All Episodes Discussion

[MsJamieDornan]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:41 AM, iMonrey said:

I'm a little tired of the obligatory testimonials from friends and family, extolling the virtues of the murder victim. "She was so beloved, everyone loved her, everyone just wanted to be around her, she lit up a room," etc. Nobody ever goes "Yeah she was a real bitch, nobody liked her. It's a wonder she wasn't murdered sooner."

Sadly, my family would.

[kieyra]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:41 PM, iMonrey said:

Shannon's Story: I'm a little tired of the obligatory testimonials from friends and family, extolling the virtues of the murder victim. "She was so beloved, everyone loved her, everyone just wanted to be around her, she lit up a room," etc. Nobody ever goes "Yeah she was a real bitch, nobody liked her. It's a wonder she wasn't murdered sooner."

I only listen to the podcast version of these Dateline cases, but in a lot of cases (not all!) you can tell that the interviewees already know what's expected of them/are familiar with the show or at least the format. Sometimes it gets pretty blatant: "I always knew she would end up on Dateline" kinda stuff.

One I listened to recently, couldn't tell you for a million dollars which one it was, but the interviewee (I think it may have been the accused in this case) kept calling the host by name. "(Josh/Keith/Whomever), I would never do anything like that."

And for the rest, they get 'produced' ... "And how did that make you feel? [when you came home and found the bloody murdered corpse of your loved one]?"

(I realize I have no room to be snarky since I am, after all, an audience for true crime media. And I know in many or most cases these family members are legitimately seeking closure, awareness, etc.)

[UsernameFatigue]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:17 AM, iMonrey said:

Hometown Hero could easily have been an hour, but then that's true of most of the two hour episodes. I knew about five minutes in it was the ex-wife. Isn't it always? Pretty much, whenever an ex is mentioned up front, that's the perp. And yet another case of head-smacking injustice, she'll probably only serve ten years for having her ex-husband killed just so she could buy more jewelry and fancy clothes. Yeesh.

I have seen this case before, and figured it was on Dateline and they were just repackaging it as a new episode, as they have done before. But maybe it was on 20/20 or 48 Hours? In any case yes, it was obvious early on that it was the ex wife. I skimmed though the episode, and the only thing that took be a bit by surprise was his mother having a celebration at his grave site, including the small fireworks tribute, because he loved the sound of fireworks. The pop-pop-pop of the fireworks startled me, because that is the last sound her son heard when he was shot to death, as heard on his 911 call. 

[TVbitch]

In Hometown Hero the guy calls 911, you can hear him scream and a bunch of shots, but because he didn't answer when the dispatcher kept saying "hello? hello?" they did not follow up. I mean, W.T.F.?

In Black Box, I think he did it, but the botched police handling of the crime scene pretty much destroyed most of the evidence. 

[UsernameFatigue]

17 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I'm confused by The Black Box. I didn't think the evidence was very compelling, and didn't expect the husband to be found guilty. I wonder if there was something they left out. 

Dateline first showed this episode back in March 2020. I didn't re watch the episode, but did look back at the posts regarding it here, which start on page 138. I reread many of the posts, including my own to refresh my memory. I thought he was guilty then, and don't think re watching the episode would change my mind. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by UsernameFatigue

[HunterHunted]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:02 AM, BusyOctober said:

I am in no way blaming the friends, but I wish one of them had reported that asshole was basically living in Lauren’s dorm.  Maybe things have changed, but when I was in college, even if your BF/ GF was a student at the school, having an extra person “squatting” in the room ( beyond the occasional weekend visit)  was not allowed.  You could lose your own housing as a consequence.

We had a girl squatting in her former dorm room after being kicked out of the dorms for some other violation. They called the campus police on her a couple of times; they'd escort her out of the building, but not do much more than that. She'd sneak back in and threaten to beat up whoever called the campus police on her. No one, not our RA or anyone else, narc'd on her because that bitch was crazy and dangerous. It's only when she stabbed another girl on the floor did the RA call the city police on the squatter. The RA was obviously in her own room during the phone call because the squatter was that dangerous. The squatter was tiny. I don't think she was more than 105 pounds, but it took 4 city police officers to subdue her AND she still managed to break free and kick a police officer and the residence hall director into a window which shattered. I don't blame my RA or the hall director. We told them; they called campus police. Campus police escorted her out. I blame the University, who kicked her out of the dorms, but still allowed her to remain a student, which gave her an opportunity to keep sneaking into the dorms and terrorizing us. At a certain point we all stopped saying anything because we were so afraid.

