S05.E06: Episode 6

[helenamonster]

"I can't believe you would get a haircut the day after I've found out the man I loved is dead." (for two years)

 

Yeah, I mean, I've got some sympathy for Edith in this situation. It was rather self-centered of Mary to swan into the drawing room with a new haircut that she knew would grab everybody's attention when her sister was suffering, but this line came off as extremely petulant and ridiculous. The family should have been more supportive and attentive, but she couldn't expect them to just drop everything, especially when they didn't understand the depth of her relationship with Gregson.

[lucindabelle]

Thanks for the correction about Edith starting the fire. I honestly thought she threw it a different direction.

 

That said, how did Mary know what happened? Is she psychic?

 

Violet's new lady's maid is an idiot. Who wears a fur to a horse race? That alone strikes me as a firing offense since she obviously has no sense of decorum in dress (though better sense of decorum than Spratt had, yelling in front of Isobel).

[Clanstarling]

By Dr. Gregson, did you mean Dr. Clarkson?  If so, agree with your assessment of his character.

Damn. I originally wrote "the doctor, whose name I forget" and then Gregson came to me. Gregson, poor dead Gregson whose name sounded so much like the doctor's I never did differentiate them.

Edited February 11, 2015 by clanstarling

[Calamity Jane]

I spent the race-track scene completely confused as to which was which.  Perhaps that's the point, but it is really difficult for a viewer!

[Calamity Jane]

I am confused by the comments about attachment disorders. I could easily believe that going through a few primary caretakers before the age of conscious memory could have some effect on a kid and on their general feeling that the world will always be safe and stable, and that could affect them in the long run depending on their personality. But my understanding was that attachment disorders are a much more serious thing, caused by extreme neglect like kids in especially bad overcrowded orphanages with no primary caretaker at all throughout childhood. Marigold's situation seems like it might or might not give her some anxiety or other issues, but I would be shocked if it left her with an extreme attachment disorder. Maybe I am misunderstanding the use of the phrase.

I feel very bad for Mrs Drew and I wouldn't be surprised to hear her marriage has fallen apart, because that was a terrible thing her husband did to her.

I'm mainly annoyed that the writers set up a situation where there was no good resolution and someone had to get hurt.

I wonder how traumatic it was when Sybbie was left with a nanny who was abusing her and no one noticed for awhile?

Yes, this is my thinking exactly.  Not the best, but just so not the worst, by any stretch, and quite within the norms of the times.  This whole line of thinking would mean that no child who was adopted more than a little while after birth could grow up bonded with the adopted parents, and I just know too many examples to disprove that idea. Also, people who think all children react exactly the same to the same situations have not brought up any kids themselves.  

[RedHawk]

You have to love when [bates] says [Anna] doesn't want to have his kid because she thinks he's a murderer and she gives him that look, and he has to specify, no, not Vera. The other one.

If you think your husband routinely might be killing people to the point where there has to be clarification as to which dead person you are talking about... maybe he's not the best person to build a future with, Anna.

 

Just because Chattygirl's comment deserves to be brought back, and because I've re-watched the scene and find it endlessly funny. So if the police do indeed come back, yet again!, to Downton and arrest Bates, are any of the upstairs folks going to suggest Robert cut him loose? I mean, it's one thing for Cora to secretly retain a lady's maid who has admitted to being in prison for theft, it's quite another to keep employing a man who is TWICE arrested for murder! How is it that Bates keeps being -- or seeming to be -- in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

If Anna has to keep secrets from her husband because she's certain that he's going to go off and kill someone, yeah, maybe she needs to run off and join Edith in London.

Edited February 11, 2015 by RedHawk

[Avaleigh]

That said, how did Mary know what happened? Is she psychic?

Edith is the one who has made comments indicating that she started the fire so I think that's where Mary got the impression. Edith says she was "stupid" so to me it sounded as though she was taking some part of the blame for the fire happening. It also started in her room so there's that.

[helenamonster]

If Anna has to keep secrets from her husband because she's certain that he's going to go off and kill someone, yeah, maybe she needs to run off and join Edith in London.

 

I think Anna has suffered enough.

[RedHawk]

If Anna has to keep secrets from her husband because she's certain that he's going to go off and kill someone, yeah, maybe she needs to run off and join Edith in London.

I think Anna has suffered enough.

Oh, zing! You got me there. ;-)

[alias1]

If someone tries to kill me, but fails, it "ends up just fine" but that doesn't mean I have to forgive them.

 

Edith's Pamuk move was so wretched that in the modern would it would have ended their relationship. One of them would have moved two thousand miles away and never spoken to the other again. Mary doesn't have to let it go. 

Edith set out to murder Mary?  News to me. 

[Merneith]

"I can't believe you would get a haircut the day after I've found out the man I loved is dead." (for two years)

 

Probably the funniest line ever, and sums up horrible Edith quite nicely. She really tried to fuck up Mary's whole life with the Pamuk letter, and she deserves all Mary's scorn and then some. 

 

Not just Mary. Edith put the whole family at risk by hinting that this important person was murdered while canoodling at her family estate. Fortunately, a war broke out and distracted everybody or it could have been seriously ugly. (Imagine if Inspector Vyner had got wind of it!) Edith is again putting the family at risk by leaving her illegitamate daughter in the village.

