Rumplestiltskin: Apparently He's Part of Every Fairy Tale Ever

[Curio]

It's okay if Rumple never changes because he's "family." On this show, being family means getting to be a douche to all your relatives and they'll always begrudgingly forgive you because that's what family does. 

[Camera One]

Not just a "douche".  Try to kill you... multiple times.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Not just a "douche".  Try to kill you... multiple times.

No one seems to care that he was contemplating the murder of Henry. Actually... did anyone besides Rumple ever find out about "the boy will be your undoing"?

 

In 3B, Rumple announces to everyone that he's going to take revenge on Zelena. Then Regina stops him with the Dagger, and late he promises to Belle he won't kill Zelena. Next morning... she turns up dead. I find it odd that no one thought Rumple would have tampered with the beta tapes. To this day, no one has figured out he did it. (Much like Regina with Graham.)

Edited February 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

 

It's okay if Rumple never changes because he's "family." On this show, being family means getting to be a douche to all your relatives and they'll always begrudgingly forgive you because that's what family does.

 

Not gonna lie. If someone in my family tried to kill me multiple times, I wouldn't be hanging out with them. Ever. It's not about forgiveness, it's about safety. Forgiveness is for the health of the victims, not the villain. It's not healthy to hold all that anger and seek revenge (see: Captain Hook), so you forgive the person and let go of it all. However, that doesn't mean you continue to have a relationship with that person or you think he doesn't deserve justice. You ever notice that when there's an atrocity committed somewhere that there is often a message from the victims' families about forgiveness? Do you also notice that they aren't saying awww, the perpetrator is just misunderstood and he's family, so let's just let him go? Forgiveness is wonderful, but it doesn't mean that you don't expect some form of punishment for the villain. Rumpel continually abuses his family and they all just stand around and take it because he's family. That's not okay. It's a terrible message to send. 

[Shanna Marie]

I guess Rumple has learned a couple of important lessons, namely that no matter what he does, it won't stop Belle from thinking he has a good heart, and that no matter what he does or who he hurts, he'll get a mostly free pass because Henry shares some of his DNA.

 

Even if you remove the murder/attempted murder aspects of Rumple's behavior and just go with the "addict" part, I'm not going to let my kid anywhere near a grandfather who's such an addict that he's proven he'll do anything for a fix, no matter who gets hurt. He's not going to be welcome in my home. He's had more than a few second chances. After the first time of tearful sorrow, only to backslide again, the tears aren't going to work anymore, and he's going to not only have to make it all the way through rehab but also stay clean for a while outside rehab before we start restoring relations, and a while after that before he gets anywhere near my kid.

 

I guess these people have never heard of tough love and the idea of putting the ball in Rumple's court -- if you want to be anywhere near your grandson, get your act together -- rather than enabling him.

[KingOfHearts]

Mr. Gold has been very subdued lately. Even S1 Mr. Gold chewed the scenery more. It's almost like he whispers everything he says now. Is Robert Carlyle just bringing a lack of energy to the role? How does Rumple go to that from Sparkly Imp?

[Mathius]

That has been going on for a while now.  As much as we make fun of it, the "when the stars align, I'll cleave myself from the dagger" plot from 4A was the last time Robert Carlyle seemed to really be enjoying himself and chewing scenery as Gold (just watch the scene where he tears out Hook's heart...the man is having a ball in that one!)  In 4B, 5A, and now 5B, he lacks the energy he once brought to the role.  Interestingly enough, he was not lacking energy as clippy Rumple in 5A. So now I think that Gold should be killed off, and Robert only kept in a recurring role as imp Rumple in flashbacks.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Mathius

[Camera One]

I haven't really noticed anything, though I wouldn't be surprised given the material. I guess in 5A, the present-day scenes mostly consisted of him acting like a coward/hero, so there hasn't been much Mr. Gold. I'm not sure the actor would continue on without a full-time job, since he would be in limbo... not able to commit to new projects while needing to stick around, and it would be harder for the Writers to write without knowing when he's available. However, I have read some casual fans (who are viewers of another show I watch) expressing disinterest in 5B so far since we have seen so little of Rumple (and this last episode in particular since Rumple didn't show up at all).

