Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[HoodlumSheep]

All i know is that I'm ready for all the mind games. Rumple playing mind games with Killy. Killy playing mind games with himself. Dairy queen playing mind games with Elsa and Emma. Rumple and Dairy Queen playing mind games with each other.

It kind of reminds me of Neverland and what Peter was trying to do, but this time we mighty actually get to see more of it.

If that tumblr spoiler is legit then can we assume sidney's going to be in the episode? Hmmm...now I'm wondering if the other episode titles are alluding to Sidney possibly being offed?

Edited October 17, 2014 by HoodlumSheep

[Emma]

This is floating on Tumblr - 305 description?

What I'd give to see Emma blast Regina into another world and be done with it. Not going to happen, I know, but a girl can dream right?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Emma

[KingOfHearts]

 

This is floating on Tumblr - 305 description?

 

The Witch Hunt parallels just keep on coming, don't they?

[NotBothered]

If Emma doesn't call Regina out on putting Sidney back in the mirror I will be pissed.   I know Sidney wasn't a saint, but really?

[RadioGirl27]

Sneak Peek 2: Anna makes a deal with Rumple

 

Edited to change the link to one with some spoilers.

Edited October 17, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

 

Sneak Peek 2: Anna makes a deal with Rumple

Anna: "Is there something wrong with your skin?"

Love it. Those two are going to be an absolute blast to watch.

Edited October 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[pezgirl7]

Here's a new interview from ETonline.com. Nothing really new, just some cute blurbs.
 

In fact, O'Donoghue spilled that the CaptainSwan date "goes really well" and "they even have a little kiss." If that wasn’t satisfying enough, Morrison chimed in with a sly smile saying, "I've heard it's a really good kiss, according to the editors." Cue the fan-girl squeals of delight!
 
The blonde beauty spilled that she was thrilled to see that Emma’s date-night dress mirrored the way that Hook makes her feel. "This is the first time that Emma is wearing something that is softer and gentler and sweeter and romantic," she said.
"To me, that was really important because I wanted it to be symbolic of something very different than the other times that we've seen her on a date," Morrison remarked of Emma’s varied romantic past. "Now she really likes this guy and she's really genuine about it… and the fact that she feels safe enough and inspired to express that part of herself to him was a really important thing to show."

I really like Jennifer's explanation of why she's wearing the pink dress.

 

ETA sorry, I didn't know this link was posted above.

Edited October 17, 2014 by pezgirl7

[HeimrArnadalr]

So, I guess the second preview means that Agðar and Iðun died on their return journey, not on the way to Misthaven. And Anna's last name is apparently 'Of Arendelle'.

 

Also from the article:

 

 

If [Rumpelstiltskin] can get one of [Anna's] tears then he can take it and do things with it."

 

What sorts of things, I wonder... possibly something to do with the true love potion he wanted to make?

[HoodlumSheep]

Jen is so adorable! That rumple and anna scene is so cute!

I'm loving all these parallels between the characters. This week killy's paralleling anna which will be interesting. It'll be interesting to see the contrast between the two as well. Anna's so naive and will do anything to help her sister, Killy will do anything to help emma but is much more jaded (and currently being blinded by love). I think it'll be a fun episode.

I honestly don't think too much will go horribly wrong in this episode. It'll be the following few episodes when everything explodes in everyone's faces.

[Jean]

I don't know if it's the writing or the actress or both but that's how you do innocence and naivete without coming off like a complete dimwit, aka Belle. Not that I'm rooting for Anna and Rumple to fall in love.

 

 

"Rumple is a selfish kind of guy and he’s addicted to the power, he's addicted to the magic, and he's addicted to his own world and he doesn't really have a lot of time for anyone else," the actor said. "You can hope that he’s going to be nice but maybe not."

I love how Robert just tells it like it is. No need to justify or prevaricate. He also seems to have a better grip on his character than the writers do.

[Serena]

You know, the writers DID say Rumple was selfish the other week at PaleyFest. It's the fans that freaked out at them. I think they're a lot less blinded by their Rumple love than they are of their love of other characters...

