NFL Thread

[Cherry Bomb]

9 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

Their schedule is tough and I don't think they will be as dominant, but I think that the Cowboys would be okay without him. (Though I do think that he Zeke will more than likely appeal his suspension.) I think that their running back group, their O-line and Dak are enough to help them hang on in Zeke's absence. Maybe Rod Smith will be able to help out with the run game as well. I like what I have seen from him in preseason so far, maybe he will keep that type of play up.

Even if his appeal doesn't get the amount reduced which it probably will I still think the Cowboys have the inside track to win the division easily. The Giants might give them a close run, but I think the Cowboys should still win it.

[merylinkid]

6 games is the League minimum under the DV policy.   Except Goodell usually finds "mitigating" factors to reduce it.   This is solely he is sick of getting raked over the coals for reducing.    Plus Elliott did not help himself with the New Orleans incident, the bar incident, the speeding ticket.   

 

As an attorney who works with DV victims, I am overjoyed.   As a Cowboys fan, I am devastated about our season.    But they knew who they were drafting.   They knew the investigation was going on.    It's a mess.

[lam48]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Which is the problem anymore with all these debates, going all the way back to the Saints scandal.   you really cant trust any of them and what they say.  Not Goodell, not the owners, not the players.  I think they all lie and, really, they all kind of deserve each other. 

Can't entirely trust the accuser either. There is actual evidence, (an affidavit and texts) that she lied about at least one of these incidents where she said Zeke abused her. She got into a fight with another girl and her own friend, said the ex girlfriend wanted her to lie about Elliot abusing her. Everybody has a fishy smell in this ordeal.

Elliot reminds me some of Manziel. Innocent or Guilty he does a lot of stupid stuff that hurts him. Even if he's innocent of the DV, he didn't help himself when he pulled down that lady's top at the ST. Patrick's day event and other stupid things he's done.. He keeps playing with fire, and now he may end up being burned by it. 

Goodell overstepped with the punishment, especially given the evidence about the ex-girlfriend lying. Goodell is still trying to make up for completely botching the Ray Rice situation. 

Like Jones, but he needs to get better control of his players.  You can field an O-line with all of the players from the Cowboys that are being suspended.

Elliot needs to appeal and maybe they can get the suspension down to like 4 games. I wouldn't mind if he got like 2, due to the evidence of the girlfriend lying. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by lam48

[Cherry Bomb]

These cases for the most part it comes down to what one person says against what the other person says. The problem here is like you said Zeke has done some pretty stupid stuff in his past that has made him look bad. Guilty or Innocent he is going to get some suspension for this. Will it be 6 games or reduced I don't really know. You look at a player like Ray Rice who was charged with DV and his incident was on video(at least part of it) and he hasn't played a down since and probably never will. His girlfriend has reconciled with him and Rice has apologized for his actions and has even spoken on DV many times. Yet he will not be touched by any teams. So 6 games seems like nothing when you really think about it. Then you also look at a different sort of case with Michael Vick and with cruelty to animals. He served his time and he came back into the league. There really isn't any connection with it all. It seems like if the player is needed then he will be signed no matter what(with exception of Aaron Hernandez of course). Then there is the case of Kap., I guarantee you if he was a Top 10 QB that was kneeling during the National Anthem you would be damn sure he would still be on a roster.

[lam48]

21 minutes ago, Cherry Bomb said:

These cases for the most part it comes down to what one person says against what the other person says. The problem here is like you said Zeke has done some pretty stupid stuff in his past that has made him look bad. Guilty or Innocent he is going to get some suspension for this. Will it be 6 games or reduced I don't really know. You look at a player like Ray Rice who was charged with DV and his incident was on video(at least part of it) and he hasn't played a down since and probably never will. His girlfriend has reconciled with him and Rice has apologized for his actions and has even spoken on DV many times. Yet he will not be touched by any teams. So 6 games seems like nothing when you really think about it. Then you also look at a different sort of case with Michael Vick and with cruelty to animals. He served his time and he came back into the league. There really isn't any connection with it all. It seems like if the player is needed then he will be signed no matter what(with exception of Aaron Hernandez of course). Then there is the case of Kap., I guarantee you if he was a Top 10 QB that was kneeling during the National Anthem you would be damn sure he would still be on a roster.

