S10.E23: Brother's Keeper

[rue721]

Try...it was a test of blind obedience.

 

Like Abraham and Isaac?

 

So, we'll see what happens.  I just feel like it's WE, the audience, who is being set up.

 

I think so, too.

 

I honestly do suspect that Death was an illusion of Crowley's. Because Crowley has a motivation for wanting everything that Death was trying to do (kill Sam, banish Dean while preserving the Mark), while Death doesn't really. And because otherwise, Crowley didn't come through on his threat to become evil again *at all,* which seems extremely disjointed even for this show. And because Crowley worked that same illusion trick on Cain. And because that summoning ritual looked so much like a demon summoning and also seemed like no big deal (whereas before they had to bind Death, and Death was pissed, etc etc etc). And because I really don't understand where they would even go with the whole "Death is Dead!" idea.

 

LOL speaking of illusions, and setting up or tricking the audience -- it makes me think of how the Darkness throwing a big POOF of smoke over the Mexican restaurant, the Impala, and the guys, is sort of like a magician throwing down a smoke bomb to hide his trick/escape.

[supposebly]

I'd be happy if all this were true and we're being set up. I'm just trying to remember if I was ever tricked since season 8 started. It feels like it's been depressingly predictable.

[catrox14]

If we take Death for being really most sincerely dead, I was thinking it was Crowley at first but I dunno anymore.

 

My argument was that Crowley set up Death or it's an illusion spell a la Executioner's Song but Crowley got that idea from Rowena in the first place. And now I'm thinking it might actually all be Rowena working for the Darkness or wanting the Darkness unleashed for her yet as unknown reasons.

 

--Rowena managed to avoid capture by Crowley for 300 years and claims that the Grand Coven is after her. But we never saw anyone actually chase her. Crowley went and got Olivette not the other way around.

 

--After being incognito and hidden from Crowley she gets captured by demons and IMO she knew Crowley wouldn't kill her because Mommy reasons.

--She knew about the First Blade and that it was the only thing that could kill Cain

--She manipulated Crowley into using the illusion spell to get Dean to kill Cain, making him the only bearer of the Mark.

--She knew about the Codex and that she needed the Two Men of Letters to open the box.

--She hexed Crowley back into being the King of Hell

She hexed Crowley back to being a demon which just amped up his hubris and then he thought he would get Oscar to hurt Rowena but IMO she wanted him to find Oscar.

--She binds Crowley and turns Cas into her attack dog

--She knew that the Mark was the Lock and freeing Dean of the Mark would unleash the Darkness.

--And Death needs to be dead for the Darkness to rule the world.

 

I'm almost thinking if Death is really most sincerely dead, we might get a "Torchwood: Miracle Day" scenario which in Supernatural hands might be freaking awesome. 

 

What do you guys think? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Also, she might be getting played by the Darkness and she could be the Ruby to the parallel to s4 with Sam and Dean unleashing Lucifer unknowingly.

Edited May 27, 2015 by catrox14

[catrox14]

Another question...okay so even if Death is dead..there are reapers, but isnt' Heaven still closed to souls?

[DittyDotDot]

Well, maybe, maybe not. It's never been spelled out on the show, but Cass said something about Heaven finally getting back to normal earlier this season. I'm sorry, I can't recall the episode right now. So, it could be that reapers were taking souls through the same back door regular angels were getting through or he may have just been referring to the angels finally stopped bickering...who knows really?

 

However, if Heaven is back to normal we were totally robbed of another Kevin episode, IMO.

 

Yeah, I know.

[Mick Lady]

 

Like Abraham and Isaac?

 

Great insight! I haven't read the bible in years, but this just reminded me of something Mrs. Kim from Gilmore Girls said to Dave; "That is a very difficult thing to do, reading the Bible in one night. I myself have only done it three times."

 

Good God, I'm sitting here laughing like a mad woman! I keep imagining Mrs. Kim taking on Crowley! Sometimes I think I drink too much!

[Mick Lady]

If we take Death for being really most sincerely dead, I was thinking it was Crowley at first but I dunno anymore.

 

My argument was that Crowley set up Death or it's an illusion spell a la Executioner's Song but Crowley got that idea from Rowena in the first place. And now I'm thinking it might actually all be Rowena working for the Darkness or wanting the Darkness unleashed for her yet as unknown reasons.

 

--Rowena managed to avoid capture by Crowley for 300 years and claims that the Grand Coven is after her. But we never saw anyone actually chase her. Crowley went and got Olivette not the other way around.

 

--After being incognito and hidden from Crowley she gets captured by demons and IMO she knew Crowley wouldn't kill her because Mommy reasons.

--She knew about the First Blade and that it was the only thing that could kill Cain

--She manipulated Crowley into using the illusion spell to get Dean to kill Cain, making him the only bearer of the Mark.

--She knew about the Codex and that she needed the Two Men of Letters to open the box.

--She hexed Crowley back into being the King of Hell

She hexed Crowley back to being a demon which just amped up his hubris and then he thought he would get Oscar to hurt Rowena but IMO she wanted him to find Oscar.

--She binds Crowley and turns Cas into her attack dog

--She knew that the Mark was the Lock and freeing Dean of the Mark would unleash the Darkness.

--And Death needs to be dead for the Darkness to rule the world.

 

I'm almost thinking if Death is really most sincerely dead, we might get a "Torchwood: Miracle Day" scenario which in Supernatural hands might be freaking awesome. 

 

What do you guys think? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Also, she might be getting played by the Darkness and she could be the Ruby to the parallel to s4 with Sam and Dean unleashing Lucifer unknowingly.

 

Honest to God, I just read this to Mick, and he look at me silently for a few moments and said:

 

"Pre-WoP (what he calls this site) should just put a high fence around the place and send in the nurses."

[SueB]

Honest to God, I just read this to Mick, and he look at me silently for a few moments and said:

 

"Pre-WoP (what he calls this site) should just put a high fence around the place and send in the nurses."

If alcohol is part of the treatment, I'm totally on board.

 

ETA: If it was Abraham and Isaac, Dean TOTALLY FAILED.  Cause he did the opposite of blind obedience.  OTOH, maybe that's was what they wanted. I'm still thinking this is a God/Death test.  I think God and Death sit around shooting the shit every once in a while. Maybe making wagers on what those Winchesters are going to do NOW.  I'd pay money for that fic. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by SueB

[Demented Daisy]

I don't think this universe God would want/expect blind obedience -- especially not from the Winchesters.  I think He gave mankind free will and that was His excuse to dust himself off and say, "I'm done."

