How To Speculate w/o Spoilers: Hiding the Ball

[Milaxx]

I haven't check my cable guide to see.  I was just commenting that there was a similar giveaway on TD. I did watch an old interview on YouTube yesterday with the make cast in which Billy Brown said he said he's #9 on the call sheet & only works 2 days a week. I'm fairly certain that Charles Weber is higher on the call list so if we go back to the rumor that the cast was upset when they found out who the body was I getting more and certain Frank is under the sheet.

[secnarf]

Mine only shows about 5 characters, and for some reason Billy Brown is listed second. But, the listings are identical to last week's listing, even though Charlie Weber isn't listed in either. For me, at least, I don't think it gives anything away. 

[Milaxx]

I was referring to the call sheet. A call sheet isn't shown on tv. It's the notice the actors receive that tells them when they are filming, what time they are expected on set, etc...

[Happytobehere]

5 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I haven't check my cable guide to see.  I was just commenting that there was a similar giveaway on TD. I did watch an old interview on YouTube yesterday with the make cast in which Billy Brown said he said he's #9 on the call sheet & only works 2 days a week. I'm fairly certain that Charles Weber is higher on the call list so if we go back to the rumor that the cast was upset when they found out who the body was I getting more and certain Frank is under the sheet.

I think Frank is dead too, a fact which pains me, but another poster previously noted hat even with all the twists and turns, the obvious answer is often the correct answer with this show.  Since the season began, knowing all that is going on, Frank has seemed to most likely person to be under the sheet and the episode before the big reveal has Frank threatening to kill himself in Annalise's home. So hate it or not, I'm prepared for the body to be Frank and to be stuck with the borefest that is Nate for the foreseeable future.

[Dancingjaneway]

I have to say finding out Wes wasn't under the sheet made the "Whose under the sheet" mystery about 80% less interesting to me. 

[Tiger]

7 hours ago, sking24450 said:

So...who is it? Can it be posted in the spoiler thread?  My DirectTV guide isn't spoiling me.  I don't know if they caught wind or if ABC has already changed it.

Charlie Weber.

The episode description is "Guests include comedian Billy Crystal, actor Charlie Weber, and rapper French Montana."  

[secnarf]

2 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

  Hide contents

Charlie Weber.

The episode description is "Guests include comedian Billy Crystal, actor Charlie Weber, and rapper French Montana."  

Wow. My TV listing has just the two names, with the one from HTGAWM not included.

[sking24450]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Charlie Weber.

The episode description is "Guests include comedian Billy Crystal, actor Charlie Weber, and rapper French Montana."  

Thanks. Like @secnarf I only had two names.  So I'm not sure if ABC caught on but that wasn't there for me.

[Tiger]

10 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Like when we used to know who died on The Walking Dead by checking the special guest star on Talking Dead. Hopefully TPTB at ABC figure that out and correct it.

My cableguide spoiled Glenn's death with the write for some daytime talk show literally stating something like 'Actor Steven Yeun stops by to talk about his character Glenn's shocking death'. 

[Milaxx]

Mine shows Billy Crystal and another guest, but no one from HTGAWM. I wonder if someone caught that and changed it. I have to say though, if it is who I suspect, the show did an excellent job of casting doubt. I've waivered in who I thought it might be several times.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Milaxx

[Dancingjaneway]

I figured that's who it would be. 

[possibilities]

Is it too soon to speculate about what the next series driver will be after who's under the sheet is revealed?

[Milaxx]

I don't think so. My guess is the Nate/Atwood thing ramps up a notch.

[J.D.]

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I don't think so. My guess is the Nate/Atwood thing ramps up a notch.

Maybe they'll both be "under the sheets."  (Sorry, I couldn't resist).

[l star]

My guess is Nate's under the sheet and Atwood goes after Annalise for killing him. She has to get off clean, because her law license status is still so fragile so stakes. Plus Wes behind the scenes. 

[secnarf]

On 2016-11-13 at 7:29 PM, Tiger said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Charlie Weber.

The episode description is "Guests include comedian Billy Crystal, actor Charlie Weber, and rapper French Montana."  

My TV Guide now says:

Billy Crystal; the "How to Get Away With Murder" character who is #UnderTheSheet. Also: Jeezy performs with French Montana.

