Rory and Logan

[ghoulina]

Damn, those gifs almost converted me!!!

 

MUST. STEP. AWAY. FROM. BUZZFEED. 

[amensisterfriend]

LOL, I know, right?! I feel your pain :) 

[amensisterfriend]

...As I mentioned elsewhere, AS-P has mentioned that she loves and has been influenced by those classic (and timelessly awesome!) '30s and '40s screwball comedies and even wrote Rory and Lorelai as having a special fondness for those films. Somehow keeping that in mind helps me understand Logan's character a lot more---I feel like AS-P was going for that Cary Grant-ish suave, witty, sophisticated, hard partying but inherently kind playboy who wants to settle down with that one special woman leading male who helped carry so many of those movies. Whether the writing and/or Matt C. pulled that off is obviously a matter of subjective opinion, but I do think a lot of what my more modern sensibilities perceive as smarmy arrogance was supposed to be genuinely charming confidence. It's a thin line :) 

[Aloeonatable]

 

Whether the writing and/or Matt C. pulled that off is obviously a matter of subjective opinion, but I do think a lot of what my more modern sensibilities perceive as smarmy arrogance was supposed to be genuinely charming confidence. It's a thin line :)

 

 

I think you're on to something, ASF. I don't think MC pulled that off if that is what ASP was going for. Then again, it could have been the writing. 

[junienmomo]

I think you're on to something, ASF. I don't think MC pulled that off if that is what ASP was going for. Then again, it could have been the writing. 

 

I lean toward the idea that we wear blinders about the screwball comedies, helped by the lack of serious consequences shown in those films. Logan had the behavioral qualities of the screwball heroes, but there were plenty of cracks shown in his behavior with respect to the consequences of the alcohol and his attitude toward the law. Cary Grant could at least find the occasional cop to help him cover up his greater sins, IIRC.

[amensisterfriend]

What are some moments that stand out for you guys as favorite Logan or Rory/Logan moments? Your least favorite and most likely to fast forward?! 

 

Here's a random one: I actually really like their post-felony hug and Logan's unexpectedly serious demeanor despite disliking nearly everything else about those episodes :) 

 

I also love his insistence that Rory take the car to see Lorelai in Say Something, their long hug in the hospital in I'd Rather Be in Philadelphia (clearly a common pattern here is that I like when Logan reveals his more serious side...and I seem to think they hug more naturally than they kiss!), Rory caring for him post-cliff jumping (I'm a sucker for that stuff---and it's interesting to wonder if they would have stayed together if he hadn't gotten hurt on that trip), I like how she says "I love you" to him without any expectation of hearing it back right away, surprising her on the rooftop in the S7 episode I'm blanking out on, candidly telling Rory that he's not boyfriend material in WBB, telling her that if she comes with him to the airport he won't get on the plane in Partings, and I love everything about the rocket in Long Morrow,. 

 

Moments I dislike: Brideamaids-related revelations(!), trinket pilfering, booze swilling when he's stressed, breaking up with her through his sister, the silly Marty-relaed debacle, his introduction in Written in the Stars (yes, I get that people point out it's really Colin who was being an ass---but Logan is so arrogant and condescending here IMO, and the random woman he has an arm around is just like a prop more than a person---like, yes, we get it, AS-P, he's a slick ladies man!), everything about his behavior in LMHYBRO, declaring that kissing her was like kissing a guy in WBB just because she was wearing a tux (that just irks me!), the dopey prank in Pushkin...and possibly some other smirky moments I'm blanking out on :)

Edited August 6, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Taryn74]

I like him talking her into jumping off the scaffolding in YJIJJ.  I love the dress he picked out for her in that ep too.

 

I love him taking over and getting the paper published after the deadline.  He used his family name in a take-charge way without being an @ss about it.

 

I hate the way he treats Jess in Balalaikas.  Rory can't visit with an old friend just because he was her boyfriend at one time?  Give me a break.  Especially considering the callous way Logan sleeps with a handful of his sister's friends while he and Rory are "on a break" just a few episodes later, and thinks nothing of it.

[amensisterfriend]

I like him talking her into jumping off the scaffolding in YJIJJ.  I love the dress he picked out for her in that ep too.

I love him taking over and getting the paper published after the deadline.  He used his family name in a take-charge way without being an @ss about it.

 

Good ones, T.! I'd temporarily forgotten those. 

 

I hate the way he treats Jess in Balalaikas.  Rory can't visit with an old friend just because he was her boyfriend at one time?  Give me a break.  Especially considering the callous way Logan sleeps with a handful of his sister's friends while he and Rory are "on a break" just a few episodes later, and thinks nothing of it.

 

Alas, I hadn't forgotten about that, as you can see....I hope that one day my memory will be wiped clean, though :) 

[pawneerangers]

I am so happy I just found this thread! I am a big Rory and Logan shipper even though I get why some can't stand them. And I know that Rory and Jess had out of this world chemistry and cared about each other too so I'm not someone who loves one ship and hates the other. I think Rory and Logan sincerely loved each other but I can see why people thought Logan was too smooth to trust and believe sometimes. I love how Logan and Rory were different in ways that brought out different sides of each other, like how he made her more adventurous and easygoing and she made him deeper and more serious when he was supposed to be. But like people here said they actually had stuff in common too, so they're not total opposites like Luke and Lorelai. I love the idea people have said that he's like a Cary Grant character and they're kind of like a couple from an old movie. Except for the ending LOL!  

 

I think Logan was a little bit of a secret nerd, like how he worked hard on his ethics paper, got super into work in the last season and loved intellectual debates more than anything. He knew a lot more about history, books and current events than his dumb friends did and seemed excited that he could have intelligent conversations with Rory rather than looking down on people who cared about school. And he read too, even if it wasn't as much as Jess, he liked words and could write well. And he banters with her in a way that's fun and cute to me but not in an obnoxious fighting way like couples like Luke and Lorelai sometimes do

 

I don't know episode titles like the people here do but I know You Jump I Jump Jack because it is one of my favorite episodes of the show. I love not just how he encourages her to live for the moment more but how he knows all that stuff about other journalists and shows he can keep up with her when it comes to wit and intellect like Dean never could. And he leaves her that camera outside her door, which I thought was really thoughtful. That's just one of the best Rory and Logan episodes to me. That one is probably my favorite but I love the scenes that Amen Sister Friend and Taryn74 brought up too. 