 

You know - I hate calling her a whore but it's important to not lose sight of how the whole of Yorkshire would have reacted to the news that Lady Edith Crawley had a bastard child that she tried to pawn off on her villagers. Remember that awful nurse who was whispering horrible things to Baby Sybbie? That's what Marigold faces if the news gets out - only it would be from Everybody and it would be done openly and the whole county would agree that it was the right thing to do. Allowing Marigold to be around Sybbie would just increase the resentment toward her, as well, and inevitably cause problems for baby George because he'll be the one supporting them if they can't find reasonable husbands. It will taint the whole family and its reputation.

 

It's horrible and unfair I'm glad the world has changed - but that's Marigold's reality for the first fifty years of her life.  That's part of why I'm angry at Edith.

[SoSueMe]

I didn't get into the show until the scene where O'Brien caused Cora to slip and lose the baby so I missed all the Pamuk(??) stuff, darn it. I have very little patience for Edith and it sounds like maybe she is not always the downtrodden victim after all. Did she cause trouble in the Mary/Pamuk thing unintentionally or on purpose? TIA. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Did she cause trouble in the Mary/Pamuk thing unintentionally or on purpose? TIA.

 

She didn't direct Pamuk to Mary's bed, but she did intentionally tell the Turkish Ambassador that some shit of a sexual nature went down between Lady Mary Crawley and Kemal Pamuk before Pamuk was found mysteriously dead. This was in response to Mary teasing Edith about her dud of a date with Matthew and how she knew it was a dud of a date because Matthew had told her so. A bit overkill, particularly since Mary did come close to being ruined.

[shipperx]

She didn't direct Pamuk to Mary's bed, but she did intentionally tell the Turkish Ambassador that some shit of a sexual nature went down between Lady Mary Crawley and Kemal Pamuk before Pamuk was found mysteriously dead. This was in response to Mary teasing Edith about her dud of a date with Matthew and how she knew it was a dud of a date because Matthew had told her so. A bit overkill, particularly since Mary did come close to being ruined.

And Mary responded by making up an untrue fiction that Edith was using Strallen so that he would dump Edith, so Mary got her 'revenge'. At some point we should be singing Elsa's theme song from Frozen. There's been an entire World War, a dead Sybil, and a dead Matthew since then.

Edited February 12, 2015 by shipperx

[ZoloftBlob]

And a Dead Gregson! Don't forget the dead Gregson, you new hair cut flaunting bitch!!! :)

 

But yes. Its years and years later and a shitload of unpleasantness. Someone needs to grow up, I don't care who.

 

*My personal theory, that Matthew and Gregson became lovers in Scotland and faked their own deaths and escaped to Antigua is looking better and better :D

[Avaleigh]

And Mary responded by making up an untrue fiction that Edith was using Strallen so that he dumped edith, so Mary got her 'revenge'.

 

 

The difference of course being that one was ruining one opportunity vs all opportunities in addition to the problems it would have caused for the family in general. The other thing of course is that Edith lucked out in never having her family find out about what she did. Mary is the only one who knows how low Edith can go. Edith also could have gone to Strallan and told him the truth. Mary didn't have a way to counter what Edith had done whereas Mary's lie could have easily been exposed.

 

If someone tries to kill me, but fails, it "ends up just fine" but that doesn't mean I have to forgive them.

Edith's Pamuk move was so wretched that in the modern would it would have ended their relationship. One of them would have moved two thousand miles away and never spoken to the other again. Mary doesn't have to let it go.

at some point we should be singing Elsa's theme song from Frozen.

 

 

If somebody tries to ruin your life I can see how it would be tough to forgive them. That being said Mary has let the incident go and I don't think she's holding it against Edith. Edith has annoyed Mary in other ways like being the only one to slyly ask Mary in front of the family if they can see the sketches from Sex Week.

[shipperx]

The difference of course being that one was ruining one opportunity vs all opportunities in addition to the problems it would have caused for the family in general. The other thing of course is that Edith lucked out in never having her family find out about what she did.

There's one other difference: The Mary/Pamuk incident was factually accurate, the other not so much.

Regardless it's been nearly a decade for them and nothing came of it anyhow. We need to cue Elsa on a faux Nordic mountaintop by now.

[CeeBeeGee]

As a parent, I'm totally on Edith's side here.  There's no way I'd be able to stay away from my child.  Having her so close by must have been pure torture!  However, she and Farmer Drewe went about it totally wrong, and not letting Mrs. Drewe in on everything was a huge, huge mistake.  Anyway, JF seems to hate Edith as much as her own sister does, what with the plotlines that go everywhere and nowhere at the same time.

 

THIS!!!!!!  Edith is Marigold's MOTHER.  It's obvious she adores her, there's no way in hell she's going to be able to stay away from her.  Regardless of how she handled it, regardless of who was at greater fault, her or Mr. Drewe--Edith is that child's mother.  End of story.  I think it's naive to imagine she could've ultimately done anything else, or that Mrs. Drewe somehow has a greater claim on her (and perhaps Mrs. Drewe recognized that, as she gave in rather quickly).  Also, imagine Marigold's reaction when she gets older and finds out that nice Lady Edith who is so kind to her never actually took her in or acted as a proper mother--she would be devastated.