 

Then he went to New Jersey and got addicted to skee ball.  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

I think God and Death sit around shooting the shit every once in a while. Maybe making wagers on what those Winchesters are going to do NOW.  I'd pay money for that fic. 

 

Heh, so they're like Statler and Waldorf? ;)

 

I don't think this universe God would want/expect blind obedience -- especially not from the Winchesters.  I think He gave mankind free will and that was His excuse to dust himself off and say, "I'm done."

 

Then he went to New Jersey and got addicted to skee ball.  ;-)

 

HEE!

[catrox14]

Honest to God, I just read this to Mick, and he look at me silently for a few moments and said:

 

"Pre-WoP (what he calls this site) should just put a high fence around the place and send in the nurses."

 

 

 

Mick-"I know your still in there somewhere. Just let me finish the treatments.

demon!Catrox-"You act like I wanna be cured. Well, personally, I like the disease"

Edited May 27, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

I don't think this universe God would want/expect blind obedience -- especially not from the Winchesters.  I think He gave mankind free will and that was His excuse to dust himself off and say, "I'm done."

 

Well, this just enforces my theory that Abraham actually failed God's test, but since history is told through the eyes of the victors...

 

Sam and Dean passed God's test time and time again by choosing free will over blind obedience.

Edited May 27, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

The problem I have with this being and Abraham and Isaac kind of a test, is what is the point of it now in the story? Why would God and Death be testing the Winchesters when the Winchesters like saved humanity already at least once?

 

It feels like the show is only looking at the most recent things Dean and Sam did instead of that one time (at band camp) when they actually saved the world by screwing destiny in the face, which was kind of God's fault because he peaced out, according to Joshua.

 

God left the world to fend for itself during the Apocalypse. Maybe God is the one that needs a talking too and a testL)

[DittyDotDot]

The problem I have with this being and Abraham and Isaac kind of a test, is what is the point of it now in the story?

 

Making money? ;)

[SueB]

I bet he's got $5 on it.

ETA: Abraham & Isaac was a looooong time ago. I think they are judging by new standards.

Edited May 27, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

My point was that if the boys screwing destiny in the face was a test as some think then what they did was right and they already passed that test. Now I could see it being an idiotic test Metatron would concoct just to Fuck with them.

[Mick Lady]

Mick-"I know your still in there somewhere. Just let me finish the treatments.

demon!Catrox-"You act like I wanna be cured. Well, personally, I like the disease"

 

Hey! Now Mick wants to have a beer and a shot with you and SueB. Jim Beam of course.

 

You'll end up in a Biker bar though. Mick plays the Blues weekend nights at the local pub. And I'd pay cash money to be a fly on the wall, you'd be surprised by how many of the Guys watch Supernatural!

 

I think I'll print out a few posts from here and see what they think. Hell, now that I think about it, that would start a lot of great conversations! I'm gonna do it!

[catrox14]

MickLady, if you don't find out which of the fellas are Dean-girls and Sam-girls, you will have failed this blog...(I'm mixing my fandom metaphors!)

[Altered Reality]

Hey! Now Mick wants to have a beer and a shot with you and SueB. Jim Beam of course.

 

You'll end up in a Biker bar though. Mick plays the Blues weekend nights at the local pub. And I'd pay cash money to be a fly on the wall, you'd be surprised by how many of the Guys watch Supernatural!

 

I think I'll print out a few posts from here and see what they think. Hell, now that I think about it, that would start a lot of great conversations! I'm gonna do it!

Okay, you are required record this event.  You owe it to this board ;D

 

Seriously, I wanna be a fly on the wall for *that* conversation.

[oliverwendell]

 

MickLady, if you don't find out which of the fellas are Dean-girls and Sam-girls, you will have failed this blog...(I'm mixing my fandom metaphors!)

 

HAHA!  Yes, this must happen.  I'm betting Mick is a Dean Girl.

[Mick Lady]

Okay Guys! Mick is doing two sets Sat. night.  I'll record the comments on my phone, and if I can post them here, I will. If not, I'll provide a link. I have a feeling it will be NSFW!

 

Mick, by the way, is a total Dean girl! My avatar, or icon whatever you call it, is actually Mick. I wish we could post pics on this site, I'd show you guys some of his Bros.

 

His friends started watching Supernatural with their kids, or grand kids, and got hooked.

[Iguana]

Heh. We are Legion. Resistance is futile. One of us! One of us!

Just a quick drive-by because I haven't had much time for posting but I have enjoyed the Conversation even if I haven't participated. Y'all rock.

[Bruinsfan]

God left the world to fend for itself during the Apocalypse. Maybe God is the one that needs a talking too and a testL)

I don't see how they can undo the current mess without direct intervention from God. Primordial disincarnate darkness isn't really the sort of thing the Winchesters can fight with a knife or gun; it's probably not even something that Death could do much about as it's not a living thing that can be done away with. I assume its effects will be making the crapsack world of Supernatural even more bleak and depressing. Which—hoo boy—is really going to make the show so much fun to watch...

 

I also think Carver, etc. are out of their minds if they actually kill Death and cut themselves off from using Julian Richings in future episodes.

[miles2go]

don't see how they can undo the current mess without direct intervention from God

 

 

If they bring Chuck back, it might be worth it. (That's assuming Chuck really is God.)

[FlickChick]

Mick, by the way, is a total Dean girl! My avatar, or icon whatever you call it, is actually Mick. I wish we could post pics on this site, I'd show you guys some of his Bros.

 

His friends started watching Supernatural with their kids, or grand kids, and got hooked.

Hey Mick Lady, you're lucky to have Mick and friends to enjoy the passion (of the show, I mean ;)) with. We're three generations here - I watch, my two daughters watch and my grandson and his girlfriend watch. However, we are a house divided with a mix of Dean-girls and Sam-girls. Makes the discussions interesting!

[Mick Lady]

Hey Mick Lady, you're lucky to have Mick and friends to enjoy the passion (of the show, I mean ;)) with. We're three generations here - I watch, my two daughters watch and my grandson and his girlfriend watch. However, we are a house divided with a mix of Dean-girls and Sam-girls. Makes the discussions interesting!