Yeah, I think Elliot will probably end up serving a suspension. Maybe it will be like 4 games, though I honestly wouldn't mind if it were reduced to two. Elliot does do a lot idiotic stuff that is a poor reflection of the league like pulling down the woman's top in public on St Patrick's day. If they want to suspend him for that and finding himself in bad situations like the club fight, then I'd be okay with that. I'm okay with them saying those types of things are conduct detrimental to the league. Maybe that would serve as a wake up call for him to grow up and stop making dumb decisions.

I do think that the 6 games is too much given that it was discovered that his ex-girlfriend was lying about at least one of the incidents that she said Elliot abused her. Her own friend said she was got into a fight with another girl outside of a bar and that she tried to concoct a story with the friend to blame Elliot. I believe this is a big reason why he wasn't arrested after she reported being abused.

I don't like how the media doesn't present all sides or as much as they can of each side of a story when it comes to issues like this. They usually paint it one way (usually against the player) and I think that's wrong. Tell the whole truth or as much of it as possible so people can get a clearer picture of what's going on. If the girl lied about at least one of the incidents, (Which she did), then they should say she did. They can report that news in a way that is factual and straightforward. just like they can report the incidents that people know Ezekiel is guilty of as factual. They need to tell the truth and stop trying to skewer things/ leave important information out. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by lam48

[Cherry Bomb]

10 minutes ago, lam48 said:

Yeah, I think Elliot will probably end up serving a suspension. Maybe it will be like 4 games, though I honestly wouldn't mind if it were reduced to two. Elliot does do a lot idiotic stuff that is a poor reflection of the league like pulling down the woman's top in public on St Patrick's day. If they want to suspend him for that and finding himself in bad situations like the club fight, then I'd be okay with that. I'm okay with them saying those types of things are conduct detrimental to the league. Maybe that would serve as a wake up call for him to grow up and stop making dumb decisions.

I do think that the 6 games is too much given that it was discovered that his ex-girlfriend was lying about at least one of the incidents that she said Elliot abused her. Her own friend said she was got into a fight with another girl outside of a bar and that she tried to concoct a story with the friend to blame Elliot. I believe this is a big reason why he wasn't arrested after she reported being abused.

I don't like how the media doesn't present all sides or as much as they can of each side of a story when it comes to issues like this. They usually paint it one way (usually against the player) and I think that's wrong. Tell the whole truth or as much of it as possible so people can get a clearer picture of what's going on. If the girl lied about at least one of the incidents, (Which she did), then they should say she did. They can report that news in a way that is factual and straightforward. just like they can report the incidents that people know Ezekiel is guilty of as factual. They need to tell the truth and stop trying to skewer things/ leave important information out. 

I agree that the media stirs the pot usually one way and that is wrong, but in the Ray Rice incident it was brought out that both were drinking and she spit in his face. Now don't get me wrong that does not allow someone to put there hands or hit anyone and then drag them across the floor at all. What I am say with the whole Ray Rice incident is the penalty was way too much and it hurt him from ever coming back for any team in the future even when his girlfriend reconciled with him and he apologized and did community service. Like I said the length of his time off and his recent down years with injuries left him to be expendable by the NFL. Not the case for Zeke at all. He is young and in his prime and got charged with pretty much the same thing as Rice and he will be suited up and playing again for the Cowboys after 6 games at the longest. It just isn't right.

[DrSpaceman73]

I have little doubt that this will once again result in a long drawn out legal process for the league 

I honestly have not read that much about the specifics of Elliot's case.  I just tire of these constant battles and hearing about the fights of millionaires and billionaires over cheating and legal violations. 

Both sides just need to agree come up with a better system at the next CBA negotiations

[mojoween]

The problem I have with the six games, because I don't really care about the Cowboys, is that Josh Brown got one game before the Giants smartened up and canned him.

In other news, I'm so excited to watch real football tonight.

Edited August 12, 2017 by mojoween

[Jx223]

It is being reported on NFL network, Ryan Tannehill has decided to have season ending ACL surgery. 

