S03.E06: Part Six - The Bounty

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Now on the run, Picard and the skeleton crew of the USS Titan must break into Starfleet's most top-secret facility to expose a plot that could destroy the Federation. Picard must turn to the only soul in the galaxy who can help: an old friend.

Dropping Thursday, March 23, 2023.

[PurpleTentacle]

They left a fully functional cloaking device in a museum with seemingly no security?! Are all those ships also still stocked with photon torpedos?!

I'm just so exhausted with all the dumb in this show. How and why do Twitter and Youtube think this is so much better than season one and two? Have the memberberries rotted their brains?

[Prevailing Wind]

Some of the stupidity is hard to hand-wave away.  I agree - a cloaking device? WTH?  And I guess that's all we're going to see of Daniel Davis as Moriarty.

And when Paramount+ says "New episodes on Thursdays!", they mean Pacific time.  As of 2 AM EDT, the ep still wasn't there.  Tried later, at 4:30 and there it was.  (Yeah, I'm having trouble sleeping.)

Edited March 23, 2023 by Prevailing Wind

[cambridgeguy]

Plot twist - the entire season is a PSA about how you should have your corpse cremated. 

[Prevailing Wind]

Watching "The Ready Room," one of the LaForge girls (I think it was Mika Burton) said the end is not what you'd be expecting.  Sounds like hype from the promo department that rarely pays off the way they think it will.

[Cattoy]

Random, incoherent thoughts.

You know, when I was a kid, Dad worked on a military base with a museum. A whole field of tanks there. They had to be towed into location because they didn't leave them fueled up, the cannon bores were sealed and there were no munitions stored in them. Star Fleet leaves working, untraceable cloaking technology for anyone to hot wire? Also, why steal the drive? Steal the Defiant, which had a cloaking device and was also Star Fleet's ultimate warship. Worf certainly knew how to fly it, and it would have given them a better fighting chance.

Did no one think to give a warning to their loved ones? "Oh, yeah, Changelings have infiltrated the Federation, be on the lookout." Troi's first appearance this season was a shrew and now she needs rescuing? Yeah, I'm sure she's thrilled by her role.

Jack is in no way believable as a 20-something. Good actor, but totally wrong for this part.

So, somehow Borg technology, which is not genetic, is apparently something you pass on to your kid? I give nanotech a lot of leeway, but this seems a stretch.

All those ships, and no one thought to scan the station for life forms and beam them out? They had to manually go in to find them? Maybe Star Fleet needs to raid the museum, 'cause Kirk's old ship had that ability.

Still, this is the best show with horrible writing I've seen in a while. I'll be back next week to see the next episode, but I doubt I'll ever bother with a rewatch of this season.

 

[meira.hand]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm just so exhausted with all the dumb in this show. How and why do Twitter and Youtube think this is so much better than season one and two? Have the memberberries rotted their brains?

They are relying on pure nostalgia for the old characters.

[paigow]

Where is the phased cloaking device retrieved from Pegasus? 

[Peace 47]

Geordi seemed a little out of character to me at the beginning, but I can’t put my finger on exactly why.  It’s not that Geordi in TNG could not be prickly when stressed, it’s just that the writing seemed to take it to an 11 until he cooled off and was forced by circumstance to join the team.  He did give me some real Joel in The Last of Us vibes when he was talking about not being able to help Jean-Luc and protect his family.

2 hours ago, Cattoy said:

Jack is in no way believable as a 20-something. Good actor, but totally wrong for this part.

When he was flirting with Sidney, I was thinking that they’re supposed to be, at most, the same age, and Jack is more likely a couple years younger, but when I saw them together, I was like, nah, this dude is divorced with one kid in elementary school, a mortgage payment and is checking his 401(k) to calculate if he’s saving enough for retirement.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Peace 47

[paigow]

TOS era cloaking devices were perfected by Romulans. Klingons acquired the technology during their alliance period.  However, since when do cloaking devices form an impenetrable physical shield around a ship???

Was Bounty completely restored after so much time in salt water? The engine room was completely water tight? The cloaking device should be non-functional...

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by paigow

[greekmom]

20 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

When he was flirting with Sidney, I was thinking that they’re supposed to be, at most, the same age, and Jack is more likely a couple years younger, but when I saw them together, I was like, nah, this dude is divorced with one kid in elementary school, a mortgage payment and is checking his 401(k) to calculate if he’s saving enough for retirement.

Best response to the actor chosen to portray Jack. 

As soon as they said that the security system knows how to counteract or whatever, I knew it was Moriarty on the Daystrom station.
So they hand waved Brent Spiner's aging with one holographic message from Soong. 
Interesting, they do not mention who LaForge is married to. This whole "you were alot more daring in your youth and would have done the right thing" is a bullshit argument. Mainly because someone in their youth thinks different and someone older has had more experience and wont take as many chances.
Seriously. Damsel in distress for Troi!?!? Really show?  We are in 2023.
 