 

And I agree the bridesmaid one is the worst. I still can't get past it LOL and have to skip that episode. 

 

I'm watching the show again so that I can keep up with the people here so hopefully I will have more to offer the next time I post! 

[Taryn74]

He knew a lot more about history, books and current events than his dumb friends did and seemed excited that he could have intelligent conversations with Rory rather than looking down on people who cared about school.

 

 

That's a really good point!

 

Don't you make me go liking Logan as much as I do Jess!  LOL.

[amensisterfriend]

Don't you make me go liking Logan as much as I do Jess!  LOL.

 

I am so pathetically suggestible when it comes to these two! I'll find myself agreeing when people say Logan is too smarmy and that Rory was never truly relaxed and "herself" around him. And I do think their raw chemistry/passion was somewhat lacking compared to Jess/Rory which, again, is most likely attributable to MV and AB being in love in real life. (For what it's worth, I do think Rory and Logan had far more chemistry than Rory/Dean!)

 

And then I'll read posts like the one pawneerangers wrote and agree just as sincerely and adamantly that they're an awesome blend of complementary differences and 'truly GET each other' similarities and that he met Rory at a time when he was willing and eager to make positive changes anyway (and that she met him at a time when she was ready to 'rebel' anyway) rather than the two of them ever actually seeking to change each other. As is sadly typical of GG, they were given a few too many flaws and obstacles that made them seem a little more dysfunctional than the writers probably wanted them to. But one happy surprise of rewatching the later seasons is that they were allowed to have some happiness and stretches where they really did seem 'healthy', highly compatible and in love---arguably more of those times than any of the show's other pairings did.  

 

Pawneerangers, as a shipper, are you disappointed that they broke up at the end? I think even many of us who are a little more iffy on Logan and/or them as a couple felt it was pretty out of character for him to be all 'commit to marrying me now or we're totally over!', especially when just a few episodes earlier in Hay Bale Maze he had been eagerly flexible, accommodating etc. And the show seemed to have somewhat outdated ideas about modern day couples marrying at very young ages anyway (Lindsay/Dean, Lane/Zack) The people I know in real life who are most demographically similar to Rory and Logan tended not to marry until their late twenties, early-to-mid thirties etc for various reasons. 

[alexa]

I am doing a rewatch of the full series, and am just at the parts in Season 5 where they are starting to date.  I do actually like this couple, and I like how Rory "goes for it" so to speak in asking him out.  This couple is a bright spot compared to a lot of the other things that are going on--- Emily and Christopher meddling with Lorelai and Luke, etc.

[JayInChicago]

Well my comment deals with a very late episode so you might want to skip this comment Alexa!

---

What do we think with him proposing to her at her grandparents' graduation party?

I think it was terrible!

[takalotti]

What do we think with him proposing to her at her grandparents' graduation party?

I think it was terrible!

I also think it was terrible, but I take even my own opinion with a grain of salt. I just don't like public proposals of any kind. I find them manipulative, almost like the proposer is thinking (consciously or subconsciously), "What is s/he gonna say? No? In front of all these people?"

In reality, I know that it's often to include special people (friends and family) in a special moment. I know that it's not usually manipulative because the couple had talked about the topic generally/indirectly enough that the proposer can be pretty confident of a genuine yes.

But thinking Ugh and cringing are always my first responses to a public proposal on TV and real life.

Even worse than the publicness of the proposal, IMO, was the conversation afterwards in the carriage. I just really didn't like the way Logan spoke to her. On the surface it seemed fine, he was speaking cheerfully and smiling and was just giving his reasons for getting married. But he often interrupted her and pretty much dismissed what she was saying. I know he was excited. I know they have the dynamic of her being the cautious one and him being the spontaneous one, and like in YJ,IJJ, he was giving her a pep talk to not be afraid of the unknown, but to me, he was still talking her into marrying him. And that's not something anyone should be talked into.

The only thing I actually liked about the proposal was that Rory didn't say Yes or No in front of all those people. I think I heaved a huge sigh of relief. I applaud the writers for this because I think it's good for people to see that you aren't obligated to give an answer just because you're put on the spot. Oh, and I also like that Logan wasn't pissy that he didn't get an immediate yes. Imagine if that had been Dean!

Off topic: I feel the same way about proposals without a ring. To me, having a ring ready symbolizes that the proposer deliberated on the decision, taking it seriously and whatnot. Without one, it always seems like a not well thought out plan. Perhaps ironically, I get weirded out when I see a couple picking out an engagement ring together. Either he asked without a ring, or he hasn't even officially proposed yet, but is all, hey, if I were to propose, what ring do you want? Just weird to me either way.

Edited September 11, 2015 by takalotti

[amensisterfriend]

My eternal Rory/Logan question that makes a surprising bit of difference in how I feel about them at any given time (and, no, this one isn't about pilfering trinkets, swigging from flasks or sleeping with bridesmaids!): Are Logan's smiles *supposed* to be cocky, smarmy smirks or just genuine smiles? Because when I view them as the former, I find myself struggling to believe in his sincerity even when the writing would indicate that we're supposed to. I just can't quite trust him or the depth of his feelings for Rory when we see that self-impressed smirk flashing at odd moments---it feels like he's playing a game to amuse himself and that getting the heretofore 'innocent' Rory to fall for him is yet another thing that he's "won." But then when I view those aforementioned smirks as just the way the actor happens to smile, my whole view of him and of them shifts. 

 

I've recently fallen in love with Castle, who's a fellow smirker and actually quite similar to Logan in many ways---a wealthy, witty, playful semi-reformed party boy, extroverted risk taker and ladies' man who nonetheless has a good heart underneath, etc. But somehow with Castle I see more genuine charm than smarm, more genuine boyish enthusiasm (which is ironic given that Castle is older!) than obnoxious acting out, and more sincere feeling for the serious brunette he falls for. With Logan I vacillate quite a bit and am never quite sure how I feel about him---and I have a sneaking suspicion that the writers were just as uncertain as to how to depict him :)  Castle, by contrast, is pretty clearly supposed to be a genuinely good guy from the beginning and someone we want Beckett to be with---while with Rory/Logan it's sometimes hard to shake the feeling that we were supposed to want Rory to 'wake up' and be with a different type of guy. 

