Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[KaveDweller]

I haven't followed the ratings this season, but other than hearing they weren't good (yet upticked a little after Christmas (when Castle and Beckett were back together)) ... I'd be curious to know, were the lowest rated episodes the one where Castle worked primarily with Slaughter and went to LA with Hayley?

 

 

The episode where Castle worked with Slaughter did have a drop in ratings, but the lowest episodes of the season were the episode opposite the Grammys and the random episode that aired on a Sunday. The LA episode was consistent with most episodes this season, but I think it aired against a repeat of some other show.

I haven't followed the ratings this season, but other than hearing they weren't good (yet upticked a little after Christmas (when Castle and Beckett were back together)) ... I'd be curious to know, were the lowest rated episodes the one where Castle worked primarily with Slaughter and went to LA with Hayley?

 

 

The episode where Castle worked with Slaughter did have a drop in ratings, but the lowest episodes of the season were the episode opposite the Grammys and the random episode that aired on a Sunday. The LA episode was consistent with most episodes this season, but I think it aired against a repeat of some other show.

[readster]

I could see TPTB thinking that their drama pilots are so bad that they are willing to accept a re-tooled Castle with lesser ratings rather than take a flyer on a new pilot. 

 

I have zero interest in watching Castle without Beckett. I didn't even watch the Season 8 episodes where Beckett was mysteriously absent. 

They can try it all they want, but when they decided it was "easier" to write Castle and Beckett as separate with the stupid Lockstat story line. I knew it would blow up and now this and with Lainey also not returning. I'm sorry, you can try and retool this all you want, Castle is over, put and end to it ABC and try to look for shows to invest in more instead: "Dammit!" "Why isn't anyone watching our shows that have been on TV for 11+ seasons and have almost none of the original cast left?" 

[westwingfan]

I do agree the ratings sucked, but strictly numbers wise, I'm not sure this was a fail, not when you consider new programming like The Catch is garnering a 1.0. Heck, most 10:00 p.m. shows on any given night save for ABC's successful TGIT lineup on Thursdays on all networks are basically in "1" territory now. Since Castle stabilized, maybe that was enough for Dungey and Company.

 

Assuming the radically-altered S9 does happen.

But the reaction to the more recent episodes would indicate that the ratings stabilised more because of the perception that they were more like "classic Castle" i.e. Caskett were openly reunited, a writer and his muse fighting crime sort of together with the support of the boyz, and because they didn't have Castle with his P.I. hat on much and Alexis behaved more like his daughter than a super sleuth, and Hayley was barely seen in the recent episodes, except for 8x14. 8x15-8x17 seem to have been the most enjoyed of the season so far, it will be interesting to see what happens tonight, maybe TPTB will have their answer on the feasability of a S9 when the ratings come out tomorrow.

[turnitwayup]

I could see TPTB thinking that their drama pilots are so bad that they are willing to accept a re-tooled Castle with lesser ratings rather than take a flyer on a new pilot. 

 

Ikr? If a s9 happens, I would expect below 1.0 ratings. Probably better off trying to do a brand new short season show staring Nathan again than a retooled Castle. Something like American Crime or AHS where you could do new plots each season.

[McManda]

This can go one of two ways for me ... and neither involve a Beckett-less season 9.

 

1 - they just decide to end it. I'll be sad for the show and myself and for everyone else involved, but at least it's an end.

 

2 - there's enough outrage that if it was ABC's idea to move on without Stana (and Tamala, but she's much less vital ... sorry, Tamala, still love you!) they reapproach her, especially if they go the route of a shortened final season.

 

I only hold out minor hope on #2 because of the language used in all these releases - ABC says they hope to continue their relationship with Stana, Stana says she doesn't want to distract from an amazing experience and thank ABC ... something went down and it's seems likely it's not that Stana walked away from a contract extension. I feel like if it was a mutual decision there would be more thanking on Stana's part, and the rest of the cast wouldn't have been blindsided.