 

The generation thing is so true! This afternoon, Mick's bass player Hayward stopped by. About five years ago he joined the local "Big Brother" program, and the young man he mentors is a Supernatural freak! He had started watching around season five, and Hayward knew we had all the seasons on DVD, so he borrowed them, and they binge watched them. It was a great way for them to bond, and Hayward became hooked.

 

So today, I showed Hayward this thread, and he thinks catrox14 is a genius! He couldn't wait to tell his "Little Brother" all the theories discussed here. It's amazing how a TV show can unite people. It's just one thing I love about this place!

[catrox14]

FROM the Hammer of the Gods thread

Which is an interesting observation, because that could be an interpretation of what Samifer said to Dean in "The End" : that it was humans who were the flawed, violent, and evil ones and had caused all of the destruction, but "how many of you blame me for it?" Maybe he was hinting that part of his power was because people had given him that power by believing he had it in the first place - like a self-fulfilling prophecy. In SPNverse, maybe the more people that believe in Lucifer's influence, the more he actually has.

And this is why the whole idea of the Mark corrupting Lucifer pisses me off to no end. HOW can they possibly reconcile this huge difference between the Lucifer that had always believed humans were beneath the Archangels and God with really just being corrupted?

Edited May 29, 2015 by catrox14

[supposebly]

Yes, I don't like it either. Lucifer stood for free will (at least for himself), now it's all the mark's fault?

 

So, the bearer of the mark is now a Lucifer stand-in? In that case, good job destroying the whole ideas of the Lucifer=Sam and Michael=Dean parallels of season 4 and 5, Carver.

[catrox14]

Yes, I don't like it either. Lucifer stood for free will (at least for himself), now it's all the mark's fault?

 

So, the bearer of the mark is now a Lucifer stand-in? In that case, good job destroying the whole ideas of the Lucifer=Sam and Michael=Dean parallels of season 4 and 5, Carver.

 

YUP. I am really really upset because I can't see it any other way. I mean I'm open to other ideas but I can't see how Carver can write himself out of this total mess.  Well, I can think of one way.  That it's a Metatron maneuver and isn't actually what's going on.

[DittyDotDot]

Yes, I don't like it either. Lucifer stood for free will (at least for himself), now it's all the mark's fault?

 

So, the bearer of the mark is now a Lucifer stand-in? In that case, good job destroying the whole ideas of the Lucifer=Sam and Michael=Dean parallels of season 4 and 5, Carver.

 

I don't know, I'm starting to think it might be reinforcing it in a rather whack-a-doodle way. I'm not sure this will make sense, but here goes...

 

Lucifer was chosen by God to bear this great responsibility, in order to keep humanity safe, but Lucifer didn't really care about the responsibility because he didn't love humanity as God did. So the Mark wormed it's way in through Lucifer's insecurities and heightened them to epic levels of jealousy and anger. What's interesting is, if Dean is Michael, then maybe God chose the wrong angel to be the holder of the Mark? Dean was willing to be locked away so humanity would be safe, whereas Lucifer had to be forced into his cage and locking him in that cage only fueled his anger and resentments.

 

Yes, the Mark twisted Lucifer, but also the Mark had to have something to work with. So, maybe it's not all the Mark's fault? It doesn't work as cleanly as what they did in S5, but kids have grubby hands which always tends to soil things. ;)

[mertensia]

It's not an either/or though. Lucifer can still be all "humans are a blot on the universe" without the Mark too. That may be *why* he gave Cain the Mark- give it to a detested human as a neener-neener.

[Demented Daisy]

I find it amusing that in this universe, God loves symmetry as much as TPTB do.  (Giving the Light-Bringer the tool to hold back the Darkness.)

[SueB]

Dupe.

Move along, move along. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Edited May 30, 2015 by SueB

[SueB]

I find it amusing that in this universe, God loves symmetry as much as TPTB do. (Giving the Light-Bringer the tool to hold back the Darkness.)

Very cool.

[Mick Lady]

Mick-"I know your still in there somewhere. Just let me finish the treatments.

demon!Catrox-"You act like I wanna be cured. Well, personally, I like the disease"

 

Bought this up again because I wanted to discuss some fanfic with Mick. He just looked at me and said (Holding a shot of JB) "Not now, Catrox and I have to figure out this Lucifer problem..."

 

Bring him back when you're done with him, okay?

[rue721]

And now I'm thinking it might actually all be Rowena working for the Darkness or wanting the Darkness unleashed for her yet as unknown reasons. [...]

What do you guys think? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Also, she might be getting played by the Darkness and she could be the Ruby to the parallel to s4 with Sam and Dean unleashing Lucifer unknowingly.

 

I think you're right that Rowena has *something* up her sleeve, because she spent the whole season maneuvering people into place, but that maneuvering still hasn't paid off for her. She's got the Codex now, but even that is only useful if she's got a plan to *do* something with it.

 

I'm still sort of wondering why she was going on about how similar she and Charlie are. She seems like she likes to recruit young women to be her minions (the prostitutes and Charlie, at least). Maybe she's trying to form a new coven? Or she wants young women to use as vessels for someone/something else?

 

She also clearly has the power to kill Crowley herself, so I wonder why she wanted Sam to do it? Maybe because she figured Sam would fail, Crowley would kill Sam, and then Dean would be Crowley's mortal enemy? Idk, that seems so pointless and indirect.

 

I also am not sure that she wants Crowley dead. Or at least I don't understand why she would. She showed up because it's useful to her that her son is King of Hell. Well, he's still King of Hell, so it seems like he could still be useful to her. So why's she trying to dethrone/kill him? She's not even trying to take over the role. It seems counterproductive for her.

 

ETA: If it was Abraham and Isaac, Dean TOTALLY FAILED.  Cause he did the opposite of blind obedience.  OTOH, maybe that's was what they wanted. I'm still thinking this is a God/Death test.  I think God and Death sit around shooting the shit every once in a while. Maybe making wagers on what those Winchesters are going to do NOW.  I'd pay money for that fic. 

 

I don't know whether Dean failed or not. It wouldn't just depend on what God would be looking for -- who knows if it was even God setting up the test?

 

(Rowena also had to sacrifice the person she held dearest to break the "curse" -- who set up *that* test? Could it have been the same person who set up Dean's? Crowley supplied the ingredients for Rowena's test/spell, which makes me wonder if he somehow Shanshu Prophesy-ed that spell, Sahjahn-style,*** so that it contained exactly the ingredients he wanted it to include. Especially since he'd just found out about the demon lover, and it wouldn't have been a bad guess to think that the same demon lover would have to be Rowena's sacrifice for the spell, and Crowley could find out the demon lover's identity and about Rowena's past that way)). 

