S24.E17 A Perfect Family

[Xeliou66]

Episode description 

When a student is thrown to her death, Riley zeros in on a family secret to piece together her last moments. Price and Maroun must rely on the eyewitness account of a young child to determine if an unlikely suspect should be charged with murder. 

[dubbel zout]

Riley came in awfully hot on the volleyball coach.

Price and Maroun looked surprised when the husband's testimony turned his wife's illness against her. What did they expect?

Nolan shouldn't make threats he won't keep.

Edited April 4 by dubbel zout
a bit o' clarity

[MerBearHou]

Tough, good episode.  First of all, I miss Jalen — again!

I was OK with the jury’s decision.  I was not surprised when Price decided to not ask the sister questions on the stand.  After what her grandmother said about the little girl’s very poor state of mind after her sister died, and playing it out on how the little girl might / probably would feel if she testified to put her father in prison after her mom was already gone from the house, well, Price decided to save that sister from adding to her sadness and guilt of being the remaining big sister.  I was actually proud of Price making that choice over having to win at all costs.  

Yes, the father was a hard-ass type but he has to live with losing one daughter at the hands of her mother and knowing he might have been able to support his wife when she was suffering from post-partum.  But I did not want the other parent taken away from the two daughters.  

I found the mother to be far more clear-thinking at times than she claimed or was assessed to be — she worked hard to throw suspicion on an alternate suspect, the coach who turned out to be spot-on about Emily’s concerns at home, and she had to work to get her daughter out of school and take her to the High Line — that took planning.  I guess she could say the voice told her to do all of those things.

Edited April 4 by MerBearHou

[Diana Berry]

42 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Tough, good episode.  First of all, I miss Jalen — again!

I was actually OK with the jury’s decision.  I was not surprised when Price decided to not ask the sister questions on the stand.  After what her grandmother said about the little girl’s very poor state of mind after her sister died, and playing it out on how the little girl might / probably would feel if she testified to put her father in prison after her mom was already gone from the house, well, Price decided to save that sister from adding to her sadness and guilt of being the remaining big sister.  I was actually proud of Price making that choice over having to win at all costs.  

Yes, the father was a hard-ass type but he has to live with losing one daughter at the hands of her mother and knowing he might have been able to support his wife when she was suffering from post-partum.  But I did not want the other parent taken away from the two daughters.  

I found the mother to be far more clear-thinking at times than she claimed or was assessed to be — she worked hard to throw suspicion on an alternate suspect, the coach who was actually spot-on about Emily’s concerns at home, and she had to work to get her daughter out of school and take her to the High Line — that took planning.  I guess she could say the voice told her to do all of those things.

Agree I went back and forth with the mother’s state of mind.  I liked the the episode made me think.

[Xeliou66]

Good episode until the end - Price showed he’s too soft to be a great prosecutor the way Jack and Ben were - while I’ve commented before that it’s unfair to compare him to Jack or Ben, tonight he just showed no spine, to quote Arthur Branch when he fired Serena “prosecution has to be cold blooded”, and Price just didn’t have that in him. Neither does Maroun usually. It’s why the legal side is sometimes shaky and not as stellar as the investigative side.   
It was ignored that with the dad getting off he would get custody of the 2 remaining kids, and he likely wouldn’t get the older daughter the psychological help she needed given his views. I hope the grandma was somehow able to sue for custody of Amanda, because this dad was a dick and he didn’t seem to reflect on realizing he was wrong and he had anger issues. Price just lacked a spine here - while Price is always hit or miss with me, I disliked him tonight, he seemed to be the polar opposite of Mike Cutter - whereas Cutter would do anything to win and not care about the consequences, Price cared too much about the consequences to be an effective prosecutor.

It was interesting that the mom was genuinely psychotic and wasn’t faking it, that’s only happened occasionally on L&O, and I really liked seeing a psych expert for the first time on the revival, maybe she’ll recur when they need one, I miss Skoda/Olivet.

I predicted a family member would be involved but I wasn’t sure if it was mom or dad or quite where the story was going. I missed Shaw again but Riley and Brady have established a nice rapport, Brady is a solid interrogator and Riley was good as usual - I agree he was a bit aggressive with the coach, not the norm for him, but I was glad there was no personal tie to the case and I actually didn’t mind Riley’s scenes with his daughter, Riley is one of my favorites and I hope they keep his personal life drama free. I did wonder where Riley’s son was, maybe his wife took him to school, and I guess he’s reconciled with his wife since it seemed like they were all living together - I think it would be nice to have one character with a drama free home life so I hope they keep it that way for Vince.

