Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[Camera One]

As for sending Emma to jail, that was a cowardly move to keep Emma from attempting to look for Neal, and make August's job easier.

 

That makes a lot of sense.  It was the easiest way to keep Emma "occupied" for awhile, to kill time until the 28 years were up.  

[Dianthus]

As much as getting locked up for a crime she didn't commit sucked, prison seems to have been good for Emma. It gave her some badly needed stability to get herself back on track.

[KingOfHearts]

 

As much as getting locked up for a crime she didn't commit sucked, prison seems to have been good for Emma. It gave her some badly needed stability to get herself back on track.

I agree. It's not like that she was totally innocent, either. She already attempted to rob a convenience store, broke into a house and attempted to steal a car before she even met Neal. Then after that she went on her big shoplifting spree under a bad influence. I'm not saying that she deserves to go to jail or that it's some sort of karma, but it did help get her head on straight. After that she came into catching criminals instead of being one. (Though there's no telling how much time it took for her to do that.)

[Mari]

After that she came into catching criminals instead of being one. (Though there's no telling how much time it took for her to do that.)

True.

 

And maybe not as much time as people imagine; she'd've likely been given lots of opportunities while locked up.

 

The organization would have very strongly pushed her to get a degree--and a lot of places offer tutoring to help people pass a GED test.  There are also places that offer online college classes, and other classes.   

 

Because of her age, she might have even ended up at something a step down from prison; in my state, even if you are convicted as an adult before you are eighteen, you are sent to the state's youth facility, which has an on-grounds high school, and ranges in severity from single bunk cells with limited privileges, to more of a dorm-style with a movie/game room and regular swim night privileges.  Where you end up depends on a combination of your behavior while there and what crimes you committed.  You only move to the adult facility when you are eighteen.  (And if you were charged as a juvenile, you can stay in the youth facility until you are twenty.)

 

*Not that I'm excusing/approving August and Neal setting her up and then taking off, but it's likely the reason Emma finished school.  It forced her to stay in one place longer than she would have, otherwise.

 

**And, considering Henry was comfortably 10 when he and Emma met, she had to be only 16 or early 17 when convicted, and it was a (if I recall correctly) a nonviolent crime?  I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was tried as a juvenile, which means she'd've gotten a lot more support after she was discharged.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Mari

[Dani-Ellie]

If I recall correctly, she was convicted as a juvenile. When Sidney ran the story about how she had Henry in jail, she went to Regina pissed because the records were juvie records and were supposed to be sealed.

[Serena]

Thank God she has Hook to be her man-friend!

[YaddaYadda]

Thank God she has Hook to be her man-friend!

 

Seriously.  Emma is still very much alone if she doesn't have him.  The way her walls shot up yesterday was frightening.

[Emma]

I want Emma to grab Hook and go. Leave the rest behind and go be happy in your own little world.

Got damn. Her parents suck. Especially Snow. I don't think they can ever fix that relationship for me again.

[Shanna Marie]

It just occurred to me that in the previous episode (the Hook and Ursula story) they had yet another case of Emma not getting the chance to react to the possibility that Hook might be dead. She had about half a second to look stricken at Ursula's news before she had to worry about her mother being choked, and then he walked in. She was clinging to him in the background of the rest of the scene, but her response to the news that he was dead was limited to "Gasp! Oh, wait, he's okay."

 

Coming after her not knowing he was in mortal danger until the last second, when she was then frozen, and we never got to see the immediate aftermath, I'm starting to wonder if this is deliberate. Are they building to a big, more serious incident in which she'll really have to react to the possibility that she's lost him, so they don't want to dilute that by showing a big reaction to all his minor jeopardy moments? Or I suppose it's also possible that they just don't care and don't imagine that anyone wants to see her being all that worried about him.

[RadioGirl27]

Coming after her not knowing he was in mortal danger until the last second, when she was then frozen, and we never got to see the immediate aftermath, I'm starting to wonder if this is deliberate. Are they building to a big, more serious incident in which she'll really have to react to the possibility that she's lost him, so they don't want to dilute that by showing a big reaction to all his minor jeopardy moments? Or I suppose it's also possible that they just don't care and don't imagine that anyone wants to see her being all that worried about him.

My speculation for the season finale is exactly this, Emma and Hook being separated by something (a curse, a villain, him falling through a portal, you name it). So, yeah, maybe they are keeping Emma's break down over loosing him for then. Or maybe they just don't care.

[Curio]

I'm going to put money down on "just don't care."

[YaddaYadda]

Are they building to a big, more serious incident in which she'll really have to react to the possibility that she's lost him, so they don't want to dilute that by showing a big reaction to all his minor jeopardy moments? Or I suppose it's also possible that they just don't care and don't imagine that anyone wants to see her being all that worried about him.