 

Dean refusing to sacrifice Sam, even to (ostensibly) save the world, makes me think back to 1x22 (Devil's Trap) -- when Dean was so gutted that he shot that possessed man through the head to save Sam. Here's the line from the transcript:

 

Dean: Killing that guy, killing Meg. I didn’t hesitate, I didn’t even flinch. For you or Dad, the things I’m willing to do or kill, it’s just, uh .... it scares me sometimes.

 

The problem I have with this being and Abraham and Isaac kind of a test, is what is the point of it now in the story?

 

If Dean failed the obedience test by refusing to sacrifice the person dearest to him, then that means Rowena passed it...

 

Early on in the season, Sam and Crowley seemed like they were mirroring each other -- Crowley stepped into Sam's place as Dean's bff, etc. In this episode, Dean and Rowena's stories were mirroring each other similarly to how Crowley and Sam used to. I wonder how the show could/might play with that next season.

 

I guess maybe the point is whether it's a good thing or not that Dean is not obedient anymore, and whether it's a good thing or not that the Winchesters would (apparently) let the world burn if it meant sacrificing one of them.

 

This season seemed like it was all about collateral damage in terms of people that were barely a blip on the main characters' radar -- maybe next season will be about the main characters as collateral damage? If that's the case, then I hope that JDM comes back for at least one SL about it, because Sam and Dean are definitely collateral damage of his demon-fighting, lol. And I hope Yellow Eyes comes back, too. But then, I ALWAYS hope that John and Yellow Eyes come back, so. *shrug.*

 

Yes, I don't like it either. Lucifer stood for free will (at least for himself), now it's all the mark's fault?

 

So, the bearer of the mark is now a Lucifer stand-in? In that case, good job destroying the whole ideas of the Lucifer=Sam and Michael=Dean parallels of season 4 and 5, Carver.

 

I think that the bearer of the Mark would be a *pre-fall* Lucifer stand-in? So maybe it's more like:  pre-fall!Lucifer = Dean, post-fall!Lucifer = Sam (and Michael is alllllll Adam's, I guess. Lol)?

 

Though, since I don't really know anything much about Michael-the-Archangel outside of this show's version of him, I'm not all that attached to the Michael = Dean parallel, personally. And Lucifer and Sam never really seemed all that alike to me, and weren't even "disobedient" for at all similar reasons, as far as I know, so I'm not all that attached to that parallel, either. But YMMV.

 

Nobody has the Mark now, right? That's why THE DARKNESS!!1! was released? I would *think* that both Rowena and Crowley had to have realized that that's what would happen if she succeeded with this spell, since it's the kind of thing they both seem knowledgeable about, but I don't have any idea why either of them would want The Darkness released. Or what was up with them working together to get that done, but with Cas acting as their go-between and while still essentially giving each other the silent treatment (though tbh, behavior like that is why they are now in the running for my favorite family on the show).

 

***From Wikipedia:  In order to confuse Angel and his friends, Sahjhan alters the passage in the prophecy about his death; the passage now reads "The Father Will Kill the Son", leading Wesley to the conclusion Angel will kill Connor.

ETA:

 

Wait wait, what if Dean looked so shocked when he cut into Death instead of lopping off Sam's head, because that was God (or whoever was running the test -- so, not the Mark, or Dean himself) guiding his blade? Maybe he and Sam were granted the reprieve at the last second, just like Abraham and Isaac were?

Edited June 2, 2015 by rue721

[SueB]

I think you're right that Rowena has *something* up her sleeve, because she spent the whole season maneuvering people into place, but that maneuvering still hasn't paid off for her. She's got the Codex now, but even that is only useful if she's got a plan to *do* something with it.

 

I'm still sort of wondering why she was going on about how similar she and Charlie are. She seems like she likes to recruit young women to be her minions (the prostitutes and Charlie, at least). Maybe she's trying to form a new coven? Or she wants young women to use as vessels for someone/something else?

 

She also clearly has the power to kill Crowley herself, so I wonder why she wanted Sam to do it? Maybe because she figured Sam would fail, Crowley would kill Sam, and then Dean would be Crowley's mortal enemy? Idk, that seems so pointless and indirect.

 

I also am not sure that she wants Crowley dead. Or at least I don't understand why she would. She showed up because it's useful to her that her son is King of Hell. Well, he's still King of Hell, so it seems like he could still be useful to her. So why's she trying to dethrone/kill him? She's not even trying to take over the role. It seems counterproductive for her.

 

 

I don't know whether Dean failed or not. It wouldn't just depend on what God would be looking for -- who knows if it was even God setting up the test?

 

(Rowena also had to sacrifice the person she held dearest to break the "curse" -- who set up *that* test? Could it have been the same person who set up Dean's? Crowley supplied the ingredients for Rowena's test/spell, which makes me wonder if he somehow Shanshu Prophesy-ed that spell, Sahjahn-style,*** so that it contained exactly the ingredients he wanted it to include. Especially since he'd just found out about the demon lover, and it wouldn't have been a bad guess to think that the same demon lover would have to be Rowena's sacrifice for the spell, and Crowley could find out the demon lover's identity and about Rowena's past that way)). 

 

Dean refusing to sacrifice Sam, even to (ostensibly) save the world, makes me think back to 1x22 (Devil's Trap) -- when Dean was so gutted that he shot that possessed man through the head to save Sam. Here's the line from the transcript:

 

Dean: Killing that guy, killing Meg. I didn’t hesitate, I didn’t even flinch. For you or Dad, the things I’m willing to do or kill, it’s just, uh .... it scares me sometimes.

 

 

If Dean failed the obedience test by refusing to sacrifice the person dearest to him, then that means Rowena passed it...

 

Early on in the season, Sam and Crowley seemed like they were mirroring each other -- Crowley stepped into Sam's place as Dean's bff, etc. In this episode, Dean and Rowena's stories were mirroring each other similarly to how Crowley and Sam used to. I wonder how the show could/might play with that next season.

 

I guess maybe the point is whether it's a good thing or not that Dean is not obedient anymore, and whether it's a good thing or not that the Winchesters would (apparently) let the world burn if it meant sacrificing one of them.