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

They left a fully functional cloaking device in a museum with seemingly no security?! Are all those ships also still stocked with photon torpedos?!

I'm not bothered by them leaving a fully functional cloaking device in the HMS Bounty. It's a museum piece. It is a bird of prey that is now 100-150 years old. Trying to steal its cloaking device should be like stealing Alexander Graham Bell's telephone and trying to jack it into a modern cellular network. Why would someone do that when there are plenty of modern telephones to access?

The principles behind a cloaking device can't be all that secret at this point, given that Kirk got his hands on one 100+ years ago. It's more that in what must be the stupidest treaty concession ever, the Federation agreed to forego its own research into cloaking tech. (Even despite my considerable fanwanking powers, I cannot conceive of an exchange that would possibly be a fair bargain for that.)

It's unlikely that anyone is going to try to steal it, and one can handwave that jack and Sidney were in a particularly good place to steal it because of their combination of mad skillz and Geordi and Alandra being distracted. 

9 hours ago, greekmom said:

Best response to the actor chosen to portray Jack. 

As soon as they said that the security system knows how to counteract or whatever, I knew it was Moriarty on the Daystrom station.
So they hand waved Brent Spiner's aging with one holographic message from Soong. 
Interesting, they do not mention who LaForge is married to. This whole "you were alot more daring in your youth and would have done the right thing" is a bullshit argument. Mainly because someone in their youth thinks different and someone older has had more experience and wont take as many chances.
Seriously. Damsel in distress for Troi!?!? Really show?  We are in 2023.
 

Well, the actual security system is Data/Lore/B4/Lal. They just projected Moriarty momentarily. It seemed that they also wanted to test that it was the true Riker by seeding the "Pop Goes the Weasel" puzzle, which a Changeling would never have connected.

I suspect that is not actual Troi but just a Changeling. But I'm on heightened alert for Changelings since by genre conventions, at least one of Our Heroes is going to be subbed for a Changeling before it's all over. I was trying to figure out if it was going to be Geordi for a while, because I think he was much more spitfire than I remember him. I so hate the notion that "Well the galaxy is at stake but my family is at risk, so I'm not going to help you."

So...what do the Changelings want with Picard's body? Are they going to attempt to weaponize his disease? Is there some Borg remnants there that they are going to use to assimilate people? Why would Section 31 have stored his mortal body in the first place?

[Zaffy]

Weakest episode of the season so far, although still I quite enjoyed it.
It was like a Star Trek museum exhibition, ships, devices, multiple Datas, we even had Kirk's remains.  And all these reunions...
That was a packed episode and not in a good way. Too much. Too much. The opposite of the previous episode that had only one reunion that mattered.
Even Vadic became a Bond Villain Caricature.
Quantity is not quality. And Jack is annoying again... I hope we won't get any Jack based spin off... he is that close to be as unbearable  as Mic...Bur... (I won't say her full name, she might come to haunt me!)

[Peace 47]

4 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Plot twist - the entire season is a PSA about how you should have your corpse cremated.

Facts.  I thought that Picard buried Kirk under some rocks on a hilltop in Generations, but I guess that burial was just for the picturesque Instagram “RIP” shot, since I guess Kirk’s remains are with JLP’s now.

I’m not sure that both Jean-Luc and Raffi had to point out that Data has already died twice.  We all get that we have to overlook the repetition of that point for purposes of the full cast reunion we all want.  Probably best to move on.

Why does Geordi only call JLP “Jean-Luc” and never use his title? 

I did find Seven’s moment with Voyager quite touching, and I liked Shaw geeking out as an engineer being excited to meet Geordi.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Peace 47

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Well, the actual security system is Data/Lore/B4/Lal. They just projected Moriarty momentarily. It seemed that they also wanted to test that it was the true Riker by seeding the "Pop Goes the Weasel" puzzle, which a Changeling would never have connected.

I suspect that is not actual Troi but just a Changeling. But I'm on heightened alert for Changelings since by genre conventions, at least one of Our Heroes is going to be subbed for a Changeling before it's all over. I was trying to figure out if it was going to be Geordi for a while, because I think he was much more spitfire than I remember him. I so hate the notion that "Well the galaxy is at stake but my family is at risk, so I'm not going to help you."

So...what do the Changelings want with Picard's body? Are they going to attempt to weaponize his disease? Is there some Borg remnants there that they are going to use to assimilate people? Why would Section 31 have stored his mortal body in the first place?

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they are all Changelings.  Or Picard wakes up from a dream and finds Beverly taking a sonic shower and says "Morning Jean-Luc."  ala Dallas.

 

[Chit Chat]

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm just so exhausted with all the dumb in this show.

What I find dumb is that cigarettes are still a thing and are being used heavily while on a starship.  (insert eyeroll).

3 hours ago, meira.hand said:

They are relying on pure nostalgia for the old characters.