 

If only they had cast a less smirk--prone actor, I have a feeling I'd have a clearer and more consistent opinion about the Rory/Logan pairing :) 

 

Oh, and to (finally!) answer Jay's question: I find Logan proposing in public and at an extravagant event to be very in character, as was Rory's initial uncertainty and need to deliberate about it privately before making a decision. Having said that, I think him proposing just as she was graduating was pretty out of character---nearly all of the modern day Rorys and Logans I've known in real life didn't marry until their late twenties or early thirties, and Logan, who's far more comfortable with risks, uncertainty and ambiguity than most people suddenly needing Rory to either commit to marrying him at such a young age or no longer date him at all felt really off to me. It goes with the sort of erratic pacing of S7, though---Logan was a totally responsible adult determined to make it on his own and then flaked out and regressed completely by responding to adversity with booze and idiocy and spontaneous trips he can no longer afford. Rather than having them break up then, the writers hastily stuck them back in a good place for just a couple of episodes before Logan suddenly decides he needs Rory to be his spouse and then breaks up with her, thus clearing the way for Rory to end the series single like the writers probably planned all along but didn't know how to execute. (I think the Lorelai/Christopher stuff was similarly erratically paced and just weirdly inconsistent, but this isn't the thread to ramble about that!)  

[takalotti]

I think Logan's smiles were intended to be charming and winning. But I agree, mostly smirks in my eyes.

And I agree that his public proposal was totally in character. I just think they're awful :)

[Aloeonatable]

Maybe Logan figured that Rory wouldn't come live with him in California if he didn't commit completely. 

 

Definitely came across as a smirk. I don't watch The Good Wife, do his smiles seem more sincere in that role?

[Iseut]

Smirrrrrk! I have warmed to R/L over several viewings, but still find him way too smirk most of the time.

Though I hated his Bridesmaids shenanigans, I did think it was sort of sweet when he was trying to make up and suggested that Rory make a pro/con list and then reassured her that he wasn't mocking her when she protested. Just a sign of how well they knew each other, and how he had grown from teasing her about her overachieving behavior to respecting and even relying on it.

Hated how he treated Jess and how that was never resolved. She should have dumped him for good and forced him to apologize to Jess. Most of all he makes me angry that I have to sympathize with jess, who I'd always found tiresome.

[Kohola3]

At the same time Rory is facing the consequences of yachtgate and freaking that she has a record, Logan's response is to offer her a lawyer to bail her out and then throws her a "jolly good felon" party.  Just another nail in his Richie Rich coffin for me.  He had no insight as to how something like this would (or at least should) impact the kind of person that Rory USED to be before meeting him.  Rory almost had a nervous breakdown after missing her mother's graduation but she blows off a possible felony conviction with hardly a second thought.

 

He turned her into a thoughtless, selfish, entitled brat who didn't care a whit how her "youthful indiscretion" and subsequent meltdown would affect her family and friends.  As long as it was fun and games, it was all good.  No matter what the issue, just throw money at it and it would all be good.

[Guest]

At the same time Rory is facing the consequences of yachtgate and freaking that she has a record, Logan's response is to offer her a lawyer to bail her out and then throws her a "jolly good felon" party.  Just another nail in his Richie Rich coffin for me.  He had no insight as to how something like this would (or at least should) impact the kind of person that Rory USED to be before meeting him.  Rory almost had a nervous breakdown after missing her mother's graduation but she blows off a possible felony conviction with hardly a second thought.

 

He turned her into a thoughtless, selfish, entitled brat who didn't care a whit how her "youthful indiscretion" and subsequent meltdown would affect her family and friends.  As long as it was fun and games, it was all good.  No matter what the issue, just throw money at it and it would all be good.

 

I completely (but respectfully) disagree. I don't think he turned Rory into anything. She was the pursuer for most of the relationship. She pushed him to steal the yacht.  He got in trouble as well due to her dumb, felonious idea, yet he tried to fix it for her. When that didn't work, he tried to cheer her up (a misguided, immature method, but he still tried).

 

Rory already was living the life of a spoiled, entitled brat by that point. Look at how she felt entitled to Dean because he was hers first.  She relied on her grandparents and later father's money a lot of the time - I don't think that can be pinned on Logan.  She happily moved in with Logan, didn't pay rent or other bills, and yet still saw herself as a struggling, working class person.  I thought Logan and Rory belonged together in part because they were both selfish, spoiled individuals for much of their relationship.  

[dustylil]

Rory can't visit with an old friend just because he was her boyfriend at one time?  Give me a break.

 

Hmm. Perhaps we should get the perspective of Lindsay on this one :)

 

I  agree that  Logan did not turn Rory into an entitled brat. As deeja commented, she was on this path long before he came into the picture. And at the age of twenty, Rory surely should have known that thievery or joy yachting was wrong no matter in whose company she was. As for Logan,  in his world throwing money at problems did tend to make them go away. Indeed, had she used his lawyer, it seems unlikely there would have been any serious consequences for the boatnapping.

 

While I did find his woe-is-my-rich-little-self whining tiresome (particularly as there was a straightforward way of resolving the issue), I did like the way he called Rory out on her apparent scorn for trust fund children and lack of awareness of her own situation. Apparently, seven years in the orbit of the senior Gilmores, three years at an elite prep school and the near completion of a cost-free degree from an Ivy League university did not provide her with the observational and analytical skills to recognize her own social and economic status.

[Kohola3]

I don't know. I agree that while Rory was indeed a spoiled brat, I honestly don't think that if she had not met McSmirk she would have responded to disappointment by stealing a yacht. His posse plus the Brigade enabled her to expand her repertoire of unlawful reactions.

[amensisterfriend]

Heh---thanks to those who answered my question about Smirky McSmarm ;) (Who I do sometimes enjoy, especially during times when he seems like the only GG male without an anger explosiveness issue/mood disorder who actually derived a little bit of joy from life, but...argh, that insufferable smirk!!!) 

 

 

 

I don't know. I agree that while Rory was indeed a spoiled brat, I honestly don't think that if she had not met McSmirk she would have responded to disappointment by stealing a yacht. His posse plus the Brigade enabled her to expand her repertoire of unlawful reactions.

