S08.E04: Clavicles Are the New Black

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz rejects Dayron's kiss, sets a date with an older man and faces the question of whether she's asexual; just as soon as Jeanette finds a way to let her daughter go, Jazz's anxiety boils over; Jaclyn and Tyler meet a transgender icon.

Original air date 2023.02.14

[Onefineday]

I miss Jazz's friend Noelle, I'd like to see her back on the show.

[TomGirl]

Jazz just seemed to be sleepwalking through that entire last episode.  Very flat affect.  I wonder if she’s depressed or just bored to death, as I am becoming.  Same old, same old…

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

"Hi, here are my two oldest friends in the pool - and here are my new sparkly TRANS friends who I have to talk to the ENTIRE TIME while I ignore my old friends". 

I was amused and disturbed by her new friends who were getting Botoxed and boobed at such a young age, yet they were so judgmental about dating guys. And poor Jazz is just sitting at the side of the pool in the hot Florida sun burning up in her muumuu with her long hair and a full face of makeup with the two skinny model types.  Why doesn't she buy some less billowy outfits that make her look frumpy and miserable? 

I have older grown daughters and I don't ever remember discussing their sex lives with them or other people (except for the contraception/STD speech). That Jeanette worries out loud about this is really bizarre. 

[princelina]

Yes - it's like they have to drag in some girls Jazz has known all her life to sit there and look bored during the "trans" conversation - so we won't think they all obsess about it 24/7?  Too late; we already think that.  And while I don't have kids, I have nieces, and friends with kids, and was a teen and young adult myself at one time, and I know people go on dates with "nice guys" they decide they're not really into, and no one ever jumps straight to "maybe you're asexual!"  But then when Jazz came in and announced she may be "demisexual" I decided that they just wanted to have a conversation using all of the "terms" 😄

[Bastet]

11 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

"Hi, here are my two oldest friends in the pool - and here are my new sparkly TRANS friends who I have to talk to the ENTIRE TIME while I ignore my old friends". 

I didn't watch, but a friend just ranted about that in an email this morning.  And that she got up and walked away in the middle of all that to go video chat with some dating app guy.  I know it's all scheduled for filming, not natural interaction, but how rude.

My friend also said Jeanette was "Oh, I hope not" horrified by someone asking if Jazz's lack of enthusiasm about dating might stem from her being asexual.  WTactualF?!  There's nothing wrong with being asexual, just as there's nothing wrong with being straight, gay, pansexual, bi, etc.  If someone whose kid was behaving in ways that might indicate being transgender was asked "Do you think [kid] might be transgender?" and reacted with a horrified, "I hope not!" Jeanette would lose her shit.

Going back to her old friends, were any of them among the girls we always used to see her with in the first season?  I've wondered if she's still friends with any of them.

[Salacious Kitty]

Jaclyn, formerly known as Jojo, is a returnee. But as she stated she wants to move to LA to model, her appearance is pretty obviously for personal gain.

[princelina]

Yeah they said in the first episode that they hadn't seen each other in a few years.  I wish they would give an update on Noelle.

[BAForever]

On 2/15/2023 at 7:18 PM, Salacious Kitty said:

Jaclyn, formerly known as Jojo, is a returnee. But as she stated she wants to move to LA to model, her appearance is pretty obviously for personal gain.

Yes, she said she wanted to continue being an (gag) influencer. 

Both women looked "modelesque", and I know some influencers make a good income, but the market is flooded with these people. Risky career moves IMO.

And why LA? South Florida has a vibrant diverse culture with lots of job opportunities. Not sure which is more expensive, but LA isn't cheap.

[mmecorday]

I find it so sad that these young women in Jazz's social circle find it necessary to get Botox. 

[Onecattoo]

Jazz says she’s the person she is today because of Jeanette - this is so true! Jeanettes own mental health issues have affected Jazz profoundly, as she continually questions every move Jazz makes, verbalizes such negativity and worries excessively.  She admits her own behavior is a problem, but refuses to change it.  Both of them need therapy, and more than anything Jeanette needs to cut her codependency ties to Jazz.  Ari, Greg and one of the twins seem relatively competent, I can’t fathom how none of them see the issue. 