It made me laugh.

[Milaxx]

I'm also wondering what the fall out from Connor sleeping with Thomas will be. If I was Thomas I'd be pissed to be thrown in the middle of these two. I hope Oliver doesn't do something stupid to retaliate like sleep with Simon.

12 minutes ago, secnarf said:

My TV Guide now says:

Billy Crystal; the "How to Get Away With Murder" character who is #UnderTheSheet. Also: Jeezy performs with French Montana.

My Tv guide now says Billy Crystal. Jeezy and French Montana performs.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Milaxx

[Tiger]

Just got home, and it looks like my cable provider amended Jimmy Kimmel's description for tonight to remove the specific name. They literally left the word "actor" and the "," after the name and just took the name out.

[pennben]

Welp, I couldn't help but to look under the hidden quotes about the Kimmel appearance a few days ago, so I was doubly surprised tonight.

This is just me talking here, so feel free to disregard.  I come to the non-spoiler/speculation thread because I'm addicted to spoilers even though I don't really want them, so I do my best to stay out of that thread.  And although even looking under the hidden contents this time didn't spoil anything, perhaps in the future when there are thought to be spoilers, maybe move the discussion to the spoiler thread?  Again, that's just me as I can't resist clicking to hidden info, even though I know I shouldn't.  That's obviously my problem, no one else's, so again, please feel free to disagree.

Edited November 18, 2016 by pennben

[possibilities]

So the next mystery is who killed Wes. I guess that should have been obvious as the next cliffhanger, but I somehow bought that it was just going to be death in the fire, and that we'd see how the fire got started, so it would be resolved. Which is crazy of me, I know!

Teeny Submysteries:

1. who's the daddy (of Laurel's fetus), though I don't really care.

2. what exactly did Wes say in his testimony? I care somewhat, because it could make a big difference in the fallout.

3. what will Michaela do about her mother, and about Asher having brought her to town? I care a little, because the actors are great.

4. does Bonnie playing both sides of the fence with Frank and Annalise blow up in her face, and A and F get together and kill Bonnie for season 3? Or something. Bonnie blows my mind.

5. will Oliver figure out what Connor has been hiding, and how will he react?

Of all of these, the last two are the ones I find most interesting.

Oliver being horrified and turning against the whole lot of them would be sensible, but it would be a much more cut and dried story, and this show likes twisted and messy more than obvious and clean. Someone being sensible and morally outraged and acting on it would completely change the show, and is not nearly convoluted or shocking enough. So I predict that he will be horrified, but that his reaction will be more complex than a sane and simple: this disgusts me and I flee or turn you all in.

Edited November 18, 2016 by possibilities

[Lady Calypso]

So, I definitely have my theories on who killed Wes and what might have gone on that night. Even if the show probably hasn't decided much of that yet, I want to speculate.

1. I still stand by my gut that Connor could be the murderer. I'd rather if he wasn't, but I think it's entirely possible. If we assume that Connor's placement in the flashbacks are correct, there as a time lapse between him leaving Thomas' and him arriving at the hospital. We also don't know how he found out about the fire. Presumably, he watched the news to find out, but it's not confirmed. He seemed in shock after Bonnie told them, but it could have been shock on who died. I do think he somehow ended up at Annalise's house, though. 

That being said, I'm pretty accepting to anyone being Wes' killer, including Wes himself. Actually, the only people I feel pretty sure about not being the killers are Annalise, Laurel, and Michaela. I'm pretty sure Michaela didn't leave her apartment with her mother there, Annalise seemed too upset over Wes' death, and I think Laurel came in to find Wes dead, as she arrived not long before the explosion and fire. I don't think it was Oliver or Asher either.

2. I think Frank might have gone to the house to set the fire/explosion, but I also don't think he killed Wes. He might have, but he's more likely to have set the place on fire than actually killing Wes. Plus, I think he was shocked to find out Laurel was in the house (I'll have to rewatch). 

3. I'm not sure if they'll go through with Laurel having the baby, but if she does, I think she'll give the baby to Annalise. 

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

3. I'm not sure if they'll go through with Laurel having the baby, but if she does, I think she'll give the baby to Annalise. 

I would hope Laurel is smart enough to keep that child as far away from Annalise as possible. If she does anything as stupid as allowing Annalise to adopt her+Wes's child (or her+Frank's child, for that matter), that would make me give up on this show altogether.