 

I think we once debated something similar with regard to whether Lorelai is to blame for some of Luke's missteps, but for me it comes down to the belief that Rory is the person responsible for the changes in Rory. Choosing to be around guys like Logan and his "friends" may have helped to bring out certain less appealing (and law-abiding!) facets of her character, but IMO those traits and impulses were there to begin with, as exemplified by the fact that she was the one to initiate the yacht theft, declare that she was dropping out of school after being criticized, etc.

 

I think Rory was at a point where she was ready to rebel and take risks and defy her Stars Hollowish upbringing for the first time, and Logan was more the SYMPTOM of that than the cause. She had changed and, for me, Logan was further proof of that transformation, not the reason for it. The Rory of previous seasons couldn't even bear to hang out with hard drinking, elitist, womanizing frat boy types (even as recently as Last Week Fights she's in agony being out with the guys who are a comparatively tame version of Logan and his friends!), let alone volunteering to be one of Logan's many, er, 'casual dates' (is that what the kids are calling it these days?!) when he made it clear he didn't want to be anyone's boyfriend. The writers had already decided to make Rory a lot less angelic when they had her sleep with Dean. We hadn't even met Logan yet.   

 

To Logan's credit, he never encouraged her to steal yachts or drop out of school or even to party too much---as he points out in LMHYBRO, all that was always HER choice. In fact, he even seemed disturbed by her not returning to Yale in S6, though he chose to support her and let her figure things out for herself rather than directly challenging her choices the way that Jess and Paris did. (Neither approach is 'wrong', IMO, just different) I think because Rory is a more introverted and often passive character, people tend to credit---and, in this case, blame---the stronger, more vibrant personalities in her life for things that Rory herself is responsible for. (And, FWIW, I say this as someone who loves Rory much more than most people here!)

 

All that said, while Logan/Rory did grow on me more (or at least bother me less!), I do agree with the basic point that she wasn't her 'best self' around him. She never seemed fully comfortable and Rory-ish to me, but that's likely due more to the actors' chemistry than a deliberate writing choice. (I actually think the Rory/Logan chemistry is average by GG standards---nowhere near as strong as Rory/Jess's or as natural as Lorelai/Christopher's, IMO, but for me they at least seemed to have slightly more of a romantic spark than the joyless, flat Rory/Dean or post-S4 Lorelai/Luke!) 

 

And don't let this post give you guys the wrong impression: as I've detailed in other threads, I have MANY issues with Logan. I loathe the trinket pilfering, the drinking on his own every time things goes wrong, the bridesmaids debacle and his exaggeratedly 'playboy' stuff in general, the condescension, the arrogance, the fact that he chose to still spend his time with the loathsome Colin and Finn, the way his 'poor little rich boy' issues are depicted as such a woeful burden, and of course the aforementioned smirk. I just  don't think he's too blame for Rory's missteps---SHE'S to blame for those.     

Edited September 15, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[dustylil]

I completely agree that Rory might not have stolen a yacht had she not fallen in with the very well-to-do Logan and his cronies. But she was distraught that particular evening and had few coping mechanisms to deal with rejection and disappointment. She was also someone who was used to getting - and who expected to get - what she wanted, when she wanted it. And finally she was not used to thinking of the feelings of others.

Had she been with - say - the pliable Lane that night, she may have taken a car or a motorcycle.

By these comments I do not mean to suggest that Rory was a bad person. Just that having been cosseted and petted for all of her two decades, she was not capable with dealing with the metaphoric kicks in the teeth that  life sometimes brings..

Edited September 15, 2015 by dustylil

[junienmomo]

The public proposal and the demand that it be all or nothing on the move to California I found to be extremely out of character for Logan. He didn't do public things, with the exception of the class disturbance, and that was a prank, which are generally intended to be public.

He quietly showed up at Lorelai's to discuss marrying Rory. The L&DB activities were secret for the most part. He held back rather than take leadership roles, he was fairly passive socially, going along with others' ideas of the great parties, probably providing a large amount of the financial resources. Rory, along with some others, presumed that he was a leader and by default liked public events, but his actual behaviors told me otherwise.

 

Since the writers clearly needed Luke and Lorelai together at the end, but didn't want both GG in permanent relationships, they needed Logan to do something unacceptable so Rory would turn down his proposal. Another bridesmaids' event would have been unspeakable. If he hadn't gone tone-deaf to Rory's wishes, he would have given her a romantic proposal a la his visit from London and the audience would have called her crazy for not accepting him, especially when it seemed the alcohol abuse was under control.

 

Of course, I also believe that the whole graduation party sucked, and Emily and Richard would not naturally have done that song. It felt like it was one of the acting bones thrown to them as the season ended. 

[Aloeonatable]

I do not think it was out of character for Logan to propose publicly nor to want Rory to move with him to California. He must have felt that she loved him enough and wanted to marry him. They must have discussed it at some point because Rory said to him after her graduation that she had thought of that possibility positively. He seemed the type for the grand gesture. What he didn't count on was that she wasn't ready at that time. However, he was. I agreed with him that it was pointless to try the long distance relationship again. It wasn't moving forward.

[Kohola3]

He seemed the type for the grand gesture.

 

His idea of a grand gesture was to force her into accepting what he wanted..  The whole bit with sending her showers of flowers and having a coffee cart follow her around all day was in the same vein.  

[Aloeonatable]

Not to mention offering Rory his attorney to aid her after she stole a yacht, buying her a Birkin bag, or diamonds for Valentines Day. 

[CoolMom]

I do not think it was out of character for Logan to propose publicly nor to want Rory to move with him to California. He must have felt that she loved him enough and wanted to marry him. They must have discussed it at some point because Rory said to him after her graduation that she had thought of that possibility positively. He seemed the type for the grand gesture. What he didn't count on was that she wasn't ready at that time. However, he was. I agreed with him that it was pointless to try the long distance relationship again. It wasn't moving forward.

 

I also think along these lines because they did discuss "considering" each other when she was making the decision about the job.  Didn't she say that to Paris causing her to go on a rant about not considering a guy who wouldn't be around in x number of years.