That certainly helps!  I can't believe that Worf is a pacifist now.  I think he's getting ready to go back into badass Klingon mode though.  There are a lot of things that can be nitpicked (rightfully so) with the show, but I'm just enjoying seeing everybody together again, so I don't mind some inconsistencies.  It was nice seeing the museum and taking that trip down memory lane.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 minute ago, ChitChat said:

What I find dumb is that cigarettes are still a thing and are being used heavily while on a starship.  (insert eyeroll).  

What's wrong with cigarettes? It seems likely that Starfleet have either the capacity to make completely/largely harmless cigarettes by the 2500s (as they did for synthehol), and/or the medical tech to eliminate or moderate any of the harmful effects of cigarettes as we know them.

[Chit Chat]

39 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

What's wrong with cigarettes?

Everything.  And it's rude to the people around them who don't care to breathe in the smoke or mist.  Also, wouldn't it be risky to light up anything (candle, cigarettes, etc.) within a starship?  You don't see our astronauts smoking on the ISS.  Our society won't have progressed very far if they're still smoking in the year 2500.  With all of that technology and advancements in medicine (hopefully), there should be a cure for addictions at that point.  Also, "harmless" is what my parents & in-laws were told about cigarettes back in the day, but yet we watched them die of COPD/emphysema, and cancer caused by cigarettes.   To trust that industry that they've come up with something "harmless" wouldn't be wise.  YMMV

 

[Stardancer Supreme]

Listen. I am full of the nostalgia nanobytes and I liked this episode!  So Section 31 had Picard's body and now lost it to the changelings? I was also wondering why they didn't just take the Defiant... Data/Soong/Lore is in play! 

Who is Geordi married to? This thing between Geordi and Sydney is because she chose not to be an engineer? Come on. If Sydney were male, this probably wouldn't have been an issue! 

33 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

What I find dumb is that cigarettes are still a thing and are being used heavily while on a starship.  (insert eyeroll).

That certainly helps!  I can't believe that Worf is a pacifist now.  I think he's getting ready to go back into badass Klingon mode though.  There are a lot of things that can be nitpicked (rightfully so) with the show, but I'm just enjoying seeing everybody together again, so I don't mind some inconsistencies.  It was nice seeing the museum and taking that trip down memory lane.  

 

I'll fanwank that Vadic is under considerable stress and needs the cigarettes to help them cope with the meatsuit they are forced to wear. Cannabis is still a thing here.  

3 hours ago, greekmom said:

Seriously. Damsel in distress for Troi!?!? Really show?  We are in 2023.

 

If Vadic doesn't also have Kestra, I'll believe that this Troi is a changeling.  We will see if Riker is smart enough to test to see if this is his Imzadi.  I can't believe that Troi would allow herself to be taken that easily.

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

Facts.  I thought that Picard buried Kirk under some rocks on a hilltop in Generations, but I guess that burial was just for the picturesque Instagram “RIP” shot, since I guess Kirk’s remains are with JLP’s now.

I did find Seven’s moment with Voyager quite touching, and I liked Shaw geeking out as an engineer being excited to meet Geordi.

 

I did chuckle at DataLoreSoong repeating what the Changelings stole from Daystrom and probably wondering why the others didn't get what he was saying before showing them what he meant.  Cremation is definitely the order of business. How odd for Section 31 to keep the remains of these particular captains... I need that Section 31 show now!  Again, full of nostalgia nanobytes; I was naming each ship along with Jack.  I find that the explanation for the visions to be partly okay for the moment, but how did Beverley not know about Picard's disease when Jack had those symptoms as a child? Sigh. 

4 hours ago, paigow said:

TOS era cloaking devices were perfected by Romulans. Klingons acquired the technology during their alliance period.  However, since when do cloaking devices form an impenetrable physical shield around a ship???

Was Bounty completely restored after so much time in salt water? The engine room was completely water tight? The cloaking device should be non-functional...

 

Heh. I guess Klingon craftsmanship is also superior!

I still liked this episode. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

If Vadic doesn't also have Kestra, I'll believe that this Troi is a changeling.  We will see if Riker is smart enough to test to see if this is his Imzadi.  I can't believe that Troi would allow herself to be taken that easily.

Troi and Riker are supposed to have some level of a psychic bond as Imzadi, at least per I think Encounter at Farpoint, even though it wasn't really developed during the rest of the series.

So if they do go the route of it being "Troi," hopefully it is quickly exposed. Then again, another Changeling could pose as Kestra.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[cambridgeguy]

15 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Everything.  And it's rude to the people around them who don't care to breathe in the smoke or mist.  Also, wouldn't it be risky to light up anything (candle, cigarettes, etc.) within a starship?  You don't see our astronauts smoking on the ISS.  Our society won't have progressed very far if they're still smoking in the year 2500.  With all of that technology and advancements in medicine (hopefully), there should be a cure for addictions at that point.  Also, "harmless" is what my parents & in-laws were told about cigarettes back in the day, but yet we watched them die of COPD/emphysema, and cancer caused by cigarettes.   To trust that industry that they've come up with something "harmless" wouldn't be wise.  YMMV

What industry - do you think Camel is shipping out cartons of cigarettes to the far reaches of the Federation?  It's the 25th century - if you want one then you ask for it from a replicator.  If a replicator can simulate alcohol without the negative effects then they can likely do the same with all sorts of unhealthy stuff.  No, it doesn't address the actual smoke (one of the reasons why smoking is a disgusting habit), but tobacco and nicotine are going to be out unless someone really wants it.