[orza]

For pretty much all of seasons 3 and 4 Robert Carlyle was working two jobs. He was involved in the script writing, the usual preproduction and doing directorial prep work for his movie during season 3 and during season 4 spent every free moment he wasn't working on the show editing his movie to meet the premier deadline, as he said in some interviews. Maybe the man is tired.

 

Also, his portrayal of Gold since 3B reflects a person who went through a great deal of trauma and tragedy. Even bad people feel the intense pain of losing a child and suffer the aftereffects of abuse and near death experiences. I would expect a person who has gone through all that to be subdued, apathetic and closed off, That would a reasonable interpretation of the character at this stage in his life. RC is too much of a professional to let his personal feelings about a job creep into his onscreen performance.

[Curio]

I think Carlyle still brings it 100% when he plays sparkly Rumple, but I can see where he might be going on autopilot with Mr. Gold. Maybe part of the reason it seems like he "phones in" some of his Mr. Gold appearances is because of the total night and day between the types of acting that's allowed on the show. Usually, a show sets an overall dramatic or comedic tone that all of the actors tend to follow, so all the performances seem more cohesive. But on this show, you have scenery chewers, subtle and honest performances, and bland performances all competing against each other for equal importance. And then within the scenery chewers, you also have a wide range inside that group of performances, ranging from Carlyle's manic yet fascinating sparkly Rumple, Parrilla's soap opera-auditioning Evil Queen, and Mader's always-dialed-up-to-eleven Zelena. So when you look at the more subdued performance Carlyle gives Mr. Gold, in comparison to his scenery-chewing alter ego, it could come off as boring or like the actor is disinterested. It's the same critique Morrison sometimes gets because she plays a more grounded character who doesn't chew the scenery like her screen partners.

 

I think Carlyle would give Mr. Gold a bit of spark again if the show gave him a better story to work with. It's hard to emote when all he's given is the same repetitive story line over and over, where he apologizes to Belle, but secretly wants his own thing, but doesn't want to be too showy about it because he doesn't want to get caught, even though he always gets caught, and then the cycle repeats itself.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think he phones it in. Sparkly and Gold are two very different characters. One is played for flash and the other one is more subdued. I do think they do Gold a disservice by keeping him contained in a bubble just like it's a disservice to Belle to keep her in a bubble. Maybe that's what it is.

[KingOfHearts]

I think Carlyle would give Mr. Gold a bit of spark again if the show gave him a better story to work with.

I agree. Like what Mathius stated, Rumple was able to act more villainous in 4A. (Which, yeah, was the last time Mr. Gold had any fire going.) 

 

 

Sparkly and Gold are two very different characters. One is played for flash and the other one is more subdued. I do think they do Gold a disservice by keeping him contained in a bubble just like it's a disservice to Belle to keep her in a bubble. Maybe that's what it is.

 

Without going into We Are Both, which is a problem between almost all the characters, I do remember Gold chewing the scenery a bit more in S1 and S2. His gestures were broader, his tone would fluctuate more, and I could tell RC enjoyed the role more. The writing for his dialogue gave him wittier and more varied remarks. Later down the line, Rumple started repressing his former self more in order to impress Belle.

 

You'll notice he's only sparkly when he's in control. In S1, he had complete control of the curse under Regina's nose. In S2, he gained his magical powers back. In 3A, he was uncomfortably confronting his past in Neverland with a father who was arguably more powerful than him. In 3B, he spent most of his time trapped under Zelena's control. Through 4A, he was able to become more unhinged when Belle wasn't around because he was orchestrating a diabolical plot. In 4B, while he was still an evil mastermind, he got exiled and started dying. In 5A, he was in a coma and then later played the cowardly hero without magic. Now we're in 5B, and you can tell he's very uncomfortable being the Underworld. (Much like with Neverland.)

 

It's not RC's acting as much as it's writing giving him reasons to be more sobered. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Rumple managed to screw-over his ex-wife. Again. I can't help feeling the writers always side with Rumple over Milah. She doesn't deserve to become cannon fodder just to push Rumple's agenda.