[Rumsy4]

Second Sneak Peek looks good too. Looking forward to the episode! And nice interview as well. Are these tears related to Regina's tears in S2? Maybe this is an explanation as to why Rumple had them.

[angelwoody]

The preview of Hook and Rumple looked fun but the story itself seems pretty stupid.  Hook going to Rumple for a favor?  Hook making deals with Rumple (behind Emma's back)?  Yeah, that will totally end well.  

 

Also, I just kind of feel like either bring the hand back permanently or keep the hook.  A "cursed" hand is stupid.  You don't store "evil"  or "bullying" in your freaking hand for crying out loud.  It's your character, heart, mind, soul - and those are the things Hook has done the work on.  

 

I could maybe buy the hand being full of rage as a result of the violent way it was lost...  but even that is a big stretch for me.  It just doesn't seem like it fits with the way magic has been shown to work here.  Not that the writers don't seem to make it up as they go along, but it just doesn't work for me.  Unless it turns out that either (a) Rumple put a curse on the hand, or (b) Hook believes that it's cursed but it was really just Rumple screwing with him.

[Souris]

Also from the article:

If [Rumpelstiltskin] can get one of [Anna's] tears then he can take it and do things with it."

What sorts of things, I wonder... possibly something to do with the true love potion he wanted to make?

 

Hmm, the tears thing is interesting, since it's been brought up tangentially before.

 

I wonder if Rumple might also want some tears from Emma, since she's the Savior and product of True Love. That could tie into whatever plans he has for Hook.

 

And, yes, as much as I love Colin/Bobby scenes, the setup is just as character-nonsensical for Hook as I figured and feared it would be. It would take a much more desperate situation for Hook to make a deal with Rumple.

[angelwoody]

And, yes, as much as I love Colin/Bobby scenes, the setup is just as character-nonsensical for Hook as I figured and feared it would be. It would take a much more desperate situation for Hook to make a deal with Rumple.

Exactly!  Maybe in a desperate bid to save Emma's life or something, but just for their date?  It seems shallow and stupid on his part to become entangled with Rumple for such a stupid reason.  I also hate that he knows that Rumple is in control of his dagger and pretending otherwise and yet is keeping that knowledge to himself.  He above anyone knows how dangerous Rumple can be and yet he's letting the rest of the town (Emma included) remain in the dark.  It just doesn't seem true to his character that he wouldn't at least tell Emma about it. 

[Shanna Marie]

He was still a frat boy bully when he lost he hand though. So there could be some residual piratey-ness remaining. And I guess one could argue that he was at his worst with the hook, and yet he turned good and is sort of at his best currently (at least the best he's been in years) while having his hook.

That's exactly my problem with this. With the hand, he was both a model citizen and a bully and jerk. But in the exact same body configuration he has now, he was at his absolute worst -- so driven by rage that he devoted centuries to revenge, willing to turn over the son of the woman he loved to Pan and work with Pan, willing to work with people like Cora and Regina and flip back and forth between them, willing to take Aurora's heart and turn it over to Cora, willing to attack Belle to demand info on Rumple, willing to shoot a semi-innocent (I have a hard time seeing Belle as fully innocent, since she was siding with and defending the Dark One) woman in the back and wipe her memory, and whatever other nasty things he did. And he was in that same body configuration when he managed to turn himself around and change. So why would a body part he had when he was less evil sidetrack his turnaround, and why wouldn't he be able to come back from even that kind of setback to turn himself around again? He changed from evil and revenge-driven on his own, so why couldn't he resist being a jerk and a bully, especially when there's also some good history to that hand? So I really hope that it's Rumple messing with him.

[retrograde]

I wonder if Rumple might also want some tears from Emma, since she's the Savior and product of True Love. That could tie into whatever plans he has for Hook.

Wouldn't he be better off going after Henry if he wants some innocent person's tears? It would be much easier -- Henry is an idiot. 