 

My opinion is that it's probably building to something.  I mean we can run down a list of incidents where he could have just plain died this season.  Icicles, heart, drowning, and in none of these incidents did he save himself.  Emma saved him, Belle saved him, Ariel saved him.  So him rattling off how he is good at surviving, no, you're not good at it, you're just born under a fucking lucky star.

 

I don't think the whole him dying that has been foreshadowded earlier in the season has played out.  I know a lot of people think it was Rumple trying to crush his heart, but I don't think that was it at all.

Edited March 31, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

So him rattling off how he is good at surviving, no, you're not good at it, you're just born under a fucking lucky star.

Or he has a guardian angel racking up some serious overtime and probably developing a drinking problem.

 

I don't think the whole him dying that has been foreshadowded earlier in the season has played out.  I know a lot of people think it was Rumple trying to crush his heart, but I don't think that was it at all.

Well, when you look at what's most likely to turn someone dark on this show, it's the death or loss of someone they love, so if Rumple wanted to turn Emma dark, killing or cursing Hook would be the best way to do it right now, since she's currently pissed at her parents and Hook is not only someone she loves but also her primary source of emotional support who's the person most likely to be able to hold her back from the darkness. If her parents or Henry were killed, Hook would be there for her and might be able to save her. If he's the one who's lost, I doubt she'd get much support from anyone else. She's barely speaking to her parents at the moment, and even if they did try to comfort her it would probably be in a hamfisted way that would only make her angrier (like suggesting that now that the pirate's gone, she could find a nice man). Henry's so caught up in Regina's life he wouldn't even notice if Emma burst into flames.

 

And if we'd been seeing Emma freaking out and grieving at each time Hook nearly got himself killed, then it wouldn't be quite the Shocking! Surprise! when she went dark because of losing him (or believing she lost him). They have generally edited it so that it's not that she has no reaction, but either doesn't get to have one before he's safe or her reaction is just offscreen, so they're not necessarily establishing that she's calm every time he nearly dies. We'd get compassion fatigue if we had to watch her have an intense emotional reaction whenever he was in jeopardy, since he does seem to be this show's Damsel in Distress.

[jhlipton]

Is anyone really surprised at how the current poll is going?  It's only the outlier votes that are interesting.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not surprised.  The results is exactly what I voted.

 

I don't care about Rumbelle, so there's that.

 

Snowing is a very established couple, we got their story via flashbacks, and they're sort of the original romance on the show.

 

I hate OutlawQueen.  I really can't stand Robin for one thing, I think they turned who Robin is supposed to be into a total douchebag and I think Regina actually deserves better than that smarmy jerk.  Regina showed a lot of growth when it came to the whole relationship thing.  She had to remind him that he had a wife, she told him he should fall back in love with his wife.  And then there's the whole fairy ordained soulmate/true love or whatever the writers are peddling.  There's the missing year in which there was a huge missed opportunity where they could have had OQ fall in love and they didn't.  I get that Regina didn't wanna be happy without Henry, but now she doesn't wanna be happy without Robin and it's all eye roll worthy.  So missing year, missed opportunity.  They could have done stuff in flashbacks for OQ this season.  There's the crypt sex, just say no to the creepiness of that and while Marian was frozen.  I think there are more reasons why I'm not on board with that.

 

And as much as I hate OQ, I just love Captain Swan.  They're everything OQ isn't.  And I'm just not gonna go into it because I might still be typing for another hour.  They took Hook, a villain and turned him into a character I can root for.  They took Robin, a hero and turned him into this version.  I'll never look at Robin Hood the same way after what Once did.

[Camera One]

The results of the poll are pretty obvious based on the posts on this board.  A "none of them" option would have been nice for those who don't care too much about the romantic entanglements on the show.  

[Rumsy4]

Not surprised at the trend, although I am surprised that Snowing are apparently someone's least favorite couple. Was that because of the trainwreck of the latest episode, or something else, I wonder...

Edited April 3, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

It's too bad Rumbelle isn't considered a current couple because that would make the least favorite couple race a more interesting one.

[Mari]

It's too bad Rumbelle isn't considered a current couple because that would make the least favorite couple race a more interesting one.

True.  How do you pick between the creepy, controlling, and delusional relationship, and the instalove, cheating, cryptsex relationship?  So much  blech.

[OnceUponAJen]

It's too bad Rumbelle isn't considered a current couple because that would make the least favorite couple race a more interesting one.

I really wanted to choose Rumbelle as my least favorite couple. I hate the way he treats her.

Edited April 4, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Zuleikha]

Was that because of the trainwreck of the latest episode, or something else, I wonder...