[Katherine]

I'll never understand how some fans can call Hook abusive without batting an eye at the fact that Rumple MURDERED his wife. And now, Rumple's gone and doomed Milah for all eternity. If the writers think he deserves a happy ending with Belle after everything he's done, then I have a bigger issue with that than I do with the way they've handled Regina's redemption. And that's saying something.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Katherine

[YaddaYadda]

It felt like they had common grounds for a moment there though, like there was something good happening there.

 

But Rumple will fuck anyone over when it comes to his kid. We saw what he did when he was trying to find Bae. Milah most certainly deserved a lot better, especially after that backstory where he made the decision for her that they wouldn't have anymore kids (not that kids would be a great idea in a marriage that's in shambles, but still, he took her choice away).

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple managed to screw-over his ex-wife. Again. I can't help feeling the writers always side with Rumple over Milah. She doesn't deserve to become cannon fodder just to push Rumple's agenda.

This episode was written by Jane. Enough said.

[Camera One]

And it was complete with a Regina B plot.

[Mari]

I'll never understand how some fans can call Hook abusive without batting an eye at the fact that Rumple MURDERED his wife.

Well, Rumple isn't an obstacle in most fanon ships.

Sorry.

[Curio]

I'm shocked there's still so many Rumple fans who try to justify all his actions, especially after last night's episode, and paint him as this ultimate victim who deserves all of Belle's love. I've always thought the writers have made it clear that he's supposed to be a viewed as a villainous bastard with occasional moments of sympathy, not a heroic woobie wizard who constantly gets painted in a negative light by all the mean heroes.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

Only someone as nasty and little minded as Rumple would call statutory rape, teenage pregnancy, and abandonment as a "scandalous" and "torrid" affair. And all for the purpose of embarrassing Emma and turning Milah against her. I just wanted to strangle him. His face when Emma and Milah bonded instead was priceless! He is such a misogynistic wife-murdering jerk. I have zero sympathy for him.

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple is an idiot. Regardless of principles, every attempt to worm his way out of trouble absolutely backfires. He thought he could get out of paying the healer by killing him. Nope. He thought he could make a deal with Hades to get back to Belle. Nope. Every time he deceives someone to get something, it fails miserably in the end. Since the writers need him to keep doing this without question, he's going to keep falling on his ass. Over and over again.

[KAOS Agent]

According to the writers, he's supposedly learned a lot. I don't get how they can say that with a straight face. Rumpel has been shown to have learned absolutely nothing. He repeats the exact same mistakes that cost him his son.

[Camera One]

I wonder what they think he learned in this episode.  Don't make crystal balls when you don't need to?

[Faemonic]

Rumple managed to screw-over his ex-wife. Again. I can't help feeling the writers always side with Rumple over Milah. She doesn't deserve to become cannon fodder just to push Rumple's agenda.

I'll never understand how some fans can call Hook abusive without batting an eye at the fact that Rumple MURDERED his wife. And now, Rumple's gone and doomed Milah for all eternity. If the writers think he deserves a happy ending with Belle after everything he's done, then I have a bigger issue with that than I do with the way they've handled Regina's redemption. And that's saying something.

I'm shocked there's still so many Rumple fans who try to justify all his actions, especially after last night's episode, and paint him as this ultimate victim who deserves all of Belle's love. I've always thought the writers have made it clear that he's supposed to be a viewed as a villainous bastard with occasional moments of sympathy, not a heroic woobie wizard who constantly gets painted in a negative light by all the mean heroes.

My first thought is that we live in a very strange world where Horton Heard A Who can become an anti-abortion manifesto and Lolita is advertised in the blurb as a comedy. So, there's only so much misinterpretation of the work that can be blamed on the author's craft. If viewers (as Curio put it elsewhere so succintly) live in fanon rather than canon, well...let them (up until the point where they start actively spreading rumors in efforts to get innocent actors sacked, harass writers and actors to start writing the fanon, etcetera.) Or putting down fans who haven't necessarily been directly behaving badly at other fans.