[Curio]

I think this is going to be one of those episodes where I have to throw out all logic and reason and just enjoy Colin's performance. I mean, we're going to have: cocky Hook, romantic Hook, frat boy Hook, desperate Hook, hungover Hook, and angsty Hook all in one episode. I'm not saying he should win an Emmy or anything, but the amount of range he'll have to go through will be very entertaining to watch.

[YaddaYadda]

I guess the emphasis is also being put on the fact that Hook is changing/changed.  That was in the dialogue last week when he was trekking in the woods with Elsa and now again today with Rumple.  I guess changing means that everything is changing with him, except the left hand that Rumple seemed fit to keep.  I sort of see where Hook is coming from with the two hands thing if the evening ends where he is hoping it might end.  But what about the other times he'd get together with Emma?  Is he hoping to retain the hand for good?

 

But honestly, and I'll probably get some flack for saying this especially since everyone is responsible for their actions, and I know Milah is just a blip on the radar at this point and I always thought her character questionable at best, but now?  Even more.  They might've brought the worst out of each other.

[HoodlumSheep]

While the situation is stupid, i do like how how they've brought back the hook vs. crocodile aspect from Peter Pan. They're probably fated to forever be trying to screw each other over some way or another.

One can dream that when Hook gets screwed over, maybe he'll be able to turn the situation to his advantage and screw things up for Rumple so it doesn't make him look like too big of an idiot. But Alas, that is a very, very unlikely scenario.

Also, Killy, have you never heard the song "Never Smile at a Crocodile?"

(OT (sorry): there's only one Rumple/Hook video on youtube that uses this song, and i think it's a shame. After 4a is done someone should make an updated version.)

[angelwoody]

I think this is going to be one of those episodes where I have to throw out all logic and reason and just enjoy Colin's performance. I mean, we're going to have: cocky Hook, romantic Hook, frat boy Hook, desperate Hook, hungover Hook, and angsty Hook all in one episode. I'm not saying he should win an Emmy or anything, but the amount of range he'll have to go through will be very entertaining to watch.

You have just sold me on this story line in one paragraph!

[retrograde]

That's exactly my problem with this. With the hand, he was both a model citizen and a bully and jerk. But in the exact same body configuration he has now, he was at his absolute worst -- so driven by rage that he devoted centuries to revenge, willing to turn over the son of the woman he loved to Pan and work with Pan, willing to work with people like Cora and Regina and flip back and forth between them, willing to take Aurora's heart and turn it over to Cora, willing to attack Belle to demand info on Rumple, willing to shoot a semi-innocent (I have a hard time seeing Belle as fully innocent, since she was siding with and defending the Dark One) woman in the back and wipe her memory, and whatever other nasty things he did. And he was in that same body configuration when he managed to turn himself around and change. So why would a body part he had when he was less evil sidetrack his turnaround, and why wouldn't he be able to come back from even that kind of setback to turn himself around again? He changed from evil and revenge-driven on his own, so why couldn't he resist being a jerk and a bully, especially when there's also some good history to that hand? So I really hope that it's Rumple messing with him.

I think Rumple is saying that at the time the hand was cut off he was a jerk, and it is stuck in the place he was in at that time, for whatever reason. Anyway, I think the lesson (other than "Don't mess with Rumple") will ultimately be something like "you can't go home" -- getting his hand cut off was part of his journey to becoming the man he is today, and he has to look forward not backwards. 

Edited October 17, 2014 by retrograde

[HoodlumSheep]

You have just sold me on this story line in one paragraph!

I second this. The whole situation is not ideal, but the episode should be fun. Plus, depending how it plays over the arc, it could still be less stupid and grating than what happened in 3b (very frustrating, but I'll rate it as "meh")

[RadioGirl27]

And, yes, as much as I love Colin/Bobby scenes, the setup is just as character-nonsensical for Hook as I figured and feared it would be. It would take a much more desperate situation for Hook to make a deal with Rumple.