Solid enough case and episode but Price reminded me why he can be soft at times and him and Maroun just don’t have enough cold blood in them for lack of a better term.

Next week looks very interesting but I’m nervous as well, I hope they don’t fracture the Shaw/Riley relationship or make one of them look bad. 

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I miss Skoda/Olivet.

So do I. As soon as Baxter said to let their psych talk to the mom, I got sad we wouldn't see either of them but some rando.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

It was ignored that with the dad getting off he would get custody of the 2 remaining kids, and he likely wouldn’t get the older daughter the psychological help she needed given his views. I hope the grandma was somehow able to sue for custody of Amanda, because this dad was a dick and he didn’t seem to reflect on realizing he was wrong and he had anger issues. Price just lacked a spine here - while Price is always hit or miss with me, I disliked him tonight, he seemed to be the polar opposite of Mike Cutter - whereas Cutter would do anything to win and not care about the consequences, Price cared too much about the consequences to be an effective prosecutor.

This bothered me greatly. Poor girl has mental illness on both sides of her family and she's going to be living with her father who will deny her care. As much as testifying will damage her, that damage cannot be worse than living with her father. That man had not and was never going to learn his lesson, and it's only a matter of time before poor Amanda kills herself.

[Raja]

SEAL saw right through Price's bluff. Maroun wasn't impressed by his court suit qualification badge

[Spartan Girl]

14 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Yes, the father was a hard-ass type but he has to live with losing one daughter at the hands of her mother and knowing he might have been able to support his wife when she was suffering from post-partum.

It didn't seem like he was too torn up about that.

At least when Criminal Intent did an episode like this, they implied that the surviving son would wind up in the custody of the grandma (because Goren and Eames got her in touch with a good lawyer).

14 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I found the mother to be far more clear-thinking at times than she claimed or was assessed to be — she worked hard to throw suspicion on an alternate suspect, the coach who turned out to be spot-on about Emily’s concerns at home, and she had to work to get her daughter out of school and take her to the High Line — that took planning.  I guess she could say the voice told her to do all of those things.

A better episode might have made it more ambiguous to whether or not she was lying or not for those reasons. 

[SAS]

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Riley came in awfully hot on the volleyball coach.

He has a daughter. That's one way the scenes with his daughter tie in. He was ready to believe the volleyball coach all the girls have a crush on and offers one on one lessons was a pervert because he's on high alert for those types, because he a father of a girl.

[txhorns79]

I think Price refusing to go forward with questioning the daughter should be a firing offense.  It was ridiculous.  It made him look extremely weak, and now he's sent a girl to be raised by a parent who Price has said was so callous that he ignored his wife's deteriorating mental condition and played a role in his other's daughter's death.  When even Maroun looked annoyed with him, he needs to be banished to teach at the Serena Southerlyn School for Lesbian Attorneys.  

29 minutes ago, SAS said:

He has a daughter. That's one way the scenes with his daughter tie in. He was ready to believe the volleyball coach all the girls have a crush on and offers one on one lessons was a pervert because he's on high alert for those types, because he a father of a girl.

Yeah, he did the Elliot Stabler thing of being wildly unprofessional and messing up his own investigation because he couldn't leave his personal feelings out of it.   

Edited April 5 by txhorns79

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Price refusing to go forward with questioning the daughter should be a firing offense.  It was ridiculous.  It made him look extremely weak, and now he's sent a girl to be raised by a parent who Price has said was so callous that he ignored his wife's deteriorating mental condition and played a role in his other's daughter's death.  When even Maroun looked annoyed with him, he needs to be banished to teach at the Serena Southerlyn School for Lesbian Attorneys.  

Yeah, he did the Elliot Stabler thing of being wildly unprofessional and messing up his own investigation because he couldn't leave his personal feelings out of it.   

Riley was nowhere near as unprofessional as Stabler used to be and he didn’t make any errors the way Stabler used to, he didn’t prematurely arrest anyone or ignore evidence because of feelings, but yeah he was unusually heated with the coach because of his being a parent, it felt forced honestly, Riley is usually pretty laid back. I did like how Riley and his daughter had pretty normal interactions without much drama and I hope they keep his personal life drama free. I didn’t care for how pissed Riley was with the coach but he wasn’t nearly as bad as Stabler and other SVU cops used to be.

Agreed completely about how Price came off as so weak here, he showed he didn’t have enough ice in his veins to effectively prosecute this case. Price and Maroun frequently come off as softies, Maroun moreso but Price has his moments as well. It’s probably why the legal side is definitely weaker than the investigative side - Price/Maroun just don’t have enough cold blood in them frequently to be strong DAs. 