I would add that I don't think it's likely Nate killed Wes, because I don't think he had anything to do with the fire and he doesn't seem like the murderous type. Though, I could maybe see a scenario where Nate *really* loses his temper and kills Wes or accidentally kills Wes, dumps him at Annalise's house in order to make her look bad, and then the fire happened as a separate/unrelated event.

[Milaxx]

Pretty much agree with @Lady Calypso. There are reasons to suspect pretty much anyone, including Connor. I think Connor is still low on the list of suspects, but I could definitely see the show making a convincing argument for him being the killer.

I'm literally just throwing out all the possibilities I can think of. My other suspects are:

• The Mahoneys'. Yes this is the obvious choice, but I recall mama Mahoney not being that fond of Rose to begin with. If she discovered that Wes is Christophe,  I could easily see her deciding to get rid of him and setting the housefire to cover it up.
• Laurel herself. She was drunk and she & Wes had been fighting. What if they both arrived at AK's had a fight and something happened where Wes fell & hit his head. I'd only buy this option if Frank is the one who set the fire by rigging something in the house to explode. At the moment Wes was killed/knocked out, the fire goes off and Laurel no only can't save him, she passes out from smoke inhalation.
• Atwood kills Wes. She goes to the house looking for Nate. Is doing some snooping trying to get info on AK, Wes catches her and she kills him in a fight. Frank is the one who sets the fire in this instance as well.
• Rebecca's brother kills Wes. Frank still sets the fire.

I most of these scenarios I see Frank's "falling on his sword" being that he was the one who set the house on fire with the intent of making it look like and accident. This would have been Bonnie's way of making sure there was no evidence that Atwood could get that would tie her to Rebecca's murder.

I could imagine a lot of things happening on this show, but no way could I see any scenario where Laurel gives AK her baby to raise. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

17 hours ago, possibilities said:

. what exactly did Wes say in his testimony? I care somewhat, because it could make a big difference in the fallout.

Wes didn't say anything. He never testified because he didn't get his immunity deal. The officers left to go make the revisions he wanted and he snuck out.

17 hours ago, possibilities said:

5. will Oliver figure out what Connor has been hiding, and how will he react?

Of all of these, the last two are the ones I find most interesting.

Oliver being horrified and turning against the whole lot of them would be sensible, but it would be a much more cut and dried story, and this show likes twisted and messy more than obvious and clean. Someone being sensible and morally outraged and acting on it would completely change the show, and is not nearly convoluted or shocking enough. So I predict that he will be horrified, but that his reaction will be more complex than a sane and simple: this disgusts me and I flee or turn you all in.

This, but I think I'll answer it in the Coliver thread.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder if Nate found Wes already dead at Annalise's house and he set the fire to go off on a timer, not realizing that Laurel was on her way. She was an unintended victim. This would destroy evidence in the house, but Nate would know that unless the body was completed destroyed, the true cause of death would be determined.   And that would require planning and Nate being sure no innocent people would be showing up. He wouldn't take that chance IMO. ( But he sure did stay away from the scene after the fire. ) Oh well....never mind. 

[Milaxx]

I think that is what Frank did. I don't think Nate is smart enough to rig an explosion like that. Also he's way too whipped. He may not admit it, but if AK said she wanted him back, I bet he'd come a running.

[wanderingstar]

Even though he can't testify, we're definitely going to see what was in Wes' deal, right? 

[Milaxx]

I doubt it since it was never concretely defined. All we know is that the DA's office wants to take AK down and they were hoping that Wes could provide them with information to do so. Wes never signed the deal and never gave them any information.

[possibilities]

I'm confused about what happened with the snitch issue, because Bonnie was saying there was a snitch, and so if Wes didn't tell them anything, someone else must have. And also, Wes was crossing things off on the paperwork, saying it wasn't accurate.

However, even if he didn't tell them anything, I'm curious what he was planning to tell them.

[sking24450]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm confused about what happened with the snitch issue, because Bonnie was saying there was a snitch, and so if Wes didn't tell them anything, someone else must have. And also, Wes was crossing things off on the paperwork, saying it wasn't accurate.

However, even if he didn't tell them anything, I'm curious what he was planning to tell them.

