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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Ha. I totally called Sister Jo being aligned with Lucifer. I still say she's a Satan worshipper, kind of like Casey was back in s3(she was awesome too)

I don't think so. My guess is that the "unlikely deal" will be part and parcel of a redemption sl for Lucifer. I think that AU Michael is the Dabb-planned Big Bad of S13 and in the hive mind of Dabb and co, that means Lucifer must be "redeemed".

And now that his new and more shiney toy has been launched, his efforts at deconstructing the mothership can continue, unabated and uninterrupted.

I'd bet the ranch that Sister Jo is being brought on to teach the Winchesters(and especially Dean, of course) yet another "lesson" in...something...because he hasn't been "schooled" enough in anything and everything up to this point, dontchaknow...

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Res

Res

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

 

Well, I guess it's good she's finally going to be maternal to someone's child cause she sure wasn't with her own boys when she came back.  LOL .

Which will only make me hate her even more. Apparently Sam and Dean weren't even in the lottery for decent parents.

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mommo

mommo

It would suck for Dean, but if they just killed her off over there I'd be happy.  I loved loved loved that kitchen scene when Dean was inside her head and told her "I hate you, and I love you."  She NEEDED to hear the first part.  I'm thankful beyond measure they didn't try to build the new series around her as a strong female hunter.  Urk.  

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catrox14

catrox14

17 hours ago, mommo said:

It would suck for Dean, but if they just killed her off over there I'd be happy.  I loved loved loved that kitchen scene when Dean was inside her head and told her "I hate you, and I love you."  She NEEDED to hear the first part.  I'm thankful beyond measure they didn't try to build the new series around her as a strong female hunter.  Urk.  

They wouldn't dare. She's over 40. Can't have an over 40 female lead on the CW. as we can see by the WS being centered around Claire with Jody and Donna taking that backseat. I mean I really dislike Mary but at least she had hunting bona fides because of being raised as a hunter.  She should be the one training the others IMO. We'll be lucky to keep Dean as a lead once Mar 1 rolls around and Jensen turns 40. 

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Res

Res

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

 

This could be Jensen being his sarcastic self, or does this bode that he'll be doing a love scene with Danneel? He's talked before that love scenes are uncomfortable. Curious.....hmmmm

Previously he's said action scenes. Huh.

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SueB

SueB

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I’ll watch the video later to confirm but he’s said so many times that love scenes are not remotely romantic, they’re technical and uncomfortable in his words.  So, I’m going with sarcasm or maybe a hint.  

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

(edited)
21 hours ago, SueB said:

I’ll watch the video later to confirm but he’s said so many times that love scenes are not remotely romantic, they’re technical and uncomfortable in his words.  So, I’m going with sarcasm or maybe a hint.  

It was total deadpan humor. He had a lot of that on Sunday. Sorry I now see you watched.

Edited by scribe95
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
Quote

She’s very close to her niece. So it’s a situation that she doesn’t necessarily feel is necessary to get help for, but she is desperate,” and thus, calls the boys.

This sentence makes no sense.  If your desperate doesn't that you mean you feel you need help.  Why wouldn't she feel help is necessary in this case. 

It almost sounds of if Briana would rather not have had Donna call the boys.  It's another thing that make me question the whole "Donna hunts vampires" (or whatever that was) line in WS.  Because when she encounters something supernatural she calls the boys even though help isn't necessary.  (I just confused myself even more.  LOL).

It was more of a reference to that line in the last ep.

Edited by ILoveReading
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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

(edited)
16 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

This sentence makes no sense.  If your desperate doesn't that you mean you feel you need help.  Why wouldn't she feel help is necessary in this case. 

It almost sounds of if Briana would rather not have had Donna call the boys.  It's another thing that make me question the whole "Donna hunts vampires" (or whatever that was) line in WS.  Because when she encounters something supernatural she calls the boys even though help isn't necessary.  (I just confused myself even more.  LOL).

I took it to mean that Donna doesn’t necessarily need the help, but because it’s something so close to her she wants back up as a just in case. She wouldn’t want to lose her nieces life due to her overconfidence. So basically “if I don’t need them great! I can just apologise for wasting their time. If I do need back up then thank God I called them and my niece is still alive”. I don’t think Donna needing help on occasion excludes her from being a competent hunter. Sam and Dean hunt as a duo and rarely do it alone. They’re meant to be the best in the world and yet how many times have they got each other out of messes during hunts? How many times have they called in others like Bobby for help? 