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Riley was nowhere near as unprofessional as Stabler used to be and he didn’t make any errors the way Stabler used to, he didn’t prematurely arrest anyone or ignore evidence because of feelings, but yeah he was unusually heated with the coach because of his being a parent, it felt forced honestly, Riley is usually pretty laid back. I did like how Riley and his daughter had pretty normal interactions without much drama and I hope they keep his personal life drama free. I didn’t care for how pissed Riley was with the coach but he wasn’t nearly as bad as Stabler and other SVU cops used to be.

In this case Detective Riley was also with his supervisor, not his partner.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed completely about how Price came off as so weak here, he showed he didn’t have enough ice in his veins to effectively prosecute this case. Price and Maroun frequently come off as softies, Maroun moreso but Price has his moments as well. It’s probably why the legal side is definitely weaker than the investigative side - Price/Maroun just don’t have enough cold blood in them frequently to be strong DAs. 

It's not about having ice in his veins.  You can care about the girl's well being, while still recognizing her importance as a witness.  If she somehow is the only one who can reliably speak about her mother's condition and her father's reaction to it, then she has to be put on the stand.  Otherwise, why did you bring the case at all? 

Edited April 5 by txhorns79

[edhopper]

"He will just lie under cross" WTH! Of course he will lie, but a good lawyer will catch his lies and push him to incriminate himself. Not cross examining a defendant you know is lying is malpractice.

He is now free to destroy the lives of his two other daughters.

Bad episode, bad writing.

[psychfan]

I’m really glad to see so many comments here as appalled with that ending as I was. That was ridiculous. How could anyone think his kids are better off being raised by this guy who not only disregards the reality of serious mental illness and treatment for it, but who also is so willing to lie about their mom, totally smearing her to serve himself? Why on earth would Price think he’ll ‘live with this’ for the rest of his life, when he showed not a drop of remorse for the fact that his actions led to it? I’m so disgusted.

[shapeshifter]

On 4/3/2025 at 10:35 PM, Xeliou66 said:

It was ignored that with the dad getting off he would get custody of the 2 remaining kids, and he likely wouldn’t get the older daughter the psychological help she needed given his views. I hope the grandma was somehow able to sue for custody of Amanda

At the moment when the 10-year old daughter was on the stand, and Nolan decided it would be harmful to her to testify against her father, could Nolan have asked to speak to the opposing counsel and the judge in the judge’s chambers, and offered a deal that only included something like mental health treatments for the 10-year old?
…in exchange for something almost like dropping the case? (IANAL and don’t know the options or the legal terminology.)

Edited April 5 by shapeshifter

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Price refusing to go forward with questioning the daughter should be a firing offense.  It was ridiculous.  It made him look extremely weak, and now he's sent a girl to be raised by a parent who Price has said was so callous that he ignored his wife's deteriorating mental condition and played a role in his other's daughter's death.  When even Maroun looked annoyed with him, he needs to be banished to teach at the Serena Southerlyn School for Lesbian Attorneys.  

He pulled the same crap with that one episode with the bigot dad killing the doctor that was helping his trans daughter, and as a result the guy only got ten years for a murder. I know it was putting the child through hell to be forced to testify against her dad, but I said at the time that it wouldn't help her psyche to know that she didn’t stand up for the doctor who was trying to help her. Tha5 was shit writing too.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

t's not about having ice in his veins.  You can care about the girl's well being, while still recognizing her importance as a witness.  If she somehow is the only one who can reliably speak about her mother's condition and her father's reaction to it, then she has to be put on the stand.  Otherwise, why did you bring the case at all? 

Exactly.

[marny]

I thought the murder charge in this case was the usual overcharging that this show does. Despite the mother’s post-partum, she managed to get herself to a psychiatrist, so she knew she needed help. She absolutely could have just taken the prescribed meds secretly and helped herself, but instead apparently thought it was more important to appease the dad, which she consciously chose to do. While the shitty dad should have worried about his wife and supported her, there’s no evidence he knew the severity of danger she posed. His lawyer was right that the mother was responsible for the daughter’s death and she had enough moments of clarity and stability to override her husband’s wishes and take the meds. The proper outcome was a divorce, not murder charges against the husband. The husband sucked but that’s not a crime. 
 

Also this may be one of the first L&O episodes I’ve seen where they were like “oh, she’s insane? Ok.” Usually they try to argue with the psychiatrist way more in order to prosecute the bad guy. Particularly since mom knew right from wrong enough to lie to the police about her whereabouts. And kept lying until they confronted her with the video. 