Edited August 12, 2017 by Jx223

[Cherry Bomb]

15 hours ago, Jx223 said:

It is being reported on NFL network, Ryan Tannehill has decided to have season ending ACL surgery. 

Yes, I believe he is out for the season according to CBS Sports.

[twoods]

Even if the Rams suck this season, I can enjoy staring at their head coach on TV. He is freaking hot! 

Enough about my shallowness, now Lynch is going to be the new pariah for sitting during the national anthem. Not big news, yet now the media will keep talking about it since Colin hasn't been picked up. 

[merylinkid]

6 hours ago, twoods said:

Even if the Rams suck this season, I can enjoy staring at their head coach on TV. He is freaking hot! 

My SO said he looked young, and then said what is he 40?   I said, "Oh honey, try 30s."   So I looked it up.    The guy was born in 1986!!!!    Then I saw that he is the grandson of the GM for the 49ers during their Super Bowl years in the 80s.   To which my SO said "So when he was born."    UGH.   

[DrSpaceman73]

Youngest head coach in league history, 31. 

[Cherry Bomb]

As for the whole Marshawn Lynch sitting for the National Anthem I hope the media keeps it more or the down low a lot more than they did with Kap when he first did it. This whole thing has been played out and discussed over and over again and what new information will be brought out from the media attacking Lynch or the NFL? All it would really do would stir up fans and possible riots again after it was sort of settling down. Let the media cover the NFL with NFL Stories and not really political stories that just stir up stuff.

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, Cherry Bomb said:

As for the whole Marshawn Lynch sitting for the National Anthem I hope the media keeps it more or the down low a lot more than they did with Kap when he first did it. This whole thing has been played out and discussed over and over again and what new information will be brought out from the media attacking Lynch or the NFL? All it would really do would stir up fans and possible riots again after it was sort of settling down. Let the media cover the NFL with NFL Stories and not really political stories that just stir up stuff.

To anyone who knows anything about Lynch, this just isn't a thing.  He's ALWAYS sat during the national anthem, so it wasn't even a Kaeppernick-level protest event; it's just what he does and has always done.  The media, of course, is making it A Thing because we don't have enough racists slinging their hateful shit around all day every day right now, so why the hell not.

[Cherry Bomb]

8 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

To anyone who knows anything about Lynch, this just isn't a thing.  He's ALWAYS sat during the national anthem, so it wasn't even a Kaeppernick-level protest event; it's just what he does and has always done.  The media, of course, is making it A Thing because we don't have enough racists slinging their hateful shit around all day every day right now, so why the hell not.

For one let me put this out there I am one not promoting the right for any player to sit, kneel, lay down or whatever during the National Anthem. For me I would always respect the Anthem and stand, but I am not Lynch or Kap or whoever else decides to do this during the anthem. It is there right to do whatever they damn well please, but for the media to just stir the pot on something that was actually on the down low is ridiculous. There are major issues happening in the NFL as it is the start of the pre-season right now. Players getting cut, traded, games being played, and injuries. So why bring this shit up again?

[Popples]

12 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

To anyone who knows anything about Lynch, this just isn't a thing.  He's ALWAYS sat during the national anthem, so it wasn't even a Kaeppernick-level protest event; it's just what he does and has always done.  The media, of course, is making it A Thing because we don't have enough racists slinging their hateful shit around all day every day right now, so why the hell not.

His former teammate Seahawks DE Michael Bennett sat for the national anthem due to Charlottesville.

[Bastet]

I've usually stayed seated for the anthem at games for some time now; I don't think it has any place being played there, has always been my "we do this why?" objection, and I feel that when played in such venues it has long since been co-opted into something honoring only a narrow slice of America, and I very much do not pledge allegiance to that idea.  These days?  Hell yes, my ass will stay in the seat, always.  And it's sad that I could be in danger because of that.

So I obviously have an affinity with the players who choose to do the same, but I believe I'd be upset about the unhinged vitriol and endless media dissection regardless.

At any rate, here's Bennett's statement:
 

Quote

 

With everything that's been going on the last couple of months, and especially after the last couple of days seeing what's going on in Virginia, and earlier today in Seattle, I just wanted to be able to use my platform to be able to continuously speak on injustice.