 

I wish it had been Edith to go to London and then return one day with bobbed hair. THAT would show them a thing or two. And then she could have announced, "Oh, yes, I've also brought my illegitimate daughter to play with her cousins in the nursery. Ta."

 

If only!  God, I would've loved that.  Why can't we get back the great writing and character development of the first season??

 

And what kind of idiot with no childcare experience thinks it's okay to drink while alone with a child.  I'm afraid Marigold may have a short shelf life here.

 

As many others have commented, this seems an overreaction.  Edith wasn't doing shots of Jaegermeister; she ordered champagne, and I"m sure the daughter of an English earl is used to it!  We WASPs have notorious heads for liquor ;)

 

Regarding Edith's childcare arrangements, I am sure Aunt Rosamund will come into play here.  Edith and the baby can stay with her and she can help them find a nursemaid.

I qualify this by saying I don't think she's made demands either... but JF is also notorious for running Downton Abbey as  a closed shop as far as the writing goes. Since that's not entirely the norm - a lot of shows allow the actors some input without it turning into the actor running the show (and yes I can think of several examples of actor demands ruining a show as well) I can see where someone playing a major character on a long running show might want a bone to be thrown to them.

 

This is very common, in fact.  Actors feel they know their characters better than the writers, because they inhabit the characters and come up with headcanons and backstories to justify the choices they are written to enact.  Many writers and showrunners welcome this input.  There's nothing out of line whatsoever for Laura Carmichael to make a request or suggest a direction for the character she has played for over five years now.

[ZoloftBlob]

A minute ago

 

Why would Rosamond do anything else for Edith?  She basically spit on the aunt that gave up her own life for nearly a year so Edith wouldn't be caught out as a tramp with a bastard baby by a married man.

 

Don't forget, Rosamund might actually be Edith's mom! :D

 

Although personally I think that's a more clever storyline than the lead writer of the show is willing to admit. :)

[fishcakes]

By the way, Edith is NOT that child's mother.  Marigold's mother is the one that changed her nappies, stayed up all night when her teeth started coming in, helped her learn to walk and kissed her booboos when she fell.

 

I'm not unsympathetic to Edith's situation, but I agree with this. Biology doesn't make a mother any more than it makes a father. A good mother will not do what's best for herself at the expense of her child, which is what I see Edith doing and what Mrs. Drewe distinctly did not do. Edith gave birth to her, but Mrs. Drewe is her mother.

[helenamonster]

Yeah, why Rosamund should take on the responsibility and social stigma of sheltering her niece and great-niece is beyond me. She did what she could to help Edith. When Edith thought she wanted an abortion, Rosamund went with her, even though she disapproved. She also spent months with her in Switzerland. Imo, Rosamund has done everything she can and Edith has decided to chuck it all out.

Edited February 14, 2015 by photo fox

[beeble]

Emotional well-being of anyone let alone children was hardly a concern for anyone in post-WWI Great Britain. That's how the British were so fucking British, by gum, and how they saved the King's empire.  Marigold would have been a hearty young land girl ready for WWII had she stayed with the pig farming Drewes (who I must admit I feel very badly for) but now with French boarding school as one possibility, she will be ready to spy on the Vichy or else she will help her mother run the publishing company in which she will send coded messages to the troops.  

 

George, on the other hand, never sees his mother. That kid is going to be a complete mess, probably joining the foreign service and screwing up British foreign policy even more than it already was. (We can probably blame him for the Palestine debacle.)  That's before he marries somebody just like his mother: beautiful yet unable to show him the warmth he deserves.

[CeeBeeGee]

By the way, Edith is NOT that child's mother.  Marigold's mother is the one that changed her nappies, stayed up all night when her teeth started coming in, helped her learn to walk and kissed her booboos when she fell.

 

And Edith is the one who couldn't bear to have an abortion, notwithstanding the danger to her name and that of her family.  Edith is the one who breastfed her child for however many months.  And Edith is the one who keeps making mistakes but all in the interest of a mother maintaining a relationship with her daughter.  All parents make mistakes.  Sorry, not seeing the demonization of Edith.  I don't see the demonization of any of these characters--maddeningly inconsistently as they are written, it's clear pretty much all of them are flawed and nuanced.  (Except for Greene, who was a monster.)  Mary can be horrible to Edith and I hate that, but she's so kind and compassionate with Tom.  Robert is an oblivious privileged dolt often, but he always steps up for his servants.  Even Thomas can have grace notes of decency.  They're all great.  Edith is making mistakes but they're out of a mother's love.

 

Edith is the mother.  And Mrs. Drewe knew it in the end.  She is a foster mother who obviously loved Marigold and I feel bad for her but she does have other children.  This is likely Edith's only chance.  And she's going to do just fine, drunken champagne binges all the same!  (What next, butterbeer??)

[beeble]

 

George, on the other hand, never sees his mother.

 

Not true.  Both Tom and Mary see the kids before dinner dressing gong every day, we've seen it several times.

 

Mary isn't known for her quality time with George. Her sex tour with Tony was never, to my recollection, occasionally interrupted by, "How is my son doing?"  Edith, on the other hand,  spent loads of welcome and unwelcome quality time with her daughter. Yes, I know Edith is lonely and not even Isis wants to hang out with her but I honestly believe that Edith would much prefer time with her child than time with a good-looking horny guy. I know how ridiculous that sounds but I still believe it.