[WendyCR72]

But the reaction to the more recent episodes would indicate that the ratings stabilised more because of the perception that they were more like "classic Castle" i.e. Caskett were openly reunited, a writer and his muse fighting crime sort of together with the support of the boyz, and because they didn't have Castle with his P.I. hat on much and Alexis behaved more like his daughter than a super sleuth, and Hayley was barely seen in the recent episodes, except for 8x14. 8x15-8x17 seem to have been the most enjoyed of the season so far, it will be interesting to see what happens tonight, maybe TPTB will have their answer on the feasability of a S9 when the ratings come out tomorrow.

 

Online, sure. But numbers behind the scenes depend on many variables. And, to be fair, offliners may just watch because the show is "light" and may - or may not - give a rat's butt about romance or the 'ship and just want to smile.

 

Not saying that is it, but I am saying that I don't think the stable numbers can definitively be attributed to one thing. ABC sucks, but it does research; they must like what they see in terms of results.

[BellyLaughter]

Just read about Stana and Tamala. I'm shocked. If they chose to leave that would be one thing, but if it's true they were dismissed, then the show deserves whatever backlash it gets. That's a horrible and dumb move by ABC if the Deadline reporting is accurate. I assume there's more going on that we may or may not find out later, but I feel badly for fans. And Tamala, I hope she was paid well because they never did much with her and then she's let go? This isn't good buzz going into a ninth season, if that happens.

^This^

This is the final insult on what has been an absolutely shitty season. What a joke!

[chaifan]

Is Fillion on contract?  I have to wonder why he is sticking around.  Yes, it's a job, but I'm sure he's comfortable enough to not work for a while.  I would think he would rather leave a series when it is still (somewhat) good, then hanging around until it dies a slow, sad death.

[KaveDweller]

Rob Kyker (prop guy) tweeted this in response to asking for his comment  on this. Based on his other posts he and Stana are pretty close....

 

1st-S&T were not fired. 2nd- think it's a opportunity for them to shine bright in a new light! 3rd- cool new Castle!,

 

https://twitter.com/RobKyker

 

 

I could see TPTB thinking that their drama pilots are so bad that they are willing to accept a re-tooled Castle with lesser ratings rather than take a flyer on a new pilot. 

 

You'd think a new pilot would be cheaper. And a totally re-tooled show doesn't give it the same safety net the current version has.

[TWP]

What if all this was brought out in part as a publicity stunt for a brand new Stana show.....honestly, they fouled it up way too badly to be just about letting her go.

Worst publicity stunt ever?

I also can't wait to see what Stana does next.

Suspense is killing me!

[McManda]

He's never had a show die a slow, sad death. I'm not sure he knows what that is.

 

1st-S&T were not fired. 2nd- think it's a opportunity for them to shine bright in a new light! 3rd- cool new Castle!,

 

Or he's signed a NDA, too. I get that he's being positive and wants to keep his job, but he's insane if he thinks any of this is a good omen for a great (potential) S9.

 

I still think the language of all this is funny. I'd be much more inclined think it was a hunky dory decision if there were mutual statements released or even if the statements made sense independently. But all that's come out is that they respect each other ... it just sits funny.

 

[TWP]

Online, sure. But numbers behind the scenes depend on many variables. And, to be fair, offliners may just watch because the show is "light" and may - or may not - give a rat's butt about romance or the 'ship and just want to smile.

 

Not saying that is it, but I am saying that I don't think the stable numbers can definitively be attributed to one thing. ABC sucks, but it does research; they must like what they see in terms of results.

One of the bigger variables for the ratings stability is that Dancing with the Stars came back.

I suspect the internet outrage will bring a 0.1 down tick, if that.

[BellyLaughter]

ABC "Here Castle fans, have your season 9. With a side serving of 'We don't care what you love'"

I wonder if Jon and Seamus as shaking in their boots? Probably not - I'm sure the nicest guy in Hollywood will go into bat for them.

He's never had a show die a slow, sad death. I'm not sure he knows what that is.

Or he's signed a NDA, too. I get that he's being positive and wants to keep his job, but he's insane if he thinks any of this is a good omen for a great (potential) S9.