That's how I feel about reporting that Lauren’s gaslighting stalker was squatting in the dorms. There's nothing to indicate that campus police or the university would have taken that any more seriously than they took the much more serious reports they received later.

On 2/5/2021 at 8:28 AM, Ellee said:

ETA. I’m ancient.  Did all this shit happen before and we only know now because of the internet or has this world truly changed

It's literally about awareness. It's not even the internet; it's something that was born of cable news and the 24/7 news cycle. There's zero chance 40 years ago that a random disappearance of 2 kids in Idaho would have made the news in any place other than Idaho let alone the national news and yet we all know about Lori Daybell. 48 Hours premiered in 1988. Dateline in 1992. Court TV in 1991. The OJ Simpson trial began in 1994. All of this kind of stuff has always happened. We just never heard about it.

Even the idea that it's important to pay attention to all of the problematic past behaviors of a criminal is a relatively new idea. The FBI didn't start really paying attention to psychology until Hoover died in the early 70s because he thought it was bullshit. And loads of law enforcement officials refused to take any sex crimes seriously until about the 80s. The Trailside Killer molested 2 of his cousins. He was incarcerated for that. He attempted to murder his first known adult victim, who is Lisa Rinna's mother. He went to prison for 7 years. He got out, kidnapped, and raped a woman. He went to prison for 7 years for that. He went and killed 5 more women when he got out. 

The concept that we should be paying attention to any or all of these things is new, but people have been doing all of these types of things for a very long time.

[Fable]

Last night’s episode Murderer at Large was interesting and one I hadn’t seen before.  At least it wasn’t the usual spousal murder.  I thought the killer was smarmy, and I didn’t believe a word coming out of his mouth during the interview with him at the end. 

While I find it unfortunate for her ex that so much of his life was tainted by all the suspicions surrounding him, I really didn’t like him much.  He obviously was verbally abusive, and why in the hell take and sell her car and other trinkets, seemingly without her permission.  Oh, and when he was lamenting that he couldn’t get or hold a job due to his long hair, I said well you know there is a simple solution to that, slacker. 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Fable said:

Last night’s episode Murderer at Large was interesting and one I hadn’t seen before.  At least it wasn’t the usual spousal murder.  I thought the killer was smarmy, and I didn’t believe a word coming out of his mouth during the interview with him at the end. 

Ugh, yeah, he made my skin crawl during that interview. Always some sort of excuse or defense for his behavior. 

He was terrifying. Those pictures of his wife were so hard to look at. 

Quote

While I find it unfortunate for her ex that so much of his life was tainted by all the suspicions surrounding him, I really didn’t like him much.  He obviously was verbally abusive, and why in the hell take and sell her car and other trinkets, seemingly without her permission.  Oh, and when he was lamenting that he couldn’t get or hold a job due to his long hair, I said well you know there is a simple solution to that, slacker. 

My mom said the same thing. 

I did find it funny that there was all the talk of how people in that town loved country music, but didn't like guys with long hair. So....what, do they not listen to Willie Nelson, then? 

[TVbitch]

Hey now, he apologized for doing anything that hurt anybody, so I guess it's all good. 12 years total for the rape, torture, murder of Susan and for beating the crap out of his wife. That's absurd.

[Ashforth]

3 hours ago, Fable said:

While I find it unfortunate for her ex that so much of his life was tainted by all the suspicions surrounding him...

Unfortunate? Unfortunate to be accused of murder and under a cloud of suspicion for most of his life? Unfortunate?

He may have been a user, he may have been a whiner about how his long hair and outsider-ness kept him from holding fast food jobs, he may have been a crappy musician and a dick, but none of that justifies the authorities failing to do a reasonable investigation to find the murderer and holding him out publicly as the likely culprit for years and years.

If I was wrongfully accused of murder, I would not consider it to to be "unfortunate."

[Fable]

46 minutes ago, Ashforth said:

Unfortunate? Unfortunate to be accused of murder and under a cloud of suspicion for most of his life? Unfortunate?