[takalotti]

This came from the One Is the Lonliest Number thread. But I try not to counter points there (at least this much) since the whole point of that thread is to voice your UO with little to no backlash :)

Yeah, I thought Rory was refreshingly mature and relatable during that early part of the Logan relationship. She attempted to have a casual sexual relationship with him, realized that it wasn't for her, and told him that honestly. She didn't really play games or act hurt but say nothing (Ahem, S6 Lorelai...).

I saw that early part of their relationship differently. I think she did play games (though not consciously) and did feel hurt but said nothing at times.

When she first started pursuing Logan (sharing research for his YDN article, her behavior at the vow renewal), I don't think she went into it intending to be one of several girls Logan dated. Once he mentioned girlfriend/boyfriend status vs. keeping things casual she quickly said she was cool with casual. But was she really?

Because then she saw him with another girl while shopping with her mom. And she sure looked hurt, but covered it up because she knew she shouldn't be since she signed up for casual. I think somewhere in the back of her mind, Rory thought that once Logan gave her a chance he wouldn't want other girls, so she agreed to casual because it wouldn't stick for long.

At the very least, I think she believed that 'casual' meant "I'm not going to do boyfriend things like calling you every day or bringing you flowers or whatever obligations come with that title." Not "I'm going to date other girls at the same time."

And then her response was not to vocalize her hurt or dissatisfaction with the arrangement, but to go on a date in front of him. After she accepted Robert's invite, her face really looked like "Two can play at this game" to me. Her behavior during the Robert portion of the date didn't seem like she was genuinely trying to casually date him. It was all about making Logan jealous. Would she even have accepted if the date weren't at a party Logan was going to, and if it were with someone Logan didn't know (so it wouldn't get back to Logan later)? I don't think so.

And while her game had the immediate results she wanted (Logan getting jealous and making out with her) it didn't have the long term results she wanted as indicated by her drunken breakdown.

Only THEN did she finally admit to herself and Logan that casual was not for her.

[pawneerangers]

I wrote paragraphs in the unpopular opinions thread about why I grew to really like Logan and the Rory and Logan relationship so I don't want to repeat myself but I would love to hear from other people who like them too! When did you start liking them? What are your favorite moments between them? When do you think he fell in love with Rory? What do you think Logan would be doing now? If we can post pictures here it would be fun to share favorite pictures of them too. I just can't figure out how!  

[Guest]

I liked him from pretty much the beginning. He challenged her, but supported her at the same time. I thought he was a good fit for her.  They were both spoiled and entitled, so I think they would have had some relationship challenges, but could work through them.  

I think he would be working somewhere in social media - maybe back in the Huntzberger fold by now running like their social media division or something.  

[HeySandyStrange]

I think I started to like Logan (and by extension his relationship with Rory) when I realized he wasn't just some douchy clone of Tristan. Yes, he could be a spoiled, entitled rich boy, but I liked that there were other sides to him. As evidenced with Rory, he could also be thoughtful and he didn't seem to look down on people that weren't of his social class. He was, for the most part, a pretty laid-back and pleasant person. Compared to the attitudes of a lot of the men on GG (aggressive and moody), Logan was a breath of fresh air. I think Logan was the most balanced, mature romantic partner Rory had and theirs was one of the better written relationships on the show.

 

As to what Logan is doing now...I'm guessing he did branch out into business world, maybe in social media or something like that, at  least in ASP's version of things. In may head I would love it he went off the rails, so to speak, and is doing something totally different with his life.

[Aloeonatable]

 

. I think Logan was the most balanced, mature romantic partner Rory had and theirs was one of the better written relationships on the show.

 

I did not like Logan much, but of course he would have to be the most mature partner for Rory. She dated Jess and Dean when they were in high school. When we first met Logan, he was neither balanced nor mature in his actions. I did appreciate that he grew up, but he had so many flaws, even as a young adult, for me to root for a Rory/Logan end game. 

[HeySandyStrange]

I did not like Logan much, but of course he would have to be the most mature partner for Rory. She dated Jess and Dean when they were in high school. When we first met Logan, he was neither balanced nor mature in his actions. I did appreciate that he grew up, but he had so many flaws, even as a young adult, for me to root for a Rory/Logan end game. 

 

Logan definitely came off as a spoiled ass when we first meet him, but I appreciated he actually grew and had a likable side to him (more then Dean or Jess, imo). I don't think he should be endgame for Rory, not just because of his flaws but hers as well. Like deaja said, both were spoiled and entitled and I think in the long run that would make a relationship hard for them. They both need someone a little more grounded, imo. I'm actually hoping that Logan will be happily partnered up with an smart, nice non-Rory lady. I could see him settled down at this point, he seemed more ready for it then Rory was.

[pawneerangers]

I like to think of Logan doing something really different from what we or his family expected. I read a fanfic where he's a detective and even though it's not realistic it was fun and interesting to see Logan in that type of role. Also his parents would hate that lol. But the funny thing about Logan running away from his family's business is that I could see him as a better fit for journalism than Rory ever was. We already know he's a very good writer and he likes debating and discussing issues. He would be more assertive than Rory and is less socially awkward so I could see people opening up and giving candid answers. Rory seems to fit better with fiction, writing or editing or teaching it.

 

Whatever he's doing, I hope he's earned his own money and not depending on his parents. It would be fun to see him living a very middle class life. I think that would do a lot to improve his likability with some fans. 

 

As evidenced with Rory, he could also be thoughtful and he didn't seem to look down on people that weren't of his social class. He was, for the most part, a pretty laid-back and pleasant person. Compared to the attitudes of a lot of the men on GG (aggressive and moody), Logan was a breath of fresh air.

 

I always say this too! Gilmore Girls other male characters were so aggressively rude and bitter all the time so Logan's energy came as a relief for me. He had at least as many flaws as the other guys did but they were different flaws which made things more interesting. And a lot of his flaws stemmed from his upbringing. He was both pressured and spoiled which is not a good combination lol. He's still responsible for his choices so I'm not pulling the poor little rich boy thing. A lot of people have lives a whole lot worse and turn out better. Believe me, I do not feel sorry for him! But a lot of us have to struggle to overcome how we were raised and to figure out what other people expect from us versus who we want to be ourselves. I'm still doing it now so I understand Logan still doing that in his early 20s. 