 

This season seemed like it was all about collateral damage in terms of people that were barely a blip on the main characters' radar -- maybe next season will be about the main characters as collateral damage? If that's the case, then I hope that JDM comes back for at least one SL about it, because Sam and Dean are definitely collateral damage of his demon-fighting, lol. And I hope Yellow Eyes comes back, too. But then, I ALWAYS hope that John and Yellow Eyes come back, so. *shrug.*

 

 

I think that the bearer of the Mark would be a *pre-fall* Lucifer stand-in? So maybe it's more like:  pre-fall!Lucifer = Dean, post-fall!Lucifer = Sam (and Michael is alllllll Adam's, I guess. Lol)?

 

Though, since I don't really know anything much about Michael-the-Archangel outside of this show's version of him, I'm not all that attached to the Michael = Dean parallel, personally. And Lucifer and Sam never really seemed all that alike to me, and weren't even "disobedient" for at all similar reasons, as far as I know, so I'm not all that attached to that parallel, either. But YMMV.

 

Nobody has the Mark now, right? That's why THE DARKNESS!!1! was released? I would *think* that both Rowena and Crowley had to have realized that that's what would happen if she succeeded with this spell, since it's the kind of thing they both seem knowledgeable about, but I don't have any idea why either of them would want The Darkness released. Or what was up with them working together to get that done, but with Cas acting as their go-between and while still essentially giving each other the silent treatment (though tbh, behavior like that is why they are now in the running for my favorite family on the show).

 

***From Wikipedia:  In order to confuse Angel and his friends, Sahjhan alters the passage in the prophecy about his death; the passage now reads "The Father Will Kill the Son", leading Wesley to the conclusion Angel will kill Connor.

ETA:

 

Wait wait, what if Dean looked so shocked when he cut into Death instead of lopping off Sam's head, because that was God (or whoever was running the test -- so, not the Mark, or Dean himself) guiding his blade? Maybe he and Sam were granted the reprieve at the last second, just like Abraham and Isaac were?

See, I optomistically believe that Dean PASSED the test. Abraham and Isaac was a loooooong time ago. Humanity has matured since then. I think God would want Dean to make the RIGHT choice- which was not to murder his brother. Hang with me here... Death was the authority figure (vice God himself) AND it sure seemed like killing Sam would prevent Sam from ever removing the Mark (and thus unleashing the darkness), BUT IT WAS STILL MURDER. It was still wrong. And yes, Dean had already crossed a few lines. But this was different. And not because Sam was his brother. It was an act of hopelessness if he killed Sam. An act where Dean gave up. Running thru Dean's other questionable kills:

- Thinman - Dean lacked the situational awareness of what the Mark wanted

- Lester - demon

- Randy and the Rapists - Dean was mentally unstable/out of control

- Cain - stopped an unrepetant Genocidal demon

- Styne family - surgically altered uberhumans who employed black magic

- Geek Styne - not an unambiguous innocent. Normal Dean would have spared him but there was reasons to believe he was also a monster.

But Sam? Sam had done shady stuff in the distant and recent past, but Sam is still an essentially good person. Sam was trying to save Dean and was willing to risk a potential unspecified 'bad' rather than have Dean dead or exiled to isolation for eternity. And Dean was not masking a Mark-fueled decision. He was pretty calm.

So, I can rationalize that under the circumstances, Dean had no justification for murder except for obedience to Death. And Death doesn't make those calls. It's why Dean had to swing the scythe.

I may not be making sense, but I think Dean made the right choice.

[supposebly]

I would have thought stopping the apocalypse WAS the test that humanity had evolved and that Free Will trumps obedience.

 

I just don't know what the test was for? To prove he wasn't, in fact, Cain, the brother killer? Maybe it's just me but that was never a question that was of any urgency. Even ignoring the fact that JP isn't going anywhere.

I was actually hoping that would have become a problem. But it really never was, at least in my mind. Sam was never in any real danger. The whole scene felt so entirely unnecessary and artificially dramatic. It also basically means that we still can't trust Sam not to endanger the fate of creation since apparently he will move heaven and earth to find Dean, so instead he must be killed.

Just, ugh. Well, we are right, apparently, since Sam couldn't be bothered to warn them that the mark was about to be removed.

 

Even worse, killing Sam also would have completely removed the chance of stopping the removal of the mark. But apparently, Sam, didn't really care about stopping that. He'd rather have a tearful scene sacrificing himself for who knows what and wait for the mark to be removed.

 

I'm still so mad with that scene. Do they WANT me to just roll my eyes and point and laugh at them?

Edited June 2, 2015 by supposebly

[Aeryn13]

 

Well, we are right, apparently, since Sam couldn't be bothered to warn them that the mark was about to be removed.

 

There just is not Earth logic in that scene I can see. It`s like Sam forgot that the Mark would be removed - and thus apparently the darkness unleashed - in T minus 2 seconds. I would have expected him to frantically grab his phone and dial but be too late so we would get another "oops, apocalypse" moment.

 

And then he agrees to die like some noble gesture but tearfully hands Dean photos that are supposed to remind him of his goodness and bring him back to love "some day". Well, when is that day supposed to be? It has to be AFTER the darkness is unleashed. And with the way Death told it, your days should be numbered after that, Well, maybe Dean alone would survive in a barren world crushed by the darkness. In which case, his ability to love would be of tertiary importance at best.

 

But the absolute kicker was "this is a good thing" after the fact.

 

I get that Sam didn`t completely understand or believe the new backstory of the Mark. But the gist of it was still "very bad, very apocalyptic thing SURE to happen once the Mark is gone". Does that not deserve ANY consideration? Like, at all? It didn`t even seem to be a blip on the radar screen for Sam. He really appeared surprised that the very bad thing Death said would happen once the Mark was removed DID happen in the end. 

 

Dean killing Death was stupid. But at least, as far as he knew, he would only remove his chance to be removed from the playing field. There could still be options to deal with him. 

 

I really can`t see any test in this because in the face of "do not do this or the apocalypse happens" and you don`t even mention you already did this, let alone try to stop it, who cares if one brother kills another? Like, both their lifes combined are not worth a hill of beans compared to basically the existance of creation.  

 

If they want to have their "secreths and lieths" theme next Season, they will have Sam actually not tell him about the spell. Which means Dean will believe killing Death randomely removed the Mark and brought about the darkness and was therefore his fault. Think of how much wangst can be milked out of such a ridiculous construct.

[supposebly]

 

If they want to have their "secreths and lieths" theme next Season, they will have Sam actually not tell him about the spell.

