S07.E23: Hollander's Woods

[verdana]

Here is a pic of Nathan and Stana just after his swing broke (I guess it was minor and he was ok):

 

I heard about the fall poor guy, it's funny initially I guess when you're watching on but it's no fun for the person involved and I don't think his back is a 100% either, it can't have helped.

 

And they do build the swings, that's what a fan tweeted who was watching when they set it up. 

 

Shut down the political career idea already and just put Beckett on the Captain track.  No delving into the disappearance mythology until later in the season, if at all, unless they can do it well.or something

Unlike last season this finale will give them some goodwill in the bank so they had better not squander it with Beckett announcing the start of her Senatorial career and Castle suddenly decides he should go back to investigating his disappearance. The former is unworkable and I'd never revisit the latter as I predict it's not going to engender much fan excitement or boost ratings.  

 

Billionaire Vaughn, DC guy, and now these politicos, it's the same script over and over again.  Yes, I get it, you want to hit me over the head with your anvil about how Beckett is amazing.   Less is more, writers.  And real extraordinariness from a character doesn't need to be pointed out; it should just be felt.

 

Absolutely, I don't need to be force fed this information in the most clunky way imaginable with the now eye roll worthy moment where someone appears out of nowhere and within seconds is reminding the audience of her greatness. Hope the new showrunners change this approach. 

 

And it's too bad I feel this doubt when the relationship between the team only should have grown more solid by now.  Caskett solidly have each other's backs but I don't know about the boys and Castle.  I'm not even sure Esposito respects Castle's abilities as a writer and a cop helper.

It's strange that their relationship has got weaker not stronger over the years. I don't see much respect there either, they respect Beckett absolutely and are loyal to the core but Castle? Not based on what I've seen, it feels sometimes as if he's tolerated due to Beckett but that's about it. 

[madmaverick]

I do like the episode better on rewatch.  I think this episode along with the wedding episode are the Milmar collaborations from recent seasons that I like more.

 

Forgot to credit the opening loft scene, which I thought was nicely done.  Nice 'head' humour and nice, easy familial dynamic.  One thing that has definitely improved this season is the weaving of Beckett into the family.  Rapport feels very natural now.  Although I still think it was a lost opportunity that the early steps in the new relationships weren't explored back in S5.  Maybe next season they can try some new things and give us some new character pairings from time to time. There's still plenty they haven't tried there.

 

The psycopath shrink's speech about the real mask being the face he's forced to wear, and the porcelain mask being the monster he knows himself to be -- that was legit creepy.  Nicely done.

 

Agreed.  I liked that whole scene in the doc's office.  Castle was compelled to press and the doc was compelled to answer, and Beckett was a bit wary of what Castle would do.  Nice tension to the scene.  It was chilling without being over the top.  The other suspect with the dead mum was creepy too.

 

-- The whole Hollander's Woods story.  I, like others, rolled my eyes when it was first explained/flashbacked.  Oh look, ickle Ricky Rodgers found Voldemort in the forbidden forest!  I expected it would be terrible.  But I confess, when they found the picture of the girl who had been murdered then and he grasped it and looked at it -- that's when I got hooked.  The idea of your personal boogeyman being real, confronting that -- meh.  But finding the identity, the actual human being-ness of this unidentified corpse in your memory.... that's potent stuff.]

 

Yep.  The filming/editing of those scenes were better than I imagined.  I could actually get involved in Castle's torment and turmoil every step of the way as he figured out it really was real, and the victim was very, very real.  The personal element worked for me and I wish they'd had more time to explore it, as well as go deeper into the killer's psyche.  Voldemort!  Hehe.  Good description.  Props to 11 year old Ricky Rodgers for actually calling the police even from a pay phone because I don't know that everyone would do that, even adults, after having a knife pressed against your neck and seeing a dead body.  I was afraid Castle might be having a sense of guilt from not saving someone from being murdered as a kid, but he did what he could here.