That was me, so I can answer that. It was partially due to lack of Rumbelle as a choice (who would have been my least favorite by a mile), partially because of the trainwreck of the latest episode, and partially because Snowing have been around longer than Outlaw Queen so I feel more secure in my dislike of the Snowing dynamic. I've never been the hugest Snowing fan. After outright hating David Nolan in s1, I warmed up to them as a couple in s2 to where I was indifferent to them, but then in season 3, I think they regressed to bringing out the worst in each other. Snow becomes whiny and hysterical; David is wishy-washy and enables her worst instincts. They encourage each other to lie for no good reason but then also seem to encourage each other to never feel bad about their misdeeds.

 

I still have hope that I may like Outlaw Queen in the future (since I liked them fine in 3B and the horror of the Marian subplot cannot possibly be repeated) whereas I've given up hope that I'll like Snowing. It was a tough choice because I hate 4A Robin more than I hate Snowing, but I decided that some hope should still trump no hope. 

[KingOfHearts]

I find it fascinating that Outlaw Queen's problem isn't Regina. You'd think any relationship with her would be very problematic, but it's more about Robin and the writing. I probably find it worse than Rumpbelle because at least Rumpbelle had its day in the sun. OQ has been bad from the start.

[Serena]

I mean, the problem IS mostly Regina. Robin is the one acting like a jerk, but it's because of the Woegina blind spot the writers have. Otherwise, Robin may have been allowed to act like her murdering his son's mother is actually a bad thing.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Serena

[KAOS Agent]

I think they regressed to bringing out the worst in each other. Snow becomes whiny and hysterical; David is wishy-washy and enables her worst instincts. They encourage each other to lie for no good reason but then also seem to encourage each other to never feel bad about their misdeeds.

 

I agree that Snowing as written lately is actually not such a great couple in the True Love brings out the best in each other sense. What the hell is David doing going along with letting Snow allow her fears to drive them to kidnapping and essentially stripping two babies of their free will? A good partner would stop her from doing so and convince her to have hope and optimism or whatever they usually spout off about. The fact that he continually supports her stupid ideas is a huge issue for me. Why did they need to kill the medusa? What did she ever do to them? Who made them the judge of whether a baby is a monster before it's even born? No matter how much they support each other after they make really, really sick mistakes, it's pretty bad that David isn't strong enough to tell Snow when she's wrong and encourage her to be the better person before they go off and do stupid things. They don't seem to complement each other as well as they should because David caves to all of Snow's worst traits instead of countering them.

Edited April 4, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[KingOfHearts]

I mean, the problem IS mostly Regina. Robin is the one acting like a jerk, but it's because of the Woegina blind spot the writers have. Otherwise, Robin may have been allowed to act like her murdering his son's mother is actually a bad thing.

They're both at fault here. Regina can't see that's he's a cheating pig and he can't see she's a murdering psychopath. But Regina has voiced the most reason (shocker) in this situation, and although she's not perfect, Mr. Iconic Hero of Super Special Code should know better.

(And I'm not talking about the meta writing problems. Just the context of the characters.)

Edited April 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

On Regina's side, there's that sense of entitlement and blowing things out of proportion, that because she stopped murdering and cursing people, it means she's entitled to a happy ending, which means getting everything she wants, right now, which means having Robin, and her life is utterly ruined if it doesn't happen that way, so she needs to speak to the management about whatever has screwed things up for her, because obviously if people were doing their jobs, she would have the perfect life and be happy with Robin, Roland and Henry, and no pesky Marian to get in the way. Without the slightest ounce of guilt that she was the one who caused Robin all that pain he told her about. She seems to believe that her right to a happy ending trumps that of one of her victims. And then although Robin was the one who went against his so-called code and went back to her, that didn't mean she had to greet him with open arms and be happy about it. She could have told him she didn't sleep with married men whose wives were cursed. It takes two for adultery to happen.

 

On Robin's side, there's the issue that he doesn't seem to have the slightest problem with the fact that Regina was the one who took his wife away from him in the first place. Then there's the fact that he said he was going to stick to his code and stay with his wife because of honor, which went quickly by the wayside while his wife was under a curse, even though he believed that the only way to save her was with a True Love's Kiss that required him to fall back in love with his wife. And the added ick that it was remembering the sacrifices his wife made for him that made him justify sleeping with Regina -- if you love someone, you'll overcome anything to be with them, so Marian gave up everything for him and he gave up his code for Regina. That's even lamer than the "my wife doesn't understand me" rationale. And the final nail in the coffin was that it had to be Regina who suggested to him that maybe he shouldn't just send his wife and child out into a strange world, alone. He didn't actually think of this for himself because he was happy about getting to stay with his new squeeze.