 

ETA: @ILoveReading  in addition to what I said above, How many times has an episode consisted of such and such a hunter with years of experience calling the boys in for help with a case? 

Edited by Wayward Son
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

I took it to mean that Donna doesn’t necessarily need the help, but because it’s something so close to her she wants back up as a just in case. She wouldn’t want to lose her nieces life due to her overconfidence. So basically “if I don’t need them great! I can just apologise for wasting their time. If I do need back up then thank God I called them and my niece is still alive”. I don’t think Donna needing help on occasion excludes her from being a competent hunter. Sam and Dean hunt as a duo and rarely do it alone. They’re meant to be the best in the world and yet how many times have they got each other out of messes during hunts? How many times have they called in others like Bobby for help? 

I never said that hunters don't need help.  Or that was anything wrong with it.  I question the line about Donna killing a ton of Vampires in WS becasue I don't think it rings true to what we've seen with her character.  I feel like she'd take care of something if she came across it, but I never got the sense she was actively seeking out cases.  If you don't agree fine but its how Ive seen her character.

I just feel that her first instinct in calling the boys, supports the idea she doesn't really have much experience. 

Since her and Jody are such besties and super duper hunters now I wonder why she's not calling Jody and Claire. 

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

(edited)
11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I never said that hunters don't need help.  Or that was anything wrong with it.  I question the line about Donna killing a ton of Vampires in WS becasue I don't think it rings true to what we've seen with her character.  I feel like she'd take care of something if she came across it, but I never got the sense she was actively seeking out cases.  If you don't agree fine but its how Ive seen her character.

I just feel that her first instinct in calling the boys, supports the idea she doesn't really have much experience. 

Since her and Jody are such besties and super duper hunters now I wonder why she's not calling Jody and Claire. 

Honestly, it’s a plot contrivance due to IRL logistics. They wanted another episode to explore Donna’s psyche and they weren’t going to follow the WS backdoor with another  Jody/Donna heavy episode so she calls Sam and Dean. 

 

An unpopular opinion of mine is for all the complaints of dumbing Sam and Dean down to prop others up the show also does the reverse. Several times over the course of the shows history they’ve introduced badass hunters who we are told have had years of experience only to kill them off in a manner unbefitting of such a history. Like Annie from Of Grave Importance who was a seasoned hunter and yet entered a haunted house unarmed. All so Sam and Dean can swoop in and finish these cases the suddenly stupid pros couldn’t. So I don’t find it unlikely they’ll damsel Donna for the sake of the brothers.  

Edited by Wayward Son
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catrox14

catrox14

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

his sentence makes no sense.  If your desperate doesn't that you mean you feel you need help.  Why wouldn't she feel help is necessary in this case. 

I think Donna has a hard time asking for help because I think she prides herself on doing what she can herself. It's possible it's misquote or taken a bit out of context. I dunno, it might something like thinking you can handle something yourself and then suddenly it's escalated and you're like "OH CRAP! I need help!"  I kind of get it and it's also kind of confusing too LOL

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catrox14

catrox14

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Honestly, it’s a plot contrivance due to IRL logistics. They wanted another episode to explore Donna’s psyche and they weren’t going to follow the WS backdoor with another  Jody/Donna heavy episode so she calls Sam and Dean. 

 

An unpopular opinion of mine is for all the complaints of dumbing Sam and Dean down to prop others up the show also does the reverse. Several times over the course of the shows history they’ve introduced badass hunters who we are told have had years of experience only to kill them off in a manner unbefitting of such a history. Like Annie from Of Grave Importance who was a seasoned hunter and yet entered a haunted house unarmed. All so Sam and Dean can swoop in and finish these cases the suddenly stupid pros couldn’t. So I don’t find it unlikely they’ll damsel Donna for the sake of the brothers.  

To me, that's like saying that Mulder and Scully shouldn't be helping other FBI agents who can't solve a case or who stumble into something unexpected and it's not up their alley.  Dean and Sam are the main characters . Of course they are going to save even other badass characters. I mean that's the show.

19 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Honestly, it’s a plot contrivance due to IRL logistics. They wanted another episode to explore Donna’s psyche and they weren’t going to follow the WS backdoor with another  Jody/Donna heavy episode so she calls Sam and Dean. 