First of all, I want to make sure people understand I love the military — my father was in the military.  I love hot dogs like any other American. I love football like any other American. But I don’t love segregation, I don’t love riots, I don’t love oppression. I don’t love gender slander.

I just want to see people have the equality that they deserve, and I want to be able to use this platform to continuously push that message.  And keep finding out how unselfish we can be in society, how we can continuously love one another and understand that people are different. And just because people are different doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t like them. Just because they don’t eat what you eat, just because they don’t pray to the same god you pray to doesn’t mean you should hate them. Whether it is Muslim, whether it is Buddhist, whether it is Christianity, I just want people to understand that no matter what, we need to stay together. It’s more about being a human being at this point.

 

[ganesh]

I don't think anyone should have a problem with that statement. It's about 4 million times more eloquent and thoughtful than the gibberish the president spouted on the weekend. 

The anthem is played so much so many places that it's since lost most of its meaning, if not any meaning. We need to hear it during game 13 of the Titans and Jets?

I hope more players speak up and more sit or kneel. The anthem has long been used as a political statement by the NFL, who has taken money from the military, so it's just as fair if players want to use that time for a political statement as well. 

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've usually stayed seated for the anthem at games for some time now; I don't think it has any place being played there, has always been my "we do this why?" objection, and I feel that when played in such venues it has long since been co-opted into something honoring only a narrow slice of America, and I very much do not pledge allegiance to that idea.  These days?  Hell yes, my ass will stay in the seat, always.  And it's sad that I could be in danger because of that.

That's an interesting perspective on why you choose to stay seated for the anthem, and I do respect your decision to do so.  However, as a black person, especially during these times, I'm actually more determined to stand for the anthem because I want everyone to know that this is my country--the good and the bad of it--and I belong here as much as anyone else.  And I'm not ashamed of that.  

[Cherry Bomb]

I choose to stand because basically when it comes down to it, I have the right to do so. I don't disrespect the people who don't stand because they choose not to stand as it is there right as well. The way I look at it is, I am a young woman and I could have been born in a country where there look at women as an object without many rights at all or even no rights. So why not stand for something that is suppose to honor of country. Yeah, our country in my opinion still has some things to work on for equality for damn sure in many areas and it may not even be in my lifetime that I see this happen, but I have seen some growth and also some setbacks. The thing is if I was in one of those other countries there would be no opportunity for growth as there are no opportunities for certain people. 

[Silver Raven]

As a veteran (although I did not serve in combat), I think that the statement that says "People died for your right not to stand for the anthem" is tone-deaf.  You are exactly right, even though you don't understand how right you are.  If they hadn't fought for that right, the people who are not standing for the anthem would not have that right.  The people who criticize the people who don't stand are demeaning the deaths, not the people who are not standing.

[xaxat]

An organization that had the balls to ask for payment for "honoring" veterans should be careful about criticizing the patriotism of others.

[Silver Raven]

538 is talking about just how bad the Jets are.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-jets-are-bad-but-are-they-0-16-bad/?ex_cid=SigDig

[Silver Raven]

The Falcons have a Chic Fil a stand in their stadium, but since Chic Fil a stores are closed on Sundays, it will only be open for the one Thursday game the Falcons are hosting.

[mojoween]

That is a very curious choice of vendor, with such limited availability.

[ganesh]

I would think the stadium is used for other events though. Football is only 8 dates per year.

[Ohwell]

Yeah they'll have soccer, concerts, corporate events there.

[mojoween]

True.  I often forget that on the grand scheme of things Syracuse is a teeny little blip on earth compared to a real city.  The Carrier Dome isn't used for much other than football and basketball during the year.  

[mojoween]

The question I never see asked when the media speaks with fans who say they disagree with athletes not standing for the anthem is two parts - a. How does Michael Bennett sitting down in San Diego affect your life and b. Do your feelings about that form of protest somehow negate his feelings about it?

I am personally tired of talking about it because I'm tired of the backlash against athletes who are trying to have a voice.  And also the media is not bringing anything new to the conversation.

[BitterApple]

If the media is going to spend the entire season rehashing Kaepernick and making Lynch the new poster boy for the anthem protest, I am so done. At this point I don't care what these athletes do, I just don't want politics shoved down my throat when I'm trying to watch a football game. There's plenty of talking heads on cable news networks who I can watch if I'm so inclined. I want the sports announcers to stick to sports.