 

I would say that if Rumple and Belle had been on the list, it would have been a tough choice, but currently in canon, that "relationship" is more creepy stalking than a relationship, since she's moved on and all that remains of any relationship is him either talking to her unconscious body or impersonating her friend to get her to talk to him.

[Serena]

So, we were discussing in the Spoiler Thread Sean's use of the words "kindred spirit" to describe OQ. That has been usually used by writers and actors to describe CS, and sometimes Neal and Emma. The "two EF people totally coincidentally meet in the real world" thing happened to Emma and Lily too, so depending on how she's now, maybe even them. 

But this got me thinking, what Once couples are really "kindred spirits"? Not Rumbelle. I honestly think they have nothing in common. Snowing? Snow's characterization swings around so much, I couldn't say. Is she full of hope or prone to depression? I would say they have a similar worldview, except Snow tends to sink into depression and Charming hasn't done so yet. 

[YaddaYadda]

Actually, what I want to know is what's the difference between True Love. soulmates and kindred spirits.  I think it was this past SDCC where A&E were asked about the difference between true love and soulmates and they did not know how to explain it or what to say about it.

 

ETA - I find the whole true love and true love's kiss to be just meh and boring now.  I know that these are fairytales and that true love and TLK is a staple for that, but I can say that since Snowing's kiss in season 1, I feel very meh because everyone has true love and everyone can TLK the hell out of something.

Edited April 7, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[HoodlumSheep]

I've always thought True Love and soul mates could be different from another, but also could be one and the same depending on the situation.

Like you can have a True Love, but your soulmate could be like your best friend or something(it doesn't have to be in a romantic sense).

Hmmm...I'm not sure what to consider Snowing. The one thing I always like about them is that they are a unit, team, etc. even when they screw up royally.

OQ is more "opposites attract." I'd go as far to say that the whole pixie dust/fated idea is more ideal for them than "kindred spirits."

Edited April 7, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

Obviously, these people haven't bothered to define it, but the way it seems to me to be playing out on the show is that:

 

Soulmates -- destined for each other, don't have a lot of choice in the matter

True Love -- something that develops between a couple over time in the course of their relationship

Kindred spirits -- people who see the world in a very similar way due to their experiences, personality and interests

 

It would be possible to be all three -- you're destined for each other, your lives develop so that you end up having a lot in common, and then as you build a relationship it turns into true love. But I think you could be soulmates without being kindred spirits -- you're fated for each other and connect on that level but have nothing in common. And it might not develop into true love if you fight it. You can also have true love without being fated soulmates. I find it hard to believe that you could really develop true love without being kindred spirits in at least some respects because it seems like you'd need to have something in common, but this is fiction, so I suppose the opposites attract thing can work.

 

The problem with applying terms to Robin and Regina is that the relationship is entirely undeveloped. There's been pixie dust, a lot of kissing, and fate conspiring to keep them apart, but the only common ground they seem to have even tried to find was their conversation about having lost someone, which was undermined when his lost love returned to him and he didn't want her. We don't know if they could possibly be kindred spirits because we don't know enough about their goals, interests and values, other than that they both seem to be pretty selfish, so I guess they're kindred spirits in that respect.

 

But I suspect that in that interview he was seeing soulmates and kindred spirits as being the same thing. I would disagree because I think that if they really were kindred spirits, they would have connected in the missing year before she saw the tattoo. They wouldn't have had to necessarily get involved if she was in "I can't be happy without Henry" mode, but there should have been some click of connection and of seeing issues from the same angle. Instead, they were snarky at each other and came to things from totally different viewpoints, which is more of an opposites attract relationship than a kindred spirits relationship, to me.

[FurryFury]

I don't give a damn about labels like "soulmates". In fact, I find the whole idea not just cliched and soapy, but offensive, because it implies lack of choice. It's something that needs to be deconstructed, like, yesterday, but it never is. And also, very few romances written as "epic" can actually pull it off (which is pretty sad because all of my OTPs are "epic" to an extent - I guess I love angst and drama too much to truly invest into a stable couple who hook up in a season and peacefully settle down). 

 

As for the "kindred spirits" line... Honestly, in this case, it's clear Sean is just using set phrases to talk up his romance. It doesn't seem like he belongs to the JMo school of creating their own backstories and motivations and basically fanwanking their characters. His character is paper-thin, and so is his romance with Regina. It's hard to find something actually positive about this whole abhorrent and contrived thing, so he has to resort to cliched phrases.