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

When even Maroun looked annoyed with him, he needs to be banished to teach at the Serena Southerlyn School for Lesbian Attorneys.

I never knew Bryn Mawr had a law school...

[Theli11]

20 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, he did the Elliot Stabler thing of being wildly unprofessional and messing up his own investigation because he couldn't leave his personal feelings out of it.   

He didn't overreach like Elliot usually did. 

7 hours ago, marny said:

I thought the murder charge in this case was the usual overcharging that this show does.

Yeah this is a Manslaughter case.. Maybe Man 2 or 3. 

Investigative side was good and I thought Riley was really strong (especially these 3 episodes). I thought him and his daughter was a good sideplot to go off on. Wish there was a shot of Lt. Brady in the car watching the conversation though..
Honestly, the fact that these two (Price & Maroun) fought to take this case, then proceeded to not go all the way should've been a conversation for Baxter to have with them at the end of the episode. I don't agree with Price's accessment and they should've looked at a different avenue like Family Court to determine whether or not the daughters would've been safe in the home with the father. Moms needed jailtime too, postpartum is a serious thing, but to kill your grown daughter and continue to lie about it.. I think a lot was said about Price's character so far and compared to other prosecutors:

On 4/3/2025 at 10:35 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Price showed he’s too soft to be a great prosecutor the way Jack and Ben were

I agree, I think if we do have 3 overzealous prosecutors we should have one who has a heavy heart like Price does. I just don't think the current combination of Maroun & Price are efficient. Someone's gotta be cold blooded between them and I thought after the premiere Maroun was headed down that route. I wish they would do more with her because I don't think they have since like episode 1` 

 

18 hours ago, edhopper said:

"He will just lie under cross" WTH! Of course he will lie, but a good lawyer will catch his lies and push him to incriminate himself. Not cross examining a defendant you know is lying is malpractice.

Haha I felt like "well no shit he's trying not to go to prison"

 

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I hope they keep his personal life drama free.

We already had his brother in Episode 3 so their quota should be filled.. Next episode's not looking good for my boy.... But I do like the drama, there should be some comparisons to "Marathon" down the line.


 

[Sake614]

On 4/3/2025 at 9:23 PM, MerBearHou said:

Yes, the father was a hard-ass type but he has to live with losing one daughter at the hands of her mother and knowing he might have been able to support his wife when she was suffering from post-partum.  But I did not want the other parent taken away from the two daughters

Meh. I don’t think he cares in the least. He certainly doesn’t feel responsible. He was fully prepared to let his daughter testify if it meant keeping him out of prison. 

[ML89]

First, Riley, no one in Miami is dressing like your daughter when it’s cold. They’d be in a hoodie, shorts and flip flops, or at least they are in my part of Florida. They wouldn’t be wearing that drab outfit, no wonder she didn’t want to wear it.

But the main offender was the whole prosecutor’s office, which needs to be fired. Baxter’s multiple conflicts  of interest, Maroun’s eye rolling moralizing (I was thinking she’d find out the guy wasn’t a SEAL or something), and then Nolan’s performance. I was hoping they’d let Maroun cross that awful dad, since she obviously triggered him, but that’s a Cutter move and Nolan doesn’t have the go for the jugular instinct. Instead Nolan just folds like a cheap suit and now those two girls get terrible lives. I missed Olivet or Skoda and what the hell was that other therapist doing, telling them how it all went down? This ep was a mess. 

 

Edited April 6 by ML89

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

I was hoping they’d let Maroun cross

In 62 episodes, has Maroun ever crossed a witness?

[watcher1006]

I guess I was puzzled by the course that Nolan took. To change course and purse a case against the father by making a deal with the mother after she changed her plea. As Baxter said, the evidentiary bar was very high, plus the main witness was very weak and not at all sympathetic (killed her child!) I don't know, if there was not sufficient justice in sending the mother away for treatment and they had to charge the father for something I would think it would be a lesser felony like. gross negligence. Seems more realistic, but such would not make a L&O episode.

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, watcher1006 said:

if there was not sufficient justice in sending the mother away for treatment and they had to charge the father for something I would think it would be a lesser felony like. gross negligence.

Is there such a thing as "obstructing a spouse from obtaining medical treatment"?

[marny]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is there such a thing as "obstructing a spouse from obtaining medical treatment"?

Not really, so long as he isn’t her guardian or something. But also, telling her he doesn’t want her to take them just isn’t obstruction. She’s a grown woman who can make decisions for herself. It’s not like he held her captive. Price’s back should be hurting from this enormous reach. 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, marny said:

She’s a grown woman who can make decisions for herself. It’s not like he held her captive. 