[starri]

I’m not even going to pretend like hearing snippets of the DS9, TOS and VOY themes as we swept across the Defiant, Enterprise-A and Voyager didn’t catch in my throat.  Especially hearing Seven talk about her time on the latter.

Also, in an INCREDIBLY deep pull from the beta-canon, there’s a shot, not lingering, of what appears to be the refit, Columbia-class NX-01.

[MissLucas]

Look show, I know nostalgia is your fuel that helps you steamroll through more plot-holes than Spongebob hides in his pants, so there was absolutely NO REASON TO DESTROY MY MENTAL IMAGE OF FLUFFY FRIENDLY TRIBBLES!!! WTF?!?

That is all.

Edited March 23, 2023 by MissLucas

[greekmom]

2 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Everything.  And it's rude to the people around them who don't care to breathe in the smoke or mist.  Also, wouldn't it be risky to light up anything (candle, cigarettes, etc.) within a starship?  You don't see our astronauts smoking on the ISS.  Our society won't have progressed very far if they're still smoking in the year 2500.  With all of that technology and advancements in medicine (hopefully), there should be a cure for addictions at that point.  Also, "harmless" is what my parents & in-laws were told about cigarettes back in the day, but yet we watched them die of COPD/emphysema, and cancer caused by cigarettes.   To trust that industry that they've come up with something "harmless" wouldn't be wise.  YMMV

 

The smoking confuses me.  When Odo did it, the cigar was just an extension of himself in the holedeck just like a drink was just an extension of himself at Quarks to make it appear that he is "joining in."

Yet in the past episode we saw Vadic actually LIGHT the cigar and she is a Changeling as per this episode.

So the writers are just making this up as they go along, not caring about what a changeling is, giving multiple personalities to the android that looks like Data (Can we see Lal come out soon for shits and giggles?) or really anything canon!?!?

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 minutes ago, greekmom said:

The smoking confuses me.  When Odo did it, the cigar was just an extension of himself in the holedeck just like a drink was just an extension of himself at Quarks to make it appear that he is "joining in."

Yet in the past episode we saw Vadic actually LIGHT the cigar and she is a Changeling as per this episode.

So the writers are just making this up as they go along, not caring about what a changeling is, giving multiple personalities to the android that looks like Data (Can we see Lal come out soon for shits and giggles?) or really anything canon!?!?

The show has made it clear that these changelings are apparently going further than DS9 changelings and replicating internal organs. (One would have thought DS9 changelings did too, but after death they turned back to goo. These don't and remain indistinguishable from the real things absent more detailed test than the just "cut some off and watch it revert to goo") 

So Vadic may have been smoking an actual cigar rather than playing at that by "lighting" part of herself.

As to Data/Lore/B4/Lal having multiple personalities, it seems to me that a) the creator is kind of a Frankenstein. In the big picture they did this because either they want to pad the run time or give Brent something more interesting (to him, not us) to do, and they wanted to sidestep that Data's last wish was to be deactivated. Like it literally makes no sense to incorporate Lore in anything, given that he's EVIL. Also, it's unclear where they would have been able to get Lore's program from. IIRC, the last we saw of him was when he was beaten trying to rally a splinter faction of the Borg.

[ShelleySue]

7 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

9 hours ago, Cattoy said:

Jack is in no way believable as a 20-something. Good actor, but totally wrong for this part.

When he was flirting with Sidney, I was thinking that they’re supposed to be, at most, the same age, and Jack is more likely a couple years younger, but when I saw them together, I was like, nah, this dude is divorced with one kid in elementary school, a mortgage payment and is checking his 401(k) to calculate if he’s saving enough for retirement.

According to IMDb Ed Speleers who plays Jack is going to be 35 next month.  That's just the right age for divorced, kid in elementary school, etc. In the whole universe of actors, why couldn't they find someone who was the correct age? Little things (is it little?) really bother me because when I look at the actor he doesn't match the character and that distracts me from the plot.

[Francie]

12 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

 

I'm just so exhausted with all the dumb in this show. How and why do Twitter and Youtube think this is so much better than season one and two? Have the memberberries rotted their brains?