[ganesh]

Sports and politics have been intertwined for a long time, and in the current climate it's not going to change. Athletes get to have a say in society too. 

[Silver Raven]

NFLPA says a work stoppage is an almost certainty.

http://deadspin.com/nflpa-head-future-work-stoppage-almost-a-virtual-cert-1797944121?

[merylinkid]

7 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

NFLPA says a work stoppage is an almost certainty.

http://deadspin.com/nflpa-head-future-work-stoppage-almost-a-virtual-cert-1797944121?

You hire a litigator as the director of the players' union and you have a commish who was trained as a lawyer, you are going to get messes like this.   NO ONE wins when there is a work stoppage.   Yes, Goodell's power needs to be cut, but a strike/lockout will not achieve it.

[Ohwell]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

Sports and politics have been intertwined for a long time, and in the current climate it's not going to change. Athletes get to have a say in society too. 

Of course athletes get to have a say, but that doesn't mean that the media has to cover their every word or action.

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't mind athletes being political or making statements.  There is a long history of that, with positive results.  Sports has been a huge force in many ways in helping end segregation and to move African americans in particular to a more equal status in this country, as imperfect as it still is now

I agree though I get sick of the media coverage of this.  I mentioned it before.  I don't care that they cover it, its that this is one of the ONLY things they seem to cover, over and over and over again, without adding anything new or original on it for a year now.  They get stuck on a topic and won't let it go. 

This is what turns many people off about ESPN.  They no longer really cover primarily sports, but instead the politics and entertainment around sports.  If you want that, fine.  Tune in.  Some people obviously do or else they wouldn't get the ratings and they would stop doing it.  But I for one tune into sports as an outlet to forget about the day to day political drivel and insanity you hear everywhere else.  And I am not singling out any particular group or any particular newstation with that statement, they all do it.  They all exist anymore to make people angry or elicit emotional rather than rational and productive responses.  I don't need that from my sports coverage as well, but that is what ESPN in particular has become. 

Some will degrade those who like fantasy football as middle aged armchair QBs, nerdy guys who can't play any longer and looking for some glory still.  Maybe, but you know what you rarely ever hear on fantasy football talk?  Anyone bringing up COlin Kaepernick and if he is kneeling or sitting or standing or lying or if he SHOULD be on this or that team.  No one care what these guys do during the national anthem.  Now E. Elliot is brought up, but there is no endless talk about Goodell and Jerry Jones and his GF and if she lied or whatever.  Its "will he be on the field or not, the end".  Its ACTAUL Xs and Os football talk on the fantasy channels.  Team by team.  Not just Pitt and Dallas and NE all the time.  That makes up a huge minority of what ESPN actually discusses anymore. 

Its ironic if you want to hear actual football discussions, you get 5-10x as much on any "fantasy" show than on ESPN. 

[twoods]

I wish Boldin the best. I was looking forward to him in a Bills jersey this season but he can do so much good in the community. Good for him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/20/anquan-boldin-leaves-bills-camp-says-hes-retiring/

[Cherry Bomb]

On 8/21/2017 at 0:36 AM, twoods said:

I wish Boldin the best. I was looking forward to him in a Bills jersey this season but he can do so much good in the community. Good for him.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/20/anquan-boldin-leaves-bills-camp-says-hes-retiring/

Anquan Boldin is a class act. When he was with the Ravens he was a team leader on and off the field. I wish him all the luck in the world on his retirement.

[xaxat]

On 8/18/2017 at 7:39 AM, merylinkid said:

You hire a litigator as the director of the players' union and you have a commish who was trained as a lawyer, you are going to get messes like this.   NO ONE wins when there is a work stoppage.   Yes, Goodell's power needs to be cut, but a strike/lockout will not achieve it.

The owners routinely win.  The NFL owners did in the last stoppage and that's why all of the work stoppages in all the major sports since 1995 (MLB) have been owner initiated lockouts.

Owners operate on a different time scale than the players and are willing to take short term pain in order to increase negotiating leverage for long term advantage. And the NHL proved that fans will return.