 

I like him for Rory because Rory can be an introverted and even passive personality and he encourages her to experience and enjoy life. And he is actually 

the best male communicator on the show, though on this show that's not saying much lol. There are a few different times when he was the one communicating maturely and directly about their relationship without being harsh and angry like most GG males while Rory was avoidant. He didn't just think charm and big gestures were enough, he did try to talk and connect when issues came up. He has the wit and intellect to keep up but he has a good heart too. He's not there just for the good times and was the first to show up at the hospital when Richard had another heart attack. I just think he and Rory both make each other better, not just Rory making him more serious and deep. And he likes that she is kind of dorky and bookish. If she changed, to me that is on her and not Logan. He liked that she wasn't the typical debutante type and made that clear IMO. 

 

I am not excusing his flaws and I know many hate him. I think if I knew him I wouldn't want to date him but I'm not Rory. I just think he they're each other's right match and care about each other a lot. I also think other posters are right that it depends a little on whether you think Matt C.'s smile is sincere or a smug smirk lol. I think that's just how he smiles so I see him as more genuine and sincere! 

 

I first really liked him when he insisted that Rory take his car to get back to Lorelai faster in Say Something. He showed real compassion and it was clear to me then that he could switch out of fun party mode and be serious when he's supposed to be. 

 

This is all just my take! 

[amensisterfriend]

Rory and Logan have a lot of great scenes in S7 as well, though I never figured out exactly what Logan did for a living :) There are a couple of times when he showed up back in CT to surprise her and Rory/AB looks as genuinely happy and delighted as I'd seen her look around any of her love interests. And I love the "work dork" thing, how genuinely enthusiastic he was about work and how much Rory loved that about him, and hated how they had to have him 'relapse' into being an irresponsible idiot with Colin and Finn toward the end of the season. 

 

Speaking of Colin and Finn, I love when Rory yells at them in the hospital after Logan's accident. As weird as this sounds, her genuinely deep worry over Logan and her frustration with his friends was one of those moments where I thought 'wow, she she cares about him more than I'd realized.' 

Edited March 3, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[Eyes High]

I am not excusing his flaws and I know many hate him. I think if I knew him I wouldn't want to date him but I'm not Rory. I just think he they're each other's right match and care about each other a lot. I also think other posters are right that it depends a little on whether you think Matt C.'s smile is sincere or a smug smirk lol. I think that's just how he smiles so I see him as more genuine and sincere! 

 

Matt Czuchry does have a supremely punchable face, but that's not his fault, anymore than Milo Ventimiglia's perpetual half-smirk (due to a congenital nerve issue, I think) is his. Besides, MC has the perfect look for playing a rich, arrogant, privileged douchebag: blonde, good-looking, and blessed with a million watt smile indistinguishable from a smirk.

 

Logan was such a douchebag. You can judge a man by the company he keeps, and his friends were pieces of shit, so on that basis alone we can safely conclude that Logan's a piece of shit. You can also judge a man not by how he treats his equals, but by how he treats those who are not his equals, and we can see by his swiping something from Emily's house and blaming the maid that he is also a piece of shit. Again, on this basis alone, we can conclude that Logan is a garbage human being.

 

Logan was all graciousness until he felt threatened or challenged, at which point he flaunted his believed superiority (financial and intellectual) like every other rich, privileged jackass. Of course he urged Rory to be carefree and "lighten up"; he was accustomed to years of his antics never amounting to any serious punishment, and his series of past expulsions became a hilarious anecdote instead of the future killer it would have been for Rory or anyone else. He treated other people like garbage, insisted that Rory own her privilege when he used his own privilege like a shield and a sword as it suited him, threw tantrums when things didn't go his way, cheerfully burned through his family money to fund his escapades all the while moaning and groaning about how awful it was that Mitchum expected anything of him, fled from his responsibilities when things got rough, and then played the victim despite chiding Rory for doing the same. When Rory confronted him about sleeping with the bridesmaids, he painted them with misogynistic slurs to discredit them. He was always (remember him disrupting Rory's class just for shits and giggles? Take a seat, asshole) and remained a thoughtless, entitled, arrogant, morally repulsive little shit, right up until the back end of Season 7 when he bailed for Las Vegas and when he issued Rory an ultimatum and insisted his dreams trump hers, the latter showing that he'd learned fuck-all, despite his big show of humility and penitence with Lorelai.

 

Rory refusing Logan was the wisest decision she ever made. She's no saint, but she deserves better than Logan. Pretty much everyone deserves better than Logan. The fact that Rory stayed with him for as long as she did seriously diminished my esteem of her. No woman of good character or intelligence, much less Rory's supposed good character or intelligence, would want anything to do with Logan on a long-term basis. 

 

I like him for Rory because Rory can be an introverted and even passive personality and he encourages her to experience and enjoy life.

Introverted people "experience and enjoy life." We just experience and enjoy it without acting like drunken, entitled assholes. 

 

The idea that there was something wrong with Rory that Logan "fixed" is bullshit. Rory didn't need to be fixed, and Logan didn't fix her. If anything, he was a bad influence on her, and if anyone "fixed" his toxic influence on her, it sure as hell wasn't Logan.

 

Honestly, I don't think I'd mind Logan so much if we didn't have an example of the anti-Logan, being Season 6 Jess, who is everything Logan is not. Seriously, that episode with Logan and Jess interacting was some Goofus and Gallant shit. Jess in Season 6 is more of a true gentleman than Logan will ever be, although Logan's too much of a classist idiot to understand that. I'd hoped that Logan could change the way Jess changed, but he learned nothing, as his drunken Season 7 Las Vegas escapades and his ultimatum to Rory showed. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Eyes High

[amensisterfriend]

I go through times where I don't like him mich either, though I'm not as adamant about it as you, Eyes High and think he's actually got a lot of good points. But I don't in any way think pawneerangers was suggesting that Rory needed to be fixed, just that he brought a sense of fun and adventure to her life. As a fellow introvert, I personally appreciate having a few people like that in my life! And as far as Logan not handling adversity well...what GG character does, especially the males?! :)

[pawneerangers]

Eyes High, you stated your strangely hostile thoughts on Logan as fact, but they're actually just your opinion, and not one that everyone should feel shamed into agreeing with. And the idea of mine that you charmingly declared "bullshit" was never put forth to begin with. No one is obligated to be positive, but there's no need to go off on people for things they never said in the first place.