I still think this was supposed to go before Wayward Sisters. That's why she wouldn't have called Jody and Claire. I'm expecting the timeline to be a little wonky other wise it doesn't make much sense.

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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To me, that's like saying that Mulder and Scully shouldn't be helping other FBI agents who can't solve a case or who stumble into something unexpected and it's not up their alley.  Dean and Sam are the main characters . Of course they are going to save even other badass characters. I mean that's the show.

I’m going to reply to you in All Episodes thread. I’ll move it Back here if necessary later in the discussion :)

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

They really need to find other motivation then killing off loved ones to join the hunting world full time.

Yeah, I was kinda hoping Donna was already walking on thin ice in her day job because of her obsession with hunting--which I think would also answer the questions about her killing a lot of vampires--and it not only be about losing a beloved family member we've never heard a peep about previously.

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I still think this was supposed to go before Wayward Sisters. That's why she wouldn't have called Jody and Claire. 

I don't know, it could be. They did a bit of a switcheroo here because this was supposed to be the "stakes on a train" episode originally. But, honestly, I think this episode came late to the table. So, while maybe it should've been before Wayward Sisters, it was impossible by the time they realized they needed to get Donna to Sioux Falls.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To me, that's like saying that Mulder and Scully shouldn't be helping other FBI agents who can't solve a case or who stumble into something unexpected and it's not up their alley.  Dean and Sam are the main characters . Of course they are going to save even other badass characters. I mean that's the show.

I still think this was supposed to go before Wayward Sisters. That's why she wouldn't have called Jody and Claire. I'm expecting the timeline to be a little wonky other wise it doesn't make much sense.

I replied in more detail about what I meant in the all episodes thread. The point I was trying to make is that if they’re willing to have a hunter veteran with more than a decade of experience suddenly need Sam and dean’s help with a run of the mill ghost hunt then I don’t find it hard to buy Donna will suddenly need their help. Even  if strictly speaking she shouldn’t need it at this point in her hunter journey. 

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catrox14

catrox14

14 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

They did a bit of a switcheroo here because this was supposed to be the "stakes on a train" episode originally. But, honestly, I think this episode came late to the table. So, while maybe it should've been before

I thought it was just changing the name of the episode to Breakdown or are you saying they scuttled Stakes on a Train altogether? Or did it become Various and Sundry Villains?

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DittyDotDot

DittyDotDot

(edited)
10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought it was just changing the name of the episode to Breakdown or are you saying they scuttled Stakes on a Train altogether? Or did it become Various and Sundry Villains?

My understanding is Various Villains and Sundry is the episode with the witches and Rowena while Lucifer and Cass work together to escape Asemodeus. Then we have Daneel's first appearance and that doesn't sound like "stakes on a train" either. Doesn't sound like there are any stakes or trains in any of the upcoming descriptions they've released, so I figured they scrapped it when they realized they needed to do something with Donna and get her to Sioux Falls.

Or maybe they originally conceived the episode with Donna and "stakes on a train", but something about the concept didn't work when they got down to write it. Or maybe it was just too expensive the way it was conceived so they shelved it for later when they had time to figure out how to afford it?

I really don't have the skinny on why, but it does seem the concept has been scrapped at this point. My bet is for my first theory, though.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Wayward Son

Wayward Son

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought it was just changing the name of the episode to Breakdown or are you saying they scuttled Stakes on a Train altogether? Or did it become Various and Sundry Villains?

I read somewhere, probably Jess’ spoiler sheet over on tumblr, that they dropped the train idea due to cost and the filming constraints of filming on a moving train. 

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

(edited)

They play fast and loose with the canon all the time, so this is just more of the same, IMO.  We never really saw any indication that Donna or Jody were going on hunts by themselves, but for the purposes of the spin off, they have to make them better hunters than what we've seen them be.  It was the same with Mary, who even though she had been raised as a hunter, never continued to hunt once her parents were killed and John was brought back to life.  But they felt the need to make her a super hunter for some reason.  

I personally think her story would have been more interesting if she had really quit hunting, and then got drawn back into the life through Sam and Dean.  She was so upset about the fact that her sons were hunters, because she never wanted that life for them, but yet she continued to hunt, herself?  It never made much sense to me, and it still doesn't.  

They could certainly tell these stories in a plausible way without screwing with the canon, but it's just easier to disregard everything from your 13 year past.