I just came here after seeing the twitter reaction. It's bizarre. I know there's a lot of paid guerilla social media marketing out there, and I have to wonder if that's what's going on here. It's either that or a niche of fans who are banging drums loudly so as to drown out any criticism or even thoughtful discussion. So much of the twitter "buzz" is all about Paramount Plus giving Matalas the reins -- and tons more money -- to produce even more Star Trek. It's an interesting common refrain. For every 2 "I Ioved this episode!" there's as least one "Give Matalas a new show or "sign this petition for more Matalas-produced ST.". Meanwhile, Matalas is on twitter mocking fans and correcting their spelling. Whatev, dude. 

The other thing I can't get over is how sophomoric the writing is. When it's not glib, it's superficial. And when it's not glib or superficial, it's just someone repeating the obvious. Or repeating what someone else just said. It is truly some of the worst dialogue writing I've ever seen written, let alone produced (let alone produced with a huge budget). 

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, ShelleySue said:

According to IMDb Ed Speleers who plays Jack is going to be 35 next month.  That's just the right age for divorced, kid in elementary school, etc. In the whole universe of actors, why couldn't they find someone who was the correct age? Little things (is it little?) really bother me because when I look at the actor he doesn't match the character and that distracts me from the plot.

That's why I said, Thomas Dekker would have been a better fit. He's 29 but looks younger.

Edited March 23, 2023 by greekmom

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

What industry - do you think Camel is shipping out cartons of cigarettes to the far reaches of the Federation? 

Probably bootlegging them at that point if people want the real thing rather than a replicated product.  I have no love for the tobacco industry, and they will not go away easily.  Think of how fantastic it would be if people could be cured of their addictions.  With all of the illnesses that have been so easily cured throughout the history of Star Trek, curing addictions seems to be a fairly easy one for them to have overcome.  Again, I find it illogical to see people lighting up a cigarette on a spaceship.  It would seem to be highly dangerous to be walking around flicking your lighter everywhere.  

[Francie]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

Seriously. Damsel in distress for Troi!?!? Really show?  We are in 2023.

The entirety of Troi's dialogue being "Oh, Will" sent me back to the 1960s. Quite a feat, as I was not alive then. 

[iMonrey]

I can't remember, did we actually see Data die or is that something that happened off camera? I guess if they really wanted to get "Data" back in some capacity they had to account for Brent Spiner aging.

I thought they were just going to steal the war bird itself and fly back to Dastrom. Or it even would have been cool if they'd stolen Kirk's Enterprise or even Voyager, because it had older tech and couldn't be tracked the same way Titan is.

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

According to IMDb Ed Speleers who plays Jack is going to be 35 next month.  That's just the right age for divorced, kid in elementary school, etc. In the whole universe of actors, why couldn't they find someone who was the correct age? Little things (is it little?) really bother me because when I look at the actor he doesn't match the character and that distracts me from the plot.

 

He looks every bit of 35. Maybe they should have used the de-aging tech on him more.

 

1 hour ago, Francie said:

I just came here after seeing the twitter reaction. It's bizarre. I know there's a lot of paid guerilla social media marketing out there, and I have to wonder if that's what's going on here. It's either that or a niche of fans who are banging drums loudly so as to drown out any criticism or even thoughtful discussion. So much of the twitter "buzz" is all about Paramount Plus giving Matalas the reins -- and tons more money -- to produce even more Star Trek. It's an interesting common refrain. For every 2 "I Ioved this episode!" there's as least one "Give Matalas a new show or "sign this petition for more Matalas-produced ST.". Meanwhile, Matalas is on twitter mocking fans and correcting their spelling. Whatev, dude. 

 

I make it a point to stay away from Twitter, because I don't want to be spoiled. I am avoiding the Ready Room as well until the season is finished. I knew Geordi was coming, because I saw his face in a YouTuber review sneak peak; but the end of the episode made up for that momentary annoyance.

[thuganomics85]

The gang is all here!  Maybe?  You can never tell with all of the Changeling stuff going on.

So, Geordi finally makes his return and the years seem to have changed him from the more idealistic and hopeful Geordi from TNG to more of a cynical old man, who hates the idea of going back on another galaxy saving mission and especially hates the idea of his daughters putting their lives on the line as well.  Yeah, it is easy to see why Sydney and he clashed a lot and are still at a distance.  But, thanks to various circumstances, he is now on board for good, so we'll see how this all plays out.  Did love Shaw fanboying over him due to their engineer connection and Geordi just being "Yeah, that's lovely.  We'll talk more once we finish this and hopefully your ship won't resemble a current piece of crap right now") about it.

But that's not all: Data is back!  Well, sort of.  Turns out Soong was attempting to recreate him in a more humanoid body (that would a) explain Brent Spiner's aging and b) probably avoid him having to put on all that white make-up), but merge all of the personalities that he had create.  Sounds like Data might be the main driving force for now, but he is clearly in a constant battle with all of those personalities inside his head.  We already got a glimpse of Lore which, yeah, that's troubling!

And then to complete the reunion, RIker is captured by Vadic and her crew, and it is revealed that she has captured Troi as well and wants to use her to make him talk.  That said, I can definitely see her being a Changeling instead and this is some kind of trick by Vadic.  Hopefully Riker remembers this and at least prepares a pop quiz of some kind before revealing anything.