Yeah, all this plot it's so stupid. But I'm sure that A&E, in their incompetence for writting romance, think it's super romantic that he wants his hand to hold Emma.

[Souris]

Wouldn't he be better off going after Henry if he wants some innocent person's tears? It would be much easier -- Henry is an idiot. 

 

Well, yes, Henry is an idiot and would probably cry on cue if told it was for a heroic reason! But I wasn't thinking Rumple would want Emma's tears because of innocence, like he wants Anna's for, but for some other trait -- like her being the product of true love. (Henry's certainly not that.) If Hook and Emma are True Love, then if she's crying over him for some reason, seems like the tears of a product of True Love crying over her True Love have gotta be special and worth something in the magical world.

[FurryFury]

TBH, I'd take Rumple/Regina and Rumple/DQ scenes over Rumple/Hook, but it's still much better than Rumbelle, so I'll go with it. It won't convince me Hook blackmailing Rumple is an idea that makes sense, though, because it doesn't. And Hook's stated reason may be sweet, but I'll never buy it, sorry, shippers. This just isn't the Hook I grew to like in 3A.

 

If Hook and Emma are True Love

 

At this point I'd prefer them to not be a true love, though. Not because I root against them - Hook's still Emma's best developed romance and a clear endgame - but because it would be really unexpected and fun if they ended up together not because of destiny, but because of their own choice.

Edited October 17, 2014 by FurryFury

[ShadowFacts]

This behavior of Hook's just makes him look stupid and reckless.  And I want something more for Emma.  I know she will be understanding and it will all work out, etc. but like someone said upthread, it makes him look very insecure and on the verge of an identity crisis.   I suppose that could be made interesting (in theory), but after what I saw of that sneak peek, to me it just weakens him. 

[scenicbyway]

TBH, I'd take Rumple/Regina and Rumple/DQ scenes over Rumple/Hook, but it's still much better than Rumbelle, so I'll go with it. It won't convince me Hook blackmailing Rumple is an idea that makes sense, though, because it doesn't. And Hook's stated reason may be sweet, but I'll never buy it, sorry, shippers. This just isn't the Hook I grew to like in 3A.

 

At this point I'd prefer them to not be a true love, though. Not because I root against them - Hook's still Emma's best developed romance and a clear endgame - but because it would be really unexpected and fun if they ended up together not because of destiny, but because of their own choice.

 

I think that Charming and Snow are together by choice, not just because they are true love.  Belle and Rumple choose to be together, not because they are true love (but because one of them is completely blind to the fact the other is truly the "dark one".  The only ones who seem influenced by knowing they are true love are Regina and Robin.  The thing is, Robin chose Regina before he even knew about their fate.

 

I see Emma and Hook choosing to be with each other, in spite of the fact they don't know if they are true love.  In fact, that could be part of their storyline.  Do either one of them even believe in "true" love?  I could see Hook believing along the way, he did sacrifice his ship based on love.  I think Emma would take longer to come around even though she's experienced "true" love's kiss with Henry.

This behavior of Hook's just makes him look stupid and reckless.  And I want something more for Emma.  I know she will be understanding and it will all work out, etc. but like someone said upthread, it makes him look very insecure and on the verge of an identity crisis.   I suppose that could be made interesting (in theory), but after what I saw of that sneak peek, to me it just weakens him. 

  Wanting to hold Emma with both hands doesn't make him weak.  Who wouldn't want that opportunity if it was readily available?  I do think he's jumping the gun a bit since it's just their first date, I could see wedding or something, but it does seem a bit soon.  I'd say the "hand" storyline fits into a bigger arc than their date.  The date is just a way to introduce the "hand."  I think Hook is actually pretty secure in asking for it, he's doing it for himself.  He wants to hold her, feel her.  It's really about him.

[FurryFury]

I think that Charming and Snow are together by choice, not just because they are true love.

 

I don't disagree. However, the show's clear overreliance on the true love/destined lovers trope is really annoying at this point. It works OK with an established fairy tale couple, but must it happen with every single romance? 

