romantic subplot or something like that?)

Idk, playing devil's advocate for some theories even if they end up being right has been part of the fun for me. Even debating about Felicity's bf I didn't think was out of the question because there was a bunch of lack of information there besides the fact that she had one which brings on the questions of when? how? for how long? how big of a deal? why aren't they being clear? where the main answer was really "because the writers wanted it to be their premiere twist and SA decided to ruin it because...funny?" 

[Cleanqueen]

20 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

511 ends (from the Reddit spoilers that seem to be confirmed by the previews) on what is almost certainly Tina with a Canary Cry. I get that some people think it's LL, but since paps have reported that KC's not been filming, that seems really really unlikely to me. So the NuBC part just doesn't seem to be in any real doubt at this point.

You mean 5x10...KC is in 5x10. And since the spoiler said the sonic scream is like the one black siren uses then there is a high chance that it is Black Siren escaping at the end of the episode. She still has an episode of the flash and LOT to do and we know shes doing the flash as Black Siren.

5x11 is when we meet Tina.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't see them having any difficulty establishing Tina as BC in a few eps. I think the "doesn't like vigilantes" plot point will last maybe an episode. She'll already be a good fighter and she already (apparently) has the Canary Cry. The way this show moves it is entirely possible that she's part of the team by the end of 511 (which is also part of why I think Olicity could reunite this season, bc they could easily pull a 323 with no setup at any moment, but also Oliver can still date Tina..hell he could finish up with the reporter, date Tina, AND reunite with Felicity all in maybe four episodes). Felicity literally got dumped by Ray AND slept with Oliver in the very same episode, even with everything else going on in that episode. 

Devil's advocate debating is, IMO, great. Debating is fun and several times people here have really helped me understand things about this show. It's more that some ppl seem genuinely against anyone discussing various possibilities. 

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I don't see them having any difficulty establishing Tina as BC in a few eps. I think the "doesn't like vigilantes" plot point will last maybe an episode. She'll already be a good fighter and she already (apparently) has the Canary Cry. The way this show moves it is entirely possible that she's part of the team by the end of 511 (which is also part of why I think Olicity could reunite this season, bc they could easily pull a 323 with no setup at any moment, but also Oliver can still date Tina..hell he could finish up with the reporter, date Tina, AND reunite with Felicity all in maybe four episodes). Felicity literally got dumped by Ray AND slept with Oliver in the very same episode, even with everything else going on in that episode. 

Yeah, I can see that, since I'm kind of going with that they're going to do a s2 re-do with some big moment *surprise* at the end that's kind of rushed in a la 323. Idk my biggest problem is that Tina is being introduced at such an awkward time right in the middle of the season. Too early and too potentially prominent to be a last-minute shake-up character and too late to be following the patterns that Arrow usually follow. The last time they did something like this I think was Roy back in s1 (which, now this kind of makes sense...s1), but even then he didn't fully join the team or date the main character or get as integrated as Tina potentially might be (but, then again, part of me just thinks that she's not going to be as big of a deal as we're making her). Maybe it will just be rushed and awkward, which will then make me ultimately wonder if they were strong-armed to add her like they were Roy.

[insomniadreams88]

I think the pacing is a big problem with Arrow - and has been for a while. If they wanted to fix something this season, they should have focused on that.

I feel like they're stretching out Prometheus too much, a problem I had with the beginning of the season as well. Oliver didn't even know he should be worried about him until 505 when Church told him. Do we even know what Prometheus' play is going to be in 5B? I don't think we have any idea. We still don't even know if Prometheus is who they think he is based on 509.

Is Evelyn still going to be working for Prometheus or disappear because her betrayal has been revealed? Are they even going to try to explain her choosing to work for him beyond what they have on-screen and in interviews? (I don't want more time spent on that than necessary, but I think they need to do something.) 

And now with bringing in Tina - as a new BC, a mask with some other name, a LI, hell even a detective (I wonder if we'll even see her as a detective more than once or twice as a reminder that she is one) - either they'll end up spending too much time on establishing her or too little. 