Turns out Jack's hallucinations might not be Changeling related, but inherited the disease that initially killed Picard instead.  Uh oh!

Worf continues to be the MVP.  Especially with his initial reaction to Seven and Raffi's awkwardness before the mission and his "Thank goodness!" when he finds out that Seven wasn't going along.  Worf might be into mediation and pacifism now, but he's still not down with awkward ex drama!

The Changelings took Picard's original body?  Hmm.....

Despite its flaws, I'm still not really surprised that there has been more positive responses elsewhere and I don't think it's just better marketing.  Nostalgia really can be a hell of a drug and I think having the original Next Generation crew back really has pleased fans in ways the other seasons haven't.  Hell, even knowing this, I can't deny that seeing Patrick Stewart interact with his old cast/friends again does bring a different energy to the proceedings that I find extremely enjoyable.  Between that and watching Amanda Plummer devour everything in her path, I'm finding this season extremely entertaining, which is all I can really ask for at this point. 

[Cattoy]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Troi and Riker are supposed to have some level of a psychic bond as Imzadi, at least per I think Encounter at Farpoint, even though it wasn't really developed during the rest of the series.

So if they do go the route of it being "Troi," hopefully it is quickly exposed. Then again, another Changeling could pose as Kestra.

That's what I was thinking would happen. He'd try to connect with her mentally, and then realize it's a trick when he can't. He'll tell her the wrong location or something to buy time. But that would take good writing. Given the track record so far this season, I think they'll stick with her as the damsel in distress. Not holding my breath for a mention of Kestra being with her grandmother or uncle - would give them a hand clap if they could actually remember Troi has a little brother.

Both the smoking and addiction story lines are stupid. It's canon that addiction is treatable, and even the do-anything-to-make-a-buck, er, gold-pressed-latinum Ferengi were shocked that cancer-causing products could be bought in the past. It's clearly not something that is common in the future.

I'm torn on the killer Tribbles. I loved the lovable fluffballs, but just the thought of how much terror they would inspire in the Klingon Empire ...

 

[marinw]

"Brothers and Sisters" Do Changelings even have genders or was Vadic speaking in metaphors?

Wasn't the OG Enterprise destroyed? Or was that the Enterprise A? My favourite Enterprise will always be the D becuase she was a freaking cruise ship where a person could explore space and fight the Borg in comfort.

It looks like some evil scientist combined a Tribble with one of those amoeba things from "Operation  Annihilate!" 

Geordi, you can't protect adult kids who have joined Starfleet. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by marinw

[Ottis]

Let down #1: The bad gal is going to go scorched Earth on Picard … within 72 hours? I know they have warp, but what’s that, 2 maybe 3 trips? Not very scorched Earth.

Let down #2: Jack isn’t something interesting. He just has the same thing J-L has. Huge miss here.

Let down #3: We go on a side trip to R & D vs. have far more interesting conflicts with changelings in disguise.

That’s a lot of let down’s for 15 minutes in so far.

They are doing well with the fan service. The rest is inconsistent. One thing that puzzles me about Picard the show is its Data fetish. I have watched ST for 50 years, including all of TNG. Data was a main character but IMO was way down the pecking order. This show always seems to reveal him like the way ST:TMP revealed the Enterprise in dry dock.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ottis

[Stardancer Supreme]

31 minutes ago, marinw said:

Goerdi, you can't protect adult kids who have joined Starfleet. 

 

 

 

I mean, Sydney and Alandra put themselves "in danger" the moment they joined Starfleet... What's in Hangar 12, Geordi?  I wonder if the changelings were planning to replace Geordi, since he is the one shooting down the "have the ENTIRE Fleet in one spot for Frontier Day!" idea...

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I can't remember, did we actually see Data die or is that something that happened off camera? I guess if they really wanted to get "Data" back in some capacity they had to account for Brent Spiner aging.

I thought they were just going to steal the war bird itself and fly back to Dastrom. Or it even would have been cool if they'd stolen Kirk's Enterprise or even Voyager, because it had older tech and couldn't be tracked the same way Titan is.

 

 

 

Data died the second time in the first season of Star Trek Picard. 

I figure the mothballed ships in the Fleet museum will play a part in the final battle.  Whose bright idea was it to have Starfleet ships communicate with each other independently and why didn't EngineerCaptain Shaw know that? Who is the Chief Engineer of the Titan?!?!?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Stardancer Supreme

[marinw]

Not only is the Titan's Cheif Engineer MIA, but Shaw has been reduced to a secondary character. He doesn't seem to be doing much captianing and is letting Picard and Seven call the shots.

Edited March 24, 2023 by marinw

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

The entirety of Troi's dialogue being "Oh, Will" sent me back to the 1960s. Quite a feat, as I was not alive then. 