 

Wanting to hold Emma with both hands doesn't make him weak.

 

But it makes him mushy. It makes him a love interest without any other agenda except for Emma. I simply find it boring. For me, romance only works when it happens on equal terms. CS doesn't seem to be on equal terms anymore. At least in Neverland, Hook had scenes with Pan and Charming and I expected to him to play a part in the main plot. Now? He's all about Emma, all the time. Even his scene with David last episode was about Emma, as was his scene with Elsa, essentially.

Edited October 17, 2014 by FurryFury

[RadioGirl27]

This hand storyline is like everything in this show. A&E have a "brilliant" idea and they just write it in the show without considering if it makes sense or not. That way we end up with Hook promising Emma that she is not going to loose him and in the next episode we have him blackmailing the Dark One. It's stupid, it makes no sense and it's out of character, but they only care about whatever twist they have in mind (in this case, it's probably something about the hat). They have done it so many times now that sometimes I really wonder why I keep watching the show.

Edited October 17, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[KingOfHearts]

Besides the senselessness of it, my big problem with the hand plot is that it takes a major arc way too lightly. Hook's hand signifies his and Rumple's entire relationship over the course of centuries filled with rivalry. Not only that, but it's also repairing someone's disability. Reducing that down to an episode "hazard of the day" just doesn't sit right with me. 

[ShadowFacts]

 

Wanting to hold Emma with both hands doesn't make him weak.  Who wouldn't want that opportunity if it was readily available?  I do think he's jumping the gun a bit since it's just their first date, I could see wedding or something, but it does seem a bit soon.  I'd say the "hand" storyline fits into a bigger arc than their date.  The date is just a way to introduce the "hand."  I think Hook is actually pretty secure in asking for it, he's doing it for himself.  He wants to hold her, feel her.  It's really about him.

Making a blackmail-based deal with the Dark One who cut if off in the first place is what I'm seeing as him looking reckless and stupid, thus weakening his character for me.  The reason he is secure in asking for it is because he thinks he has a sword dangling over Gold's head.  You don't blackmail the Dark One, he can make you disappear.  They're making his brain take a vacation so they can make their plot work wherever it's headed.

Edited October 17, 2014 by ShadowFacts

[YaddaYadda]

These things are always done for the sake of plot.  We all know Hook knows better than to make deals with the Dark One, he lost that same hand he wants reattached over the last "deal" he made with him. 

 

They should change the name of the show from OUaT to PLOT!

 

That being said, I will be checking my brain at the door like I do every Sunday when watching this show.

[Jean]

 

blackmailing the Dark One. It's stupid, it makes no sense and it's out of character

Is it? Hook's always been reckless and cocky. He hung out with Cora and Pan with zero magical abilities and has no problem backstabbing them and double-dealing. Even before his pirate days he was still reckless. Stealing a royal ship/crew, burning the pegasus feathers and becoming a pirate. He's always been fueled by his emotions. He voluntarily went back to Pan and Neverland, after his brother died, just so he could live long enough to get at Rumple.

 

The dumber part of the story is why Rumple lets him live and why Rumple is letting Belle carry around the dagger, fake or otherwise. If it's not revealed that Rumple wants Hook to think he gives in to blackmail, I'm going to be disappointed. I have a feeling this blackmail business is like the cave business with the Charmings and Cinderella. He wants Hook to think that Hook has the upper hand, otherwise, it's dumb on Rumple's end. But I don't know. Even that line about Rumple keeping the hand as a reminder that he should finish the job by killing Hook is dumb. It's like what's stopping you?

[Amerilla]

You know, after pondering the sneak peek while I was off doing errands, I have to revise my opinion just a bit. I do still think it strains credulity for Hook to go to Rumpel for his hand for all the reasons we've all mentioned...

 

However...

 

The scene does efficiently show the lack of self-awareness both Rumpel and Hook still have about, well, themselves. Both men clearly think they've changed, but really, they've only shifted.