 

And Ricky Rodgers was wearing an overlarge sportscoat + plaid even at 11 years old!  Thanks, Luke!  So that's where Castle's fashion sense comes from... ;)

 

Ryan/Espo's anniversary, the family moment at the beginning that did not feel forced, Gates/Beckett, Castle/Beckett (swings, apartment) were all nice moments and I think this what this show does best: focusing on little moments that build up relationships. This is what I love about Castle.

 

 

I hope they can make those all important little character moments a feature of every episode next season.  TPW has a good track record of writing those so I hope him being showrunner bodes well for them being attended to.

 

I noticed that they didn't use that shot shown in the episode photos released previously of Beckett with her arms crossed on her chest.  Beckett/Stana had a lovely love eyeball look in that shot so I wish they'd kept it in.

[vanarnd1]

I just couldn't really get into this episode for the most part. The ending was a nice change from the last 2 season finales, and there were a few nice Caskett moments, but the majority of the 42 minutes didn't have much to offer IMO. It felt like a cross between "Sleeper" and "Watershed" Castle suddenly having a memory about a past drama, going from never talking about it to being determined to get answers. Not being believed by his "brothers in arms" Ryan and Espo and having to prove to everyone that he is right. Beckett being offered a job that doesn't fit her and that she only seems half-hardheartedly interested in but that random high ranking people are convinced she is suited for(which was presented in a ridiculous way IMO). I think it was an unimaginative finale that written as a hedge for the show being renewed or canceled. It could have been worse I suppose, but IMO this episode was an example of how the show has run out of steam creatively and needed new leadership.

[McManda]

I wonder if any significance will be made of this being Castle's first kill. Probably not due to the hiatus usually equalling a time gap, but I wish it had been mentioned. Over 150 cases and he had never killed anyone. I can't imagine it wouldn't affect him.

 

I think it's the first time Castle has personally killed anyone, but I don't think I'd classify it as his first kill. Like KaveDweller mentioned, everyone thought he killed 3XK, though I guess he wasn't convinced on that point. But he's also almost killed before - he arguably almost killed Lockwood and didn't hesitate threaten death to the guy he thought kidnapped Alexis for example. And going even further back he had no problem taking a head shot at Scott Dunn. And it's not like death isn't his life. He's seen more dead bodies than most anyone else will ever see. He writes about death.

 

I think he's got a pretty good handle on the concept and while I think killing anyone might be something anyone would struggle with, I also think Castle knows and could make peace with the idea that he had no other choice.

[roomtorome]

I would prefer it if they had her decide to go to law school and pursue justice (civil, criminal, social) from that angle instead of elevating her to the senate - what makes her qualified for such a run or office?  Not that most are qualified but why this storyline?

 

If she did go to law school at least, I could see her having time and leeway to help out on cases - not sure how that will fly as a candidate.

 

But, maybe I'm still stinging from the utter crap they turned the Good Wife into with her duller than dirt campaign run and outcome.

 

But - it would be a bit of nod to her mom, it would take her on a different path just not one that suddenly turns her into an elected official without even ever having been captain or chief - it's ridiculous.

 

I would have liked it as series finale.  I think they have pretty much wrung out what they can - but, who knows.

[shapeshifter]

I personally hope that it's not addressed and all will be left in this episode.  I want next season to get back to the fun that this show should be and has been.

If they decide to address Castle's post-kill PTSD in part with him attending group therapy, it could be both dark and funny, like the show has always been. They could have a group member who is a serial killer (who Castle, Beckett, and the boys take down), and they can also have some comical moments, like trust exercises, or sillier exercises that I can't think of.

[femmefan1946]

I would like to see them start with a classic, lighthearted Castle episode.  Or a special version of one like Caskett solving a murder on holiday or something.  Something special outside of the precinct.  Shut down the political career idea already and just put Beckett on the Captain track.  No delving into the disappearance mythology until later in the season, if at all, unless they can do it well.or something

 

That sounds perfect to me too.

But.

I can see how to work the political thing in eventually. Beckett makes Captain. She could conceivably bring Espo and Ryan along with her, I would think officers change precincts from time to time, just as all three have worked vice, drugs and gangs at earlier points in her career.