Edited April 7, 2015 by FurryFury

[KingOfHearts]

Back before 3B, or even in early 3B, I thought Outlaw Queen might have had a shot based on the "opposites attract" trope. He's a thief with honor, she's a queen with no rules. Perhaps the show could have harped on that a bit with one being interested in how the other lives and what was missing from their lives that the other one had from the other side of the spectrum. Unfortunately, Regina's pinecone and forest aroma insults were the full extent of where this show wanted to go with that principle.

 

If they're "soulmates" as the canon says, you would think they would have more similarities than the desire for crypt sex. We have absolutely no reason to believe these two should be together besides labels. I thought Regina might see Roland as a sort of replacement for Henry when she thought she'd never see her son again. Her strange fixation on children could have been a factor in the relationship, but that wasn't touched on hardly at all either. Outlaw Queen had the possibility of working at first, but after some missed opportunities and the Marian fiasco, it's closer to creepy than kindred. 

[OnceUponAJen]

Let's just say that I don't agree with the actor's interpretation of the relationship. Because I disagree and see things differently, that doesn't mean that I'm disrespecting him or his opinion. Actors have to find their own interpretation and motivation to make the character work for them. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Serena]

I don't give a damn about labels like "soulmates". In fact, I find the whole idea not just cliched and soapy, but offensive, because it implies lack of choice. It's something that needs to be deconstructed, like, yesterday, but it never is. And also, very few romances written as "epic" can actually pull it off (which is pretty sad because all of my OTPs are "epic" to an extent - I guess I love angst and drama too much to truly invest into a stable couple who hook up in a season and peacefully settle down). 

The sad thing is that they seemed to be deconstructing it in season 1. We knew from the Pilot Snow and Charming were TL... but when she lost her memories of him, TLK didn't work, because it was not predestined, something that was "there" before they even met. It's the choices they made to fight for each other and be good to each other that CREATED their True Love.

 

And then there's pixie dust.

[FurryFury]

No, what I'd want is a full-blown, dark deconstruction. You know, a show or a movie that starts out like a typical urban fantasy/paranormal romance YA drama and then suddenly (or not so suddenly) shifts to truly explore the ramifications of having a pre-set love interest that you're destined to end up with. I think it could be fun. Just imagine the screams of the shippers! But that's off topic :) 

Edited April 7, 2015 by FurryFury

[Shanna Marie]

I don't give a damn about labels like "soulmates". In fact, I find the whole idea not just cliched and soapy, but offensive, because it implies lack of choice.

I absolutely hate the predestined loves trope, and it strikes me as lazy writing. You don't have to write a real relationship because you can wave your magic wand and say it was meant to be, and therefore it is. It's way overused in paranormal romance, and a big reason I just don't bother reading it anymore even though I like fantasy and I like romance. There are way too many books about couples who can't stand each other, but they're somehow destined for each other, and that makes their libidos go into overdrive when they're anywhere near each other, which they hate because they hate each other, but they just can't resist because of that destiny thing. And eventually, after lots of sex, they decide they're in love, and they maybe don't hate each other, but we're given no reasons why they might actually like each other.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a destined lovers story in which the two people actually seemed to be made for each other, where they liked each other, got along great, finished each other's sentences, were sexually compatible, and had common values and interests -- and then they learned they were fated for each other and it was a case of "oh, that explains it." You could still have conflict and angst if it were a Romeo and Juliet situation, where they were from opposite sides of a conflict, and therefore their hitting it off made things complicated. Just imagine rulers of enemy countries meeting at the treaty table during a war and clicking instantly. That would be very inconvenient because both their kingdoms would be like "oh, hell no!"

 

The thing with Robin and Regina comes close to the paranormal romance cliche. She found him annoying -- and even said so -- until she saw the tattoo. He seemed to think she had a great ass and therefore was down with it when she started somewhat warming up to him (because of the tattoo). So the only thing that changed for her was knowing he was destined for her. She was rejecting him otherwise. They haven't spent enough time together to know if there is anything else between them other than kissing and sex in a crypt. That's why it's really hard to take her claims that she's not being allowed a happy ending because she lost him all that seriously.

[Curio]

As far as the audience knows right now, I'd say Robin and Regina definitely aren't kindred spirits. However, since we know so little about Robin and he's so two-dimensional at the moment, I could easily see the writers molding and manipulating his past to align more with Regina's. Then I could accept a "kindred spirits" comparison. But for the moment, I think the "opposites attract" trope is more at play here. Basically, the biggest things connecting those two right now is their love for the young sons (which is the closest thing to kindred they have going), the fact that they're destined to be together via the pixie dust and tattoo, and their sexual attraction for each other.