 

Rumpel is still the coward clinging to power and magic, even at the risk of losing the only person who loves him. He still can't be honest with Belle, even though she would almost certainly understand if he came clean about the dagger. He's still trying to work the angles and spin the plates to try to gain power, even though it serves him no purpose other than giving him an illusary sense of safety. He's still making all the same mistakes - just with less energy, because with Bae gone for good, there's nothing left to work towards. Which makes it all pointless.

 

And Hook? He's shifted his focus from revenge to Emma...but his methods haven't changed all that much. Just as he was willing to deal (even try to snooker) Pan, Regina, Cora, and less voluntarily, the Home Office, here he's willing to blackmail his sworn enemy to get something he for some reason thinks he needs to woo Emma. He still doesn't care much about potential fallout - for all he knows, Rumpel just saddled him with a hand that could reach out and throttle Emma against his will. He's still willing to use Belle as a way to hurt Rumpel (although, baby steps, at least this time he's not punching or shooting her), and he's yet again weirdly tied to 'Stiltskin marital relations.

 

In total, they're still doing the same basic things they did in S2, just with less potential bloodshed - so far.

 

The question is: is this a deliberate, story-driven theme, or is it another example of how the showrunners would rather have their favorite bad boys be forever stuck in variations of the same narrative loop than let them truly grow as characters?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Amerilla

[Shanna Marie]

I think Rumple is saying that at the time the hand was cut off he was a jerk, and it is stuck in the place he was in at that time, for whatever reason. Anyway, I think the lesson (other than "Don't mess with Rumple") will ultimately be something like "you can't go home" -- getting his hand cut off was part of his journey to becoming the man he is today, and he has to look forward not backwards.

That would be kind of gross and victim-blamey (which I guess is par for the course for this show), as though Hook deserves to go through life with one hand because he was a jerk when he was young and stupid. But he didn't lose the hand because he was a jerk, and being a jerk certainly doesn't warrant maiming. He lost the hand because Rumple wanted the magic bean he thought Hook was holding after Rumple killed Milah instead of taking the deal she offered to trade their lives for the bean. Hook could have been a saint and he still would have lost that hand because Rumple wanted the bean and wasn't willing to deal (in fact, Hook likely would have been killed if Rumple didn't want him to suffer). That hand in a jar is more about Rumple being evil than about Hook being a jerk. And, as I've said, the hand isn't just a reflection of Hook's frat boy pirate days. He also had that hand when he was so noble and earnest that Charming and Anna would tell him to chill. So I hope this is just Rumple messing with him in some way.

 

However, the show's clear overreliance on the true love/destined lovers trope is really annoying at this point. It works OK with an established fairy tale couple, but must it happen with every single romance

What destined lovers have there been other than Robin and Regina? My impression of all the other true love stuff was that it was something the couple created out of their relationship rather than something that was fated. In fact, Rumple didn't even see Snow and Charming coming, since he was trying to set up Charming with Abigail and seemed surprised when time-traveling Emma told him who her parents were. Yet Rumple was already manipulating Regina into being the one to cast the curse to get back at Snow at that time, apparently based on what he saw in the future, so he seemed to have entirely missed who Snow's true love would be, or possibly that she would even have true love. The true love part of the curse and the potion may have been an idea he came up with after seeing what was going on with Snow and Charming. So far, we know the True Love's Kiss has worked romantically with Snow and Charming and Philip and Aurora. It started to work with Belle and Rumple, but he stopped it (which I think cheapens it somewhat -- how can it be true love if you're willing to stop it to serve your personal agenda?). Then there were Will and Ana on Wonderland. Nothing was said about any of them being destined. They were all developed. What other magical romantic True Loves have there been?

[Rumsy4]

We know that Robert Carlyle prefers to play the villain. I'm wondering if he put his foot down in some way. They short-changed the whole Rumple/Neal relationship, and Belle is a huge dead-weight right now. in that linked interview, Carlyle doesn't even bother mentioning Belle. He only says that Rumple is selfishly motivated. Adam said the same thing at the NY Comic Con. Maybe the writers will shift him back to being shady? If Belle dies this season, that would be a big reason for him to stay Dark until the end of the Show.