I wonder if Marina is unhappy with how her character is being written.  I know I'm disappointed.   Mr. Chat is rewatching the old Lost In Space episodes and we shake our heads as the women on that show were relegated to cleaning the ship and fixing the meals.  Sigh.

I want to see Troi as the strong, independent Starfleet officer we've come to know and love!!  

[Francie]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Despite its flaws, I'm still not really surprised that there has been more positive responses elsewhere and I don't think it's just better marketing.  Nostalgia really can be a hell of a drug and I think having the original Next Generation crew back really has pleased fans in ways the other seasons haven't.  Hell, even knowing this, I can't deny that seeing Patrick Stewart interact with his old cast/friends again does bring a different energy to the proceedings that I find extremely enjoyable. 

What I'm seeing on twitter is a bit different than what you're describing. I'm seeing over-the-top accolades for the writing and "story." On top of that is the near-deification of Matalas. It's like the show is non-existent or it's an "11" on a scale of 10.  There's no in-between. 

Many, if not most, of the viewers who are bathing in the warm milk of nostalgia seem to be Star Trek universe (Berman edition) fans. Two points seems to hit with viewers this week -- 7 of 9 waxing nostalgic about the voyager ship and Geordi's return. That's fine if this season was sold as Voyager-Deep Space Nine-The Next Generation revisit. For this TNG fan, anyway, I've never seen Voyager or Deep Space Nine, and those moments are as dull as watching painting dry. 

I've see a lot of disappointment by my fellow TNG (first or only) fans who were lured back by all the press by the 7 TNG cast members. There's frustration that, for some of these returning characters, it's been nothing more than glorified cameos. For other characters, it's been bizarre character choices that don't ring true. And, for all of those seven characters, there's annoyance at the  verbal atrocities they've had to spout as dialogue. 

I'll give one example. Riker telling Picard "that's an EXCELLENT use of burgle as a verb." What a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid line. Whenever you have a character say some version of "Good one, Sir," that's supposed to say something about the character saying it. Smithers saying it to Burns on the Simpsons means he's a suck up and brownnoser. Niles on the Nanny saying it is supposed to show his contempt for whatever character's been insulted. But here, it was just supposed to mean that Picard said something clever. And that's for the audience, and not Riker, to decide. Having Riker say that line just masturbatory on the writer's part -- and on the show runners' part for allowing it. They were patting themselves on the back. They were taking a bow for doing nothing more than not using one of the 100 most commonly used words in the English language. What a fucking low bar they have set for themselves. 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Francie
punctuation

[Chit Chat]

7 minutes ago, Francie said:

Riker telling Picard "that's an EXCELLENT use of burgle as a verb." What a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid line.

I didn't understand Riker's response either.  Admiral  Picard is as eloquent as they come, so it's not like he looked at his word-of-the-day calendar and suddenly discovered the word 'burgle.'  I would expect that he would use that word.

7 minutes ago, Francie said:

For other characters, it's been bizarre character choices that don't ring true. And, for all of those seven characters, there's annoyance at the  verbal atrocities they've had to spout as dialogue. 

I see what you're saying.  I'm disappointed in how they've written Troi; I was disappointed in how Riker treated Admiral Picard while in the heat of the battle while on the bridge; and I don't buy it that Worf is now a pacifist.  He doesn't have to be a cold-blooded killer, but jeez, it's Worf.  The writers have basically neutered him.   I'm disappointed in how Dr. Crusher hid her son from Jean-Luc.  I love the show and am willing to overlook these things, but some of the writing choices bug me.  

[FloatOn]

17 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I wonder if Marina is unhappy with how her character is being written.  I know I'm disappointed.   Mr. Chat is rewatching the old Lost In Space episodes and we shake our heads as the women on that show were relegated to cleaning the ship and fixing the meals.  Sigh.

I want to see Troi as the strong, independent Starfleet officer we've come to know and love!!  

I saw it posted somewhere else that she said on some Star Trek Cruise a few weeks ago that she didn't like the nagging wife flashback and being left out of the action at the beginning. They said she seemed happy with whatever is coming with the Riker and Deanna stuff and their family and the TNG reunion scenes.

This episode was again just fine for me. Leaned way too into the fan service lane for me. I don't need a million references and callbacks to stuff I can see anytime. It's so lazy. 

I think that's the real Deanna. Wouldn't he able to tell that's not her because of their connection? Their reactions seemed very genuine so I don't think they were faking. Plus, spoilers from the Ready Room clip for next week, 

Spoiler

Amanda Plummer tells the floating head that the two associates of Picard that they captured (ie Riker and Deanna) are loyal to Picard and won't give them anything. If it was a changeling, she would have just said Riker wouldn't give them anything.

Mostly I was just happy to see Geordi again. 

[dwmarch]

Daystrom Station is weird. Is it a research lab or a museum? Why are these important pieces of secret technology on display with convenient signs posted so the enemies know what to steal? Why guards that come and go on a schedule? Why use some Frankenstein version of Data for defense? Why did Moriarty miss when he was shooting at them and why were the guards so disorganized? The place got broken into recently!