[photo fox]

Honestly, I don't think I'd mind Logan so much if we didn't have an example of the anti-Logan, being Season 6 Jess, who is everything Logan is not. Seriously, that episode with Logan and Jess interacting was some Goofus and Gallant shit. Jess in Season 6 is more of a true gentleman than Logan will ever be, although Logan's too much of a classist idiot to understand that. I'd hoped that Logan could change the way Jess changed, but he learned nothing, as his drunken Season 7 Las Vegas escapades and his ultimatum to Rory showed.

I'm not sure if it's really fair to compare Logan - or anyone - to S6 Jess. S6 Jess was practically a unicorn, and barely more than a plot point. Would he have continued to be so level-headed, etc., if he'd been around for more than one episode? But I digress.

I liked Logan because I felt like he just "fit" with Rory*. I also felt like he respected Rory's relationship with Lorelai, while realizing it was a separate issue from his own relationship with her. By that I mean that he didn't date her because of (Dean) or in spite of (Jess) her mom. He wasn't intimidated by or jealous of their closeness, which I think a lot of guys would be.

The first scene where I liked him was the "Master and Commander" scene. I'm a big fan of anyone who thinks debate is fun.

*I should mention that the first time through, I started watching in Season 3, so I probably have a different view of Rory than many people do. "Real" Rory to me is more Yale Rory.

[Eyes High]

Eyes High, you stated your strangely hostile thoughts on Logan as fact, but they're actually just your opinion, and not one that everyone should feel shamed into agreeing with. And the idea of mine that you charmingly declared "bullshit" was never put forth to begin with. No one is obligated to be positive, but there's no need to go off on people for things they never said in the first place.

You implied that there was something wrong with Rory being "introverted and even passive," and that it was good that Logan encouraged her to "experience and enjoy life," suggesting firstly that she needed the encouragement, secondly that introverted and passive people are incapable of "experiencing and enjoying life" without outside assistance, thirdly that Logan was an expert on "experiencing and enjoying life" possessed of knowledge on the subject of experiencing and enjoying life Rory didn't have (bring a boring and passive introvert, naturally), and fourthly that said encouragement was a good thing. She did not, they aren't, he wasn't, and it wasn't.

I'm not sure if it's really fair to compare Logan - or anyone - to S6 Jess. S6 Jess was practically a unicorn, and barely more than a plot point. Would he have continued to be so level-headed, etc., if he'd been around for more than one episode? But I digress.

I liked Logan because I felt like he just "fit" with Rory*. I also felt like he respected Rory's relationship with Lorelai, while realizing it was a separate issue from his own relationship with her. By that I mean that he didn't date her because of (Dean) or in spite of (Jess) her mom. He wasn't intimidated by or jealous of their closeness, which I think a lot of guys would be.

*I should mention that the first time through, I started watching in Season 3, so I probably have a different view of Rory than many people do. "Real" Rory to me is more Yale Rory.

Whether Yale Rory is Pod Rory or Real Rory is another thread, but I'm not the first one to notice that Rory's transformation into Yale Rory, who also happens to be boat-stealing, dropout Rory, coincided with Logan's involvement in her life. That Yale Rory is compatible with Logan speaks rather poorly of Rory, wouldn't you say? Logan's compatibility with Colin, Finn, etc. speaks rather poorly of him, after all.

As for Logan not being threatened by Lorelai's relationship with Rory, it doesn't make him any less of a garbage human being.

On Jess, I realize that it's convenient to dismiss him as "practically a unicorn" to write off his character development and superiority to Logan, but the contrast between his maturity and Logan's clownish dickishness was painful, and, I assume, intentional.

It's kind of sad that Logan is such a pathetic cartoon of a rich douchebag, because while there are plenty of real life Logans running around--some of them grow out of it, thank God--some of the kindest, most responsible, most honourable people I've met were extremely wealthy.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Eyes High

[HeySandyStrange]

I think it is possible to like characters like Logan despite their flaws. Some of things Logan did where annoying and douchey, however he was hardly the only character who acted like a complete ass on occasion. I think you could pretty much give a decent laundry list of bad behavior for each and every major character. Short of murder or some other morally bankrupt action, I don't see why it is so terrible to for some of us to like Logan for being less then perfect.

Edited March 3, 2016 by HeySandyStrange

[Sara2009]

What people are expressing are still ultimately opinions though. You can use facts to support the opinion that Logan is a good person OR a bad person. Neither opinion makes one an idiot.

[brightside]

Over in the UO thread amensisterfriend mentioned she'd be interested in my favorite Rory/Logan moments, so I've been coming up with a list. Apologies for length and repeated sentiments. 

 