 

Until Cas tells Dean about it around in episode 10. And then in the second half of the season, we will have another one of those Dean-accusing-Sam-about-causing-an-apocalypse-seasons.

 

I just can't go through another one of those. I just can't. And this time, there is absolutely no character reason why Sam did that. None at all. Do they WANT me to hate Sam?

[catrox14]

I can't hate Sam here. I hated him in s8 for not looking for Dean...and I really hated him for the Purge speech. In s4 he was just a dumb bunny because reasons and Ruby sex and demon blood but he literally had an entire season of episodes to stop doing that and fight the backsliding into demon drug land. I just more like WTF ARE YOU DOING SAM...

 

But here. I just think he believed he couldn't really trust Dean's or Death's word on the 'Darkness" is a terrible, horrible, no good really bad thing and that maybe he was just eternally hopeful and truly wanted to believe that his love could be enough to help Dean as the mirror to what was apparently the idea in s5 that Dean's love would be enough for Sam to be successful against Lucifer.

 

UNLESS and this is a big unless, Rowena had already hexed him in some way into not being his smartest self. I mean he did touch the Hex bag when he gave it to Crowley. So MAYBE it served a dual purpose.  OR the editing was just totally sloppy and everything was actually happening simultanteously and the impending spellwork was killing cell phone signals...and carrier pigeons were all grounded

 

.....I got nuthin'...

Edited June 2, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

I don't hate Sam, I just don't get what he was supposed to be thinking. He knew that they were going through with the spell right then, didn't he? So why wasn't he doing more to throw a wrench in Dean's ostensible plan to kill him and exile himself? Why did he just kneel down and wait for Dean to cut off his head?

 

Sam was already committed to getting the Mark off Dean, come hell or high water, so I don't really blame him for just shrugging aside all the warnings about THE DARKNESS, and shrugging aside any other reasons to give up on getting rid of the Mark/give up on Dean, too. I think he felt that getting the Mark off would prove that what he said in The Purge about letting Dean die actually was a lie, and that he really is loyal to him, and his need to do that was crowding out all his other concerns. That's selfish and self-absorbed and irrational and all, but at least makes enough emotional sense that I can roll with it.

 

But then when he actually confronted Dean, and Dean told him that he was basically planning to have the Mark forever, and would kill Sam to ~save the world~, Sam just sort of went along with it? Even though he'd been completely dedicated to saving Dean and his plan to do so was 99.9% complete? That's the part that I really can't wrap my head around.

 

Maybe giving Dean the family photos and stuff was just an attempt to stall? To give Rowena time to finish the spell? It didn't really come off that way, though.

 

Honestly, I should watch the episode again, because I wasn't exactly glued to the screen and probably missed plenty. But eh. Maybe in another week or two. It wasn't The Worst, but it also wasn't an especially enjoyable or entertaining episode imo, so it's hard to get up enough enthusiasm to give it another try so soon.

[Aeryn13]

 

In s4 he was just a dumb bunny because reasons and Ruby sex and demon blood but he literally had an entire season of episodes to stop doing that and fight the backsliding into demon drug land.

 

I didn`t have any problems with him in Season 4 while it aired because back then I figured that the purpose behind magnifying everything I didn`t like about the character was for the express purpose of growing him out of it. So, I didn`t mind the dark period because of the glorious redemption sure to come. Then came the anti-redemption which actually validated everything I didn`t like and that what soured Season 4 for me in retrospect.

 

However, I still didn`t partcularly blame him for the apocalypse. Killing Lilith was an honest mistake. Even though I saw hubris there, nothing, absolutely nothing made me think that if someone came in and told him "yo, killing Lilith will break the last seal" before the fact would have led him to go "well, I don`t give a flying fuck, I came here to kill her so that`s what I`m gonna do". If he had known, he would have stopped. Even if he didn`t 100 % believe it or question it, he would have stopped. The stakes were simply to big to not stop. 

 

This was entirely different. And I do believe the episode itself was badly edited together. The scene with Death for sure was longer because there were even bits in the promo that didn`t air. However, this was for all intents and purposes the "someone got to him in time and told him about Lilith" scenario. And he didn`t stop. 

 

And even then, if at least they had presented it like a choice, like he was all "fuck this, you know what, I care about my brother more, consequences be damned" like they had him say previously in the episode and episodes before, it would be a horrifying choice to me but at least I could see internal logic in it. At least it would have been a motivation.

 

But not how they did it. The scene played as if Sam was adamant about the spell, told them to do the spell, was convinced they were doing the spell, then came to the Mexican restaurant and...forgot the spell ever existed. He worked towards this goal for at least the entire second half of the Season and about 20 minutes into the Finale. And then he forgets everything about this in the next scene? That is the worst writing and editing I have ever seen in my life.

 

When the spell actually happens, I`m guessing - only guessing here - that this is when Sam internally goes "oh yeah, that". And yet, it is completely unfeasible that he would have forgotten. So you have to assume it is in the back of his mind. Which means nothing he does or says makes any sense in that scene.  

[SueB]

I don't know why everyone presumes Sam knew the spell was imminent. When last he left Cas (with the baggie of Dean's hair ... which will never stop being fun to me), he didn't know how Cas was going to get the other "impossible" ingredients.  He knew nothing of Crowley's involvement.  Now yes, Cas and he could have been on the phone but maybe Cas didn't call Sam because he didn't want him to know that he literally went begging to Crowley.

So... Sam IMO only knew they had the LIST of ingredients.  And he thought getting them was impossible.  So, I don't hold him responsible for not making a call after Dean didn't kill Death.  And I can see him not making a call before nearly dying because 1)'Screw You Death' may have been going thru his mind and 2) he was kind of busy getting ready to be murdered by his brother. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

I don't know why everyone presumes Sam knew the spell was imminent. When last he left Cas (with the baggie of Dean's hair ... which will never stop being fun to me), he didn't know how Cas was going to get the other "impossible" ingredients.  He knew nothing of Crowley's involvement.  Now yes, Cas and he could have been on the phone but maybe Cas didn't call Sam because he didn't want him to know that he literally went begging to Crowley.

So... Sam IMO only knew they had the LIST of ingredients.  And he thought getting them was impossible.  So, I don't hold him responsible for not making a call after Dean didn't kill Death.  And I can see him not making a call before nearly dying because 1)'Screw You Death' may have been going thru his mind and 2) he was kind of busy getting ready to be murdered by his brother. 

