S11.E08: Risk

[CleoCaesar]

I find it ridiculous that Maggie outranks Derek. I know she's the department head, though I still find that a stretch, but it just doesn't seem right ya know?

 

Could be because she looks 22 and acts 14.

[maasa]

 

I find it ridiculous that Maggie outranks Derek. I know she's the department head, though I still find that a stretch, but it just doesn't seem right ya know?

I agree but also find it dumb that Derek has no patients. He's a world famous surgeon that the President is personally hunting down. I know that Amelia is taking the patients that come in through the ER but he should have other patients. He should be doing more surgeries now that he doesn't have all the admin work shouldn't he?  I was glad to see that Derek didn't pull the "I own the hospital, I can do whatever I want" card like his wife has done in the past. I was waiting for that to come up at some point.

 

I also don't quite understand why Meredith and Richard had anything to do with that patient. If it was brain and heart conditions why were they even there?

Edited November 22, 2014 by maasa

[Muffyn]

This is why I can't invest in any of the Grey's relationships anymore, they're all destined to suffer from the same lack of communication problem. For all of them, their dramas are largely their own fault due to neither party talking to their partner and making decisions together.

This has become the most frustrating part of this show.  So many issues could be solved or at least lessened if they would speak to each other like adults.  I understand that sometimes people are reacting to things outside of the other person;s knowledge, whether from their past or a misconception of what the other person would be thinking, but they never move forward because everything is based on assumptions and miscommunication or no communication effort at all.  When the show started, the premise was interns are highly intelligent but behind in terms of social skills and emotional development because they spend so mush time focusing on their careers.  It's not exactly year one anymore.  They should have progressed.

 

The surgeons arguing in front of the girl with the massive infection and her mother was so far from appropriate.  They're lucky she didn't die.  Clearly they would have been sued for doing nothing while they fought over who goes first.

 

For being a world class surgeon, it's surprising that patients aren't being sent from other facilities to the incredible Derek Shepherd.  So maybe he's a really good neurosurgeon, but not world class or at least not world renowned.  And Meredith is a comet, not the sun.  

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

I don't think the poster meant Derek faked the whole job offer, just that the phone call he made accepting the job may have been faked. 

 

In my opinion, the phone call did seem a bit off and the timing of the conversation he was having with the woman was too fast. However I don't think it was a faked call, I think the timing issue was because they had so much to fit in to the show that the call scene was rushed. 

 

Thank you.  That is what I meant.  Unless the woman from DC was the female incarnation of the ghost of Denny Duquette, the job offer itself was definitely real.  I just thought the way Derek was talking made it seem like he was faking the phone conversation.  Also, he's tried to set up Meredith before.  He did it with the dream house plans when they broke up in season 4.  Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if he did it again.

[Chewy101]

So, Meredith is Mark, Jo is Arizona, and Alex gets to be Callie, with everyone fighting over him. How original, Shonda.

Alex, you are still the bomb. When you first got together with Jo, you let all of her friends crash at your house indefinitely so they could deal with losing Brooks, and you never closed the doors after that. Good that Jo remembers it's something to love about you- even when the insufferable Meredith is in the mix, pretending Jo doesn't exist.

 

I still hate Derek, he needs to go away. And Meredith bores me. I know Owen was hard on Callie, but his scars were showing, and he DID make peace with her. Surgeons yell at one another all the time on this show because of the pressure. And Callie actually learned some stuff and became better at this. I want her friendship with Owen to grow, I want Owen and Amelia to become friends or whatever, I love that Alex takes care of everyone now and is showing some stability in himself and feeling loved, and I like Arizona helping frozen face and seeing her as more of a human than just a bitch with a brain tumor.

 

DO NOT like the baby storyline. Babies on TV bore me, but destroying April and Jackson when every turd on this show has normal healthy babies is too much.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Chewy101

[North]

...I know Owen was hard on Callie, but his scars were showing, and he DID make peace with her. Surgeons yell at one another all the time on this show because of the pressure. And Callie actually learned some stuff and became better at this. I want her friendship with Owen to grow, I want Owen and Emily to become friends or whatever...

The thing is just because his scars were showing, does not mean he can treat people the way he treated Callie.  Sure surgeons yell at each other because of pressure, still doesn't make the behaviour right.  The only reason Callie learned anything was because of the patient, Rick, and the fact she was willing to listen.  It was nothing Owen did.