• I love the scene where Rory confronts him in Norman Mailer, I'm Pregnant! and he turns her words on her to at least try to intimidate her/throw her off the trail. It's clear to me by MC's facial expressions and by Logan's later invitation to Rory that he is concerned about what she knows and I like him being quick with the words to try and buy some time
• Convincing her to jump in YJIJJ. Logan's interest in/knowledge of reporters and their work makes him a great conversational partner for Rory at the very least. This was also my first real clue that he wasn't just a stupid rich slacker--he had strong opinions on the works of those journalists. 
• Giving Rory praise and one small critique of the article in The Party's Over. I appreciate that Logan is not a fan of similes. Me too, Logan. Me too.
• Being upfront with Rory in WBB about what he was looking for--I'm so into open and honest communication and it happens rarely on this show.
• Giving her the car in Say Something. That's just nice and helpful.
• Okay...so...I know he isn't behaving well in Pulp Fiction (though I do like that he checked that Rory is still okay with their arrangement after she sees him with another girl) but I think the kissing at Finn's party is really hot. I know his jealousy is making him act like a crazy person but I can't help it. I'm into it. 
• In But I'm a Gilmore! the little knowing smile and look he gives Rory at her relief that Honor is his sister.
• I enjoy both the scene at the newspaper and the scene on the dock in Blame Booze and Melville. They end up making a horrible choice but I do enjoy Logan's willingness to do whatever to make Rory feel better. I wouldn't mind a boyfriend who would drive to New York with me as a mood booster. 
• The hug in A House is Not a Home. Rory has maybe 2 normal hugs in the whole show and this is one of 'em.
• I think both the conversation in 6.01 and his reluctance to bring up Yale in 6.03 are very telling of Logan's opinion of Rory leaving Yale. He's not into it--but he isn't pushing her. I think he handled it better than most of the people in Rory's life, tbh.
• I really respect that he didn't just say "I love you" because he thought he had to, and I love that Rory was chill about it. Very mature for both of them, I think. Also...if anyone wants to just get me a Birkin bag for no reason PM me and I'll send you my address...
• I will always laugh at MC's delivery of "But...but why would you do that?" after finding our Rory told the minister they were having sex. I giggle every time. 
• His scene with Lorelai in Just Like Gwen and Gavin
• The whole YDN sequence in Friday Night's Alright for Fighting, it's nice that he does it for Rory and also a good indicator that Logan is not the big slacker everyone seems to think. He knows his shit--he just doesn't enjoy it. 
• In Driving Miss Gilmore their conversation about his dad is great. He gets in a few funny one-liners and then tries to talk Rory down. I love his little smile when Rory refuses to be talked down.
• Partings. I don't know how anyone could watch that episode and not come away with the opinion that those two are just head over heels in love with each other. 
• The surprise on the roof in 7.05
• I love their fight in 7.08. I think they both have points, the fight escalates, things are said...and then they talk about it like adults. PRAISE. 
• His actions in 7.13 are perfect boyfriend behavior
• I really enjoy the "Well do you belong to me?" conversation in 7.14
• When they get to dinner with Mitchum in 7.15 they have this little exchange "Mr. Huntzberger is already at the table..." "I told you!" that I think is really cute for some reason. I also enjoy Logan's smile whenever Mitchum says something nice about Rory. 
• I very much enjoy the scene at the car in Gilmore Girls Only for a few reasons. I like that he apologizes for his bad behavior (not something people do often on this show), I like that he finally chose to stand up for himself to his dad and I like that they have a calm conversation. 
• Hay Bale Maze is a great Logan episode, but I love the conversation with Lorelai. It's so great. 
• I do like the conversation where he asks for Lorelai's blessing even if the whole time I'm thinking "THIS IS A BAD IDEA, SON."

 

One thing that I think Logan gets too much fault for is the ultimatum. It sucks and I think the whole proposal is poor writing, but I've been a part of a relationship with a rejected proposal. A very similar situation, now that I think about it. I was just too young, I said "I can't even think about this right now" and we tried to continue but it's incredibly hard to keep a relationship alive after a rejected marriage proposal, it was a kiss of death. It's just so obvious that you're both in completely different places. So while it was terrible and I don't think the writing of the whole proposal plot is true to character, I can't really blame him for walking away. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by brightside

[dustylil]

Logan swiping something from Emily and trying to blame it on the maid

 

I don't particularly like having to defend Logan. I find him whiny and tiresome. But he didn't blame the theft of the antique bauble on the maid,  Emily did. Of course he didn't admit to pilfering the item, but he did return it to Lorelai. As his simpering girlfriend stood by. 

[moonb]

I saw that early part of their relationship differently. I think she did play games (though not consciously) and did feel hurt but said nothing at times.

When she first started pursuing Logan (sharing research for his YDN article, her behavior at the vow renewal), I don't think she went into it intending to be one of several girls Logan dated. Once he mentioned girlfriend/boyfriend status vs. keeping things casual she quickly said she was cool with casual. But was she really?

 

This was the one aspect of Rory's season 5 arc that I appreciated - even if I didn't appreciate the income (that Logan ultimately decided that he was boyfriend material for Rory). It's not so strange in college to try casual dating, try to play jealousy games like Rory did, and ultimately decide it doesn't work for you. I liked that Rory came to that realization and was straightforward about it, in comparison to a lot of other critical junctures where she wasn't so honest with herself - dropping out of Yale being the biggest one. If TV worked the way real life does, Logan would simply have disappeared after that - realistic, but bad TV!  I agree, though, with the commenters who said that Logan was more of a sign that Rory had turned toward and enjoyed her grandparents' sort of life already, which there were hints of in earlier seasons. He certainly wasn't a catalyst.

 

I didn't care much for Logan in seasons 5 or 6, but I liked his growth in season 7, particularly in Gilmore Girls Only and Hay Bale Maze when he's walked out on his father and is trying to find his footing. His parallels and differences with where Lorelai and Rory started out were pretty interesting. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by moonb

[Guest]

Please limit your discussion here to discussing Rory and Logan - not what other posters' opinions of Rory and Logan mean about them.  

 

Disagreement is fine, but needs to be civil. Personal attacks and insults toward other posters are never okay. If you are unsure of the difference, please feel free to PM me.  

 

Thank you.

[junienmomo]

One aspect of Logan's character that I really liked was the fact that he was utterly and completely aware that his college years were 'borrowed time.' This is almost certainly due to Mitchum's demands on him. 

He handled that knowledge like most kids would - sometimes behaving very badly, sometimes really appreciating the freedom and wealth that he had. 

I didn't see that Rory entered Yale with any similar perspective. She seemed to be more 'do it just like Chilton and everything will happen for me.' The fact that Logan could help her see the other side was a very good thing for their relationship.

While he strongly wanted to have a career not defined by his father, he rebelled, although did reluctantly fulfill some of his father's demands. I believe that example helped Rory to break away from Lorelai after the yacht felony.

By series' end, I felt they were capable of forging a future permanent relationship, but that it was clearly too early for Rory to agree to it. She was no Christiane Amanpour yet.

 

On a weird semi-related note, I wonder why Logan didn't introduce her to Amanpour. He did namedrop some other famous person, so I could imagine his father's billionaire media position would have made an introduction easy. 

Certainly more plausible than Amanpour having a mini-retreat to Stars Hollow. LOL.

[brightside]

I was rewatching "Super Cool Party People" and I got to the scene where Rory is on the phone with Honor and they discuss Mitchum's distain for Logan's participation in the Life and Death Brigade and how because of that he will not be visiting his son who just had emergency surgery and Honor says "Don't worry about it, I'm sure Logan isn't expecting him"--and I just got unbelievably sad for Logan. It's so horribly depressing that he wouldn't expect his father to visit. 

 

I've seen this episode a few million times so I don't know why that line hasn't struck a chord with me before--but man. That's so rough.