 

All of this talk has made me realize that the main reason I don't like the Robin/Regina pairing is because I don't even know Robin as an individual character. I think it's clear that the writers intended for him to play a big part in the series as Regina's love interest, so why didn't he get the Hook treatment where he got an introductory episode by himself? (And I don't count the episode with the other actor in it.) In The Crocodile, the audience was made plenty aware that Hook was going to be an important player. We've never gotten that with Robin.

 

In fact, I couldn't even describe to you what Robin's personality is. Usually, I can come up with some fan-ficy scenes in my head and play out each of the characters' voices and how they would react to a certain event. But I don't even know where to begin with Robin, except that maybe he'd bust out his bow and arrow and say something about a "code." I have more to say about character "voices," but I think I might move that to the Writers Thread.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

Characters like Belle and Robin are never going to be a priority in the narrative of ONCE. The main characters of the show are Emma, Regina, Snow, and Rumple. Even Snow's importance is debatable, as her back story mainly tends to serve Regina's. As such, the love-interests of these four characters will always be less prominent, and their main roles is that of supportive partner.

As the (technical) heroine of the story, Emma's love-interest gets more prominence than Robin, Belle, (or even Charming, these days). That's why Hook has been given greater development than Robin or Belle. We also see her romance develop slowly in real time, rather than in flashback, and they made it a point to give Hook's backstory right away. With this bloated cast, and multiple parallel storylines, they simply can't do more with the other supporting characters.

[Zuleikha]

All of this talk has made me realize that the main reason I don't like the Robin/Regina pairing is because I don't even know Robin as an individual character.

Yes, that's what I think the main problem is for me, too. I think there have been some nice Robin/Regina moments--I really liked the conversation they had about their dead loves--but Robin is basically a collection of quirks. He pickpockets, uses a bow and arrow, has a son, and has a code that doesn't seem to directly impact his life. I don't dislike him, but I'll never understand the choice the writers made about how to portray the Robin/Regina relationship in the Missing Year. I read somewhere that they wanted her to be closed off to love because of her grief over Henry, which if true, could have been a nice choice... if there'd been time to put that clearly on the screen. Since there wasn't, I think it would have been a better choice to use those scenes to show what drew Robin/Regina together in the first place.

[Serena]

I agree with Rumsy, but knowing this show's all-encompassing love for Regina, why did they half ass her love story/endgame so much? It's baffling to me, since we've had an episode about it each time she stubbed her toe, but when it's about her main romance, they don't even try?

Then again, maybe this is them trying.

Or maybe they are so in love with Regina they can't bear to write a romance for her? Like those fangirls who hate any possible love interest of their fave as unworthy. Maybe that's it!

Edited April 7, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

I think it's fairly simple in OQ's case.  It comes down to whether or not the show actually puts Sean on contract or not, even if they lock him only for a year.  I was surprised they didn't do it last year, but given what we've seen this year, they would have had one more actor sitting around not doing anything like Michael Socha.  I thought MS being on the show would open a bit of a flood gate for Robin, but I was clearly wrong about that.  This show needs to start focusing on what it has as opposed to wanting this huge stories and characters that put the people who are already on the show deep in the shadows.

Edited April 7, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mathius]

I agree with Rumsy, but knowing this show's all-encompassing love for Regina, why did they half ass her love story/endgame so much? It's baffling to me, since we've had an episode about it each time she stubbed her toe, but when it's about her main romance, they don't even try?

Then again, maybe this is them trying.

Or maybe they are so in love with Regina they can't bear to write a romance for her? Like those fangirls who hate any possible love interest of their fave as unworthy. Maybe that's it!

It might be because a realistic romantic development would require:

A) Continued antagonistic interactions like they had in the EF before they truly fall for each other. It makes no sense that the amnesiac Robin in Storybrooke immediately fell for Regina despite knowing that she was the Evil Queen, when that very fact about her is what repulsed him in the EF. Robin is AGAINST oppressive monarchs, he doesn't fall in love at first sight with them. Regina would actually have to grow and change significantly for him to start liking her.

B) Even MORE antagonism on Robin's part once he learns Regina had killed Marian. It would mean even more significant growth and change from Regina so that Robin could gradually come to trust, forgive, and love her since he sees that she's a redeemed woman.

However, A&E not only seem incapable of writing all that interesting long-term development for Regina, but they also remember the outcry for Regina fans in S2 about how everyone was being "so mean to poor Regina", and knew that Robin would never be accepted as a love interest for her by these fans if he was "mean" to her. And so we have a romance happening with no internal conflict between Robin and Regina even when there should be (ESPECIALLY in regards to Marian), only external conflict (again, Marian).

Edited April 8, 2015 by Mathius

[Curio]

As the (technical) heroine of the story, Emma's love-interest gets more prominence than Robin, Belle, (or even Charming, these days). That's why Hook has been given greater development than Robin or Belle.