He may have been a user, he may have been a whiner about how his long hair and outsider-ness kept him from holding fast food jobs, he may have been a crappy musician and a dick, but none of that justifies the authorities failing to do a reasonable investigation to find the murderer and holding him out publicly as the likely culprit for years and years.

If I was wrongfully accused of murder, I would not consider it to to be "unfortunate."

Yes, unfortunate.  If he had been imprisoned for the crime, I would consider that tragic, but he continued to live his life without consequence, so unfortunate is the best I can muster.  Could the police have done a better job...maybe, but the police had plenty of reasons to look at him, and without the benefit of recent technology, they had little else to go on, so I can’t really fault them for failing to solve the case right away.  They did say they had put him on a backburner after a while too, so it's not like they spent all that time pursuing and harassing him.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by Fable

[UsernameFatigue]

While it is too bad that the ex was considered the murderer by Susan's friends and family, it is hardly unusual. We have seen cases where families have been sure that the ex is the murderer, and even after the real killer has been found, they still believe that the ex did it. 

What I didn't understand is how her family won a civil case against the ex? It was known that he sold her car within a day or so of her murder, and was 1,000 miles away from the murder scene. What evidence did they have to convict him? I know it is easier to win a civil case than a criminal one, but still.......

The shocker in this case for me was finding out at the end that the killer was one of Susan's best friend's first cousin. Yikes. 

[Kelly]

Opps! Wrong thread...

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Kelly

[amarante]

On 1/11/2021 at 6:03 AM, BusyOctober said:

Why is it that almost every murderer on these shows is introduced as “smart”?  They may think they are the smartest guy/gal in the room, but they usually end up doing the dumbest shit that gets them caught.  

Well if they were that smart, they wouldn't be arrested.

I think they are called *smart* because the nature of Deadline shows is that the perps aren't your standard street thug who kills someone during a simple robbery or over a drug transaction or even a heat of passion jealousy. They wouldn't be on the show unless there was some twist in which the perp - more or less successfully managed to elude detection in some way for some amount of time.

[Irlandesa]

On 2/13/2021 at 3:01 PM, Fable said:

I would consider that tragic, but he continued to live his life without consequence, so unfortunate is the best I can muster. 

I wouldn't say it was without consequence.  He had a 700K judgment against him.  The only good thing, for him, is that the internet didn't exist so true crime fanatics wouldn't obsess over him getting away with murder and future employers or girlfriends wouldn't have his name come up in association with an unsolved murder.

Quote

Could the police have done a better job...maybe, but the police had plenty of reasons to look at him, and without the benefit of recent technology, they had little else to go on, so I can’t really fault them for failing to solve the case right away. 

They had reasons to look at him but it seemed like kind of stretch to stop with him.  And I have to say, I do think the cops did a terrible job with the 16 year old rape victim who wasn't believed the first time she was raped by the perp and didn't think to investigate what she told them about him bragging that he had already murdered.  It's not like he killed some random woman.  He killed his sister's friend. 

But she was a 16 year "slut" who they could keep saying was making up her sexual abuse claims because they were too lazy to try and prove them. 

So while it might have been a stretch to look at her friend's younger brother as the perp and I don't blame them for that, I think it's criminal negligence that they couldn't work backwards once they identified him as a violent person. 

Or well....didn't because we all know how underage girls are at fault for being victimized by older adults.

[12catcrazy]

This past Dateline got me all kinds of upset and angry.   Stupid myopic cop who just "knows" that the victim's husband killed her, even though he lived 1000 miles away.    I'm the first one to say "the spouse/SO did it" and I understand that in many murders, the spouse did do it, but ok, once that option doesn't start to look so good, start looking elsewhere please.  Don't get so locked into that tunnel vision that you can't/won't look into anybody else.   If that 2nd cop hadn't decided to keep going with this case, the murderer would have probably totally gotten away with it and wouldn't have even spent the slap on the wrist 12 years behind bars. 

And don't even get me started on the good old boy white male worldview where teenaged girls pretty much deserve to be beaten and raped because they sleep around and somehow "deserve" it and the guy who did it gets off scott free because well, she wanted to cause trouble for him.   I guess she wanted those black eyes and to be threatened with death.   Makes you wonder what the case would've been had it been some black guy selling drugs in Texas back then - betcha 25 to life.  And if it had been a "3rd Strike" - life without parole.  