Wes was crossing things out as it related to the immunity deal, he was angling for blanket immunity.  Then when the cops left he retrieved the voicemail from Annalise and snuck out of the station.

Someone pointed out that Wes could have been attempting blanket immunity to confess to her murder, but we may never know unless he runs over the deal with someone else.

[Aquarius97]

Starting with the people who has a solid alibi, and can't have killed Wes

. Michaela: She was in her house with her mother until she received the call from Oliver on Connor's phone

. Asher: He stayed in the party being semi-unconscious and really drunked until Michaela finds him

. Laurel: She was also in the party until AK calls her. After trying to find Connor and left Asher in the party, she headed straight to the house. She had been no longer than 20 seconds in the house before the fire. Impossible to have kill Wes.

Despite this, one thing that doesn't fit me is that Laurel saw Wes dead in the house. Meggy and Laurel knew about Wes' death in the hospital room, because if Laurel knew that Wes was dead, why didn't she tell Meggy or anyone else that. At that time, I think she could already talk

About Oliver, i can't see him as a killer, but he was alone in the clinic all the afternoon until AK calls him. As before the call he hadn't discovered yet that Sam's disapearing was the day that Connor told him he was high (later told he was traumatized), so no reason to somehow clash with Wes somewhere and kill him

In the timeline, we know that Wes is called by AK at 4:22 PM, and leaves the police station inmediately to go to the house. Nate is at the station while Wes is. And Laurel enters the house at 10:12 PM, with the explosion being at the same time.

We also know that nobody entered in the house between AK leaves to see Bonnie, and the arrive of Nate. So Wes never was alive in the house or he appeared there after Nate.

The other suspects:

. Mahoney mum: There is a chance that she finds out who is Wes actually. Other possibility would be that even she didn't know about Wes being Christophe, she sends someone to kill Wes for testifying against his son, so he can't talk in a trial

. Bonnie: We don't know anything about her since she was with Frank in a hotel, supposedly at the same time that Annalise wakes up in her house and calls Wes, until she comes back to his place getting the call from Annalise already in jail

. Frank: Same as Bonnie. We don't know anything about him until she gets the call from Bonnie while being in front of AK's house

IMO, the fire is a Bonnie/Frank thing , probably not related to Wes' death

. Nate: He's the only one to be confirmed to be in the house in the afternoon, and at least he's the first to be since AK leaves. I can't see a reason for what he would kill Wes

. Annalise: Since called Wes (4:22 PM, remember), we don't know anything until she calls Oliver to hack DA's office. Annalise calls both Oliver and Laurel from Bonnie's, and the time must be close to 10 PM, as Laurel almost goes there inmediately

I hope that Annalise isn't the one who started the fire, because that would mean that she wanted to kill the entire K5, as she tried that all of them were at her house

. Connor: Since he left Michaela's house without his phone we only know that he hooked up with Thomas, and then he appeared at the hospital. As he threatened Wes before, just a little clue about Wes' deal might have started a fight. It smells really bad

. Levi (Rebecca's brother): With the amount of drugs that Frank put on his car, i don't think that he can be out of jail now. Anyway, why would he kill Wes, if he was the only other one trying to find Rebecca?ç

. Atwood: There is a scene where he's trying to contact with Nate and believes that he is in contact with Annalise. For me it's a slim chance that she might have gone to AK house and killed Wes there, but you never know in this show 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Aquarius97

[Tiger]

The main female anchor at my ABC Affiliate must have the same cable provider I do, becsuse she's been tweeting about them putting Charlie Weber's name in the description for Thurs' Jimmy Kimmel when he wasnt the actual actor in question.  

I personally want to know where they got this info.  She was pointing out that this week episode descriptions for a few shows she watches were completely wrong too.  

ETA: if the actual snitch wasnt Wes, then I come back to it being Connor.  Further, it will be total character assasination if now that one of the K5 is dead that Connor doesnt do whatever he can to escape Annalise's vortex.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Tiger

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Aquarius97 said:

Despite this, one thing that doesn't fit me is that Laurel saw Wes dead in the house. Meggy and Laurel knew about Wes' death in the hospital room, because if Laurel knew that Wes was dead, why didn't she tell Meggy or anyone else that. At that time, I think she could already talk

Good points on that entire post. As for why Laurel didn't tell Meggy that Wes was dead, I wonder if she saw Wes unconscious (dead but she didn't know it) in the house and was going to him when the explosion and fire started. There wasn't much time between Laurel waking up, scrawling that note to Meggy and the next scene with the intubation removed and them learning that Wes is dead. Also you can't really talk post intubation (based on personal experience both as someone who was once intubated and someone who worked in a hospital).