 

I think there might be a bit more to it than just that. Hook being the love interest for Emma does guarantee him some good screen time, but you'd think Robin would be getting similar screen time since Regina has wormed her way into becoming the co-lead of the show with Emma.

 

Personally, I think the writers are inspired by good acting and good storylines, so Colin's acting has probably made a huge impact on how important his role has grown on the show. It might have been David H. Goodman who mentioned in one of the episode commentaries that the writers will write more for a character if they're truly inspired by an actor's performance, which will compel them to want to keep writing storylines for them. Emilie might be a lovely person in real life, but she isn't the strongest actress on the show compared to the rest of the cast, so I think that's part of the reason why she hasn't gotten as much screen time, even though she's the wife of the show's main villain. The same thing might be the case with Sean.

 

B) Even MORE antagonism on Robin's part once he learns Regina had killed Marian. It would mean even more significant growth and change from Regina so that Robin could gradually come to trust, forgive, and love her since he sees that she's a redeemed woman.

 

Oh, gosh. Don't even get me started on this one. I honestly cannot comprehend how the writers managed to avoid that entire topic altogether this season. You'd think that would have been the huge obstacle between Robin and Regina during 4A, where he would struggle to come to terms with the fact that he was in love with the woman who sentenced his wife to execution. Obviously, Regina has changed as a character since then, but it's a completely bullshit cop-out to not even have Robin mention it on screen. It's Graham all over again! Gah!

[Rumsy4]

You'd think that would have been the huge obstacle between Robin and Regina during 4A, where he would struggle to come to terms with the fact that he was in love with the woman who sentenced his wife to execution. Obviously, Regina has changed as a character since then, but it's a completely bullshit cop-out to not even have Robin mention it on screen.

That's the kind of thing that makes Robin Hood fall flat as a character. Marian's return would have been enough of an obstacle without throwing in the part where Regina had been about to execute Marian. Why throw in that bit when it's a non-issue to everyone, including Robin? It's as though the writers were afraid to have Robin say anything negative about Regina.

I wonder if the writers had originally not planned to give Regina a present day romantic interest, as their Regina permaboner really only got going in S2. The Missing Year really was a huge wasted opportunity.

[Shanna Marie]

Part of the problem with Robin is that he's so generic -- he hasn't really been developed as a character, but he's also not really Robin Hood-y, so they aren't even relying on the archetype. He carries around a bow, but other than the breaking in to Rumple's castle (which mostly just involved opening a door), he hasn't done any of the archetypal Robin Hood things. We haven't seen him rob from the rich, we haven't seen him looking after the poor. We haven't seen him resisting the rulers. He's done nothing resembling swashbuckling. He has no backstory specific to this show, but he also doesn't fit the Robin Hood backstory in legend. He really could have been anyone. If they'd still been playing "guess the storybook character" like in season one, would we even have pegged him as Robin Hood? They could have taken just about any random character or made up a new one, and he wouldn't have had to be any different. They'd have just had to change his name and his wife's name. It was like they needed someone to be Regina's love interest and he was about the only major male character they could think of that they hadn't already used in some way that would make him unavailable (I guess they didn't count him being willing to risk death in Rumple's castle to save Marian's life as making him unavailable). They may as well have made him Ivanhoe, and he'd lost Rowena, but since that was pretty much an arranged marriage he wasn't quite as into her as he later was when he met Rebecca stand-in Regina. They'd have just had to change the names and the living in the forest part, but that code thing would work with all the chivalry stuff.

[KingOfHearts]

 

At the same time, I have a strong feeling that Rumple will die by the end of the series. So, Scarlet Beauty may yet have a future, because leaving any of the main cast without a romantic partner is apparently not an option.

 

This show just doesn't seem interested in them as a couple. All of their scenes together have been directly about other characters. Maybe it's just the show screwing up at portraying relationships again (*ahem* Outlaw Queen) and I'm just thinking about it too hard. It's all those Rumpbelle shippers forming angry mobs if Scarlet Beauty triumphs over their ship that I wonder if the writers feel like dealing with. But if Rumple dies with a big dramatic scene to Belle, there might be less backlash.

 

(Hm. Remember in 2x16 when Rumple gave a deathbed speech to Belle over the phone? I could totally see them doing that again.)

Edited April 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Part of the problem with Robin is that he's so generic -- he hasn't really been developed as a character, but he's also not really Robin Hood-y, so they aren't even relying on the archetype.