Back in the early 90s, my sister and I were meeting a friend for drinks (this was in NYC).  Our friend brought along a young woman who he thought we'd enjoy meeting.    She was my age and we were having drinks and conversing.   She was originally from a small town in Oregon, and because I have "one of those faces", she told me a story.   About 10 years prior, she was still living in her home town and was working at a job where she had a fellow worker who seemed like a nice guy.  They became friends and he invited her to his house for dinner.   She accepted and had a nice time, until after dinner he told her that he wanted to sleep with her.  She refused and said that she thought they were friends and wanted to keep it that way.   He proceeded to then attack her, beat the hell out of her and raped her.    She called the police, they arrested the guy and took her to the hospital where photos were taken.    When this peach of a guy came up in front of the judge, the judge dropped the rape charge, saying that by going to his house for dinner, she was "tacitly agreeing to sex".    He couldn't really drop the assault charges, as the photos showed how badly beaten she was, but she told me that the guy barely got a slap on the wrist and served no jail time.   That was  just one of the reasons she decided to leave Oregon.     And from what I saw and heard in my years living in America's heartland, I'm sure that what happened to her and that teenager in Texas was not all that uncommon.  

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, 12catcrazy said:

Back in the early 90s, my sister and I were meeting a friend for drinks (this was in NYC).  Our friend brought along a young woman who he thought we'd enjoy meeting.    She was my age and we were having drinks and conversing.   She was originally from a small town in Oregon, and because I have "one of those faces", she told me a story.   About 10 years prior, she was still living in her home town and was working at a job where she had a fellow worker who seemed like a nice guy.  They became friends and he invited her to his house for dinner.   She accepted and had a nice time, until after dinner he told her that he wanted to sleep with her.  She refused and said that she thought they were friends and wanted to keep it that way.   He proceeded to then attack her, beat the hell out of her and raped her.    She called the police, they arrested the guy and took her to the hospital where photos were taken.    When this peach of a guy came up in front of the judge, the judge dropped the rape charge, saying that by going to his house for dinner, she was "tacitly agreeing to sex".    He couldn't really drop the assault charges, as the photos showed how badly beaten she was, but she told me that the guy barely got a slap on the wrist and served no jail time.   That was  just one of the reasons she decided to leave Oregon.     And from what I saw and heard in my years living in America's heartland, I'm sure that what happened to her and that teenager in Texas was not all that uncommon.  

Holy shit, fuck that sorry excuse for a judge. Even if she was agreeing to sex, she still has the right to stop any intimate activity at anytime, and none of what she does or doesn't do when she goes over there is justification for him raping her. 

That's infuriating. I'm sorry she went through that. Sounds like a valid enough reason to leave to me. 

[12catcrazy]

4 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Holy shit, fuck that sorry excuse for a judge. Even if she was agreeing to sex, she still has the right to stop any intimate activity at anytime, and none of what she does or doesn't do when she goes over there is justification for him raping her. 

That's infuriating. I'm sorry she went through that. Sounds like a valid enough reason to leave to me. 

Yeah, I heard that story 30 years ago and I still think about it.   I really hope #Metoo has changed things but this country seems to have such a huge streak of misogyny that I wonder how much better it will get.   The current obsession with looks and how young girls are comparing themselves to photoshopped perfection seems to be another form of it.   Yeah, and I know that girls/women have always wanted to be fashionable and be beautiful, but with 24/7 media and Influencers, and Instagram, it just seems that it's harder to measure up and it's a good way to keep females in their place.  It's just so deep in our culture that I fear it's going to be slow going really getting rid of it.  

[patty1h]

Here's my take on Datelines 3-parter "The Widower".   Usually, I will do a Google search and look for news on the Dateline case being presented, but I'm going to let this one play out and follow along with the program - I'll wait for the reveal.  However, after viewing part 1, this guy is textbook for "the husband did it" from what they've shown so far.  But we know how Dateline sometimes throws in a curveball, so if in part 3 we find out that this guy is innocent, my mind will be blown.

Edited February 19, 2021 by patty1h

[Irlandesa]

I think he did it.  Didn't they say he has four dead wives? 