 

Also, Owen was horribly ineffective with Derek, Meredith and Maggie.  He didn't even pull them out and ask them to stop arguing in front of the patient and her mother.  Seriously, how is this guy still chief?

 

The only scenes of his I liked in this episode were the scenes with Amelia.

[Chewy101]

 

Also, Owen was horribly ineffective with Derek, Meredith and Maggie.  He didn't even pull them out and ask them to stop arguing in front of the patient and her mother.  Seriously, how is this guy still chief?

 

 

Has anyone EVER been effective with these douchebags? Never.

Owen knew the soldiers would push too hard and he tried to warn her, and Callie dismissed him and had the nerve to tell him about how soldiers are, as if she is the expert. And what Owen feared would happen, happened. So yes, he lost his cool and got angry, but he was RIGHT. And she was not, and she needed to learn how to work with soldiers. If he got mad, big deal, he made it right. And he WAS right. And douche Derek and Meredith get away with way worse on a regular basis.

[North]

Has anyone EVER been effective with these douchebags? Never.

Owen knew the soldiers would push too hard and he tried to warn her, and Callie dismissed him and had the nerve to tell him about how soldiers are, as if she is the expert. And what Owen feared would happen, happened. So yes, he lost his cool and got angry, but he was RIGHT. And she was not, and she needed to learn how to work with soldiers. If he got mad, big deal, he made it right. And he WAS right. And douche Derek and Meredith get away with way worse on a regular basis.

But like he said she didn't understand them.  He did.  It was on him to stop what happened.  He was in the room too, but he was content to shift the whole blame on to her, which is not right.  He made no effort himself to stop what happened.  He didn't attempt to teach her at the time, he just used his comment not to egg them on as an admonishment, not a teaching tool. No explanation, nothing.  It wasn't until Jordan got hurt that he said something and at that point he was being a horrible douche to Callie. 

 

He handled this poorly because he is a horrible leader.  He may have been right about the soldiers, but he wasn't at all right in his handling of the situation.

 

As the chief, it is his responsibility to keep his people in line, regardless of whether they are douches or not.  Derek, Meredith, and Maggie were being horribly inappropriate and it was on him to do something.  He didn't.

[Muffyn]

Okay, the stupidity of the way the soldiers walking was presented is getting to me.  When soldier 1 is walking, Callie stands to the side holding the waist strap.  There are shots where she is not holding the strap and he is walking.  When he decided to try to walk on the step, she let's go.  He also doesn't have the bars to hold onto.  No way they would go from bars and strap to nothing.

 

When soldier 2 walks, Owen holds the strap from behind, which would give him much more control.  Again, when he takes the step down, he isn't holding the bars and Owen let's go.  Just wouldn't happen.  I know I'm nitpicking on a show that plays loose with medicine.  Just bugging me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Bailey and her kale was funny.

I thought it was just silly because there are a million recipes for kale smoothies if you just do a simple google search. If you add anything sweet (pineapple, banana, apple, etc) it covers up the flavor of the kale. I hate veggies and I am nowhere near a hippie but I have made delicious kale spinach smoothies with pineapple, and aside from the green color you would never guess that it's good for you.

[Chewy101]

How come Arizona is not using this technology and working with Callie and Owen? She could use a leg! I get irritated how the actress doesn't even try to walk like she is wearing a prosthetic anymore. But, has it ever been explained why she did not want to try this program?

[Lesia]

April and Jackson can't have a healthy baby.  There is no more room in daycare.  That's where all babies end up once the novelty wears off.  Plus this tragedy is perfect for the believer vs. non-believer debate.

[CED9]

How come Arizona is not using this technology and working with Callie and Owen? She could use a leg! I get irritated how the actress doesn't even try to walk like she is wearing a prosthetic anymore. But, has it ever been explained why she did not want to try this program?

It was Callie and Arizona's entire 10B fight. Arizona felt that Callie just saw her as another work project to fix as opposed to her wife.

[BC Mama]

How come Arizona is not using this technology and working with Callie and Owen? She could use a leg! I get irritated how the actress doesn't even try to walk like she is wearing a prosthetic anymore. But, has it ever been explained why she did not want to try this program?

 

From the way Arizona now walks, I just assumed her leg grew back... you know, with some genome technology that Bailey invented between injecting children with HIV while she was moonlighting as a geneticist!