[Joanh23]

My take on Rumple is that part of the reason why A&E decided to kill off Neal is that they wanted Rumple to go evil again.  Bae/Neal was the reason why  Rumple did everything from the moment he abandoned him to go through the portal.  One of my favorite things about Neal was that he wasn't afraid to call out Rumple on his s**t.  Rumple knew that once Neal was back if he didn't do the right thing that Neal would leave and never see or talk to him again, so he had to change for him.  Whereas if you take Belle - she just forgives Rumple all the time - no matter how mad she gets she always returns so at this stage I think Rumple believes he can do anything and Belle will forgive him (which I think he's right about).  I think with Neal gone Rumple has no real motivation to change.  He may love Belle, but he doesn't love her enough to change….

[retrograde]

That would be kind of gross and victim-blamey (which I guess is par for the course for this show), as though Hook deserves to go through life with one hand because he was a jerk when he was young and stupid.

Oh I'm not saying I like the idea, just that I think that's where they might be going with it.

[stealinghome]

I also hate that he knows that Rumple is in control of his dagger and pretending otherwise and yet is keeping that knowledge to himself.  He above anyone knows how dangerous Rumple can be and yet he's letting the rest of the town (Emma included) remain in the dark.  It just doesn't seem true to his character that he wouldn't at least tell Emma about it.

I don't know about this. While I agree that Hook going to Rumpel for his hand for a date is stupid and OOC (much like the writing for Hook-Rumpel in 4x03 as well), Hook is still the guy who, like 3 days ago show time, lied to Emma about the kiss curse. He withheld vital information that affected Emma and her family very directly. He's got a clear tendency to withhold information when he just doesn't feel like sharing...I suspect that part of his arc in 4A is/will be learning that to be part of a partnership, you can't do that.

[Souris]

Replying in Relationship thread.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't think it's OOC for Hook to blackmail Rumple. I'm not saying it's not stupid, or a bit contrived, but I don't remember Hook ever being afraid of Rumple, even when Rumple had his sword to Hook's throat. Hook shot Belle right in front of Rumple, went to NY to kill him, and even after all that, he doesn't seem to have a problem being in Rumple's presence. It's almost as if he believes that Rumple will never hurt him. Hook also has a history of making deals and being cagey. I think this plot is definitely what Colin meant when he said Hook's trying to change, but is still being a pirate. He already made the deal with Rumple to help Elsa, and now I think he's just trying to milk it for all it's worth.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't think it's OOC for Hook to blackmail Rumple.

I don't think it's OoC either... it's just annoying because the outcome is so predictable. It doesn't exactly reflect well on Hook's cleverness or brains.

Edited October 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I also don't think it's OOC. Hook is arrogant, and his first instinct when presented with leverage information against an "enemy" is still to try to use it to his advantage, And Rumple (I think) played him by giving in to the first round of blackmail so easily, feeding his cockiness. I'm generally on board with the storyline. I like Rumple and Hook in conflict, and I am interested to see how Hook deals with the fallout and what Emma's reaction is. 

[RadioGirl27]

When I say it' OoC it's because I think that Hook would never put his life at risk the day after Emma, the woman he loves, told him that she was afraid of loosing him and for something so mundane. In other circumstances, of course he would do it.

[Shanna Marie]

I also don't think it's OOC. Hook is arrogant, and his first instinct when presented with leverage information against an "enemy" is still to try to use it to his advantage, And Rumple (I think) played him by giving in to the first round of blackmail so easily, feeding his cockiness. I'm generally on board with the storyline. I like Rumple and Hook in conflict, and I am interested to see how Hook deals with the fallout and what Emma's reaction is.