I'm not sure how I feel about the format.  I really wasn't all that engaged. 

[Annber03]

I saw this story on an episode of "On the Case with Paula Zahn" once. I won't spoil it for anyone who's not familiar with the story. I will just say it is a hell of a ride. 

I do find it a bit odd that they feel this is a story that needs to be told over the course of three different nights-the Paula Zahn one managed to do it in an hour-but perhaps there'll be more information shared here that wasn't in the episode I saw. I did like the bit where the detectives met with Mike's family. I feel so bad for them. 

And the way the one detective just sat there quietly after they played the interrogation clip of Tom asking about the one guy's wife and how good-looking she was...that pretty much said it all. 

[Melina22]

I found Part 1 very interesting. Thanks for not spoiling it, although it's pretty obvious he did it. 

What a strange looking man! And with so many dead wives, I know it's going to be yet one more case of "How on earth do people get away with this stuff?" Surely with Google it must be getting harder. 

It was chilling to hear that he planned the murder before the marriage. Literally every moment of their relationship was a lie leading to her death. He is truly evil. 

[Annber03]

9 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

.What a strange looking man! And with so many dead wives, I know it's going to be yet one more case of "How on earth do people get away with this stuff?" Surely with Google it must be getting harder. 

Seriously, he must be one HELL of a smooth talker or something, 'cause it really is confusing to see how someone like him managed to hook so many women. 

It takes a lot of chutzpah to sue the city for prosecuting you for your second wife's death after you've spent eighteen months in jail for trying to kill the guy you hoped to hire as a hit man to kill her. And he won that lawsuit, no less. Amazing. That would certainly explain a large part of why the investigators wanted to make sure they had an absolutely airtight case regarding his involvement in his last wife's death before they arrested him. Last thing they needed was him escaping and getting away with it yet again. 

And that interview clip after he was found not guilty. "He's going to kill someone else's daughter someday...". I can only imagine what her reaction must've been when she heard about the other deaths that followed. 

Also, I'd never heard that Rod Stewart song they played a snippet of tonight, but...wow. Um. Yeah. That was disturbing. 

[UsernameFatigue]

Wow. Just when I think I have seen everything with regards to true crime stories.....I haven't. 

My first thought in part one was "Why would a hair dresser be attracted to a man with a rat's nest for a hair style"? Then I was wondering about all the footage they were showing from 2008. Did Dateline do a story then, and now is just reshowing it without the interviewer parts? It was interesting to see the cops in 2008, and now. On a purely shallow note, the LV cop was/is gorgeous. He rivals Matt Murphy, and that is a high bar.

Part Two? Wow again. It is a bit misleading when they kept referring to four dead wives, when one died a year after she divorced Tom, of cancer. But definitely one wife was murdered, and two died under suspicious circumstances. When Tom was found not guilty of murdering his second wife, but then convicted for trying to have his former friend and witness killed, I turned to my hubby and said that the jury must have felt bad for not convicting him of murder. But then Tom managed to sue the police department and prosecution office, and won. WTH? 

Another head shaker was why there was no autopsy when his (I think, I have lost count) fifth wife died in hospital after heart surgery. WTF again. My father died in hospital after heart surgery, and you had better believe that there was an autopsy. We were not given a choice, and I am shocked that Tom was. 

The best part of the whole three hours was Tom being tasered and dragged out into the cold and snow, wearing only his boxers and socks. I enjoyed it so much I rewound it twice. The only satisfying part of the whole three hours so far. I watch Paula Zahn, but don't remember this case. I have no problem with watching another two hours though - I can't imagine covering this story in a standard one hour or even two hour episode. 

[Ellee]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp-video/mmvo101297221796

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Ellee

[TVbitch]

What a piece of trash psycopath. The only mystery here is "can they convict him?" 

I also was not really engaged with this presentation format. Is this because of COVID, or is Dateline trying to become more stylized like the HBO/Netflix true crime serials? I hope not the latter. Although I do watch some of those, my preference has always been the storytelling of Dateline.*

*By Josh, Denis, and Keith ...Andrea not so much! : D

[Melina22]

56 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

also was not really engaged with this presentation format. Is this because of COVID, or is Dateline trying to become more stylized like the HBO/Netflix true crime serials? I hope not the latter. Although I do watch some of those, my preference has always been the storytelling of Dateline.*

Stylized is the perfect word. What with the theme song and logo and the catchy sound bites, I was cringing trying to imagine how I'd feel if this show was about the death of my loved one. I'd be horrified to see my tragedy turned into a fun watch for bored people. 