I still think the language of all this is funny. I'd be much more inclined think it was a hunky dory decision if there were mutual statements released or even if the statements made sense independently. But all that's come out is that they respect each other ... it just sits funny.

And the timing is either completely wrong or completely genius??!!

[KaveDweller]

What if all this was brought out in part as a publicity stunt for a brand new Stana show.....honestly, they fouled it up way too badly to be just about letting her go.

 

If it was another new show on ABC, I'd be shocked they wouldn't want her to finish out the shortened season of Castle before launching it. They also seem to have a big lack of faith in their upcoming pilots.

I still think the language of all this is funny. I'd be much more inclined think it was a hunky dory decision if there were mutual statements released or even if the statements made sense independently. But all that's come out is that they respect each other ... it just sits funny.

 

Yeah, I find it weird that if Stana were leaving and it had been known for months, ABC would be okay with the Deadline article saying it was their choice. And that it would leak that someone called Stana and Tamela last week to inform them they wouldn't be back and it was for monetary reasons. 

 

Stana's statement did read like it wasn't totally her call, but that could be a PR thing.

[CheshireCat]

KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 7:10 PM, said:KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 7:10 PM, said:

Rob Kyker (prop guy) tweeted this in response to asking for his comment  on this. Based on his other posts he and Stana are pretty close....

 

 

I don't know about Jones, but Katic's contract was up, so technically, she was not fired. She wasn't re-hired or, apparently, she wasn't considered for re-hiring. We, the fans, translated it into "she was fired" though "dismissed" might be a better word because, if ABC decided to not even approach her and wants to save money that way, they completely dismissed her as an actress, dismissed her worth to the show and dismissed her character.

Edited April 18, 2016 by CheshireCat

[Guest]

Not going to lie, I'm pretty pissed right now. About the direction the series has taken, Stana not being asked back, just all of it.

[KaveDweller]

I was coming over here to ask if this had to do with Castle. I guess it does.

 

http://blindgossip.com/?p=77867

 

Why is that even a blind item, lol.

 

Surprised at the "not my favorite to work with" thing though.

[Betweenthisandthat]

I hope that whatever anger fans feel, they can direct it to the network rather than the cast. At least that would make sense.

I've stopped watching this show, but I don't wish any ill on the actors or the crew. I don't know how many people will continue to support the show without a couple that seems to be the reason so many people watched - it wasn't why I watched but this is what I assume. This just doesn't seem like a profitable decision for the network to make if they are concerned about budget issues. What profit will a season 9 make now? How desperate is ABC to try to keep this show on?

[WendyCR72]

How desperate is ABC to try to keep this show on?

 

Have you looked at the ratings for many other ABC shows? In short, the answer to your question is "extremely".

[McManda]

Thing thing I don't get is if it were Stana's idea, there's no way ABC wouldn't comment on that. Or Stana herself. "I've had a great run as Beckett, I'd like to move on to other opportunities, I've made great friends, learned a lot, I hope people stick around for the rest... blah... blah". But we get "thanks for the opportunity, I don't want to distract from an amazing experience" ... that's weird.

 

If Stana had decided to walk, there's no reason ABC wouldn't let that be known. Maybe it'll come out as such later, but right now letting rumors fly about how Stana was dismissed for budgetary reasons does them a complete disservice and paints them as the bad guy. The fact that they're not rebutting that is odd to me.

[McManda]

I was coming over here to ask if this had to do with Castle. I guess it does.

 

http://blindgossip.com/?p=77867

 

I'd pay good money to know if it's for sure Castle (sounds like yes, but why make it a blind item if everyone knows now?, also, it makes it sound like they had advance knowledge, but that seems contrary to everything else that's been said about the issue) and if it is, who said it. Because they're pretty spot on, except maybe about the co-lead in question not being a favorite to work with. That doesn't gel with most of the press that's ever come from set.

 

I'd laugh so hard if it was Seamus or Jon, especially since the accepted story is that Nathan is going to bat to keep their jobs. (I don't really buy that Nathan was the deciding factor, but it seems like people want to place blame and he's unfortunately the target.)