[craziness]

I assume Arizona is not in Callie's trial, because she doesn't want Callie to try and "fix" her. That was her whole big argument before. My question is, why are the veterans in the program so happy?/content? (Not sure what word I'm looking for here) to sit and go around in wheel chairs all the time? Why aren't they up on crutches? They could use crutches and the new leg to keep from falling.

I actually started watching Grey's for the Arizona becomes an amputee storyline, as I had a friend who was an above knee amputee and watched to see if they would do the story right. My opinion, not so much. Jcap should occasionally limp as if the leg was bothering her, and not run to emergencies. Didn't they say at one point that she had observed amputees to see how they moved, or did I imagine that?

[Chewy101]

And I hate how Arizona will bend her legs effortlessly to pick something up off the floor. We have seen the leg she is wearing- it does not do that. I must have blocked out the entire Arizona/Callie "Don't fix me" thing because they have so many fights and they bug me. Considering AZ was so angry for so long about losing her leg, I would have thought she'd get over herself and WANT to be fixed. As in, it's the least Callie could do for choosing to cut off the leg in the first place. Since when did Arizona decide she was better off one-legged? She finally stopped blaming Callie, which is good, but not wanting to be fixed? Stupid show.

 

[Black Knight]

Considering AZ was so angry for so long about losing her leg, I would have thought she'd get over herself and WANT to be fixed. As in, it's the least Callie could do for choosing to cut off the leg in the first place. Since when did Arizona decide she was better off one-legged? She finally stopped blaming Callie, which is good, but not wanting to be fixed? Stupid show.

First, I'm not sure that Callie would have been allowed to include her wife (now ex-, but at the time she started this, they were still married) in her study. I would think that wouldn't be allowed due to the conflict of interest. They never showed a conversation between Callie and Arizona discussing whether AZ would or wouldn't take part in the study herself. Even if it would have been allowed, I don't think Callie would have wanted to do it, because the work Callie is doing is about getting her new prosthetic perfect. Once that's done, then give it to her wife. AZ's condition is not life-threatening and she's doing just fine with the prosthetic she already has, so it's no big deal for her to wait.

 

Second, there is no such thing as "being fixed" when it comes to Arizona. The only way she could "be fixed" would be if her leg could somehow be regrown. That isn't happening; all we're talking about here are better prosthetics. And better prosthetics are nothing to be sneezed at, but it's not "being fixed." Arizona has already learned how to have a perfectly fine life with her current prosthetics - they did an entire episode on that last season, on how she's adjusted and how she knows how to take care of problems as they come up (her best prosthetic breaks? fine, she has a spare. Blisters? Fine, she can bandage them). No matter how great her prosthetics are, she's never going to be problem-free. She can certainly improve her quality of life even more, but this is where the point about Callie's work still being in a pilot stage comes into play. Like Arizona, I have a disability for which I use technology, and that technology has made lots of improvements over the years and continues to do so. And I do look forward to the next significant improvement. But would I, at this point, participate in a study or pilot program of some kind? No. That's a lot of time and energy and commitment that would get in the way of my regular life, which happens to be just fine. I'm not in a rush. It's not that important. I can wait for them to get the kinks worked out first. The issues with Arizona's disability, like the issues with mine, will never fully vanish no matter how good the technology gets.

 

But you know what? That happens to most everyone in another way - getting old. As we age, our bodies start breaking down, and there's only so much we can do about it. But that's not called a handicap, it's just called aging, and it's just something people learn to live with. Maybe you can't walk as far as you did anymore, maybe you need to spend more time stretching and recovering after a workout, maybe you don't have the strength you once did. You adjust, you learn to make decisions that take those things into account, and hopefully not have a poor quality of life. Arizona's quality of life - at least as far as her leg goes, since her personal life is in shambles - is fine: She's able to work full-time and operate, she doesn't have body image issues anymore, she's mobile. Note that in the beginning, when she was so angry about her leg being amputated, she believed she wouldn't be able ever to pick up her daughter or operate again, but she's gotten all of that back. For all intents and purposes, if you want to say "fixed" in a practical sense (since her leg isn't going to grow back), she is already "fixed." Further improvements on prosthetics is just fine-tuning. (I'll skip the lecture on how many people with handicaps and disabilities would find the whole concept of "fixed" extremely insulting, though April touched on that last season when she and Jackson were arguing about what they would do with a deaf child.)