[merylinkid]

Historically in the NFL/NFLPA it's the players that win in court.   They had true free agency via court ruling in 1975.   They gave it back in the next negotiations.   Then complained for 20 years about not having it.   If a court ever got a good look at how the NFL is run, the players would have a lot more than they have now.   

[Cherry Bomb]

Really the people that lose in these things if they go to a lockout is the fans. The thing is when it gets that far gone both the owners and the player reps don't really give a damn how it is affecting the fans. The problem is like stated above the fans are die hard and always come back so the leverage is with the owners and players. If just one time the fans sat out and didn't show up to 8 games and buy the overpriced concessions then maybe the owners and players might think more when it comes to these situations.

[mojoween]

Am I crazy for thinking that Jerry Kramer should have already been in the HOF?

[Bastet]

Seth DeValve's wife (who is black) wrote a great piece pushing back against the media attention painting him as "some sort of white savior to a movement that was started and has been carried on by black football players for about a year now."  It's well worth a read; here's an excerpt:
 

Quote

 

I am grateful for the widespread support and praise that Seth is getting for his actions, but I would like to offer a humble reminder that a man—a black man—literally lost his job for taking a knee, week after week, on his own. Colin Kaepernick bravely took a step and began a movement throughout the NFL, and he suffered a ridiculous amount of hate and threats and ultimately lost his life’s work in the sport he loves.

We should not see Seth’s participation as legitimizing this movement. Rather, he chose to be an ally of his black teammates. To center the focus of Monday’s demonstration solely on Seth is to distract from what our real focus should be: listening to the experiences and the voices of the black people who are using their platforms to continue to bring the issue of racism in the U.S. to the forefront. Seth, as a white individual, never has and never will truly have to feel the weight and burden of racial discrimination and racial oppression. No white person does or will. But all white people should care and take a stand against its prevalence in this country.

 

[twoods]

That was probably one of the best and most uplifting articles that I've ever read. It's good to know that there are decent people in this world who are trying to combat the hatred.

I also liked seeing all the people that were outside NFL's HQ yesterday for Kap. 

[voiceover]

On 8/15/2017 at 7:18 AM, ganesh said:

The anthem is played so much so many places that it's since lost most of its meaning, if not any meaning. 

Wish you'd ended that with "for me".  Because I still find it extraordinarily meaningful.  I'm not going to speak for anyone else, because that's not my job.  But I'm fairly certain I am not the only one who feels this way.

[BitterApple]

Colin made a choice. He chose to bring politics into the workplace and teams opted not to deal with the distraction. He has nobody to blame for his job loss but himself. Not to mention he walked away from his contract in San Francisco and wanted too much money to be a backup. It's not simply the protesting that led to him being out of a job. 

[ganesh]

I thought the "for me" would be inherent in a message board where people post their opinions and not fact-checked journal articles. Playing the anthem for every single thing is a case where we're doing something this way because we always have. At least that people remember because we didn't always play the anthem. I'm sure we're not so fragile a country that we can go one day without hearing it. Maybe then we'd all appreciate it more if it were only special occasions.

Edited August 25, 2017 by ganesh

[merylinkid]

9 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Colin made a choice. He chose to bring politics into the workplace and teams opted not to deal with the distraction. He has nobody to blame for his job loss but himself. Not to mention he walked away from his contract in San Francisco and wanted too much money to be a backup. It's not simply the protesting that led to him being out of a job. 

Except just last night, Chris Long, who has joined the protests, got lauded for his extraordinary play.   No mention that he is part of the protests.   So I guess it's only a distraction if the narrative says it is.   Or you are not white  (Chris Long is white).

 

That said, watching Carson Wentz play last night, I groaned.    God, my Boys have to meet him twice a year.    WHY?????

[ganesh]

It may not be that just protesting that led him to be out of a job, but it's sure is the reason now. 

[Jx223]

According to Ian Rapoport on Twitter, it is believed that Julian Edelrman suffered a torn ACL from tonight's game. He will get an official MRI tomorrow. I wish Julian a healthy recovery.

Also Spencer Ware was injured tonight, I hope his injury doesn't end up being very serious and that he recovers well.