Edited April 18, 2016 by McManda

[BellyLaughter]

So in all of this disappointment and outrage - are we to assume that Castle: The NonBeckett Years is actually getting a S9?

I hope it sinks faster than the Titanic.

Yes! That's what I will be calling it from now on. I will not let her legacy die - no matter how hard ABC wants it too!

Edited April 18, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[CheshireCat]

Just came across this and this says, Katic's rep confirmed it wasn't her choice http://www.etcanada.com/blogs/etc_191006/castle-shocker-stana-katic-exiting-series-decision-to-leave-not-hers-says-rep/tv

[scenicbyway]

I just don't buy the "budgetary" reason given. She's half of the show, the whole premise is Castle following Beckett. Not Castle P.I.

She wasn't fired she just didn't have her contract renewed. My guess is that Fillion isn't saying anything because he's in his own negotiation.

[McManda]

How they deal with a Stana-less S9 will be interesting (I won't be interested), but if they decide to greenlight more I can only hope and pray that they do not, under any circumstances, kill Beckett. There is absolutely no way they would get any sort of demo rating that would look good. Keep her in meetings, have her in training somewhere, but if they kill her, everything I spent 8 years watching is down the drain. Did ABC not learn from Shona's McDreamy mistake? (Though it would be hard to keep things in the precinct and/or the loft with having to make excuses as to why Beckett is continuously MIA. And if they're going to wrap up LokSat they can't even send her into WitSec.)

 

Also, I can't help but think Hawley and Winter were blindsided, too, considering just days ago they were talking about how they were hopeful and season 9 would be back with all cast on deck.

 

#season8seriesfinale and a HEA, please. Just to triage the hurt and disappointment.

 

Just came across this and this says, Katic's rep confirmed it wasn't her choice http://www.etcanada....ers-says-rep/tv

 

They're less concerned about image in Canada. I like it. Go Stana's rep.

 

But this ignites my infinitesimal glimmer of hope that the outrage will cause them to rethink their idea to proceed (one way or another) without Stana. I really don't think they were prepared for people to be so up in arms. It might actually spur me back to ABC advisory panel, if nothing more than to vent my intense frustration at the blindside and the giant, epic, decision.

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[KaveDweller]

Just came across this and this says, Katic's rep confirmed it wasn't her choice http://www.etcanada.com/blogs/etc_191006/castle-shocker-stana-katic-exiting-series-decision-to-leave-not-hers-says-rep/tv

 

Well, to be fair, Stana's rep has reason to lie about it not being her choice, if she didn't want it to look like Stana was blowing off her fans. I'm not saying I think that's the case, but admitting something that makes you look bad is more believable than admitting something that makes you look good.

 

If Stana had decided to walk, there's no reason ABC wouldn't let that be known. Maybe it'll come out as such later, but right now letting rumors fly about how Stana was dismissed for budgetary reasons does them a complete disservice and paints them as the bad guy. The fact that they're not rebutting that is odd to me.

 

Maybe ABC is letting the budget story stay out there because they think it sounds better than whatever the truth is (BTS drama of some kind?).

[McManda]

Well, to be fair, Stana's rep has reason to lie about it not being her choice, if she didn't want it to look like Stana was blowing off her fans. I'm not saying I think that's the case, but admitting something that makes you look bad is more believable than admitting something that makes you look good.

 

But there's only really reason to lie if you did something wrong. There's not really much reason to lie and say it was on ABC if it was more her choice. People might be pissed initially if she chose to walk away, but I think they'd ultimately come around, especially because it's an aging show and she could presumably pursue other (better?) opportunities. People are pretty passionate in general about Stana, so my guess is disappointment followed a begrudging understanding about her wanting to do her own thing would follow.

 

Plus, she'd have much more to lose if her rep lied and then people found out about that. It's unlikely that if they were trying to position her as the victim they'd be willing to sacrifice any gains from that if it was untrue.

 

Maybe ABC is letting the budget story stay out there because they think it sounds better than whatever the truth is (BTS drama of some kind?).