Edited November 24, 2014 by Black Knight

[kingshearte]

This has become the most frustrating part of this show.  So many issues could be solved or at least lessened if they would speak to each other like adults.  I understand that sometimes people are reacting to things outside of the other person;s knowledge, whether from their past or a misconception of what the other person would be thinking, but they never move forward because everything is based on assumptions and miscommunication or no communication effort at all.  When the show started, the premise was interns are highly intelligent but behind in terms of social skills and emotional development because they spend so mush time focusing on their careers.  It's not exactly year one anymore.  They should have progressed.

Agreed. Frankly, it's just lazy writing. I understand that in order to make a compelling story, there has to be conflict, and I know that the easiest way to create conflict in a relationship is to have everyone working from incomplete information, but do we have to default to that all the time? There are other ways of creating conflict that are just as compelling and a good deal less infuriating.

[cycworker]

I don't know why anyone would want Owen to be with anyone. He ended a relationship through email. He was awful to Yang. He used Teddy to score points with Yang, and basically ended up cheating with her emotionally. He physically cheated on Yang for revenge. He cheated on Dr. Mighty Duck with Yang.

Seriously, what are the redeeming qualities of this guy? Especially relationship wise. (Minus the homophobic stuff I've had to read through being an Arizona fan that Owen is better for Callie, because, penis.)

It is really sad how much they've mangled this character. When he started I really liked him. He was a nice balance of bad ass and vulnerability. But everything you say is true. The only thing I can say is that if Owen has to be on my screen at all, and he has to be paired with someone romantically, I'd sure has heck rather see him with Amelia than Callie. 

 

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but as I've somewhat lamented to myself, for me, I'm pretty sure it's just because I love Kevin McKidd. I think I liked Owen for Owen's sake in the beginning, but they really have made him into an ass. All your points are 100% valid. But he's still Kevin McKidd, and for that, I can't help but still love him.

And there's that, too. The depth of my love for McKidd is equal or greater to my disgust at Owen. 

[CED9]

It is really sad how much they've mangled this character. When he started I really liked him. He was a nice balance of bad ass and vulnerability. But everything you say is true. The only thing I can say is that if Owen has to be on my screen at all, and he has to be paired with someone romantically, I'd sure has heck rather see him with Amelia than Callie.

It almost feels like that's why they had him introduce Callie to veterans. "Oh, he's a complete asshat, but remember why you liked him in the beginning? Because he was in the army. Being in the army is so inherently good that he can be forgiven for his total douchery otherwise." Ugh.

No disrespect intended towards those who are actually in the military.

[dr pepper]

So, is Shonda personally daring Ben and Jerry? Because you know they won't back down from a challenge.

[Coxfires]

Why couldn't Japril's baby be just fine? It's not just Seattle Mercy Death, it's Seattly Mercy Crap Life. I get it is DRAMA for Japril, but that feels like recycled storyline.

 

Pierce still is bland for me, trying to recreate the Fab 5 didn't work for me, but maybe it will improve.

 

Could we get Alex for more than three lines in the next episodes? As usual he had the writers attention for two episodes and then is pushed aside. what a waste of Justin Chambers, really.

 

As much as Derek annoys me to no end, Meredith just pisses me off. Yes, Derek wanted the job and mopes about it, but she didn't just ask him to leave her, she asked him to also leave his kids behind. It is really unfair of her to say that if he wants the job so much he just has to go because SHE is OK with it. There is a whole family to consider, and acting like that she shows no empathy for him, but also mostly for Zola and Bailey. 

[taanja]

 

My problem with Meredith's issues over Derek viewing his career as more important is that she should have expected it from when they got married... She chose to marry a world-class, in-demand neurosurgeon while she was still a resident building her career. She should have been prepared for the fact that he would get all sorts of offers and that they may end up moving away from Seattle.

 

 

I also think that when Derek was married to Addison she was as accomplished in her field as she was in his and she was very confident in how awesome she was, she didn't need Derek to reassure her about how important her career was. So for him to now be married to someone who is building her career and trying to prove herself in the world of surgery, I don't think he fully prepared himself for what marrying someone at a different stage in her career would mean for him and his work.

 

 

Why should Meredith  "have known" that Derek would think his career is more important but Derek shouldn't "have known" that being married to someone who was still building their career would be difficult? I don't get the double standard?

 

Besides hindsight is 20/20 they say. When all this was happening (when they were making these life decisions) to them they wouldn't know the outcome. Just like when we make decisions in life we can't fore-see the future.