 

Speaking of Isis, this show is running out of story lines, so now Isis has to have drama. Can't she just die, like normal dogs do? I hope she's fine, actually since it's possible that the scene was written only to show how truly heartless Mary is. She doesn't even care about the dog! 

[ennui]

Edith is the mother.  And Mrs. Drewe knew it in the end.  She is a foster mother who obviously loved Marigold and I feel bad for her but she does have other children.  This is likely Edith's only chance.  And she's going to do just fine, drunken champagne binges all the same!  (What next, butterbeer??)

Mrs. Drewe knew no such thing. Her husband kept it a secret. As far as Mrs. Drewe knew, Marigold was an orphan.

 

Tell any mother who has lost a child, "You have others," and see how that goes over.

[Andorra]

I don't see the demonization of any of these characters--maddeningly inconsistently as they are written, it's clear pretty much all of them are flawed and nuanced.  (Except for Greene, who was a monster.)  Mary can be horrible to Edith and I hate that, but she's so kind and compassionate with Tom.  Robert is an oblivious privileged dolt often, but he always steps up for his servants.  Even Thomas can have grace notes of decency.  They're all great.  Edith is making mistakes but they're out of a mother's love.

 

This is exactly how I see it, too!

 

And btw no one here isn't compassionate about Mrs Drewe's loss. There's no question about her being a victim here. But sparing her the suffering doesn't make things any better. One of those women was going to suffer and I don't see why it has to be Edith. Edith IS the mother of Marigold, who loves her, will take care of her, can give her anything she needs. She never wanted to give her up in the first place. She only gvave her to the Drewe's because she wanted her in her life. That Mrs Drewe didn't know about it, was NOT Edith's fault. She never asked Mr. Drewe to keep the fact from his wife! But he chose to do so anyway and it was the biggest mistake of his life.

 

People do make mistakes. Edith made the mistake of letting herself be convinced by well meaning Rosamund and Violet that there was no other option than giving up her child. Rosamund and Violet made the mistake by not understanding how deep Edith's feelings for the Baby ran and that she was unable to give her up. Mr. Drewe made the mistake that he underestimated Edith's feelings, too and that he underestimated the conflict with his wife.

 

Mrs Drewe made no mistake. She is a sole victim. But is that reason enough to leave Marigold with her for the rest of her life?

[CeeBeeGee]

Mrs. Drewe knew no such thing. Her husband kept it a secret. As far as Mrs. Drewe knew, Marigold was an orphan.

 

Tell any mother who has lost a child, "You have others," and see how that goes over.

 

Tell any mother "hey, you had your shot, too bad so sad" and see how that goes over, with either the mother or the child.  Again, anyone who thinks that a mother could stay away from her child, the child she did not want to give up, the child she went out of her way to place in the adjacent village, is naive.  This is just common sense--of course Edith would be unable to stay away. 

 

And by "And Mrs. Drewe knew it," I mean that in the end she recognized that Edith's "claim" was greater and gave in gracefully.  Edith gave birth to Marigold, carried her for nine months, breastfed her, did all sorts of crazy things to be with her.  If she made mistakes, she's learning.

[millennium]

I'm late to the party (fashionably, I hope).

 

In a single episode, Edith sheds her role as doormat and embraces her new identity as the stuff people wipe on the doormat.

 

What Edith did to the Drewes is unforgiveable.   It was her own cowardice and fear for her social status -- her utter spinelessness -- that created the situation with the Drewes in the first place.   In the space of five selfish minutes, Edith managed to cut out Mrs. Drewe's heart in a way the poor woman will never forget -- a fine thank you for the person who cared for that child, who got up in the night with her, who changed her diapers, fed her, kept her happy.    A fine recompense for Mr. Drewe as well, whose only crime was trying to help a young woman in trouble -- now his wife looks at him through eyes of hate and betrayal, as though she's married to a total stranger.   Good times at Yew Tree Farm.    No skin off Edith's nose, though.    Ice cream and champagne for everyone!

 

Many have noted Mary's tendency to say whatever she pleases, no matter how harmful.  I'm calling out Edith for exhibiting the same brand of callousness, or worse.   To the best of my memory, Mary has never left an innocent family in shambles to ensure her personal fulfillment.  

Edited February 12, 2015 by millennium

[JudyObscure]

I've just been looking at images of Pola Negri, the moving picture star Isabelle mentioned when she first saw Mary's new do.  Good call, show!  I see more resemblance to Mary there than in the more well known, Clara Bow or Louise Brooks.

 

"Doormat," is used a lot to describe Edith and Lavinia and yet they don't fit my definition of someone who lets others repeatedly wipe their feet on them.  To me the ultimate doormat is Mablelane.   Last week I thought I might like her, but if she takes Tony back after he broke their engagement, just because he saw something he liked better?   No!

[tapplum]

In a single episode, Edith sheds her role as doormat and embraces her new identity as the stuff people wipe on the doormat.

 

Fantastic description! XDXD

[kpw801]

I'm late to the party (fashionably, I hope).