So, the only time I mentioned Milah to someone who was in the middle of breathing fire about Hook stealing the show and Rumple gets unfairly ignored/hated, the response was basically, "But Rumple never attacked innocent people who got in his way, did he??" First, you know what? This is fiction. Every time with seethe with either vindictiveness or joy, I've got to believe that's because everyone is working through some stuff that's far beyond the show. I shouldn't harsh someone's mellow, or mellow their harsh; so I'll cut it out. Second, it's really no use arguing with someone who doesn't consider that Milah was comparatively innocent and waaay out of the way at the time of death, if I take that as a given, and I don't even like her! (If I caught up on this episode, I might.)

 

My second thought is that, well, Milah's not a person but a character, so how sympathetic she is relies a lot on what's shown, written, acted, and maybe rarely the meta that points out how only thinking about this character instead of witnessing this character makes a more sympathetic character and what a good idea it would be to double check the "point of view" of her introduction (Rumple's) and be wary. That's not popular meta. It's very difficult to muster up the depth of emotional conviction about Milah compared to other characters. I even preferred Jackelyn to Milah as a character, and I think I even spelled the name of the former wrong. And I do blame the writers for that. Yes, the show makes it out like Milah commandeered pre-Hook's ship and crew and wore a Strong Independent Wardrobe, because we can't be anti-feminist about a woman dying in an honor killing in some intimately domestic dispute, dear me no. Yes, I'm pleasantly surprised at the spoilers that someone was wise enough to make Milah more of an Abigail than a Tamara/Zarian hypotenuse; no catfights!

 

But most of all I think Milah's generally more of an Owen. Unlike Graham even, the episodes she's been in don't take her point of view. I really suspect that both Hook and Milah were conceived as props for Rumpel from the get-go, and we would have been made to forget about Milah entirely had Hook not become some dark horse fan favorite.

 

Regardless of principles, every attempt to worm his way out of trouble absolutely backfires. He thought he could get out of paying the healer by killing him. Nope. He thought he could make a deal with Hades to get back to Belle. Nope. Every time he deceives someone to get something, it fails miserably in the end. Since the writers need him to keep doing this without question, he's going to keep falling on his ass. Over and over again.

Golden Floor? Is that a ship yet?

[Mathius]

Unlike Graham even, the episodes she's been in don't take her point of view.

 

You haven't seen the episode yet and that's the thing: it finally does.  And that just makes her fate even worse.

[Rumsy4]

I went on a bit of a tumblr detour today to visit other parts of the ONCE fandom (don't ask). I saw several posts blaming Emma as being the reason Hades found out about Belle's pregnancy.  The argument is that if she had told Rumple about her vision of Neal, he wouldn't have had to make the crystal ball to look for him. 

 

Yes. Let's blame Emma for poor Rumple's problems. :-p

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Faemonic]

You haven't seen the episode yet and that's the thing: it finally does.  And that just makes her fate even worse.

First: Aw, maaan... Second: Milah is Bizarro Graham then, like...Milah is to Rumpel as Graham is to Regina, but their significance and prominence goes backwards in the timeline.

 

Heart Is A Lonely Hunter / The Devil's Due

Episodes taken from the point of view of a trapped partner that ends with the supposed antagonist having a fatal doomlike victory over them, statements or inference about making that antagonist the sort of person they are today.

 

Welcome To Storybrooke / Manhattan & The Crocodile

Both parties, or all four parties, portrayed as equally active agents in a horrible relationship.

 

S3 Onwards / S1

Graham and Milah might have been mentioned. Who are they again?

[orza]

I went on a bit of a tumblr detour today to visit other parts of the ONCE fandom (don't ask). I saw several posts blaming Emma as being the reason Hades found out about Belle's pregnancy.  The argument is that if she had told Rumple about her vision of Neal, he wouldn't have had to make the crystal ball to look for him. 

Well, that is true. If Rumple had known the Neal had moved on he would have had no reason to create the crystal ball to locate his son. So, yeah, Emma withholding that info has put Belle in jeopardy..

[YaddaYadda]

Well, that is true. If Rumple had known the Neal had moved on he would have had no reason to create the crystal ball to locate his son. So, yeah, Emma withholding that info has put Belle in jeopardy..

Emma doesn't owe Rumple a single thing. She certainly didn't owe him that either. 