 

For sure. IMO either it's true and they have nothing to defend with or whatever the truth is is worse (for them. if it painted Stana badly I don't doubt they'd say something to try to save face about their decision).

 

Am I the only one who's sadly amused by the ironic timing of tonight's episode being called Backstabber?

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[CheshireCat]

KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 8:05 PM, said:KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 8:05 PM, said:KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 8:05 PM, said:

Well, to be fair, Stana's rep has reason to lie about it not being her choice, if she didn't want it to look like Stana was blowing off her fans. I'm not saying I think that's the case, but admitting something that makes you look bad is more believable than admitting something that makes you look good.

 

 

Maybe ABC is letting the budget story stay out there because they think it sounds better than whatever the truth is (BTS drama of some kind?).

 

Let's put it this way - when Melina Kanakaredes left CSI NY there was a statement released that she decided to exit the show and to this day, all that was ever made public is how CBS was sad and MK had 6 great years on the show but no one ever gave a reason for why she left. Same for when Cote de Pablo left NCIS. So, if SK had said she wasn't coming back, why didn't ABC simpy decide to say that she decided not to renew her contract? Although, that might have been the plan and it was never the plan for it to get out that it wasn't Katic's choice. I find it more than plausible that it's true since ABC has not issued a denial. ABC could easily have stated that they spoke to Katic at the beginning of the year and they (Katic and ABC) came to a mutual agreement and Katic decided it was best for her to move on or something along the lines. Anything which paints them in a better light than not caring about their lead who is crucial to what makes the show in my opinion (the relationship). But they leave that out there.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that Hollywood is a small world. It may seem like a vast industry to us that is tight-lipped, however, if you take a closer look then you'll find it's not that vast after all. One example - two former Castle writers are now working on Madam Secretary, several of those still working on Castle used to work on the X-Files. That's three networks right there. People know each other. People who know people know each other and so on. If it was Katic's choice and the rep lied then it's more than likely that sooner or later word will leak around Hollywood and that's not something she should want and I actually think her rep doesn't have an interest in lying.

Edited April 19, 2016 by CheshireCat

[KaveDweller]

I find it more than plausible that it's true since ABC has not issued a denial. ABC could easily have stated that they spoke to Katic at the beginning of the year and they (Katic and ABC) came to a mutual agreement and Katic decided it was best for her to move on or something along the lines. Anything which paints them in a better light than not caring about their lead who is crucial to what makes the show in my opinion (the relationship). But they leave that out there.

 

I agree, I think it's more plausible that it's true. I just mean I'm basing that on what ABC said and the fact that all the "insiders" quoted are saying the same thing. My point was just that Stana's rep's comment (that we didn't even get to see the actual quote of) doesn't convince me of anything by itself.

[McManda]

Wasn't it Cote de Pablo's choice to leave NCIS, though? I thought she decided to move on. (Though I haven't watched NCIS in years though, so this is all second/third hand knowledge.)

 

Based on what we've seen I'm much more inclined to believe that whatever went down with Stana was less her decision than anything. I think most telling in that situation is the reaction from her co-workers ... if she's as amiable in real life and has a good a working relationship with her coworkers like we're led to believe (Nathan aside, however you fall on that issue) I find it hard to believe she would have let them be blindsided like it seems they were.

 

I think ABC fucked up in their thinking, plain and simple.

[WendyCR72]

Spec is what makes the forums turn! But truthfully, even if one or both leads are total assholes in real life, we'd never know in this case. Not unless E! resumes its old "True Hollywood Story" series and finds and airs subsequent dirty laundry.

 

All the BTS stuff is locked up tight. Which, in a way, is best. (I recall all the Moonlighting issues in the '80s scattered in the likes of The Star and National Enquirer, and it just got so tawdry.)

[CheshireCat]

Wasn't it Cote de Pablo's choice to leave NCIS, though? I thought she decided to move on. (Though I haven't watched NCIS in years though, so this is all second/third hand knowledge.)