Edited by MysteryGuest
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SueB

SueB

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3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I read somewhere, probably Jess’ spoiler sheet over on tumblr, that they dropped the train idea due to cost and the filming constraints of filming on a moving train. 

This makes sense to me.  It's a great title (Stakes on a Train), but the like the submarine for The Vessel, it sounds like it was a huge deal.  They just did a real boat** for EP 9/10 but put a whole lot into it.  I think save it for next year.  But I do wonder if the 'killed a lot of vampires' was originally written thinking that would be Donna's specialty.

We also have a S12 canon issue with vampires: the BMoL supposedly killed a shit ton of them.  At the start of the series vampires were "rare' ("Dean Man's Blood") and being hunted to extinction.  THEN we had S6 where the Alpha Vamp went on a recruiting mission to make more.  Poison blood from the Leviathans killed some but I think the BMoL mass extintion devices took down their numbers.

To the specific article spoilers: 

Now the premise says "Donna's niece goes missing" but the spoilers make it clear she loses the girl permanently.  So her niece is fridged for Donna's character motivation (hey... fridging is now equal opportunity from the hero POV... except it should have been a nephew...). And the monster connection is the buyers of human parts (which... DARK).   Since this is a monster auction, I think ANY hunter would be in over their head if there were more than one monster in the room at different times.  Especially if they need the body parts from a live victim (or super fresh). Like Amy and the pituitary glands for her child. Monsters that could be there:
- Werewolves - hearts (although more than one species probably likes hearts)
- Kitsune - pituitary glands
- Wraith - brains
- The monster Dean killed that ate only kidneys (whathisface's Dad from 10.2)
- Rugaru - pretty much everything else
- Vampires - the blood
- Ghouls - leftovers
I'd have to look at my monster guide (yes, I bought one) to see who else wants what bits.  If you think about it, I'm not surprised at this premise.  The auctioneer takes the risk of kidnapping one person and sells to 4 or 5 customers.   But I don't think it can be a volume operation.  Because that's too many people missing.  So, maybe there's some niche market for the live victims or (and this is gross) young ones.  Let's add in virgin bits for witches to use for spells while were at it. 

Yes, totally appropriate gross episode for Supernatural.  Sounds like a Jenny Klein episode (she's not writing for SPN anymore).  I think Davy Perez (who's writing this) must have taken over for horror heavy episodes. 

 

 

**That real boat was cool but it reminds me of the stories J2 tell about going to less than savory locations and the crew are in 'hazmat suits' while they are running around in flannel.  I suspect there was more than one dead real life creature inside there, or a nest of something I would run screaming from.

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nightwing877

nightwing877

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I read somewhere, probably Jess’ spoiler sheet over on tumblr, that they dropped the train idea due to cost and the filming constraints of filming on a moving train. 

Hopefully, the story can come back into play next season. It could even be a WS episode since it was based originally on Donna in it. I really actually liked the idea of an episode all set on a moving train. 

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ahrtee

ahrtee

4 minutes ago, nightwing877 said:

Hopefully, the story can come back into play next season. It could even be a WS episode since it was based originally on Donna in it. I really actually liked the idea of an episode all set on a moving train. 

There was a wonderful Due South ep many, many years ago about terrorists hijacking a train in the Canadian Rockies carrying a group of Mounties.  Most of the ep took place on the moving train.  

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nightwing877

nightwing877

(edited)
5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

There was a wonderful Due South ep many, many years ago about terrorists hijacking a train in the Canadian Rockies carrying a group of Mounties.  Most of the ep took place on the moving train.  

wow cool, I'm glad a show attempted this. The only thing I've seen on a moving train that comes close was X-Files with an alien locked in the back and Mulder trying to get to it. I haven't seen too many do it, but I don't think I've seen the Due South one. 

Edited by nightwing877
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ahrtee

ahrtee

21 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Where is Sam and Jared? Why is there only a pic and a tag of Jensen in that tweet? Aren’t they both supposed to be leads? 

Are you being sarcastic because of similar complaints about Dean/Jensen in the past?  

Maybe instead of emojis, we should ask the mods to add a "sarcastic font."  (see, I could have used one right there!) 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Sneak Peek.  Nice to see Donna settling for the Winchester because Jody's not available. 

Good gravy, what is wrong with the promo monkeys at CW? That is the most boring sneak peek in the history of ever.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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