I know Data can be literal sometimes but instead of saying JEAN LUC PICARD over and over again, why does he not say YOUR CORPSE instead? And if you can make some special sauce of Picard's remains, why would you leave James T. Kirk behind? Genesis 2.0 seems like it would be a more effective weapon than a portal device too.

I guess the Bounty's cloaking device works for the same reason characters in Wonder Woman 1984 were able to steal a fully fueled jet from a museum. I wish someone would have mentioned the idea of taking the Defiant or one of the other ships and then Geordi could have said no, we took the [TECH] out because of course we did but a Bird of Prey's cloaking device doesn't have any parts on it we can do that with so we left it intact because we did [TECH] to the ship and we don't care if someone cloaks it while it's sitting in the dock. If/when that happens we just chuck bottles of Chateau Picard at it until we can see it again.

The cloak on the Defiant is a newer model and it's also already compatible with Starfleet systems so I am left to believe Jack stole the Klingon one for the cool factor and/or to impress Worf. Star Trek is becoming a little more like Star Wars in this regard. It doesn't really matter which ship you are on. As long as it has power it can do whatever you need it to do.

So is that it for Moriarty then? I thought he was actually going to have a role to play. As in, Lore would be behind all the shenanigans and when the crew ran out of ideas someone would suggest busting Moriarty out since he defeated Data back in the day.

[Cthulhudrew]

Someone decided to saddle Riker with all the bad dialogue and one-liners this episode.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Cthulhudrew

[Maverick]

 The original Defiant with a cloaking device was destroyed in Tacking Into the Wind near the end of DS9.  The station received a new production line Defiant class ship right before the finale, the Sao Paulo which was rechristened Defiant.  That's what would be in the museum. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

34 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Daystrom Station is weird. Is it a research lab or a museum? Why are these important pieces of secret technology on display with convenient signs posted so the enemies know what to steal? Why guards that come and go on a schedule? Why use some Frankenstein version of Data for defense? Why did Moriarty miss when he was shooting at them and why were the guards so disorganized? The place got broken into recently!

I know Data can be literal sometimes but instead of saying JEAN LUC PICARD over and over again, why does he not say YOUR CORPSE instead? And if you can make some special sauce of Picard's remains, why would you leave James T. Kirk behind? Genesis 2.0 seems like it would be a more effective weapon than a portal device too.

 

As far as DataLoreSoong is aware, he was merely answering the question posed to him.  I didn't think that DLS would have been so verbose right after being reactivated, so it was a simple answer for him.  I feel that we (the audience AND the Original TNG/Titan group assembled) were supposed to assume that DLS was glitching, which made DLS go "Let me show these bammas what I meant; I'm tired of repeating myself".  It would have been a little too on the nose for DLS to answer, "The remains of Jean-Luc Picard."  Speaking of which, did Picard make arrangements for his body's resting place? I can't believe he just left his original body on the Synth planet once he left with Soji. I would have made sure to have that interred at the Chateau!

[Tyro49]

I suppose that Picard didn't know that his body was at the Daystrom Institute; the Picards surely had a family plot or mausoleum or something. I thought all the Borg technology had been removed from him when he was rescued, so how can he be used as a weapon? Why have Kirk's body? Because he came from the Nexus?

Tribble always reacted that way to Klingons; we just never saw it from that angle before.

I thought they were going to steal the bird of prey.

 

[paigow]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

Wasn't the OG Enterprise destroyed?

Yes... Kirk triggered the self destruct to kill most of the Klingons in Search For Spock

Enterprise A did survive the remaining TOS movies....   Generations introduced Enterprise B

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

 The original Defiant with a cloaking device was destroyed in Tacking Into the Wind near the end of DS9.  The station received a new production line Defiant class ship right before the finale, the Sao Paulo which was rechristened Defiant.  That's what would be in the museum. 

Did the Defiant-A not have a cloaking device?

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Someone decided to saddle Riker with all the bad dialogue and one-liners this episode.

Even our MVP Worf had to say some clunkers, such as that Data wasn’t “guarding the manifest, he is the manifest!” (so hackneyed) and “I will find him, Admiral.  I will bring William Riker home.”  (Who talks like that?)

I’m definitely not saying that all the dialogue is bad (Shaw and Worf get some entertaining stuff and Will has had some entertaining stuff), but there are stretches when I think it really should have gone through another edit or 10.

TNG is easily one of my top 10 favorite shows of all time, maybe top 5.  In that context, I am grading this season so far as “watchable, but disappointing.”  I like that they are giving characters not named Picard or Data something meaningful to do (unlike the movies), but I’m also often getting disappointed on what they are doing with them (Geordi being all grouchy and maybe not having been the greatest parent to Sidney?  Beverly being a weird liar?).  We’ll see, I guess.  🤷‍♀️

Edited March 24, 2023 by Peace 47