 

Yes, and it was also MK's choice to leave but both were, as far as I know, in contract negotiations since they both didn't announce that they were out until June. And I read that CBS was said to have said that they offered de Pablo money and then more money, so that suggests a contract conflict. Same with MK, I believe there was also something about an inability to come to terms over her contract. But that was my point, in both cases it was the actress' choice to leave and no one lied about it. It was all sweet and "we wish her the best" etc. That an actor leaves happens. So, if it had been Katic's choice, they could have just said that she decided not to renew her contract even if it had to do with BTS issues. Saying that she decided not to renew even if it's BTS stuff is much better for ABC than shouldering the blame. That was what I was getting at.

Edited April 19, 2016 by CheshireCat

[MrWhyt]

Did ABC not learn from Shona's McDreamy mistake?

 

what mistake? GA has been a consistent performer in the ratings over the past few season, no big jumps or drops. If it's not reflected in the ratings then it's not a mistake and no network exec is going to learn anything from it.

[McManda]

CheshireCat - ah, thanks. I misunderstood your point. I see what you meant!

 

what mistake? GA has been a consistent performer in the ratings over the past few season, no big jumps or drops. If it's not reflected in the ratings then it's not a mistake and no network exec is going to learn anything from it.

 

Ah, my mistake. I turned off that episode before the end (I was watching delayed and was spoiled) and haven't been back since. Too bad all that outrage over that decision meant exactly nothing.

[FlickerToAFlame]

What's the strategy of announcing Tamala's departure at the same time? She's not even close to crucial for the show, they could have waited until the fall to announce it or, hell, not at all and just used Perlmutter more (or no ME at all). Was it supposed to soften the blow, like "see, it's not personal"?

[McManda]

Was it supposed to soften the blow, like "see, it's not personal"?

 

I don't know, it reads more like "anyone is expendable" with a side if "especially if you're female". I don't want to assume because it's most likely not intent, but refusing to not renegotiate with the co-lead of a show you presumable want to keep around simply because of "budget cuts" sends the message of "we don't care" and a little bit of the add on of "how we're perceived". It's like ABC doesn't care about that because they've got Shonda "Diversity" Rhimes leading up their Thursday nights (and maybe another night? Is The Catch her show?).

 

If it was a business thing or a money issue getting rid of Tamala makes sense. I don't like it, but I get it. There are other people that could (and perhaps should have) gone before Stana. Looking like the bad guy with someone everyone thought was pretty high on the totem pole doesn't scream "it's not personal".

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[GoGiants]

All I can say is wow. What a bummer. I have only watched for just over a year. As a late comer/binge watcher I was still mostly in a happy place with the show despite the same glaring issues most of you here have. The wedding disaster and breakup were what broke the spell for me. I can't imagine how irritated I'd be if I'd been watching since episode one.

I certainly knew it was possible that SK would leave and the show might continue on. As much as I didn't want to believe it, the signs have been there for much of S8. I had been hoping that they would give what was once a sweet and clever show its happily ever after. That was about the only thing that kept me watching S8.

The way this went down today seems cold and weird. Strange statements, odd timing, cast members finding out online etc. It feels like they've cut the rest of the season/series off at the knees. I will not be watching a Beckett-less Castle. Not sure I will watch the rest of S8. I have no desire to see Beckett killed or a divorce or whatever insanity they've dreamed up. Someone above said they'd watch if they knew S8 was the end, I agree.

It does appear to be an ABC business decision. I know nothing about tv but I guess the assumption here is that there are still dollars to made picking over the bones of the show for another season or so by a truly desperate network. Too bad storytelling and business couldn't have met in the middle and allowed Castle to end with dignity.

I don't typically subscribe to any of the misogyny or bullying theories but it really makes me wonder what is going on. I don't believe this was budget related (I'd believe that about Lanie, but not Beckett). Did they forget to have someone sign an NDA? Are the BTS issues a million times worse than the online spec? I too would love to read that theoretical tell all book joked about in above posts.

For those who can compartmentalize, enjoy whatever episode you pick as your series finale. Sadly I'm unable/unwilling to do that so this will likely be the end for me. Maybe I should go sell my DVDs before they are truly worthless?!?!