I admit I sometimes feel guilty about watching these shows. I always picture the families also watching and hope they're okay with what they see. 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

What a piece of trash psycopath. The only mystery here is "can they convict him?" 

I also was not really engaged with this presentation format. Is this because of COVID, or is Dateline trying to become more stylized like the HBO/Netflix true crime serials? I hope not the latter. Although I do watch some of those, my preference has always been the storytelling of Dateline.*

*By Josh, Denis, and Keith ...Andrea not so much! : D

It appears from what I have read, that an investigative producer for Dateline has been following this story since 2008. His name is Dan Slepian, and he is the one filming the interviews with family, and all of the footage of Tom including when he clears his stuff out of Sharon's house, and when Tom is arrested at his mother's house. So I guess that is why it is not the typical Dateline format with one of the hosts.  I definitely prefer the host format, but am still finding the episodes fascinating. 

38 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Stylized is the perfect word. What with the theme song and logo and the catchy sound bites, I was cringing trying to imagine how I'd feel if this show was about the death of my loved one. I'd be horrified to see my tragedy turned into a fun watch for bored people. 

I admit I sometimes feel guilty about watching these shows. I always picture the families also watching and hope they're okay with what they see. 

 

I think that for the most part the true crime shows these days are pretty respectful of the families when they interview them, And the families seem grateful to have their loved one not be forgotten, and the killer be exposed for the heinous person he/she is. I do though think that not that long ago, some journalists/interviewers were not as sensitive. An old interview we saw recently of Connie Chung asking a boy how he felt about his father possibly getting the death penalty was jaw dropping. I do think all of Dateline interviewers are good, as is Paula Zahn who has been doing her show for ages. 

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

What a piece of trash psycopath. The only mystery here is "can they convict him?" 

Spoiler alert...because yes, I goggled.

Spoiler

Courts ruled in December 2020 to grant him a new trial.  The lawyers must have brought info about Beckie into the trial about Sharon and Mike. Court ruled that information shouldn't have come in because he was acquitted.  He's still in jail for now.  Dateline's performing a public service: Women, stay away from this man!  Hopefully, these upcoming jurors will be smart.

I firmly believe that he killed Sharon, Beckie, and Frances.  Wonder how members of the Utah jury feel about now?

I LOVED Frances's cousin.  "Women end up dead.  He ends up with money." Cousin knows exactly what's what.

I miss our narrators, although I like these two cops very much.

[Ohmo]

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Seriously, he must be one HELL of a smooth talker or something, 'cause it really is confusing to see how someone like him managed to hook so many women.

How shall I put this? I think he targets women without a great deal of education.  Colleen (Sharon's daughter) seems like she's had some post-high school education. Sharon was a hairdresser, which is not college or community college.  Frances also did not give me the impression that she had had education beyond high school. Same with Gayna, and Kathy was 18 when she married him.  Gayna was the only one who put the pieces together fast enough and got out. I think Randolph picks women who are less likely to do what Gayna did.

[Irlandesa]

@Ohmo, thanks for the goggle. 😉

Spoiler

But OMG, delete for me.  I can't watch four hours about a serial killer who might get away with it.  Eek.

 

[Ohmo]

@Irlandesa
 

Spoiler

 

Source https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9061133/Black-widower-conviction-killing-wife-reversed.html

The jury didn't believe him. Part of the reason was that years earlier, in 1986, his second wife had also turned up dead from a gunshot wound to the head. 

He was cleared of that killing but evidence from that case was allowed to be presented at his second trial, including the fact that he inherited $500,000 in life insurance money from the first woman's death. 

Prosecutors said he was motivated to kill Causse to collect more than $360,000 in life insurance money from a policy she had taken out.  

But on December 9, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that the jury should never have been able to hear about that case. 

They overturned the decision and ruled that Randolph should get a new trial.

He will not be freed from prison in the meantime.