[bichonblitz]

Is Jazz going to freak out every time she has a date? 

The preview for next week is going to be interesting. Jazz talking about taking a gap year off from Harvard. To do what? Can't wait to hear her plan and see Jeanette lose her shit. 

 

[Salacious Kitty]

Jazz already took a gap year. She's a 21 year old sophomore. At this rate, she won't graduate until she's 30. 🙄

[LeesburgLee]

19 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jazz already took a gap year. She's a 21 year old sophomore. At this rate, she won't graduate until she's 30. 🙄

If she takes another gap year, will we have to go through all the drama of “will I get readmitted” again? Nobody needs that again.

[Meow Mix]

If that is the case, would Harvard finally tell her to forget it?  I thought the whole point of them making sure she was ready before readmitting her was so that she wouldn't wash out again.  I hope it's just for show content and that she continues her education and gets the heck away from her wacko mother and brother.

[Onefineday]

It would have been interesting if they had filmed Jazz's first month at Harvard with Jeanette hovering over her.  I bet it was a real disaster. 

Jazz would do much better without having to film the show but I have a feeling it's Jeanette and Sander that push her to keep the show alive. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Onefineday said:

Jazz would do much better without having to film the show but I have a feeling it's Jeanette and Sander that push her to keep the show alive. 

Back when the first season was filming but had not yet aired, Jazz was already feeling the pressure of being a public figure due to the book's success.  She'd think maybe it was best to retreat into a private life, her parents would say they support that if it's what she wants, and then she'd hear from someone whose life was utterly transformed by reading the book/having their classmates read the book, and she'd feel both energized and an obligation to carry on.

This has all long been enmeshed, her pride and satisfaction in helping others (when she was diagnosed, and Jeanette and Greg went looking for resources, they found hardly anything, and almost exclusively about adults, so the family found itself at the forefront of advocacy for transgender youth) and the toll that resulting obligation takes on her.  Her parents probably should have stepped in at some point years ago and said "We've done our part, her mental health is fragile, and it's someone else's turn" but I understand it's not that simple.  Same with now, when it's even easier to say Jazz should step back from the cameras and finally live as "regular" a life as she now can -- yet there's the major complication that the law (especially in places like Florida) has taken leaps backward into bigotry, so she again feels both a calling (positive) and an obligation (negative) to put herself out there.

[princelina]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

  Same with now, when it's even easier to say Jazz should step back from the cameras and finally live as "regular" a life as she now can -- yet there's the major complication that the law (especially in places like Florida) has taken leaps backward into bigotry, so she again feels both a calling (positive) and an obligation (negative) to put herself out there.

If Jeanette was that worried about her mental health she'd say go to Harvard and have fun playing lacrosse.  Anyway, Jeanette can still be an advocate - she didn't need Jazz to do the speech she gave, she says it's her "passion" and she needs her own activities and interests anyway.  If political involvement/advocacy is her thing she should go do it.  (IMO her "passion" is being on tv for being a super mom with a super special child, but maybe I'm wrong 😉)

[BAForever]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

...... Same with now, when it's even easier to say Jazz should step back from the cameras and finally live as "regular" a life as she now can -- yet there's the major complication that the law (especially in places like Florida) has taken leaps backward into bigotry, so she again feels both a calling (positive) and an obligation (negative) to put herself out there.

Jazz has done her time advocating, she owes no one anything. Jeanette and Greg need to prioritize her mental and physical health over her advocacy. Jazz- finish college, start a career, be happy. If you want to advocate for trans youth, you can do that when you're older.

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, BAForever said:

Jazz has done her time advocating, she owes no one anything.

I know that.  I also understand why she feels like she does.

[BAForever]

13 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I know that.  I also understand why she feels like she does.