But while she turns down the offer flat, especially when it was presented in such a sneaky and insulting way, the idea could start to itch at her. Just as Castle moves to writing that political thriller, which could turn into the serious Pulitzer winning work the time traveller mentioned.

While on maternity leave, for the triplets (she isn't getting any younger as I keep telling my DD) the idea of politics starts to sound more interesting and both Alexis and her dad encourage her.

So wife, mother, decorated police captain with a 'sweep out corruption' background? And more polite wooing as a candidate?

It could work. In my AU anyway. Or possibly Season Eleven.

[verdana]

I would prefer it if they had her decide to go to law school and pursue justice (civil, criminal, social) from that angle instead of elevating her to the senate - what makes her qualified for such a run or office?  Not that most are qualified but why this storyline?

 

The law school angle is more sensible since the seeds have been planted before in a way that seemed natural (mom was a lawyer so is dad, Beckett studied pre law etc) then the Time Traveller crap they suddenly threw into the mix.  She has certain qualities that on paper look good but they're negated by many other things at least in RL. Looks like MilMar did this because they wanted the symbolism of Bracken being taken down as a political heavy weight and she rises up to as the hero to take his place and some are getting behind the idea of how perfect it would be without thinking what it could mean for the character and the existing premise of the show. Given the announcement they've gone, this was them tying up all the loose ends and bringing that story back into focus for their personal sign off - at least they didn't get her to say yes and land the new showrunners with a problem.

 

Good job she's married to a millionaire author since she's going to need someone to help bankroll her trip to the Senate and then on to become President. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by verdana

[Gant]

So based on the good feedback I watched the finale and, surprisingly, really enjoyed it. When the afterglow passed though, I realized that it was not due to the writing and plot at all. IMO it works because of the still excellent chemistry among the cast, several good performances, and let’s not forget the overall nostalgic feeling permeating the episode that makes it more dear to a fan’s heart. When you shake off this “we grew up together” attitude, the charm of apt delivery and some good acting moments, you see that plots are still improbable and thoughtlessly cooked up on the spot, direction is sometimes anvilicious and pompous, dialogues are very generic, and all that is concealed and elevated by such intangibles as acting, chemistry and your own positive attitude :). This is of course IMO. I’m gonna rewatch it and see if my enjoyment holds or maybe even increases, who knows. But so far the main writing achievement for me is that they left characters more or less alone to do their thing (compared to other finales), and didn’t write something super convoluted in their relationships to prevent the chemistry flow. So… thanks for not meddling too much, I guess.

 

I was checking out this board and live tweets during the episode, and have to agree with Wendy and others, I didn’t see anything offensive in “Beckette” whether it was a typo, an autocorrect or an inside joke. English is not my native language, but to my ear it doesn’t sound insulting at all. Am I wrong, are there some connotations I don’t know about? It’s not like he called her Shmekket or whatever :). I laughed at this exchange, and also liked self-reflecting Esposito :).

[shapeshifter]

So based on the good feedback I watched the finale and, surprisingly, really enjoyed it. When the afterglow passed though, I realized that it was not due to the writing and plot at all. IMO it works because of the still excellent chemistry among the cast, several good performances...

...I was checking out this board and live tweets during the episode, and have to agree with Wendy and others, I didn’t see anything offensive in “Beckette” whether it was a typo, an autocorrect or an inside joke. English is not my native language, but to my ear it doesn’t sound insulting at all. Am I wrong, are there some connotations I don’t know about? It’s not like he called her Shmekket or whatever :).

You are right, Gant, IMO, regarding both of these points.