 

In a single episode, Edith sheds her role as doormat and embraces her new identity as the stuff people wipe on the doormat.

 

What Edith did to the Drewes is unforgiveable.   It was her own cowardice and fear for her social status -- her utter spinelessness -- that created the situation with the Drewes in the first place.   In the space of five selfish minutes, Edith managed to cut out Mrs. Drewe's heart in a way the poor woman will never forget -- a fine thank you for the person who cared for that child, who got up in the night with her, who changed her diapers, fed her, kept her happy.    A fine recompense for Mr. Drewe as well, whose only crime was trying to help a young woman in trouble -- now his wife looks at him through eyes of hate and betrayal, as though she's married to a total stranger.   Good times at Yew Tree Farm.    No skin off Edith's nose, though.    Ice cream and champagne for everyone!

 

Many have noted Mary's tendency to say whatever she pleases, no matter how harmful.  I'm calling out Edith for exhibiting the same brand of callousness, or worse.   To the best of my memory, Mary has never left an innocent family in shambles to ensure her personal fulfillment.  

Mrs. Drew was not trying to help a young woman in trouble.  She thought the child was an orphan.  The parents were dead.  The person who ultimately did her a disservice was not Edith but her husband.  Mrs. Drew told him so when she told him "you couldn't have been more false to me if you had taken a mistress."  He lied to her every. single. day.  When she was raving on and on about Edith looking at the child as a "toy" he could have told her the truth then.  It might never have escalated the way it did if he had told his wife the truth.  All Edith wanted was access.  The slamming the door in her face the threats to take the child and move away, could have been dealt with by Mr. Drew telling her the truth.  Edith only took the child because the main reason for bringing her to the village had vanished.  There was NO ACCESS anymore!!  She would have been a benefactor to the child and visited regularly and people might have wondered but I really don't think she would have taken that child if she had not been cut completely off from her.  Basically she had to deal with two very traumatic losses - the real literal death of the only man (person) who loved and appreciated her and the figurative death of her daughter who was now totally off limits.  It was too much to bear.

Edited February 12, 2015 by kpw801

[ZoloftBlob]

One of those women was going to suffer and I don't see why it has to be Edith. Edith IS the mother of Marigold, who loves her, will take care of her, can give her anything she needs. She never wanted to give her up in the first place.

 

I don't have a huge stake in this one - this storyline is going down the path of most predictable and has since Gregson appeared as Edith's love interest with a crazy wife.

 

So I would ask the question - why does it have to be Edith? Well, aside from "because she's a minor character with no first name,"

why does it have to be Mrs. Drewe?

 

Edith had her chance to claim her child multiple times. Edith didn't want the public scorn that having a child out of wedlock brings on. Edith had AMPLE opportunity to trot into the library and tell her daddy that she was knocked up. Violet and Rosamund didn't tie her up and gag her. No one forced her to Switzerland, no one forced her to suckle her child for months and then hand the baby off to the Schroeders. And no one forced her to GO BACK to the Schroeders and take the baby.... and then dither how she couldn't possibly tell anyone she was the child's mother. Then she hands the baby off to Mr. Drewe - that's how much she loves Marigold, on two separate occasions she's given the child to two different couples to raise as their own. And even now, you can damn well bet Marigold will be Edith's ward and not her official child.

 

In contrast, what did Mrs. Drewe do? She took in the child of a friend of her husband's and began to raise it, and put up with the local lord's daughter apparently flirting with her husband. Even at the end, Mrs. Drewe wanted to keep that child as a Drewe despite knowing it was a bastard of the local lord's daughter.

 

Put in modern terms, what would we think of a mom who dumps her kid into the foster system and insists she wants to be a mom any time the kid comes close to adoption? Which is what Edith is doing?

[millennium]

Mrs. Drew was not trying to help a young woman in trouble.  She thought the child was an orphan.  The parents were dead. 

 

In my post, I wrote it was Mr. Drewe who tried to help a young woman in trouble. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by millennium

[AZChristian]

I think we all view the situation with Marigold from our own unique perspective, based on our personal experiences.

I was raised by an unloving "birth vessel" and sometimes wished I'd been given up for adoption or placed in foster care. I do feel that the fictional character of Mrs Drewe showed that she was kind to the child, but I've always wondered if she thought that the child was Mr Drewe's child with Edith, and figured that the only way to keep her husband was to keep the child. She might have never imagined that Edith would risk everything by claiming the child.

Mainly, I try to remember that these are fictional characters, and I shouldn't get so worked up about them that I'm rude to real people who have a different opinion about these fictional characters.

[ZoloftBlob]

No, in the end she realized that the rich dilettante  was gonna get her way despite rejecting her responsibility to Marigold her whole life.

 

I have to agree with ispansy on this. Mrs. Drewe could never win this battle and knows it because the Drewes are Drewes and Lady Edith is Lord Grantham's daughter and Lord Grantham is in control of their tenancy.

 

eta - to be fair to Donk, he's generally not an asshole to his tenants but a) they really don't know how he will react and he could react badly and b) its an illegitimite child, he'll likely stroke out regardless.

Edited February 12, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[mojito]

 

Man, Isis. Clearly we all care most about the dog. I'm only ok with them killing her off if Robert somehow does a riff about ISIS in his prescient way.