Edited April 19, 2016 by GoGiants

[CheshireCat]

FlickerToAFlame, on 18 Apr 2016 - 8:57 PM, said:

What's the strategy of announcing Tamala's departure at the same time? She's not even close to crucial for the show, they could have waited until the fall to announce it or, hell, not at all and just used Perlmutter more (or no ME at all). Was it supposed to soften the blow, like "see, it's not personal"?

 

I know I said that maybe ABC wants to test the waters, at the same time, no one said that it was ABC who leaked the story. They made a statement but maybe they didn't plan on saying anything at all until much later but when they learned that the story would break (and as far as I know, journalists who are serious about their Job give those mentioned in an article a chance to comment) they decided to make a statement since the story would have broken with or without it and commenting (bascially confirming) was their way of making the best of a bad situation (using it to test the waters since it was out there anyway).

[BellyLaughter]

So all this so they can squeeze out a 13 episode final season for a lower licensing fee??

I'm sorry but I smell a rat!

Look up Patrick Munn on Twitter - he's hinting at that as well.

This is BS - as in disgraceful!

Edited April 19, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[KaveDweller]

What's the strategy of announcing Tamala's departure at the same time? She's not even close to crucial for the show, they could have waited until the fall to announce it or, hell, not at all and just used Perlmutter more (or no ME at all). Was it supposed to soften the blow, like "see, it's not personal"?

 

I honestly think they could have not announced Tamala was leaving and I wouldn't have noticed. Nothing against her, but Lanie is barely on the show anymore.

 

 

So all this so they can squeeze out a 13 episode final season for a lower licensing fee??

 

What does lower licensing free mean? That it costs less for them to make the show, or that they get paid less when these episodes go into syndication?

 

I really can't imagine why they would screw up the story they have by killing off Beckett, just to make 13 more episodes where they are going to get less money. ABC needs to be investing in new shows that will take them more than one year into the future.

[MrWhyt]

What does lower licensing free mean? That it costs less for them to make the show, or that they get paid less when these episodes go into syndication?

the licensing fee is the money the network pays the production company for each episode.

[McManda]

What I get from Patrick Munn's comments is that ABC decided not to even ask Stana back to the table because they we unhappy with how her last contract negotiation shook out so they decided to hedge their bets and proceed without her. He mentions she asked for some unreasonable things - what, I'd like to know because it doesn't appear (from an admitted layman) that she asked for anything above whatever Nathan asked for or was already receiving - and he also mentions asking PJJ for her take - on, I assume, last year's contract negotiations - but I can't tell if he's insinuating that PJJ was a casualty of Stana's increased contract or that PJJ got screwed by asking for too much.

 

He also mentions that it's an interesting decision, because Castle makes a lot of profit overseas with licensing deals, so I can only imagine they want a shortened, probably final season as a way to squeeze out the last of the money with the international markets.

 

But he does mention that it's a giant fail on ABC's part ... not even not getting Stana back ... but the way they're handling it from a PR perspective is a giant fail.

Edited April 19, 2016 by McManda

[FlickerToAFlame]

If the show ends up being cancelled anyway, this whole debacle will have been for nothing and even more disgraceful.

[ByaNose]

The guys are safe but the woman aren't. Talk about burn!

[FlickerToAFlame]

And the guys can ask for all the contract stipulations they want while the woman are fired for doing so.

[KaveDweller]

What I get from Patrick Munn's comments is that ABC decided not to even ask Stana back to the table because they we unhappy with how her last contract negotiation shook out so they decided to hedge their bets and proceed without her. He mentions she asked for some unreasonable things - what, I'd like to know because it doesn't appear (from an admitted layman) that she asked for anything above whatever Nathan asked for or was already receiving - and he also mentions asking PJJ for her take - on, I assume, last year's contract negotiations - but I can't tell if he's insinuating that PJJ was a casualty of Stana's increased contract or that PJJ got screwed by asking for too much.

 

It sounds like he's saying Stana's demands led to PJJ being let go. Either because her salary increase made it impossible to keep PJJ on or something else.