 

I could argue that had Rumple not come back to Storybrooke with his almost dark heart that the darkness wouldn't have been released in town in a bid to save his sad life. Emma wouldn't have had to sacrifice herself to take it on, Hook wouldn't have been cut, and then turned into a Dark One, and then died thinking he was ending the darkness when Rumple took it all back onto him and then some. I can also say that if he had stayed away, Belle wouldn't be pregnant and in danger of getting her kid taken from her because he thought he was more clever than everyone.

Edited March 24, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Camera One]

It's all the Blue Fairy's fault.  If she hadn't given Baelfire the bean, none of this would have happened.  Tsk tsk.

[Mari]

It's all the Blue Fairy's fault.  If she hadn't given Baelfire the bean, none of this would have happened.  Tsk tsk.

Seriously? What about those irresponsible Giants, growing those dangerous beans and then, after doing that, being haphazard about who ends up with them? They should have known what questionable decisions Blue, Bae, and Rumple would make.

[YaddaYadda]

It's all the Blue Fairy's fault.  If she hadn't given Baelfire the bean, none of this would have happened.  Tsk tsk.

Hey! Leave the original hope peddler alone!

 

Shady also "mentioned" the curse. Probably because she wanted him to know.

Edited March 24, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[KAOS Agent]

So rather than address the idea that Rumpel sold his second child, the issue is that Emma had a private conversation with her ex and didn't tell Rumpel about it and that's why Belle is in danger. If everyone in the Underworld is aware of what's going on in Storybrooke, I don't understand why they think that Rumpel finding out Belle was pregnant while using the crystal ball is any different than if he'd found out a different way. That kid would still be in trouble and still belong to someone other than Rumpel and Belle. Maybe he'd be fine in life, but once he died, he'd be a slave forever. 

 

Also, Rumpel never asked Emma or Henry if they'd seen Neal or checked to see whether his grave was tipped. It's not that difficult to do. Rumpel was just an idiot who went through this whole convoluted magic deal to check on Neal rather than ask the others. If he'd seen Neal was in a happier place in that ball, would he have bothered to pass that information on to Emma & Henry? Doubtful.

[InsertWordHere]

If Rumple wanted Emma to keep him up to date on all her goings on, maybe he shouldn't have planned to waste her attempted sacrifice in Swan Song by stealing back the Dark One powers. 

[Rumsy4]

Apparently, Emma should have told him because he's "family". Yes--this was a legit argument that was used.

[InsertWordHere]

Maybe they mean because he's Neal's family? Here's the thing- if the situation was flipped and Rumple had a conversation with a dead member of Emma's family, would he tell her about it or would he wait until he could gain something with that information?

[Camera One]

So is Henry giving Rumple the cold shoulder now, after throwing his support behind his redemption at the end of 5A?  Does Rumple even care what Henry thinks of him?  It's scary how these interpersonal connections between main characters are completely ignored.

[KAOS Agent]

 

It's scary how these interpersonal connections between main characters are completely ignored.

 

I was thinking just how much making Rumpel into some moustache twirling villain has taken away from a lot of the complexity and interest I had in Rumpel's character. Remember back in Season 2 how he asked David how he made things work with Snow? He was showing vulnerability and a willingness to learn how to be a better partner for Belle. Now she just accepts him and he doesn't even bother to care about her feelings or what he might do to make it work.

 

Remember how he used to seem to have a grudging respect for Emma? It seemed like he genuinely admired seeing someone who'd been powerless and a pawn before she was even conceived manage to overcome all that and be a strong person in her own right without trampling all over others to do it. She was an example of how to do things right, while he was an example of how to do it wrong. She didn't need power to live her life. Plus, he seemed a little afraid of her potential to beat him (and I desperately want to see that play out). Now he's just an arrogant, dismissive jackass who doesn't seem to care about anything.

 

He's not compelling anymore because we don't see him want to change or believe that he has a need to do so. He's just a horrible evil little man with no redeeming qualities who gets away with it all because he's family. It's not fun to watch because I know he's never going to pay for his evil actions.