Edith will return home to the family with Marigold and tell everyone the truth. They'll be stunned, and just when they shift towards more sympathetic stances....Isis will die and all attention will shift to the dog and Robert's grief.

[millennium]

I don't have a huge stake in this one - this storyline is going down the path of most predictable and has since Gregson appeared as Edith's love interest with a crazy wife.

 

So I would ask the question - why does it have to be Edith? Well, aside from "because she's a minor character with no first name,"

why does it have to be Mrs. Drewe?

 

Edith had her chance to claim her child multiple times. Edith didn't want the public scorn that having a child out of wedlock brings on. Edith had AMPLE opportunity to trot into the library and tell her daddy that she was knocked up. Violet and Rosamund didn't tie her up and gag her. No one forced her to Switzerland, no one forced her to suckle her child for months and then hand the baby off to the Schroeders. And no one forced her to GO BACK to the Schroeders and take the baby.... and then dither how she couldn't possibly tell anyone she was the child's mother. Then she hands the baby off to Mr. Drewe - that's how much she loves Marigold, on two separate occasions she's given the child to two different couples to raise as their own. And even now, you can damn well bet Marigold will be Edith's ward and not her official child.

 

In contrast, what did Mrs. Drewe do? She took in the child of a friend of her husband's and began to raise it, and put up with the local lord's daughter apparently flirting with her husband. Even at the end, Mrs. Drewe wanted to keep that child as a Drewe despite knowing it was a bastard of the local lord's daughter.

 

Put in modern terms, what would we think of a mom who dumps her kid into the foster system and insists she wants to be a mom any time the kid comes close to adoption? Which is what Edith is doing?

Edith never seemed to want the child out of love.   Rather, she regarded Marigold as a balm for her own pathetic loneliness, a panacea for all the bad choices she had made in life.   When did we see her truly ache for Marigold?   When she saw Sybbie with Tom.   When she saw Mary with suitors.   When she received the news of Greggson's death.

 

I wonder, would Edith have been as eager to reunite with Marigold if she were involved in a new whirlwind romance -- or would she be more inclined to leave Marigold with the Drewes, for fear that an illegitimate daughter would dim her prospects of ensnaring a husband? 

 

I call bullshit on Edith.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Edith never seemed to want the child out of love.   Rather, she regarded Marigold as a balm for her own pathetic loneliness, a panacea for all the bad choices she had made in life.  

 

I've kind of had this feeling as well.  I started thinking she was reminiscent of a teenage girl who feels unloved and doesn't necessarily get pregnant on purpose, but thinks now she will have someone to love her.  Edith may have had a mix of factors at play when she got all stalker-ish, but they were about what she needed, not what the child needed.

[LadyintheLoop]

Marigold's mother is the one that changed her nappies, stayed up all night when her teeth started coming in, helped her learn to walk and kissed her booboos when she fell.

 

 

But nobody, including the Drewes, would have seen it that way in 1924. Blood trumped everything then.

[kpw801]

I've kind of had this feeling as well.  I started thinking she was reminiscent of a teenage girl who feels unloved and doesn't necessarily get pregnant on purpose, but thinks now she will have someone to love her.

She was kind of like a teen who didn't get pregnant on purpose.  There are millions of babies born to mothers who didn't plan it and panicked.  We already know she panicked because she nearly had an abortion.  I had those thoughts when I had my last child as a 39 year old divorcee who KNEW BETTER!  I had my child because like Edith, I didn't have the will to go through with the procedure.  I then contacted Catholic Social Services to see about putting the baby up for adoption.  Now this was in 1996, I wasn't so worried about the things Edith worried about, but I was afraid I couldn't provide for my child.  Fortunately, Catholic Social Services wisely saw I didn't really want to give away my baby, I just needed some help.  I got the help and now my baby is a strapping 18 year old with a football scholarship, going to college with a full ride in the fall.  He is the love of my life and we are very close.  If I were in Edith's shoes I might have made the same mistakes.  When you feel all alone and you have the life changing experience of an unplanned pregnancy - even after taking precautions you don't always think straight.  I don't know how JF will write Edith, he may surprise us.  But I think she and Marigold will be extremely close and in an ideal world where Edith really weighed her options, she could realistically go to her grandmother in New YOrk and Marigold would be raised as the child of a newly widowed mother.  But who knows what is in JF's mind.

Edith may have had a mix of factors at play when she got all stalker-ish, but they were about what she needed, not what the child needed.

Also remember when she first found out she was pregnant, Gregson had just left.  She kind of thought she would eventually be able to tell him and they would work it out and fudge the dates.  Then time went on and on and on and then she found out he wasn't coming back at all.  How traumatic is that?  She should be given a bit of slack.  Suppose the child looks like Gregson.  Can you imagine knowing your lover (her father) is dead but when you look at her you see his eyes?  It is too much to expect this "spinster" who will probably never have another child (1 because she is too old to marry now and (2 because even if someone wanted to date her, after this she will probably never trust another man)) to just walk away from her flesh and blood?  Call it selfish if you want, I call it human.