 

Not only is Robin generic, but his relationship with Regina is pretty generic, too. Do we even know what they do together for fun? (Besides crypt sex.) What are their similar likes and dislikes? Would Regina actually like spending an afternoon going crossbow hunting in the woods, or would she get annoyed by all the mosquitos and twigs? Would Robin feel bad living in a lavish mansion where most of the decorations could be sold and given to the poor? The only true "date" we've seen them on is drinking wine and having a picnic in front of Regina's fireplace.

 

(Quick aside: You know, for a show supposedly about true love, the writers are pretty unoriginal and boring when it comes to dates. Drinking wine on the ground comes straight out of a romantic comedy, all Snow and David ever do is take walks outside, and I know they were trying to do an homage to Lady and the Tramp for Hook and Emma's first date, but a restaurant dinner date is still pretty cliche. Why haven't we seen Hook take Emma out on an evening boat ride? Robin could teach Regina to shoot his crossbow. Snow and David could take Neal to the playground. Oh, sorry...those are boring "character" moments. My bad.)

 

I don't know why the show is good at developing some couples and failing at others. With Emma and Hook, they've dropped small hints here and there to tell the audience what they might like doing together as a couple. We know Hook is open to watching Netflix with Emma, they both don't mind childish food, they constantly have to trek through some manner of woods together, they both thrive off adventure, and they're not afraid to tease each other. Snow and David take walks together on the beach, clean the dishes together, take care of the baby, and apparently like cuddling in bed.

 

But with Robin and Regina...what do they even like to do? All I've taken away from the show is that they like to make out, have crypt sex, and pick up ice cream for Roland. Do they even have inside jokes yet? I feel like they don't even know each other that well. Could Regina name the make and model of Robin's favorite crossbow? Could Robin name the brand of Regina's favorite pant suit? I doubt it. And it's the lack of relationship development that makes me roll my eyes at how "destined" they're supposed to be and why I don't feel all that compelled to see them reunite ever.

[Rumsy4]

Would Regina actually like spending an afternoon going crossbow hunting in the woods, or would she get annoyed by all the mosquitos and twigs? Would Robin feel bad living in a lavish mansion where most of the decorations could be sold and given to the poor? T

 

Regina certainly would not like spending any time trekking or living in the woods. The same way, I don't see Robin having any objections to living in a lavish mansion. I doubt the Merry Men go robbing the rich of Storybrooke to feed the poor, especially as Regina would then be a prime target. The last we know, Little John was relieving some hapless convenience store owner of their property to benefit himself. Robin didn't even bring up the fact that Regina was about to execute Marian. Why would he suggest to Regina that she would need to downsize? ;-)

[YaddaYadda]

Not only is Robin generic, but his relationship with Regina is pretty generic, too. Do we even know what they do together for fun? (Besides crypt sex.) What are their similar likes and dislikes? Would Regina actually like spending an afternoon going crossbow hunting in the woods, or would she get annoyed by all the mosquitos and twigs? Would Robin feel bad living in a lavish mansion where most of the decorations could be sold and given to the poor? The only true "date" we've seen them on is drinking wine and having a picnic in front of Regina's fireplace.

 

This is exactly why I will never understand why they didn't build the relationship during the missing year.  I mean if they had done that and then played the relationship in flashbacks during 4A, it would have made so much more sense with the angst between Robin and Regina and it would have made it clearer that Robin really had moved on from Marian.  This whole thing was so poorly done and the relationship feels like an afterthought.  Even what Marian said about how so much time passed since she died, but that's not entirely true either.  Even if Marian died 30 years ago, everyone was in stasis for 28 years and Cora told Hook that it would not feel like it's 28 years (for them it was time barely passed).

 

OQ don't feel natural for me because of pixie dust and tattoos, another thing the show did wrong.  Why not have Regina fall for him before she sees the tattoo?  And yes, I call Robin a douchenozzle, but I kinda feel bad for the character because he has been twisted into a pretzel, but I'm not even sure why they did that to him in the first place and what he is supposed to fit.  

 

I find it interesting that in a show that talks about redeeming villains, they have taken Robin in another direction.  Now I'm not calling him a villain, thta's not what I'm doing and we know next to nothing about him, so hopefully they'll shed some light on the character.  I really, really wanna like him, but I just can't right now.

[KAOS Agent]

Sean said in one interview that he thinks Robin's happy ending would be to go back to that place before Marian came back and it was just Regina, Roland & Robin. I find that to be incredibly messed up. You know what would be a happier ending? One in which his young son has his mother alive and co-parenting with his father and step-mother, Regina. Why is everyone so black and white with these relationships? Why can't they write a healthy relationship where families are mixed and thrive? For a show that's supposedly all about hope, they sure are bleak. I guess you can't be truly happy in life if your previous love interest is alive and pursuing his/her own happy ending.