 

But saying she wouldn't sign until certain concessions were made.....isn't that the definition of negotiating? I'd like to know what she was asking for before deciding if they were unreasonable or not. And if they were that different from Nathan's demands. It's annoying for him to post cryptic crap like that on Twitter but then not follow up.

[rspad]

If I had to guess, ABC issued this announcement now to soften the blow when the renewal announcement comes.  I feel like Castle 2.0 is almost a given now or else why bother with the backlash?  Deal with this news now and hope the conversation at renewal turns to how "exciting" and "fun" it'll be.

 

I'm surprised by how angry I'm feeling about the whole thing.  While the direction of S8 was lackluster to say the least, and I did find myself not as invested in the show, I still enjoyed most weeks and found the chemistry btw Nathan/Stana just fine (whatever BTS issues there may/may not have been).  I hand-waved the separation and just enjoyed it for what it was - a favorite show in the final throes of its existence.

 

I was expecting cancellation, and it would have been fine.  I was expecting Stana deciding on her own not to come back and the show going on without her, and it would have been fine (although I wouldn't be watching).  But for ABC to purposely not renew her contract as a cost-cutting measure?  WTF?  So last year's negotiations were tough?  So what.  When the co-lead on one of your long-running top-performing (for ABC anyway) shows asks for a raise and some time off, that's not unheard of.  They want a possible 9th season to wring more money from the show?  I wonder how that'll pan out when people stop watching.

 

I'm not naive, I get it's a business and I'm sure there's a whole lot more to the story we'll never know, but like I said, at first glance on what's being reported, my initial reaction is anger.  It's a real shame all the way around.

[CheshireCat]

KaveDweller, on 18 Apr 2016 - 9:55 PM, said:

It sounds like he's saying Stana's demands led to PJJ being let go. Either because her salary increase made it impossible to keep PJJ on or something else.

 

I merely interpreted it as PJJ being treated badly whereas SK brought it upon herself, more or less.

If what he says is true, however, it would put everything into a new light and then it would actually make sense that ABC released the information themselves to test the waters.

But no matter what, I still don't want Castle to continue beyond S8!

[McManda]

If what he says is true, however, it would put everything into a new light and then it would actually make sense that ABC released the information themselves to test the waters.

 

As in, they're testing the waters to see if a Beckett-less S9 would even fly before they made a renewal decision? (Hint: if that's the case #season8seriesfinale is my vote.)

 

We'll never know, but I seriously wonder how unreasonable Stana's contract was last time around, mostly compared to Nathan's. Especially if that's what this whole debacle boils down to now.

[Chado]

What I get from Patrick Munn's comments is that ABC decided not to even ask Stana back to the table because they we unhappy with how her last contract negotiation shook out so they decided to hedge their bets and proceed without her. He mentions she asked for some unreasonable things - what, I'd like to know because it doesn't appear (from an admitted layman) that she asked for anything above whatever Nathan asked for or was already receiving - and he also mentions asking PJJ for her take - on, I assume, last year's contract negotiations - but I can't tell if he's insinuating that PJJ was a casualty of Stana's increased contract or that PJJ got screwed by asking for too much.

It isn't money at all. From my understanding SK wanted specific story changes to her character which resulted in PJJ being forced to leave, that is on top of the time off request. Personal opinion here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the BTS tension and her 'demands' last season are the sole reason for them not thinking it was worth going through again.

 

That's why it's complicated, because yeah 'she wasn't asked back' but her coming back was always wrapped up in specific criteria being met for that to even be a reality. Can you fault a network for not asking you back when your own actions removed PJJ from her job because of your demands? That's why Patrick Munn is talking about the 'unreasonable concessions' and to ask PJJ for her story. You will see the similarities in what is happening now.

 

I know people probably think I'm attacking SK here, but I'm not. The show ends with her leaving in my opinion (all about the Caskett), so whatever future show is being dreamed up, is dead to me. All I will say is that this situation is far more complicated than is being reported when it is boiled down to "money", because that isn't true at all. ABC handling of this situation is very weird.