 

Anyway. Team Meredith here! and for the most part I can pretend the children don't exist (kind of like Meredith and Derek!) so I don't care who ends up getting custody. Though I must admit I would like to see those two crazy kids reconcile before the end of the show. <<<the two crazy kids being Meredith and Derek --yo!

Edited November 25, 2014 by taanja

[PrincessTT]

Why should Meredith  "have known" that Derek would think his career is more important but Derek shouldn't "have known" that being married to someone who was still building their career would be difficult? I don't get the double standard?

 

Besides hindsight is 20/20 they say. When all this was happening (when they were making these life decisions) to them they wouldn't know the outcome. Just like when we make decisions in life we can't fore-see the future.

 

Anyway. Team Meredith here! and for the most part I can pretend the children don't exist (kind of like Meredith and Derek!) so I don't care who ends up getting custody. Though I must admit I would like to see those two crazy kids reconcile before the end of the show. <<<the two crazy kids being Meredith and Derek --yo!

 

Re-read my 2 posts on the subject below, particularly the bolded parts, and you'll see there is no double standard. I already said, more than once, that Derek didn't consider what it would mean and that they (meaning both of them) should communicate better. 

 

Regarding hindsight, they may not have known what the outcome would be but on some subjects you can have a pretty good idea of what will probably happen and you can discuss how you'll handle it if those situations arise. Not knowing for sure what the outcome is going to be is no reason to go into a situation completely blind, at least prepare yourself for potential outcomes.

 

My problem with Meredith's issues over Derek viewing his career as more important is that she should have expected it from when they got married... She chose to marry a world-class, in-demand neurosurgeon while she was still a resident building her career. She should have been prepared for the fact that he would get all sorts of offers and that they may end up moving away from Seattle. 

 

In the Season 10 finale she compared herself to Thatcher, but by marrying Derek when he was who he was while she was who she was, she chose to be the Thatcher to his Ellis with respect to their careers. 

 

I also think that when Derek was married to Addison she was as accomplished in her field as she was in his and she was very confident in how awesome she was, she didn't need Derek to reassure her about how important her career was. So for him to now be married to someone who is building her career and trying to prove herself in the world of surgery, I don't think he fully prepared himself for what marrying someone at a different stage in her career would mean for him and his work. 

 

All in all, much like every other couple on the show, they should have communicated more about the practicalities of their future and what it would mean for their careers when they got married.

 

 

That's what I was saying... They were in the same place career wise so Derek hadn't had to deal with tip-toeing around his wife's career before, and he didn't necessarily consider how different it would be being married to someone who wasn't as far in their career before he married Meredith.

 

In the same way, Meredith didn't consider what being married to an in-demand world-class neurosurgeon would potentially mean for her career and her future.

 

Obviously having kids now complicates matters, but these are the sort of issues that they should have considered and discussed before getting married and having kids. 

 

This is why I can't invest in any of the Grey's relationships anymore, they're all destined to suffer from the same lack of communication problem. For all of them, their dramas are largely their own fault due to neither party talking to their partner and making decisions together.

Edited November 25, 2014 by PrincessTT

[taanja]

 

they should have communicated more about the practicalities of their future and what it would mean for their careers when they got married.

 

That's easy. it's Soap Opera 101. Nobody communicates. Everyone lies. Hijinks ensue.

 

It is the basis this entire show is built on. Starting with Derek not telling Meredith he was married when they began their affair and Meredith not telling anyone she was the daughter of the famous Ellis grey ---who had Alzheimer's no less!

 

[PrincessTT]

That's easy. it's Soap Opera 101. Nobody communicates. Everyone lies. Hijinks ensue.

 

It is the basis this entire show is built on. Starting with Derek not telling Meredith he was married when they began their affair and Meredith not telling anyone she was the daughter of the famous Ellis grey ---who had Alzheimer's no less!

 

Just because everyone does it it doesn't make it right or enjoyable. 

 

It's just laziness on the behalf of the writers. It's possible to write a well-balanced couple who communicate well and give them natural conflict. Shonda and her team just choose not to do so, that's her prerogative of course but the result of it is that viewers such as myself stop caring about any of the couples on her show as they're all badly written and destined to have manufactured drama thrown at them. 

 

And I'll wait for your apology on accusing me of having double standards ;-)

[taanja]

 

It's just laziness on the behalf of the writers

 

Perhaps.