[J.D.]

Wes' killer could be anyone.  Heck, it could be one of the 2 cops who were granting Wes immunity.  It's whoever Pete Nowalk wants it to be.  He himself said he hadn't settled on Wes being the victim until they finished filming episode 7.  Remember how we were all theorizing during episode's 1 - 7?  Well, even the writers of the show didn't know the killer at that point.  Nowalk was toggling back and forth between Wes, Connor, Nate and Frank.  (Personally, I think he made the wrong choice, but that's just me).

The show's ratings have been tanking ever since the start of last season's winter return.  Then, when the show's PTB were hoping the start of Season 3 would resurrect the show, that failed as well.  HTGAWM has fallen into the same rating's vortex as Empire -- which had an AWESOME Season 1 and a mediocre everything else.  They had no choice but to throw this 'hail Mary' pass by killing off a main and well liked character to try and save the show from cancellation.  I hope it works, but  I bet it doesn't.  

[Dee]

Empire's doing great. It has, in its third season, experienced a relative ratings erosion, as most other shows do (in their first seasons), but compared to HTGAWM's precipitous decline it's still doing relatively monster numbers.

Killing Wes was a big move for the show, but the real issue will be who the culprit is and which characters Pete uses to fill the void. This could be a Sleepy Hollow/Person Of Interest level disaster for HTGAWM even with the legendary Viola Davis as the show's star.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Dee

[J.D.]

42 minutes ago, Dee said:

Empire's doing great.

"Great" is a bit of a stretch. http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/empire-season-three-ratings/

I don't understand what the purpose was of Wes being present while Frank (or whoever) shot his biological father.  Also, are we to believe the body they found in the woods is Rebecca?  How could they have made a positive ID that quickly?  And what significance does that have to Wes ending up dead? 

[Tiger]

About the ratings, a lot of people are still watching the show but theyre not watching it live on ABC on Thursday at 10.  

I'll be honest, this show is the only non-sports that I watch live; everything else gets dvr'ed and then watches days or sometimes weeks later with the commercials ff'ed.

[JaggedLilPill]

This may be a stupid question, but was Wes ever adopted or did he just remain in foster care? Because I'm wondering if like Rebecca and Michaela, we'll see any of Wes' foster/adopted family now that he's dead.

[Dee]

7 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Uh, no.  It wins its timeslot in total viewers and the 18-49, 18-34, and 25-54 demos in men, women, and total, it does well in live+3 and C3, does really well in live +7 and stellar in live+30.

It's also doing really well via streaming and internationally.  Lastly, its one of ABC's top 10pm shows and among the top of all network 10pm shows. 

Unless Davis wants out, Murder is 100% guaranteed to be renewed.  

Just last night, HTGAWM was beat, in its timeslot, in total viewers, by CBS Pure Genius; despite beating PG in the demo.

HTGAWM is fairly solid in key demos but its significant slide, both in same day, and live +3&7, ratings is worrying, especially when one factors in the shows extensive promotion and the fact that its a Shondaland production. By comparison, Quantico, with boasts a fairly unknown headliner, has similar ratings, with slightly weaker demos, is almost certain to be cancelled in the spring.

[possibilities]

I wonder if Oliver could be the snitch. It's a longshot, but so is everything else right now.

7 hours ago, Aquarius97 said:

Despite this, one thing that doesn't fit me is that Laurel saw Wes dead in the house.

I don't think she did see him there. Maybe she did, but I think it's just as likely that she was asking if he was ok, because she had been leaving him messages telling him to show up, and knew he was supposed to be there. She might have worried that he got caught in the fire, even if she didn't know for sure. Or she could have seen him in the seconds after she entered, before the explosion.