[Rumsy4]

Not only that, Rumple is now back to square one as far his origin story goes. He leaves home on a quest: the first time to rid himself of the stigma of his father's reputation as a coward, the second time becasue someone blackmailed him into it. He has good intentions until he finds out his wife is pregnant. Does something super shady to rush back home, all good intentions tossed aside. Plan backfires on him massively, he ends up betraying his son, and spends the rest of his life being a massive asshole trying to correct his mistake (but not really). 

 

He got a fresh start and blew it. Again. There is no creativity or nuance to his storyline anymore. We've seen it all.

[KingOfHearts]

As much as A&E want to deny it, Rumple has become very one-note. He's not this humanized bad guy they claim he is any more. Everything they point to as "heroic" or "sacrificial" is undone or neutralized because of some deception. Examples: Rumple married Belle... but with a fake dagger. Rumple helped Will return Belle's heart... through threatening him. Rumple let Belle live the life she wanted... then reverted from what she believed in him and got her baby sold off. He pretends to be good, lies, then gets in trouble. It's over and over again. But he can't be a straight villain because he's "family" and part of a Disney OTP. 

 

It's annoying whether you're rooting for his redemption or prefer him as a mustache-twirling bad guy.

[Camera One]

Jane said Eddy had a very specific tone in mind in the scene with Milah and Rumple in the boat.  What tone was that?  Rumple being genuine about reassuring Milah that Baelfire would have forgiven her?  If one watched that scene in isolation, one would conclude that indeed, Rumple is a very human character.  I think to Eddy, having him be involved in such a conversation and then turning around to dump Milah into the river makes Rumple into a very complex humanized bad guy. Complex and humanized, check.  Bad guy, check.  And thus Rumple is both.

[KingOfHearts]

A&E mentioned before Devil's Due that we would be exploring Rumple's psyche. I honestly didn't learn anything I didn't already know.

[Curio]

From the Relationships thread:

Then again, Rumple has been presented as an addict, so giving up his drug for his wife, and child is not so easily done. This is how I have to look at it if any of this is going to make any kind of sense. Because addicts tend to choose their addiction over the people they love. Rumple loves his crack. And he's chosen his crack over his wife.

 
I was recently reading an article about the reasons HBO's Vinyl failed in its first season, and I came across this paragraph describing one of the characters on that show:

The snorting head-snap became a real hindrance to Cannavale's performance. Hell, in the first three hours he deserved an Emmy nomination for making the coke-fueled rock and roll epiphany-and-outrage thing work to perfection. I could watch those scenes on a loop. But making Richie stay that way for a full season turned him into a caricature and diminished what Cannavale was able to create so passionately in those early episodes. Worse, and this should be pinned up in the writer's room: Nobody likes an addict. No matter how much you want to romanticize him or her, an addict is an unlikable screw-up who ruins other peoples lives. Over and over again. If you do that with your main character for 10 hours, you've lost the rooting interest.

 
I bolded the part that can easily be applied to Rumple's character at the moment. What's worse, Rumple's behavior has been going on for far longer than 10 episodes, it's been multiple seasons with no end in sight. I think Rumple being addicted to magic and power is an important part of his character, but the writers have shot themselves in the foot by not making him progress very much over the years and his constant backsliding. The longer he remains this way, the more he turns into a caricature, which is what the critique above also noted about Cannavale's performance. 

 

As much as I love Carlyle and his performance, at some point, something's gotta give. 5A proved that a "heroic" Rumple is boring, so the writers can't flip a switch and make him a hero. But this current 5B arc also shows the flaws in keeping Rumple addicted to his power because everyone around him has to turn into blind idiots to let that behavior slide. Do we honestly expect Hook to find out Rumple was the one who pushed Milah into the river? No. Do we honestly expect Belle to permanently leave Rumple? No. The idiot ball is constantly tossed around in order to keep Rumple on Team Charming/Jones/Mills. Either force Rumple off their team and make him a full-time villain, or bring his character to an end. Those seem to be the only viable options at this point, unless someone else has any better ideas on how to redeem him without making everyone else look bad in the process.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Curio

[Camera One]

I guess in this case, Rumple is more than an addict.  He's still considered a "fun" villain, by viewers and especially A&E&J.  I know someone who's bored in any episode without Rumple.  