To me the husband seemed emotionally abusive. If he knew she was taking meds, he might have thrown them away at the very least. I can definitely see him berating her. 

Once again the show bites off more than it can chew by introducing too many plot points.

[Cotypubby]

Nolan was such a pussy. The father never showed even one iota of guilt or remorse over what he did. Nolan saying so does not make it true. Now he’ll get to deny his other daughter the psych care she clearly needs. Nolan put her at much more of a risk by letting that psycho go home to “care” for her.

I didn’t understand why he didn’t call the psychologist as a witness. Didn’t she say she saw the husband tear up the prescription?

[preeya]

12 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I didn’t understand why he didn’t call the psychologist as a witness. Didn’t she say she saw the husband tear up the prescription?

This ↑    I had the same thought and couldn't recall if she was called as a witness.

[Raja]

I just assume characters who give information during the police and DA investigations are not repeated for a court scene. The bail hearing now being all but gone with it the ADA's role on the show time is saved for the foot chase and twist.

[storyskip]

I’m tired of the WRITERS biting off more than they can chew.

It wouldn’t matter what characters were having to spit these stupid lines, the writers aren’t being consistent with the characters. The writers keep changing the characters attitudes/personalities to fit whatever “ripped from the headlines” special interest story of the week they try to cram into 42 minutes.

In this episode the writers were trying to cram in, post partum psychosis (a very complicated circumstance just on its own), toxic masculinity, anti-therapy (in place of anti-vaxx) philosophy, and domestic, emotional abuse all into one episode.

Each one of those subjects could/should be its own episode. Cramming them all into one was stupid.

 

[Raja]

31 minutes ago, storyskip said:

I’m tired of the WRITERS biting off more than they can chew.

It wouldn’t matter what characters were having to spit these stupid lines, the writers aren’t being consistent with the characters. The writers keep changing the characters attitudes/personalities to fit whatever “ripped from the headlines” special interest story of the week they try to cram into 42 minutes.

In this episode the writers were trying to cram in, post partum psychosis (a very complicated circumstance just on its own), toxic masculinity, anti-therapy (in place of anti-vaxx) philosophy, and domestic, emotional abuse all into one episode.

Each one of those subjects could/should be its own episode. Cramming them all into one was stupid.

 

I was expecting a religious explanation for the SEALs attitude towards the drug therapy. Normally L&O wouldn't back away but just give a counterfeit name to the organization.

[Madding crowd]

They could have just had the psychiatrist on to prove the husband tore up the prescription. If the mom was so bad she was seeing demons, wouldn’t her own mom , other family or friends see this? Why would the husband think someone hearing voices would just be fine? If he was super religious or had some reason it would have made more sense. It didn’t help that the mom seemed fine some of the time. By the time you think your children are demons you are past the point of acting normal on demand.

[Joimiaroxeu]

On 4/4/2025 at 5:09 PM, SAS said:

He has a daughter. That's one way the scenes with his daughter tie in. He was ready to believe the volleyball coach all the girls have a crush on and offers one on one lessons was a pervert because he's on high alert for those types, because he a father of a girl.

I thought maybe this part of the episode was ripped from a Canadian (CBC) true crime podcast called "The Banned Teacher." A popular music teacher was grooming students to accept increasing levels of physical intimacy until they were having full-on intercourse with him. The school authorities were loath to turn him in because he'd claim it was consensual, and either most of his victims wouldn't contradict him or law enforcement would accuse them of lying. The teacher ended up moving from school to school all over the country with impunity, leaving a trail of teenaged victims in his wake.

Edited Wednesday at 05:53 AM by Joimiaroxeu

[jabRI]

On 4/7/2025 at 12:55 AM, Cotypubby said:

I didn’t understand why he didn’t call the psychologist as a witness. Didn’t she say she saw the husband tear up the prescription?

Was coming here to say the same thing myself, a much better witness than the daughter since she can also offer an actual diagnosis.  Interesting that no HIPAA issue came up during her talk with them, assume the mother waived it.

[MediaZone4K]

watching this one week later, late to the party!

My goodness, was this the first that guilty verdict of the reboot! As I say, episodes are more compelling when the outcome is uncertain.

Im okay with the verdict. The dad bares fault in not encouraging his wife to seek treatment --which as the sane parent--further put his kids at risk. At the same time he didn't force the mom not to seek therapy as his attorney pointed out.

I knew the coach didn't do it because that would become an SVU case.

I get why Price backed down from questioning the little girl but it made him look weak. I remember when Kasey. Novak grilled a little girl on Law & Order despite her reservations.