Given that Sam was hellbent on making sure that spell was going to take place, I don't think it's the audience pulling it out of their collective ass. Considering all the lying and betrayal and colluding he did to ensure the spell was at least being worked on, you'd think he'd could have just said....HOLD UP....can we put off lopping off my head for like a hot minute..."

[AwesomO4000]

Until Cas tells Dean about it around in episode 10. And then in the second half of the season, we will have another one of those Dean-accusing-Sam-about-causing-an-apocalypse-seasons.

 

I just can't go through another one of those. I just can't. And this time, there is absolutely no character reason why Sam did that. None at all. Do they WANT me to hate Sam?

Sometimes I genuinely wonder if they do *... either that or the writers are just going to find any way possible to make Sam the scapegoat. And if that means that Sam had to know what is going to happen but still go through with it anyway, then that's what he does. The weird thing is that Sam can't seem to win with the writers' logic no matter what he seems to try to do and/or choose in the plot. Using some scenarios presented as examples:

 

In season 4, Sam chooses Ruby, revenge, and potentially trying to stop the apocalypse over Dean even though Dean has warned him repeatedly about Ruby and his need for revenge. Sam is "punished" for it by starting an apocalypse. Even though I could sympathize with some of what Sam did, in-story he was blamed for starting it multiple times throughout the following seasons without it really being questioned or contradicted in the narrative.

 

In season 6, Sam chooses to help Dean and have his back no matter the consequences to himself. He gets 180 years of hell memories but doesn't really succeed in saving the world or helping Dean. He basically fails anyway.

 

In season 7, Dean chooses revenge even though Sam warns him what it could be doing to him. But apparently Sam is wrong and revenge is good when Dean does it, because Dean saves the world when he exacts revenge.

 

In season 8, Sam doesn't sacrifice everything to look for Dean, but instead supposedly decides to choose himself and a "normal" life. This is of course "wrong" and everyone and his brother (literally) criticize hm for it.

 

In the season 8 finale / season 9, Dean potentially throws away helping the world to choose Sam and sacrifices Sam's agency to save him. Sam complains vehemently, pointing out that the world should've come first. But Dean is correct, Gadreel is good and because Dean chose Sam, Gadreel helps to save the world.

 

In season 10, culminating in this episode, Sam again chooses to go ahead with some revenge. This time against Crowley, but of course it backfires and Crowley potentially becomes a more powerful enemy. Sam also chooses to help Dean, against Dean's will and despite the fact that there could be consequences (partially the opposite of season 4) and as a consequence... he starts another apocalypse. Wait... what?

 

What is the message here? Because just last season, Dean did a very similar thing - he chose Sam over potentially helping the world and he disregarded Sam's wishes - and it was mostly the right thing to do, resulting in helping to save Sam, Charlie, Castiel and the world. Same with the revenge scenarios. Dean takes revenge twice - good happens both times (the YED is dead, he saves the world) Sam takes revenge twice - bad happens (he starts the apocalypse, he makes a bigger enemy of Crowley). So it seems to me that the message seems to be that if Sam does something, it's the wrong thing to do... no matter what it was.

 

 

* which is why I generally don't. The more they try to make me hate Sam and project their strange biases onto him by having him do out of character or nonsensical things, the more I balk at their manipulation.

 

 

This was entirely different. And I do believe the episode itself was badly edited together. The scene with Death for sure was longer because there were even bits in the promo that didn`t air. However, this was for all intents and purposes the "someone got to him in time and told him about Lilith" scenario. And he didn`t stop. 

 

And even then, if at least they had presented it like a choice, like he was all "fuck this, you know what, I care about my brother more, consequences be damned" like they had him say previously in the episode and episodes before, it would be a horrifying choice to me but at least I could see internal logic in it. At least it would have been a motivation.

 

But not how they did it. The scene played as if Sam was adamant about the spell, told them to do the spell, was convinced they were doing the spell, then came to the Mexican restaurant and...forgot the spell ever existed. He worked towards this goal for at least the entire second half of the Season and about 20 minutes into the Finale. And then he forgets everything about this in the next scene? That is the worst writing and editing I have ever seen in my life.

 

When the spell actually happens, I`m guessing - only guessing here - that this is when Sam internally goes "oh yeah, that". And yet, it is completely unfeasible that he would have forgotten. So you have to assume it is in the back of his mind. Which means nothing he does or says makes any sense in that scene.  

 

I agree. Cynical me thinks that it's a "consolation prize." The logic behind it would mean that Sam is an idiot, "but awww look, he cares about and listened to his brother" ... except that he didn't really, because he didn't call off the spell, because Carver also wanted Sam to start the apocalypse again. For some reason which I can only assume is so that Sam can be blamed for it again for the next how many ever seasons are left to go. Because if they wanted an apocalypse for next year, there were conveniently at least two bad guys who could have started it right there and had the means to do so by using the Book of the Damned or the demon tablet... but noooo. We have to introduce a new thing in the last 15 minutes or so that we've never heard of before, but conveniently makes it all Sam's fault if he saves Dean. And not just a vague "bad will happen" but actually release The Darkness - which Death told him was bad.

 

At this point, I'm so cynical, I almost expect killing Death to be a good thing in the end - or at least have no consequence at all - because that seems to be the way this show rolls nowadays. I mean ,okay, I get it. Sam is Scully. He never gets to be right. * But does he also have to be stupid and cause all the disasters too? I mean not even Dean becoming a demon had the awful consequences Sam has managed even just by trying to do good. Where is the logic in that?

 

* With one exception - sort of. He was kinda wrong about that also. He mostly got lucky.

 

 

If they want to have their "secreths and lieths" theme next Season, they will have Sam actually not tell him about the spell. Which means Dean will believe killing Death randomely removed the Mark and brought about the darkness and was therefore his fault. Think of how much wangst can be milked out of such a ridiculous construct.

 

This would piss me off to no end, but I think would probably prove what Carver now thinks of Sam. At one point he seemed to really like the character. I don't get that vibe any more. Mostly because I knew from several episodes before this one that it was pretty much all going to be blamed on Sam.

[AwesomO4000]

I don't know why everyone presumes Sam knew the spell was imminent. When last he left Cas (with the baggie of Dean's hair ... which will never stop being fun to me), he didn't know how Cas was going to get the other "impossible" ingredients.  He knew nothing of Crowley's involvement.  Now yes, Cas and he could have been on the phone but maybe Cas didn't call Sam because he didn't want him to know that he literally went begging to Crowley.