Do the K5 have keys to the house? Early in the day, Anna left the door open by accident, and Nate went in. I would assume he shut it when he left, but it's possible he didn't. At some point after that, Wes is in the house (maybe he let himself in alive and committed suicide or was murdered while there, or maybe someone killed him elsewhere and brought him in). Then, later, Laurel enters the house, and we know Anna wasn't there, so either it was still unlocked, or Laurel had a key.

A key doesn't prove or disprove anything in general, because a murderer or arsonist surely would be willing and able to break in. But I somehow didn't think the K5 had keys, so Laurel letting herself in struck me as strange, and made me think maybe someone else was already there (and alive) at the time, and opened the door for her. Or Nate left it unlocked, I guess.

It's crazy that we're trying to figure something out that supposedly hasn't been decided yet. They could introduce some completely unknown person to do it, or Simon could have done it. After all, Simon was the one behind the posters earlier this year. Or, you know, the furnace could have exploded completely by accident, and Wes died by tripping and falling down the stairs before then. That wouldn't be in keeping with the show's general way of being, but it's no weirder than other previous contrivances.

[Tiger]

6 minutes ago, Dee said:

Just last night, HTGAWM was beat, in its timeslot, in total viewers, by CBS Pure Genius; despite beating PG in the demo.

HTGAWM is fairly solid in key demos but its significant slide, both in same day, and live +3&7, ratings is worrying, especially when one factors in the shows extensive promotion and the fact that its a Shondaland production. By comparison, Quantico, with boasts a fairly unknown headliner, has similar ratings, with slightly weaker demos, is almost certain to be cancelled in the spring.

Okay I just checked and the total viewers tvbythenumbers has for Pure Genius is not correct; I have no idea where they got that number.

Also, the past two weeks at least Quantico had a 0.6 in the demo in live + same day.  Quantico is making the studio a shit of money because it's doing extremely well internationally, but its U.S. live+ same day ratings are significantly lower than Murder.

[J.D.]

3 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I wonder if Oliver could be the snitch.

I was thinking the same thing.  As a hacker he has to know stuff he's not letting on about.  

[Dee]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

Okay I just checked and the total viewers tvbythenumbers has for Pure Genius is not correct; I have no idea where they got that number.

The ratings system must be incorrect in general then, because every site that reports ratings has Pure Genius beating HTGAWM.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Dee

[possibilities]

Here's a look at the ratings for ABC shows (which includes HTGAWM) and CBS shows (which includes Pure Genius).

Shows get renewed based on their status relative to other shows on the same network, so I think that it's less important what the absolute numbers are, to be honest.

ABC: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-abc-week-8-see-you-soon-conviction/

CBS: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-cbs-week-8-the-odd-couple-is-likely-to-be-the-odd-comedy-out/

HTGAWM is the top 3rd out of 9 dramas on ABC. To me, that seems hopeful for renewal.

If these numbers are correct, Pure Genius is the second lowest rated scripted show on CBS, which I'd expect to be a very bad sign, especially when there aren't enough episodes in the can for a lucrative syndication possibility.

[Milaxx]

I won't go into the rating game. Right now Shondaland is a hot commodity for ABC and unless it lands firmly in the bottom or Viola leaves the show, I doubt it's at any risk of cancellation

Since this is the speculation thread, who do we think if anyone if pushing the DA's office to go after AK so strongly? I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't Hannah. I know the actress is busy with her own series, but Hannah always believed AK had something to do with Sam's death. Maybe she's pulling strings behind the scenes?

[jvr]

This thread isn't about ratings as far as I know, I guess you can take this talk to the media thread if you desire to continue it. I don't care to speculate about cancelation because it has nothing to do with the storyline which is why I'm in this thread (and not the media thread). 

Anyway I like the idea that Laurel had not seen Wes and was just concerned that he might have been in the blast. I hate when shows don't allow enough time for something to occur (her entering the house and maybe 7 seconds later it blowing up), I guess they assume we won't care about the details like that. Her being in the basement that quickly better be explained, maybe she got a text from Wes telling her to go down there before he died? Did he know Rebecca was down there before she was killed?

On 11/18/2016 at 0:43 AM, pennben said:

Welp, I couldn't help but to look under the hidden quotes about the Kimmel appearance a few days ago, so I was doubly surprised tonight.