I see people say this all the time but until that someone (not necessarily you --I am not picking on you in particular) actually is a professional writer ---writing for network television for example --- it's just a complaint that has no merit. In my humble opinion.  It's easy to say ---Oh that's lazy writing ---much harder to actually write for a living -- day in day out ---over many years. Just saying.

 

[oceanblue]

OK, I'm getting a bit of an inferiority complex.  Do all of you communicate completely and clearly at all times, with precise understanding of your own deepest issues?  Because I find that most arguments result from poor communication, including not identifying what the real problem is.  

 

 

[taanja]

 

OK, I'm getting a bit of an inferiority complex.  Do all of you communicate completely and clearly at all times, with precise understanding of your own deepest issues?  Because I find that most arguments result from poor communication, including not identifying what the real problem is.

 

That would be a resounding NO! So I guess we are all trapped in Soap Opera 101!!!! Oh the horror!

 

[PrincessTT]

OK, I'm getting a bit of an inferiority complex.  Do all of you communicate completely and clearly at all times, with precise understanding of your own deepest issues?  Because I find that most arguments result from poor communication, including not identifying what the real problem is.  

 

Not 100% at all times, but over the key issues we have had very clear communication. We discussed very early on how we both felt about marriage and about having kids and whether or not we would be willing to move for eachothers careers. When issues arise in the relationship we talk them through with eachother rather than our friends, and we let eachother finish sentences rather than interrupting and jumping to conclusions. 

 

We're not perfect but we know how to have a conversation and work through an issue, something that none of Shonda's couples seem to be capable of. 

[PrincessTT]

Perhaps.

I see people say this all the time but until that someone (not necessarily you --I am not picking on you in particular) actually is a professional writer ---writing for network television for example --- it's just a complaint that has no merit. In my humble opinion.  It's easy to say ---Oh that's lazy writing ---much harder to actually write for a living -- day in day out ---over many years. Just saying.

 

You don't have to be a writer to know whether or not you enjoy what writers are putting out.

 

With regards to the Grey's writers and how they write for the couples on the show, I don't enjoy it and I find it to lazily done. As a viewer of the show, my opinion on the writing does have merit just as every other viewer's opinion has merit. 

 

I'm sure writing for a living is a very hard job, but the writers don't write for eachother. They write for the viewers, and therefore the viewer's complaints (and compliments) hold more merit than anyone elses because if the viewers don't like the writing then they'll end up switching the show off. 

[BizBuzz]

Not 100% at all times, but over the key issues we have had very clear communication. We discussed very early on how we both felt about marriage and about having kids and whether or not we would be willing to move for eachothers careers. When issues arise in the relationship we talk them through with eachother rather than our friends, and we let eachother finish sentences rather than interrupting and jumping to conclusions. 

 

We're not perfect but we know how to have a conversation and work through an issue, something that none of Shonda's couples seem to be capable of. 

 

Well, this is probably the reason why I have two failed marriages, because we didn't do this.  At all.  ::giggle::

 

OK, I'm getting a bit of an inferiority complex.  Do all of you communicate completely and clearly at all times, with precise understanding of your own deepest issues?  Because I find that most arguments result from poor communication, including not identifying what the real problem is.  

 

See my comment above.  I am thinking you are not alone.

[oceanblue]

I watched the fight, which was on the surface about logistics of where they live, and thinking about all the things we've learned about them.  They aren't fighting about who goes with who or not.  It's easy to say in theory that these are the circumstances in which one person would move for the other.  But in reality they are arguing about how it feels to put your career second to your spouse, and how it feels to have your spouse say she won't follow you. 

 

I watched it and it made me more conscious to try NOT to have that kind of fight - to stop and try to get to the bottom of the issue of each person.  I find this more interesting to watch than stuff blowing up.

[PrincessTT]

I watched the fight, which was on the surface about logistics of where they live, and thinking about all the things we've learned about them.  They aren't fighting about who goes with who or not.  It's easy to say in theory that these are the circumstances in which one person would move for the other.  But in reality they are arguing about how it feels to put your career second to your spouse, and how it feels to have your spouse say she won't follow you. 

 

I watched it and it made me more conscious to try NOT to have that kind of fight - to stop and try to get to the bottom of the issue of each person.  I find this more interesting to watch than stuff blowing up.

 

Which brings me back round to my initial point about their relationship... Before they got married Meredith should quite easily have realised that due to the differences in their places in their careers, Derek's would be deemed as more important and she would be expected to put hers second. And Derek should have quite easily realised that Meredith who had built a family for herself in Seattle and who was/is trying to build a career wouldn't want to drop everything and follow him. 