Agree Bastet. Sometimes I get so angry at her because of how relatively "easy" her transition has been. She has a supportive family group, enough money for medical needs and had medical expertise early so she did not go through male puberty. She can and has acted entitled at times. But I see her still advocating. Is it guilt? Famewhoreitis? Or are Jeanette/Sander egging her on? I wish she'd step back for a few years for her own happiness. 

[SilverLake0315]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:24 AM, princelina said:

I wish they would give an update on Noelle.

I don't remember the details, but a year or so ago I saw discussion on this topic. It wasn't positive.

I totally agree that Jeanette's reaction to the possibility of Jazz being asexual was awful. Good lord, woman. Would that really be the worst thing in the world? You don't seem to even WANT her to date, so why would that bother you? 

Edited February 21, 2023 by SilverLake0315

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On the topic of Jazz dating, she missed out on the casual dating people often do in high school.  She never learned how to date.  Her expectation that she should feel a real spark with someone comes from movies.  They see each other across a crowded room . . . their eyes lock . . . he tries to make his way to her  . . . he can't get through the crowd  . . .when he reaches the place she was, she's gone!  She would be smart to talk to her non-Sander siblings off camera about dating. 

Oh and Jazz, yes your parents do want to hear about your date.  They are in the bedroom with a camera crew.  

Jazz's non-trans friends looked so bored / annoyed during the pool chat. They were having fun, then it shifted to botox, breast enhancement, and laser hair removal.  Y'know, the things that everyone can relate to.  

Before Jeannette pontificates about asexuals, she might want to do some research.  Also, not wanting to kiss one guy on camera after one date is not something to be concerned about.  Finally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being asexual.  An estimated 1% of people are.  Asexuals have full lives.  Also, Jazz may well be demisexual.  She also may just ne more nervous since she lacks experience.  And many asexuals do have sexual feelings.  tl;dr: shut up, Jeannette! 

The photoshoot was another eyeroll moment.  Remember when we met transgender folks on this show of different ages, backgrounds, and experiences, some of whom were more into glam and many who were not?  Where did they go?  

For professional makeup, that was terrible.  The makeup did not match Jaclyn's skin tone. 

Jazz continues with her bad clothing choices.  What was with the dress she wore on her date?  She got her mom's fashion sense, which is none at all. And of course Jeanette puts fear into her head right before the date.  Griffen was kind to say the color looked nice on her.  That was the one positive.  Otherwise, it was schmatta. 

[gingerella]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:59 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Her expectation that she should feel a real spark with someone comes from movies.

This is spot on PPAL. Jazz has been so fixated on getting the perfect female genitalia and now that she has it, she doesn't know what to do with it because she hasn't learned any basic social skills. She spews these ridiculous like 'maybe I'm demisexual'...blah blah blah...Apparently demisexual is "...is a sexual orientation in which a person feels sexually attracted to someone only after they've developed a close/strong emotional bond with them". Isn't that just normal people who are attracted to someone as they get to know them? Isn't that most people who aren't into flings and casual sex? It's like she constantly throws out every term she can find online, but she has no real life experience on pretty much anything related to relationships. And when you combine that with someone who's sort of a narcissist and only wants to talk about themselves, well your dating pool just shrank to a thimble in real life, IMO, YMMV.

On 2/23/2023 at 10:59 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Jazz's non-trans friends looked so bored / annoyed during the pool chat. They were having fun, then it shifted to botox, breast enhancement, and laser hair removal.  Y'know, the things that everyone can relate to.  

God bless those girls for their patience and just being willing to show up, because it doesn't feel like Jazz keeps in touch with them unless she's filming. And her trans 'friends' are NOT the sort of people Jazz should be hanging with IMO. I am gobsmacked that Jaclyn is basically doing online sex work. It's sad and appalling to me, and its so far from what Jazz knows that I cant understand the connection at all at this point. OTOH, at least Jaclyn is moving forward and taking her life into her own hands, whereas Jazz just whines and opines as she sloths around her parents house once again.

And I cant even with Sander, who is such a succubus, it's just gross. They need to kick his ass out of the house already. Mr. Tik Tok Social Media Influencer Expert...my ass...