This is just me talking here, so feel free to disregard.  I come to the non-spoiler/speculation thread because I'm addicted to spoilers even though I don't really want them, so I do my best to stay out of that thread.  And although even looking under the hidden contents this time didn't spoil anything, perhaps in the future when there are thought to be spoilers, maybe move the discussion to the spoiler thread?  Again, that's just me as I can't resist clicking to hidden info, even though I know I shouldn't.  That's obviously my problem, no one else's, so again, please feel free to disagree.

Unlike you, I was able to restrain myself from looking because I had made it that far without reading anything that definitively said who died. After we found out it was Wes I immediately came back in here to look under the spoiler tag and dammit, I wish I had read that before the ep. It would have been awesome to think I knew who was dying and then to get doubly shocked!

My first guess for the killer is...idk. Frank kills everyone and everything without remorse, it wouldn't be interesting if him, Ana already resents him as well. Bonnie too is obviously someone who would kill anyone that gets in their way. I don't think they would pin it on any of the K4 but maybe they would. Michaela has an alibi and so does Asher. It's not Laurel. That leaves just Connor. Nate was shown in the house earlier, too obvious so not him. Ana is not a killer, especially when she has killers at her disposal...as far as we have seen she has never told anyone to kill anyone else right? They have done it on their own, I like this aspect. 

So...Connor, Mahoneys, DA lady... if Connor I think we will find out it was an accident. And the fire was done by Frank. I can see Connor flipping out if they both ended up at the house (maybe he went there on his own without the K bat signal) and Wes told him he was getting an immunity deal and selling them all out. Connor would be enraged since he wanted to go to the police in the beginning when Wes killed Sam.

4 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Since this is the speculation thread, who do we think if anyone if pushing the DA's office to go after AK so strongly? I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't Hannah. I know the actress is busy with her own series, but Hannah always believed AK had something to do with Sam's death. Maybe she's pulling strings behind the scenes?

Hannah is Sam's sister right? I've wondered about her a few times in relation to whether she is still wondering about Ana. If they could get the actress back I wouldn't be opposed to this being the case.

Edited November 20, 2016 by jvr

[pennben]

Would it be too on the nose if it turns out that Wes was killed by getting clocked in the head with the infamous statue that he used to kill Sam?  I noticed its reappearance this last episode. 

Edited November 20, 2016 by pennben

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, pennben said:

Would it be too on the nose if it turns out that Wes was killed by getting clocked in the head with the infamous statue that he used to kill Sam?  I noticed its reappearance this last episode. 

Probably so but it would be ironic and funny as hell.

2 hours ago, jvr said:

Hannah is Sam's sister right? I've wondered about her a few times in relation to whether she is still wondering about Ana. If they could get the actress back I wouldn't be opposed to this being the case.

Yes that's Sam's sister. Since they did a better job this season tying up loose ends, like the constant emphasis on them needing to study and (possibly) wrapping up the Rebecca storyline, bringing Hannah back would bring things full circle.

[Aquarius97]

9 hours ago, jvr said:

Anyway I like the idea that Laurel had not seen Wes and was just concerned that he might have been in the blast. I hate when shows don't allow enough time for something to occur (her entering the house and maybe 7 seconds later it blowing up), I guess they assume we won't care about the details like that. Her being in the basement that quickly better be explained, maybe she got a text from Wes telling her to go down there before he died? Did he know Rebecca was down there before she was killed?

 

Rebecca was locked up in the basement because Sinclair appeared in the house, so Rebecca was last seen alive in the basement. 

About a text from Wes to Laurel, it's impossible. When Laurel was about to enter the house, she texted Wes asking where was he. If she had known that Wes was in the house, she wouldn't have only said "Annalise!, Annalise!"

 

Another thing I've been thinking of is the snitch. Having in count that Annalise has been arrested for the murder of Wes and arson, the snitch must be the one who killed Wes. At this point, all leads to Connor. I can't see Frank & Bonnie betraying in that way AK, and any other character wouldn't be an anonymous source (Atwood and Nate are DA workers)

[Tiger]

My understanding, and I could he mistaken, is that Code Black is only 18 eps this season Marcia Gay Harden may be available briefly.  Same for Famke Jaansen as Blacklist 2 is doing a short order and apparantly not airing until late Feb/early Mar.

I think they just started filming again for the back-half of the season for this show within the last week or so.