[kpw801]

Edith never seemed to want the child out of love.   Rather, she regarded Marigold as a balm for her own pathetic loneliness, a panacea for all the bad choices she had made in life.   When did we see her truly ache for Marigold?   When she saw Sybbie with Tom.   When she saw Mary with suitors.   When she received the news of Greggson's death.

 

I wonder, would Edith have been as eager to reunite with Marigold if she were involved in a new whirlwind romance -- or would she be more inclined to leave Marigold with the Drewes, for fear that an illegitimate daughter would dim her prospects of ensnaring a husband?

Edith?  whirlwind romance?  I might sound like Mary but - seriously?  After being jilted by Strallan and then this disastrous romance with Gregson, she has probably dropped out of the dating game for good!  Call her Edith the nun without the veil.  It ain't happening.

 

In my post, I wrote it was Mr. Drewe who tried to help a young woman in trouble.

okay.  my bad.

[LadyintheLoop]

Also remember when she first found out she was pregnant, Gregson had just left.  She kind of thought she would eventually be able to tell him and they would work it out and fudge the dates.  Then time went on and on and on and then she found out he wasn't coming back at all.

 

 

And until this episode, that tiny uncertainty kept her paralyzed; she couldn't make any irrevocable decisions (IMHO) when there was still a chance he'd come back.

 

Yes, Edith took a foolish risk -- but when she spent that night with Gregson, the worst outcome she could have imagined was that she'd have to carry a bridal bouquet the size of a beach ball. 

[Mrsjumbo]

One of the disadvantages of the UK getting to see this before the U.S., is 9 pages of forum talk to read through right after the episode airs here! And most everything's been talked out already. It's been enjoyable to read though. :)

I still think Edirh can head to grandma's in the US, & take Tom with her. They are both itching for a change of scenery.

If Edith does stay, & takes over the publishing business, all I could think of was the stock market crash of 1929- only 5 short years away! Cue more depressing Edith stories about losing her business.

I still want to hear more background story of Baxter & Thomas.

I like Mary's hair. I like this period in general. My grandparents were married in 1926. Grandma had a knee length wedding dress (shocking!) & bobbed hair.

[CeeBeeGee]

No, in the end she realized that the rich dilettante  was gonna get her way despite rejecting her responsibility to Marigold her whole life.  Nursing a baby does not make you a mom, there are and certainly were then wet nurses.

 

Yes, exactly, Edith abandoned little Marigold by the road just as soon as she was born and went on merrily dancing through her bon-bon strewn life.  You nailed it!  A monster, she is ;)  Bye, Mrs. Drewe!  Thanks for the teddy bear!

[ZoloftBlob]

Edith is rich, therefore she can yes, escape most of the public scorn that comes from having an illegitimate child. Look at what happened to Ethel. She slept with an Army officer, perhaps once, perhaps more. Is the officer called a rich whorey dilettante? Did he lose any status? Nope, but *Ethel* was called a whore and fired from her job and publically scorned and yup, forced to be a common whore unless she wanted to starve.

 

Here's was Crawley money does for Edith. She has a rich aunt and rich grandmother who can assist her in finding an abortionist, take her on a lengthy, at least six months long trip to Switzerland, and yes, even offer to send the child to a boarding school all so Edith doesn't have to bear any consequences. If Edith didn't have power and money, Mr. Drewe would likely have told her to go piss up a rope instead of agree to hide her bastard child among his... much the way everyone told Ethel to go piss up a rope.

 

While I don't agree with the over all mentality - I do admit, having dealt with the scenario of a woman having sex with a man she knew was married - that I am not overly sympathetic for Edith's woes when she knew without a doubt that Gregson was a married man and decided to have sex with him. Even if he had lived, her pregnancy would still have been a huge scandal because at the time, unmarried women having sex with men they know are married aren't exactly given parades.

 

I will admit, I take the concept of marital vows pretty seriously and that colors my opinion. *Gregson* was wrong to violate his vows to his wife with Edith.... and *Edith* was wrong to knowingly assist him in cheating on his pitiful wife. I mean really, if we take the story at face value - that Mrs. Gregson is hospitalized, then neither Michael or Edith are being awesome cool people as they merrily commit adultery against a defenseless mentally ill woman.

[minamurray78]

Mary isn't known for her quality time with George. Her sex tour with Tony was never, to my recollection, occasionally interrupted by, "How is my son doing?"  Edith, on the other hand,  spent loads of welcome and unwelcome quality time with her daughter.

 

I've seen this kind of argument used to criticize a character in plenty shows: "character A never does this and that, she/he's terrible at it". I've always found it unfair. We only get a one hour window into the lives of a large group of people here, there are a lot of things we don't see them doing like, oh say, taking a bath (other than Cora way back in season one). Are we to believe they all must stink but are too polite to tell it to each other's faces? No, 'cause we don't get a 24/7 live feed of these people's comings and goings.

We can tell Mary's a bitch to her sister 'cause the writers keep giving us scenes where Mary is bitching at Edith. That's never stopped. There was a time when Mary was distant with her son, in the months following Matthew's death, and we saw that and other characters brought it up. But as she got over her grief, it was never mentioned again and so the audience wasn't to be concerned about that anymore.

Mary's storyline this season is not about her relationship with her son, so we don't get to see them every time they're together. Edith ST however is all about her dealing with the separation from her daughter and her strained relationship with the Drewes, so that's what we see.