He reacted gleefully, telling podcast Killer Genes: 'I'm just as happy as can be because as I've told everybody - I didn't do this. "

 

 

[Melina22]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think that for the most part the true crime shows these days are pretty respectful of the families

Yes, most of the time this is true. I'm thinking particularly of the opening credits of the Widower series. That really makes me cringe. The families do appear to be treated fairly and respectfully though. 

[EtheltoTillie]

This guy was creeping me out in the promos and I didn’t want to devote so much time to it, so I’m glad you guys were able to provide me the info. 
 

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The families do appear to be treated fairly and respectfully though. 

I'm crossing my crime shows, but David Begnaud did a 48 Hours episode.  He and a producer talked about it later on Twitter.  Apparently, producers do a ton of advance work to see who will talk to them about a case...long before people sit with the talent like David, Josh, Andrea, Keith, Dennis, etc to be interviewed. People need to be treated respectfully because that's often how the relationships with producers are built. If no one will talk to them, the show is toast.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Ohmo

[Josiemae]

I'm (almost) embarrassed to admit how much I enjoyed how his arrest played out.

What a disgusting individual he is.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Josiemae

[Lizzing]

I watched the first two hours, and given that this is Dateline, I really REALLY wanted to know who was filming all of this in '08.  The documenatarian's POV is very important to understand POV & tone.

I also have very un-PC comments about the accused.  But I enjoy cancel culture, but don't want to be a part of it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I firmly believe that he killed Sharon, Beckie, and Frances.  Wonder how members of the Utah jury feel about now?

I wish we could have heard from some of the jury members in the 2nd wife's murder case. I suspect they thought he was guilty but didn't see enough evidence at the trial. We don't know what kind of case the defense presented, and what forensic or medical testimony may have corroborated the suicide claim. Otherwise, they were just plain dumb.

[Fable]

 

Along with having a strange and creepy personality, he also looks like Mr. Toad (I suppose I’m on a straight train to hell for thinking that), so I have no idea what his attraction exactly was.

What I do wonder about is how he continued to get away with his shit.  Six wives, four dead?  Okay, so one died of cancer after the marriage ended, but it sounds like he tried to, or did, put hits out on five of his wives. 

I’ve seen this before but not sure where, and I really don’t remember how it plays out, so I have been watching this.   When he was going on about his mistreatment by the police when he was arrested, I was convinced he was setting about another lawsuit. 

[Tabbygirl521]

I liked that the arresting officers were talking about taking the guy to the hospital for evaluation; I’m sure they knew he had a lawsuit in mind. “Tommy” had no idea how much they knew about him by then.

I was yelling at him for being such a whiner. Big tough guy. He was whimpering about having to hang onto the doorframe because of being “disabled” but wasn’t this shortly after we saw him looking perfectly upright and mobile as he retrieved his crap in Utah? 
 

also loved the officer saying “My safety is paramount” and “Tommy” looking annoyed at apparently not having a snappy comeback. 
 

I can’t wait until tonight. 

[Annber03]

Tom picked a lawyer that represented O.J. freaking Simpson. Because of course he did. My god, the cojones on this guy. It doesn't surprise me one bit that he's gone through a lot of lawyers. 

Also, literally no one cares about how many women you claim to have slept with, dude. Not a single person. Shut up. Good lord, I feel like I need a shower after listening to how he talked about women throughout this episode. Talk about delusional.

It's beyond maddening that he's got a new trial. I get that it can be risky to use people's pasts like that sometimes in trials, but in this case, everything with Beckie is very much relevant to what happened with Sharon. And the snarky way he talks about his wives really doesn't help his claims of innocence, either.

I hope the conviction stays. I want that nasty little cocky smirk to be knocked off his face once and for all. 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

I didn't read the spoilers posted above, because I already knew that Tom would be convicted, but then get a new trial because his previous murder trail was allowed in Sharon's trial. As soon as the judge ruled that the previous trail could be entered as evidence, I knew that would be the result. The sad thing is that I think they had enough to convict him without the previous trail, though of course you never know with juries. 