[verdana]

Michelle C. Bonilla @actressmbonilla  ·  14 hrs 14 hours ago

These two are gents! @NathanFillion @seamusdever thank you for making my day on @Castle_ABC so fun! #actors #Castle

https://twitter.com/actressmbonilla/status/598308262849617920

 

Michelle C. Bonilla

‏@actressmbonilla

Great Day on the set of @Castle_ABC - @Stana_Katic was SUPER nice & just wonderful to work with! #Castle #actorslife

https://twitter.com/actressmbonilla/status/598292322384621568

 

[pepper]

I don't think "Beckette" was a typo. He's spoken about his mother being an English(?) teacher and how he was brought up with the expectation of proper use of language. And the first explanation that it was to shorten the name turned out to be wrong. Perhaps Beckette was an inside joke - but I'd question the timing of an inside joke while live-tweeting an episode. Or perhaps it was meant to generate discussion or to "mess with people who analyze everything" as someone suggested up-thread. None of the possible explanations make NF particularly likeable to me. YMMV 

 

ETA I started off liking the guy. Now I like Castle and I can take or leave him. I was just responding to the immediate "explanations" that sprang up for the spelling. I stopped reading his interviews when I read about his great amusement at feeding pork drippings to unknowing vegetarians, so I get information on him only from the reactions... 

Edited May 13, 2015 by pepper

[madmaverick]

It’s not like he called her Shmekket or whatever :).

 

 

Hehe, thanks for the laugh.  Who can forget Schlemming?  'Beckette' is how they say it in France!  Quel horreur, je blague!

 

People who don't like NF (or any other actor, or person, really) are always going to find reasons for their dislike.  That's what I've observed from Castle fandom, and in life.  I just find it amusing mostly how worked up people get over the tiniest things.  It becomes a crime when a sense of humour isn't shared.  How dare he?!

 

Gant, I did enjoy the episode more on rewatch.  I think you're right about the power of nostalgia and the built in goodwill and comfort level we have with the characters and the actors.  Sometimes that's enough to elevate the material, and the chemistry and acting definitely help.  And perhaps our expectations are quite lowered, especially for finales, by this point.  I did find Castle's backstory here more interesting in the way it was executed compared to that stuff with Damien his high school friend/murderer and cheating on some essay, which really was weak sauce.

 

I laughed at this exchange, and also liked self-reflecting Esposito :).

 

I couldn't take that "badass" line seriously in the episode but at least it was good for some laughs.

 

It's time for Castle and Esposito to have a more meaningful exchange, but that takes more effort to write than going for the cheap jibes. 

 

Good job she's married to a millionaire author since she's going to need someone to help bankroll her trip to the Senate and then on to become President.

 

 

Verdana, Luke when asked about yet a different choice of sleepwear for Beckett, did mention that since Castle's a millionaire, he can buy a gazillion robes for his wife.  He's probably too busy out shopping for Beckett's wardrobe to remember his own. ;)  That said, that was a nice (expensive, I bet) robe on Beckett but I still say robe less wins in the bedroom.  The less, the better. ;)

 

Can we start a wishlist for S8 thread or where should we direct our discussion for the future of the show?

Edited May 13, 2015 by madmaverick

[WendyCR72]

Can we start a wishlist for S8 thread or where should we direct our discussion for the future of the show?

 

Will this do?  :-)

[LeisureTime]

I finally finished season 7. I've always liked Wallace Langham, so seeing him be wonderfully creepy here automatically gives the episode a few points in my mind.  And I really think Castle and Beckett have a chemistry that *works* so that's fine too.

 

But I found myself very distracted by Ryan and Esposito's "man-iversary." Maybe I need to do some research into the typical career projectory of police, but I wouldn't have pegged Ryan for older than 26 in the premiere, and if they'd been working for two years, he'd have been 24 when he started at the 12th in homicide.  Which means his tenure as the best little undercover agent in narcotics would have been 23-24 at a max, and is that even reasonable? Especially since it was just the episode prior that he was talking about a college improv group. I find it hard to believe he was a drop-out, although that could explain why he's so gung-ho about building a college fund for his one-year-old.

 

Plus, and maybe this was just bleed over from Seamus Dever being the new guy on the show after they dropped the McNulty actor, but the relationship between Ryan, Esposito and Beckett certainly didn't feel two years strong.

 

I'm fine with them acknowledging their first case -- in fact I think that was a nice touch in what very well could have been a series finale -- but tossing the number in there was just a needless distraction.

Edited August 7, 2015 by LeisureTime