Edited April 20, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

Plus he won Jared Gilmore's twitter poll for best villain (with 31%, just one point more than Pan's 30%) and given that Jared Gilmore's polls attract numbers in the ten-thousands, they're probably better representative of the GA and their views than other site's polls.  You can credit Robert Carlyle for this, even with lackluster writing he can elevate it.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

At this point, I don't know what to make of Rumple. I think as Imp!Rumple, he's pretty fantastic, and even as Mr. Gold. I enjoy both, but Rumple should not be a romantic relationship. He just shouldn't be. And it's not because I don't want the character to be happy, or anything like that. I think his happy ending always laid with Bae. And I'm talking about Bae specifically, not Neal. 

 

If they want Rumple to be attaches to his magic, and in love with his magic, then that's what they should do. Let Belle go for realsies so that she can actually live her life, have shared custody of Damien, and I mean why not? Plus Storybrooke is a small town, so they're bound to have awkward run-ins at Granny's.

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple's relationship with Belle should have remained "a brief flicker of light amidst an ocean of darkness". It works great as a one-time thing, but Belle should have just broken up with him and saw him once in a while. She should have been a reoccurring character that showed up just often enough to make Rumpbelle ambiguous. Then, in the final season, maybe put them together if Rumple redeems himself.

Rumple just needs more people to play off of. I really liked his dynamic with Pan in 5x12 and his run-ins with different fairy tale characters in the flashbacks. But, he needs more in the present in order to keep him relevant beyond "looming threat". Belle makes his character less entertaining, imo. She puts him on a leash.

Edited April 20, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I would love for everyone to find out what Rumple did to Milah in the Underworld and have that be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And finally, Emma, the Charmings, Hook, Henry, and Regina can say "screw it" to their "oh, but he's family" mantra and say enough is enough. I'd love to see Emma go toe-to-toe with Rumple and she has every right to. He's attempted to kill her and her family multiple times, was responsible for releasing the Dark Goop that turned her into a Dark One, made her and Hook's Dark One sacrifice worthless, and now has no plans on becoming a better person. At least with Regina, the Charmings see that she's trying to become a better person so they tolerate her, but with Rumple, they should draw the line when he admits that he doesn't care about becoming a better person.

 

Big Bad Villain Rumple would be so much fun, but I don't know if the show will ever go there again, especially since they love their villain-turned-hero-because-they-had-a-baby plot. They kind of dipped their toe in the Big Bad Rumple water when they had him as the villain in 4B, but that plot was so terrible (Rumple was literally just doing the same exact thing Regina was attempting to do, so the morality was really weird), that it fell completely flat. Can we have a Season 6 plot where Rumple and Jafar team up and be awesome villains together?

[Shanna Marie]

I keep wondering if they're planning to have Rumple as the ultimate big bad villain for the final arc, and definitely defeating or redeeming him for good will be the ending of the series. But in the meantime they have to keep him around and bad enough to be interesting but not so bad that defeating him for good becomes a serious goal for the good guys.

[Curio]

I keep wondering if they're planning to have Rumple as the ultimate big bad villain for the final arc, and definitely defeating or redeeming him for good will be the ending of the series. But in the meantime they have to keep him around and bad enough to be interesting but not so bad that defeating him for good becomes a serious goal for the good guys.

 

That's what I keep thinking as well. But the writers don't know how long the series will last, so that plan only works well when they have an absolute end-date in sight...not so much when they have to twiddle their thumbs for years before getting to their end point. This is when I don't envy show runners who perfected a series ending in their head only to have the parent company tell them they need to keep the show alive for two, three, or even four more years. It might have been satisfying to see Rumple as the main Big Bad in the final season of Adam & Eddy's original plan, but they're at a point where they need to rearrange the road map because their pacing is ruining Rumple's potential as an interesting character. When show runners stick too closely to their original plan in TV writing, that's when you can run into a How I Met Your Mother situation where the final episode isn't organic anymore because of everything else that came before it. Rumple is at a point where I feel like he needs to go Big Bad and soon, otherwise, he's going to become uninteresting and we won't care when he's finally a Big Bad however many years from now.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Curio