I get that Mary is a widely resented character (and with reason) but we should try and focus on the story the writers are trying to tell us. Nobody's about to nominate  her for mother of the year in the show, but if we were supposed to believe there was a problem, we would get a couple of scenes hinting at that.

 

That being said, I'm not even sure what Mary's storyline is supposed to be about lately. For a moment I thought it was going to get ugly with Tony refusing to let her go, and that could be a thing, another hint at a scandal, etc, but that went away. Blake seems more like a pal rather than a love interest. She's not arguing with Robert about the running of the estate lately... the writers seem to have run out of ideas when it comes to certain characters (hello, Mr and Mrs Bates?, can be just throw one of them in jail permanently and be done with it?).

[LadyintheLoop]

Mary didn't have to ask Edith what she thought of her haircut, but she did it anyway because she wanted all the attention on her even from the sister she seems to take delight in hating.

 

 

She didn't ask at all. When Edith silently rose and headed for the door, Mary stood in her path and sneered, "I suppose you disapprove" and the family dynamic defaulted to "Mary's a princess/Edith's a pill."

 

Question for the people who Mary and her haircut debut was insensitive: Do you think she timed her haircut because she knew it would draw attention to her and away from Edith?

 

 

I think so. First she made that nasty remark to Anna, then she asked if she was looking frumpy (so she hadn't yet made the appointment), then she talked about showing the fellows what they were missing -- even though she's not crazy about Blake, and she's actually trying to unload Gillingham. Edith was the center of attention for once, and Mary couldn't stand it.

 

So what's the point of Spratt and the lady's maid? If he quits his job, he'll be free to talk about Lady Mary in Liverpool.

Edited February 13, 2015 by LadyintheLoop

[CeeBeeGee]

In fairness, while I think you're being sarcastic, you've actually made an excellent point about the times.

 

Edith is rich, therefore she can yes, escape most of the public scorn that comes from having an illegitimate child. Look at what happened to Ethel. She slept with an Army officer, perhaps once, perhaps more. Is the officer called a rich whorey dilettante? Did he lose any status? Nope, but *Ethel* was called a whore and fired from her job and publically scorned and yup, forced to be a common whore unless she wanted to starve.

 

Here's was Crawley money does for Edith. She has a rich aunt and rich grandmother who can assist her in finding an abortionist, take her on a lengthy, at least six months long trip to Switzerland, and yes, even offer to send the child to a boarding school all so Edith doesn't have to bear any consequences. If Edith didn't have power and money, Mr. Drewe would likely have told her to go piss up a rope instead of agree to hide her bastard child among his... much the way everyone told Ethel to go piss up a rope.

 

While I don't agree with the over all mentality - I do admit, having dealt with the scenario of a woman having sex with a man she knew was married - that I am not overly sympathetic for Edith's woes when she knew without a doubt that Gregson was a married man and decided to have sex with him. Even if he had lived, her pregnancy would still have been a huge scandal because at the time, unmarried women having sex with men they know are married aren't exactly given parades.

 

I will admit, I take the concept of marital vows pretty seriously and that colors my opinion. *Gregson* was wrong to violate his vows to his wife with Edith.... and *Edith* was wrong to knowingly assist him in cheating on his pitiful wife. I mean really, if we take the story at face value - that Mrs. Gregson is hospitalized, then neither Michael or Edith are being awesome cool people as they merrily commit adultery against a defenseless mentally ill woman.

 

You bring up a lot of excellent points--and most of them address the class issue (also a great discussion worth having).  I was addressing a gender issue--the point I was making was that the poster was extremely harsh on Edith for having "selfish" sex and didn't bother to mention the other half of the equation--Gregson.  I made that point because I believe a lot of the over-the-top vitriol toward Edith for not being the Perfect Mother (notwithstanding her obvious, awkward, badly-handled-but-enormous love for Marigold) is, frankly, misogynistic.  Which isn't surprising.  Even today we as a society are ridiculously hard on mothers.  Fathers?  We let them off the hook--much as the poster let Gregson off the hook.  Peruse the Mad Men fora for more examples--Betty is the Worst Mother Ever whereas Don--who abandoned his entire family for three weeks in California, who blew off his daughter's 6th b-day party so he could stare at a train--is The Man.  I could go on but whenever I encounter over-the-top vitriol toward a mother figure in fandom (or IRL) I roll my eyes.  We're all way, way too hard on mothers.  They're pretty much all trying to do the best they can.  Both Edith and Mrs. Drewe are in difficult situations here, and they both love little Marigold.

[Gretchen8]

Having been in Mrs. Drewe's situation (except that my husband was a victim along with me), I thought Edith's story played out realistically.  I had to give up an adopted baby when the birthmother wanted it back.  The scene in my home was pretty similar to the one on tv.  Once Mrs. Drewe was convinced that Edith really was the birthmother, she knew the baby had to go back to her, for the child's sake, not because Edith was richer or anything else.  I've never seen anything but great love for her child in Edith, and once Mrs. Drewe figured out the truth, and realized why Edith was always hanging around, she saw it, too.  Anyway that's how it played to me.

[JudyObscure]

When did we see her truly ache for Marigold?

When she was lying in bed gazing at her picture and crying.