The first hour of this two part finale had way too much of Tom preening, but I did enjoy even his defense attorneys admitting what a PITA and narcissist he is. But hell, even Tom admitted proudly to being a narcissist. His statement that his children were his gift to the world? He is off his rocker. I was shocked to see his kids show up and talk about what a wonderful father he has been. Maybe he spent some of the money he acquired by killing wives and suing hospitals and police departments, on them. Because I know a couple of narcissists, and they are not capable of being good parents. They are too busy putting themselves first. Always.

More revelations about how sick he was, but having his step daughter testify that her father was a pedophile so her mother and Tom could retain custody of her. OMG. It did make me give Frances the side eye - even if she is dead - that she allowed that to happen.

I really liked Sharon's daughter Colleen, and feel the worst for her, that she will have to go through yet another trial. I hope the next trial finally puts a nail in Tom's coffin, but I won't hold my breath. 

[Annber03]

33 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The first hour of this two part finale had way too much of Tom preening

My mom, while watching, was like, "I think he's getting way more airtime than he really needs." Those interviews certainly exposed him for the creepy guy he was, but it was clear he was basking in the attention and the ego-stroking being on camera gave him, and. the last thing he needs is more focus on him. 

[arejay]

I’m probably going to hell for this, but whatever. If, God forbid, there is a movie made about this miscreant, Roseanne Barr would make the perfect Tommy. 

[MsJamieDornan]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

"I think he's getting way more airtime than he really needs."

Exactly !!   That must have been his trade off for letting them show his story. What a pathetic piece of sh-t !

[Albanyguy]

Considering his disdain for his lawyers and his belief that he's smarter than everybody in the world, I'm surprised that he didn't insist on acting as his own attorney and defending himself. I would have thought that he would have loved cross-examining witnesses and addressing the jury. Maybe he floated the idea and someone talked him out of it.

What I don't understand is how they kept him in jail for eight years awaiting trial. Doesn't that violate his Constitutional right to a speedy trial? Wouldn't his attorneys have fought that? Wouldn't some judge say at some point "Look, either bring this guy to trial or drop the charges, I can't keep him in jail forever"?

Or was it the defense team that dragged it out by constantly asking for postponements? If Dateline explained this, I must have missed it.

[BusyOctober]

19 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

What I don't understand is how they kept him in jail for eight years awaiting trial. Doesn't that violate his Constitutional right to a speedy trial? Wouldn't his attorneys have fought that? Wouldn't some judge say at some point "Look, either bring this guy to trial or drop the charges, I can't keep him in jail forever"?

Or was it the defense team that dragged it out by constantly asking for postponements? If Dateline explained this, I must have missed it.

I don’t know if this is right, but I think Randolph himself was the reason for the delays.  He kept firing his attorneys, so then the new batch of lawyers needed time to create their case...until he fired that team. Wash, rinse, repeat. Plus I think all the debate about getting Beckie’s murder (NOT suicide) brought in caused delays.   I think the DA was ready to go for years, so other than waiting for Randolph to be happy with his defense team, and pending the decision on I for from the Utah trial, I don’t believe the prosecution was to blame for this case dragging on.  As for why he stayed in jail all that time, I don’t know the law about remand or release pending trials.  But thank God whoever made those decisions kept his fat, greasy , stringy haired ass locked up.  
 

I was wondering about his children from his 1st marriage.  How unfortunate that the son looks exactly like his waste of human skin father.

My recording cut off, so I missed when the next trial will be.  I hope he’s convicted again and all the people he has destroyed can have one moments peace of mind.  That fucker should die a slow painful death behind bars.s

[Ellee]

Are defense lawyers required to take on a ‘Randolph’?   I can’t imagine having to accept him as a client. 

 

[SnarkAttack]

Three episodes was WAY too much; they drag these Datelines out sooo much.

I wonder not only about an autopsy not being performed on Frances, but also why Tom didn't run out of the room when she flatlined, yelling for someone to help.  Isn't that what a normal person would do?

 

[Melina22]

10 hours ago, arejay said:

I’m probably going to hell for this, but whatever. If, God forbid, there is a movie made about this miscreant, Roseanne Barr would make the perfect Tommy. 

I was coming here to say exactly this!! I'm watching the scene where his long hair is in pigtails, and he looks exactly like a heavier, less attractive Roseanne Barr. 

It annoys me that he's been allowed to manipulate the system for so long. I'll never understand why malignant narcissists get away with so much.