Yeah, even when Hook was 100 percent good (as I said, Charming and Anna would have told Lt. Jones to chill), he still seemed to have impulsive tendencies. He leaps without considering the consequences, and I think only the fact that he's as clever as he is has allowed him to survive because he's smart enough to land on his feet or quickly react and compensate when finding himself in a tough spot after leaping. So the hand idea probably popped into his head, and he acted on it without thinking, secure in the sense that he always gets himself out of tough spots.

 

The part of this that's not making a lot of sense to me is why Rumple is bothering with this dagger mess. Belle didn't demand or ask to be in control of the dagger. In fact, she didn't want it and tried to make him take it. So he's putting his entire relationship on the line in order to fake an unnecessary romantic gesture. She'd have probably been happier with an engagement ring instead of the dagger, and if he'd just taken the dagger she gave him and put it in a safe place and then had given her a ring, he wouldn't have left himself open to blackmail by Hook, there'd be no risk of her finding out she was lying to him, and he'd be safely in control of himself. The only downside would be that he couldn't have used Belle as an alibi. Surely Rumple could have come up with another alibi for killing Zelena. He faked the security video, anyway. That seemed pretty definitive. He didn't even need the Belle alibi.

 

The air pretty much crackles with energy when Rumple and Hook are in a scene together, so I'm all for it, regardless of how they set it up.

[kili]

The true love part of the curse and the potion may have been an idea he came up with after seeing what was going on with Snow and Charming.

 

It wasn't, though. He'd already been speculating about using it in the curse. When Emma told him about Snow and Charming being True Love, Rumple became more convinced she was telling the truth because he'd just started thinking of using that as a solution.

 

Maybe this ties into why he wants Anna's tears. He either knows (or can easily discover because Anna talks all the time) that Anna and Elsa are True Loves. Anna did an act of True Love to save her sister and that saved not only her sister's life, but her own. So, before he knew about Snow and Charming, perhaps he started thinking about True Love when he met Anna.

[retrograde]

Filming in Steveston on Wednesday. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Rewatching that sneak peek it looks like Rumple is trying to hold back an epic eye roll. He looks like he is just so done with hook (and yet still wouldn't pass up a chance at messing with him). Rumples probably just hoping that if he complies with Killy's wishes then maybe he'll go away and leave him in peace. Kind of like a an adult dealing with a pesky kid, which i find kinda hilarious.

At least we know Killy doesn't tend to over think things which can be good and bad. If that was me in killy's shoes, my brain would probably explode because my mind would resemble the classic "poison cup" scene from the princess bride. Is rumple trying to trick me into thinking that he's tricking me when he's not tricking me at all (or is he?)? Which means i would inevitably drink the poison/get the evil hand back??

Killy is rash and leaps before he thinks. He is also good at surviving and has managed to outlive a lot of bad guys he probably thinks he could get buy if need be as someone mentioned above.

As to why rumple doesn't just off him? Unless he can completely deceive everyone that he had nothing to do with hook's murder/accident/whatever rumple would do to him, then it wouldn't be in his best interests. It would show belle and everyone that he hasn't changed and he would have to deal with emma. I've always believed that emma's magic could probably trump rumple's because light/love >dark magic. So he could end up screwing himself over if he did something to hook.

[Lieutenant]

As to why rumple doesn't just off him? Unless he can completely deceive everyone that he had nothing to do with hook's murder/accident/whatever rumple would do to him, then it wouldn't be in his best interests. It would show belle and everyone that he hasn't changed and he would have to deal with emma. I've always believed that emma's magic could probably trump rumple's because light/love >dark magic. So he could end up screwing himself over if he did something to hook.

I agree.  I have a feeling that Rump's got an image in his head of an extremely distraught Emma going all out nuclear on him.  Controlled magic or not (my guess would be that she'd be beyond inconsolable/controllable should something happen to Killian now), it'd still wipe him off the map.  Just look at what she did to DQ in the woods!  And that was completely spontaneous.  So, he knows better than to indulge in his fantasies of axing Hook, or mind wiping him, or pretty much messing with him in any overtly malicious way.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Lieutenant