 

The fact that they married without speaking about what the different stages in their careers would mean for the future and potential opportunities, was the start of the problem that they're now going through.

Edited November 25, 2014 by PrincessTT

[oceanblue]

We only see scenes from their fictional life, so we don't know for sure they didn't talk about it. My point is that you can talk about anything in theory, but when it's reality you then have feelings that change the dynamic.  Several years ago Derek was willing to move for Meredith's fellowship, but she changed her mind after the plane crash.  So in theory she'd have been willing to move, but the plane crash brought up feelings they could not anticipate.  He was willing to put his career on the back burner, but the President call, which I don't think anyone could anticipate. 

[PrincessTT]

I get what you're saying about feelings changing things but at least if you have a theoretical plan then it gives you something to work from with regards to discussing how to move forward, from listening to their argument it doesn't sound like they have that... I think my real issue though is that I despise both of them so much and I wish they would have both moved away (or actually died in any of their near-death experiences) at any of the chances they have had to do so.

[oceanblue]

I agree, having a theoretical plan would help.  But they actually executed this imperfectly though pleasantly with the Boston move, and were set to execute it again this time with the DC move.  Both times they were set up to manage the situation logically, perhaps according to some prior agreement.  And in both situations, feelings intervened and the whole thing blew up.  

[PrincessTT]

You can't really compare the plane crash with Cristina telling Meredith that she's the sun in terms of unexpected interventions. 

 

Boston was less about one person's career being more important than the other and one person following the other. Although it started out as Meredith's fellowship it was also going to be a great opportunity for Derek with his new job too. So that was a move as a family where no-one would be feeling inferior to the other in terms of career. And the plane crash fall-out was a perfectly valid reason for it to all blow up. 

 

DC was a totally different type of move, it was Derek's opportunity and one of the things that Meredith resented (and compared herself to Thatcher over) was that a job had been found for her somewhere. Even though Meredith felt that way she didn't say anything or communicate with Derek about her reservations, she waited and then exploded at the last minute. Suddenly believing that she is the sun was not a valid reason for it to all blow up IMO. 

[oceanblue]

The sun remark was stupid, and if I believed that Meredith said no to the move because she literally believed she was the sun I would have to turn the TV off on this show forever. 

[PrincessTT]

She said no because of all the things she brought up in the argument, the sun comment was just the prompt she needed to voice the objections she was already feeling. However, she should have spoken to her husband about her feelings throughout the process instead of waiting for someone else to give her a push and then refusing to go at the last minute. 

 

And while I don't think Meredith literally believes that she is the sun, the amount of times Cristina's comment has been re-shown so far this season makes me think that Shonda believes it or at least wants the viewers to believe it.

[oceanblue]

I agree on the last part.  And I agree both of them SHOULD have communicated much better.  All I'm saying is that in real life not everyone communicates perfectly.  I'm enjoying a character-based story more than I have the plot=driven stories.

[BizBuzz]

Ok, I have sat on this thread all day ... asked another Mod to help ascertain if this thread was getting heated ... I even came in and tried to deflect the conversation by trying to be light-hearted.

 

However, this thread seems to have gotten a little redundant now.  Both sides have stated their sides, and it's going in circles now, please, let's move on, ok?

[PrincessTT]

I enjoy character-based stories, when their based around characters that I can stand watching. 

When it comes to Meredith and Derek, I want them to go and talk through their issues (off my screen) and decide to move away together. 

 

Failing that, I just want Derek to move to DC with the kids and Meredith to throw herself into her work and fade into the background for a bit. 

 

And I agree that not everyone communicates properly, but on Shonda shows none of the couples communicate properly - which is why I said previously that it's lazy writing. The Alex/Jo scene in this episode was one of the only instances of a couple communicating properly that I can think of off the top of my head, and even then it was preceded by Jo pouting about the issue at the end of the previous episode. I suppose Bailey and Ben communicate pretty well. 

 

Edit - Post above mine came while I was typing. I'm ready to move on from the issue though. 

Edited November 25, 2014 by PrincessTT

[CED9]

You can't really compare the plane crash with Cristina telling Meredith that she's the sun in terms of unexpected interventions.