[statsgirl]

It wouldn't surprise me if JH is in the diner scene.  The boys go on a road trip to find her after all, maybe they're taking her out for burger and fries to talk her into going back with them.  The post Christmas episodes of 10 - 12 have usually revolved around Laurel/BC.

@MaisyDaisy, that comment is brilliant.

56 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

TBH, I didn't really like Curtis/Felicity's dynamic in S4--or at least not when they were acting like boss/employee, because I thought they were both just kind of...unnecessarily snotty to each other. But I did/do like them as friends, and people who think similarly. I just think it would serve the show better to distinguish between their specific skills, and show them being supportive of each other in those areas rather than being kind of competitive/one-upping like they do sometimes.

I also agree that if they intend Tina to be a part of the team for longer than this half-season, some chemistry testing with the core cast would have been a good idea, regardless of their intentions for her as an LI. OTOH, I'm not sure what they did with RG, and it does feel like they have longer-term plans for him. But I don't think a lack of chemistry with the cast is my problem with WD. I think RG is good at being "engaged" in his scenes--he's not just waiting to say his lines like some other actors who have appeared on this show, ahem. I just don't like his character much, and I really don't like the amount of focus he's getting for someone who hasn't proved worthy of it.

I didn't mind Curtis and Felicity as boss/employee because I thought the scenes showed how socially awkward they both are.  Actually, I liked then a whole lot more last season than I do this one where Felicity is less than competent so Curtis can take over her jobs because they don't know what else to do with him and being snotty to Oliver as WD's and Evelyn's attitudes rub off on him.  I( want them to go back to writing Curtis the way he was last year but that damn mask heritage is stopping them.

My problem with Rick Gonzales is that his "I'm the new Oliver Queen/Green Arrow" attitude is coming through in Rene and it's annoying me greatly.  Personally, I value intelligence, empathy and wanting to help others over the ability to do the salmon ladder so Felicity and Roy >>>>>>>>>> Wild Dog for me.  And his hitting on Thea and calling Felicity Blondie just makes me like him even less.  (I wonder if they're going any polling on the character given his reception.)

[insomniadreams88]

52 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Idk, playing devil's advocate for some theories even if they end up being right has been part of the fun for me. Even debating about Felicity's bf I didn't think was out of the question because there was a bunch of lack of information there besides the fact that she had one which brings on the questions of when? how? for how long? how big of a deal? why aren't they being clear? where the main answer was really "because the writers wanted it to be their premiere twist and SA decided to ruin it because...funny?" 

This bothered me so much. We have no idea how Felicity even met Billy and they don't seem to think that's important enough information to tell us. We don't know how long they were dating. We know that he apparently had a key to the loft (or Felicity just never locked it because she figured people just broke in through the windows anyway?). Even though we met him in 501, by 509, she still had problems calling him her boyfriend and saying his name. At the end of the day, Billy (and TR) deserved better because he'll probably get a couple of mentions in 5B, if that. I wonder if the writers simply looked at it as, "we need to have Felicity not deal with Havenrock in 5A, so what could we have happen to her that could be a distraction and then serve as a gateway to her 5B arc? Hmm, new boyfriend is killed by Oliver because of Prometheus. Perfect!" 

Yet, they seem to be taking the time to establish Susan as Oliver's GF, to what? Make a possible betrayal hurt more? (The problem there is no one likes her, and I wonder if they regret having her introduction be vs. Thea now that they look back at it. Probably not. But they maybe should.) 

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think the pacing is a big problem with Arrow - and has been for a while. If they wanted to fix something this season, they should have focused on that.

I feel like they're stretching out Prometheus too much, a problem I had with the beginning of the season as well. Oliver didn't even know he should be worried about him until 505 when Church told him. Do we even know what Prometheus' play is going to be in 5B? I don't think we have any idea. We still don't even know if Prometheus is who they think he is based on 509.

I could deal with Prometheus better if something was actually being done with the Vigilante. As is, we had a police sketch at the beginning of the season, pretty lame show down in 507 and seemingly nothing. At least Prometheus plays some role in 510, what with BS and all. Even if they' re not using these guys on screen, they need to establish them being present in the city and that actually being important.