So... Sam IMO only knew they had the LIST of ingredients.  And he thought getting them was impossible.  So, I don't hold him responsible for not making a call after Dean didn't kill Death.  And I can see him not making a call before nearly dying because 1)'Screw You Death' may have been going thru his mind and 2) he was kind of busy getting ready to be murdered by his brother. 

 

Oh I wish, SueB, but if I'm remembering correctly there was a scene somewhere where Sam asked Cas to get it done and Cas promised he would, and there was a bunch of urgency, etc. since Dean was off the reservation. So they covered that as well. And once Sam was dead, who would be there to tell Cas to stop trying with the spell? Dean didn't know. So Sam not calling Cas still may have eventually resulted in the mark being broken somewhere down the line no matter where Dean ended up. Sam was the only one present of the three who knew, and once he was dead, no one else would've known to stop the presses so to speak.

 

Nope Carver made sure to sink Sam really well with this one. Perhaps on purpose or perhaps by not thinking it through, but sunk nonetheless after logic is applied to the actions.

[SueB]

Oh I wish, SueB, but if I'm remembering correctly there was a scene somewhere where Sam asked Cas to get it done and Cas promised he would, and there was a bunch of urgency, etc. since Dean was off the reservation. So they covered that as well. And once Sam was dead, who would be there to tell Cas to stop trying with the spell? Dean didn't know. So Sam not calling Cas still may have eventually resulted in the mark being broken somewhere down the line no matter where Dean ended up. Sam was the only one present of the three who knew, and once he was dead, no one else would've known to stop the presses so to speak.

 

Nope Carver made sure to sink Sam really well with this one. Perhaps on purpose or perhaps by not thinking it through, but sunk nonetheless after logic is applied to the actions.

Let me clarify - I don't think Sam bought into what Death was selling.  He couldn't beat Dean so he was going to let himself be killed rather than fight Dean over it.  But Sam still had hope Dean would be cured.  I think that's why he gave him the photos.  I don't think he wanted the process to be stopped. And the two minutes he had to make a decision, I think that's the decision he made. He'd go along with the plan and hope that Cas would eventually save Dean. Now if he had time to learn more about the potential "Darkness" he might have decided Death & Dean were right that the Mark should not be removed at this time. But he was not down with his brother spending eternity in isolation holding back "The Darkness".  Talk about a fate worse than Death! (sorry, the pun... it was right there).

 

To some extent both Death and Dean underestimated that Cas would follow through without Sam. 

 

And I'm not convinced that stopping the Darkness would have been the right answer.  There's just something MISSING in Death's story.  Now personally I never would have taken the chance but after everything Sam and Dean have been thru, I guess I could see Sam deciding that Death was unreliable and to trust his own instinct (save Dean).  I hope it works out for him because Sam has always failed to save Dean.  Since the series didn't end right there, I'll hazard a guess that it'll be BAD but they'll find a way thru it. 

 

As for urgency, I certainly think that Sam conveyed the urgency to Cas but I don't think he had any info to say that removing the curse was going to be within seconds. And after Death was killed, I wonder if he was going to tell Dean and let him choose? My guess is not. At least not without knowing more about "The Darkness".  Because Sam was "pulling a Dean Winchester". He was going to save Dean whether he wanted him to or not. Given more time, maybe he would have halted the process to sort out how to keep the Darkness at bay.  But he was out of time and he went with his gut. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by SueB

[AwesomO4000]

Because Sam was "pulling a Dean Winchester". He was going to save Dean whether he wanted him to or not.

 

This is true, but apparently if Sam tries to pull a Dean Winchester, it all goes to hell... maybe literally. Which was pretty much my complaint in my other post above. The cards often seem stacked against Sam: even if he does something similar to what Dean's done in the past, the results are generally much worse for Sam.

 

And I'm not convinced that stopping the Darkness would have been the right answer. There's just something MISSING in Death's story.

 

This would be nice and a nice surprise, but Carver didn't seem to imply that from his ending thing. Something about things going from bad to worse for the Winchesters in season 11. I'm expecting things to go pretty much as we've seen, so that way I will be prepared for if it does and pleasantly surprised if it doesn't. Also if it does go as expected, I hope that at least Sam gets to fix it. He's more than due to have an important moment.

 

I hope it works out for him because Sam has always failed to save Dean.

 

Well he did cure Dean from being a demon, but since Dean still had the mark, the victory was only a temporary and/or partial one. So basically yeah, I agree with you there and wholeheartedly. It's about time Sam gets to really save Dean for once.

[DittyDotDot]

I don't know why everyone presumes Sam knew the spell was imminent. When last he left Cas (with the baggie of Dean's hair ... which will never stop being fun to me), he didn't know how Cas was going to get the other "impossible" ingredients.  He knew nothing of Crowley's involvement.  Now yes, Cas and he could have been on the phone but maybe Cas didn't call Sam because he didn't want him to know that he literally went begging to Crowley.

So... Sam IMO only knew they had the LIST of ingredients.  And he thought getting them was impossible.  So, I don't hold him responsible for not making a call after Dean didn't kill Death.  And I can see him not making a call before nearly dying because 1)'Screw You Death' may have been going thru his mind and 2) he was kind of busy getting ready to be murdered by his brother. 

 

Yeah, I think Sam was a little busy at the time and a tad preoccupied, probably didn't realize or even consider the spell was happening right then. And I definitely don't think Sam was buying Death's warnings about the Darkness--probably mostly out of wishful thinking--so I'm not sure he saw the urgency there. I'm sure there will be plenty of blame to go around next season, though. It is Supernatural, after all.

 

Personally, I didn't think Sam was really submitting to having his head lopped off, but it was part of his plan to bring Dean back. I think he was banking on Dean not killing him when it came down to it. First he tries to talk him down, but that wasn't working, so he punches him--trying to get through to him with a slap, so to speak--of course, that doesn't work on an amped-up Dean. So he changes tactics and submits, and then throws his Hail Mary with the photos. It was a gamble, but I think it was a risk he thought he had to take to get Dean back. And, even if Dean did follow through Cass would still working on the spell. So Dean would still be saved even if he wasn't there to see it. It's very similar to what Dean was trying to do in Swan Song, IMO.

 

And, I agree SueB, I'm not sure doing it Death's way will turn out to be the right call either. Hey, maybe Death knew Dean wouldn't kill Sam and was just dicking with them? Maybe he wanted to bring on the end? He has been known to be weary of this planet and all.