Boston was less about one person's career being more important than the other and one person following the other. Although it started out as Meredith's fellowship it was also going to be a great opportunity for Derek with his new job too. So that was a move as a family where no-one would be feeling inferior to the other in terms of career. And the plane crash fall-out was a perfectly valid reason for it to all blow up.

DC was a totally different type of move, it was Derek's opportunity and one of the things that Meredith resented (and compared herself to Thatcher over) was that a job had been found for her somewhere. Even though Meredith felt that way she didn't say anything or communicate with Derek about her reservations, she waited and then exploded at the last minute. Suddenly believing that she is the sun was not a valid reason for it to all blow up IMO.

I basically look at Meredith and Derek's fight as Callie and Arizona's Africa debacle done correctly by the writers.

[DrLar]

I was rather surprised that Amelia and not Derek is the one that's going to find a miracle cure for Herman, yeah it had to be her after Derek's leaving to DC, if she does save her maybe earn some respect from the hospital staff?

 

I say they do save April's baby, but his condition would be critical due to his disease, it could last a few months or so.

[maddie965]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that in RL, most doctors are perfectly content in being the best doctor they can be for their patients. They may want to be head of departments, or get some academic title, but they don't want to do groudbreaking work that will change forever the face of Medicine. I have two doctors in my family, and none of them want that. But, in Grey's world, every single doctor at a hospital not only has to be the better in their field, they have to do the most astounding research work ever. That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

But OK, let's assume both Meredith and Derek are incredibly ambitious and want to become Medicine legends. That's completely alright with me - as long as you don't have kids!!!! I mean, if one of them had that kind of ambition and the other one was willing to stay behind, he could be the primary caretaker, and that might work. But since both want "to be the sun", they should have NEVER decided to have kids. Period. Instead, the fought for it, adopted one child, had another, and now they don't even remember the kids exist. People like that could never be allowed to be parents. But, since they decided to have them, they have a responsibility towards them. A huge responsibility. I don't see either Derek or Meredith acknowledging that, and it sucks. Derek at least has mentioned them in the discussions. Meredith, however, is the worst mother ever.

 

On a practical note, is Patrick leaving the show? I don't follow spoilers, so I wouldn't know.

Edited November 29, 2014 by maddie965

[CED9]

I was rather surprised that Amelia and not Derek is the one that's going to find a miracle cure for Herman, yeah it had to be her after Derek's leaving to DC, if she does save her maybe earn some respect from the hospital staff?

I say they do save April's baby, but his condition would be critical due to his disease, it could last a few months or so.

There's been fan speculation/head canon for years that Arizona and Amelia age wise would've been at Hopkins together, and they did seem to interact like they knew each other comfortably. (Called each other by first name instead of Shepherd/Robbins) so, perhaps if they go with that, Arizona may trust Amelia more.

Just speculation as I said.

[St. Claire]

Two random thoughts/observations- I wonder if Caterina Scorsone is commiserating with Sarah Drew about playing a horrid dead baby storyline whilst pregnant? Amelia carried her baby to term on Private Practice even with the knowledge that said baby didn't have a developed brain and would die within hours. (I refuse to say "the baby had no brain" even though that's what they kept saying since a baby with no brain at all could not have any organ function and part of the storyline included Amelia's insistence that she was going to donate the organs immediately, making the dead baby story into some noble thing.) Secondly, I wonder if Chandra Wilson is on some sort of health kick herself, leading the writers to make Bailey lose weigh and get into shape? If so, it's a lame storyline; all they needed to do is to let the healthy transformation happen with a few throwaway lines or no fanfare at all. Yep, people can change their eating and exercise habits without making a production out of it!

[CED9]

Secondly, I wonder if Chandra Wilson is on some sort of health kick herself, leading the writers to make Bailey lose weigh and get into shape? If so, it's a lame storyline; all they needed to do is to let the healthy transformation happen with a few throwaway lines or no fanfare at all. Yep, people can change their eating and exercise habits without making a production out of it!

I've seen speculation from people who are familiar with it that it could be a symptom of Bailey's OCD rearing its ugly head again. Though, I hope not because that SL doesn't need to be revisited, really.

[CleoCaesar]

Though, I hope not because that SL doesn't need to be revisited, really.

 

Preach it. Bailey's health kick is amusing right now and it should stay amusing, not be the catalyst for her two hundredth breakdown. It's the most I've tolerated her in years. Like when Bailey was attempting to jog and happened to meet Maggie in the park, she gave perky, happy, fit Maggie a look that can only be described as mild disgust. Heh.